Only one day remains to sign up for the Ducks Unlimited Flint Hills Chapter Goose Shoot and more teams are needed to make the event a go.
The deadline to register for the Canada Goose Shoot is Wednesday and a hunt must have a minimum of eight teams to make the event a go. Right now, there are only five teams signed up.
The hunt will start a half hour before sunrise Saturday for a team’s given location. At least one team member from each three-man team must arrive at Natasha’s in Emporia at 5 a.m. Saturday to rendezvous and pick-up a randomly assigned observer. Teams are allowed to hunt as long as they want with the understanding that all geese must be checked in at the Goose Shoot Headquarters (Natasha’s) by no later than 3 p.m. Saturday.
Teams will be judged by weight of a full three-man limit of Canada geese. A total of 25 shells are allowed per team and will be provided by the team. Guides are responsible for counting shots fired and their decision is final. Each hunter is responsible for their limit of three birds. Winners will be determined by the number of geese, the number of geese and total weight of geese, the number of geese, total weight and the number of shells used, and all shells must be returned to the observer at the end of the hunt.
To register call Brandon Mendoza, 344-2705 or Tyler Trahoon, 794-7187. The entry fee is $75 per person in three-man teams. There is an optional “Big Goose” contest, which is an additional $10 to enter. The hunter that weighs in the largest Canada goose will receive half the money from the pot. If there is a tie, that half will be split between tied teams. There also will be cash prizes for first, second and third place based on the number of entries.
PattyA (anonymous) says...
What a disgusting article.
As if the geese don't have it tough enough surviving the rigors of winter, we "superior" humans have to go out shooting them and offering "rewards" for the most geese killed or the heaviest.
We celebrate and "reward" killing and we develop ever more powerful guns.
Then, we ask "why" or express shock when some loon goes out to a supermaket or work place or school or mall and kills a bunch of people after legally buying the gun in a "sporting goods" shop.
Canada geese are extraordinary birds. They mate for life and are extremely devoted to their families and flock mates. They mourn the deaths of their cherished group members, as we do ours.
Shame on those who would delight in bringing misery and death to other members of nature. And shame on your paper for giving space to this kind of blood and death "event."
January 12, 2011 at 9:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
HenryVIII (anonymous) says...
PattyA,
People gotta eat. It's not like the goose meat goes to waste. What's better, shooting a goose in its natural environment after it has lived a free life, or killing a chicken with a cleaver after it has spent its life in a pen?
Humans are hunters and gatherers. We are omnivores. We are at the top of the food chain thanks to our intelligence and ability to make tools. (like guns) What would you do in the event of a natural disaster or some other event that cripples our infrastructure? The people participating in this event will be able to go hunt for food. How will you feed your family after the grocery store is looted and there is no power or running water?
'enry
January 12, 2011 at 9:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Probably burgle the beef from you Henry ;>)
January 12, 2011 at 9:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Where's the beef?
Now that is Fowl !
sorry
January 12, 2011 at 9:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
FEMA
January 12, 2011 at 9:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
HenryVIII (anonymous) says...
Steve_Corbin,
I've never had to hunt for food. I've ate fish that I've caught, of course. Last year, during a snow/ice storm, we lost power at the house for quite a while and had little food at the house. Luckily, a nearby fast food joint still had power so we drove there and loaded up on a bunch of sandwiches to last us a couple of days.
There is no doubt that we'd be in trouble in a prolonged event. I do have a firearm at the house, however, to defend my burgers from being burgled. Nobody burgles my beef!
'enry
January 12, 2011 at 10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Marionlynne (anonymous) says...
I agree with Patty; disgusting article and disgusting 'sport'. Geese are probably the most family oriented creature on the planet and their loyalty to their mates and families puts most humans to shame. The goons who think it is fun to make killing them a game are just that - insensitive unconscionable goons without the ability to think or appreciate the suffering a goose must feel when their happy family lifts up from the pond on a beautiful morning only to find the air exploding around them and their loved ones torn apart in the air and falling around them. These birds are so much more admirable than the idiots who think them and their big guns are so superior. Not.
"From beasts we scorn as soulless, in forests, field, and den,
The cry goes up to witness the SOULLESSNESS of men…M. Frida Hartley
January 12, 2011 at 10:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
HenryVIII (anonymous) says...
Marionlynne,
What do you like to eat? I suppose you are a vegetarian. Veggies have feelings too! Plants are made up of living cells that you gorge yourself on. Way to go, murderer. One day, the plants will rise-up against your gluttonous crimes!
'enry
P.S. If we weren't meant to eat geese, they wouldn't be so tasty and easy to obtain. Thanks, God!
January 12, 2011 at 10:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Marionlynne (anonymous) says...
HenryVIII,
You are supposed to think with your brain not your stomach. Humans probably taste good too and there are a lot more of us on the planet than geese if taste and availability are the criteria.
January 12, 2011 at 10:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
Humans are reserved for the sky people. Non-Smokers only. Sky people don't like their meat smoked.
January 12, 2011 at 10:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
HenryVIII (anonymous) says...
Marionlynne,
I don't think I'd be as easy to obtain as a goose. If I'm chillin' on the pond and I see a group of people approaching me with guns (and blaze orange vests), I won't fly straight up in the air for them to shoot me. You see, I'm smarter than a goose. I'd probably drive my motorboat (tool) to the opposite shore, jump in my truck (tool), and get the heck out of Dodge. Our intelligence and tools we humans create are also used for defensive/survival tactics, not just hunting.
You prove how misguided you are regarding this issue by thinking I'd be easier to eat than a goose. If someone tries to shoot and eat me, they might just end up on my BBQ grill. (mmm, salty) I'd like to see a goose put up that kind of fight. Hint: that ain't gonna happen because dumb animals are meant to be eaten by smarter creatures. Ever see the movie Avatar? They love the creatures on their planet, but they also kill and eat 'em. What about the Native Americans? Were they wrong to kill deer and buffalo for food, tools, and shelter?
Do you think people have souls? Do animals? Insects? Plants? Why is eating a chicken better than a goose? Also, you didn't really answer my question. What do you enjoy eating?
Great...now I'm hungry...
REWBA,
Indeed, the great harvest will soon come and the Sky People will feast on the flesh of the pure. Quit smoking today and join us on our path to the next level! In the next plane of existence, liquor is always sold on Sunday!
'enry
January 12, 2011 at 11:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
HenryVIII (anonymous) says...
Also, "Goose Shoot Saturday" would be an awesome name for a bluegrass or country music group.
'enry
January 12, 2011 at 11:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yev_kassem (anonymous) says...
That is not a bad article or an article in poor taste. Brandy was simply explaining that an event was occuring soon and here is what you need to do if you are interested in that.
Shoot the messenger why don't you?
Also, you may or may not be for hunting but it is a sport and/or a hobby that some like to do. It is not for everyone but neither is crocheting or scrapbooking.
And breaking up a family...give me a break. It is a goose. How in the world do you know what it is thinking? You can't talk or communicate with it so you have no idea.
Maybe some of the geese are happy when their mate doesn't come home because then they don't have to hear her yap yap yap about how he doesn't take out the trash or feed the kids or ask for directions. "We have been flying in this same V for 10 hours!"
January 12, 2011 at 11:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
When referring to the geese as "dumb animals," have any of you ever owned and loved a dog? Why did you love the dog? Because you got to truly KNOW the dog and appreciate his/her unique qualities and emotions and devotions similar to humans.
Well, some of us observe and have gotten to know geese, too.
And no, geese are not just "dumb animals."
In fact, they communicate a great deal with each other through various honks, body language and other sounds.
Over the summer, there was a family of Canada geese at Central Park. One of the six goslings had "Angel Wing," a condition that renders the goose flightless.
When the other goslings were big enough to fly, the parents had to teach them flight and prepare them to move to fall and winter location. But, the Angel Wing gosling could not go with them.
But, the family did not just abandon the flightless gosling. They kept returning for weeks to insure he was OK.
When at last, the family left for good, the lone gosling honked pathetically for several days before settling in on his own.
Eventually, "Binky" was rescued and sent to a sanctuary, as the CP pond freezes over in winter. But, it was remarkable that the family did not desert him until reasonably sure he could survive on his own.
A couple of months ago, a flock of migratory geese flew into a Central Park lake. They stayed a couple of weeks before moving on. There was one goose who continually swam separate from the rest and honked a long, despairing "call", similar to the Angel Winged gosling after his family finally left.
One could only surmise that this particular goose lost his/her mate somewhere along the migratory path.
No, the geese are not just "dumb animals" any more than your family dog.
They mourn the losses of members of their group, just as we and other animals do.
January 12, 2011 at 12:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ToxicPink (anonymous) says...
I don't like hunting as a game, as fun, even if the meat does go to a good cause.
Killing animals shouldn't be fun, it should be out of necessity.
Like food, or overpopulation.
If there is an overpopulation of geese and we need to thin them out then by all means those that are able to help should...but not because its a game. =( A promotion of an event could be put into place, but why make it a competition. If you love hunting for whatever reason, shouldn't you want to participate for you hobby not because you want to win something?
January 12, 2011 at 12:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
According to Dept of Interior, there are an estimated 3.8 million Canada geese throughout the entire United States.
That does not seem like "overpopulation" by any stretch of the imagination. We have ten times more people and we are four times the size of a goose. We can get more than a million people at Times Sqare on New Year's Eve.
What alarms many of us who care about nature and our environment, is that with "culling," gassing and harassment programs already instituted against Canada geese all over the country, that expanded hunting will bring these magnificent birds to the brink of extinction as what nearly occurred in the middle of the last century.
According to several recent bird counts (and articles), the Canada goose population is "woefully down from what it was ten years ago." -- That quote is from a hunter.
January 12, 2011 at 1:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
shooooosh,
Be vewy, vewy quiet.
I'm hunting a wascally wabbit.
January 12, 2011 at 1:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
AverageCitizen2 (anonymous) says...
My grandmother owned geese. They are mean.
January 12, 2011 at 1:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ToxicPink (anonymous) says...
Wild animals can be mean lol
January 12, 2011 at 1:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
Dogs can be "mean." -- Especially when they have mean owners.
Canada geese are among the most peaceful creatures on the planet.
It has been documented many times how other birds who (for whatever reason), lose their flock, will hang and fly with Canada geese. They seek the geese for the protection and security the geese offer and almost always, the peaceful geese accept them.
Geese parents will readily adopt orphaned goslings who are not their own.
This past summer, I personally witnessed three mother mallards who took their ducklings at night to rest within feet of the Canada goose family. -- Again for reasons of security and safety.
"Mean?"
The only thing that's mean is the way some people malign, falsely label and disparage the geese for their own agendas.
January 12, 2011 at 1:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yev_kassem (anonymous) says...
PattyA--
Permits and licensing is in place in order to neither deplete an animal population too greatly nor to allow overpopulation of a certain species.
January 12, 2011 at 1:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yev_kassem (anonymous) says...
Rosemary Mushroom Goose Breast
Ingredients
3 tablespoons olive oil, divided 3 tablespoons minced garlic 1 cup red wine vinegar 4 goose breasts 1 1/4 cups milk 1/2 cup chopped onion 1/4 cup chopped carrot 1 cup sliced fresh mushrooms salt and pepper to taste 1/4 cup all-purpose flour 1 tablespoon dried rosemary 2 cups uncooked white rice
Directions
Heat 1 tablespoon of olive oil in a medium saucepan over medium heat. Add garlic and saute for 5 minutes. Remove from heat and stir the garlic mixture into the red wine vinegar. Place the goose breasts into a shallow glass dish and cover with the vinegar mixture. Cover and refrigerate for at least 4 hours.
In a medium saucepan over medium heat, combine the milk, onion and carrot. Gradually bring to a boil, stirring frequently. Season with pepper to taste. As soon as the mixture comes to a boil, remove from heat, cover and set aside.
Preheat oven to 350 degrees F (175 degrees C). Place goose breasts and marinade into a baking dish and cover with foil.
Roast for 25 to 30 minutes in the preheated oven. Cook white rice according to package directions. Heat two tablespoons of oil in a small saucepan over medium-low heat. Add mushrooms and saute for 5 minutes. Whisk in the flour, stirring for 2 minutes, then gradually whisk in the milk mixture. Season with rosemary, salt and pepper. Bring to a boil, stirring constantly, then reduce heat to low and simmer for 3 minutes.
Make a bed of cooked white rice on a serving platter. Lay the goose breasts on top and pour the sauce over all.
January 12, 2011 at 1:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
Yev -- Please explain then how Canada geese almost went extinct in the middle of the last century? This, despite being a so-called "protected" species under the Migratory Bird Act Treaty?
January 12, 2011 at 1:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
ohhh great, a bunch of new yorkers tellin' us backwards midwesterners how to live. patty and marion need to go back to the city of concrete.
remember
P eople for
E njoying
T asty
A nimals
and the hsus is a scam!!!!
January 12, 2011 at 1:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
yev, i'm going to try that this weekend. thanks!
January 12, 2011 at 2:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
Scarlett -- I don't tell anyone else how to live, regardless of where they come from.
However, the wildlife hopefully belongs to ALL of us -- yes, even those of us living in the "concrete jungle."
We are asking only that people be willing to deal with some facts and actual truths about the geese as opposed to objectifying them at targets or prizes in some kind of macabre death "contest."
January 12, 2011 at 2:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yev_kassem (anonymous) says...
PattyA--
Couldn't tell you and I don't care. I know that to hunt them you have to have a permit. There is a 3 a day limit on them which in some cases is pretty high and they have a relatively long hunting season so it seems the population of the bird is fine today. I have no idea why their popluation was down 50 + years ago, I am talking about today.
January 12, 2011 at 2:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
Yev: I didn't request a recipe.
I asked that you answer the question on how Canada geese almost went extinct during the 1960's despite being a supposedly protected species under the Migratory Bird Act Treaty?
If you don't have an answer for that, then we will have to presume that these "permits" and "licenses" you mention don't amount to a hill of beans in terms of preventing extinction.
Rather, they just put blood money into someone's pocket.
Thank you.
January 12, 2011 at 2:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
patty since you live in new york, then take care of new york. and YOU ARE telling others how to live. and yes plants are living organisms, so you are murdering something everytime you eat!
look out steve has become elmer for today! ohhh those wascally wabbits lmao!
January 12, 2011 at 2:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
sorry steve : )
January 12, 2011 at 2:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
OK, Yev.
I will tell you how Canada geese almost went extinct in the 1960's:
Destruction of habitat and over hunting.
If you don't believe me, go look up the history.
You know about history, yes?
"Those who don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it."
Or, to quote Dr. Phil: "The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior."
The geese are in jeopardy despite what some claim. If they almost went extinct due to destruction of habitat and over hunting, what does it say when we add gassings, harassment and egg destruction to the mix?
You really don't need to be a psychic or brain surgeon to predict this one.
January 12, 2011 at 2:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Hey, how about inviting all the City Commissioners, County Commissioners, BOE, members and all other so called local leaders and Dick Cheney to the shoot and see what happens !!!
January 12, 2011 at 2:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
PattyA,
The same way the American Bison almost went extinct, OVER HUNTING !
January 12, 2011 at 2:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Oh my, the shooting joke may not have been so appropriate, in light of what has happened recently .
SORRY EVERYONE, I appologize !!!
January 12, 2011 at 2:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
omg. meth toooo funny
dick is from texas right? texan's grow up hunting, just ask me. been shootin' guns since i was knee hi to a grasshopper
January 12, 2011 at 2:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
meth, however the az shooting had nuttin' to do with hunting.
January 12, 2011 at 2:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
ohhh gawwwwdddd, now those yankees got me talkin' sothnnnnn.....
January 12, 2011 at 2:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
scarlett01_98
Aww, shuckins, Y' all thets, shonuff, gooder n possum gravy & grits !
Thank nuuthin o it !!
January 12, 2011 at 2:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
ok now that i've read meth's last posts. none of my post were not ment to harm another human. personally, guns aren't toys. they should never be pointed at anyone for other than personal protection. and like i said before, i've never used a hand gun. only long guns. only for hunting, nothing else.
January 12, 2011 at 2:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
meth,
ya'll take gooses anyday over possums....
gooses are tough an stringy an greasy
January 12, 2011 at 2:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
oh i wonder what bb is thinkin' right now.... i do miss him....and his views....
January 12, 2011 at 2:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yev_kassem (anonymous) says...
I realize not everything is 100% accurate on Wiki but here is an excerpt:
"In recent years, Canada Geese populations in some areas have grown substantially, so much so that many consider them pests."
January 12, 2011 at 3:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ToxicPink (anonymous) says...
I like how I just got jumped all over when I was pretty much agreeing with her that hunting as a game was inappropriate.
I now am ok with everyone trolling you.
Ya jerk.
January 12, 2011 at 3:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
AverageCitizen2 (anonymous) says...
Did you just call my grandmother mean? She loved her geese. I didn't. They were mean and they would attack you if you were walking by.
But she would hard boil and decorate geese eggs for us to hunt and eat at Easter. They were bigger and much easier to find.
January 12, 2011 at 3:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
toxic, i'm sorry if i jumped on you. that wasn't my intention.... or my intent.
January 12, 2011 at 3:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ToxicPink (anonymous) says...
No I was talking to PattyA.
I did call your Grandmother mean if she's a wild animal.
Is she a wild animal Average?
Are you part wolf? o.o
January 12, 2011 at 3:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
oh ok toxic. sometimes posts get tangled, so you just never know. wondering why patty hasn't responded? concrete getting to you?
January 12, 2011 at 3:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ToxicPink (anonymous) says...
Yeah and I'm totally out of habit of putting the name of the person I'm talking to in my posts, especially when the line of comments gets as long as this was did as fast. I was surprised the amount of people who dived into this conversation.
And to prove that, I didn't even see Patty had told Average that mean animals were owned by mean people. (Still don't think that applies to wild animals though).
(And I still want know if they're part wolf then!)
January 12, 2011 at 3:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
yep toxic, i thought i was done posting for a while. then patty chimed in. however patty, western oklahoma has a rattlesnake hunt every spring. she should protest the hunting of those poor poor snakes. btw, rattlesnake tastes like chicken. he he
this thread did grow in a hurry, dang yankees!
January 12, 2011 at 3:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
just remembering; last rattlesnake i killed was with a chainsaw. she kind of jumped out and surprised us. we cut into her nest, so she came after us. she got cut into little pieces. poor little snakey.
January 12, 2011 at 3:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
AverageCitizen2 (anonymous) says...
No...but I am part tumbleweed.
January 12, 2011 at 4:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
AverageCitizen2 (anonymous) says...
But...rattlesnakes mate for life and pine for their lost loved ones until they die of a broken heart!
January 12, 2011 at 4:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ToxicPink (anonymous) says...
Once when I was little...true story here people...My mom was tucking me in and all that and two flies kept bugging me. She squashed one on the wall and the other one kept buzzing around the spot where the other one was squished and I was heartbroken because I thought that she had killed the flies mate and the other fly was sad and trying to mourn.
As I got older, I realized that the fly probably just smelled dead.
Flies like dead stuff. -.-
Totally killed the romance of that.
I have no idea where I was going with that. Stuff about mating for life.
OH PENGUINS DO THAT!
January 12, 2011 at 4:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
AverageCitizen2 (anonymous) says...
lmao!
January 12, 2011 at 4:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
lol average, i'll bet the mate of the one i chopped up is still looking for her. still good eating. maybe not that one, but they are good
January 12, 2011 at 4:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
toxic toooo funny!!
January 12, 2011 at 4:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
The only part of goose / geese that I like is the liver. But it has to be a force fed goose.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foie_gras.
mmmm good on crispy toast.
January 12, 2011 at 4:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
steve yumm pate'
patty. any thoughts? run for cover? anything?
ohhh i'm not being polite......
January 12, 2011 at 4:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Chevy_Guy (anonymous) says...
Goose jerky is the best jerky around IMHO.
January 12, 2011 at 6:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
alfalfa (anonymous) says...
Too many geese on a wheat field will ruin it. Last time I looked, the area around here is a helluva lot better animal habitat than New York City.
I am glad there are still a few people who hunt geese, keeps them off the wheat, at least for a while.
January 12, 2011 at 10:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
Arguing or debating with someone who claims to know how an animals thinks? You're never going to get thru to them, they are too far over the edge to even consider facts.
January 13, 2011 at 1:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
LOL, neighbor, I wish I knew how animals think! However, I am curious and trying to learn.
And, I am not the only one.
Some scientists are seriously engaged in studying the emotional lives of animals in the animals' natural habitat. They study communictions, body language and attachments.
60 Minutes did a segment some weeks ago on a woman scientist studying elephants in Africa. She has demonstrated that elephants have family units, similar to humans. They communicate with sounds that the human ear cannot detect and they mourn their dead and even hold "funerals."
What this woman claimed can also be said about geese and many other animals.
We just haven't studied other animals closely enough to determine their emotional lives.
Perhaps such kmowledge would compel us to re-examine our murdering ways against them.
After all, we kill elephants too, for their tusks.
January 13, 2011 at 9:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
Average Citizen: You did not previously clarify how the geese were "mean" to you.
However, now you say that the geese attacked you when walking by and that your grandmother loved the geese.
Geese are very protective animals. They are protective of their mates and families. Geese have sometimes even been used by humans for purposes of protection.
If the geese were attached to your grandmother, then they might have perceived you as some sort of "threat" the same way many dogs perceive strangers as threats to their human owners.
What you therefore, might have experienced as "mean" behavior, more likely was that of protection towards your grandmother.
January 13, 2011 at 9:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
HenryVIII (anonymous) says...
PattyA,
What kind of food do you eat and how do you obtain it?
'enry
January 13, 2011 at 9:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
Yev: Did you read WHY geese have supposedly grown in population and are now accused of being "pests" in some areas?
It is truly a fascinatig story:
When the geese tottered on brink of extinction in the last century, "Wildlife Biologists" hatched a plan to bring the geese population back through captive breeding.
They captured some geese, clipped their wings and bred them.
Descendants of the captured and bred geese were released throughout the north east of the US so that hunters would be assurred a "healthy population" of geese to shoot at.
There were, however, two things the biologists did not figure upon:
#1 -- Geese born, raised and released in the states would have no instinct to "migrate" to the great north or the Arctic. The geese remained in the US and over generations have been tagged, "resident geese."
#2 -- Biologists were apparently unaware of the intelligence and adaptability of geese and their devotion and protection to mates and offspring. They are extremely resilient animals and they quickly figure out what is real threat and what is not. Canada geese have adapted to living close to humans and near urban environments. Apparently, the geese are able to figure out that living near a crowded "city" environment affords them protection from hunters and guns. (But, of course some people don't like the geese on lawns, in parks or on golf courses, giving the geese labels as "pests.")
Despite our efforts to keep goose populations in line with only what hunters want to shoot at in rural areas, the geese have been successful in populating beyond that "target" (in more ways than one) number and finding reasonably safe sanctuary in urban locations.
Reality is, that if we want the geese to leave urban areas, we should afford them some PEACE in the rural areas instead of turning them into gang-like shooting galleries.
Wouldn't we as humans prefer to live in a safe, "gated community" rather than an urban jungle where guns rule the days?
Why should we think the wiley and intelligent, devoted geese are any different?
Ha, ha, the jokes on us -- at least for the moment The geese, for now have outsmarted us.
Still, some of us are concerned that with the harassment programs, egg destruction, expanded hunting, destruction of habitat and "cullings" that even the resilient, magnificent geese could eventually go the way of the passenger pigeon who used to reside in this country in far greater numbers than Canada geese.
Few species of animals are able to escape forever such all-out tyranny against them.
January 13, 2011 at 9:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
HenryVIII: With all due respect, this subject thread is in response to an article about hunting Canada geese.
The article was not about diet or recipes.
Your question is thus, irrelevant.
Please stick to the subject at hand. I will be happy to respond.
January 13, 2011 at 10:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
HenryVIII (anonymous) says...
PattyA,
My question is entirely relevant. Your stance is that hunting and eating geese is wrong. I'd like to know what kind of food you find acceptable so I'm not doing anything else wrong. Since you have all the answers, I'd like to know what you eat so I may follow your example. So please, what should I eat and how should I obtain it without doing anything "wrong"? You have stated the problem, but no solution. If we can't hunt and eat geese, what should we eat and how should we obtain it?
All,
Why do humans have to eat to survive? Why do we have to breathe air to survive? Why can't we survive in extreme climates? It seems like the "creator" made us with a lot of substantial flaws. Maybe he should issue upgrades (or patches) like software creators do. I mean, was the "creator" not powerful enough to make us more resilient? Was making us so frail part of his "plan"? If so, does this "plan" include eating geese? How can we be sure? I think the "creator" needs to send out a memo or something... That'd clear this whole issue up. Maybe include a list of things we should and shouldn't eat. Please and thank you.
'enry
January 13, 2011 at 10:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
HenryVIII: I am not a bible expert. But I seem to recall God saying to Adam and Eve, something like: "I give you the nuts, seeds and fruit to eat. For you, they shall be for meat."
As you point out accurately, humans, like all animals, need to eat.
Whatever, we choose to eat creates some harm to something. When we wash our hands or breathe, we kill millions of bacteria.
The goal is not to say that we can live without harming anything. That is not reality.
Nor, did I say that ALL hunting is ALWAYS "wrong."
However, I do believe that killing animals for things like "sport," "prizes" or trophys is absolutely wrong. If you believe in God, then it is to make a mockery of and to disrespect His creations, whether they be Canada geese, deer, rabbits or quite frankly, any other creature.
But, you answer, "What if one eats their kills? Geese taste good!"
But, did one really have to kill that goose in order to survive?
Was one's life in jeopardy from starvation and lack of other food sources?
Personally, I do not eat geese -- or any other bird for that matter. I walk two miles a day and swim at least a mile a day in the summer. I have not had to take any medications or antibiotics since I was a child.
I do not believe my life has suffered in any respect since giving up all meat several decades ago. In fact, I have benefitted greatly. My weight (110 lbs) has not varied since giving up meat, despite no attempts at all to "watch calories."
Now, since admitting that I do not eat meat, please don't see that as opportunity to whine about "harm to vegetables, grain or insects."
As said, it is not possible to live without creating harm to something.
Our goals, one would reason, should be to do the least harm as possible to ourselves, our environment and yes, the animals with whom we share the planet.
A planet, that if you believe in God was given to us, along with all the animals on it for stewardship, respect and safe keeping.
January 13, 2011 at 11:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yev_kassem (anonymous) says...
PattyA--
Soby you trying to teach me/us a lesson on geese you seem to have contradicted yourself a bit.
At the beginning of the comments you were stating how the geese are not over populated and that in fact their populations are down considerably, now you state that the geese are actually populating above the target mark.
So which is it?
January 13, 2011 at 11:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yev_kassem (anonymous) says...
And everyone should ask themselves....
Have you hugged a tree today?
:-)
January 13, 2011 at 11:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
Yev: The term, "overpopulation" is subjective and open to interpretation and perception.
Yesterday, I quoted a very recent article written by an hunter who says the goose population is "woefully down from ten years ago." If you like and I can post that article link here, along with a recent study for Audubon which also claims goose numbers "down."
However, as we know, where there are large flocks of geese residing in a public park or golf course or walking on peoples' suburban lawns, or eating corn in the field, inevitably the charge comes up of "overpopulation" and "pests!"
I did propose a solution to that problem in terms of creating more safe areas for the geese in rural areas where they normally would choose to live as long as there is water nearby and they are not constantly being shot at.
If the geese were truly "overpopulated," however, there would be massive die-offs, starvation or disease taking out their numbers.
Or, they would simply breed less.
Animals and nature "managed" populations long before humans entered the scene.
One could argue quite efficiently, that in many ways, humans mess up animal populations and have directly caused many species to go extinct.
In fact, the near extinction of Canada geese and their resurgence beyond what many people now "accept" is great evidence to that.
January 13, 2011 at 11:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yev_kassem (anonymous) says...
PattyA--
You're right....nature did and still does manage populations of animals. It is called survival of the fittest and man is the fittest.
January 13, 2011 at 11:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
AverageCitizen2 (anonymous) says...
PattyA,
You should buy some land in a rural area and turn it into a wildlife habitat. That would be nice.
January 13, 2011 at 11:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
When a parent introduces hunting and fishing to their child, that child grows up with a great appreciation for nature that someone who has never had the experience can ever know.
Hunting and fishing license fees fund wildlife conservation programs that otherwise would not exist.
I loved to hunt as a child but ever since I started hunting humans it hasn't been the same. I shoot wildlife with a camera nowadays. I also find that I get more satisfaction from my nail gun then my firearms. Well, in peacetime anyway :-)
January 13, 2011 at 11:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
Yev. Arrogance, bullying, and brute force are not necessarily evidence to being the most "fit."
Some of the animals most in danger of extinction on our planet are those powerful predators who have the strength to kill many other animals.
Some speculate that in the event of some cataclysmic disaster, the animals most likely to survive, would be roaches, rats or tiny insects.
Didn't God say, "The meek shall inherit the earth?"
How does that exactly apply to hunters who shoot for kicks or "glory" in the sense of trophys or prizes?
January 13, 2011 at noon ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
One thing not discussed is possible effects of unusually cold winter on Canada geese and other waterfowl.
This article is from today and is written about hunting opportunities in Kansas with most of waters now being ice-covered.
http://www.kansascity.com/2011/01/12/...
January 13, 2011 at 12:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
An interesting little piece here from a radio DJ who writes about his experience of seeing a goose hit by a truck and flock members trying to come to aid of injured goose.
http://blogs.937mikefm.com/bigdaddy/2...
January 13, 2011 at 12:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yev_kassem (anonymous) says...
Intelligence is part of evolution and contributes to being "fit".
Humans have evolved and became superior through intelligence. We don't have to be the biggest cat or scariest predator because we can out smart them and geese...well, they aren't very smart.
January 13, 2011 at 12:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
"Hunting and fishing license fees fund wildlife conservation programs that otherwise would not exist."
How much has your organization contributed to wildlife conservation measures Patty?
Don't know for sure? Let me help you
ZERO
January 13, 2011 at 3:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
patty,
you are assigning human emotions to a goose. after losing a mate, the goose gets another mate.
like i said before, YOU are causing the death of some plant every time you eat. so just get over yourself. by the way i live close to a bird sanctuary, the geese are thick around here. no thinning of of herd around here. they are eating a lot of crops tho, so your cost of your bread will be going up. good luck with growing wheat in new york city. geeesssshhhh
January 13, 2011 at 4:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
sooo patty,
which group are you with? peta or hsus?
January 13, 2011 at 4:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
PattyA,
The primal brain of all humans directs our instinctive behavior. Hunting and gathering is one of those behaviors. Parents who teach their children to hunt, fish and camp bond with their child in ways that teaching a child to shop and trade cannot. Shopping and spending is not ingrained in the primal brain.
It's not just the part where you sit in the cold and wait for geese nor is it the part where you kill a goose. (That's quality time too) It's the planning, preparing and coordinating that leads up to the hunt where a parent and child get to bond and of course the reminiscing of past hunts is good too.
Hunters are conservationists who never want to see their preferred prey relegated to extinction. That would be stealing from our grandchildren.
January 13, 2011 at 4:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mslater (Matt Slater) says...
How dare you speak to me of wildlife conservation when you live in the largest city in the US? What gall you have to tell me how to live my life. Me shooting a goose has no impact whatsoever on your life, liberty, or pursuit of happiness, so just shut your bleeding heart liberal mouth and stay in your #^&*ing lane.
Matt
January 14, 2011 at 1:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
Ah, I see its been busy here since yesterday.
But, I don't mind a debate of five against one. Will answer in order of postings:
Yev: You argue that intelligence is the criteria of "fitness."
Ever hear the expression, "The line between genius and insanity is a thin one."?
Some of our most nortorious serial killers have been highly intelligent -- even brilliant.
The recognition of rights or "fitness" is not based upon intelligence. Dolphins, elephants, dogs and chimpanzees are hightly intelligent animals and yet we don't treat them much better than we do, other animals of lower intelligence.
Were we to carry the "IQ" attitude over to humans, then we would only grant rights or attribute "fitness" to highly intelligent people and probably "euthanize" those of lower IQs.
In nature, "survival of the fittest" applies to those animals highly adaptable to change and challenge and those capable of surviving and becoming stronger through generations.
Those attributes certainly apply to Canada geese who have prevailed despite human attempt to hunt, cull, gas, harass, destroy habitat and even destroy eggs.
One would think, based upon your criteria, Yev, you would have a little more respect for the regal, wiley and yes, intelligent, Canada goose.
January 14, 2011 at 8:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mslater (Matt Slater) says...
then we would only grant rights or attribute "fitness" to highly intelligent people and probably "euthanize" those of lower IQs.
If this system were in effect, you'd probably be pretty screwed.
Matt
January 14, 2011 at 8:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
Neighbor: Why do you presume that I am part of an "organization?"
In fact, I am not.
As for those hunting and license fees paying for Conservation programs, that is mainly to perpetuate those species favorable as "hunting targets" often at the expense of others.
That was, in fact, the main reason for bringing back Canada geese after they tottered on the brink of extinction. Hunters like to shoot them.
The geese however, have learned to "adapt" by seeking out areas to live where hunting is either very limited or not allowed.
January 14, 2011 at 8:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
Scarlett: I am more than happy to pay more for bread and wheat if it means granting some peace to the geese. ;)
January 14, 2011 at 8:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
REWBA: I am all for parents spending meaningful time with their kids and bonding -- and I don't mean through "shopping and spending."
Teaching and showing children respect, empthy for others and connection to the world they live in are, I believe, among the best things we can do for our kids.
When my daughter was little, we spent a great deal of time outdoors. She learned to swim by age 4, she was an accomplished photographer by age 10.
Today, she is a professional, happily married and going for her Master's Degree.
We can bond with our children and spend meaningful time outdoors with them without putting a gun in their hands.
January 14, 2011 at 8:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
Mslater: You seem quite hostile and accusatory in your comments.
Since you are a self-describe hunter, one would have to conclude that hunting does not appear to be compatible with feelings of peace, connection or contentment.
January 14, 2011 at 8:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
This is great !
PattyA,
"hunting does not appear to be compatible with feelings of peace, connection or contentment. "
I would say the difference in locations between you and Mslater may have something to do with that. right now , what Matt is hunting , shoots back. i kind of understand why Matt may seem a tad bit hostile.
January 14, 2011 at 8:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
PattyA,
You could not be more wrong about hunters conserving wildlife simply for the hunting. I enjoy the outdoors, when I hunt or fish, even if I go away empty handed I am thankful for the opportunity to enjoy nature. Humans are predators, predators in nature hunt and kill, simple as that. Live your life however you want, I won't push my beliefs on you if I am shown the same courtesy.
January 14, 2011 at 8:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
I have enjoyed this rolling trolling argument between PattyA and others. I don't agree with pat's arguments, but don't begrudge her cause, we all have causes. Maybe if pat and others indignation with killing extended to humans we wouldn't be involved in 2 undeclared wars and mslater would be back here going to school and working at WolfCreek power plant, instead of enjoying the weather in Afghanistan.
January 14, 2011 at 8:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
Goodoleboy: Question for you:
Can one only enjoy the outdoors with a gun, arrow or rod in hand?
Personally, I love the outdoors. Even in this sub-freezing weather, I am out everyday with my dogs and my camera for at least two hours a day.
I love shooting pictures of nature and yes, Canada geese (when lucky enough to find them). They are rather elusive and indepedent creatures.
I think in some ways, hunting and photography are similar. One has to plan, wait and often experiment with different locations, times and positions to get a great photograph. Photography buffs, share photos, rewards and accolades on sites like Flickr.
I am just having a hard time understanding why love of nature and outdoors has to involve shooting and destroying life. I say that with no intention of disrespect, but rather curiousity and bewilderment.
January 14, 2011 at 9:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
Steve Corbin: Please don't assign to me responsibility for the two wars we are engaged in.
I have never been a "war hawk" and don't vote that way. I will break open a bottle of champagne, the day we finally get out of Afganistan and Iraq. These wars bleed billions of dollars, run up the national debt and result in hundreds of thousands of human deaths and casualties. They run up costs for health care in treating life altering injuries and even mental trauma (PTSDs).
While I fully understand to the need to combat terrorism and threats to our nation, I hope future generations can find more peaceful and less costly means to do so.
January 14, 2011 at 9:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
AverageCitizen2 (anonymous) says...
“Well, you see, Norm, it’s like this…A herd of buffalo can only move as fast as the slowest buffalo. And when the herd is hunted, it is the slowest and weakest ones at the back that are killed first. This natural selection is good for the herd as a whole, because the general speed and health of the whole group keeps improving by the regular killing of the weakest members. In much the same way, the human brain can only operate as fast as the slowest brain cells. Now, as we know, excessive intake of alcohol kills brain cells. But naturally, it attacks the slowest and weakest brain cells first. In this way, regular consumption of beer eliminates the weaker brain cells, making the brain a faster and more efficient machine. And that, Norm, is why you always feel smarter after a few beers.”
-Cliff Clavin
January 14, 2011 at 9:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mslater (Matt Slater) says...
I've got $5 that says Patty is all for abortion.
Save the geese, kill the babies. Sound about right?
Matt
January 14, 2011 at 9:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
I was kinda wondering the same thing Matt
January 14, 2011 at 9:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
Average Citizen: Very funny. ;) "Cheers" used to be one of my favorite shows. Many good little wisdoms came out of it.
Question to all of you with regard to the scenario this sharing alludes to:
In nature, predators usually take out the slowest and weakest of the herds, thereby resulting eventually in the herd becoming stronger.
But, many times in hunting, the goal is to shoot the biggest and strongest animal, such as the "reward" offered in the promoted shoot for this Saturday ("The biggest goose.")
So, how exactly are hunters HELPING animals by taking out the biggest and presumably healthiest animals? Is that not contrary to the laws of nature?
January 14, 2011 at 9:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
AverageCitizen2 (anonymous) says...
My Dad will often times fill his deer license with a buck that has a misshapen rack so that he can get it out of the gene pool.
January 14, 2011 at 10:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
Average Citizen: I am obviously not a fan of hunting.
However, I never said that all hunting is evil or wrong.
I read many articles on hunting, but responded to this one particularly because of its reporting of "rewarding" prizes to the biggest goose shot. That is contrary to the laws of nature, as well as, in my view, human ethics.
The world should be made better by our presence on it, not worse.
I don't have a problem with someone taking out a sick, weak or injured animal in order to benefit the whole.
I DO have a problem with people killing animals for kicks, "prizes," ego or even "food" that is not needed and has potential to do harm to human health over time.
Most of the major disease killers in this country, such as heart disease, cancer, diabetes and obesity are a direct result of a diet too high in fats and meat.
Most doctors now recommend a diet higher in vegetables, fruits, nuts and whole grains and lower in meat. -- Kind of what God supposedly told to Adam and Eve. ;)
January 14, 2011 at 11:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
HenryVIII (anonymous) says...
PattyA,
Bringing home the biggest or best is part of human nature. You see, if I return back to my tribe with the biggest kill, I will impress the females and they'll see that I'm a good provider. Showing how superior I am to the other males will attract more favorable mates. This will lead to me mating with a strong female and passing our favorable traits on to future generations. This is why you see competition for mates in the wild through elaborate demonstrations, fights, decoration, and skill. Animals compete to be the "best" all the time and they are rewarded by being the "alpha" male and/or scoring the best mates.
We compete to score the biggest goose so that our potential mates will recognize our skill. A favorable mate is the real prize at stake here. You see? It's all part of nature! Competition is how partially how we recognize who is the best potential mate. This, too, is natural selection.
'enry
January 14, 2011 at 11:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
EsqEB (anonymous) says...
Patty,
You will be glad to know that goose and duck meat is low in fat, and some of the healthiest wildgame you can eat, along with venison.
You see Patty, you get to take what you believe is the high road in this situation, because you know we like to hunt and you can condemn such with all your false statements, accusations, and assumptions. You are shielded by your anonymity. For all we know you are an overweight, smoking, drinking, child molesting, welfare recieving, high school dropout who farts and blames it on other people. These are the assumptions I get to make about you, and quite frankly, Patty, I think you should be ashamed of yourself.
In of your many ramblings, you said one of the reasons geese have made a comeback is because of restoration of habitat. That is a true statement. You do realize that was because of groups like Ducks Unlimited(the sponsor of this shoot) raised the funds and restored the habitat. It wasn't PETA, or the government, or you. It was hunters and sportsmen that saved the waterfowl numbers from declining into extinction. Our goals as hunters is not to erradicate the species, but to be hunters and pass such a lagacy on to our children and others. I know it is a concept you obviously have problems grasping, and I understand. A lot of ignorant people have problems seeing things from multiple angles.
Before you respond, please state the city and state where you live, your hobbies, what car you drive, your education level, your profession, height/weight, BMI, ancestry, marital status, eating habits, criminal and driving history, and anything else you would like to share with us, so we can riducule you and shame you.
January 14, 2011 at 12:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
Sick, weak and injured animals are not exactly good food.
January 14, 2011 at 12:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
HenryVIII: LOL.
Any man who brings home a dead goose to me whether big or small, gets a frying pan on his head.
Most women these days look for money in the pocket and brains in the head of a man -- not heads on a wall. ;)
January 14, 2011 at 12:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
EsqEB: Not sure where all this acrimony and anger is coming from. I thought some of us were having a fairly civil discussion.
I don't "assume" anything about the other posters here other than the fact they like to hunt which they attest to with some pride. Nor, am I interested in what car they drive, how far they went in school or their marital status. This isn't "Match.com."
It would be more to your credit not to assume things about me other than the fact I respect and appreciate animals and care about protecting and defending them.
This subject thread is about hunting geese - specifically for prizes. We should stick to the subject matter.
As for your contention about Ducks Unlimited bringing back the geese, don't forget that it was hunting and destruction of habitat that brought geese to the brink of extinction to begin with.
"The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior."
January 14, 2011 at 12:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
patty,
i do agree with esq.
patty, i'm guessing you are everything esq says you are.
patty when you talk down to matt, or demean him you will draw the hot anger of everyone. we are not having a civil conservation with you, do not delude yourself. just take your nasty self back inside your apt and keep you ideas to yourself! btw matt and MY son are in afg, fighting for your right to be a b****.
sorry steve : ( i had to get it out.
January 14, 2011 at 2:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
patty i am the one who wants to know which group you line up with not neighbor.
you sound like hsus to me.
January 14, 2011 at 2:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
apierich (anonymous) says...
I want to preface this with saying I am not posting to attack anyone, but to just put my own understanding of the issues in this discussion. I do not agree with hunting purely for sport or prizes or trophies.
Ah, but Patty, if you read it is not the head on the wall that is the prize in these competitions, it is the cash in the pocket that you spoke of. Also, I am sure in larger cities it is all about the money and things that a man can aquire that are important to women, but out here in more rural areas there is still an aspect of hunting and gathering that is attractive, assuring, and comforting in a mate. I know several families, and am sure there are hundreds if not thousands more, who are poverty stricken or just dirt farmers who still to this day hunt for subsistance. My family did not hunt for subsistance, but we did "farm" a half acre after my father was disabled and had to care for five children and a wife off of SSI. Some of those more skilled hunters in poverty would put what little cash they have down for a competition to not only have the meat but also the money to pay for the things you can't hunt and gather for that are deemed necessary in this modern society such as running water, safe shelter, electricity, clothing, etc.
I am sorry that you have a hard time finding Canadian Geese to photograph where you live, but right now I, living just outside of Emporia, can walk out my back door, down the street, and get within a foot or two of a whole flock of around 50 geese to take pictures or just sit and look at without any harsh scared or protective reaction from either side, perhaps them just walking a few steps away from me.
Also, when you speak of the hunter who was saying that Canadian Goose population is down from 10 years ago, where was he and has he been hunting. Regional differences make a huge difference when it comes to numbers of animals. The geese that migrate in the mid-west are not the geese that migrate on the east or west coasts. Migratory paterns of geese groups should be a part of your research before putting a blanket statment over the whole of our country.
January 14, 2011 at 3:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
apierich (anonymous) says...
I lived for some time in Virginia on a military base where our housing was right across the street from a wild life refuge. We could tell by how many Canadian geese were still around in the fall how bad the winter was going to be. It was amazing to watch them and their families in the swamp (the wild life refuge) and even for one day to see a group of geese take off, one of them with a large orange thing on it's back, then watch that large orange thing fall from about 30ft. A few days later our large cat who we had taken in as a stray when it was a kitten, came limping back to our yard. That poor cat had no idea how to hunt but knew it wanted to eat that goose and dismally failed. That goose family, who you could recognize by the color of the bands that were put on for migratory studies of different family groups of Canadian geese, still continued to come back and stay right behind our house in the swamp, that can never again tried to hunt one but instead laid and watched them for years to come, seeming to have a new respect for them as bigger, stronger, and smarter. Take from that story what you will, it was just something I was reminded of from this whole discussion.
January 14, 2011 at 3:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
apierich (anonymous) says...
Also, FYI, recent studies by independant groups who have no stake in the "to meat, or not to meat" issues have shown that not only does depriving yourself and others of the proper amount of meat cause children's brains not to develop properly because of the need of animal fats to build it all, but can cause problems with retention of lesser used knowledge and may even cause problems with some memory linked diseases such as alzheimer's because the fats and protiens in plants are not broken down and used by the body in the same way as animal fats and protiens. The facts aren't in yet as to how or what all of the effects are from a meatless diet are on the brain or that it makes people "stupid" without their control, but it is making the FDA and other nutrition organizations look at how much may actually be the "proper" amount of meat for a person, with preliminary results coming back at I believe something like 3-6oz a week for proper brain health, at least in developing and healing brains.
Personally, my body is not able to break down and use the iron in plants as well as in red meat and even if I were to switch to white meat only I become extremely anemic in a matter of days. And if you think that taking iron supplements is the answer for that, you should research where the iron from your particular supplement comes from because it often contains bone meal or some other animal byproduct to give you the iron level.
Personally, my body makes an enzyme to break down animal protien, which is different from the enzyme to break down plant protien, and until the day it stops doing so I will not stop eating meat. I do have a friend whose body has never produced that enzyme so she just hasn't ever wanted to eat meat and when her parents saw that it didn't break down right in her system they stopped pushing any meat (including fish because fish is an animal and therefore meat) at her and so she is a vegitarian by necessity just as I am a red meat eater (3oz a day max) by necessity for health.
January 14, 2011 at 3:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
thank you apierich,
good comments. i have calmed down now.
hi steve! how are streets today?
January 14, 2011 at 3:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
Apierich: First, thank you for your balanced and interesting contributions to this discussion.
Please understand I am not here "telling others how to live." However, it is a free country and open dialogues are not only encouraged, but necessary.
I read hunting articles and sometimes engage in discussions with hunters, not because I am a fan of the activity, but because I seek to understand the rationale for going out and destroying animals who jealously guard their lives (and in the case of Canada geese, their families) as much as we do ours.
So far, with the exception of your posts, there was little to explain this activity. Even the stuff about "bonding with kids" did not suitably address the question because it raises the question of why one would want to put a gun in the hands of a vulnerable and easily influenced child? -- Especially in these days of food being readily available (even "meat") and the problems we have encountered in recent years regarding school (and other public venue) shootings and mass murders, usually at the hands of young people.
Guns produced today have the power not only to kill many animals from great distances, but dozens of humans within a matter of minutes.
Some people on this site have mocked and insulted city dwellers like me. But, fact is, we have had no mass shootings in our schools, shopping malls, work places or supermarkets -- even in the a city of nine million people.
I believe we seriously need to look at our country's "love of guns" and the easy availability of high powered weapons even to kids as young as 12.
This so-called, "Goose hunt" is today.
I am hopeful some of the discussion here and the contribution of your story about the family of geese who lived behind your home, might give some pause for thought.
Canada geese are under great assault these days -- all over the country.
I am in fact ashamed to say that my city has rounded up and gassed thousands of Canada geese over the past several years under the guise of so-called "airline safety."
These are extraordinary animals when one gets the opportunity to study and observe them. Canada geese would in fact put many humans to shame with their devotion and protection to their mates, young and flockmates.
My goal is simply to try and get others to see the geese in a open, honest, different and hopefully more peaceful and respectful light.
If I have failed in that hope and even more geese get shot today then would have had I not tried to defend them, then that is to my shame and detriment.
By the way, the correct term for the geese is "Canada," not "Canadian" geese." I made this mistake for a long time too, until learning the geese were named after a man with the surname, "Canada." The name has nothing to do with the country.
Again, thanks for a balanced and respectful contribution to the dialogue here, though I would dispute some of your statements about vegetarianism.
January 15, 2011 at 11:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
This is a link to the article which reports Canada goose numbers being "woefully down from what they were ten years ago." That seems to referance national figures: http://www.courierpress.com/news/2011...
January 15, 2011 at 11:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
EVERYBODY HAS GONE HUNTING !
January 15, 2011 at 11:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
The entry fee was $75 per person. For that kind of money you could buy a baby seal or a bottle nose dolphin. Yummy!
January 15, 2011 at 11:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
lol steve!
patty,
YOU DON'T LIVE HERE. the problem is, you started this entire tirade by attacking brandy. if you had just SHUT UP, this thread would have never gone down this road. YOU caused all this venom. as for the area military men, you better thank god for them. they are defending your right to be a snobby self righteous bi***. exercise some control and butt out.
sorry steve.
looking up at bb, sorry bb.
January 15, 2011 at 11:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
rewba, any recipies for bottle nose dolphin?
January 15, 2011 at 11:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
Gut it, skin it, slice it up and eat it raw. I like the eyeballs.
January 15, 2011 at 12:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
Steve Corbin: Hunting is actually down across the country.
It seems that after thousands of years, some humans have finally left the caves -- but, obviously, not all.
January 15, 2011 at 12:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
rewba, i haven't eaten eyeballs, disected (sp) a few in a&p in college. lead a 3rd grade science class about eyeballs. the kids loved it. the teacher threw up. something about sticking a knife in a cow eye. i talked ibp into giving me a few for the demo.
my son has eaten eyes. he went to china for the special olympics. he said they were good.
i see patty hasn't given up her tirade. she hasn't learned yet. maybe she should get with sarah palin. dang yankees
January 15, 2011 at 1:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
correction, erik went to china to watch the olympics. he was stationed in korea and took leave to see the country and the olympics.
January 15, 2011 at 1:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
When was the last time PattyA left a few thousand dollars of grain in her fields for geese, deer, ducks, pheasant, quail, and other wildlife to eat during the winter?
Where is the compassion for the earthworms that geese eat? At least geese are smart enough to eat a defenseless worm without giving a $#!+.
January 15, 2011 at 1:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
lol my thought, rewba.
i'll just bet she wears leather shoes, and wears cotton or wool clothes. that would make her a hypocrite. but she lives in nyc so that makes her superior to us.
no fields in nyc, just concrete.
uh oh i hear hunters! : )
January 15, 2011 at 1:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
off topic, i just love running an electrical current thru my arm..... it hurts so gooddddd. sarcasam intended
January 15, 2011 at 2:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
just wondering, did patty call american airlines and complain that her beloved feathered friends were killed by that horrible jet a few days ago. in nyc no less! hmmm, bet she didn't.
patty probably protested the miracle on the hudson, her "buddies" died on that day. never mind the pilot saved everyone on board. her buddies died! what a biased human she is...
January 15, 2011 at 4:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
apierich (anonymous) says...
Patty, if you actually check it out, very few school shootings occur in truly rural areas where people hunt regularly. In fact, I don't know anyone who uses semi-automatic weapons, often used in such shootings, to hunt anything in the mid west. Also, I did live in a large city before Columbine happened and there were weekly shootings and stabbings and a lot more violence than I have ever seen in any school out here. As far as I can remember, with the exception of one, none of these "mass shootings" at schools occur with people whose parents brought them hunting. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Look it all up, there are more violent crimes that end in death and injury in the big cities where kids are not taught gun safety or respect for any weapon than in rural communities. School shootings have been going on for decades, they were only brought to the forefront of the public when it happened in a predominantly white, middle class area. I grew up in cities where school stabbings and shootings were just a blurb in the news that didn't get much attention outside of the area, if any at all. This is not a racially based push, I am white myself, but growing up I felt no less compassion for those kids who were killed in the cities, at school or home, by drive bys as innocent bystanders or intentionally targets, than I have ever since when I hear of another attack at school or in public. If you think that shootings that happen outside of school grounds and time are done exclusively by legal adults, you are sadly mistaken as many of them are teens as well as people in their twenties and thirties. In fact more violent crimes that happen in cities are done by kids with little to no adult supervision, and those other school shootings, well, just listen to their parents interviews afterwards. The kids from Columbine had parents who hadn't been in their rooms for years and when they walked in they found weapons that they would have never imagined in their house. If kids learning about the proper use and safety of guns is your problem, perhaps you should rethink that and look more at how parent involvement is the weak link in these cases.
I have no guns in my house because my husband doesn't regularly hunt so his rifles are stored at my parents, but I do have a gun rack full of swords on my living room wall and another sword rack on top of my tv stand, my kids are just as likely to hurt themselves and others with those, but they won't even touch them. Why? Because my husband and I have taken the initiative to teach them from the minute they realize they are there that they are not for play and have even started training our oldest in sword fighting, with a wooden practice sword of course until he is old enough to have the physical and impulse control to care for one safely.
January 15, 2011 at 6:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
apierich,
thank you thank you thank you!!!!!!
January 15, 2011 at 6:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
"Please understand I am not here "telling others how to live."
Then why are you here? You're telling us not to hunt and shoot geese. I understand the need for hunting, you obviously never will. If you don't like to hunt, don't do it. Simple American principle of choice applies.
You engage in discussions with hunters to stir up hate and discontent, you enjoy doing so. You have no desire to learn anything about the activity. No matter what is said, you will never change your mind about hunting. All you know and embrace is what you have been taught by other ARO fanatics. "I seek to understand the rationale for going out and destroying animals who jealously guard their lives" says it all. You have your opinion of hunters, just like I have my opinion of sheeple like yourself living amongst the other 9 million in your herd.
"Why one would want to put a gun in the hands of a vulnerable and easily influenced child? -- Especially in these days of food being readily available (even "meat") and the problems we have encountered in recent years regarding school (and other public venue) shootings and mass murders, usually at the hands of young people."
My answer to the initial question would be; To teach them how to provide for themselves rather than to become dependent on others for food supplies, being told they must buy everything, only have what someone else sells to them at a store for $$$. People like yourself are going to be awfully hungry when the government and stores quit providing food for you. All of the fish and game I harvest is eaten or stored in freezers for another day. I prefer to eat fish and game I personally catch, shoot, clean, butcher etc and do so to reduce my grocery bills each month. If this bothers you, frankly I could care less. I did not ask you for your opinion, nor do I value it. I hunt and fish ethically, legally, and without reservation.
January 15, 2011 at 10:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
"Guns produced today have the power not only to kill many animals from great distances, but dozens of humans within a matter of minutes."
Guns have always been able to do that. Guns are no more harmful sitting on your lap than the keyboard of the computer you type on. Neither will harm a soul or do a thing until a human comes in contact with them. Guns are not harmful, nor kill anyone, nut job humans with mental issues do.
There is more crime in your city of 9 million in one week than we see in nine years. We don't have mass school shootings here, nor in our malls, work places or supermarkets. The last two major murders we had here involved churches and ministers. One killer was a foreigner here on a student visa, the other was a minister of a church and his mistress(Google- Murder Ordained). Your comparison and implication that hunters and rural people are the reason for crime does not fly. We mock city dwellers because you folks are easy to find fault in, you're pretty pathetic really.
happens here? How funny."I believe we seriously need to look at our country's "love of guns" and the easy availability of high powered weapons even to kids as young as 12."
You should read up on gun laws, 12 yr olds can't buy guns legally. Lawful gun owners have followed your desired gun laws, and paid a heavy prices due to the gun laws making guns and ammo more expensive. Crime continues to increase and criminals continue to ignore the laws. See the connection yet? If you can't, you're too stupid to waste any time explaining it to you.
This goose hunt was today. I hope no criminals drove by and hunted illegally, risking the lives of those who were hunting the legal safe way.
"I am in fact ashamed to say that my city has rounded up and gassed thousands of Canada geese over the past several years under the guise of so-called "airline safety."
Sounds like your city values your opinion as much as we do. You can't influence to the actions of your own governmental juridiction, yet you want us to care what you think of what
January 15, 2011 at 10:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
Cut and paste due to length didn't work out well. ( happens here? How funny ) belongs at the end of my last paragraph.
January 15, 2011 at 10:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
emporian (anonymous) says...
There are more geese now than there were at any time in the recent past. The explosion of resident birds has done that. Heck resident geese took down an airliner in NYC of all places. Ducks Unlimited has saved thousands of acres of prairie from falling to the plow. The NWTF has been the spearhead for one of the most successful stories in wildlife management, bringing the wild turkey back from a rare sight to an everyday occurrence. Headed out tomorrow to hunt geese. I am hungry for some goose jerky, sandwiches, and the bacon wrapped goose with jalepeno and cream cheese. I am getting hungry just thinking about it. I wish the NYC folks would stay the heck out of our business. News Flash food isn't grown in super markets.
January 15, 2011 at 10:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
PattyA, Every year, thousands of people living in the cement jungles of the metropolitan world pack up their gun cases, get on a plane and fly to Kansas City International Airport where they are met by outfitters who transport these wealthy hunters to the beautiful Flint Hills of Kansas. Once here, the hunters are guided to a spot where the city slicker dressed in fancy boots pulls out his/her fancy rifle and squeezes the trigger on a deer, pheasant, quail, duck and or goose. After that the wealthy hunters go back to their cement jungle with a head to decorate their fancy office on the 99th floor of a glass building.
Since we don't have lots of hotel rooms out here on the prairie, nature lovers and photographers from the big apple could easily corner that market by taking up all the hotel rooms and hiring all the guides during hunting season. I'm sure you could make a difference in the lives of animals and humans.
Today as the sun was sitting I noticed a local rancher putting feed down in a field that didn't have cattle on it. He was doing it for the wildlife who are having it hard in this snow and cold weather. The sun was casting light, the hills created shadow and there was nothing but nature as far as the eye can see. It would have made a great picture.
January 15, 2011 at 11:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mslater (Matt Slater) says...
More Americans were killed in NYC last year than in Iraq and Afghanistan combined. Fix your house before you come knocking on our door.
Here's a fun video for ya, too ;-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBfHZ3...
Matt
January 15, 2011 at 11:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Loved your beautiful post about the farmer feeding wildlife amid sunlight and shadows, REWBA. The Buddhists have a word for it -- ZEN.
January 16, 2011 at 8:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
REWBA: That scene you paint of the farmer putting out food for the wildlife in winter is a very touching and enchanting one. I bet it would have made a lovely photograph. We need more of that in this world.
Don't think for a moment that I believe the people in NYC are any more humane or "superior" than those anywhere else. I am very aware we have the city slicker hunters you describe and they represent the very lowest rung of the hunting ladder.
I like very much your idea about photographers and nature lovers taking up the hotel rooms in your neck of the woods over wealthy, city slickers hunters.
Has your community considered promoting this part of the country as a spot favorable for nature lovers and photographers as Utah promotes itself as a haven for skiiers and sight seers?
Many times, it is the way a community presents and promotes itself that determines what and who it attracts.
Unfortunately, Kansas is usually perceived as a "flyover" farm state. One doesn't normally associate it with wildlife images and nature. Perhaps an image makeover might help bring a different type of wealth and tourist visitor to the state.
Though i have lived in NYC many years, I don't regard the city as my favorite place in the country. In fact, the happiest times of my life were the six months lived in Austin, Texas when I was a child.
I have never been in Kansas, but who knows? Were I to think of it as a place favorable to seeing, learning about and living with nature, it would be a great deal more appealinng than the image that has been presented on this comment site.
January 16, 2011 at 10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
Neighbor: Unfortunately, neither our Mayor (Bloomberg) nor the USDA respected the opinions of New Yorkers when sending henchmen into some of our city parks in the wee hours of the morning to round up and gas geese. This was done on the sly without the knowledge of most city residents.
When park goers questioned the sudden disappearance of almost 400 geese and goslings this past summer at Prospect Park, they were initially lied to and told the flightless geese had "flown away to Jamaica Estates in Brooklyn."
Persistence however, resulted in a NY Times reporter investigating the disappearance and finding out that the geese were in fact, rounded up and gassed.
Since then, the story went "national" and NYC has been disgraced.
But, no, we New Yorkers are not taking it quietly.
There have been organized protests and pressure on the city to adopt measures of humane alteranatives to "control" goose populations.
The battle is by no means over. But, to this point, we have won some victories.
For one matter, gassings will no longer occur at Prospect Park and we are working towards humane policies in other parks.
Please keep this story in mind, should Bloomberg attempt to buy the Presidency.
January 16, 2011 at 10:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
PattyA,
The people out here on the plains are a lot friendlier than what is represented on this forum. We are nature lovers too. That's why most of us live here and wouldn't trade it for a penthouse apartment off central park. Don't make that offer to my wife though. She's a city slicker. lol
Speaking of flyover people, here is a local writer/photographer/nature lover's website.
http://www.flyoverpeople.net/
I sure hope Cheryl doesn't mind me plugging her site.
January 16, 2011 at 10:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
I really enjoy Cheryl's writings. Here are two of my favorite:
http://www.flyoverpeople.net/obak.htm
http://www.flyoverpeople.net/DramaQue...
January 16, 2011 at 10:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
PattyA:
What we have here in Kansas would be under appreciated by New Yorkers or any city person. In fact, a number of years ago, while filming was occurring locally for a movie, the cast members were scouring local farms looking for "antique" leather harness and other such things while not paying a bit of attention to what they were stepping on, or hopefully in. In short, they made pests of themselves. They also misbehaved quite badly at a local watering hole. Why would we want those kind of disrespectful people hanging around?
January 16, 2011 at 10:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
apierich (anonymous) says...
Patty, there are actually a lot of things that propmote Kansas for nature lovers. Unfortunately, we have a balanced budget amendment in our state constitution and if the choice comes between taking care of the problems and people who are already here or promoting ourselves to get others to come and pump their money into our economy, which is a gamble for anywhere, we take care of our own. Right now we are trying to take care of a $500,000,000 deficite that we just can't have, and don't want so that we don't go the way of California, so if tourism advertisement has to be cut, so be it.
It is left to the local or regional tourist associations and donations to pay for all of that advertising. If you look up stats on states you will see that while Kansas has the lowest cost of living it also has the lowest wages in the country, and while the poverty of this state is not shown in the unemployment statistics thanks to former President Clinton changing the way it is computed so that it only is the number of people collecting unemployment checks, it is very real. There are still groups that offer farm tours throughout the spring, summer, and fall as well as the national and state park associations web sites giving plenty of information on their sites, tours, and programs that they hold year round. Most of these sites and tours are run by volunteers with a bare skeleton crew of paid rangers because of the unsure state of tourism overall let alone in these hard economic times. We can't afford million dollar commercials and full page advertisements, and taxation to allow for these is not something any of us are willing to pay for.
Also, the sight of the farmer putting down the feed on a field is not uncommon in Kansas. We promote CRP as well which is wild grown native grassland for wild life to prosper as well as part of crop rotation to replenish the land.
Kansas, as big as you think. This year is Kansas's 150th anniversary, check out the website to see what's going on: http://www.travelks.com/
January 16, 2011 at 10:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
Neighbor: I think it a good thing for people to know how to provide for themselves were some disaster to leave our stores and supermarkets empty.
General knowledge of farming particularly and/or even how to use a gun or fishing rod when necessary are probably good things for most people to know.
However, guns have been implicated in many thousands of "accidental" human deaths, suicides and impulsive, unplanned manslaughters (people using guns to solve a dispute). Then, there is always the danger of guns falling into seriously disturbed hands who then use them for mass murder.
Its really hard to be killed by one's computer.
The statement, "Guns don't kill people, people do" is true. But, with millions of guns in the hands of many millions of people, who is to say that your next trip to the grocery store, church, work place or school won't be your last?
Were guns to vanish or be outlawed, it would of course not stop all murders.
One can kill others with knives, swords or blunt instruments. But, it would be really difficult to kill dozens of people within minutes with weapons like these.
Those who use guns to "put meat on the table" so to speak, may be models of self proficiency and independence.
But, lets remember that not all hunters are "expert marksmen." How many animals escape immediate death and escape with injuries -- only to die a horrible death later?
And why do we need to kill more animals when we already slaughter more than 6 million a DAY?
Right now, the supermarkets and restaurants are not empty and in fact, discard thousands of tons of edible food every day.
For those animals fortunate enough not to be raised on a "factory farm" for human consumption, but having to face the rigors of winter and nature, I just don't see why we have to add to their woes.
Why can't we leave anything in peace when it is not necessary for us to kill?
January 16, 2011 at 10:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
Apierich: I understand that in these harsh economic times, there is not the budget for tourist promotion. I simply put that out there as an idea for the future. I am sure Kansas is a lovely and beautiful state and could benefit significantly from being able to promote its finer and lesser known attributes.
I mentioned Utah, because Utah runs commercials on NYC TV promoting its Park City as a haven for skiiers. They have been doing this for a few years, so it must be reaping rich rewards.
Here in NY (and presumably, other cities) the latest craze for fitness has exploded. Many thousands of young people flocking to parks for running and cycling. People like this might be attracted to locations that offer things like hiking, cycling trails or nature walks and runs.
Most have money, so this might be something to consider for the future of Kansas?
The trend for fitness and "getting back to nature" is in fact, a national craze and won't be going away anytime soon.
Think of ways Kansas could benefit from that. It could do your state a lot of good in the long run.
January 16, 2011 at 11:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
Patty,
you just don't get it..... SHUT UP. those of us who live here, we know how to garden, fish, and shoot. food is not grown in stores. you know how to shop and spend. that's it!
i'm guessing s/he did protest the miracle on the hudson. killed her poor buddies.
btw, my husband works for usda. killing birds in parks is not their job. so get your facts straight! stupid bi***.
just an idea, if we quit reading the snobs posts, maybe s/he will go away...
January 16, 2011 at 11:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
But, lets remember that not all hunters are "expert marksmen." How many animals escape immediate death and escape with injuries -- only to die a horrible death later?
How true. Just last winter I found a wild mallard duck being chased by a dog. When I rescued it, I found that it's wing had been injured by a pellet from a shotgun blast. I performed surgery to remove the shot and closed the injury. That little duck lived in a box filled with straw out in my garage for about five weeks as it healed up. We quickly became buddies. When I took it to the lake and released it, the duck flew away across the lake and my heart started to drop. Just then it reversed course and landed in the water just in front of where I was standing. It looked right at me, splashed the water with it's wings and quacked. Then it turned, got a run off the water and flew away from sight. The feelings of joy and sorrow at the same time can be overwhelming.
January 16, 2011 at 11:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
matt, watched the video. it was great! : ) remember keep you head down and stay safe...
eriks mom.
January 16, 2011 at 11:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
Create: Please don't judge New Yorkers by a film cast or crew who shot a movie there. Whose to say they were actually New Yorkers? They could have been from anywhere.
It is unfortunate when any visitor or tourist makes a pest of themselves and fails to see the true values of what a location has to offer.
Europeans complain about American tourists all the time -- but they sure like and benefit greatly from American dollars.
New York City perhaps benefits more than any place else from tourist dollars. The arts, plays, museums, skyscapers, restaurants and even parks bring in many millions a year to our city.
I can't speak for the rest of the city, but I can tell you that in Manhattan, emphasis is on fitness, natural foods and health.
Those locations presenting themselves as "getting back to nature," or great venues for any type of EXCERCISE (hiking, skiing, cycling, running) would probably attract many New York tourist dollars.
I understand this might not be something your state wants, as yes, some New Yorkers can be fussy and demanding (like tourists anywhere.)
But, for those places struggling financially and job-wise, (but rich in natural resources) it might be something to consider.
Tourism after all, creates many, many jobs and financial rewards.
Try to envison a brighter future for Kansas in terms of how it might meet some national trends and provide for things that people are seeking without "selling itself" out.
"Down home, friendly people." Lower cost of living." Hiking or biking trails. Nature walks. Wildlife. Photography. Wholesome foods. Good, clean fresh air.
You have many, if not most of these things already and they are the way the country is going.
Hunting, however, as mentioned the other day, is something not growing, but rather, diminishing in our country.
January 16, 2011 at 11:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
scarlett01_98,
The only guaranteed way to destroy an enemy is to make him your friend. You may not always agree but at least a friend will pause to savor to your point if it's not to acrid.
January 16, 2011 at 11:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
REWBA: Wow, what a wonderful and heart touching story! Thank you so much for saving the injured duck and restoring him/her back to health.
And, as you story points out, ducks (and other waterfowl) learn who their friends are and will display quite a bit of loyalty and recognition. I think its amazing that you were able, not only to rescue the duck, but successfully treat his injury as well.
I would go to the ends of the earth if I could learn how to successfully rescue injured waterfowl!
Here in NYC, geese and swans ensnared around fishing lines in our public parks has become a problem and it is not easy for even the park rangers to get these birds.
Last summer, a goose was shot with an arrow in Prospect Park. Rangers were unable to capture the goose with the arrow through his neck for weeks. Eventually, the goose (named, "Target") managed to pull the arrow out himself.
Park goers and the media were thrilled.
But, then two weeks later, Target (when molting) was rounded up along with 367 other geese, goslings and even some mallards and gassed by the city and USDA.
They did not even spare the "celebrity" goose.
Thanks again for sharing this story with us and saving the duck.
We could use your expertise here in NYC. -- Or, perhaps that is something that the people in Kansas could show us New Yorkers: How to rescue an injured duck, goose or swan.
January 16, 2011 at 12:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
apierich (anonymous) says...
Patty, a true hunter will do anything in their power to track down an animal that is injured but not killed by their shot. I have personally seen those who put their own safety aside to track those animals down, suffering frost bite, parasites, and other health problems to make sure they are not unnecessarily causing the suffering of animals. There are even in some places laws where the hunter who does not track down the animal can be prosicuted and even imprisoned for inhumane treatment of animals for leaving them wounded. It is hard to enforce but is enforced fully when found.
Also, just because the grocery store is right there does not mean people have the means to patronize them. The average family salary in Kansas is right now somewhere around $32-38 thousand dollars a year. I am sure that you could not survive yourself on that let alone care for a whole family on that amount. Sure, grocery stores throw a lot of food away every year because it is not purchased, perhaps that would be better sent to food kitchens and pantries, but the bottom line is what matters and it's easier for these companies to pay someone to throw it away than the extra time to call around and set up pickup or actually deliver it themselves. You may have never had to make the choice between milk for your child or gas for your car to get to a doctors appointment, but many of us have. If I can go out and hunt, which by the way the meat taken from hunting wild game is leaner and overall healthier than what is raised on a factory farm even that organically raised, so that I don't have to make that decision then so be it. Switching to a no meat diet won't help that either as the price of a balanced diet without meat is much more than one with meat.
You seem to have a very shielded view of the world with blinders on. Sure, there are those here who are the same way on the opposite side of it all, but in the end people are people, we all deep down have the same basic needs, drives, and desires in life with the differences being in how we approach attaining them. We can agree to disagree as far as the day is long but in the end we do need to just step away acknowledging that neither side is going to fully see the other sides point of view and ways of attaining life. The reasons are many on either side, and preaching is one way to get people to close down completely and fight harder against you.
January 16, 2011 at 12:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
apierich (anonymous) says...
Patty, I respect your ideas and convictions, more people need convictions that they educate themselves about and feel strongly about, but I and many others will never see the world as you do and agree with what you say. Perhaps if you were preaching to a younger crowd of impressionable people trying to figure out what the world is about and where they want to go in it you would get a lot more people on your side, but this forum is one where you are not going to get any slack.You do get on hunting sites in the innocent idea that you will change someone's mind, sad news is that if someone is on that site or reading that article they are already established and therefore your strong imagery is not going to make a difference to them except upset them that you are invading their space for them to talk to and be with like minded people. You are not here to educate yourself, you are here to push yourself onto others. It is not welcome or appreciated as I am sure it is not on the other places. I am not going to tell you to stop it out right, that is not my place, but I will tell you that you are not making a big impact on anything when you are focusing on those who already have their minds made up. There is a reason those who preach just one side being blind to the other don't get much done anywhere (that includes PETA and other organizations) because the majority of people can see through it and are smart enough to educate themselves on both sides rather than getting caught up in the hype of "feel good rhetoric" and what is presented as common sense without any back up information that is given by a non-biased source. Most people in the mid-west are not interested in being the skinniest, richest, most materially rich, most morally rich, better than thou people like I have personally experienced on the coast growing up. There are a few that are but for the most part they are not. These are a lot of people who are interested in being the best them that they can be in terms of treating others right, taking care of everything around them, and actually knowing who they are without someone else telling them that. They are sure of themselves and when people say that they should question that, they will lash out instead of depending on someone they don't even know and will likely never meet. We know it is not one aspect of a person that makes them good or bad overall, there is a lot of grey area in between, and we will admit that we have faults. You aren't going to get a polite facade of political and social correctness, we say it as it is or at least as we see it. No one knows everything, and I would challenge you to find one person who blogs on this site to say that they do in a serious manner.
January 16, 2011 at 12:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
apierich (anonymous) says...
We are open to new ideas, not attacks or shaming. Shame may work for you and those you are use to dealing with in your everyday life, but shaming a paper for reporting on a community event, what is that? That's like shaming the NYT's for posting a rally that is going on because you don't agree with what that rally is for. Would you really do that? Tell them "Shame on you for promoting (enter whatever you are against here)." Why? It is not going to stop the event from happening and is going to be seen as an attack by all in the community out here, no matter what their beliefs are. That is why you are going to continue to get this. I guess you just like to create drama because your life is so empty from your own choices that you need to reach half way across the country to feel useful. Clean up your own back yard first, then you can come after us and be treated with a little more respect.
January 16, 2011 at 12:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
PattyA, It may sound crazy but have you tried using trained hunting dogs to capture injured birds and retrieve them for medical care? That's what I thought of when I saw the news of that goose with an arrow in it and people saying that they couldn't catch it. My dog could have caught it in a couple seconds and brought it right to me without hurting it further. But my dog and me were a couple thousand miles away at the time.
January 16, 2011 at 12:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
REBA: Is that how you were able to capture the injured duck? With your dog?
Few dogs trained for hunting in NYC.
I don't live near Prospect Park (in Brooklyn) so can't speak to what methods were tried to capture the goose with the arrow.
I am able to get ducks and geese to come very close to me, but not sure how to grab them successfully without causing panic or escape in the bird.
I would like to know this, because as mentioned, it is common for geese and swans to get their legs ensnared in fishing line, and so far, there doesn't seem to be much plan in place to free the birds when this occurs.
Over the summer, two geese practically crippled from fishing line in Central Park. I offered to meet with park ranger to try and get the birds, but he kept telling me that either he did not see the crippled geese or they flew away from him. Eventually, the geese left with their flockmates in the early fall. I don't know what happened with them.
One of the main reasons I look up articles on geese everyday is to try and find information that might shed light on rescuing them when they are hurt.
Unfortunately, almost all the articles are about hunting geese, such as this one was.
There is however, a recent article about folks trying to rescue another goose with arrow in neck in a different location. So far, no one has been able to capture.
Will look up and post that article link here. Perhaps you might have a suggestion for the people?
January 16, 2011 at 1:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
REWBA: This is the article about Canada goose with arrow in neck in Duluth. Attempts have been made to try and rescue the goose for more than a month.
What do you think would best means for helping this goose?
http://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/loca...
January 16, 2011 at 1:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
Patty, No, My dog was in the house. I just caught the duck with my hands that day. It was only seconds from being caught by a stray dog so I had to move fast.
I use a cast net to catch native fish for my ornamental pond. It doesn't hurt the small fish too bad. I bet it could be used to catch a wounded goose.
Here is an instructional video for a cast net.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOUkj2...
January 16, 2011 at 1:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
Apierich: Since I have been here, I don't believe I have made any disparaging remarks against Kansans. As said, I have never been to Kansas and am in no position to render a judgment on the state or its people.
However, I have certainly read many insults and preconceived notions being hurled against New Yorkers, "Liberals" (I am a registered Independent, by the way), HSUS and PETA.
However, I refuse to judge all Kansans by some of the remarks here.
Whether from NYC or Kansas, whether "liberal" or conservative, whether black or white, we are all Americans first and we are all individuals first.
People living in different parts of the country should hopefully be open to exchanges in perspective, opinion, information and learning about each other that doesn't degenerate into insults, prejudice, name-calling and labels.
Thank you.
January 16, 2011 at 1:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
patty i'm going to forward your lies about the usda to the proper authorities, then they will get your url, and sue you for slander. so just keep typing away, my 'friend". stoopid bi***
January 16, 2011 at 1:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
Sorry, I just read your link. I would worry about causing additional injuries with that arrow using a cast net though. Maybe over time, the goose will learn to trust Jerry Wiederholt enough to let him help. Like you said, geese are smart. Good for Jerry! Great man!
January 16, 2011 at 1:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
Also, if the tip of the arrow is straight, the gooses healing process will eventually reject the arrow enough for the goose to pull it out on it's own without anyone doing anything. Let's hope for the best.
January 16, 2011 at 1:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
REWBA: Interesting video. I could see myself trying this and ensnaring myself! Someone would have to come and rescue me! ;)
Not sure this mehtos would work with Canada geese who are extremely wary and observant. Anything strange or out of the ordinary, they usually take off.
Videos seen of people capturing geese ensnared with fishing line, usually involve two people or at least, a fairly youngish, strong guy. They usually have to win the trust of the goose over a period of days with food and then be able to grab goose quickly and with some expertise.
My biggest problem is the lack of confidence for never having personally witnessed a goose rescue. Am fearful goose will escape and never trust me again.
At some point, will have to get over this fear. Bound to be more fishing line geese next summer. Am not going to stand by and feel helpless.
If others have ever rescued a hurt goose, would appreciate tips on safest and least traumatic way of rescuing bird.
By the way, I did check out some of the writings of Cheryl that you posted. Very nice. Beautiful photos. Excellent writer.
January 16, 2011 at 2:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
hi rewba,
my down side is, liars like patty, really piss me off. like i said s/he started this by attacking brandy, first rattle out of the gate. then s/he attacked matt, then s/he posted lies about my hubbies job. if not for him/her this thread would never grown like this. but s/he seems to like all this drama. and i no longer have a life....ooohhhh well.
hey are going to the get together for bb, if steve plans it?
January 16, 2011 at 2:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
rewba, i know stop feeding the troll!!!
January 16, 2011 at 2:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
Scarlett: I did not write any "lies" about the USDA.
It WAS USDA workers who rounded up and transported to gas chambers at Kennedy Airport hundreds of Canada geese from Prospect Park last summer. USDA ADMITS that.
Also, the quote, "The geese can take anywhere from five minutes to an hour to die in the gas chambers" comes directly from Carol Bannerman who is an official spokesperson for USDA. Call her up and speak to her yourself, if you don't believe me.
Though Bannerman says that she has personally never witnessed a goose gassing, she claims this is what her workers have reported to her.
If you did not like my referring to the people who did the roundups and gassings as "henchmen," well that is a matter of opinion. Seems like a pretty cruel way to make a living.
There is no law against having an opinion in this country.
January 16, 2011 at 2:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
By the way, I am not denouncing everyone who works for the USDA. -- Just those involved with the roundups and gassings of geese and other destructions of wildlife.
One realizes that people have to make a living, but surely there must be better ways than rounding up helpless birds in the dead of night (or early morning) and delivering them for painful, slow and cruel death.
January 16, 2011 at 2:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
apierich (anonymous) says...
Patty, I did not say you were necessarily saying anything against Kansans, but you are against people who hunt and you are on a Kansas newspapers website telling people that their way of life is wrong and yours is right. I was explaining why the people in this forum are acting the way they are. Just because you don't use such straight forward and sometimes off colored language does not mean that you are not poking sticks at the way of life of many in all rural communities all over the world. I am not saying that we can not have an exchange of ideas, that is fine, but what is really the point when it has gone this far? If you are not willing to respect the differences or really even learn anything about the why, then is this just for your entertainment? If it is then how is that any different than those who hunt for entertainment? Yes, resturaunts and grocers throw away a lot of food, a lot of hunters can not afford to buy that food, so attack and "shame" those industries, not the hunters who are doing what they can to make a way in the world. I am sure you have gotten more ideas from those giving ways that wild waterfowl in distress can be rescued because of their hunting experience. Just as you feel you have to hold on tighter to your convictions because, and I will openly admit, some are attacking you very bluntly in the forum, so do they by your putting them down. You started it by attacking a community and a way of life, this community will defend itself and the ways of life of it's members.
Also, arrows in ducks necks are and have been common, not because someone in the area that the animal is found to be in distress did it but because it happened somewhere at some time. I remember when I was little seeing a snippet from a news story from the '70's of such a thing. Does that mean that archery and bows and arrows, because there have been more advancements in those in the recent years than guns available to the public, should be taken away from everyone too? They are more likely to leave an animal in pain for an extended time than a rifle. There are good arguments on both sides but as is often the truth the best outcomes come from in the middle.
If your problem is with excessive prodution processes and industry, then go shame them. If your problem is with gun control, taking them away does not get rid of the problem, look up the gun fatality rate of Japan, they don't allow civilians to have guns but still have deaths caused by civilians with guns. Accidents with guns often occur when the handler does not have the proper training or does not follow those standards for whatever reasons. I could go on about arguments against excessive gun control but I won't. If your problem is with animal control practices, go after the officials that make those calls. We aren't the ones you are angry with, so don't attack us then try to talk us into going to your side. It simply doesn't work.
January 16, 2011 at 2:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
Patty, It might help to reduce fishing line entanglement by inviting the fishing community, naturalists, environmentalists, animal rights activists and anyone else who cares in the Central Park area to unite at the lake and remove the fishing lines and other dangers that have accumulated over the years from the shallows and banks. Concerned businesspeople would probably sponsor such an event if someone was willing to organize it. Just a thought.
January 16, 2011 at 3:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
brandy, any news about the goose hunt? did enough teams register? how big was the winning goose? which team won?
January 16, 2011 at 3:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
scarlett01_98, I've been reading the "blog in peace" string. Haven't posted yet. I'm having trouble coming up with something meaningful enough to say there. Preston Monroe was a friend of mine. Both online and in person. Online, he called me his "kindred spirit". He would see when I was going off the deep end and warn me by saying "Next time leave bail money" or some other clever phrase to try to stop me. In person we shared "war stories" over coffee and we spoke on the phone frequently. I've been to his home and met his two little dogs. I had hoped to show my garden off to him but never got the chance. Preston was a good man and if Steve organizes has a wake for him at the town royal, I'll be there.
Being relatively new to the Blog Hogs of the Emporia Gazette, you probably don't know the story behind YY4U or Akamai and how Preston would try to save them from themselves. Try as he may, Preston couldn't stop them and they were banished from existence.
That's another point that one should remember. We are all passionate about one subject or another. When one of those subjects comes up and we may find ourselves getting frustrated with another poster because of something we perceive to be insulting to our cause, we must realize that it isn't important enough to respond quickly then regret our words. Once posted, they are there forever. Trolls will find them, copy, paste and bring all those feeling back again. You could get so angry that you violate the decency rules and not be able to post anymore. Stay warm up there in North Lyon County and tell your son THANKS.
January 16, 2011 at 4:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
rewba, actually if patty had not commented on this story with an attack, i would have never posted anything. most probably many bloggers would have never said a thing . it would have been read, noted and dropped. i did do a lot of editing before hitting the post button. believe me. s/he simply needs to leave it alone. i have decided to ignore any further posts by s/he it. it would have been nice to meet bb, but it wasn't meant to be.
January 16, 2011 at 5:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
I would bet that patty wishes she had said it in a way that wasn't perceived as an attack but like I said, Once you hit the "post comment" button, it's impossible to edit. Trying to restate your case on these strings is nearly impossible because once someone feels insulted here, boy watch out! You can try to explain that insult was never your intent to some who post on here regularly but they will go back, take the offending words out of context, copy it and paste it in a comment calling your mother a liar....or worse.
January 16, 2011 at 5:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
lol rewba,
my mother was as crazy as a loon. however my dad was a "look you in the eye and state your opinion, kind of guy". i have some neighbors that will say the same things about me. i don't run from a fight, even now. texans and children of texans are like that. some day i'll tell you about the texas pig farmer and the somalians.... the story ends with the somalians leaving texas in a hurry... i do try to stay calm. my neuro's like me to stay calm , fewer seizures and strokes that way.
oh and it's cold up here!!!!
January 16, 2011 at 7:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
rewba, i did read the posts for close to a year before i posted anything. i believe most people do. i got involved when i was at newman hospital and noticed all the upset people packing and leaving. the current don had just restructured and fired many nurses. this prompted me to speak out. its all water under the bridge now....
January 16, 2011 at 7:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
restated the former don. not the current don
January 16, 2011 at 7:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
apierich (anonymous) says...
REWBA, you are right, and I do feel I have restated and restated as well as others and I have grown weary of it all. Sometimes there are things that I, for some unknown reason down deep inside, can't let go. In this case you are much wiser and level headed about it throughout. I tend to go overboard and write novels where I am sure a sentence would do restating over and over the same thing. Perhaps I like banging my head up against the wall, deep down I must be more of a massacist than I thought.
Oh well, PattyA, I still respect your positions and convictions and hope all the best in your future works to help the beings you feel you must in your own way. There will always be those butting of heads but you seem to be strong enough of will to stand by your convictions no matter what. The world needs more people like that.
January 16, 2011 at 10:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
Patty- Don't come to my home looking for food when you discover that stores no longer operate fairly in disaster situations. I will have everything I need to survive when that happens, and will only share with family and friends that live like we do. Cars have been implicated in many thousands of "accidental" human deaths, suicides and impulsive, unplanned manslaughters (people using vehicles to solve a dispute). Then, there is always the danger of cars/planes and trains falling into seriously disturbed hands who then use them for mass murder. See the hypocrisy in your rant against guns? Before you say that guns arent necessary like transportation is, remember what came first and what made america possible in the first place. The one thing our founding fathers failed to accomplish when setting up this great Nation of ours, was to not allow the very people and oppresive governmental rule that inspired them to seek life elsewhere from following them over here.
"Guns don't kill people, people do" is true. But, with millions of guns in the hands of many millions of people, who is to say that your next trip to the grocery store, church, work place or school won't be your last?"
Who's to say the next time you step out your front door, perhaps a taxicab goes out of control and turns you into sidewalk pizza? Your hypothetical questions trying to make hunting and gun ownership look bad are very weak. I would wager more people are killed yearly riding bicycles than there are people killed with firearms. Here's a link that lists the top ten causes of death in American citizens, I don't see gun shot victims on the list. http://www.statisticstop10.com/Causes...
A sociopath will use whatever they can find to inflict fatal wounds. They do not care about laws, restrictions, nor would they care about all out bans on weapons, they'll still have them.
January 17, 2011 at 2:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
"But, lets remember that not all hunters are "expert marksmen." How many animals escape immediate death and escape with injuries -- only to die a horrible death later?"
What brought that cheapshot on? I nor anyone else here claimed all hunters are expert marksmen.
Ever seen what blue tongue does to deer? Ever seen what deer do when they have eaten all the available food in an area and the population exceeds the carrying capacity of the area? Have you ever seen a herd of 6-10 deer fatally wounded by one or two vehicles, all fighting trying to get up off the busy surburban highway after they were hit by the vehicles? Even though their legs are broke and they have no chance of surviving, they try to run off until the expire? That happens very often in the area of Kansas where the highest density of deer was recorded the NATION last year. There were over 200 deer per square mile within a city park in a suburb of Kansas City Kansas. The deer were breeding like cockroaches and rats because there was no hunting allowed and no natural predators to control their numbers. I imagine the same problem existed with the geese you wrote about in your park. Due to ARO people like yourself, they hired expert sharpshooters to come in at night to reduce the deer numbers. The deer were physically inspected by the governmental wildlife agency, then were taken to area butchershops where they were processed and then taken to area food banks to be served to people in need.
I will not waste my time answering your final four paragraphs on your response to me. They are absolutely rediculous comments and questions straight out of the ARO handbooks.
January 17, 2011 at 2:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
Apierich and others: When skimming through and finding this article last week, there was a visceral reaction.
I love Canada geese. I have observed and taken much joy from these animals over the past few years.
I watched two parent geese raise 6 goslings this past spring and summer. "Daddy" was usually the sentinel. Always watching out for any threats -- even at night, it was as if he never rested. Mama mallards would sleep with their ducklings near the goose family at night for reasons of security and protection.
When at last, the goslings were ready to fly, the family did not immediately leave.
There was one Angel Wing gosling who would never fly. The family returned every day back to the breeding site, supposedly to insure that the compromised gosling would be able to survive on his own. When adapted to being alone and hanging out with mallards, the rest of the family finally left for good.
This was wondrous to see.
Canada geese are extraordinary, regal creatures. Intelligent, devoted, loyal, protective, enduring, independent, unpredictable, mysterious, social, whimsicle, funny and peaceful.
I sometimes compare them to high spirited lovers who cannot be contained.
But, Canada geese are under assault nationally. Expanded hunting, culling, harassment, egg destruction and gassings. I fear for their ultimate future.
Getting back to the article:
As said, there was a visceral reaction to a piece that seemed aimed to recruit enough hunters to hold a goose shooting event for prizes.
"Disgusting" was the gut reaction and was the word used to describe the hunt and the article. And it is still deeply felt even a week later.
However, when commenting on this piece, I never expected the reaction that burst forth.
My words were not meant as personal "attack" on anyone, but rather the CONCEPT of assault on creatures whom I dearly love, appreciate and am in complete awe of.
I am sorry if some saw my words as "attack" on people of a region or writer of an article.
Were my words "attack" on a way of life or hunting in particular?
Yes, probably.
I understand instances of where shooting animals can or might be for the ultimate good of the species or an individual sick or injured animal.
But, no, I will never understand hunting for "sport," "pleasure" or prizes.
I love the outdoors. I love nature. But, I would rather put a gun to my own head then aim it at some defenseless creature who is in no position to fight back and simply wants to live his/her life and protect their young as I do mine.
I realize that is a view and feeling that others don't share.
So, let's just agree to disagree and try to conduct or leave this exchange with some modicum of respect for "how the other half lives" and the differences in perspective with which we each conduct our lives.
January 17, 2011 at 10:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
"No Country for Millions of Canada Geese." This is an insightful article from Japan Times about US plans for wiping out 2/3rds of the goose population, not just on the East Coast, but in fact, around the country.
I saved this piece not only because I agree 100% with it, but also because it gives some insight as to how we may appear to other civilized nations:
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bi...
January 17, 2011 at 11:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
hey neighbor, any news from steve about a get together for bb? what about a pot luck buffet? i think i can bring a shredded pork roast.
January 17, 2011 at 11:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mslater (Matt Slater) says...
Canada geese are extraordinary, regal creatures. Intelligent, devoted, loyal, protective, enduring, independent, unpredictable, mysterious, social, whimsicle, funny and peaceful.
Not to mention delicious!
Matt
January 17, 2011 at 11:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mslater (Matt Slater) says...
Actually, I think they taste pretty similar to snow owl.
January 17, 2011 at 11:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
good morning matt!
January 17, 2011 at 11:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
ever eat venison? whole, bbqed in a 55 gal barrel?
January 17, 2011 at 11:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
matt, remember to keep your head down and don't tick off your c/o.
January 17, 2011 at 11:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
oh as long as i'm off topic,
emporia is getting neuro's in feb!
January 17, 2011 at 11:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
REWBA: Thank you for your suggestion.
We are planning a "Hands Across the Lake" event this spring to be held at Prospect Park (one of the sites for last summer's bird gassings).
The event is to promote greater protection and more humane policies towards the wildlife in our city parks. Emphasis will be on the special relationship between children and animals.
As mentioned earlier, our protests and pressure have resulted in a plan for the park that would not involve further gassings of geese or unannounced cruelty to any animals.
We will however, also be addressing the problems of waterfowl entangled in fishing lines and how best to help these birds, as well as other issues.
The aim is for greater community involvement, openness and awareness.
It is obviously important for people everywhere to know and be aware of policies in communities and public parks.
No child should ever have to ask a parent anywhere, "Mommy, what happened to all the geesies?"
No mother or father should have to answer to their child, "The animals were all gassed in the middle of the night."
Thanks again, for your constructive suggestion.
January 17, 2011 at 12:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
If a fisherman gets a hook snagged on something at the bottom of the lake, the line could break at some point between the snagged hook and the fishing pole. When I rig my hook, I create a weak spot in the line close to the hook so if I get a snag and break the line, the line breaks at that weak spot. This way there is not enough abandoned fishing line to create more snags. (I hate snags) Although I never thought about it before, it also reduces the amount of abandoned line that might snare wildlife.
Is there a large fishing community in your area? I bet they don't like snags either. If they learn my technique, they will leave less line that creates more snags. (and goose snares) Sounds like a win win solution. Suggest it to the park authorities and it could become mandatory for anyone fishing in Central Park.
January 17, 2011 at 12:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
rewba, the goose with the arrow in it's neck died at least a couple of years ago, so no worries there. story was at least a couple of years old.
January 17, 2011 at 6:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ArleneS (anonymous) says...
Scarlett, if you ever bothered to read anything about the goose roundups, you would know that the USDA does indeed have killing squads that are slaughtering the geese in municipalities. This has been written up numerous times in papers and magazines across the country - in fact, someone in Japan even commented on one such killing event. So for you to deny that this is happening when even people in Japan know about it, well, let's just say it doesn't enhance your credibility in anything.
I happen to find PattyA's commentary highly evolved and intelligent and she was rude or mean to NO ONE. Even some people with opposing opinions had an open-minded and intelligent discussion with her. All except you. Everything out of you was "stupid b..."
PattyA said NOTHING to you that warranted your rudeness and ignorance.
It is a free country and you are free to make whatever comments you like. But be aware that when you have nothing to say but ranting and name calling, you are not going to get a reputation for excellence. Perhaps you should consider that it is better to keep your mouth closed and be presumed to be a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt.
January 17, 2011 at 6:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
scarlett01_98, Children with parent's who never take their kids out into nature to teach them a respect for life, but instead just buy them a bow and arrow and tell them to go outside and play are the ones who shoot arrows indiscriminately. These children injure and kill wildlife, domestic pets and each other. Then anti hunting groups point the finger at outdoors men and hunting as being the culprit.
Children and childish adults shooting guns and arrows indiscriminately in an around towns and cities are not hunters. They have no respect for anything or anyone. No one taught them or they didn't learn, but they are not outdoors men or hunters. That's for sure.
January 17, 2011 at 7:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
so true rewba, in the past, i have posted that i taught my son the way i was taught. guns aren't toys. neither are arrows. unless the word nerf is stamped on the side. maybe we can go into this discussion if there is a get together for bb.
January 17, 2011 at 8:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
meds kicking in time to sleep......
January 17, 2011 at 8:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lets_get_reasonable (anonymous) says...
Patty - Personally, I could never be a hunter or go out with a group on a hunt because I would likely cry every time I saw an animal shot. It breaks my heart. HOWEVER, I have four family members who not only participate in Ducks Unlimited, but a little organization called Hunt 4 Hunger, founded right here in Emporia. As much as it bothers me to think about an innocent animal losing its life, I also think about it's been happening for thousands of years and how my personal thoughts about it aren't any more important than a pro-hunter's opinions. True, hunting started as a means for survival - but today I personally know of families who rely solely on wild game as their source of food. Our local organization was created for that reason... you can't tell me these are not caring, nature-loving, good-hearted individuals. Here is the link to read all about them!
http://www.hunt4hunger.net/about.html
January 17, 2011 at 9:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
Patty lives in a place where one months rent can exceed the median annual income in Emporia, Kansas. It would be difficult for her to imagine that people would need to supplement their diet with wild game.
Personally, I would hope that people like Patty be so enchanted by our little spot of heaven that they would bring their friends and see our sights and enjoy the beauty of the Flint Hills of Kansas. They could stay in my home and they would be welcomed.
But I fear that no one in their right mind would ever be intrigued by the type of hospitality we have offered up to this passionate person.
I can only hope that PattyA realizes that the coldness demonstrated by a few on here is in no means a fair representation of our Emerald city on the plains.
January 17, 2011 at 10:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
Patty, be sure to read the story at this link.
http://www.emporiagazette.com/news/20...
Written by a well educated man who happens to be an avid gun owner, shooter, and hunter.
January 18, 2011 at 12:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
Yes neighbor, Scott Irwin is a local treasure.
January 18, 2011 at 7:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
iamRIGHTwingyouareWRONG (anonymous) says...
To PattyA
What about the Snow Goose, I remember when I was a kid the limit on Blue/Snows/Ross Geese was 2 now they have grown to such a high population that they are threatening their breeding grounds. So bad that a conservation season has been put in to effect.
What about the wheat farmer that loses half of his crop due to the migratory birds raping and pillaging the fields like barbarians? What about the over population of resident geese in the city's, it is so bad that they have goose police where my mother works. I am surprised that you living in the biggest city in The USA that you don't see that problem, but that could come from the fact that you are too busy smelling your own flatulence. You should thank myself and everyone else that hunts waterfowl for it being less of a problem than it is already now. Because if we didn't hunt you would lose more planes in your City than you could shake a stick at, thank god that Sully landed that plane safely or hundreds of humans could have died due to the fact that 2 geese were in the area of one of the busiest airports in the world.
January 18, 2011 at 8:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
REWBA: Thanks for your suggestion about creating a weakness in the fishing line near the hook. Will keep this in mind when discussions come up in the spring over fishing line problems in our parks.
You are also insightful in pointing to the problems of kids given bows and arrows, bee bee guns and the like and then just being told to go out and have fun.
Not only does such irresponsible parenting result in injuries to wildlife, but often to other kids and adults. Civil lawsuits often result prompting someone like Judge Judy to denounce repeatedly the giving of makeshift weapons (particularly, bee bee guns) to children and failing to supervise.
A big part of the problem of fishing lines and hooks injuring wildlife in our parks is due to fishing polls being handed out to kids as young as 12.
The fish in our park lakes are very small. Not much bigger than goldfish. It is supposed to be "catch and release" fishing. But, I have seen "week-end" dads with their kids totally clueless on how to get the struggling fish off the hook. By the time someone helps or shows them how to get the fish off, the fish is dead when thrown back in the water.
There is also more fishing at night when few rangers or park personnel are around to monitor what is going on.
My uncle (whom I loved) used to fish. I never fished, but tried to maintain a neutral position on it. Now, however, due to what's been observed over the past couple of years, I am repulsed by the fishing, too. It just seems cruel, not only to the fish, but birds as well.
Perhaps it is time for the "nature lover" hunters and fishers who you describe to start going after the renegades, irresponsibe parents and amateurs well, the way Judge Judy does. ;)
January 18, 2011 at 11:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
Circle of Life by Tim Rice
From the day we arrive on the planet
And blinking, step into the sun
There's more to be seen than can ever be seen
More to do than can ever be done
Some say eat or be eaten
Some say live and let live
But all are agreed as they join the stampede
You should never take more than you give
In the Circle of Life
It's the wheel of fortune
It's the leap of faith
It's the band of hope
Till we find our place
On the path unwinding
In the Circle, the Circle of Life
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with the scars
There's far too much to take in here
More to find than can ever be found
But the sun rolling high
Through the sapphire sky
Keeps the great and small on the endless round
On the path unwinding
In the Circle, the Circle of Life.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8ZnCT...
January 18, 2011 at 3:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
LetsGetReasonable: I don't want to knock a "hunger" organization, but, really are hunger and emaciation major problems in this country?
Walk into any book store. Read magazines and newspapers. Watch any TV "Doctor" show or "The Biggest Loser" and similar type programs.
Almost EVERYTHING is about "How to LOSE WEIGHT!"
I was at least 14-years-old before I heard of anyone having Diabetes. Now, it is almost as common as the sniffles. Obesity is a major cause of Diabetes AND Heart Disease AND most forms of cancer. These are the major killers of humans in the USA.
Although spending more money on "health care" than anywhere else, the US is only 17th in the world in terms of life expactancy. Why is that?
I don't think hunger and emaciation are this country's major problems. In fact, I believe the opposite.
Almost three decades ago, I went vegetarian. At the time I was 5'5" tall and weighed 120 lbs.. My weight dropped to 110 where I have been ever since.
I never "diet" or count a calorie. I eat anything I want (mostly pasta) and other grains. I take no medications, have never had a surgery or been treated for a major illness.
Maybe "Hunting for Hunger" sounds like a good gimmick or rationalization for shooting animals.
It just doesn't jive with the facts.
A veggie diet is far healthier than a largely meat diet and you will never see us veggies on "The Biggest Loser."
January 18, 2011 at 5:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
iamRIGHTwingyouareWRONG:
First of all, I am not going to thank you for hunting the waterfowl that I have so come to rejoice in and admire over the past few years.
Some of us like having birds in our public parks.
As matters are right now, I have to walk almost two miles to see any mallards at all and the geese are only seen certain times of the year.
"Don't buy the hype" you hear about any "overpopulation" of geese in NYC. Sure, there are times when migrating or raising young or moulting, one sees large flocks of the geese around a lake or pond. But, just when you think you're starting to learn about them or that they may stay a while, the geese are gone again.
This past New Year Eve, we had more than a million people packed into Times Square. Should we deduce that we thus have an "overpopulation" of humans?
Supposedly, we have 240,000 Canada geese in the entire state of New York. We have 9 million people living in NYC.
Yet, the feds want to "reduce" the goose population by 2/3rds!
We can get 200,000 people at a RAVE party!
Why is 240,00 geese in NY state "too many?" New York is a huge state!
I am tired of bureaucrats in Washington sitting behind a desk and making decisions for wildlife they seem to know little about and people and children they seem to have little respect for.
Killing animals is apparently quite lucrative for "Wildlife Services." USDA is paid hundreds of thousands of tax dolars to round up and gas wildlife in public parks. -- Even those animals the people have come to know and love.
As for flight 1549 that went down in the Hudson, two years ago, there is more to that story than we have been told.
For one matter, the plane apparently had engine problems on the previous flight and had to emergency land. For another, one has to question WHY this particular plane struck TWO migratory Canada geese (from Labrador) and had to crash land?
Geese don't normally "migrate" in the middle of January. One has to wonder if the geese were harassed and chased from somewhere near the airport?
Still, the fact is that ANY bird over 4 Lbs can technically take down a plane. A plane had to emergency land in Alaska a few months ago after hitting ONE eagle. Another had to emergency land in Salt Lake City a couple of months back after ONE Pelican hit the windshield.
Is your solution to these deficiencies in our airliners and airline system to KILL EVERY BIRD OVER 4 lbs WHO FLIES?
I'd sooner walk to California from New York than get on another plane.
January 18, 2011 at 6 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
REWBA: "There's more to be seen than can ever be seen."
What a beautful quote -- and so true.
Thanks for posting this!
Go Elton! -- and congratulations on his and Tim's new baby. ;)
January 18, 2011 at 6:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
PattyA, I really like the part that goes:
"But all are agreed as they join the stampede, You should never take more than you give"
Elton John is a wonderful musician with the voice of an angel. Zachary is fortunate to have loving parents.
January 18, 2011 at 6:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
PattyA, Ever heard of the Dirty Kanza? Check it out.
http://www.emporiagazette.com/news/20...
January 18, 2011 at 6:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
LetsGetReasonable:
No one needs to eat hunted geese from the fields or slaughtered chickens from an animal factory. We are no longer living in caves and forced to forage or kill for what we eat.
Spaghetti is cheap, as are most veggies.
One can cook up a delicious veggie dinner for less than two dollars that can last several days.
As for the gentleman who complained about the geese eating wheat or corn, as said, I don't mind paying extra for my pasta or bread.
Am happy to share it with the geesies and pay more to the farmers. ;)
Gluttony, is after all, one of the seven deadly sins.
January 18, 2011 at 6:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
REWBA: Regret that I never saw Elton in concert, though did hear some when he gave a freebie in Central Park some years back. (Had to work that day.)
Truly, one of the great artists of our times!
Question for you: Was Elton's first hit, "Friends?" Seem to recall him doing that song, but haven't heard it in years.
Loved Simon and Garfunkle and Dylan, too.
Simon and Garfunkle did a song years ago called, "Sparrow." Very moving, but sad. Made me cry, everytime.
A Dylan line: "I saw a young child beside a dead pony." (From, "Hard Rain...."). Makes me think of effect on children, our callousness towards wildlife, especially geese.
January 18, 2011 at 7:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
REWBA: LOL! Promote Dirty Kanza to New Yorkers and you will easily get 10,000 cylists!
Big controversy in NYC these days over all the bike lanes that have had to made to accomdate the thousands of cylists. Cycling almost as big as running now. Of course, motorists and truckers aren't happy, but the cylists have clout due their ever expanding numbers.
If Kansas has great bike and hiking trails and promotes them it could attract a lot of the fitness buffs from here -- as Utah is doing now with skiiers. They could bring money to your state.
January 18, 2011 at 7:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
PattyA, We also have a two world class disk golf parks in a town with a population less than 30K. Both Jones Park and Peter Pan Park in Emporia, KS are on the national tour for professional disk golfers.
Also the Tallgrass Prairie National Preserve's hiking trails are open year-round 24 hours a day. With over 41 miles to choose from, you are sure to experience something wonderful.
http://www.nps.gov/tapr/index.htm
I sponsor students attending Emporia State University who come from Japan and South Korea. I enjoy guiding them around to discover what it is about this place that they find interesting. It's always the simplest things that locals take for granted, these kids find amazing. I've learned a lot about my own back yard from these people from a foreign land.
January 18, 2011 at 8:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
10,000 cylists! We don't have that many hotel rooms. LOL
If they bring sleeping bags and tents they could camp out at the lake. (=^_^=)
January 18, 2011 at 8:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
REWBA: "Build them (the hotel rooms) and they will come."
Those who are successful perceive the ways of the future and find ways to meet needs and desires.
Right now in this country, there is a huge wave of people wanting to "get back to nature," eat healthier and enjoy exercise.
Kansas can have a lot to offer in terms of meeting some of these trends. You have lots of land, fresh air, vast skies and wildlife. These represent tremendous resources that would appeal to many -- especially those from overcrowded, stressful cities.
Land can be used for organic farming, bike and hiking trails. Abundance of wildlife could be appealing to photographers and nature lovers. Golf is obviously a popular sport if weather is conducive to it.
Right now, Kansas is mostly perceived (rightly or wrongly) as a "flyover" farm state with stockyards and slaughterhouses. Unfortunately, that is not an image that would attract many visitors.
Then again, there is the image from the Wizard of Oz of a kind of nice, "down home", family farm kind of place. ("There's no place like home!")
Perhaps you guys could play up something like, "There's no place like Kansas!" and then find ways to run with it.
Cheryl seemed to do a nice job in presenting Kansas in her writings and photos. Its a excellent starting point.
I am making these suggestions not as ways to "tell Kansans how to live" but as possible means for helping get the state out of an economic hole.
We all have to find creative, innovative and constuctive ways to move with the times, less we be stuck in outdated means that don't work anymore and doom us to suffering.
January 19, 2011 at 11:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
REWBA: Just a thought.
We all know about the famous "Tour de France."
How about a "Tour de Kansas?" Its kind of a shame that world class cyclists have to go to all the way to Europe to compete in an international bike race.
We of course have numerous marathons for runners. Boston, New York and many others.
But, it could be really cool having a major run take place in the rural mid west, as opposed to just another big city.
Personally, I think with the tremendous popularity of cycling right now, that might be a good way to go. It doesn't seem there are enough big cyling events to match the expanding love of the sport.
January 19, 2011 at 11:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
Peace to the geese!
A photo of the goose family from this past May.
So beautiful. May they all live to a ripe old age. ;)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/50648758...
January 19, 2011 at 12:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
PattyA, That's a wonderful picture! Is it yours?
As far as adding more hotel rooms, we already get thousands of naturalists, photographers, cyclists and other types of tourists to the Flint Hills every year. I love meeting these wonderful people. They come from all over the planet. I suppose that is normal in a place like New York but to people from here it's still sort of an oddity.
Having too many people sort of defeats the purpose of a relaxing vacation. I mean who wants to get away from the hustle and bustle of the big city only to find themselves in a long line? If 10,000 people came through here everyday I would have to move to the desert.
I don't live inside Emporia. There are almost 30,000 people living there. Too many people living too close to each other for my liking. I live so far in the hills that the city lights are just a glowing dot on the distant horizon with nothing to interfere with the view of the shining constellations in a crystal night sky.
January 19, 2011 at 7:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
PattyA, Please excuse me! Of course it was yours. All of them! I've been awake all night admiring your beautiful photography. Amazing! Thank You!
January 20, 2011 at 3:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
REWBA: Well, I guess we can always get surprises about places that we are not closely familiar with.
I never associated Kansas with images of naturalists, photographers, cyclists and other tourists, though the photos and writings from Cheryl painted a very lovely picture.
I think its a really positive thing that Kansas is finding creative ways to attract some different attention its way. You guys obviously have a great many natural resources that most people don't know much, if anything about. These might be good to promote on a larger scale. Obviously, Kansas is a lot more than "Kansas City Steaks." ;)
Likewise, New York City is a lot more than crowds, traffic and skyscrapers.
We have great beaches here and beautiful parks.
And yes, we have some wildlife, too. -- That is, when we allow the animals to live.
Some months back, I even saw a Coyote in Central Park!
What a thrill that was! Unfortunately, it was night and he moved too quickly for me to get a photo. Amazing how high Coyotes can jump. They are not very big, but easily clear a 5 foot fence like a gazelle. The coyote was far more scared of my dogs and me, than I was of him, unfortunately.
Someday, I hope to see more of this great country, than what's been experienced so far. I loved Austin, Texas as a child. California is lovely. And there are parts of Utah that are absolutely gorgeous.
Yes, so much more to be seen than what's been seen. ;)
Its good sometimes to get out of our little safety nets for while and see what's really out there.
It seems its never what we really think -- or even how its been depicted or portrayed.
January 20, 2011 at 4:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
REWBA: By the way, did you like the photos of "BradJoLina?"
Fascinating story behind these three flightless ducks at Harlem Meer.
In short, Joey was dumped with two siblings (I believe they are Pekin ducks) in August of 2009 at the Central Park lake.
Amazingly, the three flightless "domestic" ducks surived the winter.
But, last spring, Joey's two siblings disappeared within two weeks of each other. Since they were not ill and cannot fly, human cruelty was suspected.
I worried over Joey being all alone. While the mallards and geese didn't attack him, they didn't exactly welcome him either into their flocks.
But, Joey apparently felt great urgency to be "accepted" into the clan of the two dominant ducks of the Meer. -- The two flightless ducks I called, "Brad and Angelina" -- after the famous Hollywood couple.
"Brad" viciously attacked Joey relentlessly! -- Even appearing to try and drown the larger white duck on several occasions!
I wondered if Joey was masochistic?
Why in the world was he trying to get in with these two ducks who CLEARLY rejected him?
This brutal "hazing" took place repeatedly over serveral months!
But, then finally, Joey WAS accepted by Brad and Angelina this past November!
And boy, is it a good thing.
Because, with the lake mostly frozen now and all of the geese and most of the mallards gone, Joey would never be able to survive all alone.
The three ducks are inseparable now and work together to keep lake from entirely freezing over.
A truly amazing story of animals (even a duck!) having the awareness to know what they have to do to survive and apparently even knowing how to PLAN and anticipate future danger!
I have a blog where I write about this stuff. The sheer resiliency of nature and animals never fails to amaze.
January 20, 2011 at 6:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
PattyA, I will admit that my minds eye never pictured flora and fauna at the mention of NYC. I was a baby when we visited my Great Uncle there and all that I remember was crowded streets and looking out the window of his apartment and the fear of falling.
Your photos are amazing! Those parks are awesome too.
My property is surrounded by old walnut trees and there is a pair of old pecan trees at the center of the lot so I have always had squirrels scampering about this place. I had always seen them as more of a nuisance before as they stole feed from the song birds, planted trees in my flower beds and chewed up phone lines in the alleyway.
Early last spring I chopped down a diseased elm tree that was blocking the sun from my garden and found a baby squirrel. I tried to reunite it with it's mommy but the mother squirrel wouldn't take it. Since I was responsible for destroying it's home, I felt obligated to care for it until she could make it on her own. I fed her with an eyedropper and kept it her a shoe box. She grew up and lives in the trees today and I gained a new appreciation for the squirrels around here. Today when Dotori (that's her name) comes around looking for food she doesn't have to steal from the birds. I have her favorite food waiting in a feeder of her own.
Where can I find your blog? Is there a link to it on fliker?
January 20, 2011 at 8:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
PattyA, I will admit that my minds eye never pictured flora and fauna at the mention of NYC. I was a baby when we visited my Great Uncle there and all that I remember was crowded streets and looking out the window of his apartment and the fear of falling.
Your photos are amazing! Those parks are awesome too.
My property is surrounded by old walnut trees and there is a pair of old pecan trees at the center of the lot so I have always had squirrels scampering about this place. I had always seen them as more of a nuisance before as they stole feed from the song birds, planted trees in my flower beds and chewed up phone lines in the alleyway.
Early last spring I chopped down a large elm tree that was blocking the sun from my garden and found a baby squirrel. I tried to reunite it with it's mommy but the mother squirrel wouldn't take it. Since I was responsible for destroying it's home, I felt obligated to care for it until she could make it on her own. I fed her with an eyedropper and kept it her a shoe box. She grew up and lives in the trees today and I gained a new appreciation for the squirrels around here. Today when Dotori (that's her name) comes around looking for food she doesn't have to steal from the birds. I have her favorite food waiting in a feeder of her own.
Where can I find your blog? Is there a link to it on fliker? If you don't want to post it publicly I understand. Send it to my e-mail yy4u@live.com I promise not to spam you. :-)
January 20, 2011 at 8:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
sorry for the double post. My computer does weird things when the kids are playing games with their friends on x-box live.
January 20, 2011 at 8:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
This page is working strange today Rewba. I tried posting earlier, long delay so I gave up and went off the net. I see now my post did go thru, although it never finished loaded before I logged off. Only website doing it, it's not my service causing the problem.
January 20, 2011 at 9:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
Thanks neighbor. I thought it was caused by the kids taking up all the bandwidth with their war games. Their friends from Japan, China, South Korea, Puerto Rico and one from Texas are battling it out and they have the surround sound thingy. With the profanity in different languages and all the shooting and explosions it sounds like a world war in there. :-)
January 20, 2011 at 9:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
REWBA: Its really amazing that you were able to save both the duck with the injury and the baby squirrel. I have saved many a cat and dog over the years, but am totally clueless on how to save and care for other animals.
Last night some people abandoned a family of five hamsters in the park! (Can you imagine that? We got snow last night and temps are going down to single digits this weekend! What are people thinking??!)
Two of the hamsters got out of the box. I tried for more than a half hour to get the tiny escapees, but between slipping on the ice and the tiny things jiggling out of my gloved hands when I finally got them, it was a comedy of errors. Of course then they were spooked. They ran off and disappeard after the botched rescue.
The good news is that for the other three hamsters still in the box, I was able to persuade a very lovely couple walking their Boston Terrier to take the hamsters home and bring them to the animal shelter in the morning (which is, by the way, in the neighborhood.)
I was going to bring the hamsters home with me, but was fearful my five cats would want them for dessert! As it was, one of my dogs was going crazy!
Can't imagine why people would throw out hamsters in a snow and ice covered park just before a snow fall. Two of the hamsters were big, making me think they were the parents of the three tiny ones.
Guess the owners didn't realize that a pair of opposite sex hamsters have babies.
Thank God for the nice people willing to take the little creaturs home!
January 21, 2011 at 9:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
In case anyone thinks that our government only kills geese, think again.
Millions of tax dollars are spent in extermination campaigns against all kinds of "nuisance" animals from mute swans to foxes to geese.
Apparently, in South Dakota, starlings are the latest bird on the "Wildlife Services" (USDA) hit list:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01...
January 21, 2011 at 9:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
PattyA, Around here irresponsible parents give their children cute puppies for Christmas and by January they are dumping them off out of town at the side of the road. They end up being chased away by resident dogs, hit it by a car or eaten by coyotes. If they are lucky, they will make it back to town where animal control picks them up, feeds them well, then puts them down. :-(
Just ask anyone who lives on a county road and they will tell you some horror stories of dumped dogs.
January 21, 2011 at 10:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
REWBA: Unfortunately, one doesn't have to travel a country road to find animal abandonment and cruelty. We have plenty of it in New York City.
From dumping cats and dogs in streets and ducks, hamsters and (get this) even a Canada goose in our parks, the mystery and craziness is endless.
Now, some might question the dumping of a Canada goose in the park. Well, yes that is right.
This past summer, a friend of mine found a very bedraggled and confused Canada goose just sitting in the grass at Prospect Park and looking "lost."
She was actually able to walk up to and pick up the goose!
There was a guy standing nearby. He told her he had taken home a goose egg a year before and raised the goose in HIS BATH TUB! But, now that the goose was big, he decided to release the apartment-raised goose to the park!
When my friend began to question and admonish the man, he suddenly took off.
Park Rangers eventually took the goose (who apparently didn't know how to fly) and reportedly released her to a sanctuary.
Yes, there is no end to the lunacy. Believe it or not, a few years ago, a man was found to have raised a TIGER in his Harlem apartment!
One guesses by those standards, raising a Canada goose in one's bathtub is no big deal.
January 22, 2011 at 1:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
"Neighbor: Why do you presume that I am part of an "organization?"
In fact, I am not."
Followed your link to your pictures of the Geese in the park. That link listed your full name, Patty Adjamine on it. A quick look on Google and what did I find? You are not only a member of a animal rights group, but are the founder of it. Google also list links about your other efforts, articles etc.
http://nyca.net/about.html
Nothing wrong with being passionate about your beliefs and promoting your cause Patty, but being dishonest about your motives is not a way to gain respect for what you do.
January 23, 2011 at 1:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
neighbor,
you are right.
like i said before. patty is a liar and a hypocrite.
big surprise, typical new yorker,
January 23, 2011 at 2:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Good work, neighbor!
Gotcha, PattyA.
January 23, 2011 at 3:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
just so there is no confusion, in her picture patty is wearing leather shoes and makeup. both are made from animals or byproducts.
January 23, 2011 at 3:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jamesbordonaro (James Bordonaro) says...
WOW! Here I thought the only entertainment today was going to be watching football. We have an actual discussion online! Too bad BiscuitBoy isn't able to join in.
Only one thought directed to Scarlett. The Humane Society of the United States is a highly professional and dedicated organization. I have met and worked on a state referendum campaign with the current president, Wayne Pacelle, and found him to be very sincere.
January 23, 2011 at 4:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
Jamesnordonaro: I am not "part of" HSUS (or PETA), but am a great admirer particularly of HSUS. We are working closely with HSUS to institute humane measures of living peacefully with geese in our public parks, but limiting their population growth. HSUS, as you say, is a highly professional and dedicated organization that tries to bridge the conflicts between animals and humans and seeks responsible and peaceful means to resolve problems and save animals. Why anyone would have a "problem" with that, I don't know.
Folks, some of us really need to grow up here.
We need to realize that we live in an age where there are thousands of fabulous humane alternatives to meat, leather, furs, animal-tested cosmetics, gassing geese, poisoning starlings or shooting birds out of the skies.
I realize not everyone "gets" that or is willing to step into the 21st century. But, please don't drag the rest of us down to the hole that you're in.
January 23, 2011 at 4:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
HA HA HA HAHAHA
told you all, patty adjamie was a liar!!!
and hsus is a scam!!!
January 23, 2011 at 4:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
By the way, NYCA is not an "Animal Rights organization," but rather a cat and dog rescue group.
Over the years, we have rescued several thousand cats and dogs from streets and the city pound and placed them in carefully screened, responsible, adoptive homes.
Personally, I care about all animals, not just cats and dogs. It is my personal desire to "branch out" and learn more about the behaviors, treatment and rescues of other animals.
But, the focus of the organization I am affiliated with is strictly cat and dog rescue and placement. So yes, I answered honestly and correctly when saying I am not "part of" HSUS or PETA which I was accused specifically of being (or AR) which was the topic of conversation, not cat and dog rescues.
I will say for the record here however, that I am a firm supporter of most of the goals of HSUS, though not a financial supporter or employee.
January 23, 2011 at 4:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
I love my dogs, both were rescued.
January 23, 2011 at 5:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
Both of my dogs are rescues, too.
Tina, my Corgi mix was going to be put down at the pound 14 years ago due to "Kennel Cough." Took her home to foster and medically treat, but then could never let her go.
Chance, my purebred Pomeranian was going to be put down at pound for "Extremely Aggressive Behavior" ...."biting rope, attempting to bite. Severe behavior."
Well, figured I could never adopt out Chance with all that crap on his record so he became mine.
Chance is my "baby" now. Extremely loyal, devoted and protective. Great pal to Tina.
People often remark how "well trained" my two dogs are.
But, fact is, I never "trained" them at all!
They are simply happy, balanced and secure dogs.
They are conditioned to being well behaved because they simply love their lives, their routines and they like to please me.
I believe in "conditioning," not "training." ;)
January 23, 2011 at 5:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
Good for you, Steve, either rescuing or adopting your dogs!
Animals know when you have saved their butts, and they will reward you a thousand times over.
That only everyone would either adopt or rescue their cats and dogs, we could finally see an end one day to the horrors of puppy mills and Back Yard Breeders.
January 23, 2011 at 5:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
"I realize not everyone "gets" that or is willing to step into the 21st century. But, please don't drag the rest of us down to the hole that you're in."
Now now, why did you have go and get personal? Nobody is dragging you anywhere, you're trying to convince us over to your way of life. I'll answer that for you. It's a typical human reaction to make the other side of an issue look bad when they feel their side is losing or they feel threatened. They begin to attack the credibility and personality of their opponent in an attempt to drive attention away from themselves. The Liberal media is real good at this, as are the "Independents" who are really just liberals that have been rejected by their own and are hiding behind a different name.
Yes, there are thousands of alternatives for those things you listed for those who want and need them. Some of us prefer to use/consume natural, organic, non-man made products that one way or another were manufactured using natural resources in one form or another.
Amazing what you can find out about people these days, pedal faster hole dwellers, were almost there.
January 23, 2011 at 8:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
I heard the goose shoot didn't get the other three teams to sign up so the event was a bust. One kid that might have made a team got himself shot sitting out goose decoys out by Americus. The great white hunter that shot him could have formed another team but he's in prison for killing a hunter. Another team could have been that man who took his kid and bro hunting at John Redmond Reservoir last December but they spent all their money on caskets. Maybe if the event coordinators would contact Ducks Unlimited the rules for number of teams could be waived for idiots just dieing to kill. lol :-)
January 23, 2011 at 8:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
REWBA, I see the smiley face at the end of your entry, I see NO humor in it at all. I suspect other friends and family of the victims won't either. Very poor.
January 23, 2011 at 9:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
neighbor, So all of a sudden you get all sensitive about sensitivities and what not. And I always thought you were a straight shooter...hate what you fear and you fear what you don't understand...Hail, the way it aught ta be. :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBqEJN...
January 23, 2011 at 9:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
Neighbor: Hey, at least REWBA had the forthrightness to inform us what happened with the "Goose Shoot."
Remember? That is what this entire thread was started on and was supposedly all about..
How come you and others who were lauding this "event" so much didn't see fit to follow through on its outcome -- or, rather bust?
Too busy looking me up on Google?
LOL. And you accuse others of not being honest?
As an advocate for the geese, I won't comment on the hunter shooting another hunter hiding behind goose decoys or the hunters who apparently died on a Reservoir while looking for geese to shoot at.
It is sad about the kid, though.
Perhaps the "Father/Child bonding might be better served by teaching children how to swim at an early age, as opposed to putting a gun in their hands?
Guns aren't much good as life perservers.
By the way, I have a new proposed use for goose decoys. I would love to have a couple for my living room.
Geese are, after all so much prettier to look at than plants. ;)
January 24, 2011 at 1:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
Neighbor: OK. Instead of calling myself an Independent, I will label myself a "hybrid." How's that?
What is a hybrid?
Liberal on most social issues, conservative on most government spending, giveaway programs and tax dollars to kill animals.
Some people here seem to like or need labels, don't they? "Liberal New Yorkers," "Liberal Media," "PETA." "HSUS scum."
Personally, I don't much like labels due to their limits and pigeon holing. I don't believe labels serve wise, insightful, expansive or truthful purpose other than to slam others, who for whatever reason (usually with some prejudice) we have decided we don't like.
I don't care whether I am liked or not on this site. If I did care, I never would have posted the first comment blasting an article promoting a goose hunt.
Being liked, being popular or even being part of a comfortable group don't seem like things that should govern or necessarily guide our lives.
What is important (I believe) is seeking truth and when finding it, standing up for what is wise and just.
That may sound simple, but it is not.
Had you really done your "research" on me, you would know my personal motto is:
"There is a little bit of truth in everything and the whole truth in nothing."
That is not a philosophy that lends itself well to labels or "group think" of any kind -- whether political, social or even religious.
By the way, do you know who was the greatest "liberal" of all?
Think about it. ;)
January 24, 2011 at 2:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
1. I never lauded this event.
2. I didn't spend 30 seconds looking you up, the internet makes that real quick and easy.
3.I wasn't the one that denied being involved in anything.
4. Go buy the decoys, then for once you would be helping to pay for wildlife conservation rather than running off at the mouth or keyboard about it.
5.Hybrid=hypocrite. You can't be liberal on social issues while being conservative on government spending. It takes government money to pay for and run liberal social programs. Can't have both.
6. I don't think of any Liberal as being great.
January 24, 2011 at 6:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
EsqEB (anonymous) says...
PattyA,
What REWBA conveniently left out was the kid that was shot by a poacher(not a hunter) happened several years ago and the event with the three people drowning happened back in December, both events having nothing to do with the Goose Shoot. Leave it to bleeding heart liberals to make fun of the deceased and use their deaths to support their pointless propoganda and misguided causes.
Anyone go out and hunt this past weekend? We killed a 6 man limit of Canada Geese within 45 minutes of setting up, and then started dropping snows for fun on Saturday. Sunday morning just two of us went out, and got ours in about 3 or so hours. Made it back in time to watch the games and make a little goose stir fry for dinner.
January 24, 2011 at 8:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
EsqEB (anonymous) says...
Everyone,
Do not confuse the Humane Society of the US with the local Humane Society in your area. Your local Humane Society uses donations for pet rescue and care. The HSUS is a fringe political action group that misleads it's donors into believing thay are helping local animal shelters, when in reality they use the money on anti-hunting propaganda, to fatten their own wallets, and in general take advantage of peoples good will. No different than other scammers.
Give your money to your local shelter, to avoid having it go to people like PattyA. Make her get a real job, instead of being paid to come onto small town websites and spew her ignorance and hatred.
January 24, 2011 at 12:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
esq, you are right. that is why i said the hsus is a scam. they don't rescue animals, never have. never will.
you should always support the local humane society.
look guys if i wanted money, i would be all over the blogs whining. crying about 2 1/2 years of being sick. apx 2 million dollars in medical bills, and the awesome residents of this county would do everything they could do.
but that is not the whole story, the rest of the story is i have great ins. the ins has paid all of those bills,with the execption of 7000.00. and that is all but paid.
it is very easy for patty and hsus to bias facts, and play on emotions. that how they make money.
rewba, you should hang your head in shame. making light of jeremy and bo. shame on you!
January 24, 2011 at 1:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
btw, rewba, aka yy4u,
jeremy's body hasn't been found yet.
ya jerk...
January 24, 2011 at 1:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
Neighbor: >
One can certainly be supportive of human rights without crusading for the government to dole out millions to "welfare mothers" to stay home and have more babies. Too many people depending upon (or, in some cases ripping off) the social programs whose intentions were to "help" them. The question is, are people really "helped" when becoming dependent on government programs to feed their kids or keep a roof over their heads? Sometimes the "best" in people is brought out when their backs are against the wall and there is no one to depend on but themselves. I believe in human dignity and resiliance. I don't believe it is governments job to insure or keep everyone "happy."
>>
Guess you would have had problems with the man who said things like:
"Turn the other cheek." "The merciful shall obtain mercy." "The meek shall inherit the earth."
Then again, he was crucified.
January 24, 2011 at 3:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
EsqEB: "Propaganda and misguided causes."
Is that what you think teaching one's kids to swim by age five is all about?
Many thousands of children drown every year for not knowing how to swim.
The two hunters and child who drown on a Reservoir while out on a boat seeking goose to shoot at would most likely be alive today if they knew how to swim.
But, hell. Call it what you want. I understand the need to throw out labels here.
Better to put a gun in your child's hand than teach him/her how to swim because the latter is, after all, just "propaganda and misguided cause."
January 24, 2011 at 3:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
OMG
gazette moderator are you reading this? really???
January 24, 2011 at 3:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
IF YOU WOULD STOP POSTING TO THE PATTYA TROLL SHE'LL GO BACK UNDER THE BRIDGE.
January 24, 2011 at 3:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
EsqEB: Of course people should support their local humane society's or SPCAs. Its extremely important.
But, we also need a national organization with the resources and clout of the HSUS to advocate for animals abused in puppy mills, dog fighting, intensive animal factories or being rounded up and gassed in public parks.
HSUS works on all these issues and many more. AND they have been involved in some of the biggest animal rescue cases in history. Cases that would go way beyond the small resources of local shelters or rescues. (I am referring to cases involving large scale animal hoarding, dog fighting and puppy mills.)
I would agree that there are some large organiztions that do very little for animals despite having large coffers and slick PR.
But, HSUS is not one of them. They actually do a great deal of good with the resources they have.
Personally, I don't always agree with all HSUA stands and policies. But they are one of the very best animal protective organizations we have today.
Perhaps the fact that HSUS seems to stir up so much angst among some of the hunters here is testimony to that. Still, the goal of HSUS is to try and build bridges and find solutions to the real problems facing animals (or creating human/animal conflict) as opposed to just spewing out accusations and name-calling.
As for me, I don't work or volunteer for HSUS and certainly don't get paid to comment on a web site.
The Internet is a big place. Anyone can post anything, anytime and anywhere on here. That is why it is called the "World Wide Web." ;)
January 24, 2011 at 3:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
With all the negativity here, it seems appropriate to post something positive and thoughtful. -- An article inspired by Canada geese! ;)
http://www.cnjonline.com/articles/put...
January 24, 2011 at 4:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
Whoops. For some reason the entire article link didn't go through.
Hopefully, this works. Really nice piece.
http://www.cnjonline.com/articles/put...
January 24, 2011 at 4:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
EsqEB (anonymous) says...
PattyA,
I read over the HSUS website and your website, and I fail to see where they promote teaching children to swim. I referenced your and HSUS propaganda and misguided causes, you came back with a comment concerning teaching children to swim. You are using a strawman argument, rather than defend HSUS and your misguided causes, you say that I referenced teaching children to swim being a misguided cause. I never said anything such thing. Now, you are a liar in addition to being misguided.
Furthermore Patty, you have no clue as to whether or not those people taught their child how to swim. Even strong swimmers can succumb to drowning eventually. You again are spreading lies and misleading people to buy into your BS. You do it with such ease, I doubt you even really know you are lying. It's just second nature to people like you. I really think the only way you can stop lying is to shut up, but I doubt you are capable of even that.
January 24, 2011 at 4:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
EsqEB: You need to go back and read the posts.
On the hunting/drowning incident I merely commented that it was important for children to know how to swim.
You then come back the next day and accuse me of "propaganda and misguided causes."
I simply addressed your post today.
I also defended HSUS in another post.
Finally, you are right that even good swimmers can drown. But, that is usually in oceans or rivers with rough currents or undertoes. But, we're talking about a Reservoir here!
I would LOVE to swim across the Reservoir in my neck of the woods -- and often fantasize about it. That only it were allowed!
January 24, 2011 at 4:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
EsqEB: ".......and then we started dropping snows for fun on Saturday."
WOW! Are you a member of The Village People?
"Macho, Macho Man. I wanna be a MACHO MAN!"
Were you the cop or the Indian Chief?
LOL. Have to say it is fun and entertaining on here.
Who'd ever think one would run into famous 70's disco stars?
January 25, 2011 at 12:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
USDA Killing Millions of Birds: http://foodfreedom.wordpress.com/2011...
January 26, 2011 at 10:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PattyA (anonymous) says...
"Karma" -- or, Revenge of the Rooster:
http://www.digitalspy.com/odd/news/a3...
January 26, 2011 at 11:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )