Looking for workers
By Bobbi Mlynar (Contact)
Originally published 07:31 a.m., February 7, 2008
Updated 12:18 p.m., February 7, 2008
National and regional companies are scrambling to offer jobs to Tyson workers displaced by the company’s decision to shut down its slaughter division and downsize its presence in Emporia. After announcing the closing on Jan. 25, Tyson followed up Wednesday with a second announcement that up to 300 additional jobs would be eliminated.
Employment advertisements have burgeoned since Tyson announced the shutdown, and several of the companies — Seaboard Foods, Creekstone Farms, National Beef, and Cargill among them — have sent representatives to Emporia to hold mini job fairs to entice the laid-off workers to consider working for them.
In addition to the companies that produce beef, pork, and chicken for human consumption, advertisements have offered jobs in other food-related industries, including those that manufacture pet food, salads, potato products, and burritos. Beyond the food industry, there are job openings for everything from welding in Neodesha to attending slot machines or waiting tables in a northeast Kansas casino.
Jay Kirkman III, human resources manager for Seaboard, said that while the companies sympathize with the Tyson workers for the job-loss trauma they are enduring, the upheaval nevertheless is an opportunity for both the workers and for the companies that need to hire them.
“There’s a tremendous shortage of meat processing workers in America, across the country,” Kirkman said. “It’s a dwindling workforce. Five years ago, there was a surplus of workers. Ask me where they went, I don’t know. But now we have a deficit, not a surplus.”
Kirkman is hoping that wages and benefits, job security and the state-of-the-art plant at Guymon will lure the Tyson workers to switch from beef to pork production.
Seaboard is a self-sufficient company that grows and processes its own grains to feed at its company-owned pig farms. The finished hogs, at about 300 pounds, are loaded onto company trucks and shipped to be processed at Seaboard plants. Its traditional and specialty products are sold nationally and through chains such as Wal-Mart, Kirkman said.
The company, with headquarters in Shawnee Mission, has operations in Montana, Utah, Colorado, Oklahoma, Kansas and Missouri.
Kirkman is hoping that Tyson workers will prefer slaughtering and processing hogs that, at far-lower finished weights, require less strenuous labor in a “more favorable work environment.” Bringing in Tyson workers from Emporia would help Seaboard fulfill its strategic business plan of increasing capacity in Guymon.
Seaboard, like other companies, is offering incentives to make themselves attractive in the competition for Tyson’s displaced workers. Some already have signed with Seaboard, Kirkman said, although most now are weighing options and necessities, like selling homes, before they make a decision.
“If they’re not ready to join Seaboard Foods, we’ll wait for them,” he said.
Tyson, too, is offering jobs to employees laid off in the second round of downsizing announced Wednesday afternoon at the local plant.
The company said that between 200 and 300 more jobs will be eliminated. Tyson announced Jan. 25 that it would close its slaughter operation here completely and would eliminate the second shift processing jobs, primarily because of a lack of finished cattle in the area.
That change was expected to cause the loss of 1,500 of the approximately 2,400 jobs that had been at the plant. Up to one-third of the remaining 900 jobs could be eliminated as a result of the latest announcement.
Tyson released what it termed a transition schedule in a news release Wednesday.
The final shift of beef slaughter operations here will be Feb. 13, and the remaining processing shift will end Feb. 15. The new value-added beef production at the plant will begin Feb. 20.
“The restructured operations, which will employ between 600 and 700 people, will involve cold storage and shipping, specialty beef processing and ground beef processing,” the news release stated.
Jim Lochner, senior group vice president of Tyson Fresh Meats, said that the senior management team’s initial decision was based on what was known then.
“Since the announcement, we’ve been able, with the assistance of the Emporia management team, to do a more extensive study of future production options and now have a better estimate of our staffing needs,” Lochner was quoted as saying in the news release.
The remaining workers will be those who have specific skills needed in the cold storage and shipping, specialty beef processing and ground beef processing jobs that remain. The company will begin now to notify those workers, who will come from the plant’s previous first and second shift operations. Notifications should be complete within a week, the news release said.
“We’re looking for people with certain skills that will be needed for this restructured operation,” Tyson Foods spokesman Gary Mickelson said in a telephone interview Wednesday afternoon.
All of the workers who are being displaced in the closings and layoffs will be offered jobs at other Tyson operations, he said.
Incentives will be offered to workers who go to certain designated cities within the Tyson operation, and jobs also may be open at other plants not designated as qualifying for financial incentives.
Mickelson said that workers also are being offered jobs in Tyson poultry plants in Noel, Mo., and Robards, Ky.
“Those get incentives … for the named places,” Mickelson said.
Openings are adequate to accommodate Emporia’s displaced workers.
“If you look at the company as a whole, do we have sufficient openings to transfer the workers? Yes,” Mickelson said.
Tyson has been in touch with local and state officials throughout the downsizing that is taking place, he said.
“We’ve been making an effort to maintain lines of communications with both local and state officials to let them know what changes we’re making and to answer their questions,” he said.
The company on Wednesday morning sent an announcement to Mayor Julie Johnson and City Manager Matt Zimmerman, in addition to Armand Corpolongo, director of the Kansas Department of Commerce. A copy of the letter also was faxed to Gov. Kathleen Sebelius.
The letter notified those involved that Tyson was following the Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification Act of 1988, in providing 60 days’ notice to “team members, their representatives, and certain governmental units and government officials of a plant closing or, in this circumstance, a mass layoff.”
The estimated numbers of Tyson workers affected, by position, are: management, 10; management support, 40; hourly workers, 250.
Affected workers will be paid for 60 days after the announcement.
The last day of employment for the latest workers affected is Monday, April 7.
The letter, signed by Emporia Plant Manager Mike Fiehler, said that current workers in the positions to be eliminated “will be notified personally of their job elimination and any bumping rights they may have based on their seniority.”
Workers affected in the January closing and layoffs did not have “bumping” rights.
Mickelson said that employees in some management and management-support positions already have been notified whether or not they will retain their jobs; others should know by the end of the week.
Needs for maintenance crews have yet to be determined.
Who’s in town?
Representatives of these companies have scheduled visits.
• Creekstone Farms of Arkansas City, Candlewood Suites, 10 a.m. to 6 p.m. Friday.
• Farmland Foods, based in Kansas City, Mo., will be at the Best Western Hospitality House on Monday from 9 a.m. to 7 p.m.
• Seaboard Foods of Guymon, Okla., Friday, Guest House Inn. Seaboard for two weeks will be at other locations, including the Emporia Workforce Center. Times will be announced.
• National Beef of Liberal, 9:30 a.m. to 5 p.m. Friday, Monday, and Friday, Feb. 15.
Comments
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Posted by hawks422 (anonymous) on February 7, 2008 at 9:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If I were an employee at that worthless company, I would be preparing to not have a job within the next 6 months. Everyhting TYSON has said turns out to be worse than what they led on. They keep cutting and cutting...how cost effective can it be to ship nasty fat trimmings and who knows what else for the hamburger to the emporia faciity, to make hamburger, it's all a smoke screen for whats coming down the road. If any of you out there are upset, you should boycott anything with TYSON on it. Hit them in the wallet like the hit Emporians in the wallet. City Manager, Commissoners, etc... need to squeeze that company for every nickle they can and tell them to get out & start looking for another company that can settle in at that site. Good luck Emporians!
Posted by truelovecharlie (anonymous) on February 7, 2008 at 9:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)
What an idiotic comment. The city manager and county commisioners cannot squeeze anything and have no power over finding someone else for that plant. Tyson owns it and it is completely Tyson's chose to leave the plant in mothballs until such time as it has to be leveled. As for boycotting anything with Tyson on it; you can boycott the brand all you want but they also produce many foods under other labels. The anger at the power in Emporia are missplaced and should be on the citizens of Emporia. I went to school with all those in power now and their parents were in power when we were in school. Emporia is the same as any other community; the elite run things and the citizens allow it. The only way to change things is for the common man/woman to get mad enough to revolt and take charge themselves. The Longbine's, the Agler's and the rest are only where they are due to their birth of priviledge. Had they been born common folk, they would be struggling just like the common folk.
Posted by hawks422 (anonymous) on February 7, 2008 at 10 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Cry me a river truelovecharlie if your so upset about who's in charge at the city why don't you get out of town right along with TYSON. City officals have many options when it comes to non-support of a company that scre$$$ everyone over. So who's the idiot...your so upset because you feel your getting the shaft from the Longbine's & Agler's which have nothing to do with TYSON leaving this town that you don't see a clear picture. It's funny that people like you complain about city officials but your name is never on a ballot for anything! Oh I forgot you hide behind the struggling common folk card, get of your as$ and run for a commissoners seat!!!
Posted by morethenenough (anonymous) on February 7, 2008 at 10:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)
@hawks422
not only do YOU attack but YOUR hateful while doing it.....
YOU ought to walk your talk.....its people with big mouths that are sitting on their spreading rears spouting hate and negative comments that dont have a clue whats on the shoulders of officials.....or management of a company.
OUR little town Boycotting TYSON would not dent their business....considering they are world wide....
the Mentality of AN eye FOR an EYE only ends up with both eyes black and blue. AS I have stated before....there are other issues at hand and thats encouraging those who need help and those who are left DOING their JOBS....
Posted by truelovecharlie (anonymous) on February 7, 2008 at 10:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)
@hawks---for your information, I left Emporia years ago as I knew the only jobs there were factory.You obviously know nothing of the business world or you would know that the powers in Emporia have no power to force Tyson to do anything. I am not upset nor getting a screwing from anyone in Emporia; in fact, I do all I can to avoid Emporia when my travels take me that direction. I never said the power's that be had anything to do with Tyson leaving town, my only comments were about the pickiness of the powers that have prevented economic growth in your city over many years. I was merely pointing out that the people running Emporia when I was growing up were the parents of the people running it now and these same people will have their children running the city in the future; unless the hard working common people get mad enough to DO something to change it. I still have family in Emporia and the surrounding area and good friends with major investments in Emporia. I am just pointing out some reasons why Emporia is stagnant and many people have left the community over the years.
Posted by tillie (anonymous) on February 7, 2008 at 11:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Why isn't the woman in the picture wearing a MASK??? Does cooking the meat destroy tuberculosis germs? Do they make no one wear a mask that handles the meat??? ICK!!!
Posted by hawks422 (anonymous) on February 7, 2008 at 11:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)
@ truelovecharlie, Economically speaking the City has brought in several corporations Menu, Lenze, Norfolk, Catepillar, etc. however with a little bad luck and an economic downturn the city has suffered. So don't tell me how picky leaders have been... especially when they have tried to diversify the emporia economy. By the way city leaders do have options when it comes to TYSON, so don't sit there and tell me about the business world maybe you should take a course in city government. If your so glad you left emporia and you try to avoid it all opporutnity then why don't you avoid commenting on issues that don't effect your pathetic life.
Posted by truelovecharlie (anonymous) on February 7, 2008 at 11:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)
@hawk422---This will be my last direct comment to you. What is affecting Emporia is affecting all of the economy. That is my main point. Emporia isn't special and not the only community suffering. It is the economy as a whole. Just last week a manufacted home plant closed in a small community of around 3000. Greed and wanting everything and wanting it the easy way is what has driven our economy into the ground. Everyone seems to want more pay and better benefits for less effort and that is what opened the door for all the imigrants to come to America and have all those jobs. If Americans were willing to do the work, the imigrants wouldn't have the oportunity to take those jobs. They are not taking any jobs from Americans, they are doing the jobs Americans are unwilling to do themselves. More jobs are outsourced overseas because the corporations can get more work done cheeper. America has been a very wealthy society and has allowed their greed and laziness to open these oportunities for others. As for you suggesting me get an education, I have a college degree, which I graduated with a 3.77 and have been in maagement most all my adult life, thank you.
Posted by wookdog13 (anonymous) on February 7, 2008 at 11:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Hang in there Charlie. Love what you say and agree. It is the narrow minded that can only see to the end of their nose. Furthere more, to hawks Emporia is not a city, nor has it been run like a city. I have been here for years and it has always been known by how much money you have and what your name is.
What has diversified in this town? I have seen very little good in the last seven to ten years. You (hawk) apparently are another one who hides your head in the sand. So Sad!
I believe if there were more people with the money to be able to run against the leaders things would change for the better.
Look at the fact that we do not even qualify for a state run casino, which would help the economy tremendusously. Again, what does this say about this town.
Emporia can not even get other business such as Target, Kmart, etc to come. Also there is not one big company here that has their CEOs living here(I wonder why?)
Posted by morethenenough (anonymous) on February 7, 2008 at 12:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
truelovecharlie once again IS RIGHT on.......
ITS everywhere....... we Americans are a spoiled bunch of people who have had abundancy of opportunity and blessings which are and have been turning into greed and hard hearts which leads to heartache, and a downhill economy. People shouting hateful gestures and pointing fingers is evidence of a way of life that is reaping what it has sown
WHEN it hits home and more and more can relate its not just a affecting the few anymore.....
Posted by truelovecharlie (anonymous) on February 7, 2008 at 12:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Thank you workdog and morethenenough. If hawk422 only knew....BECAUSE I left Emporia and was willing to work VERY hard, I am now 45 years old and have been retired for almost a year. I am in perfectly good health and able to continue working IF I wanted to; however, I figure since I can manage, I will allow others to have the employment. I made that same decision when I volunteered for a lay-off from Wolf Creek many years ago. I figured I was a single guy and able to forge my own way so let me take the hit and keep someone that had family responsibilities. My 4 children are raised and I only have myself and my wife to be responsible for now, so I could afford to leave the work-force and just cruise. If I were greedy and wanted way more home than I needed and a new vehicle every year or so, I would have to stay working and slaving away chasing that almighty dollar. How many people do you know that work themselves silly so they can have anything and everything and then they die and can't take it with them? GREED!!!!!
Posted by hawks422 (anonymous) on February 7, 2008 at 12:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
3.77 in what basket weaving?? Duh.. The correct spelling for cheeper is cheaper and management is not spelled maagement you must be a terrible manager...
@wookdog get a clue Emporia meets the definition of City check your Webster...and for your information almost every community is about.. not what you know, it's who you know...Thats just a fact of life, get over it!!! So quit whining and kissing a$$ and do something to becoming a leader instead of being a follower that complains about leaders.
Posted by Casey (anonymous) on February 7, 2008 at 12:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Give out positive you get back positive..I am sure the leaders decide to run for leadership positions because of the role model of their parents not by money or status quo.You make your own choices in life to lead or follow and if you chose to follow then why are you complaining about how the leader leads you ?
Casey
Posted by truelovecharlie (anonymous) on February 7, 2008 at 12:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I would have to disagree with you Casey, many of those in power are strictly there for the POWER. It strokes their egos. As for my abilities as a manager; every business I have owned and managed, my employees were very devoted as they knew I would go to the wall for them. The businesses that thrive the best are those in which the management treats the employee as their most valued asset; next to the customer. As for my spelling----every post on here has some spelling and grammar errors, I never claimed to be perfect.
Posted by jackslap (anonymous) on February 7, 2008 at 12:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Maybe the commissioners are too busy worrying whether or not these workers are going to stop to buy a new car or not before they head out of town!!
Posted by Casey (anonymous) on February 7, 2008 at 12:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
truelovecharlie..That drive that wanted POWER had to come from some where .Stroking ones ego is not a bad thing .I am sure you treat every one as equal humans but honestly equality starts with ones self .
Casey
Posted by 09071976 (anonymous) on February 7, 2008 at 1:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I would like to know if our City Manager is as actively seeking employers to move to Emporia as the employers are seeking Emporians to move their jobs. For the past two weeks the Help Wanted section has grown like never before in the Gazette. Are our leaders busy with contacting large companies to come here or are they just pushing around dollars we don't have in a budget that will never be enforced anyway?
Have they contacted the larger surrounding cities to see if maybe we may be able to help with their larger projects? Topeka had considered a minor league baseball team for a while. If a stadium were built on the Emporia side of Topeka, we would surely see some positive growth. We need to look to our big brothers (KC, Topeka and Wichita) for help. Make it appealing to grow this way. A fantasy-novel idea would be a monorail system between Emporia and one of those places, work in the city, live in a small town. All possible with a 35 minute train ride. After all, the small town feel is what people want. Examples are all over Wichita's housing developments.
Meaningless ramblings but let us try to focus on positive brainstorming rather than picking at each other and pointing fingers.
"Live together or die alone."
Posted by wookdog13 (anonymous) on February 7, 2008 at 1:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Charlie, good for you. Hawks isn"t too educated either because he/she capitilizes "city".
Hawk, you are right on the it is who you know. Emporia has always been like that! You are not telling us anything that we did not already know! DAH
Best believe I would run for city government office if I had the money and time. A lot agree with charlie and myself. I will admit, that I also like power. It is a state of mind that some people take to new heights. As you can tell, not showing ones face or true idenity allows for one to " assume" their power.Also most people can figure out a typing error or spelling. Do not let that bother you, because it is the honesty that hurts not the spelling. Only God can make something perfect.
Posted by bjohn (anonymous) on February 7, 2008 at 1:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
In this economy, the diplaced workers would be foolish not to take a new job. Yes, they have to move. Yes, that is sad. But it is better to have a job than not have one. Bills and taxes have to be paid and the collectors of that money do not care if you are making $6.50 an hour or $14.00 an hour (cue some overly educated poster to correct me about how taxes work).
I say to the displaced workers "Take the jobs and start over somewhere else." I think it is the best thing they can do now. Going on unemployment would be a terrible choice. They will be no more jobs in Emporia when that runs out and the jobs that are available now will be gone. Take the jobs offered and make a new life for yourself and your family.
Posted by eddison2 (anonymous) on February 7, 2008 at 1:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
@truelovecharlie - hawks is only upset because he is lead sanitation handler for the city... that is why he is so defensive, he enjoys the "sh1t" these city leaders have left around...
I for one think your right on in many of your posts, you obviously are educated and understand how economics and a capitalistic society operates.
Posted by eddison2 (anonymous) on February 7, 2008 at 1:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
@bjohn - Nope your absolutely right everyone has to pay taxes and their bills... .now if you had gone into a discussion on the tax burden of a 6.50 or 14.00 an hour job then there would be lots more to discuss.. =-)
Posted by truelovecharlie (anonymous) on February 7, 2008 at 3:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
@eddison---EXACTLY! That is why America should join forces for the flat sales tax and do away with income tax in it's entirety. A flat sales tax is the only fair way to evenly distribute the tax burden. The more you make, the more you spend. The more you spend the more tax burden you carry. This would be very difficult as look at all the IRS workers that would be without a job. All of our governments are too big. Why do we pay people to make decisions that have to spends thousands of dollars always studying things to death and then make the wrong choiceds anyway.
Posted by 09071976 (anonymous) on February 7, 2008 at 3:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
@truelove
Love the consumption tax plan! I've studied and rolled the idea over and over and have yet to find fault. Those that can afford the big ticket luxury items will be paying the tax on them, those who can't will still get taxed but only on what they consume. It's a no-brainer.
There would, however, need to be a system of checks to ensure that the national rate did not get out of control by the greedy hands in Washington.
There would also be no of this "rebate" business.
Posted by truelovecharlie (anonymous) on February 7, 2008 at 3:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Gov. Huckabee is also a proponent of doing away with the IRS. I have pushed for this type of tax system most of my life. Under this system, those that have will spend and they will then think twice before backing some of the pork-barrel spending habits of the governments---national, state and even the local governent spends way too much money on idiotic projects.
Posted by emporialifer (anonymous) on February 7, 2008 at 4:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Since we are throwing out ideas for ways to fix the gov't - I have an idea for the Legal branch. How about we start assessing a fee to all lawyers who lose their case? That way lawyers will hopefully think twice (since it would be affecting their pocketbook) before concocting some ridiculous lawsuit that wastes people's time and money (i.e. the infamous McDonald's coffee that was too hot). I'm sorry, but lack of common sense or intelligence should NOT be grounds for a multi-million dollar lawsuit. Granted, I don't know how that would work as far as the District Attorney pressing charges and losing, etc., but I hear about so many frivolous lawsuits these days that perhaps we could finally get those under control and get our Judicial system back to focusing on real issues/crimes, etc. Food for thought.
Posted by truelovecharlie (anonymous) on February 7, 2008 at 4:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I have long thought that anyone charged with an alleged crime and then found not guilty should have recourse; unfortunately, the system is not set up for that. That is why there is no such thing as innocent until proven guilty. Lyon County needs all this activity to justify the eyesore of a courthouse they wasted money on.
Posted by eddison2 (anonymous) on February 7, 2008 at 9:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
@ truelovecharlie... I completely agree with you in the regard of the flat tax .... along with that we could abolish the IRS and directly fund the government for programs that are NECESSARY and not the million different entitlement programs that are sinking this ship.. You can only go so long spending money the way the US government does, have you looked around lately? Who has been bailing us out China, Japan, the UAE, etc etc if this continues this country will no longer be ours and that will surely be a sad day.
Posted by olddog (anonymous) on February 7, 2008 at 9:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
isabella .....GOTO TYSON CORPORATE WEB SITE
CLICK ON PRESS ROOM GO TO BOTTOM OF THR PAGE WHEREIS SAYS COMMENTS AND HAVE A BLAST LIKE I DID. maybe with enough bad press they will find a heart i dought it but it cant hurt and i feel better for doing it
Great idea, I have spread that link onto others and several I know others have submitted their opinions. Might as well complain to the main horse instead of on a blog where corporate HAS to sift through their comments.
Posted by admireed (anonymous) on February 7, 2008 at 11:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Representatives and senator folks will never pass a flat tax. They enjoy their power to give this and that to interest groups ... their special break(s). And even if we had a flat tax, these big spenders would find a continuing need to jack up the percentage of the take for their need to shower extra $$$ on this or that program.
Let them serve for $5000 per year, maximum 5 years, so they will not make it a life long job of saving us from ourselves while they get rich on their perks!
Posted by JohnDoe (anonymous) on February 8, 2008 at 12:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Let's get something straight. The word "you're" (you-are) is not the same as the word "your." Far from it in fact. "Your" is the possessive form of "you." Do we even need to go into the appropriate times to capitalize words? OR over-using THE capslock KEY TO somehow further PROVE a point?
Posted by eddison2 (anonymous) on February 8, 2008 at 12:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)
@JohnDoe - Wow, you're a super star! A + for you!
Posted by eddison2 (anonymous) on February 8, 2008 at 12:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)
@JohnDoe - I mean that with lots of love :) FYI.
Posted by CAFEmporia (anonymous) on February 8, 2008 at 3:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The discussion about taxation is of interest and I believe everyone has contributed intelligently to it. I'd like to toss in a couple of my own bits, if I may.
One problem with doing away with income taxes and relying only upon sales taxes is that it is unreliable and often unfair to those making less. It depends upon how it is structured. When people are feeling optimistic, they spend more, but when they are not optimistic, they spend a lot less, too, and that can spiral as government services are cut and people must rely more upon local government or private enterprise. It appears we may see a good example of that this year.
The wealthy can also avoid a steep sales tax by purchasing some things out of country. Yachts bought and registered in Monaco have little sales tax. It is also possible to create trust funds which might avoid such taxes, too. I'm not an expert on such things, but I feel sure that is true to some extent now and laws written in a sales tax only environment will most certainly create such loopholes.
The best way, I believe, is a mixture of tax types including a strongly progressive income tax (including dividends and interests income), a national sales tax in addition to state and local sales taxes, and property taxes, too. When the economy varies, one of the other would most probably pick up some of the slack from lower collections elsewhere.
Posted by fromemporia (anonymous) on February 8, 2008 at 8:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I've got a great idea. Stop spending all your time posting comments on a message board for Emporia Gazette and go out into the community and do something to change the way things are done. Idiots.
Posted by alfalfa (anonymous) on February 8, 2008 at 8:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Nice comment fromemporia. The ideas in this thread are all very intelligent and worth sharing. Good forums are a way for like minded people to share ideas,and others to respond. It is a good way to start changing things, simply to find out others agree with you. Takes about a minute or two at most to post an idea. Might look in the mirror to see who the idiot is. Truelovecharlie, you are right on the mark,and I enjoy reading your posts(everyone else on this thread as well, for the most part).
Posted by olddog (anonymous) on February 8, 2008 at 8:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)
WELL JOHN DOE I WILL USE CAPS LOCK WHENEVER I FEEL THE URGE. AND BY THE WAY, HUUKEDONPHONIX WURKED4MI. ARE WE ALL HERE FOR A GRAMMAR CHECK? GET A LIFE DUDE!
Posted by create (anonymous) on February 8, 2008 at 9:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm with you, Alfalfa. A lively exchange of views and opinions on forums like this is often what it takes "...to change the way things are done" in communities all over the country. We are lucky to have this forum. During the time of the American Revolutionary period, many of those who participated in seeking change were called idiots too. I'd say we're in good company.
Posted by fromemporia (anonymous) on February 8, 2008 at 11:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Oh my God, I understand now, you have completely changed my mind, and my way of life. The only people that read these are completely useless people like you alfalfa. You and your " like minded friends" don't change crap.
Posted by 09071976 (anonymous) on February 8, 2008 at 3:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
@fromemporia~ For someone who places no value on the importance of these boards and the "idiots" that post on them, you sure seem to be interested in reading and rebutting on them.
Why don't you follow along and post your suggestions for going "out into the community and do something to change the way things are done"
The majority of us here are very open-minded and willing to change things. Some have even offered their ideas for vehicles of change. Please shower us with your examples, ideas and positivity. Otherwise, go find another website to play your game; don't waste our time.
Posted by alfalfa (anonymous) on February 8, 2008 at 7:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Generally I hate to exchange personal jibes fromemporia, but for being useless, I am willing to bet I can buy and sell you three or four times over. If you don't like this forum, stay off of it. Calling people idiots who want to post on it shows a tremendous lack of class. I am more than willing to respect about any opinion anyone else has, other than ones like yours. By the way, tell us a little about the wonderful things you accomplish for the community when not on the forum with all of the "idiots". I am sure once we learn of your exploits we may well want to bow down to your greatness.
Posted by alfalfa (anonymous) on February 8, 2008 at 7:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Back to the issue at hand, I like the idea of a consumption tax, but agree with admireed that the chances of it passing are not great. What would help as much as anything is for government to think only in terms of the function of buildings etc. rather than trying to make a statement whenever they build or buy something. In otherwords, act like they are broke(which they are) rather than like they have money to burn. That needs to be implemented no matter what taxplan we have.
Also, people need to pay as much attention to local elections as they do national ones. City councils, county officials and school boards impact our day to day lives and our taxes just as much or more as the President, and we do have more leverage over who fills those offices.
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