Posted by hogan77 (anonymous) on January 28, 2008 at 3:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Emporia has lost 1,500 jobs, but the community is not dying or crippled."

From my understanding, between Tyson and IBC in ruins, Emporia is on the road to becoming a ghost town. Where else are people going to get jobs? Heaven knows that the cost of living there is entirely too high for anyone on McDonalds or Kwik Shop salary to pay,... so I expect there will be a LOT of people moving on to other towns to survive.

Posted by motorbog (anonymous) on January 28, 2008 at 3:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't understand your article. Emporia is a dying town and this might just be the final blow. The effects of the layoff will hurt everyone in town from the students in school to our senior citizens. Emporia is not the town that I grew up in. It's old, run down and in ruins.

As the previous poster stated, Emporia will be nothing more than a ghost town - look at the downtown area already. When I was growing up that was the hub of the city with RedX, Newmans and all the other stores.

The only way I was going to survive after attending ESU was to move on - it's just a matter of time before many more people do the same. It’s not just one sad day for Emporia, but many, many more to come.

Posted by anonomom (anonymous) on January 28, 2008 at 3:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Fine, if you have moved on then MOVE ON!

I disagree that this town is a ghost town. Things may not be they way YOU remember them, but for many in this town we enjoy the community and the diversity. I have lived in a much SMALLER more remote town with even fewer good paying jobs, and you know what? Their main street program SAVED that down town. Buildings were being condemned, and it didn't happen over night, but now those shops are full! interesting stores, resturants, even some public offices. It is a jewel, and it was a lot of hard work. I personally helped to some of the demo and remodeling on a couple of the buildings. I think we have some wonderful stores downtown, and yes we do have some empty buildings, but in time the right fit will come. I am so excited to see what the Granda opening will do for downtown.

We had the choice to take our family to an number of cities to live, but CHOSE to live here. If you have no vision for Emporia for the future, then good ridance. There is nothing we can do for you, and obviously nothing you are doing for us.

Posted by anonomom (anonymous) on January 28, 2008 at 3:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

And I just have to say that there ARE jobs to be had here after ESU, my husband and I both had zero problems obtaining above average jobs here.

Posted by rox_alan (anonymous) on January 28, 2008 at 5:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

To Anonomom that is fine that you moved here and you think our City of Emporia has done a fine job of rebuilding downtown area... I'm happy to see that they did but you are not seeing the full impact of what is happening to this town. I have lived here all my life...Tyson (formally IBP and Interstate Brands (IBC Dolly Madison) has been here for over 30 years and was the main industry for Emporia. With 1500 people from Tyson and the possibilty of IBC doing something in the future there isn't enough good paying jobs left in this town to support everyone. This has hurt our town considerably and unless Emporia brings in more industry I don't see us making a comeback and we could become a town of uncertainty the people will have to go somewhere for jobs and that means our ecomony will be downhill. SO yes we could very well become a town with no growth and die out.... So City Manager and others who will decide our future you better do something soon or we will be no more....

Posted by sla (anonymous) on January 28, 2008 at 5:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

10 years ago I moved on, but I didn't forget my "little hometown". I love going back to visit, I love going to see my family and friends. I love that it takes me 10min to get to one end of town to the other and not the 1.5hour that it takes me now. People can make a good living in Emporia. Just because you moved on to a bigger supposably "better" town doesn't make Emporia a dying town, or an ugly in ruins town.

I know things are not the same as they were before & it will take awhile for Emporia to get back on its feet. And I hope they do!

So from an earlier post: " Fine, if you have moved on then MOVE ON!" especially if all you have to say is negative!

If you have nothing nice to say, then don't say anything at all. Stop reading about Emporia or commenting about it.

The people of Emporia already have so much to deal with, they don't need the negative comments.

Posted by anonomom (anonymous) on January 28, 2008 at 6:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

rox_alan,

I have been an Emporian for 15 years. I understand completely the impact this Tyson situation is going to have, more than you know. I lived in an oil boom town in the 80's when it went belly up. I know firsthand what can and probably will happen. I have watched the factories leave emporia for one reason or another over the past 15 years. You know what? It isn't just Emporia. It is everywhere! Look around!! Even larger more glamourous cities are struggling. This is where we are right now in our entire country. A previous poster talked about how main street used to be the heart of shopping in his/her day. I pose the question, for those who think mainstreet is old/doesn't meet your needs, when was the last time you stepped inside of walmart and loaded up your cart with cheap chinese crap? Yesterday? Yeah, most of us did too. The face of our country has changed. I am not a walmart hater, but think about things. As a society we demand low prices. How do stores get things at low prices to sell? Buying overseas. What happens then? Jobs/factories go overseas. When that happens, our local economy is going to suffer. I don't know that there is any way to reverse this. Emporia is probably not going to be the same town people grew up in, but thank goodness!!! Change is the name of the game. Dwelling on the past isn't getting us anywhere. I think it is so great that for a long time laborers could find work here and raise their families. Fact is, those kind of jobs are going away every day EVERYWHERE. Today it is Emporia. Tomorrow it will be somewhere else. Right now we need work with the stregths we do have and move into the future. I felt sick to my stomach and cried when I heard the news. I am so very worried about the families having to make some hard choices right now. I hope that somehow many will be able to stay because they enrich our community. "Emporia" is not going to magically wave a wand and "make" new jobs for these people. And for those who think the cost of living is oh so high here, have you seriously looked and compared? Two years ago I did. You know what I found? In the rare couple of cities where I found the cost of living to be lower, the wages were MUCH lower. Most of the metro KC and wichita area we found to be much more expensive in terms of housing, taxes, commuting costs (WAY too expensive or undesirable to live close to jobs.) Change is the name of the game right now. It isn't just little ol Emporia.

Posted by alfalfa (anonymous) on January 28, 2008 at 6:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

There are some awfully good posts above mine, especially the one from anonomom. All are pretty much on target. What just happened in Emporia is happening everywhere in our great country, and I for one am just a wee bit scared. Here is an idea about the Tyson situation.

I doubt Tyson wants this plant, I won't be surprised if they close it completely. I am certain for the right money it can be bought. The USDA loaned Deer Trail $750000 interest free for 10 years as part of an economic development program to create jobs. Every race of people work at Tyson now, 2008 is an election year, the economy is an issue. Moran is on board to help do something about what has happened. There are still some people in Emporia with money to invest. Cattlemen and their groups love to talk about alliances, some cattle are still fed out in the area, but many more are grazed here. The solution, I feel, is for the Emporia community and cattlemen to form an alliance and buy the Emporia plant. Make it an LLC, sell stock, borrow and get grants for the bulk of the funds, try to get employees to buy in as well. Use the plant to promote branded beef, under something catchy like "Flinthills Best Beef" or "Neosho Valley Farms". Perhaps several different brands can come out of the plant, the way Menu produces pet food under more than one label. One day a week could be devoted to Certified Angus Beef for example. Set the LLC up in a way that when the operation turns a profit, part is reinvested in the plant, part is paid to stockholders, part goes back the cattlemen and part to the workers. Emporia is great at giving tax abatements, in this case they surely should give a generous one. It won't be risk free, but it is a way that this situation could possibly turn out better than it was before.

Posted by anonomom (anonymous) on January 28, 2008 at 6:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

YES! I would buy that stock. And that beef.

Posted by hogan77 (anonymous) on January 28, 2008 at 7:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

anonomom, you talk about us wanting things cheap. Have you ever stepped out of your little box to see the way that over half of Emporians struggle every day? With high rent, outlandish prices on fuel, not to mention utilities, the precious schools and all of their hidden fees, we do all we can to buy things as cheaply as possible. Not everyone has a $30,000+ year salary. Now just think.. with one of your highest paying main employers cutting 1,500 people, throwing them into the streets, and IBC on the verge of closing it's doors (leaving possibly another 1,500 without employment), what exactly is left for these people? Nothing more than McDonald's, Burger King, and possibly a few convenience stores. Look in the want ads, I bet you would be surprised what is actually there for someone with no formal college education....

Posted by dj_doughy (anonymous) on January 28, 2008 at 7:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"With high rent, outlandish prices on fuel, not to mention utilities, the precious schools and all of their hidden fees, we do all we can to buy things as cheaply as possible."

Comparative to other cities, rent isn't that high. Studio to 3 room apt's go for around the 300-400 dollar range. Housing is 500-600 for a 3 bedroom 2 bath. You could be living in situations where rent is a couple hundred more than those prices...

This situation will be a big blow to the community, but it won't make this city a ghost town.

Posted by slipandslide (anonymous) on January 28, 2008 at 7:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

alfalfa, you have a very good idea, promote it to the city and cattlemen, it would be a splash hit!!

Posted by anonomom (anonymous) on January 28, 2008 at 8:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You are making me laugh!!

Step outside of my little box? What box would that be exactly? I know all about the rents and costs of homes and utilities. I worked full time at not much above minimum wage and hardly slept for 3 years putting myself thru college while living in a studio apartment, paying utlities, taxes, just the same as you. I worked two jobs when I had to. I borrowed student loans when I had to. No one handed me an education. My husband returned to complete his education while working full time and we hardly saw him for three years. We have a great tech college and university right at our doorstep!! When I went to school there were MANY non traditional students who were starting over at age 40 or above. It isn't easy, but if you want to make a livable wage you will need to look at your interests and talents and see what careers you could work towards with more education. I believe this is something that the schools will be doing with those displaced by tyson. I am well aware you can't pay the bills on burger king. I think a lot of people would be surprised at what kind of financial aid is available, ESPECIALLY for non traditional students with families.

And I agree with you, our schools ARE precious! We have family spread all over and I hear so many stories about the schools our neices and nephews attend. I have been so happy with the education our children are receiving, I consider it a bargain. I have spent countless hours inside the schools, and I am very happy with what I have seen. Have you? Are you sitting on the sidelines grumbling, or are you in there asking teachers and principals what you can do to help? I am proud of the great job our teachers are doing.

I have read the want ads. I see a lot of need for CNA, LPN, and RN's. FHTC has an LPN program that takes 11 months to complete. After that if you want to be an RN there are several area community colleges that have programs that are one year long to bridge the LPN to RN. That is just one example. I see ads for truck drivers, FHTC has a program for that, I don't know how long it is but it can't be more than 6 months or so. I understand often your first employer will pay for your training. This is just off the top of my head. If you want a job that pays $30,000 a year or more, you are going to have to put in the time for some new training in the fields were more workers are needed.

Posted by hogan77 (anonymous) on January 28, 2008 at 8:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You don't seem to realize, not everyone is able to attend college, due to funding, and there are many who wish not to be an LPN, RN, or CNA. Not everyone has the ability to deal with the sick, just as not everyone has the ability to be a tractor trailer driver. Would you want someone like that taking your blood, or caring for your ailing mother in the rest home? I would want someone with the ability to not only do their job, but do it well. You keep pushing the school option. Can you answer me, who watches those kids while that single mom is taking night classes? Who is paying all of those bills while they are off learning? Many people just don't have the resources available to go back to school. It would be wonderful if they did, but you are being completely unrealistic here. Not everyone is meant to go out and further their education. Some of those people take jobs where they can, and Tyson and IBC just happened to be two of those places.

I don't have to ask the principals or teachers there what I can do to help. I am no longer in Emporia, I left because 5 years ago the town was going downhill. I worked at Wal-Mart, for more than minimum wage. And yet, there was no way I was making the bills. And that was for my daughter and I to live in a trashy one bedroom apartment. Don't even get me started on SRS, there is no help there. They always said I made TOO MUCH to receive any help, I had to depend on the occasional hand up from the Salvation Army.

$300 is way too much to pay on a STUDIO apartment. When I moved to my community here, that is exactly what we paid on a 2 bedroom HOUSE. The landlords there have to up the rent, because the taxes in Emporia are outlandish. It makes it extremely difficult to get decent housing at a decent price.

I'm not trying to cause a fight here, I just want you to see things from someone else's view, someone who has been in the same position that some of the Tyson workers are about to be in. You keep talking about how things were for you, but have you thought about how it is for them?

Posted by anonomom (anonymous) on January 28, 2008 at 9:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You made the right choice for you and your family. Sure, maybe some don't want to do those jobs, that was not my point. My point was there WILL be a way if they look for it. I know there will be some special resources available. If someone wants to give in and throw in the towel and say I can't, well by golly they won't. But they are responsible for that choice. There are going to be a host of people trying to help these displaced workers find something. Maybe moving away and doing similar work is the answer for some. For others, retraining in a new field. No one is "owed" a cheap apartment, or high paying job.

I do think about how it is for them, because I have several friends going through it. one family in particular is just breaking my heart because I know they will probably leave and I really hate to see them go. Another, after almost 20 years here at the beef is considering a new career doing something else. I desperatly want to make it all better.

I am not trying to start a fight either and I appreciate your views as well. It sounds like you made the right choice for your and your family, and I pray that the folks having to make hard choices for theirs in the coming months will have the strength to do so.

Posted by emporia (anonymous) on January 28, 2008 at 9:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Anonomom--thank you for the very nice comments about our schools and teachers. We are very deeply saddened by the situation at Tyson. We care deeply about our students and their families and want to do everything we can to help them in such a sad and stressful time.

Posted by admireed (anonymous) on January 28, 2008 at 9:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

emporia: would you offer to take a 10% cut in teacher pay to help out the local taxpayers?

Posted by pizza (anonymous) on January 28, 2008 at 10:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Alfalfa, I think you are on to something there. I suspect Tyson would want way more money than locals could pay for that plant but the idea is right on. Have you noticed that NOBODY has even mentioned the greatest source of money that comes into the local community? Yes, that would be from agriculture and it is swept under the carpet because few in the city knows or gives a hoot about the farm and ranch people. I can think of a number options that could really put the community on the map dealing direct with agriculture but I sure would not want the city fathers or the chamber involved. Afterall, do you see any reference to agriculture on the recent new "plan" for the city? One of the first things you do on any plan is to determine the strengths and weaknesss for your situation and encourage the strengths and mitigate the weaknesses. Is agriculture a local strength? I believe it is.

Posted by alfalfa (anonymous) on January 28, 2008 at 10:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Pizza: The plant would cost alot of money, but not an unattainable amount. As I said, the majority of the money would need to be borrowed and/or obtained through grants. It would involve risk, like most other investments. Cattlemen like myself have moaned for years that we have no control over cattle prices, and if only we could own a packer. I know my idea would work, but alot of things have to come together for it to happen. The fact so many minorities work at Tyson is a plus,because I think the government would have some programs available to help finance a business that had jobs for minorities. The fact it is an election year would help as well, no politician in their right mind would want to be seen as doing anything that would not be helpful to an idea like this. I do think the powers that be in Emporia tend to ignore the importance of agriculture. I also think that entirely too much emphasis is put on new business rather than helping the businesses already here survive and thrive. It is interesting to read all the positive comments about attracting new business to the community to make up for the loss of Tyson, then watch the State of the Union speech and its aftermath and how the bad economy is a nationwide problem. Emporia is going to have stiff competition for drawing new business. The best bet as far as I am concerned is to try to gather the support and buy the Tyson plant outright. It is already here, I feel certain Tyson has no plans longterm for it. The land around Emporia for miles is best suited for one thing, raising cattle and raising feed for cattle. It is an ambitious idea for sure, but one that would benefit more than just Emporia,and would capitalize on resources already here. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I would be willing under the right leadership and circumstances to throw $1000-$2000 in the pot with the understanding I might lose all of it.

Posted by hottopics (anonymous) on January 28, 2008 at 10:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Why are we wasting our time arguing with "Know it Alls"? No matter what we say or think Annon and a few others will have this lack of info remarks that are just enough to ruffle our feathers and lash back. Most of us here see the Big Picture in this town that was hanging on by a thread of a chewed up rope and the was lit on fire Friday.

I felt very passionate enough to try and set them straight but realized all we are doing is keeping them coming back with nonsense that has us rolling our eyes.

Hopefully if we just comment to each other who are here for the right reasons this "freedom of speech babble" will go away.

Posted by anonomom (anonymous) on January 28, 2008 at 10:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

admireed, emporia IS a local taxpayer. Where the heck did that come from? Do you think educators don't pay taxes? Why don't you ask one how much of his or her own money is spent buying supplies and equiptment for their class? I hardly think the teachers are getting rich, lol.

Posted by pizza (anonymous) on January 28, 2008 at 11:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Alfalfa, I couldn't agree with you more on your general idea. I, too, would be willing to contribute to the kitty with some good leadership and good ideas. Ever think about some speciality products or all natural or CAB or any of numerous other niche products, even organic? We have the feeder cattle and the feedlots to produce quite a few cattle for a speciality situation. I also produce some cattle. The answer does not lie in seeing who can pay the most to lure some company to town that is only looking for the best deal. The answer lies in some sharp local folks willing to take some financial risk and give some time to make a project work. Bribing manufacturers to come to town has not worked in the past and likely will not work in the future....just wastes tax dollars. You are probably a little more diplomatic in this area than I am but we've all seen the same people doing the same things for a long time and little of it is working. Would be interesting to continue this discussion.

Posted by eddison2 (anonymous) on January 29, 2008 at 9:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)

JUST A thought........

THOSE of you with the ideas that TYSON has no plans or desire to keep the plant are not people from inside the situation or company.....YOU have no CLUE....

A good suggestion at this point is to REALIZE Tyson will still be the largest employer in this city........instead of bashing and devising ways to undermine with thoughts and opinions that are totaly unfounded I would think some should be thankful they have a job and focus on DOING their jobs wether it be at TYSON or not......

THERE are Companies FAILING all over this country.....and UNLIKE DOLLY, TYSON is trying to do something TO keep out of a situation that would be ever more devestating....as with FORD laying off 30+thousand,,,,IBM laid off 20+ thousand last year....its a sad time across the board....as for now I am thankful 900 jobs are still provided for....along with the team members taking the opportunity to transfer and go forward in these changing times....

Posted by methusla (anonymous) on January 29, 2008 at 9:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)

All I know is that what ever industry is brought to Emporia there needs to be some sort of commitment or gruarantee by that industry that they will hire and employee local area citizens before hiring anyone else for job positions.
Also the City, County etc., needs to reign in their often wasteful spending of taxpayer money on unnecessary and frivolous things i.e., multi-million dollar courthouse, library statue, clock tower, etc, etc.
It's a sad day when anyone has to endure a cut in necessary jobs, but I believe that Tyson had been planning this move for some time and had been deceiving all of Emporia. They have been doing this very same thing all over the U. S. for some time now.
The entire U.S. economy is in trouble right now and the blame can be placed squarely on corrupt, wealthy individuals, wealthy corporations and especially on the shoulders of the current extremely corrupt administration in WASHINGTON D.C..

Posted by 77flint (anonymous) on January 29, 2008 at 9:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The grass is always greener on the other side. Emporia is a great place to live and will not die. There are many great people here that will not give up on this city.

I hope that everything will work out for the families affected by this event.

Posted by trashman (anonymous) on January 29, 2008 at 11:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Hey Kelley --what have you been smoking? 1,500 jobs in Emporia is a real disaster not to say crippling. You seem to think that this event is just a walk in the park? Why don't you and the city officials admit the truth- this is a heck of a blow, but I'll agree that it may not be fatal, but it's sure damaging and will be for time to come.

To those considering a speciality operation that might work i.e. Fanestils, but not in the building at its present site, you need something smaller than a building that operated two shifts and killed 4,000 head a day. The best reason that I can think of for not removing equipment from this slaughter is that it is probably outdated, not designed to fit elsewhere or wornout, normally anything usable is salvaged when an operation of this type is closed.

Posted by 56flash (anonymous) on January 29, 2008 at 11:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"The entire U.S. economy is in trouble right now and the blame can be placed squarely on corrupt, wealthy individuals, wealthy corporations and especially on the shoulders of the current extremely corrupt administration in WASHINGTON D.C.." really? What about $10,000 average credit card debt? or too much house, too much car, etc, etc, etc. If we expect our government to operate within limits, should'nt we as well? Buy now and worry later has to be part of this equation. The loss of the Sante Fe and Wolf Creek construction workers was far worse a problem for Emporia. This too shall pass. We can complain, point fingers, and claim the sky is falling, or we can move on and try to build a better community

Posted by nutsaboutools (anonymous) on January 29, 2008 at 11:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Be as optimistic as you like, the fact is, unless Emporia introduces some industry & retail that provides jobs that pay above minimum wage, shares in supporting the tax base and attracts more consumers, Emporia will become a “ghost town”. What do you think is going to happen to property taxes, school fees, rent, utility costs? Who’s going to buy the homes that hit the real estate market or replace the rentals that become vacated, who’s going to spend money in Emporia? I’d move out of Emporia too if I knew I could sell my house (it took 3 years for a house down the street to sell, and it sold for considerably less than what the owners bought it for). My taxes are already way too high, my kids have to walk to school (I have to re-mortgage my house to pay all the school fees, just kidding, but the fees are very budget busting). Since we moved here, we’ve been hearing the same old phrase, “things are just fine, Emporia’s a great place to live”. Don’t get me wrong, I too love Emporia, and that’s why I’m concerned. Remember, they said the Titanic was unsinkable. The owners and designers continued to say that even as she sank. I hope we don’t meet the same fate (in a theoretical sense), I hope this is a wake-up call for our city commission. We need to stop discouraging, and start encouraging new business & retail to Emporia.

Posted by eddison2 (anonymous) on January 29, 2008 at 12:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

@ admireed - Asking a teacher to take a pay cut is like asking a fire fighter or a police officer to take a pay cut. Teachers and educators are already severly underpaid.. The average career span of an educator that is in a public school district is FIVE YEARS... they are one of the lowest paid professionals around with a median income of 32k... I know this isn't what the discussion is about but just try to think before you ask something stupid...

Posted by momus (anonymous) on January 29, 2008 at 12:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

How exactly are we discouraging new business? We have industrial incentives, retail incentives, land incentives, tax incentives and positions/organizations specifically geared towards the recruitment and retention of businesses of all types. We can argue about the effectiveness of the individuals or organizations responsible for recruitment and retention I suppose, but I don't think that we have "discouraged" anyone from entering the Emporia market. I know there are a lot of people that say "why don't we have a (insert store or restaurant name here)". But, for the most part those individuals I have spoken with grossly overestimate the Emporia markets carrying capacity.

Yes, we need to get more creative in attracting new industry to come to Emporia. We need to also encourage entrepreneurship and the expansion of existing industry. We need to diversify our economy so that if we have another closing in the future, we are not so over dependant on that one company that we create another Tyson situation. I hear the "discouraging" business comments fairly regularly. Can someone give me an example where a business was discouraged from entering Emporia, and chose not to locate in our city?

Posted by admireed (anonymous) on January 29, 2008 at 1:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

eddison... I was thinking about the impact of taxes on the businesses and individuals in the community. With less folks here, taxes will be higher on each person still here. Taxes would be lower of govt expenses (teacher pay) were less. The professions you mentioned may be underpaid. That is a separate issue. These professionals could take a cut if they wanted just like the owners of the bike shop, shoe store, car lot, barber, grocery store will have to. Sharing the burden

Posted by create (anonymous) on January 29, 2008 at 3:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

admireed, we teachers have been "sharing the burden" for so many years our backs are broken. Most of us are offered raises that are below the cost of living rise from the previous year. If I wanted anything extra for my classroom, I had to buy it myself, and that included equipment, not just paper/soft goods. Ask any teacher how much he or she spends on classroom supplies and you may be shocked to learn that it goes way beyond paper goods. We also pay for our own continuing education during "summers off." Don't forget, teachers aren't the only people supported by government dollars. Should people on social security share the burden by taking a cut on their payments too?

Sorry to get off topic, everyone, but this one really deserves an additional comment from someone in the trenches.

Posted by methusla (anonymous) on January 29, 2008 at 3:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yes I say the econonic mess the entire country is in can and should be blamed on exactly who I said should be blamed in my previous post.
Who would you blame for starting an administration with a bonafide surplus of several hundred billion dollars and now the that very same administration is operating or trying to operate with somewhere around a 14 trillion that is in plain language $14,000,000,000,000 deficit.
If you would like to know how much each and each man, woman and child in the U.S. would have to pay in order to just balance the national debt to 0, again 14,000,000,000,000 and divide that figure by 300,000,000 and the figure you will arrive at that each man, woman and child would have to pay would be more money than most all working people make in a years time or in some cases 2,3 or 4 years time and that is if each man, woman and child gave every cent they earned to the government to help pay down the debt that has been created by the current administrations fiscal policy.
The figures are so staggering, I and I think most people would find them beyond the imagination.
Now if anyone does not think that the senseless war, tax cuts for the wealthy, blatant and flagrant giving away of taxpayer money in the form of government grants, etc. are not largely responsible for the ecomomic mess that the U.S. is currently experiencing then you don't live in the same country as myself and others live in.
Also State, County and Local governments follow the example set by the Federal Government, its sort of a monkey see monkey do system.

Posted by truelovecharlie (anonymous) on January 29, 2008 at 8:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

For Momun---I have previuosly posted that Emporia was a finalist when the Ks. Dept. of Corrections was adding new prisons but the people of Emporia raised such a fuss and the state said they didn't want to go where they weren't wanted and chose ElDorado instead. That entity will do nothing but grow as crime is always on the rise. The aveerage correctional officer makes equal and higher than the average Tyson worker. I well remember the money Emporia through into a furniture plant that was a total desaster. I remember well being very vocally for Wolf Creek when all others in Emporia were against it. Change is always happening and in order for survival people sometimes have to accept, some not so desirable, moves. The is a huge energy crisis and everyone is upset at the costs of energy. Industry is wanting to build new coal plants and wind farms but the majority are against them. Everyone wants answers but no one wants to compromise. America needs to realize the reason so many foreigners come here to work is because a large part of our society is basically lazy! I see unions striking and threatening strikes all the time and many of these are already paid far more than I've ever made on an hourly basis. In my opinion (and it's only my opinion) no man walking the earth is worth being paid more than a couple hundred thousand dollars a year. Look at all the sports that pay their players absurd amounts of money and we support those entities. I have owned my own company and ended up using mostly Mexican imigrants as they were the only ones willing to work long hard hours to get the work done we needed to get done. I paid them very well for their work. The average American I would hire wanted to sit down and take a break every 15 minutes or so. The Mexicans would only cash the checks I gave them every week; once a month and send most of that money home to Mexico to their families and live off the rest themselves. America is greedy, always has been and probably always will be. Greed is the reason America is in the shape it is in now and greed will keep it going in the same direction.

Posted by admireed (anonymous) on January 29, 2008 at 8:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

truelove ... You have obviously been there. Too many of us just can not see "real" job/work hard situation. You are right on about the prison. Emporia passed on it. Green checks like prisons and universities are are are ... what? Recession proof, steady? Thanks for stepping into this blog

Posted by truelovecharlie (anonymous) on January 29, 2008 at 8:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sorry about all the misspelled words! The reply above was for Momus.

Posted by admireed (anonymous) on January 29, 2008 at 8:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Remember the Chamber and city leaders were for the prison and got bounced out as the rank and file was against it

Posted by iamconcerned (anonymous) on January 29, 2008 at 8:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

alfalfa and pizza your hearts are in the right place but your ideas are way off track. The idea of every rancher in Lyon and Chase county contributing $1000-$2000 I would guess would only be enough to turn the lights on and off and from there the place would be running in the red. The costs of supplies, labor, energy, shipping, cattle and all the other hidden costs of running an operation such as a beef plant I think would be too much to overcome.

Posted by noel_stanton (anonymous) on January 29, 2008 at 8:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Alfalfa's concept of a locally owned and supplied beef packer (8th post from the top of this thread) is WONDERFUL!!! Especially the idea of producing different brands of beef. Several others have posted related ideas.

Observer on Jan. 25, at 9:11 posted the following:
The local ranchers will need to see a greater emphasis on grazing/pasturing and a reduction in winter feeding operations.

There is a local meatpacking plant (he includes a link to Fanistelmeats), which emphasizes quality of product. Perhaps they should consider expanding into a quality beef product without the use of growth hormones. Perhaps a beef free of additives and corporate greed would be welcome in our local markets. Perhaps an expansion into natural beef production with support from the community would provide quality jobs for our people.

My post followed Observer a few minutes later on Jan. 25, at 9:13 p. m.:

Suggestion: ranchers and regional investors can establish a cooperative with the goal of producing and marketing natural meat, call it "organic beef." There is a growing market for grass-fed, chemical-free meat. Consumers will pay top dollar if they are certain of the quality and that it is authentic.
When the cooperative gets going, it might only employ 400 in Emporia but at least 1500 people in the area would have an income as suppliers. And the image of a national product "Flint Hills BBB, Bio-Beef and Buffalo" can only make the town and region more attractive.

Gallo used to have bad wines. In fact, Gallo was another name for "cheap binge, bad headache." Gallo made an effort to improve and today it sells successfully at a much higher price, even in wine producing European countries.

Emporia should make the same effort to improve the meat products it sends out to the nation. Don't mix good grass-fed meat with the low quality coming from industrial feedlots.
Tyson just gave the city and the region a stiff body blow to the gut. You have strengths; use them to get your breath back and maybe even beat Tyson at its own game.

Continued....

Posted by noel_stanton (anonymous) on January 29, 2008 at 8:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Continued....

Observer then posted five suggestions on Jan. 25, at 10:57 p.m.: (shortened due to space restrictions)

#2 Encourage Fanestils to expand slaughter/processing of local organic beef. http://www.emporiagazette.com/news/2006/......
In fact, there’s been so much success at Fanestil’s, the company is running out of places to put it.
“We’re pretty much out of room, out of space, out of opportunities to do more here,” said Dan Smoots, who owns the plant with his wife, Jan. “I’d like to get the ball rolling and see what we can do to get located out of this flood way.”

Some kind of expansion is going to be necessary. The company is just doing too well.
A lot of that push has come from the company’s organic meat lines, a market the company began to explore in 2005.
“With the elimination of the small country stores, it was obvious we had to look into some other areas,” Smoots said. “We were small enough that we could take on an organic line of products. For other people, it’d be too small for them, or too big. For us, it was just the right size.” and

#5 Organic local production of poultry, beef, pork. Slaughter/processing and retailing.

Reading the reactions being posted above, all the moaning, nit-picking attacks on others, the black despair and insistence that Emporia is dying and soon to be a ghost town. Open your eyes and see that the business concept sketched out by Alfalfa can work and uses the strengths of the town and the region!!! Get positive.

This is being written in Europe. European beef is pathetic but Europeans will not eat American beef because it is full of chemicals and hormones. Europeans spend millions to eat beef in Argentinean steakhouses because the meat is guaranteed to be from the pampas. I doubt it is completely chemical free but the European consumer thinks it is.

If Emporia would produce grass-fed, guaranteed non-industrial beef, there is a huge potential for over-the-counter sales, a hamburger chain and restaurant franchises all over the world featuring top product Kansas beef! Go for it instead of waiting for the City Manager or the powers that be to find some big plant that will set up for a few years and then fire everyone and move on again.

Posted by hottopics (anonymous) on January 29, 2008 at 9:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I think most wouldnt mind paying a bit more to have chemical free meat, eggs, dairy, cheese etc. But we are already paying out through the cows nose for what we get shoved at us now.

Posted by cutty_angel (anonymous) on January 29, 2008 at 9:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

well i think it is fair because some people tat work at tyson will lose their jobs and why dont they think about the workers family many workers need to pay a lot of bills

TYSON DONT STOP THINKING ABOUT YOUR SELF AND START THINKING ABOUT OUR COMMUNITY!!!!!!!!!!

wat would it be wit out the workers tat work at TYSON
and all of thoose employees tat work their

u are not only hurting the community but u r hurting our familys and i know many of us dont want to leave many of our parents tat work their came to work to earn money so each day they could put food on the table to eat.....try and think of tat......

Posted by momus (anonymous) on January 29, 2008 at 10:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Truelove,

Sorry for the late response. I think a lot of people made my points for me, but... First, the prison failed because it failed in a popular election, not because the city government or other entities discouraged business. Secondly, although the prison may have been a source of income, I don't believe it fits the traditional definition of a business. People didn't want the C of E campus used for a prison because of its centralized location and the potential to use the buildings for other more traditional types of businesses (Birch would be one example). And, as some have pointed out, there were business organizations that lobbied for the inclusion of a prison.

As far as Wolf Creek is concerned, people were a lot more fearful of the potential consequences of a nuclear power plant at that time. But, the plant still was built. You will never have 100% of the population agree on anything, but the execs of Wolf Creek did an exceptional job of engaging the public to explain potential costs and benefits of the project. In the end, people that lived in what once was the third poorest county in the state of Kansas took a calculated risk and it paid off.

I still don't see how we are discouraging business though...

Posted by gbdr97 (anonymous) on January 29, 2008 at 10:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Dosent anyone remember when Santa Fe RR pulled out of Emporia. I should think that the salaries that were lost then greatly eclipsed those lost by Tyson. I would also like to point out that a large amount of the salaries that were paid by tyson were going back to other countries and not into the economy. If we survived Santa Fe this is but a blip on the screen
IMHO

Posted by alfalfa (anonymous) on January 29, 2008 at 10:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Iamconcerned, my idea is not way off track. Who said anything about limiting the investment to Lyon and Chase county, and if you read my post, I said nothing about limiting investment just to cattlemen. If you look, I said borrow most of the money. To supply the Tyson plant with cattle will take most of eastern Kansas and parts of adjoining states. Hartenbower states on the KVOE website that the county "only" owes $9.5 million on the courthouse, down from $16 million. As an aside, would someone please tell me what a $16 million courthouse has done for Emporia and Lyon county? Back to the topic, if Lyon county can come up with $16 million to build a courthouse, why can't the area come up with the money to build or buy a plant like the Tyson plant? Also, I never said the plan is without risk, I stated to begin with it might fail, just like any other business. But at least, for this investment, unlike the courthouse, the economy of the entire area would benefit. I've made alot of comments about Tyson closing and how devastating it is, taken a few shots like a few of the other realists for telling it like it is. As I said before, happy talk is not going to cut it. Why should companies invest in Emporia if the people of Emporia won't take risk themselves??

Posted by alfalfa (anonymous) on January 29, 2008 at 10:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

To add to my last comment, why give the tax breaks to people "coming in" all the time? Why not do it ourselves? There is also alot of blame for the weak local economy being pinned on local elected officials, I can't say I am a huge fan,but they can't create jobs out of thin air. To create jobs takes INVESTMENT. The downturn is a nationwide thing, it isn't just Emporia. The best way to keep Emporia strong is through local investment, not bribing companies from elsewhere to come in. I have by the way heard Menu's days are numbered, and the biodiesel plant has been put on hold, both unrelated to this. There are still people in this area with money to invest, why shouldn't they invest it here?

Posted by truelovecharlie (anonymous) on January 29, 2008 at 10:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Momus, I wasn't just meaning the powers that be in Emporia, I was refering to the population as a whole. As for the prison; I was refering to when they were wanting to build out on East south avenue. My message is meant for the general population. All the people that complain about everything and everyone else. All those that have griped about IBP then Tyson and the smells. You could always tell which part of town you were in ; East you have the great smells of the soybeans being milled, west you have the stench of the packing plant and northwest the delicious smells of Dolly. What people are failing to not realize is that the initial decision with Tyson was dictated by the current economics. Second would be the locals attitude towards them. If Emporians would have been more open-armed with Tyson and their employees, just maybe, Tyson would have decided to reduce a different plant in a different area. The bottom line still remains that it's the state of the economy that is driving these decisions wether it is in Emporia or elsewhere in the US.

Posted by admireed (anonymous) on January 29, 2008 at 10:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Point of information court house cost in the range of $20+ million if you include all the sly funding that went into the bldg. Plus the ongoing increase of utilities and maintanance...etc

Posted by admireed (anonymous) on January 29, 2008 at 10:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Some years ago group of pretty smart ag folks got coop, Farmland Industries, into product production. They lost their a**. Marketing beef and producing beef are different. High risk venture to buy Tyson plant and get into distribution. If it was a gravy train Tyson stock would be up not down

Posted by alfalfa (anonymous) on January 29, 2008 at 11:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Farmland was not managed well, that is pretty much a known fact. Tyson is making money or they would sell the meat packing end completely. If you are paying out millions of dollars in bonus checks to upper management, you are making money. Every big business is high risk, so are most small ones. The idea will work, but will probably never be tried. Far easier for most to sit and complain,and much less risk. Also it is far easier for the Emporia powers that be to grant tax abatements to outsiders than it would be to risk some of their own money investing in businesses. If Emporia wants this bright new future, it is going to mean risk, it is going to take money, and it is going to take some cutting edge ideas. I suppose the idea here is that since this idea is coming from a farmer and would largely be run by farmers it will not work? Most farmers I know are top notch business people, we have to be.

Posted by emporian (anonymous) on January 29, 2008 at 11:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

We had the chance to have Wolf Creek in this county. They wanted to build it on Badger Creek. People in this county shot it down so they put it on Wolf Creek in Coffey County.

The sky is not falling. Times will be tough for awhile but in the end I see Emporia as a better place. The community can either keep pissing and moaning about this, or we can turn lemons into lemonade.

Posted by alfalfa (anonymous) on January 30, 2008 at 6:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

No one wants to live near feedlots, wind turbines, nuke plants, landfills, prisons, refineries, etc. Takes alot of the options out for the area. No one wants to risk their own money, they want someone else to do it. No one wants to put their reputation on the line with ideas, they want to blame elected officials. What nobody can seem to figure out is when the county or city grants a tax abatement,you (taxpayer) are putting money into a business, you just don't get any of the profit. I think the Ingenium(sp?) building is still empty? Maybe that is where we should start when thinking about new business, something that can fit in that building. What about the Lenze building? Modine?

Posted by noel_stanton (anonymous) on January 30, 2008 at 9 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Alfalfa

You still have a great idea!! All the negatives being posted here are not because you are a farmer, but rather because most people are limited in their vision and react with a knee jerk to new ideas.

Would it be cheaper during the start up phase to lease a slaughter line from Tyson rather than buying a building and equipment? Assuming that Tyson would lease.

Posted by emporialifer (anonymous) on January 30, 2008 at 9:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

56 - I couldn't agree with you more about everyone needing to take responsibility for their actions. It shocks me that people have the debt that they have, but they refuse to change their lifestyle (priorities a little out of whack there) to turn things around. I agree our gov't - local and federal - seem to spend money on frivolous things (anyone recall Gov. Sebelius giving gov't workers an additional paid day off around a holiday - I think that only cost KS taxpayers an extra half million dollars).

Methusla - I don't agree with companies bringing in illegal cheap labor, but at the same time I think anyone that puts themselves in a business owner's shoes would want to hire good help as cheaply as possible. I can't even imagine the gov't coming in and saying a business can only hire locals. What if there are no qualified locals for the position? A business owner has to have the right/ability to hire the person they deem best for the job. Unfortunately our system is so screwed up these days that some businesses take advantage of their employees, but at the same time there are a lot of employees out there that take advantage of the business they work or worked for.

Do people really believe that Tyson chose to shut down Emporia's production because Emporia wasn't the most welcoming to its workers? C'mon guys - this is Corporate America - where the almighty dollar is what makes the decisions, not whether or not Tyson can win a popularity contest.

Yes this will affect a lot of people and I feel for those families that are facing tough decisions right now, but it seems to me that we all have two choices. We can either be negative and continue to complain about how bad this is OR we can realize that sometimes life throws us curveballs that we cannot control, so its up to us to make the best of it and remain positive.

Posted by mythoughts (anonymous) on January 30, 2008 at 10:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)

A hormone-free, drug-free series of meat products would be GREAT!! Americans would buy it, but especially Japan and Europe would buy it! Add the "aura" of Kansas grass-fed happy cows freely roaming the beautiful Flint Hills (instead of squatting in a feed lot) and I don't see how you could fail. Wish I had the capital to venture...I do invest my home-meat dollars into this kind of product, regardless of cost. I'd rather have three excellent meat meals a week than seven questionable ones.

Posted by pizza (anonymous) on January 30, 2008 at 11:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Alfalfa, don't back down now. You have many excellent ideas that need to be pursued. Yes, there are all the negative comments but we are talking agriculture and Emporia so the negative attitude is a given. Anybody who is a successful farmer or rancher is most definitely a top notch business manager. A locally owned operation could eliminate many of the problems of corporate America. We just need confidence in ourselves and a little community support that they would gladly give to an unknown outside business. What will it take to get this community to realize that agriculture has always provided the bulk of the jobs in this area?

Posted by open_eyes (anonymous) on January 30, 2008 at 3:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Now I've just heard (from people in the plant) that it is NOT 60 days severance pay. It is 2 days for each year worked, not to exceed 6 weeks total.

And I also just heard that this is the last week for 2nd shift slaughter.

Sounds like Tyson is changing their story already...... but then, that shouldn't surprise anyone....

Posted by morethenenough (anonymous) on January 30, 2008 at 4:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

AS you say "heard"....waiting on FACT!

Posted by open_eyes (anonymous) on January 30, 2008 at 4:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Well, we'll find out within a week whether it was rumor or fact.....

Posted by create (anonymous) on January 30, 2008 at 4:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm trying to remember something here. I was reminded today by someone who worked at Beef about the time that Tyson offered to buy IBP. Tyson tried to back out of the deal and it took a federal court to make them complete the deal. Does that sound familiar to anyone? That would have been about what, five or six years ago?

Posted by open_eyes (anonymous) on January 30, 2008 at 4:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Here's the first part of what create is referring to - ya have to pay to see the rest, so this is all I have :)

Source: MAUREEN MILFORD, Associated Press

WILMINGTON, Del. -A Delaware Chancery Court judge ruled Friday that Tyson Foods Inc. cannot back out of its $4.7 billion acquisition of South Dakota meatpacker IBP Inc. Vice Chancellor Leo E. Strine Jr. said Tyson's claims that IBP kept it in the dark about financial problems at an IBP subsidiary did not persuade him. He said Tyson "improperly terminated" its agreement with IBP and must go through with the deal. Strine said in the ruling that his only

Published on June 16, 2001, Page 16A, Wichita Eagle, The (KS)

Posted by open_eyes (anonymous) on January 30, 2008 at 4:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Here's more...

http://money.cnn.com/2001/06/15/deals/ty...

Posted by create (anonymous) on January 30, 2008 at 4:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Open_Eyes,

Good catch!!!

Can you see where I'm going with this? If Tyson had to be forced by a federal judge to complete the deal with IBP, then do you suppose they've just been waiting to cash in? There just seems to be more to this than meets the eye, especially now with rumors about the original severance package. Social consequences mean nothing to big business.

Posted by blulitespecial (anonymous) on January 30, 2008 at 4:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

open_eyes - Here's the some of rest of that court ordered takeover plan.They started the restructuring right away.Near as I can tell Tyson closed over 20 plants since then.Pretty much business as usual for them.Tyson closed plants-
Bentonville AR,Jackson MS,Detroit MI,Grand Rapids IA,Norfolk NE,West Point NE,Stillwell OK,Jackson FL,Portland ME,Manchester NH,Augusta ME,Pine Bluff AR,Oeilwin IA,Independence IA,Berlin MD,Bloomer AR,Boise ID,Pasco WA,and ‘most’ of Emporia KS.

Posted by morethenenough (anonymous) on January 30, 2008 at 5:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

just RUMORS....so dont take them and run........

FACTS-
TYSON in a business decision is laying off employees.

EMPLOYEES have been
GIVEN a 60 day notice as stated by Law with wages.

ALONG with a Severance package- determined BY LENGTH of employment.

RELOCATION assistance for grade levels 5 or higher
which include cash, truck rental ,boxes,gas,mileage reimbursements, interim living with lease/rental buyout.

Posted by eddison2 (anonymous) on January 30, 2008 at 5:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

open_eyes - Where do you get your information. Tyson has the right to restructure and end operations or modify operations as soon as they please (they upheld the law and provided notice as stated by the WARN ACT)... These employees affected by this will continue to recieve their pay and benefits until March 25th.. This is required by federal LAW....

SEVERANCE pay is ABOVE AND BEYOND the 60 days of wages and benefits....

Quit spouting off idiocity on these message boards.

Posted by eddison2 (anonymous) on January 30, 2008 at 5:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Tyson is infact ending second shift slaughter today and second shift processing as of Friday... trying getting accurate information...

http://www.tyson.com/Corporate/PressRoom...

Posted by open_eyes (anonymous) on January 30, 2008 at 5:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You're right, severence pay does not = 60 days wages & benefits. My bad.

I never said a single word about Tyson not being a business making business decision, nor did I say a single thing about relocation packages.

But, since you like to throw out more FACTS, here's some more for ya, and I'll even borrow some of your exact words:

just RUMORS....so dont take them and run........

FACTS-
Water is wet. It freezes when cold enough, and boils when hot enough.

But back to what I DID post about....

But I NEVER said anything about Tyson didn't didn't have the right to restructure and end operations as soon as they please. I SAID:

"And I also just heard that this is the last week for 2nd shift slaughter."

This is from the ORIGINAL press release:

"The last day of second shift production is scheduled to be on Tuesday, March 25, when both slaughter shifts and the second shift processing side will cease operations."

I'm no rocket scientist, but that leads me to believe that both slaughter shifts and the second shift processing will cease operations on March 25....

Now, this is the press release that just came out:

"Tyson officials had announced last week that the Emporia slaughter operation would close down within the next few weeks, eliminating 1,500 jobs at the plant. BUT second shift slaughter work will now end today, and second shift processing will end Friday."

Sounds like I "heard" pretty well, doesn't it? Also sounds like nobody expected it to end this soon, now, does it? First TYSON announced 2nd shift processing would END ON MARCH 25, now it's ending this Friday.
I never said they did anything illegal. I DID say it sounds like things have changed....

But, what do I know, I post something I hear, (directly from people within the plant that relayed it to me as soon as they were told) and I'm "spouting off idiocity".......

Ya know, I'm beginning to think everytime I post I should just post twice, so maybe people will read a little closer the 2nd time.

But my sincere thanks for (so nicley) pointing out my slip on the severance pay, oh holy non-idiocy-spouting one.

Posted by eddison2 (anonymous) on January 30, 2008 at 5:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

@ admireed - I understand what your saying, however sharing the burden is not asking for others to take a paycut IMHO.. I do think there will have to be some restructuring of the tax code for the city of Emporia along with the loss of these 1500 workers and families... but we wont know the true repercussions of this for another 3 to 6 months....

Posted by eddison2 (anonymous) on January 30, 2008 at 5:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

@open_eyes - Who gives a flying flip if they end today or March 25?? Tyson is going to do what is best for the restructure and prepare the plant for future operations... These employees will still recieve their pay and benefits up to that DATE. I think this is good it allows those affected employees to focus on what is at hand without the work getting in the way... They will be able to look / consider / prospect other job opportunities within the town and within Tyson... and they have adequate time to decide if they want to move to a different Tyson plant or stay for other opportunities here in EMPORIA...

When I come here to blurt new information I speak in facts not opinion (I really dont care where you "hear" your information) ... unlike the BS you spout... I too have affected people in my family by this perdicament thrown this towns way... Three members of my family are employed by Tyson and uncertain as of what the future holds for them...

Posted by open_eyes (anonymous) on January 30, 2008 at 5:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You're right, eddison2 - probably better they get laid off sooner, so they can get on with the business of focusing on another job.

I admitted I made a slip about the severence pay.

And I guess, according to you, hearing it directly from an employee who got the news officially straight from the company is just spouting BS, while you are the great bastion of facts. Fine. I really don't know why you're suddenly attacking what I posted so vehemently, apparently you have other issues or issues with other things that I've posted - then fine, attack those and vent some steam, if it makes you feel better.

I have friends and relatives affected by this too....... so chill out.

Nah, now that I think about it more, go ahead and vent on me. I still can't figure out what part of my post set you off so badly, other than the one I've already admitted I got mixed up, so I think calling my spouting idiocy and BS and all that probably really is therapeutic for ya.....

Posted by eddison2 (anonymous) on January 30, 2008 at 5:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

@open-eyes - Oh Im not bent on you I promise.. Federal law gives them 60 days whether they work or whether they sit on their asses after the company says we do not need you anylonger from the date of notification. I see this as a great opportunity to take the time to explore other options is all... I guess I am just fed up with the level of intelligence displayed on this forum and directed that at you.. I apologize.

Posted by open_eyes (anonymous) on January 30, 2008 at 6:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

eddison2, thanks and no problem.

This entire thing has been and is frustrating to say the least for many people, and devastating for a large group as well. I was just wondering, (and asked it on the other post), if the 60 days was from the date the layoffs were announced, or whether they would continue to receive pay/benefits for 60 days AFTER the layoff. It wasn't clear when I originally read the press release, but I think now it seems it was from the announcement date. Thanks for clearing that up.

Good luck and my condolences and sincere wishes for better days for all your family & friends affected, also.

Posted by eddison2 (anonymous) on January 30, 2008 at 6:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

@open-eyes - The pay will continue for 60 days at point of notification.. so that pay should end March 25... at point of termination the severance will kick in... hope that helps.

Posted by eddison2 (anonymous) on January 30, 2008 at 6:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I should say " will continue for 60 days FROM point of notification..."

Posted by open_eyes (anonymous) on January 30, 2008 at 6:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Thanks. I would assume then, that for drawing unemployment purposes, the date begins then also.