A deal to sell the north end of an Emporia park to a Baptist church for $5,000 will be complete Wednesday if city leaders decide to rezone the property.
The Twelfth Avenue Baptist Church is attempting to rezone 66,830 square feet (or about 1.5 acres) of land in Woodland Park, located between Woodland and Prairie streets just south of the church from public to low-density residential use. The sale of the property is contingent upon the rezoning.
The church has also asked for a conditional use permit to allow a church on that property, but the Emporia-Lyon County Metropolitan Area Planning Commission is recommending against the permit.
The Emporia City Commission will make the final decision regarding rezoning and the permit at its 7 p.m. Wednesday meeting.
It seems the church has no current plans for the property. The church referred an interview request to Jay VanderVelde, an attorney representing the church in this matter. VanderVelde in turn declined to comment on future use of the property, saying the church’s rezoning application speaks for itself.
The application listed the proposed use of property as church, but according to a draft of meeting minutes VanderVelde told the planning commission at its Sept. 28 meeting there are no future plans for the particular property.
“He (VanderVelde) did not feel that the property would be used for any type of structure but could possibly be used for parking, at some later date,” the minutes state.
Besides the existing building, the church owns several pieces of property behind houses on Prairie Street, which is already zoned residential.
The city would like to have the new portion be consistent with the rest, said Becky Samuelson, city GIS coordinator. Nothing can be built in a public use zone.
The land being purchased by the church is the north portion of the park, which contains a picnic shelter. The majority of the park acts as a storm retention area. That portion is noticeably lower than the other sections of the park.
The purchase would not include any of the retention area, Samuelson said.
If a building permit for the land is requested later, the city Engineering Department would have to look into how the retention area would be impacted.
City Manager Matt Zimmerman said the church originally approached the city about buying Woodland Park a few years ago. The city was interested because the church would take over the mowing and maintenance duties. The $5,000 price was based on the appraised price of the land, Zimmerman said.
Although he agreed there seems to be no current plans, neighbor George Lodle of 936 Prairie St. said he didn’t want to have a building located close to his property.
Lodle said the park is used somewhat frequently by young people to play soccer or run around. They usually play in the south portion of the park, unless it’s being used to drain a heavy rain, he said.
“The park gets utilized quite a bit,” he said.
Zimmerman said it would be up to the church whether to put up signs or a fence to distinguish its property from the rest of the park.
The planning commission voted 6-0 with one abstention to recommend approval of the rezoning but not the conditional use permit. If the city commission follows that recommendation, the church would have to apply for a conditional use permit later if it intends to build anything, even a parking lot, Samuelson said.
On another matter, the planning commission recommended approval of a conditional use permit for the Epsilon-Epsilon Chapter of Sigma Pi to have a fraternity or sorority at 1304 Exchange St. with a limitation of 10 members living there. The property has been used most recently as rental units, though in the 1990s it was a sorority.
The city commission will also consider that request Wednesday evening.
justthefacts (anonymous) says...
Seems the only expansion going on in Emporia is that by churches. Maybe local businesses should ask the Almighty for His business plan.
October 16, 2010 at 7:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
gg (anonymous) says...
$5,000 for 1.5 cres within the city limits? Where I can I sign up for a deal like that? Yet another example of the "good ole boys club" here in Emporia.
October 17, 2010 at 5:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
A church being allowed to try and influence government policy ! Is that sort of thing allowed ?
October 17, 2010 at 10:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
gg
I kinda wondered about that myself but didn't want to bring it up for fear of more crying about how I just hate religion.
But that being the case, there is a piece of Jones Park that I will take at the same rate. Thank You very much in advance!
October 18, 2010 at 4:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Not much there really. No street access and doesn't it flood every time it rains? Sell it and let the church mow it. I am wondering more what the city is going to do with the old arts building on Mechanic street.
October 18, 2010 at 6:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Part of it floods Steve but that is not the part they are wanting to buy. You are right though there is not much there .....in fact I don't think there is any public access to a street for the part they want.
Does the city own that that building on Mechanic Street?
October 18, 2010 at 7:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Sorry Steve I see you had already pointed out its lack of access to a street.
October 18, 2010 at 7:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Well,... about the first time the church does something with the property that interferes with water drainage at the storm season, I' ll bet that the adjacent property owners will not be happy about it !
Is the idea of " Seperation of church and state " just a one way proposition ?
October 18, 2010 at 7:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
blulitespecial (anonymous) says...
I'd have to agree about the water problem there.To avoid future owners of the property wanting to raise the elevation or drainage flow there,the city should keep the property.It's only been 15 years since the flood water was pretty deep there.I didn't go down 9th that day,but 12th was a foot deep.The side streets were at least 6-8" deep.Any change in drainage at the fairgrounds might head that way,too.I think there's a reason it's a park and undeveloped property.
October 18, 2010 at 9:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Quack (anonymous) says...
Methusla:
Shouldn't the church be required to go through the same land use requirements that everyone else does? And they are. You are implying special treatment, so tell us where that is in this case? They are going through the zoning process, There was a public hearing in the Planning Commission, and the City Commission will neet in public. Anyone could have/can appear to oppose the issue if they wish. Seperation of Church and State doctrine does not apply, There is no attempt to establish or support a religion. They are being treated just like everyone else.
October 18, 2010 at 9:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
SFIns (anonymous) says...
I think Zippy needs to check his numbers again. The park is valued at almost $52,000 and has 4.7 acres. Do the math and it comes out to over $16,000 for the 1.5 acres they want to buy. Maybe this is why the city is in such a financial mess. They can't do simple math and are losing over $10,000 on this deal.
October 18, 2010 at 12:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
blulitespecial (anonymous) says...
SFIns-it does sound like a good deal! They'd have to be crazy to build there,but want it zoned.Picture this- 10 years from now,they demand the city abandon the park,put in a street,and sewer causeway at city expense.Residential lots opened up - Big bucks for the major owner of the property there.Then everybody floods out.
October 18, 2010 at 12:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sail (anonymous) says...
Just a thought, dont you have to put pulic property up for auction??
October 18, 2010 at 12:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
“He (VanderVelde) did not feel that the property would be used for any type of structure but could possibly be used for parking, at some later date,” the minutes state.
And then there is the following !
The church has also asked for a conditional use permit to allow a church on that property, but the Emporia-Lyon County Metropolitan Area Planning Commission is recommending against the permit.
Exactly what are the plans for the property , " Build a Church or build a parking lot ? There is already quite a large parking lot at the " church " proper itself . I believe that the City needs to do more study and have an absolute " Iron Clad " statement/promise from the Church its leaders and parishoners that there will definately not be any sort of building or construction of any kind, In writing and signed by all parties involved, City, Church, adjacent property owners, etc., that any construction of any kind, whether it be parking lot, Church, fence, etc., that said construction will not interfere or change storm water drainage or add to the water retention problem that already exists at the property ? And that any such planned construction must be studied and approved by the City and all surrounding property owners that may be adversely affected by any construnction before any building permits are issued and before construction is started or can take place .
Does being designated as a church mean that the church may and can " skirt " the policies and laws of man or society, after all they also influence mans and societal policies, laws and yes at times even governments, do they not ?
After all they already have one huge advantage over the rest of man and society, they are allowed to take in millions of dollars and remain tax a tax free entity !
October 18, 2010 at 1:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
sail,
No public property does not necessarily have to put for public auction !
October 18, 2010 at 1:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Another question or scenario to think about is . If the Church aquires the property and builds a parking lot or a structure on the property and such construction changes the drainage/retention propertys of the property, just how much would the City be willing to spend for proper drainage to avert any damage and possible law suits by adjacent property owners for water damage, thousands, hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars or even closing a large area of 9th ave., because of flooding ? Now I am sure that property owners and taxpayers will surely agree to increased taxes to pay for such a thing !
Has anyone given any thought to the future possiblilities, especially at that location, which retains massive amounts of storm runoff anyway ?
October 18, 2010 at 2:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Do any of the so called community leaders get out and look at their/our city, not only in good times and fair weather, but also in bad times and bad weather and see first hand and know what is, has and may come about if they make the wrong decisions . I don' t even think most of them even know anything about Emporia, except in their own special section, that they happen to live in or who tell them it is in the best interests of all Emporians, whether it actually is or not !
October 18, 2010 at 2:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Then the question becomes, if the prospective buyer (I'm trying to keep all reference to religion out of my comments) does not want to improve the property....why do they want to buy it? Just so the city won't have to mow it.....I doubt it....
October 18, 2010 at 2:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
biscuit,
When I read that the proposed buyer of the property was asking for a conditional use permit to allow a church on the property, that answered my quiestion as to why they wanted it and at what seemed to be a very special price.
Shoot, an empty 50 foot by 100 foot lot in the City has a price of $ 1500 to $2000 dollars on it . And when you get into the " Lakes edition " empty lots can go for 5 to 10 times that amount and some are not 1.5 acres in size.
1.5 acres consists of 65,340 sq.ft., at $5000, that figures to approx. 8 cents per sq.ft. . That is one great deal !
Where as any other 50ft X100ft. lot at $2000 dollars figures to be $2.50 per sq. ft. ??????
October 18, 2010 at 3:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
blulitespecial (anonymous) says...
methusla- Lots in Americus go for 2500 or so.I imagine lots in Emporia are a lot higher than that.Might be a real estate Ponzi-scheme here.Wonder how many of those lots have an option to buy back if developed,depending on your contributions.
October 18, 2010 at 3:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
I hear you meth....
Like I said before, there is a little corner in Jones Park that I would gladly pay the city the same price for and it's no acre and a half either.
October 18, 2010 at 3:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )