Public sentiment against constructing four new entrance monuments led city leaders to reverse course and postpone the project.
But the city has already spent about $36,000 of sales tax money and there’s no guarantee the signs won’t be built later.
City Manager Matt Zimmerman said he and other city officials are well aware of the public’s questions and concerns. He said they certainly are valid ones.
“The commission is not saying they won’t move ahead with it,” Zimmerman said. “They think there are good reasons for it. But perhaps we need to take a little more time to think about it and take a look at the impacts of the contracts.”
The commission decided on Jan. 19 to spend $101,165 on four rock signs to be placed at town entrance points. Through online outlets and e-mails, calls and conversations with city leaders, many citizens have expressed displeasure with the cost of the monuments, the need for them and with the decision making of elected officials.
Zimmerman and Mayor Jim Kessler initially defended the monument purchase in an in-depth Monday Gazette article, which set off a fresh round of public criticism.
Two days later Kessler announced at Wednesday’s commission work session that the monuments have been put on temporary hold.
“Because of public feedback we want some time to digest and analyze that,” he said. “We don’t have a particular timeline. But we want some time to analyze all the different information we’ve received.”
The city already agreed to pay Dave Emig $27,140 for design services for the monuments. The vast majority of his contact has already been spent, Zimmerman said.
“In addition we’ve bought one rock from Bob Davis and Alan Tollakson has carved one,” he said. “So that’s $8,500 already. We’ve spent about $36,000 to date in actual out of pocket costs.”
Zimmerman said they will put this on hold for about a week to analyze where to go next.
One factor that will have to be considered is the fact the city has existing contracts. Breaking a contract may not be easy.
Davis agreed to sell the city stones for $1,000 each. The city has a contract with Tollakson to carve stones at a cost of $7,500 each. And the city has a $41,225 contract with Mitchell-Markowitz Construction to build the foundations and set the entrance stones.
“I think we need to weigh the concerns of the community, versus the benefit to the community, versus being locked into contracts anyway,” Zimmerman said.
While there has been at least moderate interest in the past about improving the entryways to Emporia, the project to put signs at entrance points gained momentum in 2008 and 2009 with a Building Futures sub-committee charged with looking at ways to increase tourism in the Emporia area.
The committee wanted the signs to be eye catching and something the community could be proud of. Proponents of the monuments mention how it’s a sign of progress and how it could potentially boost tourism.
The money for the monuments was slated to come from the city’s multi-year fund. This is sales tax money the city collected in 2009 as part of a countywide one-cent sales tax. The money is supposed to be used for infrastructure, and city leaders argue the entrance monuments count as infrastructure.
But after a week of mostly public backlash, everything will be reexamined. The topic will likely come up again at a future public meeting.
“We want to hear what everyone in the community has to say because there may be a lot of people in favor who aren’t as vocal,” Zimmerman said.
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
Perpetual optimism is a force multiplier. COLIN POWELL. Anyone with money to burn will easily find someone to tend the fire. What might happen is some expert might be called in to share the blame.
January 27, 2011 at 11:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
When every street, park, etc has been attended to, then build your rocks. There is zero reason to build for the future when the present needs repair.
January 27, 2011 at 12:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Do not proceed with this as long as we have other infrastructure projects going without attention.
On top of all that, the design itself is flawed because it is much too simple. All that money for something a grade school kid could draw up. But we're stuck paying Emig for his bum design.
And what happened to Shop Emporia First? Does Emig live in Emporia anymore? And rocks from Olpe?
This should teach you commissioners to put expenditures more than ten thousand dollars on public approval. If the public doesn't show up at the meetings, so be it. Let them eat dirt.
You wanna see a sign? Here, look at this sign for the Flinthills:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_Hills
January 27, 2011 at 12:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sail (anonymous) says...
Beginning to think we will not see a new local sales tax or new bond issue passed in lyon county for many more years, because of the collective anger.....Yes we will see the stones when the dust settles down, but at what cost have our leaders burdened us with.
January 27, 2011 at 1:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
hogan77 (anonymous) says...
The people have the power here. Vote in new commissioners, show these fools who is REALLY in charge!
January 27, 2011 at 1:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Guessler (anonymous) says...
Zimmy said:
"Zimmerman said they will put this on hold for about a week to analyze where to go next"
There is no hurry Zimmy put it on hold as long as you want...
January 27, 2011 at 1:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Guessler (anonymous) says...
"The committee wanted the signs to be eye catching and something the community could be proud of. "
Then why on earth they hire a 5 year old to design this??
January 27, 2011 at 1:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
i spent so much time on this on the other thread that this one came up and i think it pertains to this also so here:
O.K. ALL YOU POSTERS, NEW AND OLD ALIKE.
Let's step back and think what our blogging has accomplished so far.?????????????????
Absolutely Nothing !
This project is on hold, nothing else.
Do you realize what the mayor meant when he said it was on hold? It means that the contract for the FOUNDATION is on hold at least until the Feb. 2 meeting. At that meeting all they have to do is approve the minutes of the prior meeting and Mayor Kessler signs it.
Over 1/2 of the costs have already been spent, already spent , already spent.
Now the public outcry of we bloggers and others who e-mailed the commission HAS MADE THEM THINK.
That is a good thing !
But this project will most likely go ahead as planned.
Everytime we bloggers high-5 and congratulate each other on here for the fine job we have done, and then go on to HURL personal attacks against a fellow Emporian just kind of proves Steve Sauders' point on the anonymous bloggers doesn't it?
I am NOT a Steve or Jamie Sauder cheerleader by any means. Hardly know Steve and only saw Jamie a couple of times. I strongly disagree with Jamie on this, as I did with Steve over the smoking ban.
You may not agree with their positions or their thoughts on this or hardly anything,
you may dislike them for personal reasons, you may think they have an attitude problem, but that is NOT what this is about.
It is about the chairman of BFP bringing an idea to the commission and our commission approving it. So let's save the majority of our anger for the commission and try to temper our comments and argue the facts.
Are we showing the same dismissive disdain for Steve Sauder that he showed us bloggers in his letter?
January 27, 2011 at 1:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
January 27, 2011 at 1:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mslater (Matt Slater) says...
The LVCVA has 16 people on it's committee. Of those 8, are required to be elected officials and the other 6 are appointed by the Las Vegas Chamber of Commerce and Nevada Resort Association. For every $1 it spends, $26 are returned to the community.
The Emporia CVB has 5 members, one city liason, and no elected members. Not counting elected members, the CVB of Emporia has the same amount of people on it's payroll/board as the Convention and Visitors Authority in LAS VEGAS does. How much money does the CVB in Emporia return versus how much it spends? I guarandamntee you it isn't $26 to $1.
Why are we funding this pet project?
Matt
January 27, 2011 at 1:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
doubt_it (anonymous) says...
@ create
I like that sign a lot better than the concept Emig came up with.
Don't let the power of the people die down. Let's show them we mean business and will carry thru with our voting. Don't fizzle out now. We have an election coming up and it's gonna be a good one.
Can't wait to start hearing from the candidates on their opinions for the city now and in the future.
January 27, 2011 at 1:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
and now it's nap time for this old man.
January 27, 2011 at 1:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
HenryVIII (anonymous) says...
How tall are the rocks supposed to be anyway? If they're the size of that giant beer can that used to be on the west side of town, then it might actually be worth it. Can you imagine a welcome rock that big? Now that would be cool...
Oh, I know! Make 'em so big that we can drill a tunnel through it and have it straddle the highway! Wow! Go big or don't waste my money!
'enry
January 27, 2011 at 1:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Guessler (anonymous) says...
Zimmy said:
"“In addition we’ve bought one rock from Bob Davis and Alan Tollakson has carved one,”
Then show it to us, maybe, just maybe the actual rock is better looking that the draw made on microsoft paint in 5 minutes, and maybe, just maybe we'll fall in love for the rocks.
January 27, 2011 at 1:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
HenryVIII (anonymous) says...
This explains the price:
http://emporia.media.clients.ellingto...
'enry
January 27, 2011 at 1:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Tell (anonymous) says...
I don't know why there was even a vote if the project has already started and moneys already paid out.
January 27, 2011 at 1:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lowereastside (anonymous) says...
I want someone to explain to me why, here in Emporia, my street is crumbling into the ditches, we don't have curbs, & definately don't have sidwalks and the city leaders are continuing with these "pet rocks". I would like the city attorney to give us his opinion of the term "infrastructure" as it applies to the use of the one cent sales tax. I saw Kessler & Zimmerman were the only two whos' opinions were written. Let's see what someone with legal expertise has to say about this.
January 27, 2011 at 1:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
hogan77 (anonymous) says...
I had a bit of an epiphany here a few moments ago, just another realization as to how absurd and irresponsible this project is.
Emporia, you already have "welcoming monuments" at each of your main entrances into town. Follow me here, and don't laugh- I am really dead on serious here.
At the North entrance you have the ESU campus. It is so big, no one can miss it. And it says hello, we are ESU, a major part of Emporia!
At the South entrance you have the Cottonwood river and the old river bridge- great for fishing (recreation). Not to mention you have a pretty nice zoo, a nice park (a hint that there are a few others in town as well), and of course, you have the All Vetrans Memorial right next to the river bridge. That is what Emporia is so well known for! How could you NOT count that as a welcome, a bit of what the town is about??
At the west entrance you have the "Prairie Passage Stone Sculptures". These show the town as being a part of the Flint Hills, a gateway.
Now, on to the East side of town. Here it shows what Emporia REALLY has become. Crumbling streets, dirty looking hotel, and lack of businesses and homes. It gives travelers a chance to see how certain parts of town can be so badly neglected.
You see, there is simply no reason to spend all this extra money on some rocks that say Welcome Emporia! You already have some great monuments built that welcome visitors and show them what Emporia is all about.
January 27, 2011 at 2:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
We'll be watching closely, continuation on this project equates to political suicide in the coming elections, if it is not too late already.
January 27, 2011 at 2:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Well, folks, if you have a severe pain in the old behind, it is because we all were secretly, bamboozled, ' BOINKED " so quickly that we got " BOINKED " so secretly and quickly we didn' t even know it until it was too late !
Such is the price of not being aware of the " FOXES " in the hen house and in this case there were many " FOXES " in the hen house, " BOINKING " you / me / us " THE PEOPLE " ( hens ), that pay the bills !
See my post on the " Supporting the Monuments " page - January 27, 2011 at 4:23 p.m.
January 27, 2011 at 4:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
goodoleboy,
Three of the commissioners have either resigned or left on their own and the other two may just resign after this fire storm !
January 27, 2011 at 4:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
You can bet there will be Commissioner Candidates sponsered and backed by the " Good ole Boy " rulers that are running in the Commissioner election ! The problem will be, ferreting them out for who they and their " handlers " are !!
I believe I may already know who a couple may be !
January 27, 2011 at 4:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Wichitawings (anonymous) says...
Sounds like an election year, lets not let this become a campaign issue, let's do it after the election!
January 27, 2011 at 7:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jellybelly51 (anonymous) says...
I might not be so opposed to the idea of these stones if it weren't for the fact that a lot of the true infrastructure of Emporia is declining very badly and needs repaired. Try driving down east 9th ave. at more than 10 mph and see how fast your head hits your car roof. Try driving down 6th ave at night its very hard to determine if your in the driving lane or in both lanes because the paint striping is all but gone. There's many other important projects this money should be going to and now is not the time to use it to buy rocks.
January 27, 2011 at 7:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JFish (anonymous) says...
I agree with jellybelly51. In a time of affluence, where other things didn't need so much tending, I'd say go for it. But in a time of need, the expenditure is inappropriate.
I always thought "infrastructure" was the nuts and bolts that hold a town up, like its services (sewer, police, utilities, etc.,) plus road quality, the library, building safety, and so on. Stones and other decorations are not a necessity and are just icing on the cake, certainly not infrastructure. But then, maybe I have the wrong idea of what the word means.
Are the people who voted this in naive about how life is in parts of Emporia? The money could have been so much better spent on quality of life for some folks there.
But I'll tell ya what. Emporia will survive. When we drive past the monuments we can get a chuckle and shake our heads at the excess in spending on such a thing during a time of need. The community will survive, and in the future this will be a mere bump in the road.
My suggestion is for everyone to pull together and show those guys what you are made of. Get out there and do some work. Obviously you can't fix the sewers or drive the police cars, but you can do other things.
I recall hearing that the flowers in the beds downtown are planted and tended by volunteers. I don't know if that is true, but it was what I heard. They are beautiful. See what a bit of elbow grease can get a town?
Fix up your own yards, and help a neighbor fix up his. Do things to brighten that town up.
Things are as they are. Yes, they did a thoughtless thing during a time of such need. So, vote them out if you want to. Then start working on making the town reflect its residents in a wonderful light.
I no longer live there, but our family roots are deep there, and we care a lot about Emporia. Plus we shop there every week and our sales tax is going to these stones too.
I do have to say though, I wish I could vote there!
January 27, 2011 at 10:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
I will concede, that the City Commissioners are the ones that voted to spend $100,000 + on Entrance Monuments, instead of the $40,000 that was allocated in the Final City Budget for Landscaping at City highway entrances ! Which I also objected to at the Public Budget meetings !
But the reality is, someone had to put the " BUG " so to speak in the City Commissions ear for these " ROCKS, STONES, MONUMENTS in the first place and should bear the responsiblility for such nonsense also, no matter who they may be !!
Therefore my anger goes a little further up the " Food Chain " than just the City Commissioners / City Manager .
January 27, 2011 at 10:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
You, know I hear all this talk of :" volunteering " and I have no gripe with that, but just what are we paying taxes for ?
To pay for somethng that someone feels that they want ?
There is not a street in Emporia that doesn' t need repair, that is in the old, non important sections of Emporia !
Does anyone that is working for a living and trying to pay taxes, keep food on the family table, a roof over the familys head, paying for the upkeep and repair of the family house, have the time to volunteer for " STREET REPAIR " duty, or " STORM SEWER REPAIR " duty or " STREET SNOW REMOVAL " duty ?
Besides it was my understanding that these things / services I listed above, were to be paid for and done with the tax revenue the City Collects from each and every taxpayer , not for $ 100,000 " ROCKS / STONES / MONUMENTS ?
January 27, 2011 at 10:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
citizen1 (anonymous) says...
If the city really wants to make the town a little more "presentable" how bout the city build a fence to block that eye sore of a mobile home park by Vektek! That is one of the first things people see coming off 50 heading into town! TRASHY!
January 27, 2011 at 10:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
The City collects taxes amounting to millions of dollars, each and every year, that is supposed to / should be used for infrastructure repair / maintenance, but what happens to these millions, some one convinces the City Commission that some sort of wild extravagant, unneeded, useless item would be a better use of the taxpayers money !
Then the infrastructure of the City is put on hold and allowed to decay further, and this cycle is repeated over and over and over, until the taxpaying people get good and angry and say to the City Leaders, this has to stop, we " THE PEOPLE " do not approve of this or how things are being done and " BY GOD " we will not put up with it any longer ! And you know what those taxpayers / " WE THE PEOPLE " are made out to be the bad guys by the so called City Leaders !
And how ironic that we / " THE PEOPLE " who pay the City Leaders their salary, support their businesses and give them the money to " SQUANDER " on their extravagant spending ... just happen to be portrayed / made out to be the bad guys !! Go figure !
January 27, 2011 at 10:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
Vote them all out. Get rid of anyone who wants Emporia to look better then the South Side. Force everyone to swallow their pride and allow their hometown to deteriorate like the sagging porches along East Street. Never plan anything to improve the overall appearance of the city. Planning means that one day you might have to execute the plan and get voted out because the town is falling apart while the fools are spending money. Why fill a pothole under the bridge? Why is the bridge so special! We've potholes elsewhere and if we can't fix them all, fix none. Look at the main drag in your hometown. The streetlights along 6th are strung up like temporary Christmas lights with drop cords running from crooked pole to crooked pole. Should we plan on hiding them sometime or would that be a waste too? If you want your front yard to look like crap, that's fine by me. Your property your money your right to look like a hillbilly. Other people buy crap in this town too. People who want the entrance to look nice. People who prefer not to live like Sanford and Son.
You know what will make me laugh? When all the outraged citizens force the commission to cancel the project that we have already committed to. One more useless stone laying in the corner of the city yard with weeds growing up around it, $36,000 poorer, litigation costs and an undisclosed out of court settlement but of course WE THE PEOPLE WON! That will show them not to mess with us. If you don't like seeing those shoes hanging off that overhead wire, don't look at it. Ignore it. Maybe someone will volunteer to take it down, if not we can wait long enough and the laces will decompose and the shoes will fall on their own.
January 27, 2011 at 11:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
REWBA
Nice put down of those of us who just happen to live on the South Side or East Side of Emporia and can' t afford to live in a classy neighborhood, in a 200, 300, 400 thousand dollar house, think of ourselves as superior to everyone else and be wealthy enough, not to have to care about money !!
Yeah, your " ARROGANT PRIDE " certainly came out in your last post !
Make up your mind REWBA, first you say that $ 100,000 dollars for the Monuments is not acceptable and now you belittle those who live on the East, South side of Emporia for thinking and voicing the same thing , I am beginning to think you
your are related to reddog !
Well, let me pose a hypothetical to you, Say you want a furnace, the furnace contractor comes and gives you a bid of $3000 dollars, he installs a furnace and then tells you it will cost you $20,000 dollars !
Do you A. pay the $20,000 dollars and say nothing and pat the furnace contractor on the back and use that furnace contractor again or B. do you loudly protest at the $20,000 price tag and refuse to pay and never use that furnace contracter again ?
The Citys 2011 Final Budget listed Landscaping at highway entrances as costing $40,000, then anounces that Entrance " STONES / ROCKS / MONUMENTS will cost $ 100,000 and you are saying that is O.K. because " US TAXPAYERS " are just loaded with money ?
Maybe you as one of the elite are loaded with money, but how many of the 24,000 citizens of Emporia are really loaded with MONEY, for the CITY to waste and just how much extra would a wealthy Flip Flopping person, like yourself be willing to donate to the City to spend any way they want ?
January 27, 2011 at 11:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
p.s.
And don' t get you panties in a bunch, you will more than likely get your " ROCKS / STONES / MONUMENTS, anyway ! I hope you puff your chest out , fill with " PRIDE " and enjoy them !
January 27, 2011 at 11:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
methusla, I work and income taxes are taken out of my pay. I pay my utilities which also are taxed. I purchase gas for my car which is taxed. I make purchases and am charged a sales tax. I'm sent a bill from the county each year for property tax. After paying for life's basic needs and those taxes too, I'm lucky to have walking around money. But the one thing I can say is if the heating and air guy can get my homeowners insurance company to pay for a new furnace I don't care how much he charges. Let's get the roofer to talk the adjuster into a new roof too. If not I will just stick with the one I got until it burns the house down. That's what insurance is for.
They have already taken that sales tax money from us and we're not getting it back. I prefer to see a pretty entrance when I come to town then to watch it wasted on an ad in the "O".
I said I don't like the design that was displayed in the paper. I can't believe that is what the final product will look like. I would like to see the real engineering plans. The ones that cost all that money. If the gazette is correct and all we got was that amateur fake photo then the city attorney should seek relief from the courts.
January 28, 2011 at 12:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
custom (anonymous) says...
just because half the money has been spent does not mean we half to waste the other half. if you lose an arm do you cut off the other one ?
January 28, 2011 at 6:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
GreatDayInEmporia (anonymous) says...
Why not utilize the expertise of the ESU art department or local/regional artists from the Emporia Arts Council? It seems as though that would make both the creation process and finished product much more memorable.
Including local groups and individuals would build involvement and pride in the project and more importantly, the community. Who knows, maybe they would even volunteer!
January 28, 2011 at 8:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
GreatDayInEmporia (anonymous) says...
@REWBA you support building a city entrance "as big as a house," yet aiding the two dozen children in the community who need food is too much for you? I don't understand your logic.
January 28, 2011 at 8:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
REWBA,
What in blue blazes does, paying INSURANCE premiums have to do with being forced to pay TAXES ?
INSURANCE is something that you choose to pay for protection from unforseen expenses .
Taxes are an elective expense the you pay or in some cases forced to pay, expecting the money to provide you with, expected, required or promised " CIVIL " services and Community infrastructure ... not necessarily to be used / spent for whatever some elite, selfcentered single or group of citizens wants or thinks is a good idea and the City Commission, Council, elected leaders are supposed to , no required / expected to be accountable to the citizen taxpayers / " ALL THE PEOPLE , as to what they are using or even think about using " ALL THE PEOPLES " taxes/ money for and not just EXTRAVAGANTLY spending THE PEOPLES MONEY for EARMARKS, PORK BARREL PROJECTS, UNNEEDED EXTRAVAGANCE !
These STONES/ROCKS./MONUMENTS are not being paid for with INSURANCE premiums ! They are being paid for with TAXPAYERS tax revenue funds that were/are expected / should have been used for other much needed infrastructure maintenance repair / maintenance !
And there are / never will be any assurances that these STONES/ROCKS/MONUMENTS will / are going to attract anything to Emporia, except more hardship and debt for " ALL THE PEOPLE ! But these STONES/ROCKS/MONUMENTS may contribute to the slow continued death of a City, just as the other extravagant wants have and are contributing to the death and division of a City !
Do these STONES/ROCKS/MONUMENTS have magical properties ?
Well, I guess they did have magical properties for the ones who sold the stones to the City, The architect that designed them, the contracter that will build the foundation for them, they all got or will get paid for whatever they had to do with them !
As far as the STONE/ROCKS/MONUMENTS, somehow magically attracting Tourists, visitors, businesses, jobs to Emporia, just like an ad in " O " magazine, magically did or magically causing the needed infrastructure repair, maintenance to appear and be done or somehow magically reducing the Citys/taxpayers debt or reduce the taxes that have been heaped upon present and future taxpayers, do you really think that will happen, just because of some STONES/ROCKS/MONUMENTS ?
If so, then by all means lets just allow things to continue on as usual ! But if we do, then you can be assured there will be more people and businesses leave this most expensive of Citys to live in, for its size and this City will continue to die or tear itself apart, at the hands and way of thinking of those who just don' t care or just don' t get it !
January 28, 2011 at 9:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
marko (anonymous) says...
magical properties? yes, they motivated more people to file for the upcoming election.
January 28, 2011 at 9:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThOXlm...
January 28, 2011 at 9:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Good point, marko. And the number of people filing to become candidates is exactly what got the commissioners' attention. Suddenly, they realized, uh oh, we need to revisit this after all. This is a movement! It wasn't just folks getting up in arms and posting; it was everyday people wanting to run, and wanting to effect change. You're absolutely right. That is the magic of the rocks. Great comment.
January 28, 2011 at 9:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yev_kassem (anonymous) says...
I really do not understand the logic behind getting upset with Building Futures group. The way I look at it is all they did was ask. I find no harm in that. The commissioners are the ones who said yes. People ask for stuff all the time. It is the commissioners job to determine whether what they ask for is worthy of consideration. It goes back to the rule that "You never know until you ask"
January 28, 2011 at 9:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jafo (anonymous) says...
We don't need one of these on the West side of town. That round-a-bout gives everybody that travels through a good first impression. "I never want to do that again". If the locals can't figure it out and don't like it, how do think the so called tourist feel? I know that it can't be changed, but why put a rock out there?
Most folks will be trying to focus on the road, why give them something else to take their attention off driving.
January 28, 2011 at 10:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
newtoemporia (anonymous) says...
The Building Futures group has a right to ask. But, the Building Futures group should also be aware and research. They have some nice ideas ... for future consideration. But priorities need to be in order. And, they also have a responsibility to research.
The commissioners also needed to research. Before setting any budget, they needed to research other communities and the cost per monument.
And, for those of you who submitted bids: As a former sales person, I know many of you but a hefty commission into your proposed costs. $41,225 to build 4 foundations and set 4 stones ... That's a little over $10,000 per location. $7,5000 to carve each stone? It's an artistry and should be paid accordingly, but, when your $30,000 budget was presented and accepted you knew you just got away with stuffing your pockets.
The Building Futures group presented an idea too soon and with little detailed research and facts.
The commissioners did very little research. Otherwise, they would have known $100,000+ budget was $60 - 70,000 too much and too soon.
But, the winning bidders should have been honest and without greed.
January 28, 2011 at 10:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
newtoemporia (anonymous) says...
And, here's a sales secret: When someone offers a service and adds a bonus for free ... That generally means you are being taken for money.
If someone is offering the same service for free, then you have to question why the price is so high. If $7,500 is a fair price ... why would you do one sign (worth $7,500 of your time) for free?
A) They either feel bad for the price they submitted and are trying to replenish "karma" points.
B) They know their price is too high, but they are hiding the fact with a "free" offer to win the bid.
January 28, 2011 at 10:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yev_kassem (anonymous) says...
newtoemporia--
While, I am not is support of the rocks, I have to say that once again I think the blame is being pointed at the wrong people.
The people or companies who submitted a bid are also not to blame. Who are you to judge what one's time and expertise is worth? They said I will do this job for $X. The commissioners are the ones who said ok.
Once again the blame is not with the people who are asking or bidding a job. It is with the people that said ok without thinking it all the way through.
They are the ones with the power, and they are supposed to speak for and be responsible for the people.
January 28, 2011 at 11:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
newtoemporia,
Exactly !
January 28, 2011 at 11:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Blackshirt (anonymous) says...
It would seem from their comments that they are going to do this, it's just a matter of when. I would think with the high level of public outcry in regard to this issue that if it rammed down the residents throats there would be enough people to sign recall petitions. Force them to either listen and represent the wishes of the people that they serve or push them out, simple as that.
January 28, 2011 at 11:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
netloafer (anonymous) says...
I understand the anger and frustration. I think we need to channel it in the right direction. Jamie Sauder called me yesterday and we chatted for a while. In the end we agreed to disagree. I told him I didn't hold Building Futures responsible for this fiasco. It's one thing to have ideas; it's another for people in responsibility to be so out of touch with the community they felt entitled to vote unanimously to place the rocks. The commissioners are the responsible party here and we need to hold them accountable. We need to channel the anger and frustration to the ballot box.
I think need one is to elect the folks I called the Prophets and Barbarians. We need to find people who are people first and care about people. Let's not be deluded into thinking it will be the technical ability of a candidate that will be paramount. If we find the 3 candidates who can project the idea from their hearts that the real executives in this equation are the people of Emporia and that the role of leadership is to be the public's servant, not its master. The other thing we need to be sure to do is not let the vote get diluted. The county clerk and city attorney have decided that nine candidates will come out of the primary. My suspicious nature says we may be seeing an attempt by the current power structure to dilute the opposition. Don't let them do that. I think the public and the candidates fostering change need to have the understanding that it will be paramount to vote in a slate of the 3 most viable candidates in opposition to the current state and we all need to support them. Then, we need to get our neighbors involved. There is energy right now. It needs to be sustained and it needs to spread. I've read that the events in Tunisia started when a lowly shopkeeper was set upon by the government.I think our current fiasco could be a trigger for a peaceful change. All it takes is sustained energy and votes.
Let's let the energy flow in the right direction!
January 28, 2011 at 11:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
browneyebabygirl22 (anonymous) says...
i walk through town all the time and see the poor conditions on the east side, yards messed up, trash on the streets or in yards from the wind, it is well known east side of emporia is the harder side of town, it would be nice to see the city using tax money to fix all of town, you can't make one side look better and leave the other side looking the way it does. there are buildings that look as though they will fall down, as well as the poor condition of many sidewalks on the east side. why not make the whole town look nice to gain tourist and not make it look like were saying come see our town but only come up town. it would also be nice to see more police patrol on east side of town where we have a big problem with illegal actions of all kinds taken place, i should know i live on the east side of town, why if i dont like it, because thats the only side of town i can aford to live is in the crappy neighborhood. i try my best to pick up trash around where i live but its never enough. many people find it hard to care if it feels as though noone cares about the rest of us.
January 28, 2011 at 12:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
People don't come here to SEE Emporia. They come here because they want to participate in a local event, visit family, business related travel or overnight stop en route to somewhere else. It is proven that where the eyes go so to goes the body. Someone en route to Houston Texas for whatever reason may find themselves on the turnpike heading south and feeling sleepy. They might have planned to stop overnight in Wichita but then they see an inviting entrance to a small town and decide to stop and rest here instead. Anyone who has traveled long distances have turned up a non distinct off ramp only to find an abandoned gas station and nothing else. Why risk turning onto a confusing exit into the unknown? Just keep going and in about an hour and a half you will be in Wichita where you are sure to find accommodations.
But I forgot that people who can dog food for minimum wage or sit on their butts drawing SSI Disability never travel anywhere.
January 28, 2011 at 12:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
Fixing up private property is the homeowners responsibility. Here's some advise. Get the jack out of your car and some wooden shims. Level your front porch. Put the jack back in your car and then drive over to the store and purchase a five gallon bucket of exterior paint, some paint brushes and a paint scraper. Get some exterior grade filler too. Go back home and paint the front of your house all pretty like. Clean up the mess and rake the front yard, dispose of the pile.
January 28, 2011 at 1:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
netloafer says, "It's one thing to have ideas; it's another for people in responsibility to be so out of touch with the community.."
Sorry netloafer, this is where I must disagree. The Building Futures Committee had the ideas, yes, but they apparently didn't research the costs of their ideas far enough to discover that it was going to carry such a huge price tag. In fact, as soon as they reviewed the bids, they should have known better than to even ask the commission for that kind of money. They are extravagant and wasteful.
Why didn't they look for other avenues like the art department at ESU or the Building department at Flinthills Tech to name a couple?
Did they indeed put this out for bids? Or was it a cousin-brother setup? It sure does smack of cronyism. If these were the low bids, I'd sure like to see what the other bids looked like. They must have been out of sight.
Are you saying the people on this Building Futures committee can't see the many other things in this town that need to be taken care of first? What made them think they could pull this off?These people are not viewing the total picture. They are not realists.
This is the same group that has been bellyaching for entrance parks with dog relief places. People of Emporia have been unhappy about that too. That alone should have clued Jamie Sauder and his group in, but they keep insisting. And now this giant mess of an idea. They are going about this the wrong way.
Now the people are on point and they will stay there. That's the "sustained energy" you refer to and I agree with you there for sure.
The events in Egypt found fuel through social blogging. Ours is but a small revolt, but the principle is the same when the people come unglued.
January 28, 2011 at 1:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
REWBA. please stop insulting the people of Emporia. This isn't you at all.
January 28, 2011 at 1:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
netloafer (anonymous) says...
I think we're in agreement for the most part. I don't think it was a good idea and I told Jamie Sauder so. I told him I thought it wouldn't have been very difficult for them to get private funding. But once it got to the commissioners it became their responsibility.
I told Mr. Sauder a story about a time at FedEx when I submitted an proposal that would shift some costs from my organization to our customer base. The shift was gradual and I made the argument it would be transparent. My manager liked it and submitted it to executive management. In about a week they sent a memo back thanking me for thinking, but they also told me to re-think the idea and find a way to achieve the cost savings without it hitting the customer base.
The commissioners could have done that very easily in this case, but they chose not to.
The commission has already spent close to $40K on these things and in the end the rocks will probably get planted. I think we're all angry and frustrated about this. The best place for us to exercise it in the end is at the voting booth.
January 28, 2011 at 2:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
Sorry, I don't know what came over me. Maybe it was that crazy electric bill. Then the people I volunteer to help are bragging that they got their LIHEAP checks and so they go blow the few dollars in their pockets for booze cause they don't have to worry about keeping the heat going. Then I overheard someone who I loaned money too talking to their drug dealer on the phone about getting some dope fronted to them. Then all the insults being tossed on here started irritating me more. I think the final straw was when the public schools who have a breakfast program and a lunch program started begging for food for a mid morning snack program.
Everyone we will ever meet is going through a personal crisis of some sort and we should all keep that in mind before we start cutting each other with sharp words.
But when people who earn less money than what I pay in taxes start in with their class warfare it makes me wonder why I'm such a sucker and it causes me to slash back with a total disregard to anyone's feelings.
If your feelings got hurt...sorry, I'll try a little harder tomorrow.
January 28, 2011 at 2:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Just forcing you to exercise a bit of perpective, REWBA. You know I luv ya. I don't want everyone down on you because you are ordinarily a good guy. Then I'll have to go to war with everyone else. Good grief we don't wanna see blood in the streets.
I agree on the food problem. The breakfast program was begun because of this same problem of hungry kids. Now either that doesn't seem to be working, or they need to give it a shot in the arm. But I digress and should post this on that other thread.
Be good.
January 28, 2011 at 2:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
create,
You were far nicer to REWBA, than I would have been, but that is the difference between you and me and that is what makes the world go round, I guess !!
If you hadn' t said something to REWBA, I was a fixin to and they probably would not have liked it either !!
As you may be able to have ascertained, I am a fighter and quite possibly a little quick to anger, I am trying to get control of the quick to anger part ! !
I truely love Emporia, it is my birth place, my childhood place and my old age place ! But I hate what is being done to it and its people !!
I will help anyone, if I am able and within reason . I am not a bad person, but I guess I may come across as a bad person sometimes !!
January 28, 2011 at 2:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
p.s.
REWBAS next to last sentence in his January 28, 2011 at 2:13 p.m., angered me somewhat and also made me smile at the conotation it implied !
January 28, 2011 at 2:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lcountyvictim (anonymous) says...
REWBA - I'm glad to see Create coaxed an apology out of you, as I was surprised at the judgment and anger radiating through your recent posts.
On another blog someone listed statistics for Emporia. One of those statistics incuded median income. You need to know that the majority of those "people who can dog food for minimum wage" are making more than median income, and well beyond (double or more) your claim of minimum wage. Don't forget that these lowly factory workers are the meat and potatoes of this community and factory workers/SSI recipients also volunteer, pay taxes, raise families, budget, improve properties, travel, etc...not quite the bottom of the food chain as you indicated.
January 28, 2011 at 3:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Tell (anonymous) says...
There will never be a end to streets that need fixed. There will always be something that needs repaired the entrance rocks will be a small step in improving the appearance of our community. Is the price tag to high I would agree it is. It would take millions to fix all of the streets in town, at some point its nice to just try and make some small improvement. Do we need planter islands downtown the answer is no, does it look nice you bet. The project was put out for bid this was the low bid (still very high) I think the next bidder was twelve thousand dollars higher (Emporia Construction) I think the rendering looks awful I hope the real deal looks better. I'm really not sure if I'm for the project or not but bashing people for volunteering their time to try and make Emporia a little nicer is wrong.If you have a idea to improve your communty get off your butt and go to the meetings.
January 28, 2011 at 3:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
booker5m (anonymous) says...
A while back I saw a few compaines where looking to build wind turbins. I ask the RDA about this was told we didnt have building big enough for this. Now one company went to Hutch. and one is now planning a plant in Ottawa. I also ask about the railroad looking for a place to offload the ocean going cargo boxes got no answer on that one but I have been told it went to Gardner and is huge.
If Sauder really wants to help Emporia he should put a building that a industry could use and would come to Emporia. He could call the Earl Sauder Industry Park and I am sure this would make Earl poud. Do more could good than the rocks signs to bring people in.
January 28, 2011 at 3:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Tell (anonymous) says...
Sounds good booker5m why don't you do it? If I was sauder after all of the bashing I wouldn't do squat.
January 28, 2011 at 3:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Tell,
I have been to town hall meetings, City budget meetings, EBOE meetings, as has some other citizens and we have made suggestions and voiced our displeasure at the spending !
However our suggestions and displeasure has fallen on deaf ears, as most of us, I believe are looked upon as just poor ole dumb Emporians from the wrong side of town !!!
Please tell me, have you been to any of the important meetings and offered suggestions or voiced you displeasure in person ?
January 28, 2011 at 3:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
Making an improvement to Emporia is like pulling teeth. I really feel for the good people who seek election to public offices. Just remember, go ahead and make big plans but never, and I mean never execute them.
Even private investments to improve this town get nothing but scorn when a city decides to repair adjoining public property.
A donation of a million dollar convention center gets some praise but the demo of an eye sore to make room for it becomes an argument.
Good luck to all the candidates.
January 28, 2011 at 3:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Tell (anonymous) says...
I'm not complaining about the decision our elected officials made. And Meth if the shoe fits wear it. After all of this bashing I wouldn't volunteer to do anything.
January 28, 2011 at 3:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
booker5m (anonymous) says...
Tell is touchy
January 28, 2011 at 3:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
An improvement to the City is an " IMPROVEMENT " ! But a " WHIM " is just that a " WHIM " !
im·prove·ment
1.an improving or being improved; esp.,
a.betterment
b.an increase in value or in excellence of quality or condition
c.Now Rare profitable use
2.
a.an addition or change that improves something
b.a person or thing representing a higher degree of excellence
3.a change or addition to land or real property, as a sewer, fence, etc., to make it more valuable
Now which of the above definitions best describes the ENTRANCE MONUMENTS as an improvement ?
For those who do not what the word " WHIM " refers to, see the following,
Definition of WHIM
1: a capricious or eccentric and often sudden idea or turn of the mind : fancy
If you do not understand the meaning of the word " capricious ", I will be gald to provide the " meaning " !!
And Tell, no the shoe does not fit and you did not answer my question, why not ?
January 28, 2011 at 4:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
booker5m (anonymous) says...
I didnt bash Sauder he would make his money back on rent or selling the building to an Industry.By the way he trash all those on here who didnt use a real name.
January 28, 2011 at 4:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Absolutely, booker5. He trashed us and said our opinions weren't credible as long as we were anonymous.
What if we did identify ourselves? What good would that do? Would he then look us up or do a credit check to see whether or not to accept our opinions?
No, no, no. Those opinions stand on their own merit no matter WHO voiced them. Get over it, Tell. This is not Who's Who in Emporia Kansas.
January 28, 2011 at 5:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
newtoemporia (anonymous) says...
yev -
"Who are you to judge what one's time and expertise is worth?"
Based upon what other cities spent on their entrance monuments. I researched many cities and know what they spent on designs far more detailed than Emporia's proposed design. And, most of these city's spent less than Emporia, per monument ($10-15,000) but the designs are more detailed than Emporia's proposed design. The city's that spent more than $25,000 per monument have more detail to their designs and included items such as; fountains, trees, flowers and landscaped lighting.
But the true answer can be found in my question. If the commissioners had initially set a budget for $40,000 for four signs (with the identical proposed design), would those who submitted a bid
a) developed a proposal within the $40,00 budget (I.E. $19,000 for entire foundation)?
b) developed a proposal based upon the current numbers (I.E. $41,225 for foundation) and INSISTED this was a fair and just price even though it's more than double budget?
January 28, 2011 at 5:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
back to the basics people.
THEY ARE %$#%&)*$% ROCKS !
IF IT WAS SUCH A GREAT IDEA FOR TOURISM. then the money should have come from the convention and tourism bureau.
Or private funds. When is the last time the chamber has done a fundraiser? BFP is part of the chamber and the city has given them $50,000.00 in funding the last two years and is estimating another $25,000.00 for next year. What have we got for this $75,000.00? A tax tab for another $100,000.00 + god knows what.
This is NOT what we voted for when we extended that tax till 2024.
ANY COMMISSIONER WHO VOTED FOR THIS SHOULD BE RUN OUT OF OFFICE, (if not out of town).
January 29, 2011 at 12:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Yeah, and they're not even nice rocks!!!
I wish people would stop calling them monuments. They're not commemorating anything and they have no historic significance except for representing the dumbest move the city has ever done.
Many good points, Steve, especially about the one fact the commission continues to ignore -- that this is NOT what we voted for when we extended the sales tax. They themselves marketed the "yes" vote when they said it would alleviate the property tax burden.
That commission better get down to business next meeting and DEFINE once and for all what infrastructure means. It does not mean "entrance monuments."
The current definition they are using was finagled.
January 29, 2011 at 8:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
We must remember one thing, when we say the money should have come from the CVB, in reality that money would still be taxpayers money, your/our/my money, as the CVB is funded by the City to the tune of $375,000 per year, which is taxpayers, your/mine/our money !
And you can bet your bottom / last dollar, if the CVB had to pay $100,000 + dollars for the " ROCKS ", they would certainly be asking for more money from the City , us the taxpayers !!
If I were a City Commissioner, I would say to all the organizations the are asking to be funded by City taxpayer monies, " First show me your ideas/plans/research, then the Commission will put it to the " PEOPLE " the taxpayers, get feed back from them , discuss the idea, and then decide whether it is an idea that will benefit " ALL THE PEOPLE ", we as the representatives of " ALL THE PEOPLE " will then decide whether to fund the project or not and I would also abolish all free gratis, City funding to all organizations and only give these organizations the City funds, when and if it is deemed they have a justified need for the funds and the funds will definately be a benefit to the City and " ALL OF THE PEOPLE " and if a plan and research for the use of the funds were presented to the City Commission far in advance of Approval, for Study, discussion by the City Commission and " ALL THE PEOPLE OF THE CITY " , before any such expenditure was " APPROVED " and these organizations would also be made to understand that any and all tax moneys / revenues will be used First and Foremost to keep the Citys " INFRASTRUCTURE " in good stead / repair and to provide " NEEDED PUBLIC SERVICES " !
These organizations would also be made to understand the only when the Citys infrastructure has been maintained and needed public services have been paid for, then and only then will moneys be given to them to use for paying for " EXTRAVAGANT AMENITIES ", such as " ENTRANCE ROCKS " !
In other words " NO UNEEDED, UNNECESSARY, EXTRAVAGANT, WHIM, WANT " spending at all, period ! And you had better be able to prove, beyond any doubt that the spending you would be allowed to do would actually be of long term benefit to the City and " ALL OF THE PEOPLE " or there would be " NO FUNDING " from the City / the people at all !
Only that which you could glean from the people in way of donations for any extravagant wants !
Isn' t this the way most of us run our private individual budgets, purchase only what is a necessity / need, then if we are lucky enough to have any extra, then the " TOYS / FRILLS / TRINKETS " can / may be purchased ?
Anyway , that is how I am forced to run my private budget !!
January 29, 2011 at 9:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
And one more thing that really interests and puzzles me is .
Since a big deal has been made, that these organizations, committees are made up of so called volunteers, why do they need so much money, " UP FRONT " in the first place and why do they need operating expenses, if they are an unpaid volunteer committee / organization ?
Why do they need a business building w/ offices and a meeting room, can' t these volunteers meet and discuss / decide what to spend, needlessly on in one of the members / volunteers homes or the civic building, courthouse, Anderson building or even the new donated Boyer building, when it is built ?
Do the heads, assistants, secretarys, etc., of these committees / organizations get paid ? I know Kent Heerman gets paid pretty well !
Who pays Heermans salary, does it come out of the donated City / taxpayers funds, if so why ? Isn' t the RDA supposed to be a not-for-profit, mainly volunteer organization ?
This City of Emporia is just full of " AVORISTIC " rats and rat holes, that is draing each and every taxpayer, even the City dry !
January 29, 2011 at 9:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
marko (anonymous) says...
i am quite sure that given a bit of thought and research, someone could come up with a 'dumber' expenditure by the city, however that doesn't make this one better.
January 29, 2011 at 9:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
And here is something else to think about !
The rainy season is not far off, the storm water drainage system is in disrepair and I think we all know, depending on the amount of rain that falls, some or most of the streets will again be flooded ! And the projected cost to fix the problem is $7 million dollars ! Exactly what is the Commission / City Managers plan for fixing the problem and whats more important, is how do they plan to fund / pay for the " FIX " , borrow $7million, by issuing bonds, raise property taxes, raise / extend sales taxes and just how much was a " CONSULTANT " paid to tell them they had a problem , especially when the problem has been visable to everyone in and out of the City for 50+ years and why wait until now to fix the problem ?
I am not a hydraulics engineer or a professional " CONSULTANT ", but I do know that you can only move a certain amount of liquid thru a certain size " PIPE " and the storm water drainage system for this City has been way to small for the amount of rainfall that the City can and does receive at times !
This problem could have been made less, if the storm water drainage system would have been overhauled when the City was still " FLUSH " with jobs and taxpayers, if the city leaders would have had the forsight to think about City infrastructure needs, instead of personal wants / needs !
Now the few of us taxpayers are going to have to bear the largest part of the burden / load ! Because those who received tax abatements are not required to bear much of the load !!
I guess I had better quit, for a while, and try to calm down ! I don' t know why, but every time I think of the idiotic way this City is run and the idiots / idiocy of those who are influencing these decisions, I get flaming " ANGRY / MAD !
January 29, 2011 at 9:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Tell (anonymous) says...
Meth I would like to compliment you on your outstanding quality on finding and pointing out the negative in anything. You truley have a gift. ;) Don't let these ole rocks get you so fired up. Have a nice day.
January 29, 2011 at 11:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
Has there been any more word on the chuggah chuggah choo choo train stop that was discussed a while back?
Strong City is competing for a stop and they are kicking Emporia's butt. Feasibility Report of Proposed Amtrak Service dated March 9, 2010 contained resolutions and letters of support from many communities along the proposed route. Emporia failed to provide a resolution or a letter of support whereas the little community to the West ensured their voice was heard. That community was proactive and letters of support for passenger rail service at Strong City poured in from:
United States Department of the Interior National Park Service
Camp Wood YMCA
City of Cottonwood Falls
Grand Central Hotel
Strong City Housing Authority
Rettiger Realty & Tax
City of Strong City
Chase County Chamber of Commerce
What happened Emporia? Were you too busy griping about entrance signs to even write one letter of support? When the passenger trains filled with tourists pass through on their way to the Flint Hills, please don't try to lure them to the "front porch". That place is an embarrassment. The thing looks like it's falling down. You really aught to put up something pretty to lure the eye away from the ugly.
January 29, 2011 at 11:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Good research, REWBA. I am surprised to know this, but given the rocks fiasco, I should not be surprised at all. But don't blame the community itself.
When the railroad situation was first mentioned, why didn't this now famous rocks committee jump on the bandwagon and rally the community and visit the different businesses to get behind this? Individual businesses and organizations cannot work alone. They must be able to get together, attend commission meetings and push for something like this.
I seem to remember Zimmerman saying something negative about this at the time. I wondered why when we already have a depot, or part of one anyway.
January 29, 2011 at 12:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
Santa Fe decided to torch the mothballed rail depots in cities who tried to stick them with outrageous taxes and fees. Emporia must have been one of those cities.
Emporia has some really good people but their leadership are miserable salespeople who are easily sold on ideas that lead to nowhere.
One example is a $10,000 dollar one time advertisement in a magazine. Suckers at the CVB could have held on to that money and used it to lure the salespeople from the big "O" to Emporia numerous times without ever committing. Imagine how much money would have been spent on lodging, meals and incidentals if ad salesmen from twenty or thirty National Publications competed for the 10K.
Sorry, but the spouses of Emporia's elite are the wrong people to put in charge of spending our seed money. They are for the most part just a bunch of Gold Diggers themselves and that is putting it nicely.
While Emporia is all riled up it would be a good time to replace the whole bunch down at the CVB too. After all, they don't really do anything but sit in their expensive building and take credit for the accomplishments of others. Once in a while as they lead their dogs on a brown landmine planting mission one of them will pick up a piece of paper and demand community applause but for the most part that's all they accomplish.
January 29, 2011 at 12:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
I must admit that the 4th and 5th paragraphs of my last post was harsh and I should have deleted them before hitting the post comment button. So, If you are a gold digger or a dog, please accept my most sincere apologies. I will try harder tomorrow. Also, my comment that suggested that somehow Santa Fe was responsible for the tragic fires that turned mothballed depots into vacant lots was totally ridiculous. Santa Fe has never left New Mexico in it's whole life. Sorry Santa Fe. :-)
January 29, 2011 at 1:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Tell,
Thank you very much, as you may know for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction and that goes for positives and negatives also !
Yes, there have been positives in Emporia, but the positives have been few in number lately and expensive " ROCKS ", to my way of thinking is not a positive, also giving hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars to an organization that shows, something positive, once in a great while is not positive in nature nor is allowing the Citys infrastructure to crumble and decay for years, while someone in their infinate wisdom " SQUANDERS " taxpayer funds on " expravagant " WANTS OR WHIMS ", instead of " POSITIVE-LY " keeping the Citys Infrastructure in good " STEAD ", when it was needed and would cost less to do and more jobs, businesses and taxpayers were available to help fund the " NEEDED " expenditure, instead of waiting for 50+ years and then all of a sudden realizing that there is a problem that has needed to be fixed for those 50+ years !
Would you wait for 50 + plus years until your house crumbled down around your ears to repair it at a cost much greater than if you would have been fixing what needed to be fixed each and every year, when you had the funds to do so, instead of ignoring the pressing need and spending money on the unneeded unnecessary " WANTS and WHIMS ?
January 29, 2011 at 1:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
In case anyone has forgotten or just plain don' t care, The City of Emporia is " YOUR HOUSE " !!
You/we/ the taxpayers need to demand that those whom we have elected to take care of " YOUR/OUR HOUSE " are and should be spending " OUR " taxpayer money on the upkeep, repair, replacement, maintenance of the " INFRASTRUCTURE / FOUNDATION of " YOUR/OUR HOUSE " as the PRIMARY / FIRST / MOST IMPORTANT expense ( POSITIVE ) and that not so necessary " WANTS and WHIMS " spending comes last, if at all and only if it will be of benefit to " ALL THE PEOPLE !!
January 29, 2011 at 2:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
As I have said before, when I see a " POSITIVE " and experiece or see the results of it, I will praise it and if I profess something to be " Negative " and am proven wrong by positive, beneficial results I will admit I was wrong !!
I can do nothing else, as that is who I am !!
January 29, 2011 at 2:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Strong City is kicking Emporias butt, because they do not spend more than they can afford on unnecessary, unneeded " FRILLS " !
As for an R.R. depot in Strong City, what better location for an R.R. depot, than a Town that is situated almost, smack in the middle of the FLINT HELLS, as some say a big tourist attraction !
I wonder if anyone has thought of starting a " Flint Hills Tourist " bus tour business to take Tourists/Visitors on a day long tour of the FLINT HILLS and the KNUTE ROCKNE " monument site ??
January 29, 2011 at 2:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
You need Tourist services to attract Toruists, Rock Signs alone will not do it !!!
January 29, 2011 at 2:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
methusla, If someone were to propose building handicapped accessible walking trails along both sides of the river down at Sodens Grove, I would imagine that you would go on a tirade about the wastefulness of spending money in a flood zone.
That river is a problem during high water but people like me believe that it is one of the greatest assets this community has. Yet it sits there, untapped and wasted. Beauty is in nature and there are miles and miles of nature along that bank that would draw people out of the cities to see it. Fishermen would love to stay the night in a nice Hotel, dine at a nice restaurant, and catch one fish after another the next morning. Problem is, nobody is selling it and even if they were, the trails are not assessable to people who don't like climbing, slipping or falling.
Trails are infrastructure and can be quite affordable. Every spring a certain species of fish run up the Cottonwood River to spawn. They are the freshwater drum, Aplodinotus grunniens. It is also known for its succulent flesh, but many fishermen are put off by its mucus lining and dank smell. Freshwater Drum can weigh in excess of 54 lbs. They are really fun to catch and we have them every spring but never take advantage of this natural phenomena. April and May could could fill the lodges and fine dining establishments with city folk here to rid us of our trash fish in exchange for gold.
Oh well, best not to invest in this hair brain scheme lest we be scorned by the great methusla.
January 29, 2011 at 2:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Fun to catch, NOT fun to eat. I'll take ponds and watersheds in the Hills over the rivers here any day. Catch and release is a good thing, but I like to take a few home to eat.
January 29, 2011 at 5:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
REWBA,
My first question about such handicapped accessible walking trails along any River, which is and can be a dangerous and life threatening place to a physically able person, let alone a handicapped person , would be just how safe to the handicapped person could the trails be made and to what extent would there be any libality to the City and its people, if a handicapped person were to fall in the Rivers and drown ?
Would the handicapped person be required to sign a waiver of responsiblity before embarking on such a trail, in order to release anyone but themselves from any responsibility of liability ?
Let me tell you when I was physically able I used to fish both the Cottonwood River and Neosho Rivers from almost their sources to Neosho Rapids and John Redmond and it was a somewhat dangerous undertaking then .
But, since I have become handicapped / disabled I do not venture near either river, except at times on the Bridges and even then very rarely and I wish I felt differently, as my son dearly wishes me to go RIVER fishing with him again, but I tell him he would not like the experience or memory of seeing me or any one fall into a River, Lake, Pond, etc. and watch me drown because I cannot use my legs or arms well enough to swim like I used to !
No sir, If such trails could be guaranteed to be safe and fall in, drown proof and not only for the handicapped but for everyone snd absolutely relieve the City of any and all LIBABILITY / RESPOSIBILITY then I would consider such an endeavor or expenditure !
You see Ideas are kinda like A$$ HOLES, everybody got one, but when it comes to ideas, plans, if you don' t think them and the possible ramafications of the idea, people could get seriously hurt, both physically and economicly !!
You see I have always looked at and thought about an idea or plan for more than a minute or two and considered all the possibilities before jumping headlong, hell bent into it head first and end up bashing my head or pocket book on a hard place or creating a hard place for me or anyone else !!!
Thank You !!!!
January 29, 2011 at 5:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
C' mon people, continue to beat up on ole methusla all you want, you will find I can give as good as I recieve !
And I see there are those on these threads who are so wealthy and have the old " I don' t care what it costs " attitude, that it makes no difference whether their money is spent foolishly or not and apparently they make so much money and spend more in taxes than some make they don' t have a care in the world, about anything !!
January 29, 2011 at 5:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
JMO
I think we should all step back and remember what we are mad about. This isn't about walking trails, or snow removal or Tourism, (hah). This isn't about Methusla or anyone else here on these blogs.
This is about The Building Futures Program,(or committee), shooting a request for financing a stupid idea.
This is about our city manager pushing for it and the commission voting for it using sales tax money promised to us to be reserved for infrastructure. UNANIMOUSLY !
Undue influence from the sidelines? Some think so. At this time it doesn't matter.
What matters is we have been lied to. Big stones are NOT infrastructure.
And for anyone who thinks they could pass this off as it, really must think, "Emporians' are dumb hicks".
(someone else's quote)
Right now we need to keep that anger going and put it to use. The only way we can do that is to vote against the incumbent who is running for re-election, Bob Agler .
And if you think there is undue unelected big powerful influences directing our city commission, we need to be aware of all of the ties, business and social connections the various candidates have.
So please go back to the top of this page and read the story. and if that doesn't help focus your anger go to this link and re-read this story.
http://www.emporiagazette.com/news/20...
Let's keep our anger focused on those who pi***d us off in the 1st. place
PLEASE?
January 29, 2011 at 7:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
You are right Steve C., I am mad as hell and will most like stay mad as hell at the stupid waste of taxpayers money by the City Manager, City Commission / Commissioners and those who are the power/influence behind the stupid, ill thought out / not thought out decisions the City Manager, Commission / Commissioners did not have the go nads to say " NO " to, if this was the best idea anyone could come up with !
After all wasting money is just that, " WASTING MONEY ", no matter whos' idea it was and who approved of it !!
I was answering an asinine comment about, what I thought about handicapped walking trails next to some of the most dangerous things in the world, " RIVERS '" ! The fact of the matter is numerous lives have been lost in both the Cottonwood and Neosho Rivers in and around Emporia !!
I am sorry for sounding so " CRASS " in my response, but stupid, asinine comments, such as the last one by REWBA, anger almost as much as wasting taxpayer money does !
January 29, 2011 at 8:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
heloves (anonymous) says...
Food, clothing and shelter. Learn to be content with these. Reading, writing and arithmetic. The amenities aren't wrong unless the minors become majors. Our children are already too rapidly learning aberrant materialism and it is killing them in more way than one. Spending taxpayers money on other that what it was collected for is fraud and theft. For those on the commission who have put wants above needs for political favor you might consider consulting your pastor. Absolution does not equal repentance. If ya'll want the rocks, raise private funds or pay for them yourselves. Those who donate have given their vote of yes. Someone might consider the legalities of trying to recoup moneys already spent. Someone pointed out earlier the east side of town. We all have personal responsibility for our own property, but streets fall under the heading of city services.Again, anything "frivolous" purchased is theft of services against the public. The taxpayers would likely be in jail for doing the same thing done to them. Reminds me of the story in the Bible where a woman kept pestering the king, he finally did what she asked just to shut her up. His motive was evil, but the request was granted. Such actions as this might help us to think about our misuse of the catch phrase "No Fear". It's better to do right out of love and because it's the right thing to do. But John Newton wrote "Amazing Grace" based on a terrifying conversion experience. We could all probably use a little more constructive fear. That which changes one for the better. True happiness only comes from proper service. Self-service usually comes back to bite, now or later. What good does it do to hoodwink visitors? A rock facade(band-aid) on the outskirts gets pretty "bloody" when your vehicle is beat to pieces inside. Topeka has pulled the same shenanigans. Show them were smarter than that. Thank God, we have the right of vote, re-call, etc. But if we don't' use it how far down the road will it be before we look like Egypt, Haiti, etc. at our own hand. They don't have a choice. We allow quasi dictatorship and then get angry at the results. Most are level-headed, but no all are. But all told this could fall under James 1. Foolish decisions of self and others are trials that can teach patience. Yet I was told long ago, that although God understands our weaknesses and will even forgive, He doesn't condone wrong. As taxpayers we don't have to either.
January 29, 2011 at 11:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eccentriceric (anonymous) says...
I know the streets are bad but that's nothing if you seen the streets on the north side of El Dorado. in the getto they're so bumpy and full of holes that I could only go 5-10mph and at that someone yelled at me i was driving to fast. I could not believe those streets. It makes our streets look good!!! then there's dirt streets in the getto in North Wichita!!! i was like WTF.
January 30, 2011 at 12:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Good comment overall, heloves, especially this: "Spending taxpayers money on other that what it was collected for is fraud and theft."
Exactly! It's about time someone referred to this rocks fiasco in the proper terms. Theft and fraud.
When I voted "yes" on the sales tax question last year, I fully understood it to mean that it would lighten the tax load of the property owners. In fact that is how many on the city commission marketed it. Now this? Yes, fraud is a perfect term.
January 30, 2011 at 10:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )