Months of planning for a fashion show almost went down the drain last Saturday when 15 minutes before doors opened to the public an Emporia fire official ruled the event could not be held at a downtown furniture store.
The show was reluctantly moved to a nearby bar, Beer:30, but the last-minute determination left organizers angry and confused about why their designated venue couldn’t be used.
It was an unfortunate situation, said Fire Marshal Tom Andrews, who made the decision based on information provided in phone conversations with a battalion fire chief on scene and Emporia Fire Chief Jack Taylor.
Andrews, who was out of town Aug. 28 when the decisions were made, said he knows organizers put a lot of work into the event, but his job is to keep people safe.
“If we allowed it and something did go wrong, how would we explain it,” he said.
Trying to make
an impact
Plans for Aug. 28’s Carnivale Couture fashion show had begun as far back as January. The venue chosen was a large space on the second floor of the Winter Furniture building, 709 Commercial St.
Joshua and Angelia Barbee, Andrew Happle and other show organizers spent a lot of time planning, executing and marketing the event, including clearing and cleaning the second-floor space and building a stage and runway. Happle estimates he spent more than 70 hours cleaning.
Although the show was for all ages, organizers especially targeted young people that have fewer entertainment options.
“We tried to leave an impact and do something for the town and they put up roadblocks,” Happle said.
Organizers were making final preparations Aug. 28 when at 5:15 p.m, a person who identified himself as an acting fire marshal told them there was a problem. After phone calls to Andrews and Taylor, a battalion fire chief said the show couldn’t be held at Winter Furniture. Josh Barbee said the only reason given to them at that time was that the building was zoned to sell things, not view things.
Barbee said fire officials did not know what the event was. He said Winter Furniture operates as a flea market with vendors selling products. The fashion show was an extension of that. The clothing displayed in the show was for sale and musical performers were selling CDs.
“It was a demonstration of products,” Barbee said. “Everything was for sale.”
Not meant
for crowds?
According to fire and building codes adopted by the city of Emporia, the building housing Winter Furniture is classified mercantile. In order to put on this type of show, a building classified assembly is necessary, Andrews said.
He said assembly-classified buildings have more safety requirements to accommodate larger crowds, such as a sprinkler system and increased number of exits. A mercantile can’t be changed to an assembly if it makes for a riskier situation.
“In short, what the code is saying is putting a large amount of people in a space is a riskier use,” Andrews said.
Monte Miller, an Emporia attorney who attended the show with his daughter, agreed that the lack of assembly classification is what halted the show at the store. He said to his knowledge the second floor hadn’t been load tested for structural integrity.
Some businesses downtown are zoned for assembly, including Beer:30 and other bars. Andrews said Natasha’s is a good example of a business that went from mercantile to assembly. Sprinklers were added to the building after a sewing store moved out and it was converted to a billiards and lounge venue.
Dick Winter, who owns Winter Furniture, said more than 200 people came to the store for an auction last year. The fire marshal did not stop that proceeding, he said.
“It seems like they only act when someone calls in with a complaint,” Winter said, noting an anonymous call set in motion what happened Saturday.
Barbee said fire officials did not know how many people were going to be there for the fashion show. He argued that, because officials didn’t know the number, how could they tell it exceeded capacity or turned it into an assembly classification?
“They illegally shut us down,” Barbee said. “They did not know the capacity, and they didn’t give us a chance.”
Andrews said Thursday he didn’t know the capacity for the building. It could be figured out, but officials typically don’t calculate capacity on buildings designated as mercantile.
Lack of
communication
The show organizers and city fire officials did not speak to each other until fewer than two hours before the show was supposed to start.
Barbee said organizers had been in contact with the Emporia Police Department about the show and had not received any indication it wasn’t permitted. Additionally, Barbee said, they had been promoting the show for two months so it wasn’t a secret.
Andrews said he hadn’t heard anything from the police and knew nothing of the show. He said few people know about the codes or know that they are supposed to contact him.
“There was a communication problem,” he said. “We try to make the police aware but there is turnover.”
Andrews said if show organizers had come to him when the show was first planned, he would have recommended they hire an architect to do a drawing of the building that shows code requirements are met.
“What it boils down to is, was it possible for them to hold a show there?” Andrews said. “Maybe or maybe not. I don’t know, because we weren’t contacted ahead of time.”
Though he was sorry it happened, attorney Miller said the teaching moment from this situation is that future event planners know to get appropriate clearance.
Andrews said anyone thinking about holding an event in a store needs to contact him early in the planning process at 343-4239.
The show must go on
After being denied use of the store, Barbee said they briefly considered trying to move the show outside but was told a permit was required.
Rather than call it quits, show organizers scrambled to move the entire production to Beer:30, which opened early to accommodate the event. That was no easy task, he said, but the show did go on, albeit more than an hour-and-a-half late.
The move hurt revenue as some people didn’t want to go to a bar, Winter said.
“We said we are going to do the show regardless,” Barbee said. “It wasn’t perfect or flawless, but we did it despite the odds.”
StovePipe (anonymous) says...
"noting an anonymous call set in motion what happened Saturday"
This is why the younger kids hate Emporia so much. This person could have called days, or weeks ahead of the show. But, it was clearly someone trying to disrupt or, more likely, eliminate the event.
September 4, 2010 at 10:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tangoarmy (anonymous) says...
Emporia has to many cowards and biased people running the city. The city was 100% wrong.
September 4, 2010 at 2:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
Thank goodness for Beer 30!
September 4, 2010 at 3:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Would love to know the identity of the so-called anonymous caller. That would probably go along way towards explaining this whole affair. JMO
September 4, 2010 at 3:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mslater (Matt Slater) says...
Josh, if I were you, I would write an email to the EFD and CC it to the city manager and city commissioners explaining why next year when you put this event on, it will be in Burlington or Osage City.
Then act on it.
Matt
September 4, 2010 at 3:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
Spend hundreds or thousands of $$ on permits, architects, surveyors, inspections, lawyers trying to permission to get permission to do business????
And you wonder why downtown died? Why the economy is in the condition it's in? Why people and businesses are leaving Emporia?
Anon was probably the folks down the street who didn't like the fact that their multi-million dollar renovation with the pricey rental fee wasn't being used.
September 4, 2010 at 3:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oops (anonymous) says...
Lose lose for the EFD. One one hand you have the letter of the law which will make people angry. One the other everybody would have been outraged if instead of "Last-minute change" it had read "20 die in Commercial St fire" and the article described it as something similar to that one that happened in RI. Then the "anonymous caller" writes the gazette saying he alerted the EFD beforehand and they did nothing. Then all you folks would be on here saying how you didn't feel safe with them protecting your family. Either way the FD couldn't win so its better to err on the side of caution IMO. Of course its hard judging because I don't think the Gazette would print all the facts if it wouldn't allow for a case that couldn't be argued on their forums :)
September 4, 2010 at 3:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
hornet08 (anonymous) says...
I hate that people are trying to spin this so it seems the city was picking on the show. The fire chief didn't follow them to Beer 30 and try to shut them down again and the show went on. Did someone wait until the day of show to complain to be a jerk? Probably, but the planners made an error in ensuring a safe show. Take responsibility for your mistakes, learn from them, and have an even awesomer show next time.
September 4, 2010 at 4:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
If I came off sounding like I was ragging on the FD in this matter, I apologize. That was not my intent. They had a thankless, damned if you do damned if you don't job to do.
I still however believe the identity of our last minute anonymous tipster would probably reveal volumes as to what really happened here. But that's just my opinion. I am glad they pulled their show off despite it all and tip my hat to Beer :30 for helping make it happen.
I agree with neighbor however that the suggestion that they hire an architect to deem the building safe suggest a real lack of a firm grasp of the economic realities of the situation.
September 4, 2010 at 4:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
My rag wasn't against the EFD, it's against the hoops and BS!!!!! you have to go thru to make things happen in Emporia. The rules only seem to be enforced on those who are outside the establishment. I supposed the bridal/fashion shows etc held at the former Madelines store were scrutinized the same way? Book signings at the bookstore? Parties at the Anderson building? Auction sales held at businesses closing their doors? No disrespect to any of those events, sorry I had to use you as examples. There was another reason why the EFD was sent there, someone didn't want the event happening and it wasn't in the name of safety.
September 4, 2010 at 6:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
caveman (anonymous) says...
no matter what anyone believes if it is within capicity at a privatte business to stop the show without doing anything wrong is a violation of constitutional rights for assembly. secondly it was not in the name of saftey because the building has a ocupancy they would not allow the show to reach that number they just shut the event down.
minority report anyone?? you can not act and discipline before someone does wrong... am i mistaken? can police issue tickets for speeding before you ever start your car? they could of established what the ocupancy was but they did not care. and on top of that even andrews stated when he was asked if the show could of actually happen his response was what? Maybe, Maybe not, I dont know hahaha i mean seriously these are the people in office even after the event he still has no solid stance cause he doesnt know law or his job enough to even do things the right way.
September 4, 2010 at 9:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
caveman (anonymous) says...
oh and who is to say they would of stopped the people coming in at the proper number of people to keep it safe? and then at some point it would be one in and one out.......but since the city does not have to respect the first amendment they act with their time machine to predict the future
September 4, 2010 at 9:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tangoarmy (anonymous) says...
Neighbor is 100% correct
September 4, 2010 at 9:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
Things turn out best for the people who make the best out of the way things turn out--Art Linkletter.
September 4, 2010 at 11:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
StovePipe (anonymous) says...
neighbor hit the nail on the head. I see no logical or legal reason this show was shut down. It looks like an obvious case of someone with "power" in Emporia intentionally trying to hurt this event. My boss was a sponsor of this event, although we lost the chance to market our business, he says he will not be asking for any type of refund. What about the other 10-15 businesses that sponsored this show because they saw it as a viable, creative and unique event? I think those people should be blasting the Fire Marshall's phone line demanding a better explanation than "“Maybe or maybe not. I don’t know..." That is an absurd response and an unacceptable rational for shutting down the event. They could have placed a couple firemen at the event if there was a concern. I'm told we've had 4 visits from the FD since the smoking ban was passed to make sure we have the proper "No Smoking" signs in our windows (we were no smoking already), clearly they have enough free time.
September 4, 2010 at 11:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
StovePipe,
"I see no logical or legal reason this show was shut down."
Welcome to the business world.
The public want's the government to protect us from those greedy business owners.
While it does suck that this event was almost ruined by an "anonymous" complaint, which in turn caused the venue to be moved, I can see both sides of the story.
If in fact "everything was for sale" than the organizers should have checked zoning, fire and building codes BEFORE hand.
Also if selling products they need a sales tax number, a federal tax ID number, a Kansas witholding and unemployment tax number even if there were no paid employees.
As was stated, "Thank goodness for BEER 30."
Beer 30 had all of the above and had passed all the required government inspections needed to do the event. And they pay for them every year to continue to do business.
So while I agree whoever called in the anonymous complaint was a real "PRICK", this mess should serve as a learning experience for everyone involved. And hopefully there will be another show.
September 5, 2010 at 7:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
A disclaimer on my above:
The above post was written by someone who some on here have called a "greedy" business owner who currently has $7,000.00 tied up in license renewal fees and is awaiting building and fire department inspections in order to do business in Emporia. Oh, we already passed the health department inspection.
September 5, 2010 at 8:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oops (anonymous) says...
So because your boss didn't know the rules its other peoples fault for bringing them to your attention. If you get a speeding ticket for 70 in a 55 is it not your fault if you didnt see the sign? 2 fireman could've stood by for $75/hr
http://www.emporia-kansas.gov/fire-em...
September 5, 2010 at 8:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Absolutely, Steve, especially on all your licensing points. However, I do agree with stove pipe on the weak response from the Fire Marshall. "maybe, maybe not" is not a professional response.
I wondered why the fire department was never consulted to begin with. Yes, the organizers did contact the police, but it sounds like they were depending on the police to guide them through the hoops when that is clearly not their job.
I too agree that the anonymous caller was a real jackass, particularly because the call was made on the day of the event. I betcha we'll all know who that was before long. That kind of info never stays silent for long.
Let this be a learning experience for anyone who wants to stage an event like this again. In fact, let the police cover their own asses now and when anyone goes there to register an event, they should be issued a checklist of things to do and people to notify. That's definitely a city weakness.
I feel sorry for those who had put in so much time cleaning up that second story of Winter's. That had to be a flipping nightmare. For nothing too.
September 5, 2010 at 8:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
create, I really don't want to come off as unfeeling for the organizers of this event.
I think it was/is a great idea and something different for ole Emporia. You have some idealistic and forward thinking young people wanting to do something constructive and bam, they get a hard lesson on how things are done.
I am really hoping this experience doesn't keep them from trying again.
I would even try to help them in some way, if they do it again.
September 5, 2010 at 8:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tangoarmy (anonymous) says...
The people putting on the show did one last year which didn't have any problems and the building they used was smaller yet zoned the same way. It was a personal issue by someone in Emporia to cause a problem.
September 5, 2010 at 9:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
tangoarmy,
you are right. Someone had a hard-- for this group of young people.
The next time they plan one let's all get together and see what we can come up with for a venue at little or no cost. There has got to be a place out there which will work, or the sponsors who will help rent one.
It's the one good thing about most Emporia residents, they are usually there to help.
September 5, 2010 at 9:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Hey, before too long, the new building at the fairgrounds will be ready to use. I hope this group will think of going there -- with all the proper tax documents of course. You're right about the personal issue, tangoarmy. But like I said, we'll learn who the jerk is soon.
September 5, 2010 at 10:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tangoarmy (anonymous) says...
Steve Corbin,
I'm hoping this years drama didn't put a bad taste in current/future sponsors mouths. I agree with what you have posted there was some things not covered but the lesson has been learned.
September 5, 2010 at 10:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
tangoarmy is exactly right. The same people held a show just like this one in the old Hill's Appliance Building on the corner of Fifth and Merchant awhile back without incident. In fact the EG did a big photo spread of the affair.
This anonymous tip was personal and was intended to disrupt if not destroy the event. The FD was made a pawn in some body's vendetta.
September 5, 2010 at 10:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
Create, wish we would find out, but that won't happen. I would be willing to wager it is someone involved in the insurance business.
The EFD was sent out a couple of times to give the bad news to a service organization I once belonged to. Both events were effectively shut down on the opening day or the day scheduled to hold the event! They told us there had been anon complaints back then too. One event was the largest fund raising event the organization had held every year for quite some time previously. They shut it down 10 minutes before it opened up. That event was never held again because we couldn't afford to pay the price to jump thru the hoops required by the City to operate that event. One hoop included a huge liability insurance policy that would protect the neighbors "in the event of a fire".
The second event we quit putting on was also discontinued because of the expense required by City regulations including a huge liability insurance policy that would protect the neighbors "in the event of a fire or accident".
I once worked for a local tavern as a bouncer. We were often visited by EFD who claimed they were there following anon complaints about being over our capacity limit, not having adequate ventilation, sprinkler systems or some other BS excuse for them showing up late in the evening to shutdown the business's success that some other downtown merchant wasn't getting.
All three examples I gave above were popular with young citizens. The organization's membership was people under 30yrs of age. The fashion show involved teens and area youth. All of the events were shutdown or altered because of supposed fire/city code violations and required insurance coverage.
Not too hard to narrow down the list on who who made the call to EFD.
September 5, 2010 at 12:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
caveman (anonymous) says...
To the response to someone saying there needed to be all the tax paperwork. I do see what your saying but you ARE allowed to have a garage sale without any of those thiings correct?? and you are also making an ignorant statement (i mean that literally not trying to be rude) but you do not know if the organizers did have a tax id number.. also Any band or street performer can walk down the street and sell their personal items to someone without that stuff. so like i said earlier there is alot of things we can talk about things that may or may not of happened, but when it gets down to it we can only go off of what happened and that is if they are not over capicity, on private property then they can do nothing. And with that building code stuff being zoned for sales and not assembly, all that does is make the occupancy lower not mean you can not hold entertainment events. just means you will not have the occupancy of say beer 30 or natashas......so maybe the event could of had just over 200 people there being within the code for a retail store and 800 with the code of beer 30. fact is all that stuff changes is your occupancy
September 5, 2010 at 12:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
caveman (anonymous) says...
So with your above logic with needing certin id numbers police need to go to every private sale and shut it down....especially if its not zoned for retail so every show, every garage sale, every band that plays in the granada the works.....
And someone did bring up earlier events like the ones at the old madelines and how it was a place zoned for mercantile and no one cared....or places that got our state tax money to renovate and build a stage in their building in the music store.....nothing wrong with them doing that but they are a retail store that sometimes has some demonstrations or small entertainment events just within their occupancy
and to OOPS you said If you get a speeding ticket for 70 in a 55 is it not your fault if you didnt see the sign?" but the thing is they stopped thing before anything happened they could of stepped in that building in ten min and checked the square ft route of egress and emergency lighting and given the event an occupancy rating on the spot and as long they were within that it was fine but they would not do that. so issue is not they got a ticket for going 70 in a 55 it is like getting a ticket for 70 while your still in your house looking for your keys....
The organizers could of gone way over capicity and the building could of collapsed and it all could of gotten hit by a meteor and burned everyone to the ground OR it could of been a great time and stayed legal and under occupancy and there would of been no reason for any of this.....this is what you all need to realize it was NOT an issue of saftey of anyone not going about things the right way or clearing things first...it is them throwing their weight around and and stopping anything they want under whatever guise they want hoping you will all look into the future with them and only see bad things truth is it could of been good too you forget that and this as all for nothing but like i said used their time machine to rob everyone of their rights to religion(every band that played and was going to play were all christian bands bet no one knew that so that pulls religion into it) and peaceable assembly
September 5, 2010 at 12:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oops (anonymous) says...
Maybe I used a poor example. If an anonymous caller told the cops I was going to kill someone do they have to wait till I actually killed someone to intervene? Do they just post a couple of cops to watch me since they have lots of free time driving around all the time and such? Should they have waited to shut you down till just after you started so you would have just been SOL? Again I don't know all the facts, but I am sure there is more to the story than what the gazette reported. I am just trying to be impartial here. There are two sides to every story Yours, theirs, and the truth (that was my grandpa's favorite saying).
September 5, 2010 at 1:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
You make a lot of sense, neighbor. Yes, sour grapes on some insurance guy's part.
I do know that the quilt guild I am involved with takes out insurance for our one-day event in the spring. $174 for the event that doesn't even last seven hours. Amazing! I realize we have to have this insurance, but the cost is really too damn high for a one-day event. This will be very interesting to see how this all plays out when the new fairgrounds building opens for business. Boy oh boy, they'd better have a checklist of requirements, insurance being only one.
September 5, 2010 at 1:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
caveman (anonymous) says...
Oops i agree with what you are saying but yes they cant arrest you just cause someone said they think you are going to kill someone without proof same thing they are more than welcome to post up and see what is going on or watch
just like in the show they offered to have them at the show they actually asked if the pd could send some guys over just to be there and involved and even mentioned to have someone from the EFD to stick around long enough to make sure that there was none over capicity
September 5, 2010 at 1:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
"to rob everyone of their rights to religion"
That's probably the reason. As we have seen right here on these forums the opposition to freedom of religion is growing. Many people put their left hand on your shoulder and reassure you that they support freedom of religion while they hide a knife behind their back with their right hand ready to stab.
September 5, 2010 at 1:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
joecitizen (anonymous) says...
1st, if you read the article, it was clearly reported that it was Dick Winter not any official from the city, PD, or FD who suggested that the presence of a fire dept official was triggered by an anonymous phone call. but you are all running with that, without any evidence. And who would believe Winter anyways. how many years were we bombarded by his promotions of "closing his doors forever" last week in business" "total inventory liquidation" clearly he lacks credibility.
2nd, any blogger can drive down merchant and see that the fire escapes on the building are clearly innaccessible. banners touting various "final sales" and such have been hanging off of that rickety old fire escape for years. and lets not forget window air units blocking the stairs, and the missing last section that allows you to get to the ground from the last 10 ft or so. Then we can turn our attention inside, to the one staircase that allows people to move from floor to floor. are there emergancy lighting units in place, lighted exit signs, and fire extinguishers? not to mention the heavy volume of combustible materials packed into the floor below the space. Been in there recently? it's hard enough to negotiate in light, without people pushing and shoving trying to get out. And the comparison to other such buildings, where similar events have been held, fails to point out that those spaces were ground floor, with more than one entrance or exit.
3rd, it is the job of our city officials and employees, elected or otherwise, to protect the citizens over all else. i know it was a reluctant decision to shut down this venue, but it was clearly not a safe environment for this large number of people.the responsibility and blame for this rests with the organizers, and the building owner.
this is a prime example of what can happen if the building conditions are unsafe:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZx4i1...
I agree that you should all make calls to the Fire Dept. but not to be argumentative as some would suggest, but rather to thank them for helping to potentially save the lives of your friends, neighbors, and children. there is no such thing as acceptable risk.
September 5, 2010 at 2:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
There is so much positive in the story yet only the negative aspects are being highlighted.
Young people are planning and organizing exciting events in our community.
Community businesses are stepping up to the plate in support of these events.
Our fire department is ensuring the safety of the patrons and participants of these events.
Even at the last moment an event coordinator is able to find a substitute venue for an event in our community.
Beer 30 is always a good time.
What else could anyone want?
September 5, 2010 at 2:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
misterman (anonymous) says...
If they would have planned properly, this never would have happened. The city and the FD were just doing their jobs. If they hadn't and something tragic would have happened everyone on here would be bashing the EFD for not doing anything to prevent a tragedy. These people had no clue what they were doing, and it shows. Maybe they should try to properly put an event together instead of scamming local businesses to support a hack "fashion show". I find it funny that the biggest complaint is over zoning. Isn't this the same couple who LIVES in their store? Not above it, IN IT. Is their store zoned for residential use...? There are so many regulations and laws not being followed in that "store" it's ridiculous. When you aren't running a business legally, you probably shouldn't try to slam the powers to be in the Gazette...
The fashion show was a good idea, but unfortunately the people trying to execute it did not have the skill or talent to pull it off.
September 7, 2010 at 11:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
I'm thinking we've met the complaintant now.
September 8, 2010 at 5:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
I'm thinking ye might be right neighbor.....
September 8, 2010 at 6:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Yup, me too.
September 8, 2010 at 9:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
romano1784 (anonymous) says...
"Dick Winter, who owns Winter Furniture, said more than 200 people came to the store for an auction last year. The fire marshal did not stop that proceeding, he said"
Ok so 200 people can show up for an auction and its cool, but an unknown number of people "planning" to show up is unnacceptable. Im confused...
"Joshua and Angelia Barbee, Andrew Happle and other show organizers spent a lot of time planning, executing and marketing the event, including clearing and cleaning the second-floor space and building a stage and runway. Happle estimates he spent more than 70 hours cleaning." Misterman you think they might have cleaned up the stairwells and such as well?
This again goes back to this issue of "safety". The stupid, irresponsible, low down, citizens, cant be responsible for our own safety. thats the gist i get from reading articles like this. A good point was made earlier. Shut down all garage sales, street vendors,, ect that dont have insurance and such to cover their potential customers in the "event" of a fire, flood, roof caving in, ect.
BS in my opinion. the city and insurance companies werent making a buck off of it and it couldnt go to a new round-a-bout or a street light or any other worthless money wasting idea the city has for us "citizens" next.
September 8, 2010 at 12:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
booker5m (anonymous) says...
Would you be talking about the Missyman lol
September 8, 2010 at 12:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
misterman (anonymous) says...
Complaintant? Not by far. Call me old fashioned, but I come from a generation where you respect the FD and PD. The FD was simply doing their job, it is not their fault the planning was not properly done. These people walked into my businesses soliciting sponsorship and I refused based on their approach and my own sons experience dealing with them when his band was trying to organize an event. I'm shocked this made the front page. I would have much rather picked up the paper and seen a front page story about all of the things Clint Bowyer is doing for this town. Now that's newsworthy. Not this nonsense. Nobody was "wronged". They just could not pull off the simple planning of an event. Bottom line.
September 8, 2010 at 2:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
misterman (anonymous) says...
*business
September 8, 2010 at 2:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
This was unfortunate, but I'm glad that everyone stayed optimistic and pulled together to keep it going. For anyone else out there planning an event, make sure you contact whomever in the city offices that actually signs off on these things so no one has to cancel for safety reasons. This seems to me to have been a break-down in communications, namely of the PD not instructing the organizers to consult code services or the FD for safety codes. If they had, the location could have been changed long before the event and all of this wouldn't have been an issue. Unfortunately, a human talked to a human and seeing as all humans are imperfect, a mistake happened and now people are mad. It is possible that the anonymous caller had a grudge against the event or it may have been someone who had just learned about it and knew it was a bad idea safety-wise and went against codes. I've read on this forum that it was widely advertised, but I didn't know about it until the day after and I'm sure I'm not the only one who didn't know about it weeks in advance. I think it's time to forgive and move on having learned that we must all check with city codes before putting on an event in any location that isn't used primarily for like events. Safety codes are the result of lessons learned, both here and elsewhere, and usually from tragedies that we don't want to see repeated.
September 8, 2010 at 4:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
booker5m (anonymous) says...
Yep smelling the sour grapes now
September 8, 2010 at 6:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
caveman (anonymous) says...
mistermann you really should not be anonymous if you are going to actually make direct stabs at specific people be ann adult and dont hide behind the internet to make bold statements,
September 11, 2010 at 2:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
caveman (anonymous) says...
on a side note everyone that is not loaded to the gills with money should never ever do a thing in this town and we should definately keep culture out of our community
September 11, 2010 at 2:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Brutalbelle (anonymous) says...
I think every one is missing a huge point, We live in a college town. SO "Misterman" would your business even be alive if the college was shut down. This whole town would lose a huge part of business. So shutting down an event that brings people to Emporia, doesn't make any since. Esu had the largest student cut this year. Why? cause people have no reason to come to this town. There are what. .. bars? but doesn't every town. So why not give them a reason to come here, an event to look forward to. Otherwise Emporia will continue to lose students year after year. But IF every one worked together to start something to bring students here, started something to look forward to, wouldn't that intern mean more students, which for local business mean, more money. But you want to criticize the one couple who sees a bigger picture for this town. You want to be out for yourselves instead of working together to benefit every one. Looking at it on a larger Scale, NYU up scaled in students, cause of fashion week in NEW YORK. . . why not think big, why not bring something like that to kansas to your very own home town. We are taught as children to think out side the box, to use our creativity . Then as adults we are told to be quiet and roll over. How many people do you think thought Thomas Edison was crazy for his ideas. How many people do you think told ., Christopher Columbus what your doing is wrong, and I know for a fact people tried to shut him up. Yet despite all odds, he pushed through, people shutting them down and spouting off hurtful things, because he had a bigger vision. HE had a bigger picture. Watch what you say, and who you say it to, cause you never know that might be the person who discovers the cure for cancer, or becomes the next president. As for Josh and Angelia, Im glad you think on a wider scale, otherwise you would end up conforming and being just as closed minded. If it was not for people like you, Our country, Our history would not be what it is today.
September 11, 2010 at 1:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
citizen1 (anonymous) says...
please. the place was a hell hole up there! not to mention that it caught on fire a few years ago! plus there is not enough circulation for the amount of people they were planning for! Plus there is a limit of how many people can be contained in a space, the biz i work for is a alot bigger then the upstairs at winters and we can only have 125 people, so even if they could throw the show they would probably be alotted 50-70 and that is counting performes also. Also there is one way outta that place and if there was a fire the city would be so wrapped up in law suits for the fire deptartment not stopping it. No one is being closed minded, no one is dicriminating, also lets not forget if anyone has gone to any of there shows it is filled with middle school and high school kids NOT COLLEGE students.I understand that alot of blood sweat and tears went into this event I respect that, but what it comes down to was a saefty issue. now next event you know what to do.
September 12, 2010 at 11:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
I don't know "Josh and Angelia", to my knowledge I've never even seen them. But they do certainly seem to illicit strong emotions from people that do. And those emotions often seem to be one extreme or another. The only person I know that does know them is a young woman (much closer to their age than mine) that has some " strong" things to say about them.
I'm not going anywhere with this other than to suggest they may be in the wrong line of work. The way people seem to respond to them with either love or hate, I might suggest they enter politics. They seem to be well suited for it.
September 13, 2010 at 6:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
LOL biscuit!!!
September 13, 2010 at 9:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
caveman (anonymous) says...
haha but that is the same with all people young or old.....just the love hate is worse when you deal with high school-young adult. everyone has a bad memory or a great memory in a town of this size. but everyone is sorta going off on bunny trails.....we can speculate safety or occupancy or whatever you want to speak about.....but law is law and you can not take prevenetive action against someone not doing anything wrong yet.. facts are facts bottom line
September 13, 2010 at 10:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )