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Ability, probability

Adam Didde, Emporia

Originally published 01:18 p.m., June 16, 2008
Updated 01:18 p.m., June 16, 2008

Everyone talks about “probability” when it comes to the pit bull. However, the problem lies in their deadly capability. Quite simply, pits kill and severely injure too many people. All dogs bite, but all dogs don’t maim and murder. The breed, and its variations, is equipped to kill a healthy human adult. A weaker victim will only suffer more quickly. I would rather I or my child be forced to defend against an animal against which we stood a chance. Likely death seems too great a risk for society to accept.

Consider this: would sensible parents leave their young daughter in a strange man’s home alone? No. Why not? They would not want to risk the possibility that the stranger be a molester, or worse. Yet, for every sick, abusive male, there are at least hundreds of respectable, safe men who would do her no harm. Would you put your child at risk simply because you’ve had many experiences with men who never hurt her? No way. Small children need protection at all times.

Many of the deadly attacks in recent years were inflicted by dogs with an impeccable history, on victims who posed no threat to the dog. I’ve been educated on the danger (not probability) of a pit bull attack, and accordingly made decisions about my family’s exposure to the breed’s variations.

Regardless of the number of pits that have lived a peaceful life, there have been enough maulings and deaths to convince me that this breed poses an unnecessary and unfair threat to humans (especially children). Again, it’s not that the attacks are probable; it’s that they are possible.

I don’t have a solution. I’m simply saying the problem is real. As parents and citizens, we are well within our rights and our senses to consider the pit breeds a deadly threat.

Comments

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Posted by xlx_dark_oblivion_xlx (anonymous) on June 16, 2008 at 6:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I am sorry to have to be the one to tell the truth about pitbulls. For one thing there is about 20 different breeds of dogs people confuse as a pitbull. Second "pitbulls" and the variety of breeds mistaken for one have a temperment testing of an american pitbull terrier as follows from the American Temperament Test Society - AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER 586 494 92 84.3%. A score of 84.3 percent as compared to "loveable" dogs like Beagals - BEAGLE 61 49 12 80.3% and Rat terriers - RAT TERRIER 15 12 3 80.0%. Finally, third, Im sorry to have to be the one once again to shoot down more points about "pitbulls", but I own a "pitbull" and also have a 3 yr old and an 11 week old. That dog is the best dog I could have around my children and infact as far as the American Temperament Test Society is concerned are more tolerable of children than just about any other breed. So to say my or anyone elses children are not safe from "pitbulls" is absolutely bias and not supported by FACTS. I have presented FACTS. Where are yours? I never saw one mention of a fact in this paper article. It is very disappointing to watch the Emporia Gazette drop its standards and print garbage based on shotty stories and opinions rather than fact based information as i have provided. Maybe i should go apply for an editorial postion at the local newspaper. Very disappointed! Also to compare them to a child molester is just ignorant. Wake up people! Breeds dont make bad dogs, people do. Dont punish the breed. Punish the deed. Make laws on attacks more aggressive. Make owners register their dogs or enforce penalties. There are so many more ways to protect people, rather than take citizens rights away. America is the land of the FREE not the land of stipping people their rights. It is my RIGHT to own a dog if I so choose and to destroy my dog would destroy my daughter. My dog is her best frined. So when ur worried about your children, remember mine will not have a chance to not be devistated.

Posted by hottopics (anonymous) on June 16, 2008 at 8:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

No one is saying to destroy your dog, we only want mandated regulations that are in place to protect innocent citizens. We want to be safe guarded by animals that have the capability as well as a history to severely harm other domestic animals and humans. It is becoming more and more evident as more domestic animals are killed and human are attacked and seriously injured.

Posted by jennienbj (anonymous) on June 16, 2008 at 11:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Why does the paper only publish articles about pitbulls? What about all the dogs at large in this town that are your cut loveable labs, or retrievers, akitas, poodles, weiner dogs, etc? If I counted on a daily basis the dogs that are at large in my neighborhood, and turned them in, the police department would screen my calls. If we are going to put laws on animals, then we need to put them on every breed, not just one. It is not fair that we target one breed, if we target one race of americans as something, there would be a riot.
If we are going to put strict laws on breeds of dogs, then lets put strict laws on the sexual predators that live within a couple blocks of our schools?

Posted by Bjnemp (anonymous) on June 17, 2008 at 12:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Jennie: I see those other dogs roaming around town, too, but they don't frighten me too much. Sure, they could bite, and possibly inflict a painful injury, but I think Mr. Didde defined the problem clearly when he wrote: "Pits kill and severely injure too many people. All dogs bite, but all dogs don't maim and murder. The breed, AND IT'S VARIIATIONS, is eqipped to kill a healthy human being." That's why you see more articles condemning pit bulls than you do condemning labs or beagles.

And dark_oblivion: I think the analogy using the strange men (child molestor) was a very good example which made total sense.

Stevenik: Your radical and repetitive entries do your cause far more harm than good. You appear too biased to be taken seriously.

Nobody is advocating the pit bull police come to your home and confiscate your family pet. The less personally involved members of the community just want assurances that they, and their children, can walk the streets without fear of being mauled to death by a breed of dog fully equipped, and often known, to do so. Very well-defined, strict rules and laws need to be enacted to reduce the chances of a disaster. One death would be one too many.

Posted by stevenlk (anonymous) on June 17, 2008 at 4:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Bjnemp = its not repeated entries. its ALL different EVENTS that took place in the last two months of which dogs mauled Perfectly healthy adult, which arent publicized because they werent "pits" if you take the time to click on EACH INDIVIDUAL link(s) you WILL SEE that not only pits can do damage but so can other breeds. its not in the breed and what they are "equipped" with or their history its how they are brought up and raised to do. Or deprived from, as in socialization, human contact, and the required daily walk/exercise. your welcome.

Posted by Bjnemp (anonymous) on June 17, 2008 at 8:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Stevenik: I know you love your Pit Bull, for some reason I will never understand, but I don't buy your rationalizations. If I owned a gorilla and gave it "socialization, human contact, and the required daily walk/exercise", sooner or later it would still rip someone's arms and legs off. That gorilla may love me, but it is still a gorilla and will be a serious threat to the general population unfortunate enough to encounter it.

Posted by Penny (anonymous) on June 17, 2008 at 9:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

oblivion: The percentages you (and others) quote from the Temperment website are misleading. Please note that the sample size varies a great deal. Only 61 Beagles were tested as compared to 586 APBT's. To have an accurate comparison of percentages, you'd need to test 586 Beagles. Only 15 Rat Terriers were tested, again, you'd need to test 586 to be able to make a fair comparison of percentages. Just sayin'

Posted by Penny (anonymous) on June 17, 2008 at 9:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Oh, and in fairness to the Gazette, this was not an article but a letter written by a citizen. You, of course may do the same. I only recall one actual "article" by the Gazette. It made the front page and featured a family who loved their Pits and sang their praises. I'm not seeing this "media bias" at least locally.

Posted by OutsiderJ (anonymous) on June 17, 2008 at 9:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

In my home town they have a no new pit bull law. If you have one you are or were (when the law took effect) required to register it and carry certain amounts of insurance as the owner to cover you and the victim of your dog's attack. Then the book was closed. No new registrations, no new pit bulls. Owners of unregistered pit bulls were given a certain amount of time to make accomodations for their "pet" somewhere else. If on follow up that had not been done, the dog was confiscated and destroyed (I believe anyway). It works great and in 10 years there will be no more problem.
This was done with great pains after a 3 yr. old girl was mauled by 2 pit bulls. She lost an ear, an eyelid (of all things) was completely destroyed, and she lost some use of one of her arms. Not to mention a lot of blood. The only thing that saved her was her family's dog, a very brave cocker spaniel who attacked the dogs creating a window for the girl's mother to get her to safety. The cocker spaniel lived but later had to be put down due to the damage inflicted upon it. These were dogs living right next door to the girls house, she had seen and pet them many times, and when she was in her fenced in yard for less than 3 minutes by herself (her mother had gone to grab laundry to hang on the line or some such short chore), they attacked. I could care less how much people love their dogs, dangerous is dangerous. I'm sick of hearing about how much people love their little flesh rippers, you can love a pug, or a lab, or any other dog just as much as you can love your "weapon/pet".

Posted by hottopics (anonymous) on June 17, 2008 at 10:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Well said OUTSIDER, many towns such as Burlington have that same law on the books and it works.

We need regulation and protection before one of ours becomes that victim again.

Posted by slipandslide (anonymous) on June 17, 2008 at 11:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)

im in favore of a law that includes vicious dogs of all breeds.

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/danger.h...

Posted by CassieJo (anonymous) on June 17, 2008 at 1:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Does anyone know what the ordinance is for the number of dogs per household is??

I thought you were only allowed 3 per household.

There are ordinances in place for animals, loud music etc but you have to file a complaint through the police dept for them to be inforced. The problem doesnt get solved by just making a report by phone.

The article submitted to the gazette by Cheryl Henry on june 11th appears to be closed but the link to continue it leads to an old discussion .... it is no longer available to post on ...

Maybe the gazette could have an online chat with our animal control department to answer some questions.

Posted by jennienbj (anonymous) on June 17, 2008 at 1:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I do not think a "no pit policy" is going to go into effect in emporia. We have had two attack in how many years in emporia? And to those of you who think pit bulls are the only dogs to kill, look again. What about rotweilers and the deaths they are involved in? I am more scared of one of them than a pit.
No one is ever going to agree on who is right and who is wrong. I think that there should be stronger laws and ordinances on all animals in Emporia. That akita that attacked my cousin-in-law, is back at its house, a few days after the attack. That dog tried to jump the fence and come after me. I am scared of that dog now, knowing what it could do if it gets out.

Posted by stevenlk (anonymous) on June 17, 2008 at 2:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Bjnemp - you cannot compare dogs to gorillas, dogs took hundreds of years to but ARE domesticated animals gorillas are exotic they arent tamed in the mind kind of like you cant compare having your children around pits because its like having them around strange molesters... btw i don't have a pitbull. just underrstand them, they are being stereotyped and misunderstood because of their looks.

Posted by Bjnemp (anonymous) on June 17, 2008 at 4:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Stevenik: There is nothing "exotic" about a gorilla. It is just a big slobbering animal that can tear a human to shreds, much like a pit bull. Besides, the gorilla reference was just an analogy, as was the child molester reference made by Mr. Didde. And, for the last time, pit bulls are not "stereotyped and misunderstood because of their looks." To the contrary, they are fine looking animals. They are stereotyped because of their actions.

Posted by hottopics (anonymous) on June 17, 2008 at 5:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

There are MANY attacks by pit bulls that have included several deaths to domestic animals that dont get printed in the paper. Many other issues dont make the paper either. I can name off what I have been aware of in the last 2 years. So it isnt all of a sudden, its been happening. Sad to say because no one but family pets have been killed so they arent in the news. But I assure you that three have happened in the last 6 months to people.

Posted by jennienbj (anonymous) on June 17, 2008 at 6 p.m. (Suggest removal)

So why then all of the sudden have pitbull attacks started to get published in only the past 6 months, if you know of very many here in emporia? The funny thing is people get attacked and they say it was a pit, but the reality there is at least 18 differerent breeds that look like pits. I am obviously a pit owner, but I even had a hard time picking out which one wa a pit bull. So can you tell me that you positively know 100% sure that it was and American Pit Bull Terrior that attacked people?

the website for all of you people that would like to take the quiz to see if they know what a pit is:

www.pbrc.net

Posted by Bjnemp (anonymous) on June 17, 2008 at 6:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Jenniebj: I have a hunch that the veterinarian who euthanized the attacking animal knew it's breed. If the vet said it was a pit bull then that is what got entered in the police report and got printed in the paper. I tend to believe that.

Also... I went to the website you entered above. That's a Pit Bull owner's propoganda site! I wouldn't believe a word of what is printed there. I'll stick with the information distributed by vets and animal behavioral scientists. They tend to be far more accurate and impartial.

Posted by slipandslide (anonymous) on June 17, 2008 at 10:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The Breed's Original Purpose
Humans have created specialized dogs through emphasizing desired traits and eliminating unwanted ones. It is no different with the pit bull type dogs. The American Pit Bull Terrier has been "selectively" bred for hundreds of years to fight other dogs. This is the sad "work" these dogs were created for. In the same way that Labradors were bred to retrieve birds, APBTs were bred to face other dogs in mortal combat. Even in dogs that are not recently bred from fighting lines, the urge to fight can arise at any time. Not to strongly emphasize this fact would be negligent.

i took this from your link, jennifer,and i read the link someone else provided on another forum. the consistant thing these articles are saying about pits and other large muscular dogs is that they are high maintanence dogs. they need alot of attention and the owners need to have a good understanding of dogs and their behaviors maybe the reason the well behaved ones dont make the news, they have owners who are willing to invest the time and energy to take care of the dog and be sure they are well socialized. the pit bulls jaws dont lock, instead it s their determination to "win" during a fight or attack that keeps their jaws clamped shut. selective breeding for decades is what has developed a line of fighting dogs and no matter how well trained an animal is, they cant ignore what their instincts tell them to do. it would be silly of the city to pass a breed specific ordanance, today the pit bull is popular, next it would be another breed and the laws would not address that breed.

Posted by jennienbj (anonymous) on June 18, 2008 at 11:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

slip and slide,

I agree that my dogs could attack and win if they want. but I spend a lot of time with my dogs, walk them, socialize them and spoil them. They love everyone they meet. They pit was also bred to work cattle, that was before people started to fight them. They fought them just for the fun of it. It is really sad that they did that, but it does not mean that every pit that is bred today to fight and win fights. If you breed two dogs that have never fought and breed their pups, and then their pups, normally they all turn out to be good dogs.

bjnemp-
no one will ever change your mind. I love my dogs and if they turn out to be good dogs, I will never own another breed. You know it is crazy that they euthanized that dog, because that akita that attacked my cousin in law, was back at home right after and nothing happened to it. That same dog tried to climb the fence to get to us a week after. If it attacks me or anyone else I know, it better be euthanized. When that dog was barking at us, my male pit turned and looked at me, he was whining becuase he was scared. He did not try to pull me towards that dog to fight.

Posted by MelissaE (anonymous) on June 18, 2008 at 1:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I saw this article & wanted to post it:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25214356/

It's called "Beaten-down dog from Vick case has his day--
Pit bull rescued from famous dogfighting ring now helps cancer patients"

Read it.

Not all pit bulls are killing machine--not even the ones trained to kill.

Can we end this many-article discussion? Isn't there anything else to talk about in Emporia?

M

Posted by Bjnemp (anonymous) on June 18, 2008 at 1:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Jennie, my friend, it has been said that "you can't reason with an unreasonable person", and your statement above proves you are unreasonable on this issue. A woman was attacked and nearly killed during an unprovoked attack by a vicious dog and your response was "You know it is crazy that they euthanized that dog." You value the life of that vicious dog more than the innocent old woman who endured much pain and trauma at the hands of that dog! How sad.

I detect that same unreasonable thinking by the other pro-Pit Bull advocates in these postings. It seems obvious that you people value your precious Pit Bull attack animals, and your right to own them, far more than the lives and well-being of the men, women, and children among whom you reside.

This problem won't be solved until you and other Pit Bull defenders are willing to admit a problem exists.

Posted by CassieJo (anonymous) on June 18, 2008 at 2:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Bj - A woman was attacked and nearly killed during an unprovoked attack by a vicious dog

What I remember reading on the kvoe site about this attack was that the dog attacked her "dog" and she tried to break them up and she was injured in the process. I went back and tried to relocate this article but there is no link to kvoes archives that I can find.

I don't recall any article saying a woman was attacked and nearly killed during an unprovoked attack by a vicious dog in emporia.

Posted by stevenlk (anonymous) on June 18, 2008 at 4:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

just and FYi: i seen the marks the lady had from the "pit bull" they are puncture marks. when a dog "nips" or just "puncture bites" they are doing it to stop whatever you are doing as hurting them or pinning them down. mother dogs do that to their pups to correct them. now your telling me the pit bull "attacked" her.. believe me. and we ALL know if that dog REALLY attacked her and wanted to really BITE her she would have had chunks torn off. so whatever she did to PROVOKE that dog cause it to puncture bite her. not VICIOUSLY ATTACK her.

Posted by Bjnemp (anonymous) on June 18, 2008 at 4:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Cassie: Good grief. You just proved my point made in my last post! Again, you defend the dog instead of the poor woman. You statee above that the Pit Bull, unprovoked, attacked the woman's dog. When she tried to save her dog, the Pit attacked her. What part of "unprovoked" do you not understand? You are hinting that it was the woman's fault because she tried to intervene and save her little dog's life so the Pit had every right to attack her.

I get it now: Pit Bull owners are convinced that anyone attacked by their dog provoked it, deserved it, and had it coming.

Posted by Bjnemp (anonymous) on June 18, 2008 at 4:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Stevenlk: You MUST be kidding! You actually have the nerve to say a Pit Bull attacking a woman and just inflicting "puncture bites" wounds is acceptable? And you should be ashamed to the point of repentance for saying "whatever she did to PROVOKE that dog (to) cause it to puncture bite her" in her fault? You people are simply unbelievable in your terribly slanted fanaticsm.

Posted by CassieJo (anonymous) on June 18, 2008 at 6:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

A Must see video .....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL1trl1FM...

Posted by wyse_guy (anonymous) on June 18, 2008 at 6:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

BJ here you go again any dog can be trained to do anything. Be nice be mean its not the breed its the owner.Just think your from one of the most vicous mean ruthless breeds alive a human.Look at yourself in here attacking anyone and everyone;who dont see it your way.Your no different than than the thing you hate the most.I dont wish a dog attack on anybody no matter the breed.But u need to take your abuse out on the owners of dogs who just dont care what their dogs do.Because karma could come back and bite your azz.Maybe we will start a new forum beware of Bjnemp.

Posted by jennienbj (anonymous) on June 18, 2008 at 9:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Bj~
I do not deny that problems exist. But why would anyone in their right mind jump in the middle of a dog bit? Why was there not pictures posted in the paper of this "deathly attack"? Why was there not a huge article and police report? Do you think that if a lab were to attack, it should be euthanized? Because you sound like Fred Phelps does when his group pickets funerals.

Posted by jennienbj (anonymous) on June 18, 2008 at 10:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Bj, I just went back to the May 5th paper and read the story about the attack. The lady was treated for a few bites and lacerations. It did not say that it was a "deadly" attack. Or the viscious dog tried to rip her to shreds as she just was sitting in her back yard.
Was her dog a poodle? Cuz I can personally say that my dogs and all of my friends dogs dislike poodles very much. I do not know why it is the poodle brand but most of the bigger dogs for some reason do not like the ankle biters.

Posted by Bjnemp (anonymous) on June 19, 2008 at 6:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Jennie: I am very much in my "right mind" but if a pit bull was attacking my 5 month old pup, I would be in the middle of it in a heartbeat with no concern for my own safety, as you would be if an animal was attacking your dog. Get real, and stop rationalizing and grasping for straws.

Oh! And I can't believe you said above that "my dogs and all of my friends dogs dislike poodles very much" and "bigger dogs for some reason do not like the ankle biters." Sounds like you are saying it is okay, then, for your, and your friend's, dogs to attack poodles and smaller dogs? Geez! You people (Pit Bull owners) are off the scale fanatical! No wonder those dogs show irrational behavior: they inherit it!

Posted by MelissaE (anonymous) on June 19, 2008 at 7:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I would just like to point out that since I told BJ he was fanatically inclined to be against pit bulls, he's loved using that same word ("fanatic" or variations of) since.

I wish I could point you in the right direction as to what article I told him that...but there are so many, I've lost track.

Oh--and BJ, don't worry: You thought I was PB owner but I'm truly not. I live in OK (they are illegal here) and own a couple of labs that I rescued. My husband's family owned a PB when we first got together--he thought your comments were pretty funny. And fanatical.

His PB died of old age several years ago. She never attacked anyone. And that was in California. Imagine that.

M

Posted by jennienbj (anonymous) on June 19, 2008 at 8:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

No I am not saying that it is right for big dogs to attack the little dogs. I am not a fanatic, you are. I am just saying, there is something with the little poodles with all that curly hair that they just bark at them. I think that if a dog were to attack my dog, I would find something to hit the dogs with. I can not count how many times a little dog comes after us when we are walking we have to kick at it to leave us alone. I happen to like some of the ankle biters, my boss has a pug, my little sister has a shnauzer.I have nothing against any dog, but seriously if you could be racist against an animal, you sure are. Did you know Helen Keller owned a pitbull? Or how about that pitbull that is drug dog and has sniffed thousands and thousands of dollars of drugs and other things. So there are good pits, there are bad pits. there are good rots, and bad rots, good dalmations, bad dalmations, good labs, bad labs, good poodles, bad poodles. etc.

Posted by Bjnemp (anonymous) on June 19, 2008 at 11:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Melissa & Jennie: I'm not fanatical; I'm passionate! Yak! And I don't dispute that there are good pit bulls. I'm sure there are some. I also know there are vicious labs, goldens, and poodles out there. It all boils down to ability to do damage and, as you have pointed out on numerous occassions, the responsibility of owners. We just need to have some very well-defined and strictly enforced regulations in place here in Emporia to maximize safety for pedestrians and punish irresponsible pet owners.

I will never fully trust a Pit Bull. I don't trust lawyers or politicians, either, but I don't shoot them without good reason. If one of the above ever attacked me or mine, however, I wouldn't hesitate to defend myself. If that attack does ever come, I do hope it's by a lawyer or a politician and not a pit bull. I would feel really bad about having to shoot a dog.

Posted by jennienbj (anonymous) on June 21, 2008 at 12:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Bj~

I am not a fanactic, I am passionate about animals. My dogs are great.

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