Sound Off - Proposed liquor legislation
Wednesday, February 2, 2011
Do you think the Kansas Legislature should allow gas stations, grocery stores and other retailers to sell wine and hard liquor?
Reader poll
Do you think the Kansas Legislature should allow gas stations, grocery stores and other retailers to sell wine and hard liquor?
- Yes
- No
- Undecided
1550 total votes.
Post your comments below.
On the Rail
By Martin Hawver
We’re getting ready for one of those not-quite-earth-shaking battles in the Kansas Legislature, but one which is always entertaining to watch.
It’s expansion of where you can buy liquor—by law now just in licensed liquor-only stores, often the neighborhood mom-and-pop stores about the size of a house trailer, but more recently bigger, better-lit and the size of a basketball court—or two or three…
The proposal? Let other merchants—grocery stores, convenience stores, and such—get licenses to sell hard liquor and wine, not just the low-alcohol “grocery store” beer that is allowed now.
The battle shaping up pits those single-product liquor stores against sometimes giant retailers…think Walmart, Dillons and the chain convenience stores that keep popping up.
Don’t count on this change proposed by, of course, the grocery/convenience/gas stations to quietly happen, and don’t necessarily count on it to lower prices for wines and alcoholic beverages. But, count on the issue to spell the end of probably hundreds of those smaller liquor stores.
Why? Convenience is part of it. Kansans can’t, for example, put diapers, milk, coffee, dishwashing powder…and a bottle of whiskey on their one-stop shopping list.
Selling liquor to Kansans is a protected industry, and for the number of Kansans who would like one-stop party option, there are Kansans who don’t want that stuff next to the oatmeal or the candy bars where they shop. A second stop? No problem, they say. If you really want liquor you make the second stop.
The grocers would like a high-margin product to sell, and maybe some of their shoppers would like the chance to put a bottle in their cart.
Liquor store industry folks, of course, would prefer that if you want their products, you go to their stores, where they can tout clerks who know their products and can suggest what wine goes with fish, steak or, probably, dolphin, judging by the dizzying array of wines available to shoppers whose sophistication stops at red or white, boxes or bottles, cork or screw-top.
Is this a big issue? For consumers, it’s hard to tell. For liquor store owners, it’s life or death, or at least a reduced lifestyle; for grocers and convenience store operators, it’s a new profit center in their stores.
And, interestingly, the liquor at grocery store crowd is making the point that the additional profit from liquor sales may enable grocers in small towns to stay open. The liquor-in-grocery lobby says 82 mostly rural grocery stores closed in the past five years, possibly sending small town residents on 20- or 30- or 40-mile trips to get groceries, when the profits from liquor might have kept their hometown grocery alive. (Nobody seems to know how many liquor stores closed, sending those small-town residents on a field trip to buy liquor.)
Interesting fight coming, lots of people on each side. Legislators, who will learn that liquor comes from receptions sponsored by lobbyists on both sides of the issue, are right in the middle.
Syndicated by Hawver News Company LLC of Topeka; Martin Hawver is publisher of Hawver's Capitol Report—to learn more about this statewide nonpartisan political news service, visit the website at www.hawvernews.com
Hoochhawker (anonymous) says...
About those 82 Rural Grocery Stores that closed. ..
CLAIM: In 2006, there were 213 stores in rural Kansas communities. Since then, 82 grocery stores have closed.
FACT: Who put them out of business? OUT OF STATE GROCERS! The Biggest threat to rural grocers is out-of-state grocers.
A survey conducted by Kansas State University and the Kansas Sampler Foundation found that 40% of rural grocers said the biggest threat to their business is out-of-state grocers and big box stores.
David E. Proctor, Director of the Center For Engagement and Community Development at Kansas State University, wrote in his 2010 article "The Rural Grocery Crisis": "The most frequent, significant challenge identified by our rural grocers was competition with big box grocery stores. In the past twenty years, we have seen a tremendous rise in the number of big-box, national-chain markets. In addition, big-box wholesalers have moved into the grocery business, and now many offer large food sections as part of their stores. Rural store owners view these stores as competition that threatens their very survival."
In a 2010 report on the factors leading to why rural grocery stores are closing, Jon Bailey of the Center for Rural Affairs, concluded the following: "The advent of corporate, chain grocery store facilities in nearby larger cities and the relative ease in driving due to advances in vehicles and highways often make shopping at larger grocery stores more attractive, further reducing the customer base and the economic margins for small, local stores."
In Iowa, where just a few years ago they allowed the sale of alcoholic beverages in grocery stores, 43% of grocery stores in communities with less than 1,000 population, have closed. A leading factor according to Mr. Proctor: big box, out-of-state grocers.
None of these studies indicate that selling alcoholic beverages will keep rural Kansas stores open. But they do conclude that the biggest threat to rural, Kansan owned businesses is out-of-state grocers.
CLAIM: Kansas Grocers can't sell alcohol today
FACT: Yes they can!
Under current Kansas law, independently owned Kansas grocery stores may also own a liquor store adjacent to their grocery store.
The proposed legislation is primarily designed to allow out-of-state corporations to sell alcoholic liquor.
CLAIM: Grocery stores offer more variety.
FACT: The opposite is true.
Big-box stores (such as Wal-Mart and Costco), grocery stores (such as Kroger and Hy-Vee), and convenience stores sell a limited number of items and tend to carry only national brands. As these stores dominate the market and put Kansan-owned liquor stores out-of-business, the variety of wines and spirits available will decrease in Kansas.
http://www.keepkansasjobs.com/
February 2, 2011 at 1:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Buffalo_Breath (anonymous) says...
Like the mom-&-pop stores, but really ... Prohibition ended about the time your grandmother was born, and Kansas is still spending alot of time and tax dollars pretending to be some kind of righteous place that doesn't drink, all the while drinking more.
The real analysis, based on New Gov Sam's "core functions" line of thinking, ought to focus on the issue:
"Is this really something the State Government needs to be doing?"
Some sub-issues ....
-- Do we really want or need the State to babysit us and decide where and when we are going to grab a cold one?
-- Do we really want to PAY the State to babysit us, as opposed to keeping more of our money for ourselves and deciding, for ourselves, how to spend it?
-- Do we really want to burden businesses, small and large, with all the wasteful paper-pushing that comes with Government regulation?
(note ... this really hits the SMALL businesses harder, since they have to do it all themselves, taking them away from actually running their business and serving their customers, whereas the Big Box guys have flocks of lawyers and accountants and stuff to deal with the red tape).
As many parts of the Nation begin a serious discussion of whether we can or should continue the "War on Drugs", we Kansans are still thinking about taking our hatchets to a few saloons. Could be it's time to move on.
February 2, 2011 at 1:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
petergibbons (anonymous) says...
Hooch,
You don't think you can provide a better selection and better service than wallyworld or a quick shop? You must have no confidence in your business leadership.
You state that grocers can sell alcohol today if they own a store adjacent to their grocery. Using your logic of monopoly and protectionism, you should be against that. What does it matter if they change the law to allow the sale inside? You can't have it both ways. If it's ok for grocers or convenience store owners to own a store adjacent why not inside? Plus, from what I've read, your liquor store could sell other grocery items to compete. Grocery stores haven't put convenience stores out of business!
And to say that variety of wines will decrease and that will hurt consumers is just plain silly. Consumers will buy what they want and if you provide them specialized customer service, which walmart and boxes won't and can't, then stores will thrive.
LET THE FREE MARKET WORK!
February 2, 2011 at 2:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Hoochhawker (anonymous) says...
Peter
I have no doubt that I can provide better service and selection than wallyworld. The problem is competing with there pricing. They have 1000's of products to make a profit on. I have ONE.
If, these "out of state" company's get to sell my one product, they will mark it up 1%or 2% until they have put about half the liquor stores in Kansas out of business. What do they care? They have 1000's of other products to make money on.
If it's an "individually" owned grocery store, No, I don't care if he sells it inside or next door. The point of that comment is, the big box stores are claiming that 82 rural grocery stores closed down because they couldn't sell alcohol.
Yes. I would be able to sell grocery items. Have you been to any of the local liquor stores here in town. Where would you suggest that any of them expand to accommodate this.
Most liquor stores have been in their current locations for decades, and have no room for expansion. The only way a majority of current liquor stores could expand to add new, non-alcoholic products, would be if they moved. Since nearly all Kansas retail liquor-store owners are small businesses, this option is not an economic or physical reality- especially at a time when banks are providing fewer loan options to small-business owners.
And Yes, the variety will decrease. Currently the distributors carry items for 750+ liquor stores in the state. As these big box companies begin to put liquor stores out of business, then they will be the deciding factor on the availability of brands available for re-sale in Kansas.
February 2, 2011 at 3:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jasper007 (anonymous) says...
Another bad idea by "our government" and the BIG business owners. Vote no. Call your Representative, Congressmen. Hell. if it helps, call the Governor! Has everyone forgot about the economy? Why should BIG business be allowed to put our "mom and pop" liquor stores out of business? Does anyone know how many people will lose their jobs or their livliehood? I don't have those facts, but common sense should tell you a lot of people will be affected by this. The only answer, if our GREAT state of Kansas wants to enforce this is TO CONTINUE TO SHOP YOUR LOCAL LIQUOR STORE!!!!!!!!
February 2, 2011 at 4:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
landinkansas (anonymous) says...
I don't live in Kansas at this time. However where I live they sell wine & "Real Beer" in the grocery stores & convenience stores. Keep the hard liquor in the liquor stores along with beer & wine (usually a much larger selection). Do away with that nasty grocery store "near beer". Gives me a headache! Liquior store businesses thrive and people here don't drink more or less than anywhere else.
The grocery stores stock the normal assortment of beer and a limited amount of wine. Everyone gets what they want and the state gets the added revenue. I still visit my favorite liquor store regularly.
February 2, 2011 at 4:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
I never understood why the liquor store could sell premixed mixed alcoholic beverages but isn't allowed to sell nonalcoholic mixers such as plain orange juice. If I want a screwdriver, I have to go to the liquor store and buy vodka then go to the grocery to buy orange juice. It is just easier to drink Black Russians because the liquor store can sell Kahlúa. Kansas started prohibition and I feel that someone not from Kansas should make Kansas liquor laws so's not to screw it up as bad as Kansan's have. jmo
February 2, 2011 at 6:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
booker5m (anonymous) says...
Hooch after spending over 30 years manageing and working grocery stores I have to disagree on the varitey statement.Conventional stores carried a vast varitey and each year we were carrying more store brands. Now the Sams and Costco do carry a limit amount. You are correct that you are able to give better service and can take more time helping the shopper.
February 2, 2011 at 6:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
States that allow liquor sales at convenience stores still have liquor stores and those liquor stores get more liquor sales because the liquor store always have a better selection. Plus, those States also allow liquor stores to offer tobacco, mixers, party snacks and other items that people who are preparing to entertain adult guests are looking for. Kansas Law is stupid like that so all you can get at the liquor store is booze. You still have to go to the store to get the rest of the stuff needed for your party.
February 2, 2011 at 7:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
booker5m (anonymous) says...
Thats the part I never could understand. One owner told me he couldnt even have a coke machine on the inside or it would be considered by the drink?
February 2, 2011 at 7:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
I have family in Coldwater Kansas. Comanche County is a dry county and there are no liquor stores. They have bars today, but I remember the "Supper Clubs" where you have to drive to a county with a liquor store, buy your booze, bring the bottle to the supper club and pay the owner to serve your liquor to you. Crazy huh? The funny thing about that place is that I have watched all the county commissioners drink like fish, All have a bottle with their name on it at the Supper Club, but none will vote for liquor sales.
Henry would really hate that place. No liquor sales on Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday or Saturday. :-)
February 2, 2011 at 7:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
booker5m (anonymous) says...
I think I have it figured out who Henry is.This airhead came into the store one Sunday and began to give me crap because I wouldnt sell him beer on a Sunday. Told him to talk with his Rep. but just kept on trying to give me a hard time LOL
February 2, 2011 at 7:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Hoochhawker (anonymous) says...
Oh and another thing Peter..
Having a variety and good customer service only goes so far. What do you think happened to all the other "Mom&Pop" grocery stores and hardware stores that used to be everywhere?? Answer..The big box stores and the people that shop them to save a dime put them out of business.
All the customer service in the world is not gonna do any good if everyone wants to save a dime for the convenience of one stop shopping at Wallyworld.
February 2, 2011 at 7:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
booker5m (anonymous) says...
If they change the law just be more empty stores around the state. Just leave it like it is
February 2, 2011 at 8:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
The "Mom & Pop" stores that I've seen go out of business went out of business because they run off their client base with ridiculous mark-ups AND irritating personalities. A store that has decent prices and crappy service do fine as do stores that have ridiculous prices compensated by wonderful service and sales. But if a store has high prices and miserable people running it, it has to be the only place in town or else it will go broke.
February 2, 2011 at 8:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Probably the best lobbying group in Kansas is the liquor store owners. It doesn't matter to me WHERE I can buy, it is the service that matters to me. So I am for the sales of liquor and wine at convenience stores, but i will still buy from and count on my locally owned liquor store.
They know me and cater to me and that is a big deal to me.
February 2, 2011 at 8:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
HenryVIII (anonymous) says...
booker5m,
Nope, that wasn't me. It is pretty weak that places can't sell booze on Sunday. I'd even settle on going to Casey's to get 3.2 beer on Sunday if I had to. I also think any kind of store should be able to sell the hard stuff if they paid for the license. What is the point of these laws in the first place? Religion, that's what. With a preacher for a governor, I doubt anything will change in this red state. Maybe they should just turn the state house into a big church... Or, novel thought, maybe they should keep their religion out of politics.
'enry
February 2, 2011 at 8:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
WHERE IS HENRY??????????????????
February 2, 2011 at 8:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
SORRY, THERE YOU ARE, NEVER MIND.
February 2, 2011 at 8:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
HenryVIII (anonymous) says...
Ha! Beat ya by a minute, Steve!
'enry
February 2, 2011 at 8:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
I don't know how much I really care about this, but I think that if it's true that 82 grocery stores closed because they couldn't sell booze, that means there are a lot of Kansans with some really screwed up financial priorities. If that's the case, they completely deserve to have to drive that distance to get groceries.JMO
February 2, 2011 at 9:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
chrissylynn_2 (anonymous) says...
I personally wouldn't care if someone sold it out of a tent 24 hours a day 7 days a week. I mean if someone wants to pay for the appropriate licensing whats the big deal about where it can be sold? A person still has to be 21 to buy it.
February 2, 2011 at 9:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
truckerswife (anonymous) says...
It's always been so nice to go to the lakes in Missouri. Shop for groceries and alcohol in the SAME store before we head for our resort. Let's move into this century Kansas!
February 2, 2011 at 10:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
kansaslawdog63 (anonymous) says...
Vickie Vaughn (Create) for city commissioner
February 2, 2011 at 10:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Buffalo_Breath (anonymous) says...
REWBA ... Isn't Coldwater "Carry Nation" country?
Might want to open a whetstone and hatchet concession down that way.
Real Issues:
1 - Did Prohibition end in the 1930s? (yes)
2 - Does the State have the responsibility to coerce every one of its citizens into PRETENDING to be a Teetotaler? (no)
Sorry to Ma & Pa, but ... f'cryinoutloud ... see #1, above. Prohibition ended. Let us put our collective energies into something more productive than an imaginary state of temperence.
"A loaf of bread, a jug of wine, and ... what? of course not! Not in the SAME PLACE! ... and thou".
February 2, 2011 at 11:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Buffalo_Breath (anonymous) says...
Hep me! Somebody hep me!
Cain't spell "Carrrrrryyyyy Nashun!"
February 2, 2011 at 11:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eldiablo (anonymous) says...
On a more local level...
How about allowing liquor sales on Sunday and letting liquor stores stay open past 9:00 pm?
What an outdated, completely ridiculous, backwards, retarded law.
February 2, 2011 at 11:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
Watch out!!!! All we will have left in town is Wallyworld!!!!!! THEN they can set the price plus no additional jobs to fill the shelves with what they want you to buy.
Choice out the window. The Black Widow is about with her various legs pulling you into her web.
February 3, 2011 at 1:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sail (anonymous) says...
Do you want to buy at china mart for your adult bev....the lobby pushing this is rich...don hill dont sellout our local business.
February 3, 2011 at 8:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
Buffalo_Breath, No that hag was not from Coldwater. She was a divorced hussy from Medicine Lodge looking to have sex with a preacher man. Yes, she tried to justify her adulterous ways by pointing the finger at booze and drunkards but in the end she and her sinner preacher lover both went to hell for eternity.
Too bad the Republican party looks up to these kinds of hypocrites forcing everyone to follow their example with unenforceable laws and constitutional amendments.
If Kansas would have been a Blue State, Carry A. Nation and her band of goody two shoes would have been arrested for destruction of private property, assault with a deadly weapon, attempted murder and after a fair trial, hung by the neck until dead, dead, dead. jmo
February 3, 2011 at 8:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
TexasGirl (anonymous) says...
REWBA -- I have just the opposite problem from you in your 6:34 post. I'm generally a good Baptist teetotaler and stay out of the liquor stores, because there's nothing there I want and I couldn't find it if I did. But I do like to cook and would occasionally like to toss a bottle of red or white wine in my cart at wallyworld to make a nice gourmet dish. (The booze cooks out, ya know ;-) All the TV cooks say the "cooking wine" is far inferior and contains extra salt.
Funny story. Nearly 20 years ago as a young bride, I found a delicious looking recipe for amaretto fudge cheesecake. After searching high and low for the ingredients, I called my dear mother (Baptist preacher's wife) and asked, "What the heck is amaretto, and where do I find it in the grocery store?" She let out a belly laugh and asked "GROCERY STORE???"
February 3, 2011 at 8:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
All of the mom & pops who are crying about Wal-Mart putting them out of business were hijackers who never tried to give their customers anything. Low prices? The heck with that! Friendly service? Oh hail no! Jobs for locals? Why? Our kids work for free!
See what happens when your loyal customers are given a choice? They never told you what they thought of your ripoff store or your shatty personality. It would have caused you to be more of an arse than normal. They just quietly agreed with you until given a better option. You could have provided better service oand lower prices but that would have meant less dinero in your pocket. Now you get none. Life's a beach and then you die.
February 3, 2011 at 8:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
TexasGirl, That is a great example. Allowing liquor sales in grocery stores would save all the hypocrites from the embarrassment of having their church congregation seeing their car parked at the liquor store and being forced to sin by telling lies about cooking wine and what not. :-)
February 3, 2011 at 9:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
TexasGirl (anonymous) says...
Yep, REWBA, you're exactly right, I went to get that amaretto, and I was terrified someone I knew would see me! Seems pretty silly now, but it makes for a good story. BTW, the cheesecake was wonderful, and the remainder of that bottle of amaretto still sits in my cupboard.
February 3, 2011 at 9:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
marko (anonymous) says...
muslims dont recognized jews as gods chosen people, jews dont recognize christ as the messiah, baptists dont recognize each other at the liquor store
February 3, 2011 at 9:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
TexasGirl (anonymous) says...
ROFL, marko!
February 3, 2011 at 9:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
The liquor Maze in Strong City is next to Doug's Flowers and Gifts. Church goers who want booze (for cooking of course lol) Park at Doug's :-)
February 3, 2011 at 9:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
REWBA, no wonder you have no concern for our local liquor stores, you have stated you are retired military soooo you have the commissaries and P/X to do your shopping AND liquor stores. Only need us outsiders when you run out of something before the "run"!
I am NOT downing you, for yes, the military deserve. I have several friends who are retired military and one son, active. But when you mention prices, etc. that doesn't setin here.
It is very evident that you have no concern concerning jobs, but self. They may not hire great numbers but they are still jobs, jobs that will be lost. As we are a university town, we NEED every job there is out there for our people/students. Just as this smoking ban caused the loss of some of our bars, therefore jobs and others income levels to drop , this will have the same affect but over the privately owned liquor stores.
I do not own, work etc. at a liquor store
but can see with these so called "freedoms" what we will have lost in the process. Also, I am Baptist but upon occasion will buy a bottle and also attend a bar, so no, I don't down that tea!!!
February 3, 2011 at 10:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
i worked at a local liquor store for a while and had to laugh with the above posts.
One day a little old lady from a neighboring Dry county, came in to pick up her standing wine order. (every two weeks, she picked up 2 cases of wine) Mogan David I think. Upon loading her trunk with the wine she told me to take the empties, from the prior order sitting in her back seat and put them in the dumpster. When i asked the owner of the store about it he told me she didn't want the garbage men in her town to know she drank.
It would get all over her town.
February 3, 2011 at 12:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
apierich (anonymous) says...
I was raised by parents who were children of alcoholics so as kids my parents just wouldn't bring us around the alcohol section of grocery stores and only occasionally had any in the house to try to show that there is such a thing as resposible drinking. I will admit, because of this I am taken aback by seeing alcohol sold in grocery stores, but that includes the wine coolers and beer as much as any hard liquor I saw growing up all over. As an adult though, even when visiting family in Missouri and other places where alcohol is sold in grocery stores I prefer to go to the liquor store for the variety and quality that you just don't find in discount grocery, probably because I am more of a wine and mixed drink person when I do drink, which is very rare. I have also seen small towns whose local grocer goes out of business because the cost of the 20-45min drive does not outweigh the savings of big box stores, yet the local liquor store is the biggest business in town, surpassing even the local convenience stores in sales because of variety and even convenience. You can't get busted for driving drunk if you walk to and from the liquor store, and only get busted for public intox if you are causing a problem.
I really don't see how liquor being available in the grocery store will make a difference for the small grocers, possibly turning the small grocers attention towards liquor sales and into liquor stores in the end, but not keeping them open for the sake of providing a place for people to buy groceries.
February 3, 2011 at 12:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
Yet another example of wasted time and money coming out of Topeka.
We need C-stores and grocery stores to handle liquor like we need truckstops to sell ammonia nitrate beside their diesel pumps.
I too worked at a liquor store in my younger days Steve. It was a store that had regulars that were so predictable I often times had their daily/weekly/monthly purchases ready at the counter before they arrived knowing what time they would be there. One was a monthly regular that always bought the same number of CASES of scotch and beer. He happened to work for the school district at the time. The first time he came in and I already had his order ready for him, he was horrified that I knew that he would be coming and what he would get when he arrived. He begged me not to tell anyone, afraid the rumor would spread around about him being a heavy drinker. He blamed his wife for consuming all the beer lol.
February 3, 2011 at 12:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
Come on Sandman, Give me a break! I don't have time to waste driving to Fort Riley or McConnell just to buy cheap booze or groceries. BTW, the Shopettes on bases in Kansas sell both convenience items and liquor. Doesn't hurt the Class 6 store either. Even back in the 80's when Kansans were arguing over liquor by the drink, I could go to the Base Exchange or the Class 6 and buy booze on Sundays. But the base is too far to make it economical for me so I buy everything I need locally. Even smokes.
February 3, 2011 at 1:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
BTW sandman, I have private health insurance AND a VA medical card. I don't go to the VA because there are Veterans who don't have health insurance who need the service more than I and I would feel guilty if one was behind me on the waiting list. See how nice I am.
February 3, 2011 at 1:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
TexasGirl (anonymous) says...
"Mom & Pop" shops, whether they be grocery stores or liquor stores, have a lot of sentimental value and play an important part in our history and culture. But anyone who takes on the responsibility of owning and running a business must understand that they have to compete to survive.
"Big Box" stores are simply a sign of advancing times. People are busy and want the convenience of one-stop shopping. That's why on-line shopping has become so popular, because we don't have to even leave our houses; a few clicks of the mouse and we're done.
My time, my money, and my $3/gallon gas are valuable to me. If you want me to make that 2nd trip, you have to make it worth my time and money. I'm sorry if that sounds terribly selfish; perhaps I should want to run all over town to get what I need in order to keep our poor ESU students employed. But I just don't, sorry.
February 3, 2011 at 1:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
My favorite "Mom&Pop" in Emporia is RuYi. I don't mind driving extra getting there nor does the limited parking in the area stop me. The Owner and his staff are always friendly and they carry merchandise that cannot be found elsewhere. I like J's carryout too! Great service and the best hamburger in the world. Ramirez's Liquor Store is hard to get into off 6th Ave if your going east but the friendly service there is well worth the trouble. A law will not change any of these people. They will always get my business.
February 3, 2011 at 2:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
TexasGirl (anonymous) says...
I've been to RuYi's; it is quite delicious, and not at all out of the way for me; I only live about 8 blocks from there.
They, as well as many others, have proven that if you provide a quality product at a reasonable price with good service, you can indeed compete in today's market. The ones that don't make it are the ones who dig in their heels and refuse to adapt to change.
February 3, 2011 at 2:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
RuYi has an Asian market a couple of doors south of their restaurant. Anyone who loves preparing Asian food should check it out.
February 3, 2011 at 2:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
LOL TexasGirl, that amaretto will never spoil. But girl, put a Texas jigger in a steaming cup of good black coffee and sip on it after supper. How can you not?
And stop buying that grocery store "cooking wine." Good grief, it's an abomination and full of salt. Be brave, just go pick up a bottle of red and a bottle of white, Darlin', and enjoy the great new flavors it will bring to your sauces and gravies.
How do you make spaghetti sauce without red wine? Alfredo without white?
February 3, 2011 at 3:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
TexasGirl (anonymous) says...
Yep, I reckon that amaretto is REAL good by now. I do have a very good family recipe for spaghetti sauce that does not use wine, but I just might have to add some to see if it gets better.
Actually, now that I think about it, when my grandfather passed down the recipe, he claimed to have left out an ingredient so nobody's sauce would be as good as his. I always suspected the missing ingredient might have been the muscadine wine he made from the fruit he grew in the back yard.
February 3, 2011 at 3:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
Yeah right, you "COOK" with booze. How much gets into the food?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V94H7K...
February 3, 2011 at 6:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
apierich (anonymous) says...
My husband and I have a few recipies that we use wine in, and we buy specific wine that we like for the flavor it brings out in it. I personally prefer fruity or "wet" wines and mead for drinking while a wine that has a definite straight "dry" red or white wine taste for cooking. My husband was actually commenting how dissapointed he was tonight that we didn't have the money to get some red wine to put in the chili he's making for dinner, but diapers come first.
February 3, 2011 at 6:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
apierich,
WOW ! I'd like the recipe for that chili if your husband needs diapers after eating it. :>) sorry.
February 3, 2011 at 6:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
REWBA, give you a break, why???? :-)
Steve_Corbin, I have heard of various affects chili may have on us humans but this is a new one.........PLEASE, don't make any until I have time to go to town but by the sound of it, I may not need to add any gas to the car for my return!!!!! :-)
Did anyone else notice the front page last evening, "Kansas Smoke Free Law improves Indoor Air Quality in Emporia"?
Wonder how much they were paid to state that? Also, "the results from the study support the data EDA used in support of the local ordianace" plus "This reduction in exposure to toxic tobacco smoke will result in improved quality of life and health outcomes for Kansas workers and residents" Just where was the "sample" taken? The morque????
Tis amazing, smokers can't smoke where
the previous ban said we could, but now they want to make "the good stuff" legal everywhere. What about liver damage, brain damage, loss of work PLUS the number of people that are KILLED each year because of an alcohol related accident? Oh! I forgot, money didn't smoke but they like their share of the "good stuff" and heavens, we want it easily accessible. Yep, that black widow is spinning her web.
February 3, 2011 at 8:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
HenryVIII (anonymous) says...
sandman,
People are allowed to own both booze and tobacco.
People are allowed to consume both booze and tobacco on any day.
People are allowed harm themselves with booze and tobacco.
People aren't allowed to harm others with booze nor alcohol.
People are allowed to buy/sell tobacco on any day of the week, but not booze.
People are allowed to sell tobacco in convenience stores and grocery stores, but not hard liquor.
Looking at the facts, it looks like tobacco users are still allowed to get away with more than the booze users. It's not fair. Heck, smokers can even smoke while driving even though it takes their hands off the wheel, distracts them from driving, and usually results in them littering.
'enry
February 3, 2011 at 8:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
HenryVIIII,
These have ALL been proven:
Booze can take over the mind, not a cigarette
Booze makes one much more aggressive then having a cigarette
Booze can make one fall asleep at the wheel, not a cigarette.
Booze can result in littering an item 200-300 times larger then an average cigarette butt.
Booze makes ones reflexes slower then a cigarette.
More women have been raped because of booze then smoking a cigarette.
More babies have been conceived because of booze then smoking a cigarette.
More STDs diseases have been past because of booze then having a cigarette.
Many STDs are not treatable that were past because of booze then a cigarette.
Having booze/sex only once you can come into contact with STDs.
Having booze and sex only once, you can produce a new life, not the case with having a cigarette.
More families become dysfunctional because of booze but not having a cigarette.
More physical abuse is caused by booze then having a cigarette.
More families break up because of booze then having a cigarette.
February 4, 2011 at 12:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
So HenryVIII, compare your list to mine, which has the most affect and it could be only ONE time of over consuming? I'll take my 20 cigarettes to a pack compared to you and 20 bottles of beer, especially the stronger "liquor store" type or hard liquor.
As I said, these ALL HAVE been reported and the related cause was booze or properly called "alcohol". I don't remember ever reading concerning having a cigarette cause any of these acts, but some of these acts may cause to have a cigarette.
February 4, 2011 at 1:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Thanks for the smiles you two.
While trying to search through the Gazette archives, (horrible experience) for something entirely different I came upon an article about the smoking ban where I said I would guarantee I would lose business and be closed within a year of its passing. Thank goodness I was wrong, (at least in my case). There have been closings, probably due to the economy more than the ban. The reason I say this is because like most intrusive laws, people here in Emporia just ignore them. Of course not in my bar, you can see the smokers huddled together outside just about anytime you drive by. But I would bet a case of beer to anyone that the proper signage, (as required by law), is not being posted at over 75% of the business buildings here in town. Now most of the bars are compliant in this, it seems bars and grills are the only businesses being checked. That's ok though, we like to see our firefighter friends every once in a while.
keep up the good work Henry and Sandman.
February 4, 2011 at 6:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
HenryVIII (anonymous) says...
sandman,
Here's is my response to your lil posts in the order they appear:
So, you agree booze is better than cigs then? Why do people smoke if it does nothing for them?
Not everyone. Also, it's already illegal to harm anyone with that aggression.
It's already illegal to drive while intoxicated.
It's already illegal to drive while drinking.
So? How does that harm anyone? Again, it's already illegal to drive while impaired.
Rape is already illegal.
Is that bad? Were you an "accident" or something? Last I knew, it isn't illegal to have kids.
It's not really the booze doing the harm, now is it? It's more due a consensual act between adults. (we already covered rape)
See above.
That's just silly. You can have unprotected sex without booze.
See above.
More children are directly harmed from SHS at home than booze. Remember, physically abusing your kids is already illegal. (somehow, smokers still get away with it)
I repeat, physical abuse is already illegal. It has nothing to do with the booze. I've been plastered numerous times and have never harmed anyone.
Maybe the people drink because they don't like their stupid family in the first place. How do you know the egg didn't come before the chicken? Maybe they were planning on leaving their family in the first place which is why they started drinking. Yes, I'm implying it was your fault that your daddy drank and left you. (Low blow! +15pts self-esteem damage) Just kidding, friend, I don't know your story.
February 4, 2011 at 9:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
HenryVIII (anonymous) says...
You see? It's already illegal to harm another person with alcohol use. Sure, alcohol may be involved in crimes, but it's not the booze doing the damage. You know the saying of "guns don't kill people, people kill people"? Well, the same can be said for booze. Booze doesn't harm people (accept the user), people harm people. Don't blame the booze; blame the idiots that break existing laws. As for SHS, it was once true to say "tobacco harms others". Thanks to our smoking ban, it is now illegal to do this. So, if a person is smoking at home around their kids, well that would now fall under the "people harm others" part of it.
The fact is, our digestive systems are able (perhaps designed) to process alcohol. Our lungs, on the other hand, are not meant to inhale smoke. People can die of smoke inhalation in a matter of minutes. It usually takes hours to die of alcohol poisoning. It's clear to me that putting smoke in your lungs is much worse than putting booze in your stomach. It's all a matter of quantity of each substance.
My question is this: Tobacco and booze are both legal products that can harm the user and potentially lead to harming others if misused. Why are the restrictions on booze stricter than those on tobacco?
Age: Tobacco: 18, Booze 21
Time: Tobacco: 27/7, Booze before 9pm and never on Sunday
Location: Tobacco: Virtually any kind of store, Booze: only liquor stores
While Driving: Tobacco: Light 'em up!, Booze: Not even passengers
Is it easier to overdose on alcohol? Sure. Have I ever overdosed on it? No. Why punish me then? Why let morons ruin it for the rest of us? Remember, the booze isn't the problem; the morons are. Do you really think where and when the alcohol is sold will prevent people from overdosing? I mean, you could buy the booze on Friday and overdose on Sunday. Why limit the sales of the product when it won't even help? It doesn't make sense. Well, maybe it makes sense to the "Bible bunch" because they think booze is the devil's brew.
'enry
February 4, 2011 at 9:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
Steve_Corbin, sorry not from this gal. Some things or people are worth argueing with or for, some not, this case is not. We all know what a poor planner Henry is, can't remember to buy his booze before Sunday.
I had some extra time on my hands, son out partying and I needed to go pick him up but lucked out, a friend brought him home.
Still amazes me though that this law has come up at this time. If it should pass, I sincerely hope you are correct in no loss of revenue for the local liquor store owners. So very glad that this ban has had little affect on you and Linda.
Will see you for some of that "devil's brew" and stand outside in that beautiful night air!!!!!! Have a good one!!!!
February 4, 2011 at 11:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
HenryVIII (anonymous) says...
sandman,
I'm not a poor planner. Planning or inconvenience isn't the issue; it's the principal of the matter! I can (and do) buy booze in advance for Sunday. So, what exactly does the Sunday sales ban accomplish other than rob the rights of the store owners? If I want to sell a legal product, I should be able to do so on any day of the week! As I said, if the store owner CHOOSES to be closed on Sunday, that's fine. It's their CHOICE. I said I would go to Casey's or the grocery store for beer if I could on Sunday. I mean, those places are already open every day. Why not let 'em sell booze of all kinds at any time on any day of the week?
Steve,
See? I told you that you'd be fine under the smoking ban. I know what I'm talking about. You just gotta trust me. ;)
'enry
February 4, 2011 at 2 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
GEE THANKS HENRY.
I think it may be the fact that 4 or 5 other bars closed and I'm getting that business.
I have always said it was a matter of private property rights. You know as in liquor stores. are private property just like bars and your government can do anything it wants to protect the public. Like Sunday sales. What? You don't think Sunday sales hurt anyone? I don't think allowing smoking hurt anyone, but our government decided different.
It is the government and they know better than you and I what is right.
So you are right, everything will be alright, you may get Sunday sales out of this, I'm kind of for that myself. But if the city says no to Sunday sales I know it's because they are looking out for all of our interests.
February 4, 2011 at 2:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
solong (anonymous) says...
Having the option of buying booze in either Kansas or Missouri I always pick Missouri for obvious reasons. It is cheaper, you can buy it at Sam's Club a lot cheaper, and by buying it there I don't have to stop at a liquor store also. Sure, a few marginal liquor stores will close in Emporia if changes are made, that is the nature of capitalism and a competitive market place, the strong will survive. There are still plenty of liquor stores on the Kansas side near Missouri.
February 4, 2011 at 2:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
HenryVIII (anonymous) says...
Steve_Corbin,
Survival of the fittest! You are now stronger for it! Congrats! By the way, I love the newer TV's you got up in there since the smoking ban. (long ago) That old big screen you had in the corner was lame. Any plans or specials for this Sunday?
I understand your point about the government regulating stuff that could harm us. I support age restrictions and DUI laws on booze. I'm just confused about how Sunday is different than any other day. No one has been able to explain thay to me. Is booze more dangerous on certain days of the week or something? Is there any proof of that like the evidence of SHS dangers?
'enry
February 4, 2011 at 2:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
REWBA, thanks for the hilarious Graham Kerr/Johnny Carson clip. Really enjoyed it. Was laughing so hard from that clip then I read Steve's comment on the diaper and really howled. Thanks, both of you.
February 4, 2011 at 4:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
apierich (anonymous) says...
Well Steve_Corbin,
I am sure you knew that the diapers are for our kids and not us, but there are some chili's my husband has made that make me wonder if having a diaper wouldn't be such a bad idea. Those chili's are banned from our house so if he wants them he must make them on "guy weekends" when he goes camping or playing in sports tournaments when he will not be around us and can only cause harm to himself and those who choose to be around him.
HenryVIII,
No one has really had a good reason for keeping liquor sales from happening on Sundays, only that it is a reminant of the old Blue Laws that tried to regulate morality. It's not that it really helps or harms anyone in states where they can sell on Sundays, I have always figured that they are still around is because they are a small law that would take time and money that most don't see as necessary to expend because they don't harm or help people. They are rediculous and I do believe that governing bodies need to do some house cleaning every now and then so that things are streamlined and there are less overlap and misunderstanding of the law. Heck, I do believe it is still on the books that you have to honk your horns when entering Lawrence, Kansas city limits to warn the horses and their owners that there is a car in town.
February 4, 2011 at 4:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
TexasGirl (anonymous) says...
REWBA, create's right, that clip was hilarious! I do miss Johnny, he was a class act.
February 4, 2011 at 4:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Buffalo_Breath (anonymous) says...
Blue Laws need to be removed from the books.
Their basis is strictly religious. For many people these days, there is no difference between a Sunday and any other day. We don't need to force somebody by civil law to observe a Sabbath they may not choose to recognize or observe.
I don't like the *Mart, and try very hard to avoid going there, but they're right on this one.
February 4, 2011 at 7:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Henry,
No specials this Sunday, I'm thinking maybe I'll raise prices to keep the riff-raff out, if you know what I mean.
And I am sure there are some studies somewhere that show Sunday sales to be harmful. Who are we to question that Henry?
The government knows what's best for us, and the people, a (MAJORITY) voted against Sunday sales.
I hope that someday you will learn to live with it, just as I have the smoking ban. We'll all be better off.
February 4, 2011 at 8:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
We need to quit catering to the holier than thou crowd when it comes to victimless crime. Laws aimed at regulating recreational intoxicants is the same as laws regulating religions.
Church goers get together with other like minded people and feel good about themselves afterwords. They are on a "high" and they say and do weird things. Some even fling themselves onto the floor, roll and flop around as if they were having a seizure and speak in incoherent grunts and squeaks. All sit facing a single leader who influences them to exchange money for mysterious favors that will make the followers who pay feel extra good. They go by many titles including preacher, pastor, father, priest, chaplain, etc...but can be compared to a drug dealer in more ways than one and the church, chapel, temple, mosque, synagogue, etc...can be compared to a crack house too.
There needs to be regulations to prevent these jerks from advocating laws against me practicing my personal beliefs which makes me feel good. Isn't that what the bill of rights is all about? Personal Freedom?
End the "blue laws" and the war on drugs and save the individual taxpayers from the organized tax exempt.
http://www.drugsense.org/cms/wodclock
February 4, 2011 at 8:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
The ban on Sunday liquor sales in Emporia isn't that old. It was voted down within the past 14 years.
I guess only the holier-than-thou religious folk were the only ones sober enough to go vote that day. I mean, you know how religiously-based our society has been in the past decade and a half........
February 4, 2011 at 9:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
oh4theluvof, You know I only wrote all that to get you to say something funny. Religious folks sober....that's a good one. lol
February 4, 2011 at 10:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
Sorry, REWBA. I was actually responding mostly to apierich and a little to Buffalo_Breath because they seem to think that this is a 100+ year old law.
Oh, and I was making a jab at Henry because he thinks religious people made this law. I guess I parroted one of your lines since Henry has said basically the same thing on past threads and yours was the last post I read.
February 4, 2011 at 10:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
Laws prohibiting the sale and consumption of alcohol were pushed through state then national legislatures by "holier than thou" church freaks who are totally out of touch with reality. These jerks like to point their crooked fingers at people outside their circle without looking in the mirror at themselves. Look at the leader of the temperance movement. Carry Nation was an ugly married woman who lusted after a preacher man. She justified her adulterous ways by pointing out that her husband drank alcohol. Her diversionary tactics worked on the simple minded church goers who followed her by destroying private property and demanding public laws banning booze nation wide. Outlawing booze removed all law abiding citizens from the the distribution and sales of alcohol in the U.S. leaving only criminals, crime, murder, poisoning, greed and corruption in their place. The church paid no tax towards enforcement and the taxes previously received from the legal sale of booze went away while the criminals became wealthy beyond belief. These criminals were able to buy politicians and police while honest hard working American were taxed to enforce the unenforceable. God saw what she and her followers did and all the blood of their victims were on them. They are still rotting in hell for their lust and the laws they pushed for were repealed and taxes on booze goes to help the innocent.
Centuries ago the Europeans decided that these religious freaks were nothing but trouble and laws were enacted to prohibit their practice outside the walls of their church so they sailed to America and continue their trouble making here in the name of their bastard child of an adulterous god. One day Americans will open their eyes and prohibit these troublesome practitioners of the devils work so they will go somewhere else to practice their self serving judgment of others elsewhere and leave free men to pursue happiness the way the creator intended.
February 5, 2011 at 7:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
GOOD ONE o4theluvof !
February 5, 2011 at 7:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
apierich (anonymous) says...
oh4theluvof, I do still believe that the root of the blue laws and prohibition of liquor sales on Sunday as based in that 100 year old law and the continued belief of some as well as those who see no point in it either way so rather than voting against it they just go with the flow. Yes, there do need to be more who don't agree with a law to get out there and vote for their beliefs and ideas, but if you don't vote, your voice can not be heard. If you can but don't vote, you don't have a reason to complain, whether it is about the person or thing you voted for or against. If you do vote you have every every reason and right to be heard.
14 years ago there was a vote in Emporia for no Sunday liquor sales, but why? Perhaps it's because the state took it off their books and said it was something to be legislated at the county or city level and left to the people of the communities to decide for themselves. Emporia decided no, I moved in long after that (and wasn't even old enough to vote when all that was going on anyway) and good for them. The majority of people who got up and voted made their opinion known and it was followed through.
I don't care if liquor is sold on Sunday's, it's a non-problem either way to me. I can get hit by a drunk driver on Sunday just as well as any other day, I really don't see how the sales make a difference and have a hard time believing any study given to me by one side or the other that only includes what supports their side. Those who believe they should not buy or consume alcohol on Sunday's should practice their self-control, regardless of their religion or lack of. I don't think I should drink regularly, so I don't, and if someone can't help themselves that is their problem they need to take care of. Regulating the many to "save" the few does not work. I rarely believe in "all or nothing" situations, but this is one that if it's not going to make a difference if it is allowed then why? Restricting sales on Sunday's does not stop the alcoholic, it only makes them plan ahead. It does not stop the kid from getting their first drink of beer or liquor, it at most will delay it till the next day. The only thing I really see it doing is putting one more thing on the books that can be fined and use money for enforcement as well as a day that the liquor store owner has to take off.
February 6, 2011 at 1:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
apierich,
I don't disagree. There were valid points brought up by both sides when it came up, and I could see both of them. As a non-drinker, I personally have no investment in it. I believe that I abstained from that vote to allow those who care make the decision because I could see the points made about kids on weekend visitations with an alcoholic parent and I could also see the point about the half-drunks driving 99 S to Olpe to get some more to get all the way drunk.
Ultimately, though, I've come to understand that the local liquor store owners wanted the day off and didn't want any competitor to get one up on them, so several of them pushed for it. If I had realized that angle at the time, I probably would have voted to allow it. However, I didn't know that side of it.
Yes, Henry, I said that I would have voted for the free market system.
February 6, 2011 at 9:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )