The 2012 city general fund budget as it stands today includes less police officers and firefighters, less snow plowing, no raises for employees and burning up $1 million in cash reserves.
It does not include a property tax increase.
If the city leaders decide to keep taxes the same and try to have a balanced budget, then drastic cuts could be made, such as closing the David Traylor Zoo, closing Jones Aquatic Center, closing the Emporia Municipal Golf Course and laying off several city employees.
After three months of working on it, the Emporia City Commission has two more weeks to make several difficult decisions for the 2012 budget. At a study session Wednesday, commissioners weighed the unpleasant options. No decisions were made beyond talking about it again Monday morning.
The proposed budget includes a $1.06 million deficit and cash reserves of 10.2 percent, which is less than the usual 15 percent reserve rate. According to the proposed budget, the city would bring in $17.73 million in revenue in 2012 and spend $18.79 million.
As a result, the city’s cash balance would shrink from $2.57 million at the end of this year to $1.51 million at the end of 2012.
Commissioner Joel Phipps said he is not comfortable with spending $1 million dollars more than what was brought in. He said he wants a balanced budget with no deficit. Though not necessary coming out in favor of it, he floated the idea of a 3 mill tax increase.
“All five of us said we had no interest in raising property taxes unless it’s a situation that’s unavoidable,” Phipps said. “Is it now unavoidable? I don’t want to increase property taxes anymore than the next person, but I don’t like the idea of a $1 million budget. That’s a slope we don’t want to be sledding down.”
While it’s not their first choice, Mayor Kevin Nelson and Commissioner Bobbi Mlynar said they now may be open to a small tax increase to reduce the deficit.
Commissioners Rob Gilligan and Jim Kessler said they were less inclined to vote for a property tax hike and employee layoffs when there is money sitting in reserve.
“The reserve funds exists for these years,” Gilligan said.
Pick up the Thursday Emporia Gazette for the full story.
slimbolen99 (anonymous) says...
Oh man, I can't wait for the comments on this one.
August 10, 2011 at 2:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
slimbolen99 (anonymous) says...
"If the city leaders decide to keep taxes the same and try to have a balanced budget, then drastic cuts could be made, such as closing the David Traylor Zoo, closing Jones Aquatic Center, closing the Emporia Municipal Golf Course and laying off several city employees."
Oh my. The fear mongering begins.
How about SELLING the Jones Aquatic Center and the golf course? Someone would buy them, and probably do a pretty decent job at running them.
August 10, 2011 at 2:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
netloafer (anonymous) says...
You can see where this one is heading. That and the potential for 9 mills from the county is going to be something to behold. May bhe bloodletting begin!
August 10, 2011 at 2:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Oh heck, go ahead and raise the property tax.
That's not going to hurt anyone, will it?
We know it won't hurt the employees at the RDA, they got a pay raise. Sauder got his way, again. Any commissioner who votes for the RDA budget at 310,000.00 should not even consider running in the next election.
We know it wont hurt Zimmerman, he got a bonus last year.
Maybe the commission should go ahead and close the pool, and the zoo, and the golf course. While they are at it, close the library and sell off some parks.too. Any offers for the civic auditorium? Get rid of the airport, there aren't any more corporate jets here are there? Streets, let them crumble down to gravel, who will be left to drive on them?
Sorry for the rant.
I cannot understand why 5 seemingly intelligent individuals, who I know have all had to cut their personal budgets are listening to a guy making 2-4 times the average salary of most Emporia residents say the only way to make the budget work is to raise taxes. It's time to start laying off, and a good start would be Zimmerman.
August 10, 2011 at 3:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lena (Lena Bass) says...
you know I hope they don't raise the property tax, as people like me on fixed incomes, with no cost of living increase in sight, just can not do it much longer. they need jobs here, and a reason for people to come and build the plants and jobs. this is just getting a bit much for the regular people any more to afford.
August 10, 2011 at 3:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
chalkrocks (anonymous) says...
There has to be other areas to cut back. I will admit I have not combed through the budget but there has got to be other items that can be delayed or reduced. Doesn't the CVB get a huge chunk of change? What about not contributing the full amount to it? I don't know if anyone is "employed" by them or not but it seems like a good place to start. Their committee responsiblities are at least party duplicated with the RDA and Mainstreet Association. Also, isn't it kind of Zimmerman's job to attract new businesses to Emporia?
August 10, 2011 at 3:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
netloafer (anonymous) says...
It shouldn't be, but it's hard for politicians to admit that fixed costs are going to be the sweet spot in the end.
The golf course is going to be a non starter. I've talked to them about eliminating the subsidy and telling the management they are going to have to make it viable without taxpayers propping it up. Every time I mention it I'm told we can't eliminate "quality of life" things.
I think when all is said and done it's going to be either one of what appear to be the paths of least resistance - raising taxes or using reserves. Both, in my judgement, would be mistakes.
August 10, 2011 at 3:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Here is a novel idea for the commission.
And it was addressed by Mr. Phipps at one of their study sessions.
Why do the commissioners have to spend all this time on the budget? They are making $500.00 a month. And yet they are paying a city manager a pretty damn good salary to do what?
This is Zimmermans job. To run the city on the money that the commissioners allow him. He does the figuring on revenues and expenses, and let's the commission know where the finances stand
So commissioners, figure out what it takes to operate the needed city operations without tax increases and tell Zimmerman and his department heads to do it. PUT THE JOB OF CUTS TO THE DEPARTMENT HEADS, where it belongs.
And then if the job is not done right or they can't seem to do it with the money budgeted, get rid of them, and find someone who CAN DO IT.
I don't know if the city manager is on a yearly contract, I just know he should be.
August 10, 2011 at 3:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
lena,
I am not on a fixed income, but know many who are. And I understand your anxiety.
But do you honestly think any of our local politicians care about Lena? Or anyone else on a fixed income?
This is more than a dollar and cents issue.
It has become a moral issue.
How can elected officials and others at the public fund trough morally defend their demand for more taxes?
Love this town and most of the people in it. But some seem to be hell bent on making it impossible to live here.
I hope for all Emporia residents sake, the commissions, both city and county just stop and let us know how they are doing the morally correct thing.
August 10, 2011 at 3:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Look around Emporia. There are a large number of elderly people here who are on fixed incomes. I'm one of them.
We folks on limited incomes have not seen a COLA raise in three years. Now the city wants more property tax? We must look like a bunch of dumb cows waiting around to be milked!!!
What happened to "make do or do without"? That is exactly what needs to be done. CUT THE CITY BUDGETS!!! What the hell, you just gave the manager a $2,000 bonus for crying out loud.
$100,000 for rocks and now you want to raise property taxes? SELL A ROCK!
And while I'm at it, my garden is dead because I refuse to water when a large portion of that usage rate goes for a sewer charge when the water is going into the ground! WHY CAN'T YOU GIVE RESIDENTS A BREAK DURING JULY AND AUGUST. Instead, you want more property taxes.
What must we do, take to the streets too?
August 10, 2011 at 4:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Besides, why should only property owners be burdened with supporting the city's additional needs?
Raise the sales tax. That way, it's more fair when EVERYBODY gets to support the city's spending habits.
There are some lovely new streets and curbs going in around central Emporia, all from a 1% sales tax. So there. See? Your sales tax dollars at work. Why can't it be that way for everything?
August 10, 2011 at 4:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
"Quality of LIfe" be damned. We are having a real fiscal emergency. CUT OUT QUALITY OF LIFE CRAP.
JEEZ!
Thanks for trying to convince them, netloafer.
Quality of LIfe. I'll be hornswaggled!
August 10, 2011 at 4:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Oh yeah, city of Emporia, what happens when they cut social security payments like they are talking about? Huh?
Oh, I seeeeee, you'll take blood instead.
August 10, 2011 at 4:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
well create, you were on a roll there with the 1st post. Then you mentioned sales tax.
That's the most regressive tax for the poor and people on fixed incomes.
We don't need ANY new taxes.
Government need less, not more.
Loved the picture of the rally, especially the sign that said jobs, not cuts. Should we go to the type of country where everyone works for the government? What kind of government is that called?
Less money to the government means more money in all our pockets. Money that we can spend on what we want. That in turn will drive an improving economy.
don't forget how that 'SALES TAXES MAKE EVERYONE PAY" was used a few years ago here locally. And the result is???????????
August 10, 2011 at 4:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tourguide (anonymous) says...
OK so you try to get a permit to hold a protest march down commercial street. WE can bring notice to Emporia like you can't believe. Be sure to include the PD & FIRE Dept that just got shafted. hang some for sale signs on the "ROCKS". I will contact the media in & out of state. Let me know when you get the PROTEST PERMIT, I will be right there !!
August 10, 2011 at 4:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rgilligan (Rob Gilligan) says...
I would argue your assessment that the 5 people that sit in that room and work to make these decisions don't consider the impact that a tax increase would have on citizens with a fixed income. If you want to advocate for no new increases I hear you and can support it, what do we do instead? Deficit spend into our reserves?
Many of you mention making "Cuts" but we have, and continue to do so. We are looking at less staff, less investment in our equipment and tools. What cuts do you want to see. As things stand right now we are about $1 Million away from balancing the budget, every draft has been online or is available at the city offices. Give me some ideas, some specifices, I am all ears.
August 10, 2011 at 5:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
umm my opinion doesn't count, but i have one question. in a city of the size of emporia, why do you need a city manager and a mayor? why doesn't the mayor oversee the cities budget? wouldn't that save some money, and duplication of services?
August 10, 2011 at 6:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
oh and please, rgilligan, do not waste any money on the fallen warrior scam!
August 10, 2011 at 6:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
" I TOLD YOU SO " !
There, got that off my chest.
Now, here is something else I will get off my chest. This is a no brainer, yet 5 supposedly intelligent people can not see it and it is right there in front of them.
Here it is, if they don' t want to spend $1 million in reserves ... then why not entirely cut the funding of the RDA, CVB, Emporia Arts Council, Golf Course, Jones Park and just balance the budget by doing so ???
Good grief the funding for just the RDA and CVB, alone would amount to almost $7,000,000 dollars alone.
The Fed says that they are going to hold interest rates at a low level until 2013. So why not defund the dead horses I mentioned above, until the time comes to work on the 2014 City budget and then see if " We the people " feel that the RDA,CVB, Emporia Arts Council, Golf Course and Jones Park actually City Funding or if they can become self sustaining, viable entities on their own expertise, initiative by marketing their so called expert abilities to others than the City of Emporia. After all are they not supposed to be businesses ? Granted they would lose their " Not for Profit " status, but I believe that they are so called " Not for Profit " totally for the purpose of not being taxed or paying taxes .
Besides don' t we taxpayers who fund these pieces of dead wood, have to pay taxes on the funds that we have been forced to donate to them . Taxes in the way of property taxes and sales taxes and income tax on the moneys we use to pay our taxes, that these entities take a chunk of .
JMO
August 10, 2011 at 7:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
rgilligan,
Please read my previous post/statement.
You people are making cuts to the wrong things and forcing the Emporia taxpayers to make further sacrifices/do without, while a certain few people get raises, and grow fat off of the suffering of the rest of the taxpayers, including those who don' t even live in Emporia, but only shop here or are passing thru and those people are getting fewer and fewer everyday, because of the high cost of living or shopping in a " podunk junction " of some 24,000 people . Hell, even native Emporians like myself, have gone to shopping elsewhere, because I can save some money over shopping in Emporia.
I will ask the question of you Commissioners, yet again, " Why do you think the biggest reason is, that Emporia is losing population, jobs and businesses and will most likely continue to do so " ?
Question to hard for you !
Well the answer is " Cost of Living and taxes " !!! Its just that simple.
And yet, instead of cutting spending/funding to the dead wood of Emporia, you would rather tax the people and keep funding the " DEAD WOOD " !
And the dead wood I speak of is the organizations, entities that I mentioned in my previous post.
Uuuuhhhh, " WAKE UP " !
August 10, 2011 at 7:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Damn, Commissioners, City Managers really piss me off !
August 10, 2011 at 7:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Rob,
My main point is that you and the other commissioners should NOT have to decide where to make MOST of the budget cuts. You and the others don't work at the P.D. or the F.D. or the water department or street crews.
The department heads do have to work in their respective departments. Let them decide what cuts are to be made and who is to be layed off in their departments. If service suffers too much, fire the department heads.
The commission should decide allocations to outside agencies however, and for several years now, past commissions have abdicated their responsibility to others for these decisions.
Now you and I, (and everyone else with a brain), all know for several years our water trash and sewer rates have all increased dramatically.
So much so that these department funds have built up huge surpluses. Such large surpluses that through some handy-dandy bookkeeping about 2 million dollars a year are transferred from these funds to the general budget.
All the while other commissioners, (not you newbies) crowed loudly about keeping our cities tax levy flat. WINK WINK ! Some one should have sued the city a year or two ago over this. Please don't tell me that city attorney has the opinion that these administrative transfers are legal, they may squeak by that test, but they are not ethical.
And I would state again if any commissioner O.K.'s the RDA's allotment with pay raises there will be hell to pay in the next election.
All the commissioners should really think about who in Emporia has the most power at the polls.
A few buddies of the RDA who got a couple of people raises this year, or a whole bunch of pi$$ed off city employees who didn't.
Now that I have raved at you Rob, I will print off the 3rd draft of the budget and come up with your million dollars. Be back with specifics later.
Steve
August 10, 2011 at 7:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rgilligan (Rob Gilligan) says...
Scarlett- In our form of City Government, (Commission/Manager) The commission is the elected governing body that is responsible for adopting a budget, reviewing and directing any ordinance changes, and making the decisions on the pathway of where the City Government as a whole should go. The City Manager is hired by the City Commission to manage the day to day operations of the City. The mayor is selected each year by the commissioners to serve in that role, though it is still a very part-time position. As I understand your question you would be looking at more of a Mayor-Council form of government in which the city would elect a full-time individual to serve as Mayor and direct the Day-to-Day operations of the city. This is a very common form of government in municipalities but not the one we have, and I would argue that the benefit of a Commission-Manager is that we can hire an individual that is trained and experienced in the management of a municipality.
Your second question was to not dedicate any funds to the AFWMF project. At this time we have not made any commitments either monetarily or otherwise other than extending our interest in seeing where the project goes. I understand your concern and we are well aware of current litigation against the group. If we were to ever entertain moving forward with the project, the successful conclusion of those issues would be a requirement.
Thanks for your comments and questions.
Rob
August 10, 2011 at 7:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
it seems the cities server is a little busy right now, I'll have to wait to give you specifics until it catches up.
August 10, 2011 at 7:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rgilligan (Rob Gilligan) says...
Methusla-
Thank you for your thoughts and comments on this subject and I appreciate your point of view. While your correct that cutting the budget for the RDA and the CVB would generate almost $700,000 of available funds, those two agencies are both funded from revenues that are regulated in their purpose and they cannot be appropriated to the General Fund, where we have the $1 Million deficit. While I would agree that we need to have a serious discussion about our future approaches to marketing and economic development, I believe strongly that we can't just cut those agencies. The serve a vital role in the continued growth and success of our community. Is there room for improvement? Sure we can get better at everything we do, but eliminating them is not the answer.
As to your point about the Golf Course and Jones park, the Golf Course would save us about $250,000, which would make a significant dent in the deficit, but we would have to weigh that against the other loses we would see as a result, including visitors for golf tournaments, fundraisers, (I can think of at least 10 organizations that hold very successful fundraisers at the golf course each year in Emporia) and the impact to the "hobby golfer" that considers that an important part of their Emporia experience.
As for Jones Park, we don't really have an option of not maintaining the space which is the main expense.
I don't want you to think that I am not willing to have those discussions, but I wanted to relay my thoughts and concerns and a possible different perspective of how we have to look at things.
Thanks for your comments and concerns and I look forward to hearing more thoughts.
August 10, 2011 at 7:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
ok rob, like i have said before my opinion doesn't count. but mayor not being a full time position makes sense.
August 10, 2011 at 8:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rgilligan (Rob Gilligan) says...
Steve-
Thanks for your comments and concerns, your make a very valid point, and it is one that Commission Phipps has made on more than one occasion. The Department Heads and our City Staff are much closer to the situation and can give us the best recommendations for cuts, but I feel that many of them think that they have offered the leanest budgets that they can. If we just make an arbitrary decision and say everyone cuts 10% more, I don't think that is a good way to manage. Each department is different and some have already taken significant cuts in the past and are as close to lean as they can. Some areas like Fire or Police are larger departments that could arguably absorb the cost easier, but at an impact to the level of service they offer. You may think that I am just debating in circles with you but I honestly feel that we are almost in that position. It the budget was $100K off, I am confident we could find the cuts to make. $1 Million is not something you can come up with by saving $5,000 here or $20,000 there. If the feeling of the community is "No Increases in Taxes or Fees" and "No Deficit Budgets" the only discussions we can honestly have are what Departments do we close completely. I don't feel like we have to do that. A compromise from all areas, further cuts, revenue increases, and some deficit spending would allow us to do our best to make the City of Emporia operate as strong as possible and not make drastic cuts that we may regret later.
I look forward to your more specific review and comments when you can look at the line by line.
Thanks,
Rob
August 10, 2011 at 8:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
In the meantime Rob, what did your boss do when expenses at his business got out of hand? He stopped the presses and layed off some employees. Sure it sucked for the employees that got canned, but it enabled him to keep the business open.
Considering our city population has dropped by 6.9% in ten years has city staffing shown the same drop? Couldn't it? Shouldn't it?
Could the police department do with fewer detectives, or a secretary?
Could the Fire department do without an assistant chief. Is there a secretary there to answer calls and type letters? There didn't used to be. Could the water department do without a new counter and maybe 1 office worker and make water payments mail or drop box mandatory. 1 person in the office to answer phones and new connection and shut off orders? Those who can't do it that way might just have to wait a little, so what?
One of the biggest expense the city has is it's work force. Like it or not, (and none of us like it), it may be up to this commission to cut some jobs and try to make do. No one wants to do this, but the majority of Emporia residents cannot afford another tax increase, sales, property or otherwise.
August 10, 2011 at 8:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rgilligan (Rob Gilligan) says...
Scarlett-
Your thoughts and opinions do count, you may not live in the city limits and pay property taxes, but I know you shop, and use services from Emporia and that contributes to the operation of our City as well.
Thank you for your thoughts.
Rob
August 10, 2011 at 8:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rgilligan (Rob Gilligan) says...
Steve-
You are absolutely right, businesses do have to make cuts, and rethink their processes to save money, and I do feel like we are doing that. I can't give your specifics but we have had decreases in staff by leaving positions open, and many of those have occurred over the last three years. The cuts we have already worked through include decreasing staff by another 6 positions. I am not arguing your point but I do want people to know that we are already doing this, and continue to do it.
Rob
August 10, 2011 at 8:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Well Rob, after a new ink cartridge and looking through the 112 page mess, I would say you're screwed. About the only thing you can do right now is decrease staff by about 20-25 more people.
Or a cut in some wages. And I don't mean the guys in the ambulances or the cops on the street. Let's see about upper management taking a wage hit?
Of course the easy way out is to just raise the taxes.
But maybe a mandatory additional cut of 10% to all departments, on top of what is already cut, should be the direction the commission should take. Would that add up to the million dollars needed? If it does, then do that and let the department heads find the cuts. Because if you do it, They WILL find ways to cut their expenses.
Otherwise the city will keep on going on and not much will change, except higher taxes and then lower population , meaning a lower tax base and eventually bankruptcy.
Don't think it can't happen here. There are towns and cities all over with less debt than Emporia that are doing it.
August 10, 2011 at 11:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Sorry I had no specifics, but then again I didn't want to deal with stuff like this either. That's why I didn't run for the office. Best of luck to all of us.
I think we are really going to need it.
August 10, 2011 at 11:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Rob,
Many of us would like to see the RDA/CVB gone. There is too much local interest involved in this group for it not to be corrupt. There are many organizations we could negotiate with and/or hire to get the job done and be accountable in doing so. Any other organization with their track would be fired by now. Their budget is not conducive of results. 2nd quarter corporate profits for this year were the highest ever, companies are looking for investment opportunities. We need bigger fish than ones in our pond going to bat for us.
I echo Steve's sentiments on staffing. Our local school district has already cut staffing to the core, and then some. Emporia is contracting with no end in sight. This directly necessitates cuts in our city employees since as with almost any business the #1 cost of business are employees. Burning up cash reserves to retain staff is just unemployment waiting to happen, its a fairy tale that everything will work out in when the economy picks up. Problem is the damage has already been, and no pie in the sky tourist agenda is going to work.
August 11, 2011 at 12:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bubbadleroy (anonymous) says...
If we all moan and grown about paying taxes, then why are we paying them?
Afraid the boogy man will come take you away?
Time for a tax revolt? I'm in!
The days of plenty are gone. The fat cats have got fatter and taken all that you plain folk can afford. Well,,,maybe not,, lets just raise taxes one more time that should do it, and everything will be hunky doory from then on.
Get real!!! My god it don't take a rocket scientist to figure out to quit spending more than you take in.
Why is it so damn hard to see that?
Don't be afraid you are going to hurt some department heads feelings.
Times are tuff and are only going to get tuffer. All the way from podunk city usa all the way to the white house.
I truly believe we are headed as a Nation to another great depression. So what you do now probably will not make much difference anyway.
What really pissed everybody off was those ignorant damn rocks sticking up in the air, and over a hundred thousand dollars spent on it.
That money had to come from somewhere, oh yeow, my pocket in the end. And not one sole do I know wanted them, or thought we needed them, except those that profited from them. Beating a dead horse again. I almost want to puke when I drive by them. A sixth grader could have designed something better.
August 11, 2011 at 1:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Pingeon (anonymous) says...
Dept heads will always tell you they have cut to the bone and can't go any farther. They know that if they don't spend the money they are allotted this year, they won't get as much next year. As Steve said, if you make them cut their budget by x%, they WILL find the areas to cut it. Politics and the good 'ole boy system seem to be at play here. Revenue has decreased. It's time to decrease expenses to match, not raise taxes to increase revenues.
August 11, 2011 at 1:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Rob,
I am confused about something on the budget sheets and it has to do with my business, maybe you can give me the skinny. It has to do with the private club liquor tax.
By law the city has to spend a third on alcohol programs, and a third on special parks projects. The revenue shows a budgeted 75,000.00 revenue. Is that the yearly total? Because if it is, the special alcohol fund shows spending some cash reserves+ appropriations of 80,000.00 for the alcohol programs. Then the 75,000.00 is shown again as revenue on the special parks budget.
My question, is the city receiving 225,000.00 per year in total liquor tax dollars or are these expenditures coming from the G.B?
August 11, 2011 at 7:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Well, you all can have at it, I am done trying to suggest things to a group of people who are undoubtedly influenced by a small factiion of people, who believe that they are right 100% of the time and are so good at what they do or believe, they believe themselves to be " Gods " among men .
I am going to concentrate my efforts on trying to survive the total " downfall " of Emporia, Kansas .
The City has been operating in a " deficit budget ", spend and tax mode for so long, they don' t know how to operate any other way.
Simple truth is Emporia can not afford to compete with Cities that have a larger jobs and tax base nor can Emporia afford to continue to fund organizations to the tune of approx. $1,000,000 + dollars per year and not see a substantial return on its investment.
Simple version, Emporia cannot continue on its present course or it is going to hit an iceberg and sink.
So I am done worrying about Emporia and concentrate on being the first one in the lifeboat, when the H.M.S. EMPORIA hits that inevitable iceberg and sinks.
August 11, 2011 at 8:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Steve C., my friend, I think that you and I both know that you are wasting your time and breath .
August 11, 2011 at 8:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
O.K.
Knowing the mess you newbies walked into from prior years,
Here is what i would like to see;
1. Do not give the rda the full 310 K they are requesting. City employees are not getting a raise, neither should the rda. Everyone needs to share the pain.
2. BESIDES the cuts already done, cut each department budget from 7.9% to 10%, or whatever it takes to come to a balanced budget. Let the department heads do their jobs. If service suffers, so be it.
3. Spend the reserves that you have already decided on spending, that's what they are for.
3.Then, and only then, if the budget is not balanced raise the mil-levy by what you need. BUT, You have a serious face to face with management and let him know this will not continue. And make his next employment contract contingent on the fact that 2013- 2014 budget will come down. This will insure that department heads submit smaller requests in future years and give them time to do it.
4. Serious discussions should be held after the budget is set on the legality of holding a election to rescind the Industrial development tax, and using that money instead for real infrastructure projects, instead of the RDA.
Discussions should also be held on if appropriations to the CVB should continue or if the city itself could do a better job of promoting tourism.
5. All the crowing about keeping taxes down , while raising utility rates to make up the shortfall in the general budget should cease.
And in future years these administrative transfers need to come down, and the money in these funds should be spent on the utility budgets they are collected for.
If the utilities bring in too much revenue then our bills should come down.
It has taken years of mismanagement by prior commissioners and prior city managers for our city to get where it is at now.
I know it cannot be corrected in one year. I honestly feel that the three new commissioners were elected by the people because we felt they could truly change the way things are done. A better way.
I guess we'll see.
August 11, 2011 at 8:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
We can see the value of a sales tax when we see the results of what 1% will buy. That paving and sidewalk project going on right now in central Emporia is proof positive. Men are employed, materials and fuel are purchased, and people in the area are happy to see the project because our sidewalks and streets and curbs have needed attention for a long time. Many sidewalks and curbs were crumbled.
So that is one result for you, Steve. You asked.
I still say a sales tax is better than a property tax hike because everyone will bear the burden. My neighborhood street and sidewalk project is proof positive. And don't forget, we paid for a new courthouse with sales tax.
August 11, 2011 at 8:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rgilligan (Rob Gilligan) says...
Steve-
As I understand it, and I will be sure to ask for more clarity, the drink excise tax of 10% is split 3 ways. 1/3 goes to Special Alcohol Fund, 1/3 goes to Special Parks Fund, and the final 1/3 goes to General Fund. I believe your math is correct that we are expecting to collect $225,000 in total from that tax.
Rob
August 11, 2011 at 9 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Steve C.,
Wash your mouth out with soap.
You mentioned the same thing I did, about defunding the RDA,CVB and using the sales tax for infrastructure.
Boy, when you mention, cutting funding or eliminating funding to the RDA,CVB for a couple of years or so, it is like taking a stick and whacking a hornets nest.
Which as I understand it, can be done, thru electorate petition to modify, changing how the sales tax is used. As long as the electorate/people petition for a vote and the majority vote to do so. As long as it does not affect the State sales tax in any way.
But, oh yea, I forgot, " I DON' T REALLY CARE, ONE WAY OR THE OTHER ". Because I am just a dumb ole no nothing taxpayer.
August 11, 2011 at 9:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
create,
Yes, it's great what that sales tax is doing. But wasn't it done before, without the increased sales tax?
Wasn't our infrastructure at least maintained before all these little step increases in government happened?
Didn't the chamber of commerce and Emporia enterprises bring industry to Emporia before the RDA,(now funded by tax) was started?
Did our hospital emergency room work before express care and the county health department?
Did our city entrances look just a little better before the rocks?
Didn't our government just work a little better before it got so big?
Once you give em a penny you'll never get it back.
You mentioned the courthouse.
Let's discuss one of the biggest white elephants in Kansas.
It got paid off early, big deal!
Now we have two courthouses to fill with employees and heat, cool and maintain, not to mention the lost property taxes of the buildings they tore down to build the new one.
In case you missed it the county is already saying they want to keep that sales tax active to Help pay for projects.
I have had out of town people comment on how they wished their courthouse was so fancy.
As Lyon county is 89th out of 105 counties on median wages, wouldn't it have been financially smarter to construct a metal building, with concrete floors instead of a 18+ million dollar showplace?
I've worked in government and I can state from experience it will NEVER CUT spending until you take the money away and force them to cut.
It SHOULD BE the property owner who has to pay for these services. You are fortunate enough to own property.
It is also up to the property owners to keep a lid on spending and taxes with our involvement in the electoral process.
Let's stop taking the easy way out and sloughing it off on those less fortunate through a sales tax. Tell you city, county,state and fed "enough" !
August 11, 2011 at 10:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
railroadhorn (anonymous) says...
Jeremy Shapiro and Rob Gilligan, please go to Google and type in "word usage less fewer" In your lead on this story Jeremy it should be FEWER police. And Rob in your first post here both of your uses were wrong. I had to get that off my chest. Two Gazette employees who don't use the English language correctly! It's probably because all your editors have left the paper!
On the issue of tax increases, deficit spending and spending cuts I have this to say: Cut more positions out of your workforce. I'm with Goodolboy on this one. 6 positions cut is not enough for the problem we're in. And make the department heads cut the staffing.
FEWER employees please! Followed by a modest tax increase. I'll gladly pay the extra taxes if the city would act responsibly and make some deep cuts like the school district did. I am not in favor of any deficit spending. Bob Agler was right last year and he's right this year too.
August 11, 2011 at 10:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
chalkrocks (anonymous) says...
Rob--
Really anyone who knows can answer this but I like the fact that a commissioner takes the time to get on these boards and answer questions from the public.
Anyway, can you explain why the funds used for the RDA and CVB are regulated to be used specifically for that purpose and how did that happen? It seems that you are saying that we are stuck with those agencies regardless of whether or not they are productive or whether or not the city has better use for the money allocated to them. What can we do to change this guaranteed allotment?
August 11, 2011 at 11:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
chalkrocks,
In case Rob doesn't I will.
The CVB budget was enacted by the commission and placed a tax on motel rooms. A bed tax if you will. This money (6% I think) must by state law be used for tourism/ convention promotion. The city contracts this job out to the CVB.
IT DOES NOT HAVE TO.
The tax money going to the RDA was voted for by the voters, way back, and just recently approved, (again by the voters) for a longer term Until 2025 I believe. Again by state law it has to be spent on development purposes only. And once again the city contracts the work out to the RDA.
IT DOES NOT HAVE TO.
There has been some talk about the legal issues of holding another election to rescind the last vote on this. Don't know if it is possible, checking.
The way some on city staff interpret state laws, I would argue that using the RDA money for real infrastructure repairs such as sewer, utilities and streets would fall into that wide open catagory of
'INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT"
But then again I am not friends with or on the board of the RDA.
August 11, 2011 at 12:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
I also appreciated Rob chatting with us on here.
But he has probably been advised to stop it.
August 11, 2011 at 12:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
If you go to the Gazette chats with the city manager you can read his response to my question on this. His two points were
We give them the money and don't micromanage how it is spent.
The reason the RDA gets the money is because that is how it has been done since 1994.
Not very good answers to my question, but I didn't really have high hopes when I asked it.
:>)
August 11, 2011 at 12:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
chalkrocks (anonymous) says...
Steve--
So if I am understanding correctly, the CVB is funded solely by a 6% tax on hotels? So if we do away with the CVB the hotels can lower their costs by the 6% tax? Do you happen to know how much is collected yearly from this hotel tax? And what/where the difference if any either comes from or goes to?
Also, the RDA is funded solely by the sales tax increase? What are the surpluses or deficiencies from that tax? What happens to the "extra" money if it does not go to the RDA?
August 11, 2011 at 1:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
No Steve, it wasn't done before the increased sales tax. That's why all the crumbling sidewalks and curbs and streets full of potholes. 9th Avenue is a major thoroughfare too.
No, our infrastructure was not maintained. That's why we have had all these flooded storm drains and messed up water pipes. They only fixed the emergencies. But maintain? No.
As far as the RDA is concerned, yes, get rid of them. BUT if so, the Chamber better do its job, and not act as just some kind of fancy tourist bureau. The Chamber itself needs to act much more than it has been, but could it be that is why RDA took over? Chamber has been a useless outfit for quite some time.
I don't know why Express Care was instituted. Just becuase others do it? That's my guess. Anyway, it seems to be a waste.
You say, "Now we have two courthouses to fill with employees and heat, cool and maintain, not to mention the lost property taxes of the buildings they tore down to build the new one."
Steve, you need to take a tour of the old courthouse before you say that. It's right across the street from you. It's not filled with employees. What buildings did they tear down? Weren't they falling down to begin with? That part of Commercial Street looked like hell. Besides, how much property taxes were lost in view of how much more gets done at the new courthouse? Have you seen the dockets lately? Lots and lots of criminal activity in Lyon County apparently. We are, after all, the county seat. I support the new building.
Why do you say "big deal" that it was paid off early? We should be proud of that, especially because it was done with everybody's tax dollars, not just property owners. Methinks you'd be bitching about it otherwise.
Why don't you work in a hot as hell metal building with concrete floors? What a crappy comment to make.
No, I don't mind the county using sales tax to pay for projects, as long as we see what projects and that the money is not just getting shuffled around fraudulently.
I've worked in government too, Education, and I've seen how schools can cut back and cut back and cut back until teachers are reaching far into their own pockets to pay for things the government won't. Don't even tell me otherwise because I KNOW THAT FOR A FACT AND I HAVE THE RECEIPTS TO PROVE IT, MANY YEARS WORTH.
Boy, you are in a nasty mood.
August 11, 2011 at 1:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
moderator (anonymous) says...
Chalk-
Steve is right, Kansas Statue (See here: http://kansasstatutes.lesterama.org/C...) regulates the use of a "Transient Guest Tax" or bed tax. Emporia, just like most other communities levy's this tax as a way to generate funding for promotion and marketing of the City. While this revenue understandably fluctuates each year we are expecting to see the total receipts on the tax be roughly $400,000 in 2011 and 2012. These funds are controlled by the City Commission and the CVB through its managing agency the Chamber of Commerce request funding each year for it's programs. Any excess in revenues collected are held in that fund for future use.
August 11, 2011 at 1:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
sreve, you are probably right. rob was probably told to stop it.... it was nice to get a reply from a city commish. i do wish county commish scott briggs would at least return my phone calls! grrrr
August 11, 2011 at 1:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
create? i've got 'maters.... want one? : )
August 11, 2011 at 1:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
moderator (anonymous) says...
Chalk-
As for the RDA funds, the tax was initially passed in 1994 as part of the community effort to recruit a Cessna plant here. Ultimately the company selected Independence, KS but we had the 1/2-cent tax levied for 10 years with the charge of 1/4% going to property tax abatement (meaning City General Fund) and the other 1/4% earmarked for "Industrial Development" In 2000, (I believe) the city once again voted to extend the 1/2-cent sales tax in the same manner. We also adopted an additional policy that allowed the repayment of bonds issued to fund the Jones Aquatic Center to be paid out of the industrial development portion of that fund. Those bonds are should be retired in 2014, thus freeing up additional monies in our Industrial Development fund. In 2010 the voters once again approved the extension of this sales tax for another 10 year period, extending it out to 2024.
As with other funds any excess revenues not budgeted are held in reserves for future use, the one caveat that I feel is important here is that the "reserve funds" in the Industrial Development fund also serve as a tool to help us finance projects like Land purchases, infrastructure development, and development incentives. That is why I feel that this fund above all is the most important to hold significant reserves in. I hope that answers your questions.
Rob
August 11, 2011 at 1:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
chalkrocks (anonymous) says...
Rob--
So how much income does the 1/2 cent sales tax bring in to the city for industrial developement?
August 11, 2011 at 3:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
booker5m (anonymous) says...
Gilligan if you are really serious about cuts, get rid of the biggest waste of money in the city. The Zimman and hire one that can get some industries in town instead of fast food joints!
August 11, 2011 at 3:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
I'm sorry you think I'm in a crappy mood, create.
Actually, I am not.
IT'S A GREAT DAY IN EMPORIA !
I thought we were just having a conversation about sales taxes and property taxes.
I will respond to your points.
The buildings torn down for the new courthouse were some of the nicest examples of turn of the century architecture in down town Emporia. All were occupied. If still there they would be bringing in a very conservative estimate 30,000.00 a year in property taxes.
I have not been in the old courthouse since the new one opened, but there is a lot, (A LOT) of traffic going through the doors on a daily basis, probably as much as the new courthouse.
There is not 1 county courthouse in Kansas, and maybe only 1 federal courthouse that are as extravagantly built. Maybe we could be proud of it if we weren't in the bottom 15 counties in Kansas on median wages. As for the court dockets, not too sure, but it seems our county attorney can't win a case on the 1st try. Maybe that's why the dockets are as busy as you say.
And come on, modern butler steel buildings can be insulated and air conditioned and are quite energy efficient. Much more so than vast rooms with 20 foot tall ceilings.
No I don't work in a hot crappy building, (most of the time;>() but I also didn't use tax dollars for mine, did I?
Your point on crappy streets and infrastructure is certainly a valid one. But let's stop and think for a minute.
If the tax dollars collected over the past years were actually used for infrastructure maintenance instead for pet projects and taj mahal type buildings and monuments and such, wouldn't we better off right now?
Did the city really need that water park out of town? Couldn't we have just replaced the old one where it was?
Once we didn't get the cessna plant and the 10 year tax expired wouldn't we have been better off spending that money on streets and infrastructure, and letting the chamber go back to work on industrial recruitment?
And finally, wouldn't that approximately two million a year transferred from our water and sewer bills into the general budget, gone a long way into paying for upgrades to our water plant and storm sewers and sewer lines instead of just hiding the real costs of our general budget?
Yes I still believe that we property owners should be paying the majority of the taxes for these things.
Someday we property owners will put a stop to bad government spending. Someday !
August 11, 2011 at 3:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Oh, I almost forgot. You can throw those receipts away after 7 years of filing your taxes.
And let's both cool down this afternoon with a Blizzard from dairy queen. 100 % of blizzard proceeds goes to some charity today.
August 11, 2011 at 3:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
I got my blizzard and finished only half of it. Too much sugar. But at least I contributed to that charity.
You say: If the tax dollars collected over the past years were actually used for infrastructure maintenance instead for pet projects and taj mahal type buildings and monuments and such, wouldn't we better off right now?
Of course we would be better off. I have no argument with you at all in this regard. You see? You really do agree with putting sales tax dollars to work.
I don't care about that water park. It's in the wrong part of town to suit my tastes. However, once it 's paid for, I'd like to have that tax share transferred to somehing more practical and less spectacular. We are not a spectacular kind of town.
As I recall, those buildings you refer to as lovely old whatevers were not in good repair. Love old buildings as long as they are in good repair.
Thanks, but I'll keep those receipts. They come in handy when I want to make a point or wave them under a nose or two.
August 11, 2011 at 9:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Those blizzards are awfully sweet. Never have been able to finish one. Sure wish we had a nice gelato store around here.
August 12, 2011 at 8:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Try this, Steve. McDonalds currently has mango/papaya or mango/pineapple smoothies made with yogurt. They're great by themselves, but since I can't leave well enough alone, try this: Get one or two of those and put in a shot (or two) of Captain Morgan Rum when you get home. Ahhhhh, this is a smoothie indeed.
August 12, 2011 at 9:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rgilligan (Rob Gilligan) says...
Chalk-
In very round numbers the 1/2-cent sales tax generates a little bit over $2 million in revenue per year. Of that $1 million goes into the general fund, a little over $400K pays the Bonds on Jones Aquatic Center, and then a little over $600K goes into the Industrial Sales Tax fund.
Like I said those are very round numbers but you can get the specifics in the 3rd draft of the budget. The areas you would look at are the Bond & Interest fund with the JAC line item and the Industrial Sales Tax Fund.
Thanks,
Rob
August 12, 2011 at 9:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Rob,
Have you or would you be willing to look into alternatives to the RDA/CVB if presented to you? There is no accountability that I can see in the current process, and with the decisions that have been made recently and the exodus of jobs in our area would it not be prudent to explore other options?
"thats the way it has always been done" is not acceptable.
August 12, 2011 at 9:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
booker5m (anonymous) says...
Rob the only thing the current city manager is trained in is raising rates! I have not seen anything he has done to better the city
August 12, 2011 at 10:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
chalkrocks (anonymous) says...
rob-
So, of that $600k, about $300k goes to the RDA correct?
Also, if say the Fanestil's deal gets all the way though the powers that be, would the other $300k be used to help fund that deal or does that allocation come out of some other pot?
I really appreciate you taking an active approach on these boards. I think it helps tone down some of the negativity in here. Not everyone is going to agree with you but at least you are giving the reasoning and thought process behind some of the thinking that goes on. I do not think most people realize how tough a position the commissioners are in. I am glad I voted for you and I knew you would be a great candidate for the job. Thanks for your time.
August 12, 2011 at 11:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
The current city manager said not too long ago that residential water meters were so old and likely not measuring water usage correctly. So new meters were purchased. Now we know those old meters were measuiring water usage to the city's credit, and not the homeowners because water receipts are DOWN.
Then the city manager got a $2,000 bonus.
You can't write fiction this good.
August 12, 2011 at 1:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Lets get down to the nitty-gritty here folks.
I will ask but one question and one is all.
You all need to ask yourselves one thing, and then think about it real hard.
Has the RDA, CVB, Emporia Arts Council, Emporia Main Street, etc., etc., City Commission, County Commission, City Manager done anything to lower taxes, any taxes, public service fees, in order to keep jobs, businesses or people in Emporia or attract new businesses in Emporia, or have these entities ( people ) actually caused more jobs, businesses, people to " VACATE/FLEE " Emporia for an area with, not necessarily more jobs, but a lower cost of living ?
It is almost a sure bet, the county will raise the property tax mil levy by at least 9 mils and the City will undoubtedly raise the City property tax mil levy by at least 3 mils and the school board has said that they would not ask for any additional mel levy increases, but I would not bet on it.
It would seem that there are a small number of those who only know how to ask for more and more and do so only because they want to try and keep up with the " Jones's " or in their cast the Topekas', Junction Citys', Manhattans', Whichitas', Lawrences", Overlandparks', Kansas Citys', Olathes', you know, all those places, with a larger jobs base, larger tax base to draw revenue from .
They seem to be oblivious to the fact that evertime they raise taxes, public fees, etc., that people quit shopping and living in Emporia, businesses and jobs leave and " REVENUE " the City recieves decreases, but the gimme more organizations and entities, do not ask for less or even say don' t give me anything until Emporia and its people are in a better position to give them what they need or are worth .
As for the City sales tax . It can and should have been used for City Infrastructure upgrades and repair, but was not and now the Commissioners are in a predicament as to how to invest in the City, by repairing the City or giving the " Gimme " organizations what they want and letting the Citys Infrastructure " Go to Hell " for at least another 10 years,
raise the property tax and public service fees to try and affect some sort of Infrastructure repair and by raising taxes/fees and run the risk of further decreasing the amount the City receives in revenue.
Yes, being a City Commissioner is not an easy thing . Especially when you have a certain few people are " riding roughshod " over that Commission . And therein lies the problem.
Thats all folks, I have had enough of this Budget B.S. .
And I also totally agree that the City Commission, especially the RDA does not want any Busget suggestions from the citizens of Emporia.
August 12, 2011 at 1:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
booker5m (anonymous) says...
Looks like the RDA gets to write it own ticket and then doesnt have anything to the good to show for it.
August 12, 2011 at 2:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rabblerouser (anonymous) says...
But...but....but......We have Rocks!
August 12, 2011 at 4:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
The following from a 2010 article by Chris Walker:
The tax not only funds economic development, but it also funds property tax relief. So every property owner in Emporia benefits. We have high taxes, and having assistance on our property taxes is important.
If this issue does not pass, we need to ask, “Does every property owner in the city of Emporia really want to pay 30 percent more in property taxes?”
August 13, 2011 at 4:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
actual example of lower property taxes due to the sales tax:
YEAR MIL-LEVY
2011 163.555 est
2010 156.503
2009 148.020
2008 143.833
2007 149.296
2006 147.837
SURE GLAD THAT SALES TAX IS KEEPING OUR PROPERTY TAXES DOWN !
August 13, 2011 at 5:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Here is a great blast from the past. A letter from Steve Sauder pushing for 5 member county commission. Read about the tax rates back in 2006.
http://www.emporiagazette.com/news/20...
August 13, 2011 at 7:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
hometownkid (anonymous) says...
Cut the RDA's budget if the city is short on money.
So we earmark over $100,000 for some rocks and now can't figure out where the money is going??
Silly projects like street scape, clock towers, entrance rocks, etc... I remember when the city just had to have a new aquatic center. Now we can't figure out how to pay for it.
Now the rec commission is talking about spending big money and possibly moving out west...dumb, dumb, dumb !!
Listen folks we have to cut services if we don't want our taxes raised. Of course the city commission and the city manager are going to use scare tactics like, saying it might come from police and fire departments. What a crock!!! How about we cut the salaries of the fat cats at the top!!
Spend less !!! Live within our means please City Commissioners !!
August 13, 2011 at 8:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
What would be interesting is to compare what property taxes and sales taxes were in Lyon County and the City of Emporia, before the the RDA, CVB, Emporia Arts Council, Emporia Main Street, etc., were formed/established.
Then the people might just get an idea as to who or what entities/individuals have been driving the cost of living to higher levels/ current levels in Lyon County and The City of Emporia and perhaps the people of Lyon County and Emporia will/would see exactly who or what is " destroying/killing/holding Emporia and it citizens in a state poverty and near bankruptcy, not to mention ridiculously " HIgh " debt and unbearable tax load and a crumbling City Infrastructure . I can tell you one thing, it is not the " rabid dogs' " or " the crank - in - chiefs' " .
August 13, 2011 at 8:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
methusla,
I will take a different point of view when it comes to Main Street. They have been getting 50K from the city for years. Don't know what they get from the county, (if anything).
They asked for an increase of 10K this year and did not get it. Times are tough for city taxpayers, so I suppose that's o.k.
I guess we members will have to kick in a little more.
Their office is just big enough for the 1 full time and 1 part time employees. I'm not sure they even pay rent for it.
It's the main street volunteers, that time and again, have volunteered, (for free), the heavy lifting on promoting our town. And I am not talking about just sitting on committees figuring out ways to spend money.
Several times a year there are clean-ups where members and volunteers clean up trash in central Emporia.
The adopt a garden project in downtown is a main street project. Granted this year some are looking pretty ragged, but with the heat, that's somewhat understandable.
Live in the Lot is because of Main Street Members.
The Dirty Kanza bike race came to Emporia because of Main Street Members.
The welcome back ESU event is a Main Street event.
People opening small business in Emporia took Main Street sponsored business classes.
Main Street members have low cost loans available for building improvements. And Main Street volunteers have helped several building owners with construction projects.
Now I know the city budget is bad and we need to make cuts, so Main Street won't get an increase this year. To me that is understandable but also sad.
Because when is the last time you have seen the president of the Chamber or CVB, (with their much larger budgets), sweating on the street picking up trash, or helping out at a city-wide event? (besides the Christmas parade).
August 13, 2011 at 11:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
fedup101 (anonymous) says...
Apparently our local governments have not heard the saying prepare for the worst and hope for the best. Their motto seems to be prepare for the best and tax the sh!t out of everyone else. It is time to cut all the dead beat entities that rely on tax payer money to stay afloat. Someone made a "quality of life' statement. When the citizens of Emporia cannot afford to pay utility bills, put food on the table, pay for health insurance, put gas in their car (or afford a car) their "quality of life" is not measured by how many times a week they go play golf, go swimming, or go fly their plane. It is measured by does their family get enough to eat today, do they have a job to keep a roof over their head, and are they safe. I guarantee they do not say to themselves, I sure am glad the cvb and rda are are working for us (especially since they really aren't)
Things are not getting any better in emporia and they probably never will get back to the economic summit that our governments obviously but mistakenly thought we had attained. It has come to the point at which a lot of cuts need to be made. The cvb, rda airport, aquatic center, golf course, zoo, city managers over paid salary, and anything else that are not essential to everyday life need to be cut out completely.
August 13, 2011 at 11:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Sorry I guess I should give the chamber kudos for the Veterans week celebration.
August 13, 2011 at 11:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
fedup101,
That was a great post, and right on the money.
August 13, 2011 at 11:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Steve C. you are right, Main Street is about the only organization that has recieved the same amount year after year and accomplishes what it does thru volunteers and I congratulate them and thank them and the volunteers .
As anyone can see by the following, the tax mil levy has decreased in only 1 time in the last 6 years, in all of the other years it has increased.
Oh, I know the City Commission will say, But we have kept the property tax level flat . But I say, a tax levy increase is still a TAX mil levy increase, no matter whether it is a sales tax, liquor tax, transient guest tax and it will still affect taxpayers, and if the revenue from any of these taxes decreases, then it will affect the taxpayers of Lyon County and City of Emporia taxpayers as well .
In other words a TAX is still a TAX, no matter what you call it or what name you put on it and will eventually affect everyone.
JMO
YEAR MIL-LEVY
2011 163.555 est
2010 156.503
2009 148.020
2008 143.833
2007 149.296
2006 147.837
August 13, 2011 at 1:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
fedup101 (anonymous) says...
Again heard the rumor that Tyson would be closed by the end of the year today. From someone inside the plant this time. I realize this is just a rumor for now, but we all know rumors sometimes come true. The governing bodies need to be better prepared and equipped to handle situations like this.
August 13, 2011 at 1:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
methusla,
You should also note that the year the mil-levy went down, was the year of the real estate bubble when houses were appraised much more than a realistic value. Now that values have dropped and still are governments are at wits end to figure out how to keep up their spending habits.
August 13, 2011 at 4:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
And that estimate for this year is probably low. i pulled it out of my-----------!
;>)
August 13, 2011 at 4:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
booker5m (anonymous) says...
If its true about Tyson? One or more of our great leaders need to get to their head office and do some serious butt kissing to see what can be done to keep them open. Much better than running off to Vegas for a fast food joint!
August 13, 2011 at 8 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
create
Going back on our posts, you stated;
" I don't care about that water park. It's in the wrong part of town to suit my tastes. However, once it 's paid for, I'd like to have that tax share transferred to something more practical and less spectacular. We are not a spectacular kind of town."
Well, I hate to break it to you but that pool money is already earmarked--by the RDA!
The following is taken from the RDA 2011 newsletter, (available on line),
"Specifically, the RDA needs the resources from the ½-Cent City Sales Tax that was used to fund the
Aquatic Center bond payments to be entirely dedicated to economic development. Unfortunately, those
resources are not available until 2015. That is four years out. "
My comment:
Now as you can see, the rda is planning a little further ahead then our city does. And it's planning on another 400K a year in our tax dollars.
August 14, 2011 at 8:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Another example of their long term planning is the location of the pool itself.
Why put it out there, instead of at the old location?
Because part of the cost of building out there went to extending city services, (water, sewer,etc) to the lands now being discussed as a site for Fanestil.
Now that's long term planning!
August 14, 2011 at 8:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
booker5m (anonymous) says...
Why is the RDA getting money? What have they done and do they have a cue what they are doing?
August 14, 2011 at 10:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
In case noone has really noticed, everything in Emporia is RDA,RDA,RDA and that is what is wrong with Emporia .
The RDA, CVB want every dime of sales tax money and transient guest tax money . Even though the sales tax money can and should be used for City Infrastructure repair, the RDA will not allow the sales tax money to be used to keep the Citys' infrastructure to be fixed/repaired/upgraded . Hence the talk by the City Commission of raising property tax mil levys' by approx. 3.5 mils.
Also, even though sales tax and transient guest tax revenues may decrease, the demand for more funding by the RDA and CVB does not decrease.
Since the City has control of how the sales tax is used, then the City/City Commission needs to take full control of how the sales tax is distributed and quit allowing the RDA or the CVB to dictate, order how the sales tax revenues are to be distributed or used.
I would like to know when the City Commission is going to realize that continuing to let the Citys' infracture to decay/crumble, continuing to spend needlessly and continuing to raise taxes, all taxes and public service fees, will not improve how Emporia, Ks. is viewed by others and will not attract nor keep jobs, businesses, Industry or people to Emporia nor will it keep jobs, businesses, businesses or people in Emporia . Also, elected City leadership that is/may be percieved as " weak/easly influenced/controlled by a certain few people, is may also be viewed as being unattractive to others.
From, Chat with City Manager Matt Zimmrman,
" The City receives budget requests from numerous agencies in the City. Part of the allocation request is that each agency must submit a copy of their entire budget and show where the City’s money will be spent. The City can then allocate all, some or none of the request. The Board of each agency then determines how the entire budget, including the City’s allocation, will be spent. While the City can place certain restrictions on how its money may be used, the City has historically not micromanaged the outside agency by designating how specifically the allocation will be spent, as long as the agency can prove it meets any restrictions set forth by State law or the referendum. For example, the half-cent sales tax that was renewed in 2010 for economic development can only be used to fund economic development efforts, which since the tax’s inception in 1994 has been the RDA. "
continued,
August 14, 2011 at 10:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
continued,
So, you see, people, since, according to this statement by Zimmerman, the City does have control of how the City money is used .
Is it not time to put the Citys money to work elsewhere, such as, using it for City Infrastructure Repair, which in the long term, will improve economic developement .
And is it not, way past time for the elected representatives of the City to take the reigns of " the peoples City government " and the City/citizens purse strings and start doing whats best for all of the citizens of Emporia, instead of just whats best or benefits a certain few organizations and people and start doing what the majority of the people of Emporia citizens wish/want them to do, instead of being controled by a few people ?
If the RDA,CVB and others don' t recieve any City funding for a while, then they will need to " beat the bushes " for other " paying " clients outside of the City of Emporia or mount public donation fund drives of their own to get their funding . That way they will see just how good they really are at what they claim to be so good at and also see what the people of Emporia really think of their organization and the job they have been/are doing . But, that could possibly mean that they would loose their " Not for Profit " status/rating and then they would have to survive in the real world, like the rest of us real world people, instead of being " Free Loaders " !
As usual JMO
August 14, 2011 at 10:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
After all, wouldn' t approx. $1 million dollars per year, for a few years, go a long way toward improving the infrastructure/asthetics of Emporia, thereby also improving the posibility of economic development, the marketing of Emporia and the quality of life in Emporia ?
August 14, 2011 at 10:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
methusla,
The city cannot use the money from the economic development tax or the transient guest tax for infrastructure repair or maintenance.
CANNOT !
BY STATE LAW, IT CANNOT !
They can however, go with another option on a development plan instead of the RDA.
And they can use the transient tax in other promotional ways other than funding the CVB.
Of course the city could "determine" that infrastructure use of these monies fall into their designated purpose, much like they have on the transfers of utility revenues into the general fund budget.
That would not be ethical.
I think it would be legal to have another election on the sales tax issue to change the use of those industrial funds to infrastructure improvements, but with a 26% voter turnout it would not help.
Not to mention that, (I think), most all those tax dollars have already been spent and the money collected until 2024 is not only paying for the RDA, it is paying off debt the city has ALREADY taken on for industrial development.
August 14, 2011 at 11:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
booker5m (anonymous) says...
How was the RDA started? Could a petition be started to force a vote to desolve the RDA?
August 14, 2011 at 3:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
I am no lawyer, but the following is a part of the State Statute regarding sales tax revenue.
quote,
e) A class D city shall have the same power to levy and collect a city
retailers' sales tax that a class A city is authorized to levy and collect and
in addition, the governing body of any class D city may submit the ques-
tion of imposing an additional city retailers' sales tax in the amount of
.125%, .25%, .5% or .75% and pledging the revenue received therefrom
for economic development initiatives, strategic planning initiatives or for
public infrastructure projects including buildings to the electors at an
election called and held thereon. Any additional sales tax imposed pur-
suant to this paragraph shall expire no later than five years from the date
of imposition thereof, except that any such tax imposed by any class D
city after the effective date of this act shall expire no later than 10 years
from the date of imposition thereof.
(f) Any city or county proposing to adopt a retailers' sales tax shall
give notice of its intention to submit such proposition for approval by the
electors in the manner required by K.S.A. 10-120, and amendments
thereto. The notices shall state the time of the election and the rate and
effective date of the proposed tax. If a majority of the electors voting
thereon at such election fail to approve the proposition, such proposition
may be resubmitted under the conditions and in the manner provided in
this act for submission of the proposition. If a majority of the electors
voting thereon at such election shall approve the levying of such tax, the
governing body of any such city or county shall provide by ordinance or
resolution, as the case may be, for the levy of the tax. Any repeal of such
tax or any reduction or increase in the rate thereof, within the limits
prescribed by K.S.A. 12-189, and amendments thereto, shall be accom-
plished in the manner provided herein for the adoption and approval of
such tax except that the repeal of any such city retailers' sales tax may be
accomplished by the adoption of an ordinance so providing.
continued,
August 14, 2011 at 3:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
continued,
Now it seems quite clear, at least to me, that the City has the right to designate sales tax revenue/monies to be used for at least three catagories, these catagories being, " pledging the revenue received therefrom
for economic development initiatives, strategic planning initiatives or for
public infrastructure projects including buildings to the electors at an
election called and held thereon. "
It would also seem that the City, according to section ( f ) of the same Statute, would also have the right to call for any special election of the electorate to get the electorates' approval to change where and to whom the City gives the sales tax revenue to .
And since the latest sales tax extension is not supposed to go into effect until 2014, after the present sales tax " sunsets ", the City could call for a special election of the electorate to either repeal the sales tax extension that is to take effect in 2014 or ask the voters for permission to amend the sales tax extension to be designated to be used for City infrastructure repair !
Also the part of Zimmermans statement, in the budget chat he took part in, that states, and I quote, " The City can then allocate all, some or none of the request. "
Is either an " un-truth " or the City Manager does not understand that the City has the right to " absolutely " refuse to fund/give any City monies to any of the groups that request/demand funding from City tax monies .
It would seem, to me at least, that none of the Commissioners nor the City Manager, fully understand the rights of the City in this tax funding thing and quite possibly the City Attorney or any of the City or City Managers Staff does either .
As I said, I am not a lawyer nor sales tax expert. But, I can read.
Is there some " Flim Flaming ", " Smoke and Mirrors " or just plain " Blowing of Smoke " going on here ?
JMO +
August 14, 2011 at 3:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
P.S.
Oh, and by the way Emporia is classified as a Class D city.
August 14, 2011 at 3:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
booker5m
petition?
You have got to be kidding me?
Only 26% of the registered voters, voted in the last election to continue funding the RDA.
So you can thank the lazy know nothing d-bags who did not vote. They are most likely the ones complaining the loudest.
Our city leaders and the powers that be count on voter ignorance and voter apathy to keep the status quo. So far we have not disappointed them.
August 14, 2011 at 4:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
26% did not vote to continue the RDA.
It was just 26% that voted total.
August 14, 2011 at 4:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Voters extend sales tax
By Jeremy Shapiro
Wednesday, August 4, 2010
Even in tough economic times, 64 percent of Emporia voters agreed to continue a half-cent sales tax for economic development and property tax relief through 2024.
The ballot measure to extend the sales tax 10 more years received 2,156 yes votes, with 1,223 voting against it. Voter turnout was 26 percent.
Tuesday’s result means the tax will continue uninterrupted for 15 more years. It has been on the books since 1995 and now has been been renewed twice. Sales tax in Emporia is 8.8 percent.
“We were a little concerned given the economy and the recent state sales tax increase, but it looks like voters were very interested in continuing industrial and economic development and property tax relief,” said Kent Heermann, president of the Regional Development Association of East Central Kansas.
The result gave economic development leaders a sense that the public has approved of the direction taken to attract companies to Emporia.
When the tax was originally passed in 1994, 78 percent of the voters approved it. The percentage was still a robust 69 percent in favor when the tax was renewed in 2000.
The sales tax since 1995 has raised $27.5 million, including $11.3 million for economic development, $13.8 million for property tax relief and $2.5 million for the Jones Aquatic Center. The sales tax replaced six to seven mills in property tax annually.
Though the sales tax would have remained in effect until 2014 even if the extension failed Tuesday, Heermann said its approval opens up some new doors financially. It would potentially allow the RDA to borrow money for projects and may allow for more land acquisition down the line.
August 14, 2011 at 5:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
booker5m (anonymous) says...
Yep guess you are right Steve. What the saying Forest Gump said ?
August 14, 2011 at 6:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Steve C.,
I agree whole heartedly, there seems to be some very gulible, uninterested voters in Emporia, that do not care to take any interest in how " Their " City is run and who gets their tax money or how much the " Gimme " organizations are continuing to want or even how these organizations are spending " Their " tax dollars or even if these organizations are worth what they are getting in the way of funding or even if they are doing a good job at what they are supposedly doing or if the return they produce is even worth the funding they " Demand " . Thats right I said " Demand ", for they do not request funding, they more or less " Demand " funding.
Has anyone ever wondered what these organizations would do if the City would absolutely deny or reduce the amount of funding to these organizations ?
Just let the City tell any one of these organizations that they will not recieve any funding or that their funding will not be increased or that their funding will substantially cut and see what happens.
You already saw what happens when the City tells the RDA that they will not give the RDA the amount of funding the RDA demanded. The RDAs' power brokers appeared before the City Commission or speak to commissioners by phone or email or written letter and demanded that they get the raise in funding they demand .
And the City Commission did not have the " gumption " to say " tough " you will get whatever amount of funding we say or see fit to give you, and if you don' t like it, we may even defund the RDA completely and look elsewhere for a Development Company that has a proven track record .
And since the City Manager himself says the City can, Deny funding all together or cut funding to these organizations. Exactly in legal terms what could these organizatiions do ?
continued,
August 14, 2011 at 6:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
continued,
And since, it would seem, the State has left the decision as to how to use the sales tax funds, within, three specific parameters. Again, I would ask, what could these organizations do, if the City decided to deny or cut funding to these organizations, especially if the City based their decision on how much sales tax or transient guest tax, Alcohol tax revenues are recieved or if the " Tax " revenues received are " sorely " needed to be used elsewhere, such as infrastructure repair, maintenance or paying of certain City Debt.
Yes, Common sense and a sense of doing what is of the most benefit to everyone in the City, is sorely lacking in Emporia. But, there is no lack of spending or giving taxpayer money away needlessly .
And the sad thing is, this situation will not change/get better, unless more people become involved, make their voice heard by excersizing their constitutional right and get out and vote , pay more attention and attend the public budget meetings and let the Commissioners, who work for you/us, know what you approve of and disapprove of.
Truth is when on 1, 2, or a handful of concerned citizen voters, show up at a public City meeting, that is as important as how the City spends or gives our tax money away, or only 26% of registered voters, even bother to vote on importan issues, then the City Commission as well as those who tend to influence, ride " rough shod " over the City Commission, will say/think to themselves, if only a few of the taxpaying/voting citizens of Emporia, care enough to take an interest in their local government does things, then we will do as we please/wish !
JMWO *
* ( Just my worthless opinion )
August 14, 2011 at 6:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
We can complain all we want about the rda or cvb, but right now it's the general and utility budgets that HAVE to be addressed.
Right now the commission is considering raising the mil-levy for the general budget.
Call your commissioners at home, tonight or tomorrow morning, early. Tell them no tax increase.
August 14, 2011 at 7:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
fedup101 (anonymous) says...
Too many people would rather just not even think about what is going on right under their nose. Out of sight out of mind way of thinking runs rampant, not just in Emporia, but in the US in general. Maybe they are too busy worrying about where their next meal will come from to think about where tax money is being spent
August 14, 2011 at 9:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
A little off topic.
Any commissioner reading this thread before the meeting today?
Is that marijuana growing in the corner garden at the civic building?
Southeast corner of 6th and Merchant.
August 15, 2011 at 6:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
There are OVER 3,300 people in Lyon County on food stamps.
August 15, 2011 at 7:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
That's 10% of the population.
August 15, 2011 at 7:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Steve,
6th and Merchant? Isn't that the Bank of America drive up teller? Do you mean 6th and Mechanic?
Yes, being out of work, many are on food stamps. This is a nationwide problem. I might add that school testing uses low income socioeconomic data as part of their report because research tells us that poor nutrition leads to poor test performance.
Well, RDA, what do you have to say about that?
August 15, 2011 at 8:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
ooohps.
6th and Mechanic. Thanks create.
August 15, 2011 at 11:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
booker5m (anonymous) says...
How come the RDA.City commish,City Manager dont come on here and defend their doings?
August 15, 2011 at 11:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
booker5m.
They don't have to defend their doings. Her is the quote from Kent Heerman after the election:
“We were a little concerned given the economy and the recent state sales tax increase,
but it looks like voters were very interested in continuing industrial and economic development and property tax relief,”
said Kent Heermann, president of the Regional Development Association of East Central Kansas.
It is very easy to ignore the people when they don't care enough to vote. or the ones who did were convinced that the sales tax would keep their mil-levy down. In answer to an early question posed.
STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES.
August 15, 2011 at 12:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
create, You and I have discussed sales tax versus property tax lately. Not knowing you personally I would ask you to do the following;
Take your monthly spending on all local items purchased by you. Don't forget any utility bills that are taxed, and don't count gasoline. Figure out what tax you pay at 8.8% sales tax per month. Now go to the appraisers site at Lyon County.org and find your homes page and on the tax report drop down it shows your assessed value and the levy. Add the proposed, (oh let's just say 7mills). Which tax will be more?
I know your basic argument is that with a sales tax everyone pays it, just not property owners.
My argument is the sales tax just gives the government more money to waste and since that tax was 1st voted on, our property taxes have still gone up, almost every year.
August 15, 2011 at 12:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Richie (anonymous) says...
Would anyone be in favor of desolving the Emporia RDA and CVB? If so, by what means would you recommend community promotion and economic development?
August 15, 2011 at 2:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Richie,
I a not really sure on how to change things.
Considering that after 11.3 million dollars have been spent on development and the Emporia area has shown a net loss of about 2,000 jobs, something different needs to be done.
Hell, the city could save the RDA money for the next 12 years and take out full page ad in the wall street journal saying, "our city has 10 million dollars to give to your company if you come here. What would be the difference?
As far as the CVB, the city could hire someone at 40k a year to disperse the bed tax to high school tournaments and such and save the extra money left over for 10 years to say, maybe build a convention center in town, that would actually bring people into town for events.
Here is the low down, Emporia Kansas.
We have become complacent.
Things have been done this way for so long, no one thinks about new ways of doing things.
At one time, long ago, the Chamber of Commerce consisted of a group of Emporia business owners dedicated to promoting EMPORIA as a place to visit, live and work. There were a lot of volunteers working hard at NO pay to promote our town.
Since the RDA tax was voted on , the goal is no longer that. Now the Chamber has become nothing more than a stroke and pat society, dedicated only to it's own preservation.
While the Chamber is really good at ribbon cuttings, ANYONE who is in business in Emporia Kansas knows that membership in the chamber, now means a whole lot less than it used to.
Is a chamber membership REALLY worth the cost?
There will be some who take exception to my remarks. But the smart business people here in town know I'm right.
August 15, 2011 at 10:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Richie (anonymous) says...
Very good points, Steve. We may not agree always, but this is sound thinking.
August 16, 2011 at 10:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Steve C.,
You just explained, very well and in a way that I have been trying for a long to explain what the differences between the way things were done in the past, before the inception of the RDA, CVB, etc. and when the City of Emporia and all of its' citizens was growing and prospering and not being robbed/duped/flimflamed of a large part of their money, via taxation to pay for needless, unnecessary organizations or entities, that have basically done nothing but spend and demand more and more funding, which in all reality are the cause of the City and taxpayers to be overburdened with taxation and Debt . You explained it better than I have or could have and I agree completely.
Good job Steve C.. Oh, and whether you like it or not, by explaining as you did about what could be done without the RDA, CVB ... you my friend have just been labled/seen by a certain few as being an Emporia destroying, non-progressive, holding back Emporia, " Rabid Dog " .
Welcome to the " Pack " !
August 16, 2011 at 11:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
And Steve C., I am not a businessman, but even I know you are right .
August 16, 2011 at 11:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Steve,
Yes, you're right, our property taxes have gone up year after year, despite sales taxes. I haven't checked this out, but I believe the school levy has been responsible for that.
I want to see a list, no matter how long or short, that shows EXACTLY how our share of the sales tax dollar has been spent in the past 5 - 8 years. I've mentioned this to one of our commissioners who believes it's a good idea.
I still like my idea of sharing the load. Many people in this town who are not property owners use the lion's share of what property taxes pay for. I'm talking about help with school expenses, healthcare, that sort of thing. With regard to sales taxes, why shouldn't everybody share in paying for all the other kinds of projects everybody uses like street upkeep and that sort of thing? Why must I constantly be expected ti bring steak to the neighborhood get together while everyone else brings a small bowl of beans?
August 16, 2011 at 5:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
booker5m (anonymous) says...
The city is just playing the old shell game on taxes
August 18, 2011 at 9:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )