Posted by elplayero (anonymous) on August 20, 2007 at 4:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

For a critique of the Challenge Day corporation and its $3,000 all-day workshops check out:

http://w3.cultnews.com/?p=2201

I am an online reader from Naples, Florida. Challenge Day was banned in Naples after parents' complaints. The program is no longer being held at their former flagship school (Alhambra, High in Martinez, CA)
The 6.5-hour in school workshops are often mandatory - forcing young teens to miss an entire day of school - unless they opt out.
Teens are subjected to many hours of non-stop mind games that the Seattle Times has called "reminiscent of est or Lifespring" These young students often make public declarations about suicide, sexuality, etc. in the presence of classmates and up to 20 poorly screened volunteer adult "facilitators" Follow-up of the students who are most disturbed by the workshops is often spotty.
If you notice an aggressive push for the program, including unsubstantiated claims that seem too good to be true, consider the motivation. Each session with 100 students costs $3,000 plus expenses. A for profit company owns the trademarks and receives a fee for every workshop, book, t-shirt that is sold. In addition, students are recruited to join the "Be the Change" movement and possibly advanced training for a fee. It is sold as "free" because money is raised to pay for the workshops. Think of the cost of missing classes, extra psychologists and counselors. What about the risk of having 20 poorly screened adults discussing intimate topics with students in small groups (often hugging them.)
To the promoters of Challenge Day say thanks but no thanks. If they insist (and they will) then ask them why not hold the workshops off campus on a weekend or after classes. They will refuse. This program doesn't pass the smell test.

Posted by Doug (anonymous) on August 20, 2007 at 9:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

$9,000.00 plus expenses for two presenters for two days? This is Emporia. That's six months wages for some of us! WAKE UP EMPORIA!!

Posted by Emporia_Spartan (anonymous) on August 21, 2007 at 5:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Has this even been discussed at a School Board meeting? I would certainly hope that this would be investigated and cleared before fund raising begins. If it's so great, why isn't it being funded by the District? $9000 + is a lot of money to ask for from this community. Also--Why schedule this toward the end of the school year rather than at the beginning if it's supposed to make kids get along and build self-esteem? Three weeks before the end of school doesn't seem very well-planned. Everything I'm researching about Challenge Day raises red flags, and I would question my child being "locked in" and subjected to these techniques. I really want to investigate this idea more fully, and I urge the Board of Education to become involved also. The banning of the program in Naples, Florida, should make us all ask pertinent questions before spending the money and inviting outsiders into our schools. Too many "fads" inundate our schools and do more harm than good. Let's not be too quick to jump on the bandwagon without checking for successes and failures-- and checking on the banning.

Posted by jebenja (anonymous) on August 21, 2007 at 8:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yes, Wake up Emporia. How long do we as a community need to sit around and hide the fact that so many things are going on with our students. They are not sheltered here in this small town--they experience so many things that we as adults don't think they do. Yes, investigate but don't ever assume that talking about things in an open safe environment is bad or wrong. Wake up Emporia and start doing something that is good for our students for once. Maybe you should attend the community meeting and really find out what it is all about.

Posted by TheWatcher (anonymous) on August 21, 2007 at 9:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

jebenja, why didn't you answer the concerns that the previous posters had? Shouldn't something like this go through the scrutiny of a school board? Why are you wanting to close our children up in a room with all the windows covered and not even let them out for bathroom breaks? Why do you want to brainwash our children? Haven't you read the criticism of this cult program? These people only want our money and the opportunity to brain wash our children.

Posted by jebenja (anonymous) on August 22, 2007 at 11:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Like I said before, come to the parent meeting and ask those questions. No bathroom breaks? Come on, obviously the school that has had this program banned didn't do things the right way. When have you known anything to go through our school district without the approval of the board? It is not like the school board is being kept in the dark. There are teachers and other school personnel involved in this project. Have a little faith that our teachers and others invovled would be thoroughly trained to facilitate a great program. I won't address the other concerns of the last poster because they are not good concerns. When all the information is in and people take the time to actually attend the parent meeting and hear all the details there are no concerns.

Posted by Pollyanna (anonymous) on August 22, 2007 at 1:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

If you would like to see more of this program, go to www.challengeday.org and watch "Teen Files: Surviving High School". This is a program which has received national recognition and acclaim. It is about tolerance, acceptance, breaking racial barriers, stereotypes, addressing violence and bullying in our schools. ALL of which are present in our schools. Students gain an understanding of social oppression and are given opportunity to explore their own biases and experiences with all of the above issues. Students are not made to attend a Challenge Day, usually students are on waiting lists to be involved. It is something the students WANT to be involved in. This comes at an opportune time for Emporia, as Senate Bill 68 is requiring schools to take steps to define, address and create strategies and policies around bullying. Kansas schools must have this work done by Jan 1 2008. The Challenge Day Comminity Workshop will be held this weekend which will give a preview and offer strategies to 60 adults and teens in our area how to make Challenge Day not only a one time presentation, but to make lasting positive changes in our schools. Changes that puts ownership on students to create the kind of schools they desire. Schools where ridicule, violence, racism, and oppression is not an acceptable part of any students school experience. Booking Challenge Day to come to a school is often a year long wait due to the enormous response of schools needing and desiring this kind of education. Do not fear what you don't know about it, come to a parent meeting and listen and form logical, reasonable questions and make your decisions from there. I'd hate to see us lose a potential wonderful program because some are hesitant of something new.

Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on August 22, 2007 at 1:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The program does have its detractors, from the following link, for example:

http://w3.cultnews.com/?p=2201

Posted by MrCmonkeeDo (anonymous) on August 22, 2007 at 11:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Reminds MrC of an old song...let's see...how does it go?
Ummm...oh yeah; "Hey! Teachers! Leave them kids alone!"

See Ya...wouldn' wanna be Ya.

Posted by Doug (anonymous) on August 23, 2007 at 7:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Is this the same group that spoke at Boulder High School last April? Don't remember that? Google search Boulder High School Controversy! I'm sure they had the best interest of the kids in mind for a healthy pay check too!

Posted by Pollyanna (anonymous) on August 23, 2007 at 9:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Doug....

Maybe I'm looking at the wrong information but the Boulder HIgh School Controversy that I've found is regarding something called the Conference World Affairs Panel. That has nothing to do with Challenge Day.

Posted by elplayero (anonymous) on August 24, 2007 at 7:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin...

Polyanna, Check out this link to see what happened in Seattle. The students are a captive audience for recruitment into advanced training workshops – for a fee.
Just follow the money. They are asking for $9,000 dollars for two or three workshops of less than 100 students each. They may raise much more. In my town on Naples, Florida the Challenge Day promoters raised more than $30,000 for three workshops. Where does the money go? Are teachers or administrators being paid a “stipend” in exchange for their support of the workshops? Money changed hands in Naples.
Did the students who will participate in Emporia’s first workshops sign a consent form that allows the Challenge Day corporation to photograph, videotape and interview them? Such information has been used for promotional purposes in the past. (Consider the Oprah show where students talked of homosexuality, drug addiction and abuse – on national TV.)
Are parents aware that their children will be sharing private matters in a public (?national) forum?

If citizens do raise $9,000, why not offer the workshops in a place of worship or community center?

Posted by emporialifer (anonymous) on August 24, 2007 at 3:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

All the topics listed for this "Challenge Day" are not going to go away with one session. How can one really determine the success or failure of the program when you can't predict what could have or would have happened if they hadn't experienced "Challenge Day". $9,000 seems a little steep for this - I've seen business training sessions available for less than 1/3 of that amount. No offense to kids these days, but seriously, peer pressure, suicide, drugs, alcohol, bullying, etc. has been around FOREVER - so why is it such a big deal now? Have we really created a generation of cry baby whiners? We've all been there. Just thinking out loud. I can't imagine this day having a very good return on the investment.

Posted by Pollyanna (anonymous) on August 24, 2007 at 6:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Challenge Day events have been held in community centers and other places, not just in schools. My fear is that people are judging and criticizing this program with false infomation, rumors and nonsense. I can't speak to what happened in Naples Florida. What I can speak to is what I directly see with my eyes and my own experience. What I see and experience has been nothing but positive. Why is it wrong to bring to light in our school the damage and destruction oppression, racism, bullying can do? Don't we want something better for our kids and our community? Just because bullying has been around forever, it that right? Does that excuse someone for being violent and emotionally destroying another human? Since when does asking to be safe, protected and valued in our schools make us cry baby whiners? I think the point of Challenge Day is to bring to light all the "human-ness" in each of us, and to understand there is a better way to get through this world of ours. If we can understand where someone else is coming from and what shoes they've walked in, we can be more compassionate and value each other more. If kids are being real with themselves and each other, maybe they won't need to numb themselves with drugs and alcohol, or seek love in damaging relationships, or cut their skin to feel better, or contemplate the idea of hurting themselves or someone else, or drown in loneliness. Even if one day sparks an idea or a change or a new way for students to see each other and plan for ways to make their school better...why say no to that? A part of Challenge Day is planning to continue the momentum to forge for real change in a school. One session can be the spark to something bigger.

Posted by UserName (anonymous) on August 24, 2007 at 7:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't have a problem with the Challenge Day, as long as it's not during school hours and kids aren't forced/compelled to go.

However, if it IS during school hours, then kids will feel pressured to go, whether that pressure comes from their peers telling them they HAVE to go or they just aren't cool or whether that pressure comes from the students just wanting to get out of class.

I'm definitely against that.

So sure, have the Challenge Day at a nearby church or community center. Have it in the school AFTER HOURS. Nothing wrong with that.

Posted by Doug (anonymous) on August 24, 2007 at 8:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Maybe Cain should have gone to challenge day for Abel's sake.

Posted by Emporia_Spartan (anonymous) on August 25, 2007 at 12:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I agree that the state has mandated anti-bullying policies in our schools, but I don't think the legislators had this type of captive audience, high cost, low numbers approach in mind. I would urge the School District to look at the stipends that are paid to the community organizers and then question the sales pitches made to the students to buy merchandise and to attend future workshops (at fairly high costs in other cities). The kids doing the bullying will probably not want to attend, and we all know what happens when only a small number (100 of the 1500 at the high school) of students get to miss all day of school while the majority do not. My earlier question has also not been answered: why is this scheduled for late April when school is almost over? I will not be contributing to the plea for $9000. If it were the panacea that we need, the School Board would be sponsoring it. I urge Emporians to ask tough questions before opening your pocketbooks for $9000 for 200 students. It doesn't seem like a wise investment at this time.

Posted by jebenja (anonymous) on August 25, 2007 at 7:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I guess Emporia doesn't believe that a small group of people can make a change. Shame on you all! Well, I for one refuse to be one that sits around while our young students are in pain and suffering. In fact, I know a lot of adults that are still suffering in thier pain of childhood. I will not sit around and watch our students cut themselves, use alcohol and drugs to numb thier pain, have sex looking for someone to love them or hurt others because they don't know how to express the anger that they are feeling. I WILL be an agent of change. Maybe I won't change Emporia, but I can change the life of the young people around me. Just image if all the adullts (as wise as we should be about life) could show love to a young person around us. To make them feel like they and the things they are going through are important, think about the future leaders and community members we help shape. NOW think about if we as adults do the opposite, we don't show them love and tell them that the things they feel and the things that they are going through don't matter and hey, we have all been through it, suck it up and quite being cry-baby whiners--that is the future community that we get. Huh kinda like we got now.

Posted by UserName (anonymous) on August 25, 2007 at 9:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Jebenja, the issue here is NOT whether or not adults want to help make a positive impact on our children's lives. I believe most of us do want to do what's best for our children.

The issue is the method that is being proposed.

Locking a small group of children in a room with a bunch of strangers during school hours is NOT the way to go and definitely sounds suspicious to me.

But again, if a group wants to try the Challenge Day, then please do so. Just don't do it during school hours.

Instead of the "shame on you all" comments, why not try a more positive approach? Since you are so adamant that you WILL be an agent of change, I'm guessing that you are a volunteer for the local Big Brothers/Big Sisters organization? Maybe you volunteer to work with the young people at your church? Or maybe you volunteer with SOS or TFI? Or do you attend PTA meetings or volunteer to help out in the classroom? Are you a mentor for a disadvantaged youth? Maybe you volunteer with a local boy scout/girl scout troop?

If you answer YES to ANY of those questions, then I agree - you really WILL be an agent of change.

But if the only solution you can think of is to lock our children into a room with a bunch of strangers when they should be in class, then I'm afraid I can't support that solution.

Posted by TheWatcher (anonymous) on August 25, 2007 at 5:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I want to know if the two teachers (or any administer in the Emporia School District) will be receiving any money for this. If yes, then it appears that something may be wrong. Can someone answer this question for me?

Posted by Emporia_Spartan (anonymous) on August 25, 2007 at 9:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Parents should be the agent of change referred to by jebenja. If there is parent involvement and concern, these students more than klikely won't be "cutting, drinking, etc." The key is respect, supervision, and love from the very beginning. Challenge Day is one of those fads that people latch onto because they are desperate for help, and these people make all kinds of promises about results-- without documentation. I think the fact that some school districts have banned the group raises a huge red flag. I object to my teenage daughter being locked in a room with strangers and encouraged to hug and sit on the laps of adults-- 1/3 of whom are supposed to be adult males. I will be interested to hear a report on the Girl Scout lockup this weekend with this group. Our teens that are hurting need one-on-one help and guidance, not a public forum to air problems and dirty laundry. Many of the questions the students are asked will be embarrassing and should be dealt with privately. Check out the connection of Challenge Day with the sex workshops sponsored by HAI, with some of the HAI leaders on the Challenge Day Board of Directors. Parents are responsible for protecting our children; that's all I'm trying to do!

Posted by Denise_Dorcey (anonymous) on August 27, 2007 at 7:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I participated in the workshop this weekend and am a member of the Challenge Day community here in Emporia. I did not experience any of the situations mentioned in earlier posts and disagree with the opinion offered in the Seattle Times.

I am baffled at the notion that reaching out to others in love and acceptance can be a bad thing to do. Love and acceptance of one's neighbor is the message of Christ, of Ghandi, of Martin Luther King and others who have spoken out to make the world a better place.

Please consider coming to Emporia High School July 6, at 7 PM, to meet fellow community members and to learn more about what Challenge Day really is.

Posted by create (anonymous) on August 27, 2007 at 9:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"I won't address the other concerns of the last poster because they are not good concerns." (jebenja, 8/22) Sounds like I'm reading Animal Farm. The concerns of the previous poster were indeed legitimate, jebenja. Why won't you address them? When this many red flags go up, there's no such thing as "not good concerns." And don't tell us we should be ashamed; we have a right to question spending $9,000 plus expenses for two presenters for two days for a program that is being reported as being controversial. And these "community volunteers" the article speaks of, will there be background checks on those people?

Posted by create (anonymous) on August 27, 2007 at 9:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I read the article at http://w3.cultnews.com/?p-2201 and this pops out:

"The Challenge Day corporation charges approximate $3,000 per school - plus expenses. And some of that money was used to pay a stipend to a faculty “coordinator” whose job was to perpetuate the program at his or her school.

School administrators or teachers can actually make money by hosting a Challenge Day!

After discovering that local Challenge Day boosters had paid school officials to host the program last year, the Collier County school district required that such funds should be distributed through the payroll system. In addition, the school district made a recommendation that if the program was to continue, all sources of funding should be disclosed to the district.

Instead, the school board chose to put a permanent hold on the program. "

This is beginning to really stink! How about it school board, have you looked into this yet?

Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on August 27, 2007 at 10:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I think that what some are objecting to is not that one person or a few can effect positive change, but whether or not the sponsors of Challenge Day are as positive as they would have us believe. Media outlets like those in Seattle, the Denver area, and school districts in places like Florida have asked the tough questions and have not gotten satisfactory answers.

The question of why it should cost $9000 for two preceptors is valid. The question of why Challenge Day should use the school instead of some other meeting hall is valid. The question of why there don't seem to be any valid measurements on the effectiveness of the program other than some questionable personal testimonies is valid. The question of what costs participants will incur if they enroll in programs beyond the initial one is valid. And the question of whether or not local Challenge Day recruiters are getting bonuses of some sort is valid.

It doesn't help when Challenge Day proponents attempt to villify anyone who questions. The folks who have questions love their kids and love their communities. To make questioning Challenge Day tantamount to rejecting a message of love is, frankly, offensive.

Posted by Denise_Dorcey (anonymous) on August 27, 2007 at 2:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I am sorry my message was taken as being offensive or to villify anyone. This is not the spirit it was given in. I apologize to those offended.

Unfortunately, blogs, emails and other impersonal forms of information can present in a way which was not intended.

Given this, I again suggest everyone with any concerns or interest in the Challenge Day program attend information night at Emporia High School, August 6 at 7 PM.

Talk to as many people as you can so that you can make an informed decision for yourself and your family.

Thank you.

Posted by Pollyanna (anonymous) on August 27, 2007 at 4:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I'll only defend what I know and have seen first hand. I've read so many times people saying kids are locked in a room..I've got no idea where that came from. We had over 50 people this weekend receiving the training...guess what there were NO locks on doors! There was no inappropriate touching. There were no "bunches of strangers" putting crazy thoughts in our minds. If Emporia is lucky enough to receive this program, the people who would be with the kids going through Challenge Day are parents who are interested, other teachers, counselors and/or those of us who have been to the community workshop and can help support the training. All of whom are either parents, teachers or counselors. As for the stipend, I've been on the committee for months and haven't received a penny nor has there been any discussion of that. Bring your great questions to our Community Night and I hope they will be answered. I also urge you to speak to those who have been through this firsthand instead of posters who have never been to a Challenge Day event and follow wherever Challenge Day goes to write negative comments. If you trust your community, there are over 50 people or so who can tell you what it is about, what they got from it and how they think it could be a good thing for our students. Trust us! this is our community too! These are our kids we want to support!

Posted by elplayero (anonymous) on August 27, 2007 at 5:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

LOCKED IN is how some participants FEEL. This is how one reporter described her experience when she was a student:

“Everything was going fine until a middle-aged man intercepted one of my hugs and wrapped me in a tight embrace, hands rubbing up and down my back. ... As a 16-year­old girl trapped in an uncomfortable hug with an older man, I began to wonder if this day could get worse. It did…I begrudgingly returned to the gym for what was by far the most horrible activity of the day - an activity called “cross the line.”...Maybe it's just me, but I'm not comfortable sharing the worst moments of my life by crossing a line in front of 300 people...Finally we stopped for lunch, which I saw as my chance to escape. No such luck. We were each paired up with a stranger with whom to eat lunch and share our life stories. I was paired with a woman in her mid-40s who had abandoned her children to move to New York and had just recently returned to the Bay Area to reconnect. Stuck with her, it was obvious I wouldn't be able to get away, so I sat and listened to her story of guilt. She talked the entire 30 minutes we were given for lunch while I sat there thinking “This is supposed to help me in some way?"
Exhausted from my lunch partner's sob story, I begrudgingly returned to the gym for what was by far the most horrible activity of the day - an activity called “cross the line."

These INSTRUCTIONS are from the Challenge Day manual:

A. Secure a private room -It must be free from interruptions for the duration of the Challenge Day program.

B. Windows below eye level in the room must be covered

C. 6-1⁄2 hours (including lunch) is the ideal amount of time for a Challenge Day.

D. There is one short bathroom break during the morning and a 20-30 minute working lunch break (over which students eat together and are given assignments that help them get to know each other).

E. It is ideal for bathrooms to be located inside or just outside the room.

E. Lunch will be held inside the room where the program is being conducted.

F. Participants (including Adult Volunteer Facilitators) will be asked to remain on site. No exceptions.

MY SUGGESTIONS:
Offer the program on a WEEKEND (like the recent Emporia workshop for 40 adults and 20 girls at $300 each -$18,000 total)

Or
Offer the program after class over two or three days (2 hours each day)
Or-If the principals INSIST on hosting this controversial workshop:

1-HOUR LUNCH BREAK away from the Challenge Day leaders with the option of returning to class with other students – a BAIL OUT OPTION

Fingerprint and background check all paid employees and adult volunteers.

Posted by Ilovekids (anonymous) on August 27, 2007 at 6:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I participated in the workshop this weekend, and I can tell you there was NO LOCK IN. Bathroom breaks were scheduled about every 2 hours, BUT if you needed to go more than that, you could. We did sit together at lunches, I don't think specific assignments were given over lunch, other than get to know each other. Every exercise that was offered we were ALWAYS told that we were "in choice", in other words if you didn't want to participate you didn't have to participate,. The walk across the line was no exception. If you didn't want people to know something, you didn't have to step across the line. We were told at the begining of each day "ask permission if you want to give someone a hug. Respect their NO if they don't want a hug" Personally, I felt this weekend was well worth the money we spent. I learned some very valuable skills, and gained not only insight into myself, but also gained self confidence. I will never forget the people in my groups, and all those who participated this weekend. Our communities need to feel more connection, more love, and more acceptance. One comment was that bullying has been going on for a long time........ so has murder, but we would all try to prevent a murder if we could. How is the murder of our young peoples' soul and self esteem any less important. Come to the community meeting on Sept 6. Ask the questions you need answered. Everyone needs to make informed decisions, based on facts, not rumors.

Posted by Denise_Dorcey (anonymous) on August 27, 2007 at 7:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

At the workshop here last weekend, everyone was given the option several times during the day whether they were able to continue or wished to opt out with no shame, no criticism. Many, including myself, took little breaks (to opt out), when needed. There was no notice of it at all.

In EVERYTHING that happened during the workshop, each individual had the choice whether to participate or not. The facilitators announced this before each activity. No one was forced to do anything they did not want to do or felt uncomfortable with. Choice is what this whole thing is about...

Emporians, please come to the information meeting and decide for yourselves.

Posted by elplayero (anonymous) on August 27, 2007 at 8:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

So it’s agreed then...
The weekend option seems to work.
Let the students opt in like you did on a Saturday or Sunday. CHOICE, right? Bathroom every 2 hours -GREAT.
Only the highly motivated will participate. Success will be more likely.

WHY DOES THIS NEED TO BE IN SCHOOL?

Ilovekids, do you really think $18,000 dollars was "worth it" for the 20 students who participated? I can think of better uses for that money (and for the 240 volunteer man-hours that each workshop will require.)

By the way, would it bother you to know that all of the money from last weekend's training may have gone to a for-profit California corporation owned by the founders of Challenge Day -not to the non-profit with the same name?

Were any of you solicited to participate in more advanced training -perhaps in California?

Have any of the adult participants in last weekend's training also participated in other workshops such as est, Lifespring or Landmark Forum?

They seem to have similarities to the Challenge Day workshops.

Some people find their answers in church, others in these workshops. Why does this group get a free pass to spend 6 hours with young teens -DURING SCHOOL?

Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on August 27, 2007 at 8:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The questions still need to be answered and they're not forthcoming. I believe that parents of school children have every right to ask them and to be skeptical of this program. Based on what's happened in other places, it does not have a good track record.

Posted by UserName (anonymous) on August 27, 2007 at 9:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Regarding the workshop over the weekend:

How many of the participants were adults who are used to making their own decisions?

How many of the participants were adults who are old enough and self-assured enough to resist peer pressure and leave ("opt out") when they felt like it?

You didn't feel locked in? Of course you didn't - you are an adult!

The students who participate are NOT adults used to making their own decisions. They are NOT self-assured enough to "opt out" when they feel uncomfortable. No matter how many times the facilitators tell them they can leave any time they want, the students WILL feel pressured to stay no matter how uncomfortable they feel.

So over 50 participants attended and had a great time? Wonderful! Glad you had a good time.

Again, I really don't have a problem with the Challenge Day concept or program. I DO have a problem with it being presented in school during school hours.

You want to teach the message of Jesus Christ? Fine, do it in a church. You want to teach about Ghandi or Martin Luther King? Fine, that's what history class is for.

I agree with ElPlayero 100% - raise your money and have your program, but have it on a weekend or after school, NOT during school hours.

Posted by Denise_Dorcey (anonymous) on August 27, 2007 at 9:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It needs to happen at the schools because that is where our teens are experiencing most of their hurt. They told us so.

Our young people need to know their school staffs care and want to make the school environment a safer and more nurturing place to learn and grow. Having it during school hours simply gives it as much importance as sporting events that take students away from classes.

But, you know, I feel like this blog talk could go on forever without those of you with questions feeling satisfied. And, believe me, I wish I could satisfy you all.

That is why I post this last time, please, please come to the open information meeting at EHS next week to voice your concerns to us face-to-face. Let's just sit down together and talk about it like humans beings do about things they care about.

Posted by create (anonymous) on August 28, 2007 at 8:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Have you considered other options to this Challenge Day? I do know that SOS has a program to offer. What might Emporia State offer through Visser Hall? Why must it be this particular and very expensive program that has to take place during school hours to a limited number of kids. You say that it needs to happen at school because that is where the hurt is happening. If it is true that therapy is best where the hurt is taking place, why do so many therapists have offices? I noticed you compared the time to do this with the time taken out of class for sporting events. Do you have a problem with kids who are involved with athletics? Finally, now that Kansas BOE has mandated bully programs to be in place by a certain date, is this Challenge Day to be an answer to that? Raise your money, offer your program, but not on school property and not during school hours.

Posted by Khristin (anonymous) on August 28, 2007 at 7:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I am a student from Emporia High school and I also attended Challenge Day this weekend. I think some of you underestimate us students. I have been beat down, had spit in my face, been made fun of, peer presured and even I knew that I didnt have to be there if I didnt wont to be. They only wont everyone to stay so nothing is missed and people shouldnt go in and out because it distracts the group from what is going on. Anyone could leave if they had/wonted to.
I and everyone else didnt have to pay anything this weekend. Honestly I cant believe everyone is fighting because of money over something that will make a diffrence in mine and my fellow classmates lives. I think that everyone should take a look around and see that things arnt like they used to be. I think that students like me should have a safe place to be able to talk to other students and share how we feel. Perticipating in that challenge day along side some of my teachers I feel safer knowing that there are teachers in our school that are willing to make a diffrence. The students that were there with me, I didnt know but it made me feel better knowing that I wasnt alone.
A student signs up for football, cheer, golf, baseball, debate, band, tennis, ect. They have to miss a lot of school and it costs a lot of money. "Comeing from someone(me) who is also involved in those things." They also "have to go" because if they dont then they will be kicked off the team and at the same time keep good grades. We try to introduce this one little program that will make a huge diffrence in many students as well as teachers and parents lives and everyone gets into an uproar!
As for locking us in, isnt that the high school? At EHS there are know windows, we cant see the sunlight, birds or storm clouds just the plain walls from 8 in the morning until 2:50pm.
There was something said about parent involvment, as much as we would all like that to happen, unfortunitly it doesnt. Not all parents are concerned about there child and what the child is dealing with or going through in there life and I believe that is part of the problem. Kids need to have a safe place to go where they feel loved and acepted for who they are.
If we did have a program like one of the others mentioned above I'm sure someone would disagree with that one too.
I think that everyone should join together, "Be the change." Give us kids the suport and love we deserve. If the program does happen to be a mistake, then you can have something to complain about, because honestly how can things get any worse. There are people cutting, drinking and druging, hurting others and many other horible things and you all are afraid of some harmless hugs and being in a closed room with people who are suporting us.
Come to the meating on Sept. 6 and I will tell you the story of how Challenge Day has saved my life already and its only been 2 days. Thanks

Posted by Denise_Dorcey (anonymous) on August 28, 2007 at 8:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Be the change, Khristin!!!! Be the change.

Posted by jebenja (anonymous) on August 28, 2007 at 8:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Diddo--Come to the meeting and let's have a real discussion! Khristin , you are the change.

Posted by elplayero (anonymous) on August 29, 2007 at 5:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Khristin, Thanks for your input. Adults hog the discussion. Student input is very valuable. It seems that Challenge Day worked for you.

Any suggestions to improve the workshops for other students?

How did the other student participants feel?
Was anybody upset or in tears during or after the workshops?
What is Be the Change? Is that a club?
Do you share e-mail addresses or phone numbers with Be the Change?
Did Challenge Day or Be the Change invite students or adults to participate in future workshops? (Perhaps in California?)
Was there any hugging of the adult volunteers? Was there any other physical contact?
Where did these adults come from?
Did some come from out of town? (Or out of the state?)

Posted by Khristin (anonymous) on August 29, 2007 at 11:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"Be the Change" is just a saying we have, it means something like "It starts with you," its ok to change. The other students and I have become very close and we all feel the same about the program. We are here for eachother and have become very good friends. There were a lot of tears but in a good way. We all took a look at our lives and how we had been living them and yes at times it got a little emotional, but as we learned its ok to feel and cry. Everyone there except the 2 facilitators were from here. Yes there was hugs but nothing inapropriate, hugs were given for people to know that others understand and suport them not in a creepy touchy feely way, "and trust me I wouldnt let someone be touchy feely."

Posted by UserName (anonymous) on August 30, 2007 at 7:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hmmm.....a few people have attended a session and now they are chanting, "Be The Change"...."Be The Change"...."I WILL be an agent of change..."

Does any one else find that just the slightest bit creepy? Not a brainwashing program. Not a cult.

Is that what the program does? Turn the participants into zombies who chant "Be The Change"?

Khristin, the type of experience you are describing belongs in a licensed therapist's office, NOT IN A SCHOOL.

Are the student participants required to get their parents' permission in writing to attend? Are the parents provided written information that includes the FACT that this program has some controversy surrounding it?

Posted by Khristin (anonymous) on August 30, 2007 at 11:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Actually I disagree with you because all that "crap" happens at school and I was once afraid to go to school because I was beat up and made fun of, know I did not develop a psycological problem because of it but its school it should be a safe place to go. I think any topic mentioned someone will disagree with it.

Are you a parent? If so have you asked your kid(s) how they feel about school? Have they or you ever been bullied or been the bully? Parents were told what was going on and yes we had to have their permission. They were even asked to participate with us in the past weekends challenge day. My mom didn’t happen to attend but she understands what has gone on and she has been sitting by my side every night as I read the negativity from these blogs to her while trying to promote a positive program that will help many students who are hurting.

I have never wonted something so bad in my life. I think this is a great program and I think if we give it a chance it will work. If it is brain washing to make people not cut themselves, drink and drug, fight, or other harmful things then I think that’s some dang good brain washing and I think we all need to be brain washed. I feel better and I feel that this program works and if that makes me crazy or zombie like then fine that in my opinion is better than being a victim of violance.

Posted by Khristin (anonymous) on August 30, 2007 at 11:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Another point I wont to make is the reason we want to bring a program like this one here is to teach people not to be so judgmental. Everyone’s different in there own way and I thought being happy over trying to change a negative way of life and to help others in a positive way was a good thing. I think that if we all would think more positive about all aspects of our lives then the world would be an all together better place to live. We wouldn’t have so many sex offenders, abusive spouses, gangs, suicides, homicides and other heart-aches because all of those people were once kids. Just something to think about!

Posted by create (anonymous) on August 31, 2007 at 8:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Khristin, hearing you say, "I have never wanted something so bad in my life," is troubling to say the least. This smacks of something that is habit forming, or somehow narcotic.That's why some of us are suggesting brainwashing.

Yes, Khristin, you're right when you say we all would think more positive...then the world would be an all together better place to live, but that's the naive view. Sex offenders, abusive spouses, gangs and crime in general do not stem from one source of having been bullied as youngsters.

I'm with UserName on this, especially with regard to the chanting of "Be the change, etc." That is a definite red flag, and it has revealed itself right in these forum posts. The controversial aspects of this program still outweigh the benefits.

Finally, if this much "crap" is going on at the middle school, then we need to investigate that campus closely. Are those adults in that school doing what is expected of them? Are they indeed keeping their eyes open? I can't believe this much "crap" goes on without adults in charge knowing who the crappers are. Yeah, yeah, I know, kids who bully can be covert, but I do believe their identities are known. Yes, and parents do protect them too with their "not my kid" lip service. But I digress.

If the "crap" is that deep, victims need to seek professional counseling. Maybe we need to raise money for a team of professional counselors to provide some real services instead of this. What's next, $25 T-shirts? Again, this chanting is a real red flag.

Another concern is that only a few get to be involved in such a program. If that much "crap" is going on, maybe the entire student bodies of both schools need to be involved in some kind of program, just not this one. Kansas has mandated that a bully prevention program be developed at every district. That means for ALL STUDENTS, not just a few.

Questioning this program is just healthy skepticism, and that is a good thing. When you always agree with others, that becomes your prison. Choose your jailers carefully.

Does anyone remember some of those kids who used to attend the Way College? I was a young waitress at a local restaurant then, and I remember their blank stares and unusually strong desire for sugar on Saturday mornings, the only day they were allowed into town.

Posted by citizen (anonymous) on August 31, 2007 at 2:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Has anyone considered that we have four intelligent psychologist, socialologist, social workers at the Middle School right now? Why not raise 3000.00 and give it to them to put on a program. One day in the Fall and one day in the Spring. The have degrees in this field and work with kids and the school environment everyday. I believe this would be better suited for the kids then a couple of faith healers and motivational speakers with no degrees. Remember, the people who started this do not even have a Ph.D.

Posted by elplayero (anonymous) on August 31, 2007 at 4:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Citizen and Create. Great posts. However, try raising $27,000. That is the total of the recent Next Step (in which 20 girls participated) and the $9,000 that has been published as the estimated cost of the April 2008 Challenge Days at Emporia High and Emporia Middle.

You can buy anything these days -including a Ph.D.
Sometimes they have a Ph.D. and sometimes they don't. Check out Rich Dutra, the founder of Challenge Day, at the following link.

http://www.agpa.org/mtgs/2006_annmtg/200...

Does he still have his Ph.D. or was that a mistake?

Ph. D. or not, they are smart people. They made more last weekend in Emporia than most Ph.Ds make in a month.
How do I sign up?

Posted by UserName (anonymous) on August 31, 2007 at 4:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Group therapy should ONLY be carried out by licensed professionals in an approved setting. As Citizen has already said, the schools already have trained, LICENSED counselors on staff. Why not make use of them?

Khristin, you said, "My mom didn’t happen to attend but she understands what has gone on and she has been sitting by my side every night as I read the negativity from these blogs to her while trying to promote a positive program that will help many students who are hurting. I have never wonted something so bad in my life."

If these terrible things are happening to you and your mother knows about it, has she ever tried to intervene? Has she ever tried to arrange counseling for you? Has she talked to your teachers and your school counselors?

You ask if I am a parent? Yes. I am a parent. I have children in high school, middle school, and and in elementary school. I talk to them daily. I know what's going on in their life. I know them well enough to be able to tell when something is bothering them. I give them the tools, the love, and support they need in order to cope.

Let me ask all of you Challenge Day people something, and I ask that you give me an honest, straight answer.

Are the parents and kids attending these "sessions" the ones that need help or are the students doing the bullying the ones that need help? Is it the "victims" or the bullies the ones who need to change their behavior?

Tell me: How is teaching these kids to smile, hug, cry their problems out to each other and chant "Be the change" going to make the bullies change their behavior? How many of the bullies do you expect to attend?

I'm sure the group hug thing made all the participants feel good and they will probably feel good for a week or two. Maybe a month or two. And I'm sure the motivational speakers talked up a good program and made lots of promises about how THEIR program is the ONLY program that can help these poor kids.

THAT'S WHAT MOTIVATIONAL SPEAKERS DO!

But if you really think such a program is going to make a long-term difference, I think you are deluding yourselves.

I would say again, have your program. Do as you wish. Just don't do it during school when students are supposed to be in class.

One final thought - several have mentioned students missing class due to school sports. I certainly wasn't aware of this. Are students really pulled out of class to play sports? Or are the practice sessions held AFTER class? If it's during class, I am totally against that, too.

Posted by create (anonymous) on August 31, 2007 at 5:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm guessing that on game days, when games are played away from home and players have a long bus ride, they are sometimes pulled out of class early to get to the other venue on time.

Posted by Khristin (anonymous) on August 31, 2007 at 5:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Have any of you ever had a dream. Have you ever wished you got a chance to make that dream come true? I think that is the best part. The people who started this program are "normal" everyday people who started out on a dream and made it into a program that has helped hundreds of people already. When we did challenge day not only were there teachers, parents and students, there were also drug and alcohol, school, and mental health counselors, social workers, daycare providers, executive directors, development specialists, and many other people who are involved in children’s lives every day. Them being there shows that they are willing to try something new to help out.

Obviously everything that has been introduced into the schools so fare isn’t working very well. The reason I said "I've never wonted something this bad before" is because I am excited to have something this great introduced to the school. I know this program will work if we give it a chance. I am very sad about the things that are going on in schools and I care about the people that are being hurt. Taking those people to the psychologist isn’t going to stop the bullying and the other harmful things that are happening every day. If we target a big enough group then they can spread the word to at least one other person. If you do the math, lets say 100 people go through this program and they all spread it on to at least 1 other person that’s 200 people then each one of those 100 can spread it on to at least one more person then we have 300 all together, see how that could make a huge difference. It’s a pass it on. Let us learn how to teach each other.

So you see times have changed, its time to make a difference and try something new. Be the change; make a difference in someone’s life like someone has made a difference in mine. Remember it could be a pass it on, try smiling at someone tomorrow because I guarantee that person smiles at someone else because you have reached out and smiled and made their day a little better and then that person smiles to another person and it is passed on from there. If that does happen, doesn’t that make you feel happy knowing that you could have just made someone’s day? Now think of how "we" feel and how all we are trying to do is pass it on but instead of making someone’s day better we could possibly be making someone’s life better.

Posted by makingadifference (anonymous) on August 31, 2007 at 6:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

im with khristin on EVERYTHING she says. i actually met her at challenge day.. she is now one of my best friends who i know isnt talking smack behind my back and is actually there for me and loves me deeply. and if being "brainwashed" means getting to know the real person inside instead of judging them on what they wear, what they say, or what they do then.. hell i would love to brainwash people. it opens your eyes and see how the world is today. it isnt such a good place like everybody thinks it is anymore. school shootings, suicides, murders, all that kind of stuff is going on.. and most people dont think a thing about it or even act on it. **NOTICE CHOOSE ACT** and us challenge day people are trying to make a difference in everybodys life so there is less to even none of that. its my dream now to change people's lives and to have them open their eyes and see how loving people can be.. especially to each other and not to just the people we love the most.. not only loving but trusting, honest, respectful and happy. i found the real me over that weekend and ive never been happier in my life. have you ever been happy, like honest to God happy? i know that i sure the hell am.. my life couldnt be better and im a junior in high school. i make a statement at my school, i am recognized when people see me, not because of me being bullied or me bullying other people but just by loving and caring about everybody. do you make a statement in your community, school, work environment, or anywhere you walk?
think about it..

Posted by MisterO (anonymous) on March 28, 2008 at 7:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Well, apparently this is still on....my child brought home a letter from the school saying, "Congratulations, your student has been selected to represent your school/community in the Challenge Day Program!"

The letter also says, "I further understand that Challenge Day and the sponsoring school/organization, its officers, employees or agents assume no liability either directly or indirectly for injury or accident resulting from or in any way connected with this event..."

If this is such a good program, why do they need such a broad waiver of responsibility?

I can't even begin to say how AGAINST this nonsense I am!

Posted by mrsflee (anonymous) on March 28, 2008 at 8:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)

THIS is not what I call help at the price OF $$$ its taking to fund.....Training begins at home,,,,,,,CARE, LOVE and outreach......TEACHERS that have a heart, parents that are involved....MY daughter received a INVITATION also and I CHOOSE not to submit her to strangers and a program that puts a focus on a "chosen" few......

Posted by equalrights (anonymous) on March 28, 2008 at 8:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

How is this a bad thing? Teaching respect? Talking about violence?
I just don't understand what you, as parents, are worried about? No, I'm not a parent. I'm a college student, but also a member of this community. And as a member of this community that thinks Emporia could use a little more respect, less violence, and positive attitudes. I'm not trying to be rude either, I really am curious as to why you are opposed to this?

Posted by Pollyanna (anonymous) on March 28, 2008 at 9:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Many programs or events at school have a waiver. Why is the pot getting stirred up again??? If you don't want your kid to go through the program, don't send them! Easy as that! There are plenty of kids who will benefit from the event. Several posters here are or have been acting like this is some witchcraft brainwashing seminar... it's ridiculous. People from our community have mentioned many times and tried to address the fears or ignorance of others who are opposed. Your kids will not be surrounded by strangers. I think parents are also invited to attend, so how can you say your child would be in the hands of strangers? This prgram is good. I encourage those here to trust your community, your administrators, counselors, teachers and parents who are yelling from the mountaintops this is a positive thing!

Posted by starfire (anonymous) on March 28, 2008 at 10:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Equalrights:

I believe in teaching about respect and violence and such too.

However, this is not what challenge day is.

Imagine being 12 or 13 years old and being highly encouraged to tell a room full of 100 strangers your deepest and darkest secrets. Lets say you do it ... you are in the moment and you tell a room full or a group full of people you don't know you can trust, your secrets. Would you trust a group of 12 and 13 year olds to keep your secrets and not tell others or not use them against you if they got mad? I sure would not!!

Challenge day is grounds for mass amounts of further "rumors" and sharing information with people that may or may not, do bad things with what they find out that day.

I would NOT let my child participate in this.

It has the possibility to be good and it also has the possibility to do some serious emotional damage to very young people.

Posted by Pollyanna (anonymous) on March 28, 2008 at 10:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Starfire

Have you attended a Challenge Day event? Have you seen it first hand or are you assuming you know what Challenge Day is or isn't? It's offensive to those who have gone through it to have you say something like "that's not what Challenge Day is about.." I have been through it personally and my only regret is that there wasn't something like this at my school when I was in middle school/high school.

Posted by create (anonymous) on March 28, 2008 at 11:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Time to revisit this article:

http://www.cultnews.com/?p=2201

Too many red flags.

Posted by glarson (Gwen Larson) on March 28, 2008 at 11:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Also time to take the conversation elsewhere:

http://www.emporiagazette.com/forums/ope...

Posted by neighbor (anonymous) on March 28, 2008 at 11:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I am a parent, of two teen age daughters. I would be very disappointed in the school board and school administration if they allowed such a program access to my children. My kids do not go to Emporia schools, but if they did, they would not be allowed to be involved with a program such as this. The company is offering the program for profit, not to address bullying and compassion for kids. The program is luring the sponsoring teachers with a stipend, money that they cannot get from the school board for other programs and events. The program targets kids that are the victims(very vulnerable) of the bullies and criminal activities instead of the perpetrators of the acts. Those aggressive kids will not be there.

Yes Create, I remember "The Way" students, desperate vulnerable kids that fell for a sales pitch, a belief, and way to get out of their current life style by paying someone else, doing what they were told to do(including mass weddings)and submitting themselves to isolation and brain washing.