Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

true words

too late.

September 1, 2010 at 12:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

solong (anonymous) says...

Instead of singing "As the beat goes on" I am singing "I'm going to Kansas City, Kansas City here I come! But wait, it's reddong to the rescue singing "We shall overcome."

September 1, 2010 at 12:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

My first belly laugh of the day, solong. Good one.

Good words, Chris Walker, but with the kind of response they gave the first time, do you really think they'll heed the message? They don't want to give this any more thought than typical lip service because it's easy. That's why they don't want to take time to look for solutions.

I can hear them now. It's damned if you do and damned if you don't. Well, you people are the ones who got involved to begin with. You ran for office. As a group, you made promises. Now you're just giving us double talk.

Contained in the last sales tax election form in part (b) were the words, "reduce city levied property taxes..."

This wording was a trick to get people to believe that if they voted "yes" that their property taxes would not be raised.

Chris, to answer your question, I believe that in view of the current economic mess, the city of Emporia is much too unrealistic about what they want to spend on infrastructure. They need to calm down, just calm completely down and be ultra conservative. No frills. A city of our size should not have the highest taxes in the state.

How do other cities of our size do it? Not only here in Kansas, but in other areas in the plains states as well. (No Zimmerman, this does not give you a reason to make another trip!)

September 1, 2010 at 1:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...

solong, hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God!. If you are having some economic pain--that means your alive. SHOOT FOR THE STARS AND IF YOU MISS AND HIT THE TOP OF THE MOUNTIAN--THAT'S NOT BAD. There was this guy that was holding onto the edge of the cliff for dear life and yelling for help when he heard a voice saying, "let go and let God!." and he answered back--anybody else up there!!

September 1, 2010 at 2:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bobhornet (anonymous) says...

Great editorial. Let me add one thing: the state needs to impose the same sales taxes on internet purchases as they do on traditional store purchases. It's patently unfair that online stores have an built-in 8.5% markdown on goods that our local merchants cannot compete with. Merchants online and offline should compete on an equal field.

September 1, 2010 at 2:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

solong (anonymous) says...

Economic pain is definitely not the issue reddong, just tired of paying for things like a Johnson County courthouse in Lyon County. You don't buy a Lamborghini making minimum wages, the powers that be here just don't get it when they are spending our money.

September 1, 2010 at 2:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

cheerup (anonymous) says...

Create - Chris is talking about the county not the city. The city is not talking about raising the mill levy-It is the county that is wanting the 5.5 mill increase. Most of this increase is for roads and bridges!!!

September 1, 2010 at 2:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

The very first expenditure in the Citys budget, under General Fund is " Personnel Services, with an expenditure of $11,153,199, followed closely by Merit Pay, with an expenditure of $125,739 .

The Personell Services expenditure is the single highest expenditue listed in the General Fund or in the entire budget and with a total expenditure figure of 2011 listed as $19,692,509, of which $11,153,199 are for Personnel Services (wages ) ! That means that every man woman and child in Emporia is paying $446.13 per year out of their wages in order to pay the wages of the City employees, such as City Manager, asst. City manager, City Attorney, etc., etc.

This also means that approx. $8,539,310 is left to be spent on public services and infrastructure repair and maintenance.

And the Personnel Services(wages) for 2011 are $689,423 more than 2011.
Apparently a lot of people working for the City are going to get a raise in pay !

If the City leaders would cut unnecessary spending and freeze wages at the 2010 level they would save the City and its taxpayers a train load of money.

And I would imagine the County Budget is the same way .

September 1, 2010 at 3:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

Sorry cheerup, you're absolutely right.Thank you for catching me. I apologize to our city fathers and mother.

September 1, 2010 at 4:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

lowereastside (anonymous) says...

My husband and I have talked about this for a long time but if the city, or county for that matter, raises taxes anymore, or utilities go up to an even more exorbent rate than we already are paying, we are going to seriously consider moving out of this county. We own two homes here and really like our neighbors and neighborhood but enough is enough. So if the city and county want to see even more population loss and two more houses empty here, keep it up.

September 1, 2010 at 4:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

lowereastside

My sister and I are also contemplating moving out of Emporia and Lyon county .

One can move to Johnson County and your taxes will be 16% lower than in Emporia and Lyon County and if the County, schooldboard and rec center raise taxex over 10 mils that 16% figure will be closer to 25% less taxes in Johnson County.

September 1, 2010 at 4:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

lowereastside (anonymous) says...

Sedgwick county water & sewer rates are about 1/2 of what we pay here.

September 1, 2010 at 5:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

REWBA (anonymous) says...

I bet if Emporia would start celebrating the 3,000+ year old Moon Festival things would start looking up for this town and it's people. It should be held during the Autumn Equinox when the moon is at its fullest and roundest. This year it will happen on September 22. We could sell moon cake to tourists and make lots of money. You have to celebrate today's harvest for tomorrow's is promised to no one. The harvest moon will be watching to see who appreciates what they have that night. I'll eat a moon cake and party. What about y'all?

September 1, 2010 at 5:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

b3bill (anonymous) says...

A sales tax like the county-wide 1% is a hassle for most people to keep track of just how much they've actually spent for a specific cause. That's part of the plan for having a tax like that. You're supposed to forget about it and just Shop Emporia First and pay the big sales taxes. Then get your county tax bill and see it go way up since they just don't have enough money to do everything they want and can't cut back to operate within their means.

I campaign and vote against anyone in any office who promotes a tax increase of any kind. No exceptions. I hope all other voters who hate the way the taxes have gone here will do the same.

September 1, 2010 at 5:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

lowereastside (anonymous) says...

In tonight's paper alone, there are a total of 79 ads for available apartments, houses, & mobile homes, combining for rent with for sale. This does not count the numerous homes listed by real estate agents on other venues. Isn't college already in session?

September 1, 2010 at 8:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

Good comment, lowereastside. This leads me to wonder if ESU enrollment is considerably lower than usual. I do know my neighbor rented an apartment to 2 students who wanted to add two more to the lease. This tells me they may be trying to save money by doubling up.

I'm guessing reddog will tell us about the impact and why we have so many rentals and sale houses available.

September 2, 2010 at 7:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

cooter (anonymous) says...

A move from Emporia to Johnson county will also give you the following: a real newspaper, radio stations worth listening too, a diverse and vibrant metropolitan area, restaurants, entertainment, and none of this constant, never-ending, two-bit, small town bickering.

Why wait?

September 2, 2010 at 1:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

cooter,

You forgot to mention, lower taxes, and more money in you own pocket !

Gee, makes me wonder what you see in small town Emporia. It certainly can' t be the jobs, the lower taxes or the ability of the Citys leaders to spend within the amount of collected revenues !

Why are you here ?

September 2, 2010 at 2:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

cooter (anonymous) says...

I thought I would find a small, close knit community, working together to make a great place to live. Emporia has all the potential. Nice sized population, beautiful location, close to KC and Topeka, a well-respected university, a downtown that could grow and thrive. But instead of community spirit, we have a newspaper that thrives on fomenting controversy just to sell advertisements, a radio station with an agenda and an axe to grind, and a set of loud-mouthed, unlettered complainers that set the tone around here. Nobody can please them. According to them, the City is a bunch of crooks, the County is a bunch of idiots, the college is a bunch of "elite intellectuals." Can we trash anyone else? Maybe Chris or Steve can write an editorial to stir more people up. Want to know why the town is going down the tubes? Look in the mirror.

Instead of a promising community, we have a fractured, embittered little burg filled with small-minded, nit-picking whiners who can't see the big picture and insist on living in the past. You're bent out of shape by a 5 mil increase? What's that going to cost you - another $18 per year? You're upset because the City wants to use ideas that have had success in other towns in Kansas? Afraid that might detract from the Emporia you love to criticize so much? Why don't you put down the poison pen and lend a hand? It's easy to complain, and a lot harder to get your hands dirty. But that will never happen.

And so, I will be happy to take my my money and my family elsewhere. Hopefully some place where they care about the community enough to stop boo-hooing and actually work together. And if you drive enough of us newcomers out with your unyielding negativism, I hope you enjoy the zero population growth.

September 2, 2010 at 2:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jaxson (anonymous) says...

Great post cooter!!

Also people dont mention that Johnson county will give you a huge home mortgage payment......

I have several friends up there and the price of homes in the "nice" areas are ridiculous compared to Emporia....

September 2, 2010 at 3:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

Well cooter, welcome to small town living. A place where everyone knows everyone else and think they know what everyone else is doing. A place where people are stuck in the past, and there are a lot of nit-picking whiners.

Move to Johnson county for a better newspaper and radio stations? Nah, this old timer stuck in the past will read other papers on the internet and listen to sirus radio or I-Pad it.

You asked why a 5 mill levy increase would upset someone ,( and then mentioned $18.00). I don't know about methusla but a 5 mill increase added to the 2.55 and 2.5 of the school board and rec center will add about 550.00 a year more ontop of an already
6,000.00 a year tax bill for my 2 properties. so figure up the monthly bill on that, add insurance to it and see if it's not just a little more than $18.00?

We like Emporia, that's why we live here. But as taxpayers it is our right and duty to question how our government is run.

And if you get right down to it, I would bet you that per capita, Johnson county has more nit-pickers and whiners than Lyon County. You just can't here them as much because of all that big city noise.

September 2, 2010 at 3:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

Thanks for your comments, cooter.

I don't know what you mean by "unlettered complainers." Perhaps you will enlighten me.

I for one have chosen Emporia as my home; I have been here since 1975 and have, in my younger years, worked for many community organizations as a volunteer. I firmly believe we should all give back to our community by volunteering or contributing financially.

Now that I am older and am no longer able to get into the trenches, I still volunteer on one advisory board for the county and am very proud to do that.

That being said, I feel like I have paid my dues and have a right to "complain." Most of us are not really complainers if you care to really think about it. We are critical thinkers who are willing to look deeper at every situation here locally because we care about Emporia. We attend the city and county meetings and we try to keep our leaders on their toes by letting them know we are a thinking group. We are not simple sheep.

I grew up in a small town just a 40-minute drive from Honolulu on the windward side of Oahu. Oh sure, lots of good stuff going on there. Have you priced real estate in Hawaii? Regular people can't afford to live there without practicing extended family homes. That town grew so large that the charm disappeared and the property values ate people alive. I could no longer afford to live there. My point is that it too had its problems. One thing for sure, all small towns, charming or otherwise, have their fair share of problems, political, economical, you name it. Emporia is just one more of those. In a large area, the individual just gets swallowed up. Some people like to lose themselves in the masses.They lose their voices too.

However, I am not willing to let this town go to the dogs and then just bitch about it and move away like you are planning to do. As an older person, I expect to pass the torch to you younger people, but not if you're just going to give up and move away. So you go ahead, take your money and your family elsewhere. Don't stay and put up a good fight. Just go away and be a sheep. We need movers and shakers here. Young ones.

September 2, 2010 at 3:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

Bravo Steve!!! I know, my tax increase was nearly $200. Hardly 18 bucks.

September 2, 2010 at 3:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

Well it looks like Chris Walker and Steve Sauder do have a little clout in Lyon County. It didn't stay flat, but at LEAST it's not a 5.5 Increase.

September 2, 2010 at 3:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

create,

I'm not ready to give up on cooter. If they live here I want them to stay. Emporia has and probably will always be a good place to raise a family.

I don't think we are all stuck in the past, there are many forward thinking individuals in town. More than a few visitors have commented on how friendly and inviting this town is. And we do have a lot to be thankful for.

But it is important to stay involved in ALL civic affairs and voice our opinions, be they negative or positive.

Right now times are hard everywhere, so you are going to hear more negative than positive anywhere you go.

September 2, 2010 at 4 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

cooter (anonymous) says...

Both of you miss the point; so allow me to be candid.

Yeah, ok, the $18 was hyperbole. But I hear on the radio now, the increase is down to around 3 mils. Mr. Corbin, I expect updated expenditure reports on your next post. If you would be kind enough to index the projected increase to a mid-level home, say around $85,000, and let us know what the increase would be for that homeowner, you'd be doing us a service. Let's see if that amount is too much for all the services we get? And if it is too high - why don't you tell us exactly which services you would cut. Please be specific. Go ahead, stick your neck out - but remember, if you do, you'll be criticized for it. You might even be personally attacked. Cheap-shotted even. I'd hate to see that happen, though.

As for the rest of my post, you'll agree I hit the mark. The level of mean-spirited nastiness on this format is unbelievably ugly, and it presents a none-too-flattering face of Emporia. I don't agree that this is just a part of small town life. It's a symptom, in my opinion, of a broken community. If you'd like to be taken seriously, and if you wish to be viewed as the civic-minded "free thinkers" you claim to be, you should call out those cheap shot artist whenever they appear, and curtail the vicious personal attacks on people like Matt Zimmerman and Teresa Walters. I'd like to give both of them the benefit of the doubt that they are doing their jobs as conscientiously as possible. Until you can prove otherwise, why not keep your ugly comments to yourself? They bring the level of discourse down and they make the person writing them look like an idiot. Valid critiques, of course, notwithstanding. Oh, and before I forget: Upset about the smoking ban? Get over it. That ship has sailed. STATEWIDE.

Need movers and shakers here, eh? Well that's just who you are alienating. We've come here from all over, just like you, Create, and we have talents and are looking to contribute. The hateful, petty-minded carping isn't an incentive, however.

So my two cents is - if Sauder can't find anything to say that's positive, tune him out. And let his advertisers know it. Same with Chris Walker. And the small-minded bloggers he enables. When he, or they, start contributing to the positive around here, I might start paying for a paper. But for now, I'll get my news on-line, thank you very much. If enough of us do that, we could really change the tone in this town and start getting positive.

Until then,

SAVE THE FAIRGROUNDS and sell the Gazette.

September 2, 2010 at 4:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...

"If you can't beat 'em, join 'em," huh, cooter?

September 2, 2010 at 4:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

cooter (anonymous) says...

When in Rome....

September 2, 2010 at 4:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...

LOL. Well, you're acclimating very well. Welcome to Emporia!

September 2, 2010 at 4:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

booker5m (anonymous) says...

Lets see $18 here $15 There Why should we worry bout these little increases?

September 2, 2010 at 5:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

cooter,

I don' t have to tell you what services or expenditures I would cut from the City or County Budget ... I have already told the City and County leaders what needs to be cut and what wants need to be cut from the Budgets .

And is your idea of living and moving into the future, the continued City and County leaders continuing to spend more than they take in in tax revenues, just to satisfy someones obsessive wants instead of the needs of the " whole " and extending sales taxes and increasing property taxes, just to do so.

If that is your idea of moving into the future then you can have it, and you can also pay for it. Exactly where has that phylosophy taken anyone anywhere except to future ruin and bankruptcy.

Case in point, the multi-trillion dollar federal deficit/debt and the multimillion doller debts of the City of Emporia and Lyon County and the debt will only get larger and deeper instead of less, if the spending of the City and County is not better controlled, thought out and managed.

The simple rule of economics and budgeting for survival is, " You can never spend more than you make and expect to survive for long " !

It is just plain stupid and irresponsible for the City or County leaders to approve a Budget that spends $750,000 more than it takes in, in tax revenues and then dip into the cash reserve to make things seem alright.

And your figure of $18.00 per year more in taxes is " idiotic " at best and " stupid " at worst. The cost in extra taxes will cost the average property owner in the neighbor hood of $120 to $300 per year at the least, depending on the assessed value of their property and for someone like Steve Corbin the figure may be closer to $18.00 per day.

September 2, 2010 at 5:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

Well cooter, you never did define your "unlettered complainers." We do now know, however, that you are a friend or fan of Teresa Walters and that gang of pushy people wanting to change this town to their own idea of perfection.

Still I find it quite entertaining that you have joined the club of complainers in your own complaint. The poets of old wrote their complaints in verse incidentally, and now we study them at length. But, I digress.

I offer you your own words here: "...if Sauder can't find anything to say that's positive, tune him out." I suggest you follow your own advice and tune out those who post on this forum.

September 2, 2010 at 6:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

cooter,

Allow me to lay out this 2011 property tax increase for you in terms you may be able to understand.

1. the County mil levy increase will be 3.547 mils 2. add to that the school board mil levy of 2.55 3. also add a 2.5 mil levy for the rec. center and you will come up with a total property tax mil levy increase of 8.597 mils. or
3.547+2.55+2.5 = 8.597 mils .

Plainly put that means for every $1000 dollars of assessed vallue of your property/home your tax bill will increase by $8.597. Therefore an $85,000 assessed value home would see a tax bill increase of $739.342 per year or $8.597 X 85 = $739.342, which is undoubtedly quite a bit more than $18.00 per year.

Even a lowly property with an assessed value of $10,000 dollars would see a property tax increase of $85.97, and that is still quite a bit more than $18.00 per year.

Jump into the real world for a change " cooter " and see how you like it.

Emporia is/was a great little town, until someone decided to try and remake a great little town into something else, that would fit their idea of " Great " or in the name of progress, and move Emporia into the future by spending millions of taxpayer dollars that are and never were there, would never be there, without bankrupting every taxpaying citizen in Emporia . You can only ask or demand so much from the people, before the people stand up and say " Enough is Enough " .

The " Future " is a very " Fickle Mistress " and is absolutely " Non-Predictable " or absolutely set in " Stone " .And can not be rushed or hurried, no matter how much you spend to try and get there.

September 2, 2010 at 8:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

Well cooter, you must be right.

If you can't figure it out, see the above from Methusla. If you would rather just use Hyperbole, then your figure of $18.00 is right on the money. The difference between you and I is I base my observations on my personal facts. I don't throw out a figure of, "LIke18 Dollars" and expect someone to nod their head and agree with it.
I didn't notice that much mean spiritedness on here until you posted. Just concern.

You want my suggestions on what to cut?

Well I will do that, if you stand behind your position with a name, you know your real name. i don't mind debating someone if i know who they are and WHERE THEY ARE COMING FROM.

It may be just my negativity , but judging from your views, you may be one of those government employees yearning for a pay raise.

So I will stick my neck out, if you want to.

Be a Man, (or a woman) and stand behind your words, otherwise you are no longer worth my time. JMO

September 2, 2010 at 9:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jaxson (anonymous) says...

correct me if I am wrong but wouldnt a home "valued" at 85,000 have an "assessed" valuation of around 9,800???

A home with an assessed valuation of 85,000 would have to be worth over 725,000...

I think cooter was asking what the tax increase would be on a modest home that is worth 85K.

September 2, 2010 at 9:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

jaxson, see meths above on a 10k assessed home. IT IS MORE THAN 18.00.

September 2, 2010 at 9:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

And i am still waiting for irish to tell me how much tax is too much?

September 2, 2010 at 9:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

So a question to you Irish;

How much?

How much is enough?

Give us a ballpark figure on what percentage of your income are YOU willing to pay

August 31, 2010 at 3:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

September 2, 2010 at 9:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

create,

You notice that in one of anonymous's posts they brought up the old tired issue of the smoking ban.

As an old navy man, I can agree that that ship has sailed, and I'm over it.

Why can't the people that won the debate get over it?

September 2, 2010 at 10:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jamesbordonaro (James Bordonaro) says...

While there is a great deal of discussion about the appropriateness of the county's proposed tax increase after having increased the sales tax it is worth keeping in mind that the sales tax passed by by a substantial majority. While I voted and advocated against the tax increase, it seems there are plenty of people who either believe the taxes aren't high enough yet or can be persuaded to believe that to be the case. Ironic when you consider that the Tea Party seems to be gaining strength on the national level when federal taxes for most people are at one of the lowest rates in decades.

September 2, 2010 at 11:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

netloafer (anonymous) says...

James

A little less than 16% of Emporia's registered voters voted in favor of the increase. I don't consider that a substantial majority. I suppose one could argue that by extrapolating the data it meant that 64% of Emporians approved of the increase, but I think that might be a flawed assumption. It could simply mean that a large number of Emporians have just tuned out, assuming that things aren't going to change and there doesn't seem to be a way to get our local government under control financially. They've just given in.

I certainly don't believe taxes aren't high enough yet for people to register their displeasure at the polls. They know that taxes here are too high. I think they may be considering other options - voting with their feet, refusing the fally prey to the "shop Emporia first" mantra, etc.

I think the Democrats here in Emporia and Lyon County would do well to consider getting behind the people on this issue. There is an opportunity for them to be the people's champion These taxes and tax increases are regressive and hit the people who can least afford them disproportinately. The people know this and I suspect the politicians do too. They just don't seem to be willing to listen and even when they do the response is lukewarm (I'll give you 3 mils instead of 5).

I honestly don't know what it will take to change this other than letting it all implode under its own weight or waiting til the people finally explode.

September 3, 2010 at 9:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

irishemporia (anonymous) says...

"And i am still waiting for irish to tell me how much tax is too much?"

Hi Steve,
Sorry to keep you waiting. I may have not been clear in my earlier post. Any unnecessary tax increase is too much, in my opinion. But, before calling a tax increase unnecessary, we need more information (Gazette, are you listening?). Example: (speaking hypothetically): say the city spends $100,000 on a expanding a pond at the golf course, but in doing so, saves $120,000 in irrigation fees, then is that tax increase worth it?
What if the city holds off on raises this year, and next year, and the year after that? Sounds good for the taxpayers. But, after a few years, city salaries start lagging behind other comparable jobs. Will we be able to keep the quality employees or will they jump to other jobs. And, if they do leave, will we be able to hire quality workers to replace them?

I too would like any public agency to take a hard look at their budgets and trim the fat. However, there are some necessary expenditures, and cost increases can't be avoided. There may be a need for some tax increase.

As far as the smoking ban (I'm gonna get flamed for this), but I've noticed that the folks who are the most anti-government on these forums are also the folks who lost the smoking ban and the tax extension. What they may not remember is that the public (I'm one of them) approved both of those issues.

OK folks, flail away!!

September 3, 2010 at 10:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

irish,

I would imagine that you put me in the catagory of one of those who lost the smoking ban arguement and therefore am against government, period .

However you could not be more wrong .

1. I am not against goverment.
2. I am only against overspending in
government, unnecessary
overspending in government, that is.
4. I don' t smoke, so the smoking
ban did not and would not affect me.

First, of all expanding a pond at the golf course will not absolutely guarantee that in an exceptionally dry year, there would not be any extra expense for irrigation !
Secondly, will the thousands of dollars spent on the pond expansion guarantee that additional revenues will be gained at the golf course by doing so ?
Thirdly, the amount of salaries, wages paid to City employees of Emporia ... are compared to the City Empoyees of what other City or Cities ? If the City of Emporia employees, no matter what position they hold, are expected to be paid the same wages/salaries of a City 2,3,4,5, even 10 times the size of Emporia is just not an acceptable wage/salary comparison .

My whole dissillusionment with our local governments is the fact that they continually, insessantly spend more than the tax revenues that they collect.
And when the single largest expenditure in the City Budget is Personnel Services/wages&salaries, to me that means that repairing and maintaing the Citys infrastructure is taking a back seat to wages and salaries . Also when the City Budget shows total expenditures of $ 19,629,509 and the expenditure for wages/salaries/merit raises is 75.4% of the total expenditures or $11,278,938, then there is something totally " upside down " in the budget expenditures . It is no wonder that the Streets are going to " pot (holes ), the refuse/sewer fees are outrageous, and water rates are skyrocketing, etc., etc.

irish, let me ask you, how long could you yourself and your family survive if you handled or run your personal finances, by constantly spending more than your income ?

September 3, 2010 at 11:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

Methusla, unfortunately your last question doesn't work too well in this day and age. You can buy a house with payments more than you can afford........ and the government will come along and bail you out...... of course, they don't have the money to do it either, so we keep the house of cards propped up as long as we can.

But someday....... a strong wind is going to come along...... and there will be those that are surprised..... and those that aren't......

September 3, 2010 at 1:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

The posts on this papers website are no more negative or positive than any other newspapers or magazines website. Check out the blogs on the Topeka, Wichita, of Kansas City papers and see for yourself.

To close on a positive note, Everyone please have a safe, and fun extended weekend holiday!

September 3, 2010 at 3:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

romano1784 (anonymous) says...

I gotta throw my two cents in on cooters "negativity" speech. I've gone all over the net looking in forums that range from the Gazette to Forbes and Newsweek. All seem to have the same idea floating around, people have had enough. We are tired of seeing our checks get smaller, we're tired of spending 7x more now than we spent five years ago in groceries. We're tired of funding a government that can't even partially explain where our money goes. We're tired of seeing test scores in our schools drop because the taxes we pay to supliment the schools are routed somewhere else, thus causing education to drop. We're tired of being told its for the good of the children, we're tired of being told that we must pay to fight of terrorists. We're tired of new construction wasting our tax dollars just because another city is doing it. In short, if you check the blogs and forums all over the country you will see the same general theme. We're tired, and its time Emporians, Newtans, Los Angelinos, Americans as a whole said enough is a enough.

September 3, 2010 at 3:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...

cooter says...
"The level of mean-spirited nastiness on this format is unbelievably ugly, and it presents a none-too-flattering face of Emporia. I don't agree that this is just a part of small town life. It's a symptom, in my opinion, of a broken community."

Hmmmm. We just do online what other towns do in town halls and online. These forums are what makes Emporia like smaller places like Stars Hollow:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YYmww...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8K5gZ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUBcIh...

Lorelai says....
"A sense of community is so important, isn't it?"

☺

September 3, 2010 at 3:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

REWBA (anonymous) says...

I think that people look at what they can see and ask themselves: Is this fair?

When a property that can be measured in square feet is paying more property tax than a property that is measured in square miles then that question is asked.

When a property without paved roads, curbs, sidewalks and street lighting pays the same mill levy as property with new streets, curbs, sidewalks and street lighting then that question is asked.

When public servants who are paid six digit salaries advocate a tax increase on people who are unemployed or underemployed then that question is asked.

Let me tell ya if you haven't figured it out yet, Life isn't fair so quit asking that question and pay up!

If you have to pay more it is because you supposedly have more so rejoice in your success! Remember, a portion of the trickle down theory still functions and that is the part where you raise your prices and pass the costs onto your customers. That's the reality of life and it's nothing new.

September 3, 2010 at 4:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mslater (Matt Slater) says...

Wealth that could be used to fuel economic growth and development and restore jobs in the private sector is being used to sustain government jobs - several of which have questionable value even before you consider how generously they are paid.

September 3, 2010 at 4:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

biscuitboy (anonymous) says...

Hi guys and girls.....I'm back!

September 3, 2010 at 6:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...

Hey, biscuitboy! Is it really you this time? it really was you last time, but it was an old post on an old thread someone had revived.
Great to see you on here again. Was just thinking yesterday as I drove by that it has been awhile and I should stop and check up on you again.

September 3, 2010 at 11:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

railroadhorn (anonymous) says...

Maybe this might be helpful: A mill is 1/1000th of a dollar. The millage rate multiplies the assessed value of property by a specified millage.

For example, a home valued at $100,000, assessed at $35,000 (a 35% taxable value). At an 8 millage rate hike, the home owner would pay $280.00 more annually (35,000 x .001) x 8 =$280.00)

September 4, 2010 at 12:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sandman (anonymous) says...

Couldn't sleep so here I am. Cooter,gee, can I take your figure of $18.00 to the courthouse when I pay my taxes? I believe most of us would truly prefer that figure but it is NOT reality. THAT is WHY we state here and OTHER places concerning various DEBATABLE subjects. I am so very glad you were NOT among the founding fathers of this nation, by what you've said, you would have ran back to England.(opps, swam!)
What truly scares me is the fact 2012, by what I have read, is going to be the hardest year of all, tax wise, this is TRULY just the beginning. When you look at the city/county, how many are "seniors" and on fixed incomes? I understand there won't be any increases for seniors in 2010,11 and 12.(which there wasn't in 2010-our nation/state/county/city is BROKE!!! ) but they raise the taxes (highest in state) and we are to jump for joy???????Fact is, CUT BACK!!!!! BEFORE you lose more taxpayers and businesses!!!

September 4, 2010 at 2:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sandman (anonymous) says...

Sorry create, in rereading what I've written, should have been "MAY I take" and nation/state/county/city ARE broke.
Proofread/Proofread. May I count that against being tired????

I love music and the song that comes to mind is "Stayin Alive"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-)

September 4, 2010 at 2:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

biscuitboy (anonymous) says...

REWBA

Your 4:08 p.m. post was right on.

oh4theluvof

Yes, it's really me.....and Thank You. The next time you are in the neighborhood stop by, Biscuit has finished the book you left for him

September 4, 2010 at 3:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

railroadhorn (anonymous) says...

You know I didn't think Mr. Walker had it in him, but this editorial is one that would have made his great-grandpa proud. You've hit on something good so stay with it. Cast your lot with those of us who are yearing for change.

September 4, 2010 at 12:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

REWBA (anonymous) says...

About two weeks ago I noticed a good looking man walking along 6th avenue with two small dogs. I wondered if one of those dogs was named biscuitboy. I regret not stopping to find out. It's good to see your handle on these threads again biscuitboy!

September 4, 2010 at 12:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...

biscuitboy:
By "finished" so you mean finished reading it or finished eating it? j/k ☺ (just some dog humor--I don't know if he chews things up) I promise to swing by again one of these days....hopefully soon.

September 4, 2010 at 1:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

biscuitboy (anonymous) says...

REWBA

If he was a good looking man chances are good it was not me or biscuitboy. :-)

Seriously though, it's good to be back. And the return has been made better by the welcome I've received from you,create, sandman, oh4 and others. I want to enjoy it while it last....:-) :-) :-)

September 4, 2010 at 2 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

Welcome back,
Your dreams were your ticket out.

Welcome back,
To that same old place that you laughed about.

Well the names have all changed since you hung around,
But those dreams have remained and they're turned around.

Who'd have thought they'd lead ya (Who'd have thought they'd lead ya)
Here where we need ya (Here where we need ya)

Yeah we tease him a lot cause we've hot him on the spot, welcome back,
Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVS3WN...

September 4, 2010 at 2:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mslater (Matt Slater) says...

Hey, welcome back BB!

September 4, 2010 at 3:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sandman (anonymous) says...

Serious, how awesome!!!!!! You are so very talented!!!!! Yes, they all fit biscuitboy, he was missed. Now later on I might not say that!!!! Be ready to wring his neck when he throws something in with his "logic"!!! Yes, good to know he is safe.

September 4, 2010 at 5:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

emporian (anonymous) says...

Sandman, did you say a couple posts back you couldn't sleep. Kinda ironic don't you think.

September 4, 2010 at 8:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sandman (anonymous) says...

No emporian, nothing ironic about it. Sandman helps OTHERS to sleep not necessarily himself. Have a super rest!!!!

September 4, 2010 at 11:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

alfalfa (anonymous) says...

Seems to me the county budget is much more responsible than the city budget, a deficit budget is not responsible in my eyes.

All things considered, the more local the tax, the more you get for your tax dollar. County taxes pay for fire, ambulance, Sheriff, roads, etc. Nobody including me likes higher taxes. So, what are we going to cut? I will bet my last dollar if the county took an ax to the budget both Walker and Sauder would be screaming bloody murder they cut the wrong things, as would half the people in the county.

Whenever there is an election for county commission, only a very tiny fraction of the population of each district run for office(like 2 people). Even more sickening is how few people vote. With all the hell raising in this country(and this part of the world) one would think our voting rates would be 80%, and every office up for grabs would attract 10 candidates, but that never seems to be the case.

Want to know where most of our problems originate? With apathetic voters.

September 4, 2010 at 11:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

I'll have to agree with you on the apathy, alfalfa. Even in the last election held here not long ago, the turnout wasn't that great even though we had a serious tax question on the ballot.

sandman, thanks for watching your language structure. LOL. I guess once an English teacher always an old curmudgeon. Or so I've been told on these forums. LOL LOL LOL.

Here's the best of all. I like your choice of "Stayin' Alive". Look at the background on this video and you'll see how very appropriate it is to this property tax issue we've been discussing. Staying alive, indeed.

http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/vide...

September 5, 2010 at 9:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sandman (anonymous) says...

create, thanks for the video-yes, very fitting.Afraid if they keep raising taxes there will be more and more of us just trying to "stay alive".If my understanding is correct, no pay raises for seniors but yet they are raising medical etc to them. Now, this property tax increase. For those on "fixed" income, there won't be anything left after paying taxes. Yet, I understand, the congress voted themselves an INCREASE!!!! Plus they don't pay medical unlike the TAXPAYER who pays their salaries. Yes!!!! life is such a WONDERMENT!!!!Yes, I have worked on elections and how it saddens me on numbers that actually get out and vote. A chance for their voices to be heard!!!! I will say though it isn't your seniors!!!!! We go to the nursing homes to give them the opportunity to vote and YES!!! they are so very appreciative and they DO vote!!!!!!

September 5, 2010 at 2:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

You're right about no pay raises for seniors, but a raise in medical to take place. Go figure. They say no raise because there has been no rise in the cost of living index. I wonder where they live? I'd like to show them how my grocery bill has risen. Hmmm, can we count property taxes in that index?

You're also right about we seniors who vote in large numbers. I always notice that on election day when I go, there always seems to be a large number of seniors there. Maybe it's because it's so early in the morning and most seniors are early-risers. On the other hand, I also see more seniors at the cemetery on Memorial Day than I do any other age group. Are we the only ones who still remember? I can't help but think that when we baby boomers are all gone, the collective attitude in this country will have changed.

September 6, 2010 at 7:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...

create:
I think that maturity has a lot to do with the higher turnout for older people. I believe that the last generation to value voting in their youth was the Greatest generation and I would bet that in the younger, hippie years of the baby boomer generation that they widely ignored their right to vote. I have no data to point to to back this up, only a knowledge of the collective baby boomer sentiment as it has morphed over the decades. Hopefully, the generations since then will also come to value the American political process as they mature and hopefully the trend will return to new voters caring about their votes. Time will tell, but in a country of self-absorbed, emotionally weak individuals, it does seem unlikely.
It is good to know that the boomers are finally acknowledging the fallen (esp. from their generation in the Vietnam War) in an appreciative way. I hope that the generations following will also come to appreciate the sacrifices of our former classmates, neighbors and relatives in the Middle East and then of the former ones from earlier wars.

September 6, 2010 at 9:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

Well, create, I know I certainly count property taxes and sales taxes as a cost of living expense ! After-all do these taxes not add to the " Cost of living " ?

September 6, 2010 at 10:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

P.S.

Also if these types of taxes are not figured in the " Cost of living Index " ... they certainly should be.

September 6, 2010 at 10:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

Also, here is something else to think about. Walmart, the " Save Money Live Better " place to shop, has raised prices on almost every item by 15% over the las two years .

And someone says that the cost of living has not gone " UP " ! Wonder where they are living. They are certainly not living in Emporia or Lyon County !

September 6, 2010 at 10:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

biscuitboy (anonymous) says...

I remember back during the run-up to the election to raise the sales tax prior to the last run-up for the election to raise the sales tax listening to the head of the county road department pleading for voters to approve the increase. He was explaining that we just didn't realize how much everything cost now-a-days. He lamented that the cost of fuel, tires, supplies, equipment, everything had gone up greatly and to get by they just had to have more money.

I just wanted to shake him. How dare he intimate that I didn't understand. Of course I understood. My cost for everything had gone up as well, the only difference was that I didn't have a sales tax that I could increase to bolster my income. In fact, since that next to the last vote to increase the sales tax was passed my income has still not gone up one red cent. In fact, this year it has taken a dramatic drop.

In the interest of full disclosure, I did vote for both increases. But this idea that many in government have that we taxpayers are the only ones that need to cut and sacrifice needs to change. I don't mind making sacrifices for the overall good....but I want those sacrifices to be a two way street.

September 6, 2010 at 11:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

biscuit, First of all, welcome back !

I like you, don' t mind it when I am asked by the " Commissioners, et al " if I would make a small sacrafice for the good of all.

But, when I attend a " Commission " meeting, especially when asked by the " Commissions, School Board, et al " to attend and make suggestions as to what I can do without or less, in the way of " services " and to suggestions as to where to make cuts ... and I do so, only to hear, " But we cannot do that or we will take that suggestion into consideration " or thank you for your " Comments " . When all the time they know full well that they are not going to give and credence or thought to any suggestions or thoughts, as they have already made up their minds as to what they are going to do.

Its kinda like going to a barber, who is a serial killer. You get conversation, at times a thank you and then you get your throat cut anyway.

September 6, 2010 at 1:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )