Posted by madpoet (anonymous) on September 24, 2008 at 8:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Does Zimmerman ever drive over there in that area? Sounds like his typical clueless rhetoric. Just like Amtrack would bring tourists to Emporia from KC. Yeah, sure. I am appalled that he was the best they could find for city manager. I realize the retailers want to stay close to other stores but with all the traffic up by Eagle Crest Drive area, Graphic Arts Road isn't that far off the beaten track. I see no problems with putting houses or even apartment buildings in that location. But a commercial development would just cause way too much traffic. That is a horrible intersection anyway. Traffic often backs up there now when school is in session. I don't want to think how bad it would be with people trying to get in and out of a parking lot off 24th. Plus you have kids that walk along 24th to get to and from school. And I've seen the kids doing their daily runs along there too. You add more traffic to 24th and you put those kids at risk. I suggest Zimmerman and the city commissioners sit at that intersection for a few days and watch the foot and vehicle traffic before they make their decision.

Posted by prettyblues (anonymous) on September 24, 2008 at 9:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I agree madpoet...here's my two cents "why in the world do we need another lumber company here in emporia??" We have Mark II, Bluestem, Sutherlands....isnt's that enough???Come on Emporia were only a town of around 30,000, were not Topeka were not Wichita!!! Just like the pizza place, do we need another "Pizza Ranch" right beside Pizza Hut??? My goodness..how many pizza; places does that make in this town..ahhh...10 i think. Come on Area Planning Commission, lets think what Emporia has before we start just voting and bringing other big time businesses in here and sending those businesses that have been here for many years away!!!

Posted by ozland (anonymous) on September 24, 2008 at 9:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

You shold have heard how Larie Schoap talked down to the citizens of Emporia. Who does she thing she is-we don’t need her to blame us. Thanks to all who came out and told Zimmerman the truth.The City did not make all the meetings and information known and available until we had to voice our concerns. Looks to me like our Zoning Board needs to be watched like a hawk. I will not do business with Schoap after last night.

Posted by liveinetown (anonymous) on September 24, 2008 at 9:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I guess no one has been to pittsburgh kansas? The have a tru valu smaller than ours, they have a southerlands that's smaller and crappier than ours and have farm supply stores like ours and after Home Depot came in a few years back those stores are still in buisness so quit writing its going to hurt those buisiness! Do we want to become a city bigger than 30,000? Well its got to start with getting big box stores! Anyone that has said they haven't went topeka, kansas city or witchita to buy something at lowes or home depot is lying!

Posted by create (anonymous) on September 24, 2008 at 9:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

If "“Stores want to be where stores are,”" what about the eventual congestion? Customers will finally get so disgusted with fighting traffic and crowds that they won't go as often.

I agree with prettyblues. We are not Topeka or Wichita. There's something about a small town that is much more special than those big, congested areas. We need to keep and support our own smaller home-town businesses like Waters and Mark II and Sutherlands and Hill's Appliance who have stayed here, paid taxes without benefit of incentives, and been our good neighbors for a long time.

Posted by cheerup (anonymous) on September 24, 2008 at 10:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

To me this area near 24th is the best spot. We don't have a fraction of the traffic on this 3 block strip that is on Wannamaker in Topeka or 119th in KC. The Planning Commission is wanting the builder to build across from our schools on Graphic Arts. And also how will the traffic get from Industrial to Graphic Arts. The only way is going right by both the schools out there. The Planning Commission sure dropped the ball on this one. I can't believe anyone will support putting a Lowes across the street from our schools. What a mess that would be.

Posted by methusla (anonymous) on September 24, 2008 at 10:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

What I would like to know is, who will benefit the most from a Lowes or a restaurant or for that matter any retail business locating in Emporia at the present time, given the state of the present economic turmoil in Emporia and the U.S., I believe that without a substantial payroll base for future retail businesses to depend on to support their businesses the only ones who will benefit from all this speculation, are the land owners who own the land that these developers want to develope, that includes not only the parcel of land at 24th and industrial, but the land west of industrial, whoever owns that land.
What we as Emporia taxpayers need to ask Christies, Lowes, the City Manager and City Commissioners is, if this developement takes place, no matter which location it is approved for, will it lower the tax burden of each and every individual, Emporia citizen taxpayer, I sincerely doubt it !
Has anyone asked Christies, Lowes, the City Manager or the City Commissioners, what the starting, median and top pay for working for Lowes is or would be !
Also has everyone forgotten the trouble that IBC is having just trying to stay afloat and survive ! My son works at NIM and told me even their orders for products has decreased drastically in the past few weeks ! Does anyone know why the Bio-diesel plant project was put on hold or suspended, Why has nothing been done with the old Modine property, would there be any objections from Lowes, Christies or the citizens of Emporia if Lowes located at this location, after all the Modine complex and property is pretty good sized and Lowes may not have to spend as much money to convert this building complex and property to meet their needs.
What about the old Big Lot ( Kmart) building, I believe it has about 30,000 sq. ft.
I believe that there are still a lot of things to be considered, options to think about and questions that need to be answered before any decision on future developements of any kind should be considered and approved.
I am going to be honest here, the present state of the economy, both national and local as well as what is happining on Wall Street and the proposed $ 700 billion dollar bail out of mismanaged banks and business has me very worried (scared) about the future of everone.
This is the main reason why I believe that Emporia needs to excersize caution and wait to push for any kind of developement that may hurt rather than benefit all of Emporias citizens.

Posted by rmbcollege (anonymous) on September 24, 2008 at 11:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I understand that the US economy is in shambles right now, but I don't understand why so many people are opposed to change. I understand that people do not like change and maybe that is why, but for Lowe's to come in it would create more jobs for people who are out of work. I am not saying that I like the location that they have picked for the site, and think that they could maybe utilize the empty buildings around town such as Modine or Big Lots, but change is not always as bad as everyone thinks it is.

The real example that I have for this is the round about that was put in a few years ago.

Posted by create (anonymous) on September 24, 2008 at 11:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

rmb, It's not that I don't like change. I welcome change that makes sense. I do not welcome change that will cut the throats of other nearby businesses who have stayed in Emporia and paid property taxes without help for a long time. Are you comfortable with Lowes getting huge tax breaks just for coming to town? How about if we offer no tax breaks? Will they still want to locate here? How about we offer tax incentives to the other companies that have always been here?

Lowes will bring in their management from out of town. How many regular employees will they employ? How much will those regulars earn? Will every employee have benefits or will they just get 32 hours a week so the company doesn't have to pay benefits? We haven't heard from Lowe's themselves, only from the developer.

Posted by methusla (anonymous) on September 24, 2008 at 11:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)

rmgcollege:
Maybe I am a little dense, but I fail to see the comparison of a round-a-bout to a proposed Lowes establishing in Emporia has to do with one another ?
I am not totally against a Lowes or other business coming to Emporia, all I am saying is why develope empty land, when there are already empty retail and manufacturing propertys and buildings that, I believe would cost much less to improve and develope, I am saying that now is not the time to consider such a venture to gain, maybe, 20 to 30 new jobs when we hundreds of jobs are needed.
I say again has everyone forgotten the trouble that IBC has been having these past few years just continuing to operate and survive!

Posted by nutsaboutools (anonymous) on September 24, 2008 at 12:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Wake up people. Although I agree that the land north of 24th would not be a good location for any retail, we need what ever retail we can get our hands on. Where do you think the revenue is going to come from (to attract the bigger companies)? Do you want to continue to see your property taxes increase exponentially?

By the way, even if a Lowes or Home Depot did locate in Emporia, you will never replace Blue Stem, True Value, Mark II, etc and the excellent service they provide (business will actually improve). We moved here from a small city, about the size of Emporia (Liverpool, NY). Before we left, we had a Home Depot AND a Lowes (talk about price wars). We also had the local merchants like Sutherlands, Waters, etc. We always went there first before Lowes or HD. Mainly because the employees were knowledgeable, experienced and always offering assistance.

Emporia needs to be "attractive" to the big businesses (that provide the good full time jobs). One of those "carrots" is financial incentives. To provide those incentives, you need revenue. Retailers, like Lowes (and who cares how many pizza places) can help provide the needed revenue. Otherwise, as costs to run this city continue to increase, the burden is going to fall on the local tax payers.

Posted by momus (anonymous) on September 24, 2008 at 12:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

If you look at national studies, there is an effect when a big box retailer moves into a community. The average is around a 86% capture rate (meaning 86% of the big boxes sales were simply captured from existing retailers). A business that has to generate $30 million plus in sales has an effect on existing businesses, and aside from numerous studies on the subject, it's just common sense. You aren't going to buy twice as many dryers, nails, tools or doors because a new Lowe's comes to town, but you may change the place where you buy your products.

I have to commend the Planning Commission on the job they did last night. A group of volunteers did what they thought was right, and they should be commended for their service. I know at least one poster was upset with Laurie, but she had a point. We have to be involved with these issues as a community BEFORE we have these major problems. She was, I assume, a little frustrated at the lack of participation in the past (and I have yet to meet a person that volunteers as much as Laurie that doesn't get frustrated from time to time). I might have phrased things a little differently, but I appreciate her service.

The Planning Commission chose not to augment a comprehensive plan that the ink had not fully dried on, and I agree with their assessment. This "we have to take whatever we can get" attitude is dangerous. We have to anticipate the consequences of our actions, how our moves adjust our position in the overall market place and then determine the net benefit of an action. I don't believe a Lowes in that particular location was net beneficial. I believe that becoming a strictly big box community undermines our long term market position and is not a mechanism for growth. If you believe otherwise, last night was an opportunity for you to speak in favor of the development, but not one local (besides Matt Z.) did so. That should say something...

Posted by sunshine (anonymous) on September 24, 2008 at 12:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't know about building out on 24th. I know that I have kids in school here and I wouldn't want to see business being built there at all. I think that could lead to all kinds of problems. I do think that while I wouldn't want Emporia to become just like Topeka or Wichita, (I think we all should venture out of the city limits and visit places, but I do enjoy a smaller town with some conveniences), but I do think that Emporia needs growth and change. Not the kind of growth that people here are afraid of...none of us want the unsavory things that come along with city life, but I do think that this area is a little stagnant. I want some new things, maybe I would make fewer trips to Topeka or elsewhere in search of different! I don't want the same stuff all the time, my gosh shopping here sometimes is about like having meat and potatoes every darn day of the world and never trying something different. I would be in favor of a Lowe's, a Home Depot, anything that would give me another choice. I shop online at both of those places. Would I stop going to Bluestem or Sutherlands? No! I would continue going to those places when they have the things that I need or want (or when I get good customer service more often than not). I shop at those places now as well as all the other places I shop out of town and online. I would still shop at the places that have been here forever as well as new places if we ever got anything new around here. I also would welcome a Target or something like it because I think Wal-Mart needs some competition. I wish to heck we could get our Big Lots back because I loved shopping at the one we had here and I hate the one in Topeka. I wish we would get rid of the majority of the fast food restaurants here and pizza joints and bring in some places that have healthier foods such as Jason's Deli. (Especially these places that we have two or three of in one small town.) And darn it I wish we would get a yarn store here (although I have found some wonderful yarn at Second Love Gifts, but I need more choices and not the pathetic selection at Wal-Mart!) Our local/existing stores aren't going to suffer people! We will all still shop at the same places but we will also shop at new places if we have em. So PLEASE find some place to build, use existing buildings that are currently merely eyesores, use the brains and imagination that we were all given to make it work somehow. COMPROMISE! We DO have a nice town, but what's wrong with making it better?

Posted by shadou (anonymous) on September 24, 2008 at 1:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

From nomous:

"If you look at national studies, there is an effect when a big box retailer moves into a community. The average is around a 86% capture rate (meaning 86% of the big boxes sales were simply captured from existing retailers)."

Using that figure then a large percentage of tax revenues from taxable sales in other businesses would be shifted from the general fund to the tax increment financing program in which the revenues collected by Lowe's or whomever would only be spent on that specific project. Where does the city come up with the lost tax revenues from the "86% capture rate" to maintain the rest of Emporia's infrastructure?

If a business wishes to locate in Emporia because we are a great place to be, bravo! But if they want to come here for tax incentives then they should not be encouraged by out-of-town developers.

Perhaps the city government should concentrate on improving our infrastructure and making us a better prospective site for the location of home-grown, healthy businesses rather than spending tax money hustling foreign businesses that wish merely to take from Emporia and not give much back, as is currently the case with so many of our franchisers.

Don't we have some NGOs here that can seek new businesses? Why do we taxpayers have to support the efforts of searching for the means of the ultimate destruction of our old line local businesses? Whatever happened to bodies like the "Committee of 50"?

And why indeed should such a lovely site have to give way to the bulldozer and the blacktoppers? We have already been sold on the viability of the former DeBauge property and K. B. Thomas has forty or so acres for sale. Both of them have better highway visibility and access.

Hooray for the City/County planners! Now, keep the city council members in mind at the next election!

Posted by fsaffer (anonymous) on September 24, 2008 at 2:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Did the Zoning Commissioners give any reasons for their various votes? If so, why were those reasons not reported in the article? If not, how can they claim government in the sunshine?

Posted by methusla (anonymous) on September 24, 2008 at 3:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Well, Well ;
With the recent revalation comming from Lowes corporate headquarters and head man himself that Lowes may be cutting back on new store openings because of decreasing sales "due to the decline in the housing industry and present economic uncertainty", may have just put an end to the local disagreement and decision on where to locate a Lowes in Emporia, Ks.
I want to see the City of Emporia grow, in size, economic strength, etc, just as much as anybody, but there is a time for growth and a time to be patient and weigh all the options and consequences of what the wrong impulsive decesion may be, especially in these recent uncertain, turbulent economic times that are facing all of us now and possibly for some time to come. Being prudent is much better than being foolish and headstrong.
I wonder if anyone remembers the Office Furniture fiasco that happened some years back.

Posted by Happiness08 (anonymous) on September 24, 2008 at 3:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Why do we need a Lowe's at all? Lets get some competition for our local Walmart so they can quit ripping all of us off.

Posted by admireed (anonymous) on September 24, 2008 at 3:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

happiness...how is WMT ripping you off?

Posted by trainrech (anonymous) on September 24, 2008 at 4:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

fsaffer-It is pretty apparent you weren't at the meeting...

At the planning commission meetings, motions (to approve/deny/table) include the reasoning or basis. Any votes against the motion include an explanation by the commissioner voting against. All are a part of the public record of the meeting.

I have no answer for the content, or lack thereof, in the paper.

Posted by eiggohp (anonymous) on September 24, 2008 at 4:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I tell you Emporians....Christie is a "snake in the grass". Ask some of the people of Junction City (and not the city fathers) just how he has almost destroyed that city. If you think things are bad here, that is nothing compared to what has happened in JC.....BEWARE!!!!!!!!! You have been warned!

I am definately not against progress of Emporia, but for heavens sake find another developer!

Posted by notasheeple (anonymous) on September 24, 2008 at 4:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

happiness.. There competition it what "you" are typing into.
But will you quit shopping there?

Posted by neighbor (anonymous) on September 24, 2008 at 7:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

7-2 in two seperate votes. Looks like the members of the planning Commission listened to public concerns about the proposed project.

This is the second time a big city development firm has tried to get a project started on controversial sites(Fair Grounds)supposedly on behalf of big box stores. Are our already zoned commercial properties grossly over priced, or were these firms being deceptive? I think the latter, to get the City who is hurting right now, to finance a pipe dream.

Posted by Azaite (anonymous) on September 24, 2008 at 9:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

This town wants development, this town wants to grow and this town wants to survive…change means sacrifice. If the mom & pop businesses charge an honest price and provide great customer service then they will survive against a ‘big box’ store. Traffic as a complaint!!!? Get a grip folks. To me this town sends these messages: 1) we don’t like Mexicans 2) we hate people from Somalia 3) we prefer to complain about the economy and beg for new business

Posted by methusla (anonymous) on September 24, 2008 at 10:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Azaite;
Yes, this City wants developement, to grow and to survive but on our terms and not terms dictated to us by a developer and large businesses that only care about turning a profit at the expense of others instead of themselves.
As far as not likeing someone I for one never said I didn't like Mexicans or hated Somalians, but I have said both on this forum and at public meetings, that I dislike having people rammed down my and every other citizens throat by some out of City or out of State, so called church sponsered charity, etc, but that is an argument from a different situation and time.
To repeat what I have said on the Lowes proposal is, now is not the time to rush into a situation or decision that may or may not be beneficial to Emporia citizens, what with the recent economic turmoil both in the nation as a whole and especially Emporia. I have also said that there is a time to contemplate growth and a time to wait and be prudent in making decisions that will eventually effect all of Emporias' citizens and I believe the time to wait and be prudent is right here and now.

Posted by momus (anonymous) on September 24, 2008 at 11:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The key word that people keep using is "growth". Shifting dollars from one business to another business isn't "growth", especially when one group of businesses are locally owned and keep a higher percentage of their revenues in the community versus a corporation that ships the lion's share of revenues to a corporate headquarters (the word you’re looking for is “sprawl”). So, what people are saying is that they don't want to build on and grow what Emporian's have done themselves. They instead want to offer tax abatements and other unfair advantages to outsiders in the hopes that they can come into the community and make us feel better about ourselves because we recognize their company logo from television. Do we see a net gain in jobs? Nope. Anything resembling an income level that will raise our pitiful median income? Nope. But I saw that store on the TV, and we now gots one of them there stores in our town, so that means we gotta be doin' good. Please.

What we need are jobs. Industrial, technological or service related jobs. Emporia sits in the eye of several much larger communities that, because of their size, we will never be able to compete with on a retail selection standpoint. We can, however compete as an entrepreneurial base that offers unique selections of businesses in a variety of categories that have been pushed out of larger communities. We have this delusion that we are a massive town. We're not. But, we are so desperate to believe we are that we would be willing to bull doze the entire downtown (with maybe the exception of the Granada) if it meant that we got a Target. The problem isn't that people are anti growth; the problem is that we have a large portion of the population that wants us to engage in a retail battle against the much larger surrounding communities that we can never win. It's the magic bullet philosophy that "if we just do this one thing" everything else will magically fall into place and the city will be better off. Some simple research into what happens to cities of our size that attempt this strategy is enough to turn back the most ardent big box supporter. But let’s not research, we might find out something that we don't want to know.

Posted by methusla (anonymous) on September 25, 2008 at 12:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

momus;
I agree that there are those that have the have this idea in their minds that Emporia is more than what it actually is and that is the fact that Emporia is a small country City (Town).
You are exactly right by saying and thinking that Emporia cannot compete with the likes of Topeka, Wichita, Manhattan, Lawrence, etc., because the simple fact is Emporia does not have the population, jobs and disposable payroll base that the cities I mentioned above have.
Also if those who think that having more retail businesses in Emporia will attract the industrial, technical and manufacturing jobs you (we) all would like to see here. I am afraid you are sadly mistaken. History and the Nations industrial centers developement will show that first comes Industrial, manufacturing jobs with disposable payrolls, then comes the retail businesses, such as restaurants, consumer goods stores etc., not the other way around, retail businesses then manufacuring, industrial or technical jobs.
Growth of any kind, wheather it be a City, a child or what-ever takes time, thought, planning and patience, as there are growing pains and set backs in any kind of growth.

Posted by Weltha (anonymous) on September 25, 2008 at 8:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

liveinetown- Anyone that has said they haven't went topeka, kansas city or witchita to buy something at lowes or home depot is lying!

I can safely say that I have NOT gone to Topeka, Kansas City or WICHITA to buy anything from Lowes or Home Depot. HONESTLY!!!! Ask me about Circuit City or Best Buy and my story would be different.

Posted by Summer_Breeze (anonymous) on September 25, 2008 at 8:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Momus and Methusla, I think you have some flaws in your arguments.

Momus, you've expressed apprehension that bringing in a big box store will undermine the existing small businesses in town. But do you have facts and figures on how many Emporians are currently going to other cities, like Topeka or Wichita, to shop at Lowe's or Home Depot, because the smaller businesses in Emporia don't have the products they want? How about the number of Emporians who are shopping online, because there is such limited selection in Emporia? Wouldn't it be good for Emporia to recapture those retail sales?

Methusla, you keep writing that growth takes time and careful planning. Do you know how much planning has gone on behind the scenes of the proposals that were made? I certainly don't, but I have to assume that the developer and certain Chamber and government officials have spent considerable time and effort to put together the plans discussed at the meeting. Certainly there has been a fair amount of media coverage and citizen input. How much is enough in your estimation?

I think Emporians should stop being so obstructive to growth, before the town dies like so many small Kansas communities have. We're already struggling. Can't we find a way to cooperate and compromise to breathe some retail (and tax base) life back into this place?

I liked the ideas expressed by Sunshine and Nutsaboutools. Let's find some alternatives to alleviate the perceived problems with traffic flow and make a plan that will capture NEW retail choices for the consumers in Emporia AND bring additional jobs and additional taxes to the community!!

Posted by create (anonymous) on September 25, 2008 at 9:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Right on, Momus! So few people understand the concept of how the big box stores send their receipts out of town.

On top of sending what they earn out of town, nationally known stores don't buy anything locally, not even items as simple as cash register paper or bathroom tissue. It all gets sent to them in case lots from somewhere else. Neither Staples nor Navratt's gets their business.

Sorry Sunshine, just building new retail establishments does not guarantee patronage. To put it simply, if we no got jobs we no got money we no buy stuff.

Too many people are not looking at the big picture; they're just looking for a new place to go window shopping. According to figures offered in this morning's national economic news, purchases for big ticket household items like refrigerators are way down right now. Also, Unemployment Insurance claims are up by 32,000 from where they were last week. We need jobs, not retail spaces!

Posted by nutsaboutools (anonymous) on September 25, 2008 at 9:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

methusla,

I think you're partially correct. What you are saying would be true for about 30 years ago. Nowadays, with today's economy, industrial, technical and manufacturing developers require incentives to make them want to develop in a particular location. Those incentives usually come in the form of tax breaks (money).

When I lived in a small city, similar to Emporia, for about 15 years, I saw it happen. When I first moved there, it was nothing but open fields north of my development (divided in quarters by a highway like Rt 35 and a main thoroughfare like Old Hwy 50/6th or Industrial Rd.). A large mall (about twice the size of Flint Hills Mall) went up in the northeast quadrant (anchored by Sears, JCPennys and Best Buy). Then came a BJ's Wholesale (Sam's competitor). A couple of years later, another "Mall", anchored by Home Depot and Target, moved into the northwest quadrant, then a Sam's. Lowes showed up just before we moved here. It was fun watching the price wars between Target/Walmart, Lowes/Home Depot, Sam's/BJ's, etc. I recently traveled there to visit family and old neighbors. Now there are also new high rise businesses (can't remember some of the names), an Alcan (make aluminum cans, etc), a transmission manufacturing plant (can't remember the name).

While visiting with my neighbors they mentioned that their property taxes hadn't gone up in the last 3 years and the usual fees that they used to pay for their kids school activities were dropped. These "retailers" and businesses were big contributors to the schools and local community.

On the down side, they didn't anticipate such growth as fast as it did, so the traffic is a nightmare (take the traffic we see on Industrial at the intersections of Hwy 35, and in front of Walmart and double or triple it).

I do agree with you though, we do need to be patient and proceed with due diligence, but we need to proceed. Emporia needs to grow.

Posted by momus (anonymous) on September 25, 2008 at 9:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I guess the biggest difference between your small town, nutsaboutools, and our small town is that the Liverpool NY/Syracuse metroplex trade area has a population of about 750,000. The trade area of Emporia is about 55,000. There is a difference in what those two population levels can support.

Posted by useyourhead (anonymous) on September 25, 2008 at 10:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Just a thought, many of you act as if Staples and Sutherlands are local stores, this is not the case. So your money is leaving Emporia that way, just like at Lowes. I applaud Staples and Sutherlands for coming in without the tax help. But please don't act like we owe them for being local. Also we need to develop or die in Emporia and Lyon county. Manufacturing management will not build where there isn't retail for management to shop at. Shop in Emporia first is the motto around here but we have to go out of town to find real shopping. I hate traveling to shop, so give me a way to stay in Emporia, selection is needed.
Many of you have brought up East of Emporia for building, think about it, two words, flood plain. I agree 24th and Industrial is a tough place to let commercial growth occur, I would rather see Lowe's in the Graphic Arts corridor but that isn't any better infrastructure wise.
Lastly, I have heard enough about urban sprawl protect the agriculture, we need that land for food. If we are that desperate for crop ground and cattle grazing stop paying farmers tax dollars to not farm CRP ground.

Posted by sunshine (anonymous) on September 25, 2008 at 10:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Create, you are right, There are no guarantees, so lets keep on doing what we've been doing. Keep rejecting ANYTHING new coming in. I agree we need something other than retail jobs coming in...but I don't see em' running to our town. I have not heard of any interest. Why do you think that is? I wonder if we had more retail maybe the town would look a little more appealing to some of those folks that would provide the manufacturing, technical, and industrial jobs that we all want. I just think that our town is not attractive to those folks.
I do my part to try to "Shop Emporia First", but sometimes, many times the the things I want or need just aren't here, OR maybe I've gone to Sutherlands and attempted to buy a big item like a trailer and was treated like there day was being interupted. In fact, it was my husband who tried to buy the trailer and he never was waited on and he went to Topeka to buy the trailer. I have been there and some of the other businesses in this town and treated terribly. That often plays into wether I shop here or elsewhere. I can't stand spending my money at Wal-Mart...they don't have any competition here and they know it. I have been know to drive two hours (where I have family I can visit anyway) and buy my groceries because I pay half the price I do here.
I would not want a lot of of "big box" retail stores coming in...maybe we should evaluate what we've got. If we can keep new, and potentially beneficial places from coming in, maybe we should kick out some of the places that are not. Maybe we could slim down some on some of the chain restaurants here and save our dollars for local folks like Amanda's. We don't seem to have a problem though with welcoming in the next Taco Bell Pizza Ranch Express Chineese food with open arms.
What has struck me many times about this town is that there is a lot of close-mindedness. Yes, I believe too that we should take our time to make good decisions about our town, but nothing has really changed since my family moved here about 6 years ago. In that time I have heard of several retailers wanting to come in and they are always rejected. How much more time do we need to see that we really need to do something if we want to improve, if we want the younger generations to stay here and not run the first chance they get?
And for those who say we need more time and that are so against allowing a new store or two to come in, what is your plan? What do you think should be done? I mean other than what we have been doing...because I truly believe that there is no time like the present. I don't think we have years to mess around with this. I feel this town slipping into what none of us wants...the beginnings of a ghost town.

Posted by sunshine (anonymous) on September 25, 2008 at 11:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)

useyourhead...my thoughts exactly. I was wondering myself why people seemed to think that Staples and Sutherlands was part of local retail. I don't know either where the right place would be to build, I am not too thrilled about the Graphic Arts location...well, at least I don't want it to be close to the schools. I have actually always thought that the schools are in a terrible location, but there were put out there before my time.

Posted by nutsaboutools (anonymous) on September 25, 2008 at 11:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)

momus,

When I first moved to Liverpool, the population was about 60,000 (not counting Syracuse, which is about 30 minutes away).

Posted by wirewatt (anonymous) on September 25, 2008 at 5 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The traffic on Industrial is very heavy right now, however I don't see it getting any heavier with the new stores. We don't have a bridge over I-35 on Graphic Arts, and all the North Bound traffic on I-35 comes thur on WHwy 50 and up Industrial. People want more more jobs and choices, and more young people to go to ESU. We need places for these kids to work and shop to keep their dollars in Emporia. We should welcome this with safeguards for the public money, which I am sure the City Commissioners will make sure they are in place. If what we read,the expansion will go on the tax rolls at $28,000,000, what a boon to our economy.

Posted by USNretired (anonymous) on October 7, 2008 at 2:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Maybe we need another Turnpike interchange, either north or south of the present one. But then again, we can't seem to move 99 to Merchant Street and make a decent interchange at South Avenue and Commercial to feed into Merchant. We just make big trucks try to navigate Twelfth in front of ESU. Whatever happened to getting an education in urban planning before trying to do it?