The last time the city of Emporia posted a job opening for paramedics, two qualified individuals were interested in the job.
One lived in Newton and one in Topeka. Neither could relocate because of family commitments, said Jack Taylor, Emporia fire chief. Because the city requires all employees to live within Lyon County, neither was hired.
In the previous job posting, two paramedics from Johnson County applied, said Brandon Beck, assistant fire chief and EMS service director. Both couldn’t or weren’t willing to move to Lyon County.
Emporia is short on paramedics, a situation that is troubling for several reasons, officials say. Besides the risk of not having enough paramedics to treat victims of a major accident or multiple simultaneous incidents, current employees are in danger of being overworked. When asked to come in on their day off, they rarely do.
Other communities, such as Manhattan, have solved this dilemma by allowing paramedics to live outside of the county where they work.
To read complete story see the print edition or the online print edition.
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
my son is a fire fighter / emt with more than 5 years of experience. he just left the air force as a sarg. however he went right back in as a contractor to the air force. because of his qualifications and experience, he had a job in 3 days. he didn't even consider lyon county because of the painfully low pay. maybe emporia and lyon county will consider this in the future.
October 19, 2010 at 1:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
oh and the pay for emt/ fire fighters in lyon county/ emporia is $11,000 a year...
October 19, 2010 at 1:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
emporian (anonymous) says...
No it isn't.
October 19, 2010 at 1:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
big surprise, the writer got it wrong. again!
October 19, 2010 at 2 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
actually it is. that is why my son is a contractor now. of course he also speaks arabic, which made a huge difference....
October 19, 2010 at 2:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
emporian (anonymous) says...
$33k is the starting. Maybe for a part time job. You have no idea what you are talking about.
October 19, 2010 at 2:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
ummm sure, that is why a city employee complained about their wage was 11,000 a year...
October 19, 2010 at 2:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
full time employee no less!
October 19, 2010 at 2:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
TexasGirl (anonymous) says...
$11,000 for a full-time employee would be less than minimum wage; that's not possible.
October 19, 2010 at 2:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
salary is exempt from hourly wage rules. and salary employees work longer hours. if you divide the actual numbers worked to the salary, it always less than minimum wage. always has always will.
October 19, 2010 at 2:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
oh and i had a friend that was also a fire fighter/ ems. that person went to kc because the 11,000 a year SALARY from lyon co wasn't enough to live on.
October 19, 2010 at 2:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
It appears to me that other than low pay (whatever it really is), one of the problems plaguing this whole system of paramedics and fireman is these shifts that they work. It not only invites...but encourages, moonlighting where for many of these people their other job is their primary job. They just work for the city as a past time. That in turn makes it very easy for them to refuse call-ins and pretty much do what they want to.
Why is it deemed so important for these people to work the shifts they work where they work like port and starboard days then end up with four, five, or more days off in a row allowing them to work another full time job. Especially since those twenty four hour shifts frequently ends up with a portion of every shift being spent eating and resting.
October 19, 2010 at 3:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
It sounds to me like scarletto1 98 is in fact coming up with that salary figure by basing the pay on an eight hour day.....then adding into the day all that sleeping and eating time....then coming up with an hourly rate roughly one third of what the actual pay rate is/ Nice accounting if you can make it work.
October 19, 2010 at 3:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
One question please !
Can the taxpayers of Emporia, really afford to pay any more high paid City employee positions ? After all we have at least half a dozen or more very highly paid or over paid individuals working for the City now, that are a real tax burden.
We must remember, what can Emporia and its taxpayers " afford " !
Perhaps these half dozen or so well paid City administrators, etc., would donate 20% or their wage to a fund to help pay a higher wage in order to attract " EMTS " to Emporia !
October 19, 2010 at 3:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
agree biscuit, my son does make dinosaur dollars on salary. he's not even 25 yet. however he is on duty 96 hours a week. divide the hours by the salary and its not as much as you would think. where he is stationed, he can not leave the base, or even get close to the fences. emporia/ lyon co fire fighters have to work a second job to make ends meet.
October 19, 2010 at 3:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
agree meth! sorry about the sideways thinking. i blame the "neurological imparement" thanks dr rollerskate ! ; )
October 19, 2010 at 3:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
this is fun... i do have a broken body, and i am missing a significant piece of brain. trapped in a house alone 19 hours a day but i do have the internet to look at!
October 19, 2010 at 4:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oops (anonymous) says...
BB,
I typed in why they work 24 hr shifts into yahoo. It seems the biggest response to the 24 hr shifts is it is cheaper. Most FDs operate on 3 shift systems. To go to say an 8 hr day would require the addition of a 4th shift. So you would have to add another 10 (I don't know how many emporia has) firemen. At least that is what my 10 minutes of research shows.
October 19, 2010 at 4:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mslater (Matt Slater) says...
I say that in order to live permanently in Emporia, you must be a resident of Lyon County. Is that too much to ask?
October 19, 2010 at 4:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
all fire fighters/ ems work 24 hour shifts, most get 48 off after. some, like my son, work 48 on and 24 off. others work 24 on and 24 off. hence the 96 hour work week. when my son was in california, fighting wild fires, they didn't spend any time sleeping while on duty and they went to 48 hour shifts. they also ate mre's during that time, no time off to go back to the station to eat. yes the usaf was working along side the civilans on those fires.
October 19, 2010 at 5:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
oops
Makes sense I guess especially since they are not normally required to be at a machine or doing manual work for the entire twenty four period. Thereby giving them time on duty to eat, watch TV and sleep.
It's just always seemed strange to me that with the exception of people that work and live on boats, firemen and EMT's are about the only people that eat and sleep as part of their job. I guess I'm just jealous because I could never get paid for sleeping at work...lol :-)
October 19, 2010 at 5:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
scarlett01 98
Yes...but fighting wildfires in the California mountains is hardly the same as working here in Emporia, Kansas. And even if it was fighting those fires does not go on 24/7/365. So they work intensely hard when there is a fire to fight. But when there is no fire to fight they have a lot of time on duty when they eat and sleep and watch TV.
The same would happen with local firefighters and EMT's if we were to have a major catastrophe...but thank goodness we don't have a major catastrophe every day, every month, or even once a year.
I once worked on Pusher Tugs pushing oil barges up and down the inter-coastal canal between Port Arthur, Texas and Eglin Air Force base in Florida. We worked twenty days on the boat and ten days off. When we were making or breaking tows...or locking through New Orleans....we worked long hours and hard. But most of those days we worked eight to ten hours of moderate work and spent a lot of time eating great meals, playing poker, and sleeping.
Most firefighters probably work much the same way.
October 19, 2010 at 5:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
civilian firefighters, do get to eat sleep watch tv. usaf fire dogs, are in a truck sitting on the tarmac anytime there are jets in the air. they got to eat or do anything else when the pilots were on the ground. most had to do this at least 12 hours at a time.. after being on a air force base, i know that jets fly almost around the clock. those that weren't on a truck, had to answer calls for everything else on the base. they also had to assist civilians in surrounding towns.
fire fighters do have down time, and they don't work 24/7/365, but they are the ones running in a burning building or plane, when everyone else is running out. my son is my hero. i know to sappy.....
working on a boat sounds like a good time. i love hard work, not that i have a choice now. : (
October 19, 2010 at 6:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
KellyD (anonymous) says...
This is a very interesting conversation. It does not seem like the few of you here really have a good knowledge about the job of a firefighter/emt/paramedic in Emporia. I would hope that in the future when one of you needs an emergency service at 3 am, that those firemen and paramedic, don't tell you "sorry we are busy sleeping". Rarely do many of those EMT's and Paramedics get to sleep all night. Many are busy running calls and taking transfers from the hospital here in Emporia to one where the care can be provided, whether KU, WESLEY OR STORMONT. They do not get to take naps to get ready for the night of calls. You all better be thankful there are people around willing to do such work. Why don't you all you naysayers walk a mile in there shoes for a day and see what you think. It seems so easy to judge and so hard to be thankful.
October 19, 2010 at 7:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
kelly d, i do have a good knowledge of the job. and i have been carried out of my house at 3 am, to newman.
there was a time, while having the last stroke, i had to wait in newmans er, for more than 4 1/2 hours so i could be transported to wichita.
i believe fire/ems was really busy and short handed that day. i have the utmost respect for fire/ ems, so don't get me wrong. i think they should be paid a lot more.that has been my point all along. sometimes i get sidetracked. .
October 19, 2010 at 7:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
umm actually that was my original point.
October 19, 2010 at 8:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
NEParamedic (anonymous) says...
As a Nebraska Paramedic and former Emporian, I can tell you that not all EMS systems work off a 24hr shift.
Wichita, KS for example is a 12hr department. AMR in Topeka is a 12hr/24hr system. The former MAST system in Kansas City used multiple shift configurations including 8hr, 10hr, 12hr and 24hr days. Emporia is a unique system where they are the sole transporting agency in Lyon County and they provide interfacility transports to Topeka, Wichita and Kansas City. Anything less than a 12hr shift is not a practical solution. Too many times crews would be on a interfacility transport when their shift ended and that would create an overtime issue. Going to a 12hrs system would require more Paramedics and if you cant find them now how will you find them if you change the shift configuration?
For those of you that think that EMS and Paramedics spend their day sleeping you are sadly mistaken. EMS professionals spend their days ensuring that their trucks and equipment are ready to respond to your requests for service. They spend time reviewing protocols, maps and policies so that they can find you and know what to do when you call.
Several of you make it sound like anyone can be a EMT or a Paramedic, well how many of you are willing to get up, throw your clothes on, jump in an ambulance, respond in 5 minutes or less (to the scene) and then fully function (both mentally and physically) at 3am to a heart attack or a GI bleed or a fatallity car accident?
EMS as a profession is grossly under paid for the stuff we put up with. National statistics will prove this. Compare the national wages of Emergency Room Registered Nurses to that of a Paramedic and you will see the difference.
The fact that many EMS providers have second jobs has a lot less to do with the pay and a lot more to do with boredom,
Typically a Paramedic will only work 2 days a week, that leaves 5 days to sit around or 5 days to work. Many of us choose a second job, whether that is in EMS (hugh personel shortages in EMS) or another venue it is because we want to not that we have to.
The issue is whether to allow city employees to live outside the County.
I would have concerns with a department that was made up of EMS providers who travel into Emporia to work. With that said, I would also have a bigger issue with a community the size of Emporia and Lyon County returning to an EMS system without Paramedics.
The city needs to look at some form of hire on bonus for those that they hire who will move to Emporia and then maintain residency for a set period of time.
Emporians should be proud of their Fire Department and EMS system. Rest assured that by no means are the Emporia Firefighters in the poor house but they are not paid what they are worth.
October 19, 2010 at 8:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
I never said they spend their day sleeping. I am more familiar with firemen than EMT's so I will speak more of them. But I know they work and train during part of the shift, but that certainly doesn't cover the full 24 hours, I know they spend some time eating and preparing meals because I frequently see them, or paramedics, at Country Mart South buying groceries while in uniform and driving emergency vehicles. I also know when they are through with work and training and there are no fires to fight they also have facilities for sleeping. I know this because I have been in those facilities.
But I agree with NEParamedic about a couple of things. One is that I question the wisdom of allowing staff whose job it is to respond to real emergencies night or day to live in places far removed from where they are needed. If the City can't depend on them to respond when they live right here in the county....what makes us think they will respond to an emergency from Newton or Topeka.
And isn't responding to emergencies what we really pay them for anyway? Isn't having them available for emergencies why we are willing to have them there 24/7 whether they be working, training, eating, or sleeping?
October 19, 2010 at 9:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
What I know is, when my father and myself worked for the City of Emporia, it was a requirement that we be a resident of the City of Emporia .
October 20, 2010 at 12:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Another question that has " bugged " me since this discussion first started is, just how far outside the county and city will be too far outside the county or City ?
I mean, are Paramedics/EMTS' going to be allowed to live in, for instance, Johnson, Segewick, Osage, Southern Greenwood, Riley, Shawnee counties, and be from 30 min. to 60 min. or more away if needed for a critical emergency ?
Just how far is going to be too far away and what would be the point in calling someone in if it is going to take longer than 10 or 15 min. for them to get here in an emergency !
After all are they not considered as " EMERGENCY " personnel ?
October 20, 2010 at 12:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
scarlett01 98
I loved working on the tugboats. Might well have made that my life's work but I had a young wife at the time that didn't like being left at home by herself for twenty days at a time.
So I reluctantly let the job go only to soon learn for the first of two times in my life that when you give up a job to keep a wife you soon learn you should have kept the job. Oh well....Turn the Page......
October 20, 2010 at 5:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justaflushaway (anonymous) says...
here we go again, tell the gazette to go take a picture, after the story is written showing only five of the fire dept,( including where are the rest of those protecting emporia and lyon county), dont tell me the rest were busy, and could you not get a group(ALL OF THEM fireman, emts, officers, AND ALL OTHERS) who get a paycheck in the picture?? let your readers see where their money is going and also see who we have in the dept to protect us, oh forgot, its hard to get them tp come in on their days off, well if they are so over worked, maybe a group picture would help, its for their own good. if they want to help bring people in from other places.
Maybe the gazette should actually print the actual wages of each section broken down to enclude everyone in those depts. it should not be a hidden item from the tax payers, we all know how much zimmy makes, or do we really??????
that way it will put a STOP to how much they actually make, but not bring up thier outside jobs, who would turn down any of them asking for a job? probably none...and I have no problem with anyone working 2 jobs, I remember those days
JMO....oh cant wait on this one
October 20, 2010 at 9:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dhcc66 (anonymous) says...
Does anybody in this discussion realize that we have full time EMT's and Paramedics in the station 24/7? From what I understand, they work on 24 off 24 and then at the end of several of those shifts, they get three in a row off. The only time that they may have to respond to a catastrophe from their house is when they get called in from being on their days off, which could include days they are in Wichita, KC, or Topeka shopping or eating, just like a lot of us do on our days off.
During their working day in addition to calls for service, they have to maintain equipment, train, do presentations, check fire hydrants, do fire inspections...and on..and on...and on.
As far as salaries for fire and medics, or for that matter any other public servant, they are easily accessable as they are public knowledge. I would suggest calling the city to ask where to find the list.
Lastly, PLEASE do not do away with the paramedics in Emporia. I know a few people here in town and have seen a few who have been passing through town and had an accident who are still alive today because of the fine staff, both medics and EMT's. Folks, you get what you pay for.
October 21, 2010 at 12:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Am I missing something here?????
October 21, 2010 at 9:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dhcc66 (anonymous) says...
no biscuit, that wasn't directed at you. it's just all the other comments above that make the assumption that the firemen and paramedics are overpaid and they have to respond from their homes for calls to service.
now, for anybody who wants a taste of what being a fireman is really like...they do take volunteers in the city and county....
October 21, 2010 at 4:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Thank you dhcc66. I wasn't sure what was happening there.
I certainly agree with the hard nature of the job during an emergency. The reason I brought up the type of hours they worked in the first place was a vaguely formed idea that the very type of shifts they work might either overtly, or covertly, contribute to some of the problems experienced in hiring them.
October 21, 2010 at 4:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )