Posted by sandyestabrook (anonymous) on August 15, 2008 at 11:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Aesthetics has it's own value, maybe not in increased property taxes but in the overall peace of mind it gives anyone who drives home from a busy day at work. True, the Peaks have the right to do with their property what they want but I am one who hopes they chose not to change it. Surely there is other property suitable for development. There is so much congestion on Industrial with the road construction and the detour for I-35 and the turnpike that sometimes I've been on the bridge when it vibrates and could feel it moving from all the vehicles stopped on it including semi's. Then when you reach 24th and Industrial there is this little patch of heaven. I doubt anyone can drive by and not appreciate it.
Can anyone explain why our mall can't have a nice eating establishment where there are empty spaces available and plenty of parking already? Is any business going into the large empty space on the southwest corner? When will the bridge over I-35 on Graphic Arts be finished to help relieve the congestion on Industrial especially during school hours? There is no doubt that Emporia would benefit from new business but why not utilize the unused existing spaces that we already have.

Posted by tosie (anonymous) on August 15, 2008 at 11:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

DITTO!!!!

Posted by Bjnemp (anonymous) on August 15, 2008 at 1:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I have to agree. If Emporia is in such financial straights that it must desecrate a lovely and visually pleasing area of town in order to obtain a few added tax dollars, then we are already too deep in doo to dig out. As Sandy said, fill up the hollow mall or other existing spaces already designated and adapted for commercial use before grading up a lovely homestead and covering it with concrete. The targeted area is not designed for additional chaotic traffic, either. I like the idea of the big box store and the additional restaurants coming to Emporia, especially if one serves seafood, but why in that peaceful and unspoiled location? Make the mall an actual mall, or put new industry in the industrial park, and leave one of Emporia's most appealing neighborhoods alone. I am a strong proponent of growth and progress, but destroying that lovely residential corridor is too big a price to pay.

Posted by bdprotheroe (anonymous) on August 15, 2008 at 2:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

This is a rarity for me, but I am going to voice a complaint on The Emporia Gazette's blog for once. Here it goes, and I'll attempt to provide some alternative solutions along the way.

First, I am not a fan of the big retail chains, especially how they put out of business locally-owned Mom & Pop stores. Need more reasons to boycott? Go to www.walmartwatch.com. Emporia already has plenty of hardware and builder supplies stores, and the last thing the city needs is Lowe's to march in and repeat Wal-Mart's antics.

Yet, if the City does decide to go forth with this proposal, then why allow for Lowe's to build smack dab in the center of a residential area driving down the property value of those homes in the area? The empty land on 24th Avenue is prime for residential development, and nothing more. Secondly, can you imagine the traffic headache? The City already doesn't know how to widen the avenue, and has been scratching their heads over the challenge for over a decade.

Should Lowe's decide to park it's big ol' "highly decorative" cinder block store in Emporia, it needs to select an area that is blighted and in need of redevelopment. Prime example, the former K-Mart/Big Lots location is an eyesore and needs to be cleaned up. Heck, that building looks so weak I'm certain it wouldn't take much to tear it down but a heavy push with your hand. What about the fairgrounds? There has been lots of talk in the past about selling that location, allowing the county to pick up some revenue (which it lacks), and allowing a big retailer to develop the land.

But, let's get back to my first point. Emporia doesn't need another big retailer.

Come on, Emporia. It's time to wake up. How many of you complain about Wal-Mart as it is? Closing down the locally-owned businesses, creating traffic headaches, getting tax breaks and making employees work for dirt?

I know times are hard, but someone needs to put down their foot. Why are you selling yourselves out?

Emporia doesn't need another big retailer, it needs blue-collar and white-collar jobs, no more businesses with a perky gray-haired greeter in a blue smock.

Brian Protheroe
San Francisco, CA

PS: One way to take a stand is by passing an ordinance blocking the future development of big retailers in the city/county. San Francisco County did that years ago, and to this day the Mom & Pop shops flourish because they don't have to contend/compete with the Wal-Marts of the world.

Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on August 15, 2008 at 2:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

bdprotheroe

On this we are in agreement.

I don't live in the corridor impacted by this possible development, but I understand what those who live there are feeling.

Others have asked what seem to me to be very sensible questions. Is there somewhere else for this development that wouldn't have such a huge impact on a residential area? What about those empty spaces at the mall? What about all those places downtown? What about Big Lots? The developer's answers seem cursory at this point. I think the residents along that corridor need something that's more complete and satisfactory.

I just read a piece in Midwest Living this morning about the 100 best small communities in the Midwest. The towns ranged in scale from those about the size of Emporia to some as small as Lindsborg. As I read through them I saw they all had something in common. The development teams spent a lot of time figuring out what each respective community's distinctives were.

Unfortunately, Emporia was not on the list. It's not that it couldn't be. I've talked to the commissioners about communities like Lindsborg and their success. I've been told that Lindsborg is a stand alone situation and is too small to compare with Emporia. It could be, but I doubt it. Plus, there are towns are size that are having a great deal of development success I think it's all a matter of scale and effort. Linddborg was succesful in its development for a reason and so were the other 99 on the list. I'd like to think that our distinctives for developers would be Emporia is more than just a place with strip malls on our west side.

The wheel on this is still in spin. There will have to be a zoning change before anything can happen. That ball will be in the zoning commision's and city commisioners' hands. There will be some public input. The question is - will there be enough?

Posted by vankamp (anonymous) on August 15, 2008 at 2:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Now the Northwest part of town knows a little bit of how the people southeast of town felt when Hills and the wonderful biodiesel plant was shoved down our throats. There were plenty of locatons that were already zoned for these 2 business, but our commissioners were determined that it would go in there and they would twist all kinds of zoning codes to fit there needs. Now that beautiful peaceful area is no more. Between the loud noises and the heavy duty lighting it has all been ruined. I am totally for new businesses in town but the way this was done is a disgrace and would not have happened if it would have been near any of our city commissioners and now the biodiesel plant sits empty with weeds 7 feet tall. They should at least be made to take care of the area and mow it. Just so you know, I live in the northwest part of town, but have many friends that live near the mess.

Posted by bdprotheroe (anonymous) on August 15, 2008 at 3:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I just ran a simple Google search for “hardware” in and around “Emporia, Kansas.” Mr. Christie and Emporians, specifically the Peaks, should take a good, hard look at this partial list of companies that very well might be put out of business should Lowe’s develop the land on West 24th Avenue. Not only will companies go out of business, storefronts will become vacant, weeds will grow in the parking lots, the traffic will continue to become unbalanced leaning to the west side of Emporia, and most importantly, employees will lose their jobs.

Here is that list:

Waters True Value Hardware – Emporia
Bluestem Farm & Ranch Supply – Emporia
Sherwin-Williams – Emporia
Sutherlands Lumber Co – Emporia
Davis Paint & Frame Store – Emporia
Mark II Lumber – Emporia
Bills Hardware & Electric – Hartford
Burlington Building Materials – Burlington
Council Grove Ace Hardware – Council Grove
Clark Farm & Home Store True Value – Strong City

Back in 2004, Emporians (Kansans, in general) complained about the book “What’s the Matter with Kansas” by Thomas Frank, before having read its content. I do believe it’s time to reconsider the sections of that book that speak about the ills of capitalism. How right Mr. Frank was when he paraphrased Sam Walton. “So, you want to be capitalists, huh?” Again, take a look at what Wal-Mart has done to Emporia.

Sure, I may live in San Francisco, one of the largest cities in the country known for large corporations, and lots of extreme (dare I say, "crazy") ideas and opinions. Yet, in SF City and County (800,000 of the metro’s 8 million residents) the Board of Supervisors were wise enough to protect it’s locally owned businesses from the corporate retailers by enacting a ban upon the development of big box retailers within the county.

Lyon County, Kansas should, and can, do the same. I’d like to see my hometown stand up for its dignity.

Brian Protheroe
San Francisco, CA

Posted by anonymous08 (anonymous) on August 15, 2008 at 3:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It is the Peak's land they can do whatever they want with it. I have never seen a town that does not like change well guess what people times are changing get use to it. Your not going to keep Emporia like it was years ago. I would like to see the competition come to Emporia a lot of people still go out of town to shop cause there is nothing here and you get better deals they always say shop emporia first give us something to shop!!!!

Posted by batbatly (anonymous) on August 15, 2008 at 3:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The people who are against this development are the reason Emporia is a joke of a town. Developments like these are precisely what this town needs, and here's why: This town has done a poor job of catering to an economic base that has the potential to bring in a lot of money to what is otherwise an economic wasteland — the college students. Take a look at what Manhattan and Lawrence have done. They have developments going up all over the place to specifically cater to college students. BUT, they also have thriving downtown/business districts that cater to locally owned shops and restaurants. The two can thrive in the same town. It most definitely can happen. But the fact that Emporia has ignored the college student population as a source of income is a joke. College students have so much more expendable income now than they ever did, mainly because they have jobs (yes, jobs at Wal-Mart and Lowes and other"big-box" retailers), and they also have mommy and daddy's credit cards.

Developments like this will improve the quality of life in Emporia so that this town will actually be able to attract more manufacturing jobs that pay better. Businesses will not move to a wasteland like Emporia unless the quality of life improves, and it starts with developments like this one.

Posted by kcfan (anonymous) on August 15, 2008 at 4:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

you guys are crazy! middle of a residential area? uh, I don't know about you, but being able to see Wal-Mart out my window is not my idea of residential. I guess maybe 15 years ago it was. Probably 20 years ago the Peaks lived in the country. Its called progress!

And for the people gripping about how things should be built in the North, East, South parts of town - whatever your smoking is probably illegal! The other parts of town are not conveniently located next to the interstate, and are more residential BLOCKS than the West. Anyways if you put it out anywhere but the West side then people would complain about having to drive 15 minutes to get to it just like they do about the aquatic center! Business follows the masses. The masses move from the heart of the ORIGINAL city..the business follows suit. Thats why if you look at original downtown district in any major (or minor, of that matter) city its typically empty or near empty. Bigger better, newer. Thats the American way!

Posted by kcfan (anonymous) on August 15, 2008 at 4:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Brian - For the final time Emporia KS is not SF. SF has a much larger population base with greater diversity. The local ethnic groups build their own communities within the city (China town, little Italy…) and specialty shops flourish. Here in the Emporia everyone shops at Wal-Mart. Price is the major predictor if a product will be purchased not necessarily quality. Larger store have more buying power, this equates to cheaper prices. Its simple math. If the stores that you mentioned before are currently not meeting the needs of Emporia, Lowe's would never even of looked our direction. Analysts study demographic buying power (which is why they always as for your zip at the checkout). Obviously they have observed a lot of money being spent in Topeka/KC/Wichita that could be spent here. Money spent here is more tax revenue. This is a good thing, especially in light of the new sales tax increase. And honestly is that area really all that pretty. That’s about as dumb of a reason as it was for blocking the wind farm in the flint hills.

Posted by stevo (anonymous) on August 15, 2008 at 4:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Why do we need a store like lowes? Why do we continue to try to hurt all the other businesses in Emporia? We already have an efficient number of choices for hardware type stores...what Emporia needs is a Target or something that we can choose instead of just Walmart... those are the people Emporia are loosing out of town and then when they are already shopping out of town, they get the idea to go ahead and shop for more to make their trip worth while... Also, I am wondering if the Development Company paid to have this meeting at the Vo-Tec or if our tax dollars paid for it too>>. And if we did pay for it...why did we not use the auditorium or a room at our courthouse??? We need Kent Heermann to do his job he is paid for...we continue to pay people to come tell us what to do and He is the One who is paid by us to find the Developement and get Emporia Going... We need industries in Emporia for Jobs, We don't need more statues of Dreams that take our money and then GO Running out of Town Laughing!!

Posted by lewisbailbonds (anonymous) on August 15, 2008 at 4:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

personally i would like to see this come to emporia...but it is not going in my neighborhood so who am i to ask for it..i think Emporia needs this here..i dont know about alot of folk but i get really tired of going to walmart and having this will certainly provide much more variety.and i i wont have to go out of town to shop for those specialty items ...i would hope that the small business owners could stay afloat,,as we still have the "good ol boy" commitment her in emporia...either way,i'm good

Posted by bdprotheroe (anonymous) on August 15, 2008 at 4:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You’re losing your culture, which is the problem.

Middle America longs for the “good ol’ days.” In the 1950’s, there were no McDonald’s, Applebee’s, Olive Gardens, Wal-Marts, Home Depots and other corporate franchises and retailers in those days gone by.

“Back then,” money was not spent except upon necessities.

For example, I have a choice when I need to purchase a hammer. I can go to Wal-Mart (via BART, traveling outside SF County) with the intention of buying that one necessity at a lower price, but knowing that I will more than likely walk out of the store with several unnecessary items because I fell into the trap of Corporate America’s marketing scheme of impulse buying. Or, I can go to the locally owned corner store called Fox-Cole Hardware which sells only hardware and home-improvement materials. Sure, I will pay a slightly higher price for that hammer, but at the same time I am not being “convinced” to purchase anything but that hammer. The largest benefit of buying from Fox-Cole is I know the money I spend upon that one necessity will stay local, rather than a profit being sent to Bentonville, Arkansas because I filled up a shopping cart.

It seems to me most of the few locally-owned restaurants in the Emporia community are the Mexican taquerias that were created by those immigrants who arrived in the 80’s and 90’s to work at IBP. They were smart enough to invest their earnings into small family-run restaurants while the rest of you were flocking to Carlos O’Kelley’s. And, when you sit down and order that margarita and over-sized combination platter, a profit is sent out of state. Case in point, Gringo’s no longer exists. Adios, Mr. Clark. Now, there’s talk of bringing Olive Garden and other franchises into the community. So, it naturally begs the question, which locally-owned restaurants would you like to line up for the firing squad?

There were too many complaints to count when Dillon’s closed down on Industrial Road. The store closed down because Emporians decided it was more convenient to drive to Wal-Mart and purchase groceries in bulk, and picking up cheap plastic non-necessities at the same time. I’m sorry to have to point this out, but you had a choice of which grocery store you wanted to go to and that is clearly a self-inflicted wound.

(To be continued.)

Posted by bdprotheroe (anonymous) on August 15, 2008 at 4:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

(Continued.)

“College students have so much more expendable income now than they ever did, mainly because they have jobs (yes, jobs at Wal-Mart and Lowe’s and other "big-box" retailers), and they also have mommy and daddy's credit cards.”

Correction. The college students now have their own credit cards, which they foolishly agree to sign up for on the first day of their freshman year. I know, I was one of them in the 90’s. Then, without having been properly informed how to manage their finances, they go out and rack up debt on things that are not necessities. That’s why they resort to filling out employment applications for work at these fast-food franchises and big box retailers… to get out of debt.

For those of you who remember, think back to Emporia in the early 1980’s. Think of all the locally owned stores and restaurants that are no longer in existence today because we have become a consumer society gravitating to the stores with “bargains” and big flashy signage along interstate highways.

Proper progress knows how to create a balance between the two. Emporia has done a decent job of rallying the locals to reinvest in downtown, locally owned businesses. With so many hardware and home development stores in existence in the Emporia community, why are you working against the small business owner by considering a large, cookie-cutter retailer?

BP
SF, CA

Posted by bdprotheroe (anonymous) on August 15, 2008 at 7:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

“Brian - For the final time Emporia KS is not SF.”

You’re absolutely correct. In fact, there’s about 2,000 miles between the two locations.

“SF has a much larger population base with greater diversity. The local ethnic groups build their own communities within the city (China town, little Italy…) and specialty shops flourish.”

Great, then we are in agreement. A small community, as well as a small town, can support itself without conglomerate meddling. All it takes is a little bit of will power.

“Here in the Emporia everyone shops at Wal-Mart.”

Yes, I know. There used to be so many choices before it moved to town.

“Price is the major predictor if a product will be purchased not necessarily quality. Larger store have more buying power, this equates to cheaper prices. Its simple math.”

Refer to my points outlined in the previous messages, please. I hate to repeat myself.

“If the stores that you mentioned before are currently not meeting the needs of Emporia, Lowe's would never even of looked our direction. Analysts study demographic buying power (which is why they always as for your zip at the checkout). Obviously they have observed a lot of money being spent in Topeka/KC/Wichita that could be spent here. Money spent here is more tax revenue.”

Have you ever played Monopoly?

If local stores are not competitive, then are you unable to spend your dollars at another locally owned business? The Wal-Marts of the world aren’t out to make your life easier, although that little happy face would certainly lead one to think otherwise. There’s no more a difference between Wal-Mart and it’s addiction to market share than an overweight person at a buffet.

Brian Protheroe
San Francisco, CA

Posted by cookatwork (anonymous) on August 15, 2008 at 10:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

OK.......... enough is enough..... Emporia needs SOMETHING! I'm not sure a national chain hardware store is the answer. WHY don't we look for a national chain of something that Emporia has VERY little of - like Petsmart for example (yes... I know... before someone says anything... we have A, just one, pet store - but he has a very faithful following and I believe that he would thrive).

Wal-Mart NEEDS some competition - has not ANYONE noticed that their prices just keep going UP - so much for the smiley man SLASHING prices.

I totally agree that we should use up some of the empty building areas. Demo of the Kmart/ Big Lots building would be great - it IS an eye sore and would be a prime location with ample parking for a new business.

New and different eating establishments would be nice - I'm not a seafood person but there are a lot of people who are and only have LJS to chose from, for primarily seafood. Hey, what about an Italian place - we don't have one since S'ghetti's isn't here anymore.

NOW to address this Dillions situation. bproth.... you need to check your facts a LITTLE better. Dillion's did NOT go out of business BECAUSE of WalMart. Dillion's closed because of poor timing. It was an issue of leases, signing and cost of fixing the building they WERE going to move in to. Dillion's had a VERY faithful following after the Superstore was finished - they still do... many faithful Dillion's patron drive to the East side of town just to go to Dillion's.

continued....

Posted by cookatwork (anonymous) on August 15, 2008 at 10:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Now... let's address the issue of the mall. Yes.... our mall is a poor excuse for a mall. Parking close to the door is NOT a problem. There is a NICE big area where Food-4-Less used to be (BTW I MISS THAT STORE!!!!!) and would be a LOVELY place for a comparable and competing department store like Target. BUT..... from what I understand the building needs a LOT of work - some of that being asbestos removal (in part, part of the reason Dillion's did not take the building).

We DO need some bigger businesses in town that will create some jobs and revenue for this town. The OTHER thing that these businesses would create is some competing wages.

As for the comment about the other sides of town not being near the interstate - there is a NON pay 4 lane highway that MANY people travel on that runs right through the East side of town - how about we think about bringing some revenue BACK to the East side of Emporia.

There are sooooooooo many things that can be done and options to look at. I hope that the city takes all of these into consideration BEFORE they agree to it and NOT just go for the "quick fix". We DO need some revenue and different job choices - but we need to take a good hard look at what and where and utilize space that is already available.

The area in question (while it is the landowner's right to sell the land) it is ULTIMATELY up to the city whether to zone it for anything other than residential. This area is OVER congested and the congestion backs up all the way to the intersection at Eaglecrest Drive - sometimes getting out of Staples or otherwise (including WalMart) takes FOREVER!!!!!!

There was also a mention of utilizing the fairgrounds - bproth... if you did not see it... you contradicted yourself.... you said utilize the areas already available and then wanted to use the fairgrounds which would take as much development as any other open land space. BUT..... leave the fairgrounds alone..... it was DONATED for the purposes that it is used for and it is enjoyed by the residents of Emporia for many many purposes. The committee has spent their money nicely to improve on the appearance of the fairgrounds and it is very nice.

I'm sure that there will be much more discussion about this.

One of the questions I have is..... WHY the huge push for LOWE'S all these past few years? Is there someONE or select FEW that are going to benefit from THIS particular store?

Posted by ErLiv180 (anonymous) on August 15, 2008 at 10:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

First off, why is Brian's opinion valid? He signs his comments "Brian Protheroe, San Francisco, CA" - that means he's not in Emporia here and now. (I understand, it's your hometown - but that doesn't mean you know what's going on in the here and now.)

I've lived in Emporia my entire life. I've been to many "Mom & Pop" stores. I also shop at Walmart. Not only do I know many people who work there to make a living (how can you make a living at a Mom & Pop store if the store is not selling anything?) but it's more convenient for me. Just because advertising and society encourages you to buy lots of non-necessity items does not mean that you have to give in to that temptation. That said, this is not an argument for or against Walmart - frankly, it's in Emporia now, and it's not likely to leave anytime soon. Why not enjoy it while we have it?

(And as to Brian's point about the mexican restaurants - if you haven't noticed, Carlos O'Kelly's and several homestyle restaurants are surviving side-by-side. The point is moot.)

The point is, why not encourage businesses to come to Emporia? Sure, some small businesses might close, but they might close anyway - many people today would rather take a trip to Topeka or Wichita, spend the day, watch a movie, grab some dinner, and get whatever supplies they need while they're there - and probably for a cheaper price than is available in town. Why are we drawn to out-of-town stores? Not only because items are usually cheaper in big stores than in small, locally-owned stores, but because there are THINGS TO DO in other cities. Being a quaint, small town is all well and good, but it does not promote growth.

Our most reliable source of income come from the college students that come to our college here and spend money. Whether the money they spend is their own or their parents' is irrelevant - the point is, they bring income to the community. Big stores aren't going to suck the life out of Emporia - they will, in time, encourage growth. Nobody wants to come to/stay in a town that has nothing but small, expensive specialty stores, but they will flock to towns that have large retail stores.

All this aside, the real point of the article was not whether to encourage outside businesses to come to Emporia or not; it was where to put these businesses. I agree - if other places in Emporia where these businesses could be pursuaded to set up shop, it would be nice - it would make the city look nicer to have full buildings in the middle of town instead of building new ones and leaving the others to fall apart. However, if there is a good reason why these businesses would rather be on the west side of town, I see no reason why they shouldn't. That's one of the costs of having a developing town.

From a lifelong Emporian, it's about time that we encourage growth in Emporia! Welcome to the department stores and new restaurants!

Posted by MerryCarol (anonymous) on August 15, 2008 at 11:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What would be done about traffic if a major store or stores go in there at Industrial and 24th. The traffic there along Industrial is already pretty bad. It will become unbearable, which will keep people from coming here.

24th going West isn't bad. Not much traffic and wider. Fewer people come from that direction. But 24th going East from there is narrow and winds. And more people use it. Imagine it getting even more busy. Could be a dangerous road if that happens.

There are multiple turns into businesses that already slow down the flow of traffic. Increase the traffic, and it will be a nightmare.

This needs to be thought out very well before putting anything in there. It might be an attractive spot for retail, but they need to address the traffic issues before they put in the stores.

Posted by emporian (anonymous) on August 15, 2008 at 11:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I thought I read in tonight's paper there would be 1.8 million dollars of street improvements the developer would pay for.

Posted by alfalfa (anonymous) on August 16, 2008 at 12:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Brian Protheroe is on the mark. It makes no sense to try to bring retailers in to compete for the same population base that already are being served. Coming from a small town that really doesn't have any place to shop, I nearly die laughing reading all this BS about how Emporia has nothing, and is going to die. The priority should be first, get more jobs to Emporia, then retailers will follow. I think most of the retailers are having a tough time as it is, they really don't need more competition locally. What can end up happening is both competing businesses close. I would be a mad son of a gun if tax dollars went to bring in a business via tax breaks or other incentives that was going to compete with my business, after I had invested my own money in a community and paid taxes there. The other very valid points made by many posters is Emporia has so many empty buildings and slots in the mall, why construct new, when you could remodel and revitalize?? If Emporia keeps moving northwest, pretty soon the business district will be in Americus, or Council Grove.

You know what folks, you can't have it all. You can't have that small town atmosphere and have every single national retailer and eating establishment. If you want to live in KC, move to KC. My wife and I go round about this in our own household. I say if you can't buy it in Emporia, we probably don't need it, she moans and groans about needing a Target, etc. Just my opinion, take it or leave it, she generally leaves it.

Posted by zeus (anonymous) on August 16, 2008 at 2:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

If you build it they will come! New developments in Emporia is exactly what this town needs. Different corp. looking at Emporia at a possible place to set up shop, thus creating jobs thus helping the Emporia economy. Emporia's expansion in that area has been going on for years and has only helped this town. Why stop now. Grow Emporia! Grow!

Posted by neighbor (anonymous) on August 16, 2008 at 10:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Is it just me or do Big City Developers seem to always go for the residential areas or areas where something good already exists? Could it be that the areas already zoned Commercial or Industrial are way over priced and the developers are looking to avoid those costs by offering glowing or inflated $$$ revenue claims, to make street improvements for a small fraction of the cost that it would take to purchase land that already has proper road/utility access? I believe I'm right. There are plenty of places that exist in Emporia for such a development without carving out more of the residential neighborhoods. Obviously our commercially zoned properties are way over priced when developers start trying to buy out fire department buildings, buy corners of business parking lots, try to convince the public to assist in overtaking land obtained in a generous act to benefit children(fairgrounds), and now to try to buy land in a residential neighborhood.

Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on August 16, 2008 at 11:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Neighbor

I don't think it's just you. I also think you're right about the approach some developers take. Most probably only need an inch to be profitable, but they'll ask for the mile if they believe they can get it.

Posted by bdprotheroe (anonymous) on August 16, 2008 at 2:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

A constant theme in the comments posted to this blog, and others connected to Emporia’s economic survival, is the need for “something new” to come to town. How right you are! But, why do you rely upon an outside organization to bring a false since of security to the community? That's like Oliver asking, "Please, sir, I want some more."

Where are Emporia’s entrepreneurs? Where is the initiative? Where is the creativity?

Amanda’s in the Kress Building, the locally owned coffee shops too, these are examples of people with the drive to create homegrown, rather than live off a paycheck that comes from Bentonville, Arkansas. Granted, sandwiches and lattes cannot boost the local economy on their own.

Emporia has a strong history of entrepreneurs who plant seeds and watched them grow. Hopkins. Didde. Sauder. Is there not anyone with the determination to match these great examples of starting their own business?

Brian Protheroe
San Francisco, CA

Posted by anonomom (anonymous) on August 16, 2008 at 3:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I would love to see a Lowe's come to Emporia. The facts are that the other retailers in town are NOT doing a good job of meeting the needs of the locals. We did extensive renovations a year ago and it was so darn frustrating to HAVE to go out of town for items because sutherlands didn't carry it. In the case of our countertops, we just wanted plain ol' in stock laminate counters. I waited for weeks for them to get a new shipment because they didn't have the sizes I needed, and finally had to give up and spend my money in topeka at home depot. Sutherlands and Mark II are great for some things, but more often than not I would find their prices to be a lot higher, or items out of stock.

Brian, there is so much I want to say to you but I don't think you would hear me, so I won't waste my breath. I think you are far out of touch with this community.

Anonomom
(my family is supported by a paycheck that comes from Bentonville, AR. Hate Walmart all you want, but let me tell you that they have been HANDS DOWN the best company we have ever been with. )

Posted by create (anonymous) on August 16, 2008 at 4:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Brian,

I know you probably mean well, but you're not being realistic here. First, I don't think it's fair that you cast aspersions at those who "live off a paycheck that comes from Bentonville, Arkansas." Many Emporians work there and they use those paychecks to support their families and the local economy in many ways. I consider what you said a put down of the good people who work there.

You talk as if entrepreneurs are leaning out of store windows all over the place around here. We aren't all millionaires and we can't just open up a plastics plant, or a metal fabricating plant, or manufacture printing presses. Sure there's lots of people willing to work hard, but to quote Jerry what's his name, "show me the money."

Why don't you come back and start your own business that will employ a lot of people? Home town boy makes good.

Posted by anonomom (anonymous) on August 16, 2008 at 4:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ok, I am going to say one thing.

I grew up in exactly the fairy tale you are suggesting. My parents were the entrepreneurs who bought up old buildings downtown (not Emporia, another small town) renovated them and for my entire childhood ran one business or another. They did the city commision, mainstreet commitees, worked HARD. You know what it got us?

We never had a vacation besides a quick weekend trip. When you own your own business there is no such thing as a vacation!!

My parents missed out on a lot of us growing up. They worked long, long hours. They didn't go on out of town sports, music concerts, etc.

My mom missed out on 30 years of potential 401K match had she stayed working for an employer.

My goodness it sounds so rosy and romantic to just open up a cute little coffee shop!! How wonderful, how quaint. Hardly. My parents enjoyed what they were doing but it was hard hard work and a lot of sacrifices. If you think a walmart employee has low wage or low benefits let me show you what my mom took home all those years. My parents have a lot of regret now about missing out on so much and for what? So an old building can look quaint and special?

If you know so much about what this town needs, why don't you come and put your money where you mouth is. And until you have, I don't think we need your opinon any further.

Posted by been_there (anonymous) on August 17, 2008 at 7:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I have no problem with new business coming to town and bringing in more jobs. I don't really like the location that has been selected for this proposed area of development. What about the 30+ acres that is already commercially zoned and currently For Sale north of Safeway? What about the strip of land between Dolly and Graphic Arts Rd? If they don't want to use the existing land where Big Lots now sits, I'm sure there are other areas where these business' could build.

Posted by momus (anonymous) on August 18, 2008 at 8:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

There are sites available where people COULD build throughout the entire community, but given our current development strategy, most big box businesses (and their developers) want to be located in extremely dense commercial locations.

We could talk about locations and reasoning behind placement forever, but this development proposal really just requires an answer to a much simpler question: does Emporia want to be a city of very few, extremely large national chains with little or no independent business, or do we want several independent businesses with very little influence from national chains? Most economists will tell you that sales for a trade area are a fairly fixed pie that only adjusts with population and incomes. That being said, some quick research from our latest market study showed that if you added up all constituent category sales in Emporia that would be covered by a Lowe's or Home Depot, you have between 27 and 28 million dollars sold per year. An average Home Depot or Lowe's sells between 30 and 35 million dollars worth of product per year. So, are we willing to trade every single home improvement store, carpet store, plumbing supply location, appliance store and other cross category retailer in town for one big box? Some are, and I would encourage those people to look at secondary effects. Particularly, if the mall looses Sutherlands and Sears due to competition, and have other businesses pull out to relocate in a new development (like Payless and Radio Shack have done), what happens to the mall? Do they simply shut down? And, if so, does Emporia loose it's only movie theatres? What happens to property taxes when a bunch of buildings sit empty and unfillable (thus decreasing their value)? What happens to sales tax revenues that were being generated by other businesses that are now dedicated to road projects in NW Emporia? What will corridors like 6th street look like without home improvement businesses?

Every action has a reaction. What do we want to be, Emporia? And, what are the consequences of those actions?

Posted by create (anonymous) on August 18, 2008 at 8:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

You're right for asking that question, momus. I can remember all the grief about businesses that close their doors as a result of Wal Mart coming to town. This will happen again if a Home Depot or Lowe's comes to town.

What exactly do people want with these stores? Is it range of choice? I can order any carpet or appliance I want from any of our local dealers and if they don't have it, they can order it.

My favorite hardware store is Water's. I don't care what I want, they have it or can get it. Besides, they have experts that can answer any question I have about home projects. What about Mark II? They sent someone out to measure for ONE storm window that I wanted. ONE!!! Hill's Appliance is my go-to for appliances. They deliver, set up, and service. What else can I want?

My point is this. Are we going to get this kind of personal service from a big box store? We destroy all our mom and pops for one big "sorry-if-you-don't-see-it-we-don't-have-it" place? No thanks!

Posted by create (anonymous) on August 18, 2008 at 8:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Postscript...You want to put in a store that will have everyone from many miles around beating feet to Emporia and won't destroy our local mom and pop's? Try for an IKEA.

Posted by Denise_Dorcey (anonymous) on August 18, 2008 at 9:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Thank you for so eloquently stating what I have been thinking, momus and create.

The next step is for all of us that don't want this to happen to attend the meeting discussing zoning changes.

Contrary to what some may say, I believe the voice of the people does and should be considered in all levels of governmental decision-making.

Posted by OutsiderJ (anonymous) on August 18, 2008 at 9:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This all sounds like a typical Emporia response to me. Months ago to present people have been on here screaming about bringing business and commerce and jobs to Emporia before we all go under.
Suddenly, there appears an opportunity to bring three brand spanking new, large, and profitable businesses to Emporia. Our troubles are over, hurray for business and commerce and jobs.
Then you find out where they want to put it and it goes to, "not in my backyard" and "put it somewhere else in town", etc. etc. etc.
Make up you minds Emporia. Seems to me that there is no way that this could be bad for your beloved Emporia. Still you keep your blinders on!!! I know I can count on the great and benevolent Emporians to drive away growth in favor of grass.

Posted by Denise_Dorcey (anonymous) on August 18, 2008 at 10:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Interesting use of words, "growth" in a case that is really urban sprawl, in my opinion.

There are already too many empty buildings sitting on concrete lots here. Those need to be filled up before we tear up any more "grass".

Whatever happened to thinking in terms of reuse, like our grandparents who lived through tough times knew so well?

It deeply concerns me what a disposable society we have become.

Posted by create (anonymous) on August 18, 2008 at 10:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Large? Yes. Profitable? I don't know about that. Those BIG businesses are retail outlets, not the kind of business we need. We need manufacturing or some sort of venture with the capacity to employ many people and offer them decent benefits, not minimum wage.

Bringing those biggies in will only mean a swan song for the businesses already here -- the ones who have stayed here in Emporia through thick and thin to ride out the economic seas, choppy or smooth sailing. I don't think I'm being pessimistic at all; instead I believe I'm being realistic. One giant would kill several little guys; I don't feel good at all about that.

Posted by lightenup (anonymous) on August 18, 2008 at 1 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ditto to what create just posted: "Bringing those biggies in will only mean a swan song for the businesses already here -- the ones who have stayed here in Emporia through thick and thin to ride out the economic seas, choppy or smooth sailing."

Our local businesses were homegrown by OUR people.

The money spent in homegrown businesses stays in Emporia, doesn't get sent to some "home office" in some other state.

I'm all for Emporia growing stronger and healthier in every which way possible, but especially at this stage of the game, Box Stores would not be an asset.

Let's put our collective energy into BRINGING JOBS TO TOWN- white collar jobs, blue collar jobs. Employment opportunities, the more varied the better.

That's what will save Emporia.

Posted by lightenup (anonymous) on August 18, 2008 at 1:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I think we should be dragging people off the turnpike to shop at BLUESTEM.

Destination shopping - in Emporia.

Bluestem is a classic, one-of-a-kind store. It's the Cabela's of the Farm and Ranch World.

My late step-dad wasn't a farmer or a rancher, he was a machinist, and whenever he came to town, he LOVED shopping at Bluestem.

We take it for granted 'cause it's always been here, but it's an amazing store.