Posted by zeepmonk (anonymous) on January 31, 2008 at 2:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

All packers - not just Tyson have been losing $40 - $50 per head for the last 6 months or more. Emporia slaughtered almost 4000 head a day. The math is easy. Either live cattle prices have to come down or the price we pay at the store needs to rise. The loss of export markets after BSE a couple years back made profits very challenging for all packers.

Posted by madpoet (anonymous) on January 31, 2008 at 3:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Beef is pricey enough as it is. We rarely get beef anymore. We can buy ground turkey for a fraction of the price of lean ground beef. It's a treat for my family to eat beef.

Posted by roger (anonymous) on January 31, 2008 at 7:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

How do you propose the live cattle market could come down? It's pretty tough to make a profit in the cattle business as it is. I don't understand how the beef packers could be loosing money. They don't pay their workers very well. The price of live cattle is under a dollar a pound. The price of the meat in the store is high enough that it is hard for working people to afford. They use everything on the cow. Maybe they are paying their upper management too much. That usually falls under labor costs.

Posted by eddison2 (anonymous) on January 31, 2008 at 7:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I think part of the problem is these long term negotiated contracts that are huge... Super markets, Walmart, The US Goverment, School districts etc are all locked in at X amount per pound.. Then take that and add in the increase of fuel prices, feed prices, transportation prices... and you have an epidemic problem of losing money... This is just an observation but I think it plays into the equation.

Posted by isabella (anonymous) on January 31, 2008 at 8:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The school system and stores are locked in at a set price but the problem is not that the problem is that companies like tyson get so big that they have no idea what to do with it.If they would cut the salery of the ceo and vip and stop making million dollar comercals that nobody watches that right there would cut cost by a few million a month.

Posted by eddison2 (anonymous) on January 31, 2008 at 9:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yeah a 21 million dollar year is quite excessive for a CEO.. but that hardly helps when your losing multiple millions in a week.. I agree other cut backs could be examined now the question is will they?

Posted by isabella (anonymous) on January 31, 2008 at 9:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

No they to use to having the best of the best who really needs that much money anyway. The shortage of beef may or may not be the real reason that they are closing the plant but if there is a shortage whose falt is it not the ranchers a cow can only have so many calf in a year if they has stoped increasing the chain speed every year and stop shipping the beef to other countrys and take care of the people in america they would not be in this situation.Tyson has deversified to much with beef pork and chicken down sizeing is fine but not at the expence of the loyal team members that have sacrificed every thing so that they can have the best of the best at the cost of there health bad sholders bad backs numb hands they need to remember who made them the money that they are wasting and they need to tell the truth about why they are really doing this people can handly the truth better then a load of bull that they are trying to feed us now.If thay are using it as a tax writeoff then just say so.

Posted by truelovecharlie (anonymous) on February 1, 2008 at 8:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

As someone who has worked various different entities within the cattle and grain industry, maybe I can explain this situation in layman terms. The price of fuel, the price of grain to feed the cattle and now the cattlemen are competing with the ethenol plants for grain are driving and will continue to drive all prices up. Fuel, meat, produce, clothing.....everything! We have enjoyed the good life for many years now and it is going to be hard on anyone that is overloaded in debt. It is the norm to live paycheck to paycheck in this society. People that are working multiple jobs to pay for those $40,000 vehicles and the $150,000+ houses will have a very hard time surviving with the direction our economy is heading. This is the case all across this country. It's easy to blame our politicians and the war, but we have to accept the fact that WE dictate who our politicians are and what they vote for and/or against. How many times have you seen an entity spout off that this building or that building would take $200,000-$300,000 to repair so they spend millions building new instead. The money we make ends up being taxed about 50% or more, by the time we pay income tax on what we make, sales tax on what we spend and personal property tax on things we've bought. Any time our government runs short on money they just come to us and TELL us we have to pay more. Wouldn't it be nice if we could go to our employer and MAKE then pay us more everytime we run short on our own budgets? The citizens of this country need to band together and demand our elected live within their budgets. I have been a proponent for a flat sales tax for years. Do away with income and personal property taxes. Have a flat sales tax! This is the only way for taxes to be fair across the board. The more you make, the more you spend. The more you spend the more you pay your fair share of the tax burden. There is way too much waste spending in this country, from the hand-outs because someone is too lazy to support themselves to the pork-barrel spending. The only way to correct it is to put our foot down collectively as a country and tell those in power ENOUGH! Most of us didn't live through the last great depression; unfortunately, we will be living through the one coming. WAKE UP AMERICA1 You can either sit back and gripe about it or you can stand up and join forces to demand CHANGE!

Posted by morethenenough (anonymous) on February 1, 2008 at 8:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

@truelovecharlie

AMEN!

Posted by alfalfa (anonymous) on February 1, 2008 at 8:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Truelovecharlie, your comments are right on the mark. I believe the Lyon County Imperial Palace(aka the courthouse) is a fine example of what you are talking about. IF it had to be built, it could have been built to serve its purpose for less money.

This whole thing about not enough cattle. There aren't enough cattle because 7 or 8 years ago, packers weren't paying enough for fat cattle to cover cattlemens costs. Some drouths in key cow areas coupled with low cattle prices caused the US cowherd to shrink. We got higher prices, but with higher feed costs and a few more drouths cowmen have still been unable to or reluctant to expand. We have to make a profit too. I have a really tough time feeling sorry for Tyson. They try to dominate the market in all meats, pay out huge bonuses, and then cry hard times. There is no one person in this entire nation worth a multimillion dollar bonus ever. And there is no good reason for any executive to make over 10 or 15 times what the ordinary line worker makes, EVER. I read years ago that all of the CEOs of the Japanese car companies together didn't make in a year what the head of GM made, any wonder the US car industry has been in trouble for years??

Posted by momus (anonymous) on February 1, 2008 at 8:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I agree that the price of grain and fuel are inputs that contribute to the ever increasing costs associated with the beef industry. However, I think that there are other disturbing trends that also are significant contributing factors. One trend in particular, the ever increasing size of singular agricultural operations, leads to a less time responsive agricultural market. With smaller producers vanishing at an astonishing rate, agricultural markets productivity (supply) simply cannot adjust rapidly enough to validate significant changes in demand markets. At one time in our Ag history, it was not uncommon to have a significant population of small producers that would jump into and out of different commodities based on market conditions. The increasing concentration within agricultural commodities industries, when coupled with sprawling residential and metroplexes (which drive up the price of land while simultaneously destroying its agricultural production capacity) simply has eroded the U.S. markets ability to effectively respond quickly to severe changes in the price requirements of certain goods. Similar to our current situation within Emporia, we are seeing the need for more diversity within our agricultural community, including a renewed emphasis on the small family farm. As long as larger corporate farms have their fixed costs met, they resist changing their production, market mix or business models. Encouraging the continuation and expansion of the family farm would effectively alleviate some market pressure, which, in turn, could stabilize certain inputs pricing schedules.

Posted by truelovecharlie (anonymous) on February 1, 2008 at 9:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The problems are many and wide spread. How about our government paying people to NOT farm? How many of you know that our welfare system will pay up to $3,000 and give it to someone on welfare under the welfare to work program? All they have to do is find a job and keep it 6 months then SRS will buy them a vehicle, then they can quit their job and keep the car. Look at all the tax dollars sunk into historical projects. The lottery and the proposed casinos are driven mostly by those that can least afford to gamble the money. Originally the lottery was suppose to fund schools and prisons, look at all the money the lottery generates and how they spend those dollars. We are in the shape we are in due to years and years of waste. Every time you turn around someone somewhere is raising taxes on something; sales tax, property taxes, cigarette taxes, fuel taxes... so they can continue to waste it away.

Posted by alfalfa (anonymous) on February 1, 2008 at 9:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

momus: Your comments are pretty accurate as well. This thank goodness is turning into one of the most intelligent threads on this whole Tyson fiasco.

No matter what anyone tells me, diversified farms were the best way to go. It is unrealistic to think we can go back to the days of a farm on every 160 acres, but the forced specialization of farms hasn't been good for anyone. The most efficient farm in terms of utilizing resources for our area, in my opinion, is a livestock farm that grows most of its feed. In an ideal situation, that stock could be fed to slaughter weight on homegrown feeds. Companies like Tyson have pretty much wrecked that, look what corporate influence has done to hogs, chickens, and dairy. I suppose beef must be next. Government regulations on small local lockers has made many of them go out of business, further hindering the ability of farmers to market meat directly to the consumer and bypassing the likes of Tyson altogether. The best thing that could happen to our food chain and our farmers is more local lockers, not less. Another problem in direct marketing now is many consumers don't have the money to buy a half a beef at a time. I want to throw a question out to everyone here, what can we do at the local level to turn things around? We can't do much at a state or federal level, but surely at a local level we can. I am talking about everything being on the table, the crime rate, unemployment, government waste. The real bottom line in all of this is we do still live in a democracy, one with a pathetic voting rate. We have the right to vote, yet many don't, especially in local elections where your vote counts the most. We let single issues cloud the big picture and get the wrong people into office. As much as I hate to say this, we get what we deserve from our government, not each individual, there are people who are very responsible when it comes to voting and civic duty, but as a whole county, state and nation, we get what we deserve.

Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on February 1, 2008 at 11:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I can't speak intelligently about the farm economy, only to say as others have said - diversity is the key.

As for the city of Emporia, the need for diversification is even more desperate. In all the fallout over Tyson I'm concerned that our city leaders still don't get it. They talk about diversification and then go out trolling for business by telling everyone that we now have a labor base. While we do now have a sizeable number of unemployed workers, most don't have the skills necessary to be succesful in the new economy. The new, small nimble compaines that are succeeding are looking for skills and they're willing to pay top dollar for those skills. Our problem as a city is how to get our current labor pool up to speed on these skills. It won't be enough for us to say that we have people available; we are going to need to retool and reducate our workforce. I don't know how this can be done quickly. If anyone has any ideas on how this could be done, please chime in.

Posted by momus (anonymous) on February 1, 2008 at 12:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Diversification takes time. That's the underlying problem with our current development strategy: we go for the home run, lack patience and look for magic bullet strategies.

If we want to encourage diversification, we need to encourage entrepreneurship. We need to incubate identified business types in technology, biotechnology, batch manufacturing, art/entertainment, services that can draw customers from surrounding areas, retail and restaurants. We also need to encourage the retention and expansion of our current industries that have strong local ties.

To achieve this will require training partners (FHTC & ESU), grants & loan pools (SBC, Main Street, State & Federal), tax rebates for property owners of incubator buildings (city/county), operational funding (state & federal government) and infrastructure assistance (all of the above). Slow, sustainable growth may not be as sexy as a proposed west side development, but I think we just learned the hard way that a diversified economy with strong local ties works to everyone's advantage. Those are some of my ideas, but I think this thread has demonstrated the intellectual capital available to the city... What are some of your ideas?

Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on February 1, 2008 at 1:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Momus

Those are some of the same things I've thought of - educational opporuntiy grants, particularly (Though not exclusively) for minorities, tax rebates/use of a hybrid of the old urban homestead act to encourage people to rehab old homes, utilizing small contractors in town to supply the labor and materials. I also see this as an opportunity for churches who have plenty of skilled people to provide in-house training in technical disciplines, language, etc. Also, if we could get the ministerial alliance to bridge their current gaps there could be the potential of churches taking on city projects (i.e. - the restoration of Petr Pan Park), again providing the capital and paying the labor to get the jobs doe. I also think it would be good for the university and FHTC to consider a joint venture, devloping a bio-tech/bio-science campus that would do research/development and use their graduating students as a base for the labor pool.

Any more ideas? I think some won't fly, but there are some that will.

Posted by create (anonymous) on February 1, 2008 at 2:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"The best thing that could happen to our food chain and our farmers is more local lockers, not less." Amen, Alfalfa !! While the prices are a little higher, I like going to the Olpe Locker for beef. The taste of beef there can't compare with tasteless supermarket stuff. Perhaps if more people would shop there, prices would come down a little.

Also, I spoke to a small local contractor this morning who mentioned that he is already getting calls from landlords who want to refresh apartments to stay in competition. This is a good sign.

Reading the ideas here is refreshing. Thanks, fellas.

Posted by alfalfa (anonymous) on February 1, 2008 at 3:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yup, these are all intelligent posts. It is good to see some common sense coming out of all of this. The comment that Emporia is always trying to hit the home run is a great way of putting it. The situation with Tyson should tell everyone it is far better to have 15 employers with 100 employees than one with 1500...there will always be businesses that fail or move on for one reason or another, it is alot easier to handle 100 lost jobs than 1500. Another thing, I don't think it is good to bribe companies to come to Emporia with huge tax breaks..if you are going to give tax breaks, take a risk on local people first, help them start new businesses. They have a vested interest in Emporia.

Posted by isabella (anonymous) on February 1, 2008 at 8:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Alfalfa i totaly agree with you that smaller businesses are good for the local economy but they lack the ability to supply some of the benifits of larger ones such as health insurance.Most small businesses fail with in the first 3 years. Every one wants to save a few bucks and will go to larger discount stores.There is no longer any customer loyalty in this country. Emporia needs to stop bribing larger companies to come to emporia and make them pay their fair share just as everyone else.I'm not sure if anyone has read the topeka paper today but there is a very interesting artical about the govener being led to believe that there were enough jobs for all 1500 employees when it is more like 500 -600.Another artical about tyson had a 40% loss last quarter but still made a 34 million dollar profit plus they are going to raise prices for 2008 to cover to increased cost of feed.They are putting the smaller cattle ranchers out of business trying to kill a town and distroying thousands of peoples lives what amount of profit is that worth? Everyone of us need to never but another tyson product again and start buying from local meat lockers this way we know that it locally grown and locally processed and the profit stay here.

Posted by admireed (anonymous) on February 1, 2008 at 9:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

isa: Oh BS!

Posted by momus (anonymous) on February 1, 2008 at 11:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Isabella,

I do agree with some of what you are saying. We as Americans tend to be a little short sighted in some areas. Don't have the money now? Put it on the credit card! A retail company is forcing U.S. manufacturing overseas? I'll shop there anyway because it will never affect me (until it does)! What most of us are talking about in this thread is how to bring the community back, but I think we would all agree that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Let’s all try and be a little more conscious of the consequences of our actions, and realize that short term quick fixes often lead to long term major problems.

In short, appreciate the hard working local farmers and ranchers, and frankly, entrepreneurs of all types. Let’s work hard to ensure that those who have bonds to this community that run deeper than a balance sheet are successful. Lets try and learn from this horrific experience, and build a better Emporia AND surrounding area because of what we have learned.

I'm not under the illusion that the coming months or even years will be easy for Emporia, but nothing worth while is ever easy. Building a city isn't a sprint, it's an unending marathon. We need our local agriculturalists, manufacturers, retailers, service businesses and restaurant owners to be in step with the local population and exercise leadership through this tough time. And, we need a local population that is willing and able to respond intelligently and sustainably to this economic catastrophe. Only through patience, diligence, hard work and understanding can we create a diversified and sustainable local economy that can support consistent growth. Do you think that type of support, patience and foresight is realistic considering the current leadership, business community and citizenship? Or, do we revert back to the "we need one big employer, one national restaurant and another big box and all of our problems will be solved" mentality?

Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on February 2, 2008 at 5:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Momus

That is our problem Like you, I'm concerned that we are going to fall back into that same old pattern.

Posted by alfalfa (anonymous) on February 2, 2008 at 7:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Momus: There are actually alot of people that think like you do, I am one of them by the way. Where are all of these people when it comes election time, that is what I wonder?
Competition is always the best thing among businesses, yet when you look at the likes of Wal Mart and Tyson, they seem bent on getting rid of the competition. Consumers need to always ask themselves where their money ends up, and what the final user is going to do with it. Saving yourself $5 a week on groceries or $2 a tank on gas in the long run might cost you if that very company is going to end up putting you out of work. The true cost of tax abatements needs to be calculated before they are given to companies as well. As Americans we value our freedom and our middle class. We must realize it will take effort, thought, and dedication on our part to maintain this way of life, we can't always let someone else do it.

Posted by Cherry_Bomb (anonymous) on February 3, 2008 at 9:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)

************************************************************************************************
Governor Says She Had Wrong Info on Tyson
Posted: 4:11 PM Feb 1, 2008
http://www.wibw.com/13newsat6/headlines/......

Gov. Kathleen Sebelius said Friday she was given inaccurate information regarding
the massive lay-off at the Emporia Tyson plant. Tyson announced Jan. 25 that it would
end beef slaughter operations at the Emporia facility, cutting 1500 of that plant's 2400 jobs.

**** Sebelius says she was told jobs would be offered within Tyson for all of the employees
who are being laid off. At a Friday news conference, she said she's now learned the offers
will be made to as FEW as 400 workers.

Half of the job offers will be at the Finney County plant.
The rest at Tyson plants in Nebraska and Illinois.

Emporia city leaders, community members and Sen. Sam Brownback were meeting
behind closed doors in Emporia Friday afternoon to talk about the Tyson situation.

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