So focused has the United States been on the Muslim world since 9/11, the growing war between Russia and Georgia comes as a nasty surprise to the American public.
This Georgia is one of the states that arose from the breakup of the Soviet Union. It is nestled between Russia and Turkey on the Black Sea. Georgia has pursued close ties with Europe and the United States and has even sought membership in NATO. Its military has been trained and armed by the United States.
So far, the battle has centered over a small breakaway piece of Georgia that has close ties with Russia. But over the weekend, Russia planes attacked the airport in the Georgian capital of Tbilisi. If it comes to all-out war, who will win? Russia, certainly. Georgia’s armed forces total only 18,000. They are well-equipped, but so are the massive Russian forces that can be arrayed against them.
It is tempting to quickly choose sides in this war. Georgia has ties with the United States. Russia has been sinking back into a chauvinistic semi-isolation that makes it apparent that the early U.S. dream of a brother democracy arising from the ashes of the Soviet Union ignored economic and political realities.
But it is important not to get caught up in the “Poor little Georgia” mindset. In his own way, Georgia’s President Mikhail Saakashvili is as responsible for this little war as Vladimir Putin. Putin, as prime minister, continues to rule Russia just as he did as president. Saakashvili miscalculated just how far Putin could be pushed before responding with armed force. Today, Georgia is paying for that miscalculation.
That is not to say that the United States does not have a stake in the survival of Georgia. As a nation, the little country is not perfect, but it is a working democracy.
Western Europe has an even larger stake, even though it is afraid of annoying Russia. Europe’s stake comes down to oil. Right now, Russia controls the pipelines that provide almost all of the continent’s oil and gas. The only exception is the oil that is piped through Georgia. Those pipelines keep Russia from having a virtual monopoly on energy in Europe.
This is not a time to rattle sabers. The solution to the conflict between Georgia and Russia is not military action, but diplomacy. Georgia, wisely, has asked for an end to the fighting and said it has withdrawn its troops from the disputed region.
The role of the United States in the conflict — if there is one — should be as a mediator.
Both Putin and Bush were in Beijing for the opening of the Olympics on Friday. Bush says they talked.
That is a beginning.
Comments
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Posted by alfalfa (anonymous) on August 11, 2008 at 6:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I have to wonder what the odds are that Patrick Kelley might be the reincarnation of Neville Chamberlin.
Posted by open_eyes (anonymous) on August 11, 2008 at 6:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
True. The solution SHOULD always be diplomacy, not military action. But both sides need to do it. It doesn't work if one side sits there and talks, while the other side bombs away. It looks like Russia is in no mood to talk. Except after they have Georgia completely and firmly under their thumb again. Then they'll be all ready to talk away...... but not till their objectives have been reached....
Posted by create (anonymous) on August 11, 2008 at 7:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
You're right about this being Saakashvili's fault. What made him think that he could shake the cage of the Russian Bear just to claim a tiny piece of real estate? Of course that doesn't mean that Russia could unleash bombing of civilians but they did. Now many innocents are dead, and Saakashvili runs to the European powers and the U.S. for help. Why didn't he confer with those powers to begin with?
Of course diplomacy is called for. However, something else to think about -- tonight's news showed the many oil storage tanks along the Black Sea in Georgia. There's more to this than a piece of real estate. Whoever controls Georgia controls the flow of oil to Europe.
Posted by peacebrothers (anonymous) on August 11, 2008 at 7:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Russia is stupid if they continue to rattle their sabers. If they can just hold out until after the US elections they can probably have Georgia without firing another shot. I am sure Obama would stick his head in the sand on the part of Georgia and Mc Cain wouldn't have near the proactive stance that Bush will have if Russia persists in the prosecution of this war against it's neighbor. I think restraint on the part of Russia is the success path for them. I do not think that talking has ever been a great weapon of war. I might be overlooking the Cold War when Regan said " tear down this wall". I think that may have been an isolated instance of talk effectiveness as a weapon of war. Guns have a much greater success rate than talks have ever had. I think Mr. Kelly may be falling on the side of cowardice, much like Obama.
Posted by create (anonymous) on August 11, 2008 at 7:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Right now, those guns you speak of have killed a large number of civilians in Georgia.
Posted by Weltha (anonymous) on August 11, 2008 at 7:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Actually as long as we are going to go there. The people holding those guns killed the civilians... Someone had to pull the trigger. Just saying...
Posted by peacebrothers (anonymous) on August 11, 2008 at 8:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The winners of this conflict will be the ones with the greater fire power, not the ones with the greater speaking power. "The pen is mightier than the sword", is an old proverb. If it were so, countries would stockpile great amounts of writing instruments and not the standard munitions of war. I never said guns and war were good, only that they are effective. I do believe that if Russia were to just wait for a softer president of the USA they could win their war and fire less shots.
Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on August 11, 2008 at 8:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Pat Kelley has a very interesting slant on this. He'd make a great defense lawyer.
Don't the "really good" ones blame the victim. The rape victim had it coming because she dressed too seductively. The victim of a mugging is blamed because he/she carried too much money in the wrong part of town. Using that train of thought, it's not much of a stretch to blame Mikheil Saakashvili and the people of Georgia for the carnage.
My wife and I know a young woman from Georgia. She's studied in the U.S. for close to five years now. Her provocative act was studying hard and hoping to make a real difference in Georgia. Right now she's in Georgia trying to renew her student visa. We hope she's safe, but we don't know since we haven't heard from her.
It's really easy to call for patience. There are no Russian planes buzzing over our heads. We don't hear the rumble of tanks in the streets or bullets whizzing around. I suspect things are a bit different in Georgia, though.
Mr. Kelley needn't worry. The U.N. isn't going to do anything. Europe isn't. Nor are we. Vladimir Putin knows this as does Patrick Kelley.
I can hardly wait for the follow-up editorial when all the pillaging and plundering is done. Something along the lines of "Well, they had it coming to them anyway."
Posted by bdprotheroe (anonymous) on August 11, 2008 at 8:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm not an advocate for war, but all things being equal...
I have heard plenty about Russia invading the Republic of Georgia, but very little of the spotlight has be given to the fact that the Republic of Georgia had begun assaults upon South Ossetia. There's more to the story than we've been told.
This is a case of three siblings, much like my own brothers. Perhaps that same sibling rivalry exists in your family? The middle brother (a.k.a. Republic of Georgia) was picking fights with the younger and smaller brother (a.k.a. South Ossetia). It's just my take on the information I've heard and read, but... being an eldest sibling myself, the big brother (a.k.a. Russia) is coming in to stop the Republic of Georgia from bullying South Ossetia.
One could say "poor little Georgia," but I fear that may be misleading. All three have equal fault in this matter. Ask any baby-sitter.
Brian Protheroe
San Francisco, CA
Posted by bdprotheroe (anonymous) on August 11, 2008 at 9 p.m. (Suggest removal)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Sout...)
Posted by alfalfa (anonymous) on August 11, 2008 at 10:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
This is hardly a case of Russia coming to the defense of a "baby brother" although Pravda and the other Russian news outlets wisely go along with Putins line on this. Since I am not certain who to believe, I have trolled the international news sites this weekend since this began. Perhaps not unpredictably, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and the Ukraine all seem to be in Georgia's corner. It is true that the attack on South Ossetia triggered the Russian incursion, but if you read news reports from the region in the days leading up to this, evidently some attacks were being carried out on Georgia proper from the breakaway state. Tonight the CBS news put forth the notion that Russia and Putin have been planning this for sometime, CBS is hardly a warmonger and certainly not my favorite news source, I figured they would take the Patrick Kelley point of view but seemed fairly firm in reporting Russia is the bad guy in this. Putin is ex KGB, and I think that should say volumes about the mans mindset. Also on the CBS news was a clip of Bush addressing Georgians in 2005 saying, "we will stand with you" reminded me of his father's encouragement to the Kurds to rebel against Saddam after the first Gulf war, and how we stood by and let them get slaughtered. Georgia has backed us in the Iraq war, sending 2000 troops, about 10% of their total armed forces. I would imagine that they thought in return they could count on the USA to stand up against aggression from a potential bully, such as Russia.
I have soaked in as much news tonight as possible, everyone from the BBC to Fox seems to believe in the long run this is about the Ukraine. Russia is not happy about any west leaning nations on her border, and is testing the waters as to how the west will react to outright aggression.
Mr. Kelley, with all due respect, spouts the very predictable far left drivel about talk and diplomacy. I doubt if someone broke into his house and began beating him he would want the neighbors to come over and sit in a chair and visit with the attacker about perhaps stopping at some point, maybe just short of killing him. He would want someone to call the police, and for the police to stop the attack, or more likely he and society would expect the neighbor to intervene. The left is always going on about how little respect we get in the world because of Iraq, I think we lose respect because we cannot be counted on to back those who back us, with anything but talk. This is a tough call, we surely don't want all out war with Russia, but talking with Putin will get nowhere, he and the Russian army are going to carry out their objectives while the world talks, and civilians die. Those civilians will remember how little support they got from the west, and the other ex Soviet bloc nations will be scratching their heads trying to figure out just who is the best ally in this world.
Posted by jayhawker (anonymous) on August 11, 2008 at 11:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I wonder how Pat Kelley would have editorialized on the David and Goliath fight. No doubt, he would have described David as the aggressor before the fight, condemning him for "rock rattling." I'm not sure what he would have said after the rock hit the big guy between the eyes, but I suspect that he would have argued that sling shooting rocks should not have happened without first giving the first 42 UT (United Tribes) Resolutions a chance to succeed, never mind that David would have been long dead by then. After all, violence, even in self defense, is never justified, especially if you can drop your sling shot, tuck your tail and run like hell. Who knows, Goliath might have really been a nice man who was grossly misunderstood, resulting from a poor childhood and misguided associations. Now, because of his vicious and unjustified murder at the hands of a blood thirsty twelve year old, whose parents should never have allowed him to own a loaded sling shot in the first place, we will never know. This case is proof that sling shots should never be entrusted to a pre-teen and rocks should be regulated so that they don't fall into the wrong hands. What kind of monster was that David, anyway?
(Welcome back, bdprotheroe)
Posted by create (anonymous) on August 12, 2008 at 7:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Netloafer,
I hope you hear from the young lady from Georgia before long, and that she is okay. I taught this bright, talented youngster when she was a senior in high school and since this war, have thought of her often. As I recall, she is from the Black Sea coastal region, far west of the fighting.
The good news this morning is that Russia has stopped military action. We can only wait and see.
Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on August 12, 2008 at 8:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Create
Thanks!
We haven't heard anything yet. We are hoping and praying for good news.
My wife and I also host a young student from the Republic of Moldova. We've known her for close to five years now. She's also very special.
There's an uncanny resemblence between Moldova and Georgia. Russia has packed a couple of small regions of Moldova with Russian citizens as a means of exerting influence through intimidation in Moldovan politics. As in Georgia Russia finds ways to get troops into these regions to ensure that the native Moldovans don't get uppity.
I'll never forget a face to face encounter we had with the politics of this region about four years ago. Our young Moldovan had heard there was another Moldovan student attending E.S.U. who wanted to meet her. We arranged it. I noticed something peculiar at dinner. Our student seemed agitated, the other Moldovan student seemed quite assertive. After dinner our student came to me and pleaded with me to take the other girl home. She went with me and on the way home she told me that the girl wasn't Moldovan, but Russian. She also told me that what upset her was that the Russian girl told her that she was to speak her language (Russian) and to do her bidding. When I found out I was furious. I got in touch with the Russian girl and told her that unless she treated our student as an equal she would no longer be welcome in our home. I honestly don't think she understood or cared what I thought or our student thought.
This encounter taught me at a micro level what the realities of the region are at a macro level. It's Putin's, and Russia's bidding, above all else.
I've seen others comment here about the situation, citing sources like wikepedia or a favorite columnist. I'm sure we all have our favorites. For me this is quite different. This crisis has faces, names, and souls attached to it. As far as sources go, I would trust the judgment of our Moldovan student or the young woman from Georgia over Pat Kelley or wikipedia any day.
It also troubles me that some seem to think this is nothing more than an amusing little spat between brothers and sisters.
Keep praying!
Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on August 12, 2008 at 10:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)
bdprotheroe
A linke to an op-ed from the President of the Republic of Georgia follows:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB12184130...
The Op-Ed is admittedly from a subjective source. I do, however, suspect it's much closer to the truth than any information gleaned from wikipedia.
Here is a sample of what he had to say about South Ossetia:
"We have worked hard to peacefully bring Abkhazia and South Ossetia back into the Georgian fold, on terms that would fully protect the rights and interests of the residents of these territories. For years, we have offered direct talks with the leaders of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, so that we could discuss our plan to grant them the broadest possible autonomy within the internationally recognized borders of Georgia."
And here's another:
"But Europe kept its distance and, predictably, Russia escalated its provocations. Our friends in Europe counseled restraint, arguing that diplomacy would take its course. We followed their advice and took it one step further, by constantly proposing new ideas to resolve the conflicts. Just this past spring, we offered the separatist leaders sweeping autonomy, international guarantees and broad representation in our government."
And this:
"Our offers of peace were rejected. Moscow sought war. In April, Russia began treating the Georgian regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia as Russian provinces. Again, our friends in the West asked us to show restraint, and we did. But under the guise of peacekeeping, Russia sent paratroopers and heavy artillery into Abkhazia. Repeated provocations were designed to bring Georgia to the brink of war."
Who am I to believe? Wikipedia? You? Or Mikheil Saakashvili?
Posted by create (anonymous) on August 12, 2008 at 10:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Netloafer,
Thanks for info on our gal from Georgia. I will join you in prayer for her and her countrymen.
That is valuable anecdotal evidence you have there about the Moldovan and the Russian women. Yes, we can definitely see how the micro informs the macro.
Thanks also for that op-ed piece in the WSJ. Very informative and helps put things into perspective for me.
Posted by open_eyes (anonymous) on August 12, 2008 at 11:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)
We all know from past experience that it will take at least 17 UN resolutions before anything gets done, and then not by the UN. So I'm glad the UN had an emergency session - maybe they can get the first 16 passed today..... How many resolutions are they up to by now on Darfur? Iran? Maybe the UN should just set up a board like this where they can all blog each other into submission.... :)
Great stories about the Georgian. It is good so many people here have a personal face to put on this war - keep us posted, and we'll all continue to pray for the best...
Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on August 12, 2008 at 3:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Create, open-eyes, and others interested:
This is the latest my wife and I have on the young woman from the Republic of Georgia. Just to orient you briefly - Batumi is in the southwest part of the country along the Black Sea bordering Turkey. It isn't even remotely close to Abkhazia or South Ossetia. But, based on the op-ed and the comments of some, she must have done something terrible to provoke Mr. Putin and had it coming to her:
“M is still stuck in Batumi. T talked to her yesterday morning and they had bombed just outside her city all night long. Every bomb shook their house and their beds. M said you just lay there and wonder if the next one will hit your apartment building. Many of her friends and people she knows in other towns have lost their homes to the bombing.
One of their relatives is a doctor. He had been moved closer to the front line to help with the casualties. He said that the whole area smells of rotting flesh. They had several thousand bodies piled up around their hospital with nowhere to put them. They were out of the meds and things that they needed to treat the wounded. The whole area was filthy and in total chaos.
She said all the hospitals in the country were full and overflowing. There was nowhere else to bring the wounded. The women spend most of their days and nights in the church crying out to God to have mercy on their loved ones and to spare their country from the Russians. I can't even imagine what it must be like to live in a country that is at war. I know that it happens every day... somewhere in the world.. but... it is so sad.
The embassy is open Thursday, Friday and Monday for visas. It is still possible. We believe in miracles!”
Posted by open_eyes (anonymous) on August 12, 2008 at 3:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)
netloafer, all I can say is.... wow....
Do ya think the Russian military is taking as many pains as the American military does to minimize civilian casualties? Doesn't sound like it...... I expect the anti-American military protesters in Berkely to organize a huge anti-Russian military demonstration just any day now...... but I won't hold my breath.....
Posted by create (anonymous) on August 12, 2008 at 5:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Netloafer,
It is so good to hear that you spoke to M. I wish there were something we could do to help her get back to Emporia. I pray she gets her visa soon. Thanks for keeping us apprised.
Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on August 13, 2008 at 8:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Create
Thanks. I haven't spoken with M directly. The report I shared was from the American host family who she lived with when she first came to America. They have spoken to her, on Monday I believe.
Communications are becoming increasingly difficult. Russian tanks and armored personnel carriers have been seen entering Gori. Journalists are also being told to leave the area. These don't seem to be very hopeful signs. Quite ominous indeed.
I will pass on any updated information I get on M.
Posted by create (anonymous) on August 13, 2008 at 10:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Thank you, netloafer. Yes, I'm familiar with that family.
As of this morning, conditions in Georgia sound grave and it looks like we are sending troops to deliver humanitarian aide. We can only hope it doesn't escalate.
Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on August 13, 2008 at 5:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Create
The latest word we now have is that M is unable to get a visa.
The crisis seems to be deepening. There are reports that Russian tanks and APC's are moving south toward Tblisi. Georgia's president is saying that the capital has been effectively isolated and surrounded by the Russian advance/assault.
This makes my blood boil. Even more so when I consider Pat Kelley's editorial and some of the commentary about this being nothing more than a little family spat.
Hey, what the hell, it's only six million people give or take a few, provocateurs to a man if Pat Kelley and some are to be believed.
Posted by bdprotheroe (anonymous) on August 13, 2008 at 6:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Well, let me make it clear, I haven't any wish for harm for the citizens of any of these countries/republics. All I am saying is there are a lot of facts that have not yet risen to the surface. Before we make any harsh and rash decisions, we need to look at all angles of the situation. To pursue peace, even if warfare becomes necessary, we must do everything in our power to demonstrate a desire for understanding.
Wouldn't it be nice for all the nations of the world to be able to get along, and be able to solve all disagreements diplomatically? Sure, we can easily point fingers to those nations that have not lived up to their end of agreements, but that doesn't mean warfare should ever be an immediate excuse.
Sorry to sound as if I live life looking through rose-colored glasses, but I believe it is most important for us to use diplomacy for as long as possible before engaging in warfare. We may not agree with the U.N. 100%, but we must work diligently with them to find solutions. Yes, we have much to protect, at home and abroad. But, if history has taught us anything, we should consider compromise before bloodshed.
We've come a long way since WWI, WWII, Korea and Vietnam. If the US is truly a world power, dare I say "the world police," then we must set an example but utilizing all methods of diplomacy before resorting to bullets and bombs.
I realize their are nations with dictators in command who fail to understand the art of compromise. But, before we resort to their opwn tactics and place our sons and daughters in harms way, should we not resort ourselves to every means of peace possible. (That doesn't mean compromising our own security.)
BP
SF, CA
Posted by open_eyes (anonymous) on August 13, 2008 at 9:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Well, diplomacy worked. Uh, in theory, anyway. They negotiated a cease-fire, and both sides agreed to pull back to their original positions. Which the Russians promptly ignored and used as an opportunity to further their position without resistance.
Well, at least they TRIED diplomacy.......
Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on August 13, 2008 at 9:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)
bdprotheroe
I don't I ever said one thing about not wanting to comprimise. If you've painted me as someone who is advocating war, you have badly misjudged. Look back through what I've written and see if you find a call for war. What you will see is frustration with the fact that little can be done and little will be done for the Georgians. I think Vladimir Putin knows this quite well, as does Mr. Kelley. I think you may even know it as well.
What I was saying and what I don't like is hearing that the victims are to be considered the provocateurs, which is precisely what Pat Kelley wrote. It's tantamount to calling the rape victim the instigator. That may work in Patrick Kelley's world or yours, but not mine. Nor do I like the notion that innocent Georgians being bombed and killed in the own land are part of nothing more than a little inter-family spat, which is what you wrote. As I've said before, this crisis has a human face and soul attached to it for my wife and myself. I don't believe that she or the people of Georgia are nothing more than flotsam and jetsam in this grisly equation.
I'm reminded of a snippet from the 1970's musical - "someone's got to be oppressed." Given the circumstances it might as well be the people of Georgia, right? God forbid that it would be editorial page editors in Emporia, Kansas or professionals in San Francisco. If that were to happen you could bet your last paycheck that the drums of war would be beating down at 517 Market or along the Embarcadero.
Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on August 14, 2008 at 8:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)
bdprotheroe
I just read the morning news. The status quo is intact.
There are a couple of links that follow. The first is an op-ed penned today my Mikheil Saakashvili. The second is a piece from "The U.K. Guardian" quoting Sergei Ivanov, Russia's deputy foreign minister. The money quote is this:
"We recognise the sovereignty and independence of Georgia ... But territorial integrity, it's just another matter," he told BBC's Hardtalk."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug...
Old fashioned fool that I am I'm still attached to the old fashioned notion that territorial integrity and sovereignity and independence go together, like love and marriage.
I've given it some thought and I think I've come up with a negotiated settlement that might be acceptable.
Since there are two breakaway republics at issue here I think it would be good to offer the Russians two replacements. First, I say we give them 517 Merchant - the presses, PC's, office furniture, the portraits of Teddy Roosevelt, William Allen White, the reporters, sales people, administrative personnel - the whole kit and kaboodle. Second, I propose we give them your neighborhood in San Francisco - the fire hydrants, the parks, the trendy shops, the the garretts and lofts, the merchants, the cops on the beat, and yada yada yada.
How about it? You and Pat Kelley seem to be fond of the art of the deal. Myself? I think it just might work on more than a few levels. First, since Russia seems to be so bent on restoring its pride, this would be a coup of enormous proportions. Having a foothold in America would do Vladimir Putin's prestiege a lot of good. Second, it would free up the Georgians and the breakaways to establish terms of sovereignty/autonomy (which the Georgians are very willing to give). Third, it would be peaceful. Fourth, while it may hit America's national pride briefly, I think we'll soon come to our senses and see that we haven't really given up that much.
Posted by alfalfa (anonymous) on August 14, 2008 at 9:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Anyone ever consider what would happen if middle America would decide to break away from the rest of the USA? Our government claims to champion self determination, I wonder just how far that goes, does it extend to this nation?
I agree it would be great if all the world could talk things out, strum the guitar and sing "Kum Ba Ya" (SP??). Sadly, not everyone in the world is as enlightened as those on both coasts and in the Gazette office. On a local level this is evidenced by the fact we still need a police force. Nobody ever wants a war, but sometimes a little war fought early, and against the advice and wishes of the Pat Kelleys of the world will help to avoid a much bigger and costlier war fought years later.
I think Georgia is a done deal now, but we better get our ducks in a row to deal with Russia if it goes after the Ukraine, either that or quit telling other countries "we will stand with you" only to watch them fall.
Posted by peacebrothers (anonymous) on August 14, 2008 at 9:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)
guardian,
If we were to do that, then who would write the ignorant op ed articles?
Posted by create (anonymous) on August 14, 2008 at 9:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Netloafer,
I feel your frustration. It grieves me to hear that M. can no longer obtain a Visa. Classes begin today at ESU, and I had pictured her being there. God Bless her. What a bright and shining girl she is. Let us continue to pray.
The morning news brings reports of refugee camps being formed near Tbilisi, and that people from all over Georgia are going there. At least our aide shipments have landed nearby, but late last night reports indicated that some airports had been sabotaged by Russians. Plus, we have no way to get the aide to the people.
Yesterday, as I watched continual breaking news, I caught one CNN reporter trying to interview Russian troops as they moved toward Tbilisi. The troops he did manage to speak to were drunk and bellicose. That alone painted a very dangerous picture.
I was one of those in the beginning who believed that Georgia should have not rattled the Bear's cage by trying to gain Ossetia. After reading articles by Georgia's president, and listening to the way Russia is handling this, I have changed my mind. And it is not only because I too can put a face that I know to this struggle, but it is because I can see what is unfolding, and it doesn't look like Russia is the least bit interested in diplomacy.
To me, the worst part of the entire picture starts to develop as soon as refugees start streaming into camps. They have no choice, of course, but it brings up images of the Balkans in my mind.
At this point, Russians say they will return the city of Gori by the end of the day. We shall see. Their promises don't seem to carry much weight.
I continue to pray for M.
Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on August 14, 2008 at 9:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Create
Thanks. I think prayer is the most powerful option we can pursue now. I pray for M. I pray for the people of Georgia. And, I pray that any resolution to this crisis respects this little Republic's territorial integrity.
Posted by open_eyes (anonymous) on August 14, 2008 at 7:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Let's see now... hmm.... what "diplomacy" will convince Russia to stop its aggression..... perhaps a UN Security Council resolution? Which Russia is one of the permanent members of? Anyone think they will vote against themselves???? Not that any resolution the UN has ever passed in history has ever been worth a plugged nickel.....
Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on August 17, 2008 at 6:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Create, Open_Eyes, Others:
This is the latest we have on M.
She is safe up to this point. If she can get out of Georgia at all it will be September 2nd at the earliest. The university is still holding her fellowship open for her and will as long as possible.
Both parties have signed the truce. However, Russian tanks are roaming the roads, sometimes moving from Gori to within 20 miles of Tblisi. M lives in the southwest part of Georgia on the Black Sea. The Russians have cut off almost all except local phone service. Internet is being blocked. I suspect the Russians don't want the world to know what's really going on. She was able to get one cell phone call out to give this latest report, but will be unable to get another one out. The Russians have also bombed all the bridges going into and out of her city. They have blockaded the port..
This does not appear to be leading to a satisfactory resolution as far as I can see. I suppose if I could just view this all as a little squabble within a family I'd be better off for it. I could just keep sipping my latte' and pretend that everything is OK.
I still say we should give the Russians San Francisco and Pat Kelley's little corner of Merchant Street in exchange for M and her country.
Forgive my cynicism. I really mean no ill toward anyone posting here. I'm just expressing my frustration.
Posted by create (anonymous) on August 17, 2008 at 8:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I certainly understand your frustration, netloafer. To see on TV those Russian troops ducking from view as soon as the western journalists aim cameras in their direction, I don't think they would be interested in Pat Kelley because of what he represents -- freedom of the press. Just a little levity here, no harm intended. But it certainly proves what you say is true, that the Russians don't want the rest of the world to know what is happening.
I appreciate you providing an update on M. I say this tearfully because it appears that it will be very difficult for her to get out at all if the port and all the routes out of the city are blocked. But where there's a will, there's a way. I firmly believe that.
The teacher in me sees that there's a lesson here for our kids at home, or all of us for that matter. How easily we all just grab a cell phone or get on the Net to make a quick communique with anyone in the world. Then off we go to continue our day. Oh, how precious is our democracy that allows us to take those freedoms in stride. Now we see how overnight, those same freedoms once cherished by the Georgians, have been stripped away. Let us be thankful for what we have.
I'm glad that the university will keep her fellowship for awhile longer. Where there's a will there's a way.
Through these posts, I hope many who read here are now keeping our bright and talented M in their prayers.
You may not know it netloafer, but I live on your street. Today, I am going to go buy some yellow ribbon and tie it around one of the trees in my front yard. When M. comes back to Emporia, she can help me take it down.
Posted by open_eyes (anonymous) on August 20, 2008 at 4:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
From info I've seen from various reporters that have gotten to the area, it appears that Russia intentionally started a revolt in the breakaway province, knowing that Georgia would have to respond. They have been massing troops and equipment on the border for months. They had this all planned. They have had people on the inside stoking the fires - this entire scenario has went according to plan. It also seems that they are continually signing cease-fires and other things and then promptly ignoring them. Seems an easy way for them to get the other side to give no resistance.
Diplomacy takes at least 2 to work.
Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on August 23, 2008 at 5:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Here's the latest update on M. This is an email directly from her on the 22nd:
"Thank you so much for your love and support. As long as I am alive I will never ever forget your love and help. Russian troops are still here. East and west Georgia is blocked, Russian troops are controlling Gori. Roads are closed; railway station is not functioning because they bombed bridge. The only way to get from Batumi to Tbilisi is by flying but it is very expensive. It takes 40 minutes to get in Tbilisi from Batumi and it costs 200 dollars just one way. They are promising every day that they will open roads and troops will leave. I called today at the U.S. Embassy in Tbilisi and they told me that earliest I can have an appointment is Wednesday (August 27th) at 8:30am."
There are some reports that the Russians are leaving. I pray that's true. If that's the case it will be up to us and the people of Georgia to sort through the rubble, pick the pieces up, and rebuild.
Posted by create (anonymous) on August 23, 2008 at 8:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I also pray that those Russian troops leave and roads to Tblisi open very soon. Time is now of the utmost concern since to change the date on her airline ticket back to the U.S. will be costly and difficult. I do know that Senator Roberts office did contact the American Embassy there in Tbilisi to ask questions, but there is nothing he can do for her since she is not an American citizen. I understand that. Still it is frustrating. The yellow ribbon awaits her return.
Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on August 24, 2008 at 6:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)
This morning's the U.S.S. McFaul entered the Georgian port of Batumi.
There are another four American ships due in Batumi this coming week.
This is good news.
For those who are assuming we are again the bad guys rattling sabres, the McFaul is carrying 72 pallets of humintarian aid,
Those who know and love M are trying to make arrangements for her to fly from Batumi to Tblisi to get the visa. If she does, then the next hurdle will be getting out of Georgia.
Posted by create (anonymous) on August 24, 2008 at 9:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The port being open at Batumi is a good sign, particularly because humanitarian aid is desperately needed.
Yes, things are looking up for M too. The news is encouraging, and at last, she has a real appointment at the American Embassy in Tblisi with regard to her Visa. Dear friends in Kansas are working hard to help her amid impossible odds. May her final flight plans back to the United States be smooth and free of snags. God Bless M.
Posted by create (anonymous) on August 26, 2008 at 1:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Tomorrow morning is M's appointment in Tbilisi with the American Embassy to obtain her Visa. Let us pray she will be able to get back to Emporia. Here is a link to the story that appeared in the The Bulletin, Emporia State's newspaper, this week. Now you will see her face and know her name.
http://www.esubulletin.com/articles/news...
Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on August 26, 2008 at 1:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Create
I think things may work out in the end, but there are snags. Right now M is trying to withdraw funds from an ATM and is having difficulty, It seems that grace is going to be needed each step along the way in this process.
I read the piece in the Bulletin. Thanks for the link.
Posted by create (anonymous) on August 26, 2008 at 3:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Netloafer,
Oh yes, grace indeed. This entire experience has been frought with snags, from the error made by ESU foreign student department in the very beginning, to problems she is experiencing now. At least she is now in Tbilisi and can make that appointment tomorrow morning. A couple of days ago, we didn't even have that much. This has been an inch by inch process.
Now let's also hope those ships can unload humanitarian supplies without problems from Russia. This is like sitting on a powder keg and smoking a cigarette.
Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on August 26, 2008 at 5:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Create
I got some late information on M. She is now in Tblisi. Some friends have purchased a ticket for her to leave Tblisi on the 4th of September and arrive at KCI on the 5th. She is quite stressed and is having problems with the PIN for her ATM card.
I think when all is said and done that will seem like a small blip compared to all the other things that have happened to her.
She did have this to say about her trip from Batumi to Tblisi:
"M was pretty upset at the massive devestation and destruction to her country, that she observed on her flight from Batumi to Tblisi. Russian soldiers have destroyed most everything of monetary value in their country... They have looted all of the towns that they have gone through.
She said that all the Georgian people are left with now, is their faith in God... and there is nothing that Russia can do, that will take that away from her Country and her people."
As I understand it four more American ships with relief materials are going to be in Georgia this week. I suspect there will be more to follow. I'm sure that Pat Kelley and B.D Protheroe would consider these provocative acts.
Posted by create (anonymous) on August 26, 2008 at 5:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I can't imagine what it would be like flying over our country and seeing the kind of destruction M has witnessed. And the Russian people are saying that all this is nothing but American propaganda. I shudder when I think of all this.
Posted by create (anonymous) on August 27, 2008 at 8:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)
At last! Our prayers have been answered. Our efforts have paid off. I received an e-mail this morning to say we can now celebrate!!!
The Embassy has approved M's Visa. She should have it in her hands by Tuesday of next week. She can now use her Visa card.
She has her E-ticket now, and she is scheduled to fly out of Tblisi the morning of September 4th!
M thanks everyone for their concern and their prayers. She says that she feels very loved.
Thank God!
Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on August 27, 2008 at 8:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Create
This is wonderful news! Thanks for sharing it. I will be great to see M when she arrives!
Posted by open_eyes (anonymous) on August 27, 2008 at 4:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Great! Thx for the updates....
I agree with you netloafer. I'm sure there are those on this board that would much rather use "diplomacy" that would drag on for months to feed and clothe the needy people there, instead of a provocative act like getting them the needed supplies immediately, regardless of the type of ship used.
Anyway, thx for the good news about M....
Posted by create (anonymous) on August 27, 2008 at 4:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)
You are welcome, open eyes. This has been touch and go for quite some time, and very frustrating every inch of the way as I'm sure you could gather. I called both Senator Pat Roberts' office and Congressman Moran's office this morning to thank them for the time they took to make phone calls to the American Embassy on M's behalf. Many have been interested in this human drama. Let us all hope that the people of Georgia can begin to heal soon.
Posted by create (anonymous) on August 28, 2008 at 1:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)
For anyone still interested, the following link is to a story which appeared via Associated Press in the Wichita Eagle today. It doesn't give the final results of our long struggle, but as you who have been following this know, Miranda does have her Visa now and will be flying back to Kansas on Sept. 4.
http://www.kansas.com/news/state/story/5...
Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on August 28, 2008 at 1:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Create
It will be good to see her. It's been a long, difficult journey.
Posted by glarson (Gwen Larson) on August 29, 2008 at 7:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
And we'll close this out and move to a forum:
http://www.emporiagazette.com/forums/ope...