Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

feds can't afford giving this money away either.

Not for profits, it's time to stand on your own or cease to exist. If it is worthwhile the private sector will support it. SIMPLE !

January 21, 2011 at 11:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

I agree Steve ! And can only say, AAAHHH, no more free hand outs, as everyone is going broke from '
FREE HANDOUTS, GOV'T. SUBSIDIES " etc.. The taxpayers can no longer afford to pay for, as the taxpayers are also going broke !
I guess its time for the The National Endowment for the Arts to approach China to see if China will subsidize their organization ! But they will have to remember, China will expect to either be repaid or at least something in return !!! Whole different scenario, dealing with China than with the pushover U.S. governments !!

January 21, 2011 at 2:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bobhornet (anonymous) says...

Okay, so let's cut state funding for science and the National Science Foundation, too. I'm tired of government cutting the arts and humanities while funding the sciences with billions. Cut one, cut all...

January 21, 2011 at 2:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

A little bait there bobhornet?

If not for the national science foundation and Al Gore, you and I would not be debating on here now would we?

January 21, 2011 at 3:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

doubt_it (anonymous) says...

@ Steve_Corbin
ROFLMAO.......tis true

January 21, 2011 at 3:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bobhornet (anonymous) says...

Nice one, Steve. I stand by my point though: I'm tired of the hypocrisy in saying teh government should end subsidies and allow not-for-profits to stand on their own, and yet you seem to support a subsidy for the NSF--which was $7 billion in 2009! (BTW, the National Endowment for the Humanities federal subsidy: $150 million, or 2% of what we pony up for science!)

Arts and humanities research may not allow Al Gore to create the Internet or cure cancer, but it does promote quality of life. Is that unimportant?

January 21, 2011 at 4:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

Bobhornet,

i will admit to you and anyone else i am kind of a dork. But I would also state that the development of the internet has done a whole lot more for Economic development and commerce than a museum or gallery with some purdy pictures. Call me uncouth but that's just how i feel. Sorry, to me quality of life is pretty much subjective, so we both have an argument , don't we?

January 21, 2011 at 9:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

by the way, I think the budget for the NSF could be cut a whole bunch. maybe 50% or more.

January 21, 2011 at 9:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

abd (anonymous) says...

So let's decline the federal money for Kansas and demand that they send it to a different state. That will certainly show them! Then, we can say we only fund our own state. Let's do that for highways, schools, fire/police/ems training, and college student loans. Nobody in Kansas wants federal money for anything. That will certainly teach them. We will, of course, still have to pay federal taxes. We just won't accept any of it back in our state. Good plan.

January 21, 2011 at 9:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

abd, Where did you get that idea?

what is the purpose of government?

highways, schools, fire / police / ems ?

The arts?

Studies on cattle flatulence affecting air quality and the o-zone?

And what federal money are you talking about? Isn't it ours to begin with? Do you think it's a bottomless pit of cash?

January 22, 2011 at 3:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

January 22, 2011 at 3:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

or a little more locally

http://www.usdebtclock.org/state-debt...

January 22, 2011 at 3:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bobhornet (anonymous) says...

Just a 50% cut for the NSF, Steve? Let's cut that government subsidy all the way! After all, and in your own words: "If it is worthwhile the private sector will support it."

I'm choking on the hypocrisy...

January 22, 2011 at 7:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

abd (anonymous) says...

Steve,

My thought was this: Why should Kansas throw away this money? I am NOT in favor of increased spending, but it's already going to be spent somewhere. It came from all of us, not just Emporians or Kansans. It is from all people in the United States. Why not send some of it to my state instead of others? Do you really believe that federal taxes will be reduced because the good people of Kansas turn some of it down on principle? I don't.

As for those few examples of programs that I mentioned off the top of my head, I don't use them currently, but I hope to God that they are there, well trained, available, and well-equipped if I do need them. I am thankful that I have only had one ambulance ride in my life. I am doubly thankful for those men and women, their equipment, training, the well-maintained roads we used, the hospital that we arrived at quickly, etc.

I guess I am saying that yes, I do think that's one of the jobs of a good government- to provide for the safety and well-being of citizens.

You may disagree and that's OK. I'm not really interested in a two-person debate, just continuing the public discourse.

January 22, 2011 at 8:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

well you sure got me there huh?

I guess I am a hypocrite. Who among us is not?
Who can say if the NSF was not funded by tax dollars that G.E. or some other private company would fund the research.
Who can say that if the Arts Foundation is not funded by tax dollars , those same companies wouldn't step in?

I suppose we won't know unless we stop all funding of non-essentials. But then the argument is , "What is Essential?" Who decides that?

I am trying to think of a less hypocritical way to say it.

i would rather the government, (both state and federal) use my tax money to pay a teachers or cop, or firefighters salary than sponsor an art fair.

I would rather the state use tax dollars to build a new prison for criminals than bring a traveling art exhibit to Kansas.

I would rather our citizens and tax payers realize that it is not state money or federal money, it is the taxpayers money.
The more we can keep the more we could, as private donors, help out.

And I would much rather our city use the money being spent on some rocks for a down payment on a 7 million dollar sewer improvement project.

While you find hypocrisy in my postings, the condescending attitude in most of your posts is equally tiring.

I guess we could skip reading each others posts, but where's the fun in that?

January 22, 2011 at 8:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

Please refer to the above debt clock links
Stare at them for 1 minute..
The numbers being run up on them will make you dizzy.

i just don't understand what part of "
being broke" some don't understand?

We are broke people! The city,state and federal governments are just surviving on a borrowed dime. DEEP spending cuts are needed and needed now on all levels.

HOW MUCH OF OUR KIDS AND GRAND KIDS FUTURE ARE WE WILLING TO MORTGAGE TO MAINTAIN "OUR QUALITY OF LIFE"?

January 22, 2011 at 9:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

justaflushaway (anonymous) says...

maybe some of these people with kids should start explaining to them that life may be a little different that it is now.

kinda like the idiot keeps saying the same lame thing, I also get sick of everyone saying, "BUT ITS FOR THE CHILDREN", who in the hell even started that line to scare people and makes the rest of us pay for their 3 seconds of fun, kbthomas you are a idiot

January 22, 2011 at 9:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bobhornet (anonymous) says...

Steve, if I've come across as condescending I'm sorry. This is a delicate issue for me, because I've worked and taught in the humanities for years and have watched sciences get the lion's share of money and respect. There's a lot of good that the NEH and NSF do--and a lot of sheer crap that gets funded, too.

I think your larger points are right on: 1) that we're broke and getting broker; 2) that we need to think thoughtfully about what is essential and what is not.

P.S. I'm right there with you on the stupid rocks!

January 22, 2011 at 9:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

bobhornet,

understood and i also apologize for my snide remark.

i think that on here people often butt heads over things and they actually may have more in common then they realize. But it is our differences that make it interesting.

That said I would say I have nothing against the arts and humanities, or science and health, or quality of life issues. i have nothing against economic development either, but that is such a broad term.

i am not a crazy conservative or a liberal or anything really. But I truly believe that the best government is the smallest possible government. I complain about some of the things that tax dollars support because I am now at the age of thinking about the lives my grandchildren will have. I look at the burden you and I are putting on them in the future because we refuse to RE-THINK our own little world.

Yes I know their world would be bleak and dreary without the arts. And it could be even more dangerous without spending on the sciences. And we need to spend taxes on educating them so they are able to survive in the new global economy. But we have to do it smarter than we have done the last couple of decades.

Throughout our history, Americans' have sacrificed their time, sweat, money and even their lives to make it a better life for the next generation.

Right now, some of our generation are chanting the slogan "It's For The Children", while at the same time refusing to pay for it and mortgaging that very future with unpaid debt. it's sad and it has to stop.

January 23, 2011 at 8:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

Bob, i refer you to this story: http://www.emporiagazette.com/news/20... for an example.

Rob Scheib stated Administrative jobs would take a 1% pay cut. Another cost cutting measure would be to drop 4th and 5th grade orchestra.

Now i don't know if 4th and 5th graders are ready for orchestra at their age, but I am pretty sure most of the admin. salaries are over 80K a year, (not a bad wage for this areas cost of living index).
So if it really is "all about the children", couldn't admin take a larger cut in salary to keep the orchestra?

January 23, 2011 at 11:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

I certainly agree with keeping the orchestra. 4th and 5th grade is where these kids pick up valuable fundamentals. Besides, many people send their kids to private lessons at that age, so it isn't the age that's the problem here.

Many a high school orchestra and band student picked up their fundamentals in grade school classes. Music is like a language, and the earlier a child learns it, the faster and more easily he or she can be fluent.

Exactly how much is it costing for the 4th and 5th graders to have orchestra? A teacher? A room? The occasional concert? It can't be the instruments since students provide their own.

I'd like to see an accounting. And why are we picking on music? So many districts have already removed FACS (Family And Consumer Sciences) classes from their curricula, then Art. Now music?

The Gazette needs an investigative reporter that will go after this sort of information.

January 23, 2011 at 12:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

How much is the athletic program costing the district?

January 23, 2011 at 12:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

REWBA (anonymous) says...

Steve_Corbin my friend what you say is quite true, here's a million for the children so what do we do? We hire consultants who don't have a child, and hand them 200K and let them go wild. Once they have finished their study they say here's the plan, then the administrators walk away with the 800 grand. They fix up their office and buy a car too, once they pay their own salary the money is through. So they return to the table with hats in their hand, "It all for the children" we need buildings and land. The old ones are old and my friends aren't impressed, if you're for the children you'll give me the best. Meanwhile all those children we spend money for, have left and are saying "last one out close the door."

January 23, 2011 at 12:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )