Posted by crackinsack (anonymous) on August 12, 2008 at 4:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Jimmy,
“Staying away “can become quite a challenge when smokers are allowed to pollute wherever they please. You’re saying that I should forgo my right to clean air whenever there is a smoker about. I can see it now…”Sorry, boss. I’m late because there was a smoker on the sidewalk and I had to take the long way to work.” Or how about, “I can’t make it to class today because there’s a group of smokers outside the building.” I don’t think that would go over very well.
With smoking in public banned, what’s a smoker going to say? “Sorry boss, I’m late to work because I had to smoke at home.” Please… “How about you quit smoking?” (says the boss)

Granted, Ol’ Man Corbin’s argument is in regards to the establishment he owns. This “private property”, however, is open to the public. As a business, you are allowing anyone off the street to waltz onto your “private property”. A grocery store is private property, but they aren’t allowed to throw feces all over everyone who comes through the door. Why should you be allowed to subject us (and out-of-towners) to the smell and health hazards of cigarette smoke? At the very least, Corbin should have to post a sign on the door proclaiming,
“DANGER! Smokers inside! Do not enter if you care about your health or appearance.”
Or maybe…
“Private Property. Trespassers will die of lung disease.”

Posted by MrCmonkeeDo (anonymous) on August 12, 2008 at 4:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Who said you have a right to clean air?

Posted by slvrnblck (anonymous) on August 12, 2008 at 5:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I am in favor of the ban as well, but I am not a bible thumper as many have accused the pro ban people and I do not believe Ms. Walters to be either. I believe she is an individual who is not trying to take away the rights of others but is one who is out trying to protect her own right to clean air.

As far as the bar owners go, I have been back and forth on the issue as to whether or not they should have the right to do what they want with their property. After I really thought about it, I realized that if the ban passes, that the city would step in and say "No, you are not allowed to have smoking in your bar for the safety of your patrons and employees" I don't think that is such a bad thing. You don't have the right to do whatever you want with your business just because you own it.
In the past the government has stepped in when owners said you know what...."I don't like the "colored folks" so they are not allowed to come in here" or "Women don't belong in a bar!" It's there property....shouldn't they be allowed to do what they want with it. It doesn't infringe on my rights because I am a white man. Or maybe a better example would be that they allow the women and "coloreds" in but let's restrict them to a certain area. And you know what, if you don't like it you can always go somewhere else....right?

Posted by create (anonymous) on August 12, 2008 at 5:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Corbin should have to post a sign on the door..." See those two words, HAVE TO. You Teresa Walters people are all alike. You want to make hard and fast rules for everybody else to follow. Come on! Why should the sign editorialize? If he does post a sign at all, it should just say, "This is a smoking establishment." For those who don't smoke, beat feet.

After reading this post, I think I'll make a trip down to the Town Royal just to sign the petition. I'm not a smoker either.

Posted by MrCmonkeeDo (anonymous) on August 12, 2008 at 5:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

If MrC was to ever come across any clean air ya know what He'd Do?
He'd bottle it and sell it.

Eeeeeeeasy money.

Posted by josiesbar (anonymous) on August 12, 2008 at 5:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Crackinsack-

You are correct, as a business anyone can just waltz in off the street. And if you don't like the fact people are smoking, you can just waltz your happy @ss right back out on the street. No one is making you stay.

Let's say you absolutely cannot stand country music. Would you go to a business that plays country music? If you do, you have an understanding that country music will be played, and your time there will probably not be enjoyable. I feel the same applies to the smoking ban. If you don't like it, don't come in.

We are not a health club. If you want to be healthy, go to Walburn's. Don't go to a bar.

Matt Slater
Owner, Josie's

Posted by slvrnblck (anonymous) on August 12, 2008 at 5:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Mr. Slater, that is a good analogy except for the fact that country music does not do any harm to anyone. You are required to breathe to live. If you breathe in smoke it is harmful to you. So, common sense would say that if your business is open to the public meaning you serve everyone then I would think you would not want to put your patrons in harms way.

Posted by Emporiafan (anonymous) on August 12, 2008 at 5:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I used to be a smoker and even then I did not like to eat around a table of smokers....I don't think I am in favor of a ban of smoking anywhere but I sure would like to see some more restaraunts (that serve to families and kids) volunteer to go to non smoking. There is nothing worse than eating and two tables away people in the "smoking" section are puffing away and all that smoke lingers over your table...kind of ruins a meal. But I am sorry if you go to a bar you should just expect it. My husband and I go to bars and pretty much shed the clothes at the front door when we get home into the wash...but we know going that will happen and yeah...we will still go!

Posted by paulkersey (anonymous) on August 12, 2008 at 6:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Slvrnblck--

First, I am not even going to respond to your comment about "in harms way." I am sure that my definition of in harms way is dramatically skewed from yours.

Second-- You are correct that cigarette smoke is bad for you. So is the carbon emissions from your car. So is the saturated fat in the food you eat, so is the alcohol you drink, so is not getting enough exercise, the list goes on and on. I understand why some people think it is a good idea to ban smoking, however, I also want them to understand that by doing so, you could very well be affecting my livelihood, and possibly causing my business to close.

To those of you who want to go to businesses that don't allow smoking, open your own. There are plenty of empty buildings on Commercial. There will probably be a lot more if this ban passes.

Matt Slater
Owner--Josie's

Posted by josiesbar (anonymous) on August 12, 2008 at 6:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ok, that was wierd. I'm not sure why it logged me under a different name...

Posted by neighbor (anonymous) on August 12, 2008 at 6:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

LOL Matt, now we know the vigilante hangs out at your bar or in your home. :)

Posted by josiesbar (anonymous) on August 12, 2008 at 7 p.m. (Suggest removal)

vigilante?? I lost you on that one...

I DID find this response, right here in the gazette.

http://www.emporiagazette.com/news/2007/...

"When it first opened, I went into Wheatstate a couple of times, and the country music TV station was on. Over the past few years, I've periodically checked to see whether this continues. I like the food, but I won't eat in Wheatstate because of this. I know that some like pop country, but many who live here can't stand it. Muzak--elevator music--would be preferable. I'd add that in my business, I sometimes take visitors out to eat. It would be embarrassing to take a visitor to a restaurant that is playing country music, whether on TV or piped in. I want to support new businesses in Emporia, especially food services. I hope the new restaurant doesn't play country music. If it does, I won't support it."

If you don't like something, don't go there!

Posted by josiesbar (anonymous) on August 12, 2008 at 7:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

AHH! Charles Bronson's character in the Death Wish movies! Gotta love Google, haha. No, it wasn't me, but I know who it is!

Posted by sail (anonymous) on August 12, 2008 at 7:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Does anyone think that this will be the last time that this health intrest group will come before the city of Emporia?

Posted by flexj66801 (anonymous) on August 12, 2008 at 7:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I am a smoker, But I go out of my way not to infringe on anyone by my choices. When we go out to eat we sit in the non smoking sections. We also frequent establishments that do not offer smoking without any thought of being alienated. We feel that it is a courtesy for those who do not smoke. Its never been thought of as being unfair because after all it is our choice. But, When you tell a group of people they cannot do something, You are infringing on their rights. I feel that what is between the lines of this ban is a hint that some people have lost their connection with common courtesy.
I remember a day when if someone was doing something that bothered you in any way you could ask them to please not do that around you & usually you would get your wish. At the very worst you could always move far enough away not to be bothered by the person or their actions.
It scares me to think that we as a society have lost our sense of common sense. There are so many problems in our world these days. More issues than I care to count that demand peoples attention. And you know what, If people would dedicate themselves on these major problems then a lot of this countries problems would disappear.
It seems like everyone these days needs a "cause" to make themselves feel important. There are activist for this & activist for that, But none of them ever make a dent in any real problems.
You want to fight for clean air? Promote riding a bike, Organize a car pool to do your share to cut down on emmisions! There are a number of things you could do to help with cleaner air. What I am saying is try to eliminate a problem with a solution, Not another problem. The problem with the ban is that you are taking away the rights of the owners of the businesses who serve this little community. If it is smokers they cater to, So be it, If it is non smokers, So be it.... But it is their choice, Not yours or mine.

Posted by ratdog (anonymous) on August 12, 2008 at 8:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

If the "Red Hat Society" is gonna ban smoking in public, they better damn well ban farting in public, too. Everybody has "a right to clean air" you know.........

Posted by neighbor (anonymous) on August 12, 2008 at 9:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Bingo Josiesbar, that was what I was referring to. Old Charles B. is using your computer and failed to sign out when he or she was done.

Well said Flex.

Posted by crackinsack (anonymous) on August 13, 2008 at 10:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

josiesbar,
Being exposed to country music isn't harmful to your health (unless the volume is too high) nor does it leave a stench on you when you leave. Nice try!

Posted by kcfan (anonymous) on August 13, 2008 at 12:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I would fully support a smoking ban in other public areas. Did anyone else find it really tacky to see people smoking as they walked around the fair in areas with high numbers of kids?
That being said I DON NOT support the smoking ban in regards to bars. I agree with Matt and Corbin. It would put the bars in this town in jeopardy. If you want to go out to a DE (drinking establishment) without smoke visit The Blind.
Crackinsack stated “This “private property”, however, is open to the public.” Yes you are correct it is open to the public, but Corbin has the right to refuse service to ANYONE for ANY REASON. Wasn’t it was only about 10-15 years that city law didn’t require club memberships for DE’s to be open. Maybe that would be the solution to this issue. Go back to required club membership for admittance. That way it would be harder for groups like Clean Air to try and tell a PRIVATE Club (much like the Country Club) what they can and can not do

Posted by vmoore11 (anonymous) on August 13, 2008 at 1:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I agree with Corbin -- I am a smoker, but will go to restaurants that don't allow it -- that is my choice. Just like it is your choice if you walk into a bar, you know before you walk in that smoking is allowed, that is your choice. It's not any different than all the other things that are killing us like car emisions, fatty foods, etc. next thing you know they will be trying to tell us what we can and can't eat or serve in our own restaurants, because its bad for other people, so we can't have it either.

Posted by toninj (anonymous) on August 13, 2008 at 2:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

As I have said in past forums on this issue, I do not smoke, but I think it should be a choice individual business have. I have made the choice not to go to restaurants with my children that allow smoking and that is my choice. However, saying all of that I still believe we will see some sort of ban in Emporia as other towns in KS are doing the same thing. I think it can be a ban that doesn't hurt businesses though if enough people speak up.

The Following is an article on the smoking ban Manhattan has been working on. I think we will see some sort of ban pass in Emporia, but I think if enough people speak up and have their information together they could get one that works for everyone.

"A smoking ban in Manhattan is only a step away from becoming a sure thing. Tuesday night Manhattan City Commissioners approved an ordinance to ban smoking, but some establishments are exempt from the ban.

A cigarette with lunch is close to becoming a thing of the past in Manhattan restaurants, but restaurant owners aren't exactly complaining.

"It is to the point where the business owners or bar owners are willing to work something out with the city. We know changing times are coming and we need to make advancements in public health," says Kale Becker, restaurant co-owner and Aggieville Business Assoc. VP.

Advancements that come in the form of a smoking ban, with exemptions. Establishments with less than 30 percent of sales in food would be considered bars and could allow smoking all day. Restaurants with more than 30 percent of sales from food could allow smoking from 9 p.m. until 5 a.m.

"I think the commissioners who voted for the exemptions really did look at it as a rights issue. And it's not just a rights issue for businesses, it's a rights issue for individuals, as well, and very important," says Ed Klimek, Manhattan City Commissioner.

Klimek says with Lawrence's smoking ban before the State Supreme Court, he couldn't side with a total ban.

"That whole ordinance could be overturned by Kansas Supreme Court and we would be back to zero. I think it would be irresponsible to draft an ordinance off of that one until we find out what happens with State Supreme Court," says Klimek.

The Manhattan City Commission is expected to have the second and final reading of the smoking ban in four weeks. Until the final vote, city employees are researching how to implement the smoking ban. Under the ordinance places like bingo parlors, billiard halls and bowling allies are completely exempt from any ban."

Posted by sadinemporia (anonymous) on August 13, 2008 at 2:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The whole hoopla about smoking and lung cancer or other problems that go along with smoke just doesn't work for me anymore. I know way too many people who have been diagnosed with lung cancer and have never smoked a cigarette in their life. Once a person turns 18 in the United States, they are considered adults. When I think of an adult I think of someone who is capable of making their own choices, good or bad, but it is their CHOICE. Leave it as a choice instead of taking away our FREEDOM of choice.

Posted by admireed (anonymous) on August 13, 2008 at 2:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2008/aug/13...

Posted by slvrnblck (anonymous) on August 13, 2008 at 3:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Mr. Slater--

The list of items you named, aside from the car emmissions, is something that I may choose or not choose to do, but it is something that has no harmful byproduct that could harm anyone else. That is why smoking is different. Not only are you choosing to harm yourself, you are choosing to harm other people. Why is that so hard to understand? What I put in my body is my business until it infringes on the rights of another human being. Smoke, due to the fact that it can not be controlled, is a harmful byproduct that infringes on my rights.

Posted by josiesbar (anonymous) on August 13, 2008 at 5:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ok, here's the deal. Smoking is legal in the United States to persons over the age of 18. I do not allow anyone under the age of 18 in my establishment. Yes, I understand smoking is bad for you (I quit in Feb), and I also understand that smoking is bad for people around you. It isn't a sterile world. I do not force people to come here. When people come here, they understand that there will be second hand smoke. As I said before, if you want to go to a dance club that doesn't allow smoking, there are plenty of open buildings on Commercial. I'll even show you how to get a liquor license. Ask 707 how their non-smoking upstairs went for the 2 weeks it was non-smoking.

I also want to know how this is going to be enforced. If EFDA expects me to hire another person to ensure people aren't smoking, they better have some grant money available. My staff is already burdened enough trying to keep minors from drinking, let alone keeping people from smoking.

Posted by Kansan (anonymous) on August 13, 2008 at 8:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I think you restaurant/bar owners underestimate the number of people who are not frequenting your establishments because of the terrible smell! The smokers are a loud minority here.

Posted by dhcc66 (anonymous) on August 14, 2008 at 11:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

the ones who have been diagnosed with lung cancer who have never smoked have probably ingested too much second hand smoke, amongst other things.

Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on August 14, 2008 at 11:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I understand the nature of this proposal. But I tend to think the marketplace can be a far more effective lever.

My wife and I are non-smokers and we've decided not to frequent restaurants, clubs, etc. And we've been a lot better off because of it. The food here at home is immeasureably better. The wine and the Guiness costs far less. And the conversation is so much more enjoyable.

I would advise non smokers to just stop frequenting these places. Stay at home, eat some good food, enjoy a good conversation or play some board games or watch the Olympics.

I suspect if enough non smokers do this it will have an impact. Who knows, some restauranteurs or pub owners may discover that they's lost some of their most loyal patrons.

One thing I think would be interesting to look at is the amount of money non smokers spend in restaurants and their tipping habits vs. smokers. My intuition tells me that the establishment owners might just be losing a whole band of cash cows.

About the only places my wife and I go now are those establishments that offer really good food for special occasions. The tab is quite a bit higher, but the occasion warrants it. When we used to go to restaurants willy-nilly we found that we couldn't afford the really good restaurants. Now, once or twice a year, we can. Unfortunately, there are no places like that in Emporia.

It's a great arrangement. I highly recommend it to other non smokers.

Posted by Bjnemp (anonymous) on August 14, 2008 at 12:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

If we allow the self-perceived socially superior moral conscience of the community to get away with this assault on individual freedoms we are opening a dark door we may never be able to close behind us. Next the ladies of leisure will want to ban fast food because it makes people fat, and they don't approve of fat people. Then they may come after you lowlifes who enjoy a cold beer from time to time, or you degenerates who don't smell like designer cologne. These bored bastions of social consciousness have decided they don't like smoking or smokers and will not stop their crusade until they succeed in showing the world the extent of their right and might. These ladies need to get a job, take up golf, or at least champion a real cause like animal rights or allowing fireworks in city limits on Independence Day. These anti-smoking thugs are no better than Reverend Phelps and his Westboro Baptist banner-bearing barbarians from Topeka. Their idiocy and intent are similar. Only their tactics differ.

Posted by crackinsack (anonymous) on August 14, 2008 at 1 p.m. (Suggest removal)

netloafer,
It sounds to me like you're letting the smokers control your life. They've forced you into hiding so they can practice their bad habit in public. I don't think we should accommodate their addiction as you have.

Also, not everyone can cook as well as Mrs. Netloafer, you know. :)

Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on August 14, 2008 at 2:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

cracksinsack

I suppose. I think if I gave it some time I could come up with some logic to make this a civil rights issue. The problem is - this can cut two ways For instance, Wal-Mart is a public place, but smoking isn't allowed in there. Why aren't smokers complaining about that? Are they going to start demanding smoking sections there, ostensibly as a civil right. And what about the courthouse? That's a public place too. And then you'd be getting into the whole thing as to whether or not you'd have smoking and non smoking sections of the jury box and so forth. Would Wal-Mart have to double their sections to accomodate a smoking and non-smoking sporting goods section, etc.

So I think I understand what you're saying, but I don't feel especially deprived, and I'm not in hiding (yet, anyway). I pop up occasionaly to do some rhetorical wrasslin' with the commissioners or walk the dogs. I've even been spotted flying the flag from my front portch. But nowadays I don't even think things like "Applebee's would be good tonight" or "Wouldn't some pub grub at Bruff's be great?" To be honest, the food in most restaurants in this town that isn't as good as what you'd get out of your own microwave. There are a few exceptions - Bobby D's or the Mexican restaurant in the strip mall where Dillon's used to be.

I suspect my position is easy to poke holes in. All I can think to say is that I haven't seen the pro-smoking gestapo lined up along Merchant and Commercial. If/when that happens you can count on me to bring my 33 ounce Lousiville Slugger (Kirby Puckett model) to join the fray.

If smokers want to have lungs that look like blast furnaces they can have at it. And when they come to me after they've developed lung cancer asking me why I didn't warn them I'm gonn'a tell them I'm fresh out of sympathy. Or when they sue the tobacco companies for lacing their product with nicotine I'm going to remind them they did what they did of their own volition and that the last thing in the world they seem to want is someone stuffing ordinances in their faces or lectures on the dangers of smoking. If they want to spend their sunset years wheezing through oxygen bottles I say "Feel free!"

I'd bet that your significant other, whether it's Mr. or Mrs. Cracksinsack, is a good cook as well, and probably plays a mean hand of pinochle to boot.

Posted by neighbor (anonymous) on August 14, 2008 at 6:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Wal-Mart is a public place, but smoking isn't allowed in there. Why aren't smokers complaining about that? Are they going to start demanding smoking sections there, ostensibly as a civil right. And what about the courthouse? That's a public place too."

My side of the aisle has been pointing out all along that the need for an ordinance is moot. The biggest majority of ALL restaurants in Emporia are already smoke free, most every retail store in E-Town are already smoke free(the tobacco store across from DQ is the only place I'm aware of that still allows smoking), all government buildings are smoke free, the schools(public, private and ESU), hospital, the courthouse, the library, etc are all smokeless. Besides the bars and small handful of restaurants, where else would the ordinance be necessary or effective?

They won't stop at banning smoking in public service buildings. Privately owned businesses are not public buildings by the way. The Carrie Nations of tobacco will declare war on any public smoking whatsoever next, or something else that offends their noses. I can't help but laugh about the hypocrisy of claiming it's best for everyone's health to stop smoking at bars so non-smokers can go destroy their livers consuming alcohol as well.

I'll take your wager that non-smokers tip better than smokers net.

Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on August 14, 2008 at 8:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Neighbor

I'd wager that you're right.