An allegation of threats by a Lowther South Intermediate School student and a disagreement about Emporians for Drug Awareness surfaced Wednesday evening during a meeting of the Emporia board of education. The board also reviewed revisions and additions to the district’s bullying policies for students and for district employees.
Tenisha Baylor, parent of a fifth-grade student, told the board that her daughter had been threatened by another student.
“The same person has threatened to bring a gun to school, and the boy’s still in school,” Baylor said. “In the handbook, this is a Level 4 (violation) and he’s done it twice now, and I’m very concerned about the safety of my child and the safety of other students.”
One child involved has been prescribed medication and has been permanently removed from school for the remainder of the year because of the effect of the threats, Baylor said.
“Do we have any solutions for this?” she asked.
Baylor said the boy was being followed at school by teachers, but not all of the time.
“Can my daughter personally have another teacher follow her around then?” she asked.
Board president Mike Crouch said that Baylor needed to talk with the school principal about the problem and, if she is not satisfied, she should visit with Superintendent John Heim.
“The problem with that, though, is I’ve spoken with all those people and the only thing I keep getting is, ‘We’re doing an investigation.’ They’ve given me permission to take her out of school permanently, so apparently there is (a problem),” Baylor said.
Crouch told her that he was not attempting to push the allegation under the rug.
“We need to allow these folks to do the work, and everybody at the board table is aware of it,” Crouch said.
Bullying
The board approved changes and additions to the bullying policy for students, and added a new bullying policy to the district’s personnel policy.
For the students, the prohibitions on bullying in any form now includes “electronic means on or while using school property, in a school vehicle or at a school-sponsored activity or event ...”
The board also added the words “as appropriate” to the consequences for students who have violated the policy, stating that the student “shall” be subject to disciplinary action. The former policy stated that the student “may” be subject to discipline.
Board member Mike Helbert said that he disagreed with the revisions.
“I’ve always been in favor of letting our administrators have some discretion on that,” Helbert said. “… I’ve never thought that justice ought to be one size fits all, and I don’t know if it’s good to make it mandatory or whether it’s good to allow principals that freedom.”
Crouch explained that the verbiage in question had not changed the policy, because of the addition of “as appropriate” at the beginning of the sentence.
“It’s really saying the same thing it said before,” Crouch said, “it’s just worded a little differently. If it’s not appropriate to be disciplined, then they’ll deal with it accordingly.”
Member Glen Strickland moved to accept the revisions to the student policy and to accept the bullying policy for employees after modifying the word “may” to “shall” in the sentence that stated those who violate the policy “may” be subject to disciplinary action.
In both sections, those who violate the prohibition against bullying will be reported to law enforcement, if appropriate.
“I am going to vote against this for one reason,” Helbert said. “It is that if we have competent administrators, we don’t need to make it ‘shall’ if they’re following the directions we’ve given.”
The motion passed 6-1.
Drug Awareness
Heim told board members that the district does not have an agreement with Emporians for Drug Awareness, which uses office space and equipment, telephones and other amenities provided by the district.
“I thought that we did,” Heim said. “There is not an agreement in place with Emporians for Drug Awareness with regards to using the facility.”
EDA’s use of district facilities at no cost had been mentioned in the Performance-Based Budget report as an item to consider when trimming the budget; however, the EDA benefit was not included in the cuts.
Helbert said that he believed EDA should pay rent to the district. He said the EDA had used the “usd253.org” e-mail extensively in its lobbying in support of the ordinance banning smoking in public places in Emporia. Charities — 501(c)(3)s — are not allowed to lobby policitically, he said.
“During the entire time that that fight was going on, this was the e-mail address that was used in the forefront for Clean Air Emporia, usd253.org, and their literature said ‘Contact Teresa Walters at usd253.org,’” Helbert said. “That’s not appropriate for us to be engaging in political activities … and once again, it’s a violation of 501(c)(3). …”
Helbert said that he was involved in the ordinance campaigning; he was hired to represent opponents of the smoking ban, Emporia Open for Business.
“But the other side of this is that every civic organization that uses our facilities gets billed for it at fair market value,” Helbert said, adding that one of those instances had been approved earlier in the meeting.
“The other thing that disturbs me … is that I know that they were informed that they were not to be using this for political purposes, and they did it anyway,” Helbert said. “They thumbed their nose at you and thumbed their nose at federal law …”
Board member Angie Schreiber said that she had requested supporting documents from EDA, and that she did not believe the lobbying constituted a violation of law.
“They filed the appropriate report as lobbying expenditures, and they did provide expenditures to the city commission,” Schreiber said. “So to me … it was not a 501(c)(3) doing lobbying expenditures. It was money through a grant.”
Helbert responded, “What it does mean, though, that when you are soliciting for political money and political support using our — not their — our website, then that is what is shown to the public. The taxpayers of this community did not authorize us to support an organization that was going to do that, and that is what it says in the literature I’ve given you. I didn’t make this up. …
“When you tell them to contact your city commissioners and vote, and that they need to hear from you, I think that’s political,” Helbert said.
“Yeah, Mike, you’re a lawyer. You know they’re splitting hairs,” Schreiber said.
Strickland said that the good done by the EDA outweighs other considerations.
“The second thing, Mike, is that you were on the board at this time and … I don’t recall your saying anything,” Strickland said to Helbert.
Helbert said that he had talked to Heim about his concerns.
“And I was assured that they had been told not to do that,” Helbert said, adding that he had not mentioned his concerns to the board because he was professionally involved in the issue.
“By the same token, you were on the losing side of that,” Strickland said.
Crouch interrupted the exchange.
“I just want to caution us to not let political stances muddy the topic at the end,” Crouch said. “Everybody has their own political views and their opinions on political topics.”
Schreiber asked how much the district charges the Flint Hills Technical College for using some of the district’s buildings.
“If we’re going to talk about being fair and having a level playing field, we can go to the tech college that has multiple buildings,” she said of the FHTC use of USD 253 buildings.
The college pays $10 a year to occupy the buildings and is responsible for maintenance.
Member Brent Windsor said that he agreed with Schreiber’s assessment that the EDA programs are valuable to the district’s students.
“I do think there needs to be an agreement, and I think that is just to protect both parties so that we don’t have to go through this again, so that EDA understands what their rights are and what they’re getting,” Windsor said.
Member Amy Scheller said that EDA staff will assume a number of duties that previously had been handled by Safe and Drug-Free Schools run by Margi Grimwood, who is retiring at the end of the school year.
The board voted 7-0 to have an agreement written out and brought back for approval.
Change order
The board approved a change order for $27,129.51 for an additional long jump-triple jump pit at Emporia High School. The additional set of pits is needed to hold track meets and to be able to host post-season Centennial League and Kansas State High School Activities Association regional track and field meets, according to a memorandum accompanying the request. The cost will be split between the EHS capital outlay building budget and the district’s capital outlay fund.
Also among items approved on the consent agenda were:
• summer school staffing.
• an application for a $10,000 Kansas Learn and Serve Grant to start a Career and Community Connection course at EHS for students to apply skills in volunteer settings.
• a one-year agreement between the district and the Educational Services and Staff Development Association of Central Kansas (ESSDACK) to operate the Flint Hills Learning Center in the Flinthills Mall.
• bid-lettings for paper supplies, from copier paper to roll towels and tissue.
• bids for food supplies for the Food Service Department.
• a request to pursue grant funding from the State Energy Office of the Kansas Corporation Commission. Money would be used to hire an energy manager to be shared for two years among the school district, the city of Emporia, and the Flint Hills Technical College.
• a transportation request for non-school out-of-town activity from the Educational Talent Search, a Trio program at Emporia State University.
• Discovery Education streaming licenses.
• a transportation request from Walnut School Brownie Girl Scout Troop No. 30037 from the school to Camp Double E on May 14.
irishemporia (anonymous) says...
Sour Grapes, Mr. Helbert?
May 13, 2010 at 12:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
So they broke the law and were told they were breaking the law while they were breaking the law and continued to break the law after they were told they were breaking the law. All while pushing for more laws that I can only assume they expect people not to break. Yeah, makes sense.
May 13, 2010 at 1:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Talk to John Heim ? HUH ! Yeah, isn' t he leaving and supposedly leaving the school district in great shape ?
May 13, 2010 at 1:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
supernanny (anonymous) says...
FarmRaised,
Thank you, my child is the other one in the article that has been put on medication because she is so scared. She can not even sleep at night without nightmares.
May 13, 2010 at 1:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
What world are these people living in thinking that what the EDA was doing was not "politically motivated" ?
May 13, 2010 at 2:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
All I can say is I really can' t immagine how hard it must be for a parent and child in todays school environment and the lack of discipline and ability of the teachers, pricipals, etc., to hand out proper punishment or discipline in todays schools. I truely feel the pain and frustation of supernannys' situation as well as realize the trauma the child has been subjected to.
I just don' t see how anyone can make a statement that the Emporia schools and school districts are in a better position or are being left in better shape than before.
I say, give each schools' teachers, principles, staff, etc. back the power and ability to deal out proper punishment as they deem necessary to return control of our schools to the teachers, principals, staff, etc.. As it seems the school district, its leaders, staff, etc., the school board does not have the where-with-all to deal with certain dangerous and threatening, in school, situations.
Either give each schools' teachers, pricipals, staff, etc. the power and ability to deal with in school situation and deal out punishment, etc., or hire licensed, armed if necessary, security personal to patrol the school halls/grounds, with the power to forcibly arrest, restrain and charge any and all violaters of proper school decorum, regardless of whom they or their parents may be.
It seems to me it is time for action and not words or promises.
May 13, 2010 at 2:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Teresa? Hello, Teresa Walters? You were told about this and still you continued to break the law. That tells me you just didn't give a damn. And now you sit on the county commission and are expected to act in the best interests of the people. Right. Sure.
May 13, 2010 at 2:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
admireed (anonymous) says...
Still think punch in the nose is a real option
Edward McKernan
May 13, 2010 at 3:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
“By the same token, you were on the losing side of that,” Strickland said."
Boy that looks an awful lot like some of the posts/attitude that has been displayed here on the forum! Real professional and intelligent response from someone who holds the title of a Master Teacher. You don't suppose she was on the Elect Walters campaign do you? I'm not served by USD #253, but if I was, I would be pushing for the EDA to pay rent or get out. EDA is a lobbying firm that has managed to tap into your tax funding for revenue to fund their political agenda. They aren't there to protect your child against drugs and alcohol, nor do they care about your health.
May 13, 2010 at 3:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Come on Ed ,
Calling for someone to punch Teresa in the nose is not helpful.
It's a great day in Lawless Emporia!
;-)
May 13, 2010 at 3:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
LOL LOL on lawlessness. Quite a forum. Gambling ($5 bet), assault by admireed.
May 13, 2010 at 3:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
create,
well after the 1st couple of posts talking about sour grapes and apples to oranges I thought it was an extension workers recipe for fruit salad.
May 13, 2010 at 4:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
Steve, always looking for a new recipe but afraid this one is so full of NUTS!!!!
I'm not in this district but do have a question-was stated above "EDA will assume a number of duties that previously had been handled by "Safe & Drug Ree Schools" run by Margi Grimwood, who is retiring at the end of the school year"-sounds like that was a salary that the School District could have done without-correct? Didn't those two programs overlap? Remember it is only TAX dollars!!!!
May 13, 2010 at 4:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
barefooting (anonymous) says...
No Steve, admireed isn't saying punch Teresa, he is repeating a posting he put on earlier that a punch to the bully's nose should solve the problem.
May 13, 2010 at 9:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
admireed (anonymous) says...
Bare...Thank you. I appreciate the defense for Steve's charges. (Is that the correct way to state this?)
Edward McKernan
May 13, 2010 at 10:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BOH (anonymous) says...
It's no surprise that the bullying incident was swept under the rug. The behavior system at the school in question is a joke. In an attempt to make it look like they've got things under control, they've placed about 15 steps between a student's behavior and an actual discipline report. They tout improvements like having only 100 reports at the midterm vs. 1400 of them last year, but all they've done is force the teachers to deal with inappropriate behaviors from the students. Rather than present the students with consequences for bag behavior, they've created a system that actually promotes it. I can only imagine what would have happened to me if I'd behaved like some of the students today. If you are a parent of a student in any of the public schools, ask them how their school deals with problem behaviors. I'll wager you'll be surprised!
May 13, 2010 at 11:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
supernanny (anonymous) says...
BOH, you are so very correct...I was informed from several other parents last night that a note was sent out to all Lowther South 5th grade parents yesterday. Basically saying our children were lying in a round about way! I can not believe how this has been handled. I have visited with teachers and Administrators from other schools and they all agree that this child should have been removed from the school after the first threat. Instead my child that is a A-B student that never causes trouble is at home, and others are scared to go to school while this child still walks the halls.
May 14, 2010 at 7:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
barefooting and admireed,
Sorry my lame attempt at humor, note the winky smiley face.
Sandman, it's hard to tell about the tax dollars. I remember a meeting with the city manager where he told me the city didn't give money to DARE, but they did give to the school district for drug programs. so maybe Margi's wages were paid for by liquor drink tax money?
No matter where I looked in the city budget I couldn't find an accounting of these funds, which are quite substantial .
TO THIS DAY (as of 7:10 A.M.) if you go to Clean Air Emporia's web site all of the contact e-mails are Emporia school district, health department or other taxpayer funded government entities with the exception of Steve Sauders contact e-mail. And the Gazette still hasn't reported what was spent on either side of the smoking ban fight. The phone number listed, ( 620-341-2331), is now answered by a fax machine or computer, wonder who's number it is? As far as bullying in school, it's a good life learning lesson. It seems it, (bullying), happens all the time in everyday life.
When it comes to threats of violence there is an immediate need to deal with it swiftly and harshly.
May 14, 2010 at 7:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lurker75 (anonymous) says...
I'm curious BOH, tell me the 15 steps between the behavior incident and the actual bevior report. That seems like a lot of wasted time.
May 14, 2010 at 8:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
Yes EDA should pay rent, be investigated and fined or worse.
I kinda like Ed's idea with Steve's alteration.
May 14, 2010 at 10:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
patalingh (anonymous) says...
Regarding the bullying at Lowther South, our daughter was a 5th grader there last year. She was bullied from day 1 of the school year. Yes, we talked to the teachers and the counselors, and no one would do anything about it. Our daughter was stabbed at one point. It got so bad that she would beg and cry to please not send us to that place! We were told by a staff member that Ms. Griffin's policy on bullying is that the children who are being bullied, are just supposed to suck it up, and deal with it! We made an appointment to speak with Ms. Griffin and Ms. Lyman to discuss the problem. We were told that an "investigation" would have to be made. The ringleader of course, denied everything.The next day, my daughter was attacked on the playground. Fortunately, there was a witness, so finally something was done about the problem. Our daughter is still receiving counselling because of the severe traumatization that she received at Lowther South. Personally, I think that the school district should have to pay for that, since they are the ones responsible by letting it continue. What do we as parents have to do to protect our children? How many more children have to die as a result of bullying and by school staff who allow the bullying to go on?
May 14, 2010 at 11:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
supernanny (anonymous) says...
Patalingh - My heart goes out to you and your daughter, I so understand what you are going through. I think it is time for parents to come together that are experiencing these problems to stand strong and fight for our children to be safe.
May 14, 2010 at 12:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
stephgene (anonymous) says...
I was born and raised in Emporia and I have to say Emporia Schools are hit and miss. My son has an autism spectrum disorder. At one school all it was was a fight with the people in charge. I ended up moving him to another elementary school in Emporia and have had nothing but GREAT results from everyone. Although I think the school district doesn't have enough people to help the special needs kids. Kids bully my son cause he's "different" in turn his defense is telling the child that bullies him that he's going to "ki!!" them. NO my child is not the one everyone is talking about. He got his punishment for saying that bad word to someone. BUT, the bullying continues and he has to constantly use his "Coping Skills" to walk away and ignore those kids. It's very hard for an autistic child to function let alone putting them in a place where "normal" kids are. I suppose I'll have to home school him starting next year. Apparently 5th grade and up in Emporia aren't safe for him. I do have other "normal" children that have been through Emporia's school system. One will be graduating this year. The other in middle school. That's another long story!! Emporia needs to make some major changes.
May 14, 2010 at 12:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lookingin (anonymous) says...
Parents must take the iniative to document, document, save any email or voice mail evidence, and involve the police at the earliest opportunities. Get a lawyer and force the issue. You are your childs best advocate. The school can only do so much until you take action outside the school system to protect your child.
May 14, 2010 at 1:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
I thought we were in a good position?
http://www.emporiagazette.com/news/20...
May 14, 2010 at 1:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
goodoleboy
Hah ! Mr. Heim is the one that is in a good position. He will soon put all this behind him .
May 14, 2010 at 1:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
The problem with the school district, School Board, City Commission , County Commission, govt. in general is, when problems do arise or are blatantly evident, they all sit around in a big circle and point an accusing finger at the person on their left, and say it is their fault. This situation is also what we, who were in the military used to call a " Cluster F_ _k " . Because no one wants to take the blame for problems or foul ups and not knowing or wanting to do anything about it and a lack of sufficent leadership .
May 14, 2010 at 1:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Supernana (anonymous) says...
I'm wondering why is this being pushed under the rug..? We teach our children to let someone know when they hear or see something that isn't right. Maybe we should be getting this child some help before something really terrible happens. Instead we send out notes and make like nothing has happen... When in fact they all know that it has. Just who or what are the adults afraid of?
May 14, 2010 at 2:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
cartercan (anonymous) says...
We don't know the details of what happened at Lowther South, however it seems unfair a girl is home because she's scared for her life, AT SCHOOL where she should be SAFE! What's disgusting is this boy is still at school, but being watched. If he's not a threat why is the district paying adults to monitor him? Today was field day, he was there, participating. Where are the consequences? What life lessons is he learning now that he'll take into adulthood?
Maybe there was some sort of punishment, but due to privacy concerns, we will not know. Information should have been communicated to parents, instead of waiting for media to get it, forcing the school to communicate.
Only reported bullying is invesitgated. Students don't feel comfortable reporting as they fear the retaliation will be worse or administration won't believe them. We need to focus on prevention. The district will say they do, but apparently it's not working.
Kudos to Barb Clark for bringing "Be the Change" to the middle school. She's making great strides toward changing the atmosphere at EMS. Why can't this program be implemented at our other schools?
Heard about last year's threat at the same building, seems our bullying policy should be reviewed and discussed with school personnel, including the principal! This is a meeting she should attend. Sorry to say the principal's credibility and respect has diminshed terribly the past couple years due to bullying issues. Hard to be a leader if you don't have respect!
It's great the district includes school vehicles as part of the policy, however, how is the policy being enforced? It's not safe to expect the bus driver to watch the road AND the students. I understand bus bullying is worse than ever before.
Hopefully Emporia won't end up on Good Morning America as another school violence statistic!
May 14, 2010 at 3:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
Steve, if "akamai is correct in the last paragraph, EDA's(ie. "Clean Air Emporia") leaders and staff members DID break the law and the tax payers footed the bill by them being housed on school grounds for they had political"thoughts simply by asking people to vote on a given subject.
Bullying, in the past, Emporia School district, the child doing the "bullying" was placed in "in-school suspension" with a supervising teacher for a period of time, perhaps until the end of the school
year. Each day/week the child was placed in "in-school" their classroom/subject teacher would give the homework of the child to the "in-school" teacher and be turned in, day/week. If the child became "unrulely" and refused to work, the legal authorities were then called, turning the child over to them. These are called "Guidelines" OR RULES! A general classroom teacher may have from 20/30 students to try to TEACH, give them some SUPPORT!!! Also, at one time there were "dresscodes", where are they now?
May 14, 2010 at 4:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BOH (anonymous) says...
Let's see. At the school in question, the SOP appears to be to send a child to time-out for a first offense...something in the realm of blatantly disrespecting a classroom teacher. Time-out takes place in the classroom of said teacher. If the student can calm down within the alloted time, usually 10 minutes, they return to class. If they cannot calm down, and become unruly while in time out, they're sent to a neighboring teacher's classroom to serve a level II timeout of 10 minutes. If they complete that time-out, they return to the original teacher's room and spend 10 minutes in the time-out spot there. If they maintain control, they then return to class. However, once they've returned to class, the process starts all over. If they misbehave again, it's off to the time-out spot. Imagine the amount of teaching/learning time that is wasted in this arrangement. The students who aren't misbehaving are certainly aware of the situation in the room.
Now, it is true that punching a student in the face (in plain site of the teacher) will get a child sent to the office. What comes of that office trip varies greatly. If there was no teacher present, then an "investigation" takes place. Of course, the offending student denies the action. If there were witnesses, a case is built...but without an actual admission of guilt from the accused, no discipline takes place. It is treated as a "he said, she said" situation.
As for the 15 steps. The Time-out arrangement noted above could occur 5-10 times in any given class period. If the student keeps returning to their classroom, after the time-out, no further action is taken. If the student is habitually unruly, teachers must meat as a team to discuss the child, develop a plan for dealing with the child's behavior, and give that plan time to be implemented. So, another week or so goes by. If the behavior continues, the teachers are to contact parents and arrange for a meeting. This might well take another week. Meanwhile, the behavior continues. Once parent contact has been made, time is given to see how that affects the situation. If the student continues to misbehave, the counselor MIGHT come into play. However, the usual scenario is to develop some type of reward system for the offending student. For example, they might win a prize (gift card to McDonald's etc) if the can manage to only get in trouble 4 times this week. The game will usually be in place about a month before it is determined to be ineffective. At this point, another game will be devised. Repeat this process about 5 times, and you're sitting in March. Not to mention the fact that the well-behaved students get to watch the unruly children win prizes for "only" getting in trouble 4 times a week!
continued below...
May 14, 2010 at 5:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BOH (anonymous) says...
My son says he's got a classmate who was in ISS on Friday for bullying another student. He spent Monday in ISS as well. On Tuesday, upon being released from ISS, he dropped an F-bomb on a female classmate and punched her. That incident was "investigated" and the classmate was placed on a "3 strikes and you're out" contract for Field Day. A contract that he promptly revealed to his classmates! The student then went to class and quickly wracked up 2 strikes. My son reports that the student was at Field Day today.
So, bully a student last week and you wind up in ISS. Bully a student immediately after returning from ISS and the consequence is a game? It would seem the consequence was LESS severe.
What I've learned this year is that my child is expected to simply "deal" with constant disruptions from unruly/aggressive students. When boundaries are challenged, consequences don't come. Not surprisingly, the boundaries are then challenged even more. I've actually heard my son's friends say that they feel sorry for the teacher!
It isn't that the rules aren't being applied consistently...rather, they imply aren't being applied at all! The Administrator at Lowther South keeps spouting about how they've reduced discipline problems this year. I say, they're simply ignoring them.
May 14, 2010 at 5:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodjoss (anonymous) says...
Am I the only one who finds it seethingly ironic that these two items were in the same meeting's agenda?
The EDA bullied their agenda on the people of Emporia, bullied their self-righteousness on the businesses of Emporia, and bullied their attitude on the USD and it's 'leadership'.
I think Teresa Walters should be Sarah Palin's VP. Perfect.
May 14, 2010 at 8:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodjoss (anonymous) says...
BTW - If the EDA is OK w/ the politicking, why are the clean air emporia pages now taken down?
Isn't the saying "if you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear'?
Running is the first admission of guilt.
Bravo Mike Helbert. You have my vote. And you're the only one, too.
May 14, 2010 at 9:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
I agree that there shouldn't be bullying, but just to play the devil's advocate here, how many of the kids that complain about it are just spoiled or may be doing it theirself and the parents are simply blind to the situation?
I agree with Ed on this just punch em in the nose.
The whole problem could be solved if the teachers or the administration could simply whip the problem child's behind.
But nooooo that would be child abuse.
The day that we got our butt kicked at school and then got it kicked twice when we got home was when this wasn't a problem. And if there was a problem we punched em in the nose, dad or mom came to school, we probably both ended up in trouble, but we many times ended up friends.
No pills or medicine for ADD,etc,etc.
Put discipline back in the hands of the teachers and the administration instead of the bleading heart, my kid didn't do anything liberals and you'd cure the problem.
May 14, 2010 at 9:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mslater (Matt Slater) says...
I think bringing corporal punishment back to the classroom would solve most of this.
May 14, 2010 at 10:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
supernanny (anonymous) says...
Im so glad you guys see some humor in this, punching eachother in the nose, and bring corporal punishement in......My family and the others involved really dont see it as a laughing matter. I have a 11 yr old daughter scared to go in public... for fear she will see this boy or his friends....a 11 yr old that has had to get a doctors treatment because she is having nightmares and can not sleep.She is a good kid, she gets good grades and works very hard for them, and yet she sets at home during the day while the kid who makes the threats is still participating in everything she should be at school. I dont see where any of that is funny. Or how punching another makes it better. Two wrongs dont make a right!
May 14, 2010 at 11:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Matt, you went to school with a few bullies. Can you see me spanking them?Hey, I'll admit I did think of it a time or two.
We continue to see more and more serious bullying going on in schools. Counselors need to get a quicker hand on them to find out if there is an organic cause. This time out method only works on the kids who act up once in awhile and are only doing so to gain an audience. Remove the audience-remove the problem. I've used that method myself successfully. But the chronic offenders need closer watching and more professional attention from a counselor. Where are the parents of this kid?
May 15, 2010 at 8:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
And what irks me about this is, that you have teachers who, under the guise of teaching a lesson about a language or culture, teaches the kids in their class about how, at times, some unruly protests, making signs with antagonistic slogans on them, pumping their fist and sign in the air, marching around, while shouting all kinds of possibly inflamitory slogans and that civil discourse at times is a good thing. And like I said, doing this under the guise of proper education.
And you/we the people wonder why there is bullying, etc. in our schools and why the U.S. lags fairly far behind some of the rest of the world in learning and education ! The why, is because discipline, the ability to deal out discipline and punishment has been taken out of the hands of the teachers, school staff, even how the learning and teaching has been taken away from the teachers and school staff and placed in the hands of " politicians " and " beaurocrats ". And it would seem the whole premise of going to school now-a-eays is not, soley. for an education, but to also have " Fun " and it would seem that the " FUN " is the prevailant thought.
With the way the education system presently is, in the U.S. or perhaps it is just in Emporia . Why are teachers, educators or even schools needed ? It seems that the kids or at least some of the kids are in control of the schools anyway .
What ever happend to the idea of respecting your teacher, school, your fellow students and especially the idea that while you were in school, you were there to behave, pay attention, and above all learn something constructive and something your could be proud of, " YOUR ACHIEVMENTS " other than being a " A Bad A$$ " .
I am afraid that if this sort of thing is allowed to continue, that something worse than " bullying " or just threats is going to be the end result.
Suppernanny, you are correct it is not funny, it is pathetic that any child should have to be under a doctors care or take medication because of bullying or threat incident at school, because of another, any other, unruly kid/student and that apparently nothing can be done about it.
My thoughts and prayers go out to you and your child.
For the sake of the children . You School District administrators, Board of Education members, should/need to put the authority to take care of such matters into the hands of the teachers and school staff, to deal out whatever punishment they deem necessary to alieveate this apparently growing problem in our public schools, even if that means some form of corporal punishment, arrest of the problem child and banishment of that problem child from attending any public school in the Emporia school system.
May 15, 2010 at 8:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lurker75 (anonymous) says...
your 11 year old girl is scared to go into public because of an 11 year old boy. really? aren't you with your 11 year old when she goes into public? Is he going to roll up on his bmx and do a water balloon drive by? doesn't she think you can protect her? oh wait that's the schools job which they must not be able to do. why? i'll tell you. because in the world we have created you CAN NOT take away anyone's rights (kick out of school) without witnesses. Yes, we've all heard your daughter and her friend heard it. Call the police and see what happens with that. Oh wait. You did. Would you like to share what the police found when they did their investigation? Nada. Zip. So.......the actual police who do this sort of thing for a living came to the conclusion they couldn't do anything legally, what do you think the school can do? Unless an adult is a witness hands are tied. there is a lot of things being said here that are so one sided, and the other side isn't showing up with the REAL information because they legally can't. and the mud slingers know this. so sling away. it's all good. the view from the high road is amazing.
May 15, 2010 at 11:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
EsqEB (anonymous) says...
I find it amusing that an article about bullying in Emporia, also deals with Mrs. Walters and Mrs. Grimwood.
May 15, 2010 at 11:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
Suppernanny
I see no humor in it at all. Why would you not want corporal punishment? It could very easily cure the problem.
Most ot the time I agree with create but this time I have a question.
How long are we as a society going to coddle this kind of behavior?
I think that we've counceled ourselves to death. Counselor this counselor that.
Sometimes people don't even have a problem till some shrink tells them they do.
It's just an easy way out for the offender. Some counselor tells the principal the kid needs help, we can't disipline him/her, we can't do this or that they may get worse, let's talk, that will make it all better. I say if you want to talk to them do it will they're on the receiving end of something that will really get their attention.
May 15, 2010 at 11:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
Go tbluma!!!!! Today everyone is running scared because of possible law suits, so in the end we end up with no law. Also, many of these problems need to be delt with at home with the child bearing the consequences, not in todays world!!! Much easier to blame everyone else for our problems.
May 15, 2010 at 12:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lurker75 (anonymous) says...
exactly. it's the schools job to teach my kid and to strive for an orderly, safe enviroment. however, ultimately it's MY job to protect them. nobody else's. i sure wouldn't be blaming the school. i'd be on the front porch of the bully's house. not crying to the paper.
May 15, 2010 at 12:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Great comment, akamai, and you too tbluma. Both stories, bullying and EDA/CAE have one thing in common -- legalities. Take EDA out of the school building and press the issue and whaddaya wanna bet there'd be a lawsuit to follow.
The same is true with regard to bullying, and sandman is correct here. All too often there's a lawsuit just waiting to be filed. It's a real problem in the schools too. Then too, there are the parents who say "my kid isn't doing anything wrong. It's so and so's fault." Oh yeah, lots of that too. So instead of relying on the school to take care of things, why not file charges against the offending bully?I do know one thing, it does get disgusting.
May 15, 2010 at 2:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lurker75 (anonymous) says...
petty 5th grade crap. couldn't agree more.
May 15, 2010 at 3:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lurker75 (anonymous) says...
akamai...just read the rest of your post and I'd like to give you a virtual high five. on all accounts you make a great point. as for the EDA i really think if someone got their ducks in a row, hired a super lawyer, there really is a case there.
By the way, i hear those meds they give kids for anxiety, are delicious for adults too. I'm not saying...........I'm just saying.
May 15, 2010 at 3:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
supernanny (anonymous) says...
akamai - I am not a unstable parent who is forcing my child to take anything.
I will tell you I was not happy about it at all. But, I had to do what is best for my child....She is a strong girl and doing better, Talking and assuring her she is going to be safe has helped alot, to were she will no longer need the medication to help with the anxiety. But, until you have went thru what we have and know ALL the facts of the sitution PLEASE DO NOT JUDGE!
My daughter is not even going to be in school in Emporia next year, but I just want parents to know what is going on there. I am hoping that we get the word out and more parents take a stand on this subject, then we can keep other children from getting hurt in the future.
To be honest I dont know what the right answer is here at all. I wish I did it would make this subject alot easier. But I do know what happen in that school, and in the offices, and with every phone call made. And something needs to change in the schools, and it starts HERE at Home with the parents.
Thank you all for your opinions on the matter! and thank you for the ones that have understood and have supported us.....
May 15, 2010 at 3:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lurker75 (anonymous) says...
I don't support you bashing the school and the way it was handled, but that's your right. This is mine.
Devil's advocate here. You have a son or daughter who has a few enemies. Those enemies get together and fabricate a story of bullying against your kid. Both saw it, both heard it. Your child tells you he or she did nothing, and those kids accusing him or her just have it out for them. School calls you to tell you your child is suspended. No witnesses other than the two accusers. But your kid isn't allowed back at school.
I'm not saying at all, this is what happened. I'm sure the "bully" did act in a threatening way. I'm just trying to show where the schools have to rely on facts to give out punishment.
Food for thought
May 15, 2010 at 4:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
irishemporia (anonymous) says...
On EDA: Do we know for sure that laws were broken? IF not, who can make that determination?
On bullying: What do you do about children who makes false claims about bullying? Also, if, do to budget cuts, class sizes are larger, even if only by one or two students, isn't that going to make the bullying situation worse?
May 15, 2010 at 4:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lurker75 (anonymous) says...
and to any parents who want to know "what is going on there" i suggest you pop in some day unnannounced to see the lawlessness going on. It's rampant.
May 15, 2010 at 4:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
irishemporia,
Yes, the cuts are going to make a worse situation, worse UNLESS it is taken over responsibly by adults. GROUND RULES!!! (and follow them!!!) Making sure they are in black/white and ALL parents understand these rules. By just stating "this will happen" doesn't work, carry those ground rules out in ALL cases.
What is "bullying" to one may not be to another-GROUND RULES!!!!
May 15, 2010 at 5:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
barefooting (anonymous) says...
I no longer have kids in school, but I had both good and bad experiences with teachers correcting behavior problems. I had more good responses from teachers when I called explaining there was a problem between one of my kids and another. One teacher also told me that not many parents go to the school when there is an issue, maybe the parents dont always know, but I got better results when I talked calmly to the teacher, knew the names of the kids involved and as many details as possible., then called the teacher back to let her know if the problem was solved and thanked her when it was. My last kid was at the high school a couple years ago and I was surprised how many times she told about fights there. With so many principals at the school there should be a couple in the halls during class changes to help cut down on the number of fights. Another thing, there are online schools that provide all the curriculum, are affordable, and have teachers who keep in touch with the family to help with questions and problems which sounds like a good alternative to sending a kid into an unhappy situation at school.
May 15, 2010 at 7:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
YouwillNeverknowMyname (anonymous) says...
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
May 15, 2010 at 7:28 p.m. ( permalink )
YouwillNeverknowMyname (anonymous) says...
SO BAD ME N MY FRIENDS AN WHAT TO DO IF THERE WAS A SHOOTING
May 15, 2010 at 7:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
After reading that I think I lost 10-15 points off my IQ, my head hurts now, must go lay down.......
May 15, 2010 at 9:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
It is my observation/ opinion and understanding that the EDA and the CAE are essentially headed up and controlled by basically the same power hungry people/person.
And it is also my opinion that these people/person also believe that they are above and beyond " reproach " , there by in there minds they do not have to abide by the same laws as the so called " common people " , therefore they believe they only have to abide by the rules and laws that they set and make for themselves .
It is a great day in Emporia, a.k.a. The Emerald City, a.k.a OZ.
Lions and Tigers and Bears, Oh my !
May 15, 2010 at 9:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
Enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEtKX9...
note minutes 2:30-3:40 & 7:30 on bullying (tongue in cheek because it's been a long week and now it's the weekend ☺)
May 15, 2010 at 10:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lurker75 (anonymous) says...
youwillneverknowmyname........your report on "why i'm such an idiot" is due monday. get cracking
May 15, 2010 at 11:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BOH (anonymous) says...
Good to see a student speak up. Not so good to see an adult flame the student. I wonder where the bully behavior starts?
Don't be foolish enough to think that teacher-witnessed bullying behavior is handled any differently than the student-witnessed variety. We've got students with 8 documented, teacher-observed, fights under their belts. The students are still going to school. They're attending the same classes with the same students they bullied.
There are several reasons for this. Some, sadly, involve legal drama for the school. Others, even more sadly, are district policy. For example...the schools are under extreme pressure to keep students enrolled through the state assessments each year. In most cases, that means that the students will be around through March or early April. The reason being that a student who is expelled prior to the assessments won't be able to take them. However, since they were on the school's roster in September, when the federal aide headcount is done, they're expected to take the test! If they don't, for whatever reason, they count as not only a failed assesssment, but the school also gets docked for not testing all of their students. If the student happens to be in an important enough sub-group (ESL for example) the school can fail to make AYP.
May 16, 2010 at 12:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BOH (anonymous) says...
This year...student busted at the Middle School for possession of marijuana with admitted intent to sell...
The student was kicked out of the school for the remainder of the year (in December). However, that suspension was suspended, and the student was placed on "probation" instead. It is simply bizarre what the students/teachers are expected to put up with....
May 16, 2010 at 12:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
BOH, what a crazy web we have woven!!!
Whenever government is involved, count on things to be a mess!!!!Guidelines are GREAT, until they make mass confusion and total control, but again, they should be "Guidelines"! We no longer "practice what we preach", many times "hands are tied".
May 16, 2010 at 3:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
I was proud of the student above for speaking up, yes, grammer was not perfect, but please, don't go lay down, that doesn't resolve the problem!!!! Maybe that is part of the problem, to many are laying down!
May 16, 2010 at 3:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
barefooting (anonymous) says...
BOH, guess thats explains why the high school put up with a bully without kicking him out until the end of the year.
May 16, 2010 at 5:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Grammar was not perfect? Please, it was horrendous, and my eyes twitched as I tried to read it because my brain kept grabbing for another gear.
Yes, bullying was the topic in that student's post, but the message was so completely garbled that much of it was lost and the underlying message was revealed instead -- that poor grammar is a stumbling block to good communication. It certainly will cause major problems later on.
What's going on in Language Arts in those schools? And I mean lower elementary grades too. By the time a kid is in 6th or 7th grade, he or she should be able to write a simple communique without so many blatant errors. I am disgusted, yes, but troubled too because this is very sad when a kid this age can't write simple sentences. It tells me that the system is broken.
I don't like paying for a broken system.
May 16, 2010 at 5:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
I also was somewhat taken aback by the grammer and composition of the students comments, but I did clearly get the message the student was putting out there and would like to congratulate the student to have the fortitude and bravery to bring names to light of those that may be part of the problem .
Now it would seem that if the school district, school board officials as well as the school officials do not investigate this further, including, an involved investigation of the home life of problem students, then they certainly are not earning their pay and if necessary, getting local law enforcement and child services involved as well. My view is, if a child of any age is bringing a gun to school to threaten children or adults with, then that is a serious problem and I would think that, at least, part of the problem lies at home . Allowing this problem to continue to happen or escalate without some sort of resolution, will only manage to get worse and with consequences no one will want nor should accept ..
May 16, 2010 at 8:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
create,
I agree with your last post. All the money thrown at schools and this post from youwillneverknowmyname is what we get? If it is truly a letter from a seventh grade student in Emporia then our country is really in trouble.
if it is a phony post I don't understand why.
The poster used the F-Bomb twice. At age 11 or 12? Guess their parents had never heard of washing the mouth out with soap?
Perfect example of no parenting and lax control.
A NOTE TO
youwillneverknowmyname.
You had better go to school to learn, study hard and forget your little lives drama episodes. Stay away from the negative and get your "stuff" together. Or you will end up a complete and total failure! Living off the taxpayer and using food stamps, all the while blaming others for your troubles.
May 16, 2010 at 8:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
I am sorry if I may have hurt someones feeling here but this is the real world and it's time we acted like it. WHY WON'T THE SCHOOLS make it difficult on the parents?
If a student is fighting or violent, give the parent a choice of coming to school to pick the kid up or letting them pick the kid up at the police department. In school detention for lessor problems with the requirement of a parent or guardian coming to the school to sign them out. Three violations and the kid is out for the rest of the year and let SRS deal with them and their parents.
I know things have changed since my school days but if my parents found out I miss-behaved at school, I would dread the at-home punishment that would follow. Since the schools have loosened their discipline requirements the problem has only increased. We can't expect the school system to raise our kids, their job is to educate them. If the parents abdicate their responsibilities of raising their kids they should be the ones who suffer, not the kid who goes to school to learn.
May 16, 2010 at 9:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
BOH,
If there are students with 8 DOCUMENTED instances of bullying in front of staff what are their names? List them here, if it is true you can't be held liable.
I'm not saying it's not true, but if it is than I can't for the life of me understand why people are putting up with it.
The school board had better step up and change some policy if this is going on. Troublemakers need to be out, plain and simple, forget the funding loss.
Perhaps when mom or dad have to spend their days with their little misunderstood darlings they will get a clue. Or maybe it will be 30 years from now when Junior is still living at home with mom and dad because the system failed them?
This whole thing just makes me sick!
May 16, 2010 at 9:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
barefooting (anonymous) says...
Re-reading the kid's post and what I see is a kid who believes there is a real threat in school. It has to be difficult to learn in a scarry environment.
May 16, 2010 at 9:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
YouwillNeverknowMyname (anonymous) says...
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
May 16, 2010 at 9:49 a.m. ( permalink )
methusla (anonymous) says...
But Steve, you are looking back at the way things were, when you and I were in school and teachers had the ability to deal out disciplinary punishment, even corporal punishment, if necessary.
Now that is not " Progressive " thinking and is also " Negative " in nature.
Shame, Shame .
However I completely agree with you. So I guess that makes us, crotchey, unprogressive and negative Emporia personalities and bad for Emporia .
Oh, Well !
May 16, 2010 at 9:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Perhaps our school board, school district leaders as well as school administrators, teachers and staff should visit the following sites .
http://www.kerc-ks.org/resource_list....
Click on the following and observe the info.
Involvement of Law Enforcement Officers in Bullying Prevention
May 16, 2010 at 10:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
I will continue to compliment the student and his post WITH unproper grammer. If what he states is true, we have more of a major problem then grammer!!!!! Our children are in a "learning" atmosphere but WHAT are they learning????? Who controls the schools???? Gangs or adults? I understood this student to be going into the 7th grade next year and yes, he/she should be able to formulate an understandable letter at this time. Instead of condemning the student, let's check his information and get to the "heart" of the situation. What would be wrong with placing a "parent" in each classroom, playground etc, working with the various schools, a "parent patrol" Many parents have NEVER been in a classroom, unless it was their own. At a time that we are having major cutbacks in funding, help the schools. I don't know the legal implications, but HELP, instead of condemning.
May 16, 2010 at 10:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
YouwillNeverknowMyname (anonymous) says...
SORRY FOR THE GRAMMER THIS IS THE INTERNET YOU KNOW NOTHING HAS TO BE RIGHT. AND NONE OF YOU HAVE BEEN IN A CLASSROOM TODAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT I SAID IS NOT A LIE THERE IS NO BULIES THERE ARE ONLY GANGS GANGS GANGS YOU PEOPLE ARE STUPID STUPID STUPID DRIVE AROUND PEETER PAN OR THE REC CENTER FOR PETES SAKE WALK AROUND THE MIDDLE SCHOOL GO TO THE HIGH SCHOOL YOU ARE JUST AFRAID TO ADMIT THAT THERE IS A BIGGER PROBLEM IN ARE SCHOOLS THEN EXPECTED
May 16, 2010 at 11:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
akamai, as usual, I like your post!!! (plus agree!) Am afraid that to a 5,6,7th grader, very hard to do, the hormones are stepping in.
May 16, 2010 at 11:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
YouwillNeverknowMyname (anonymous) says...
Just last week the whole third floor smelt like burnning weed someone smoked it in the bathroom
May 16, 2010 at 11:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
YouwillNeverknowMyname,
I would like to say, that if anything I have said here, offended you, that was not my intent, but since you are a child and communicating in a predominately adult forum, you will have to bear with some of us older people. However, I would like to commend you on your speaking up, about a serious problem, indeed.
I have been around the two middle schools, as well as peter pan park and have seen the instances of bullying, fighting, gang presence and gang related clothing, hair cuts/styles, ( even on small preschool and grade school children as well as gang related grafitti all over the City. So, there is some validity in what you say.
However, there will be those who will not believe your comments to be true or valid ones.
I wish you and all of the children who are having to contend with a bad situation the very best of luck and hope someone realizes the problem and does something about it, before something serious takes place.
And if it is any consolation to you, even adults have a hard time convincing others that there is a real problem and something needs to be done to fix the problem.
May 16, 2010 at 11:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
YouwillNeverknowMyname (anonymous) says...
Thank you i was just putting that on there to let people know what is going on before something serious does take place thank you.
May 16, 2010 at 11:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
akamai,no ratting out here. Also, let me know when you need to go to Newman Hospital, I'll protect you!! Always safer in pairs then single. Have a good day!!!
May 16, 2010 at 11:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
YouwillNeverknowMyname (anonymous) says...
OH MY GOD that will not stop anyone from doing it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
May 16, 2010 at 11:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
!st off everyone.
Kelsey Grammer played Dr. Crane on Fraiser, the t.v. show.
"GRAMMAR" is what we try to use correctly on these posts. i know my grammar is not perfect but internet or not we should try.
If you read some posts on here, our teachers should be equipped with tazers, handcuffs and pepper spray.
To much drama?
or is it too or two?
create help me out here?
May 16, 2010 at 12:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
YouwillNeverknowMyname (anonymous) says...
IM DELETING MY ACCOUNT GOODBYE
May 16, 2010 at 12:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
poolguy (anonymous) says...
On the IRS website, it says that a 501(c)(3) organization; "it may not be an action organization, i.e., it may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial part of its activities and it may not participate in any campaign activity for or against political candidates."
Now, the way I read that, If CAE is a 501(c)(3), it would be in violation because of the smoking ban they introduced and promoted. Wonder what the IRS would have to say about that.
Heres the website: http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitab...
As for the bullying/gang in the schools, they apparently know its a problem. Last time I was in both the High school and the middle school, there were cameras everywhere. Don't remember there being as many in either of those schools several years ago when I attended them. Its purely speculation, but I have to wonder if the higher ups in the district are scared of these kids as well.
May 16, 2010 at 12:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Well, FarmRaised,
The SRS or TFI were not raising my kids, I was.
When my son was in 6th grade and threatened by me with the belt, I was informed by him that I couldn't do that. Spanking was child abuse and the teacher had told him that I couldn't do it. I just smiled and explained it was only abuse if there was evidence of the spanking. Didn't have too many problems after that conversation.
May 16, 2010 at 12:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
ugh 12 years old. It's going to be rough, take it from me. At that age the parenting is the hardest I think of any age.
I don't think the cops would have charged you with anything, they may just have talked some sense into her, you know a third party intervention sometime works wonders.
Taking away the phone or computer or t.v. is an option and after the kids hit driving age the keys to the car is an option. You do have the authority to raise your kids.
I always told my kids that they might not understand why we treated them the way we did, but they would when they were grown up.
And you know what? since they have grown older they have both told us we were not such bad parents after all, and sometimes we should have been stricter with them.
May 16, 2010 at 1:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
Steve,
Thanks for the correction concerning the spelling of "grammar". Yep, I goofed.
We learn something every day, that is what is so very exciting about life, learning!!!!! Where was "openeyes" when I needed him, he was the speller. Yes, get out "Webster".
May 16, 2010 at 1:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Anyone else notice how youwillneverknowmyname's voice continues to change. Some posts sound like a little kid while some use terminology more adult-like. I smell a rat. Don't you?
Steve, I agree with you about grammar use. Of course it should be correct. After all, we are communicating in our language here, and there is no rule that says Internet talk should be gramatically incorrect. That's just an excuse to say otherwise.
Incidentally, I have friends who teach college composition courses who report that text-speak has been creeping into the papers they receive from students. I was starting to see some of it when I was still in the classroom a couple of years ago. My policy was that I didn't grade the paper. I returned it and gave that student overnight to revise for one letter grade less. If the revised paper still contained the same errors, I gave it an F. I expected a lot, but I taught them how to write correctly, not to be lazy.
I taught many foreign exchange students over the years and almost every single one of them wrote perfect English because they learned to speak it and write it that way in their countries. They did not use slang. American kids have a tendency to write the way they speak. We must remember too, that academically, America is behind other countries, something I find to be disturbing also.
May 16, 2010 at 5 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mslater (Matt Slater) says...
"IM DELETING MY ACCOUNT GOODBYE"
I think someone's mom found someone's account... Haha!
I did go to Peter Pan Park today, and was APPALLED by the rampant gang activity going on there.
Four gang members were in the middle of target practice. They were brandishing round plastic disks that could serve no other purpose than to be weapons, and were throwing them at metal targets that were laced with metal chains.
Two other gang members, one a grown man (must have been the ringleader) and a new recruit, were practicing getting rid of drugs in the pond there. They attached them to a pole, and threw them into the pond, and they kept doing this over and over. Must have been a big stash...
May 16, 2010 at 5 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BOH (anonymous) says...
Cameras...cameras. There are cameras at the entrances of the middle and high schools. There are cameras in the hallways of those schools as well. However, there are certainly areas where no cameras are used. Restrooms/locker rooms are certainly off limits.
The lowther schools each have ONE camera...pointed at the main entrances. There's no coverage inside.
May 16, 2010 at 9:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
goodjoss and other posters,
For those naysayers who say these threads are too negative and do no good we have proof of that not being true.
A member of our school board talked to the superintendent about Clean Air Emporia, (offshoot of EDA) using school district property in a political campaign. Nothing was done for over a year. Only after discussion on here was the CAE website removed from the districts server.
As to whether the 501c-3 tax exempt status of EDA/CAE miss-used tax payer funded dollars or facilities in a political campaign, the IRS would be the final authority on that.
Has any NEWS ORGANIZATION requested a ruling from them?
May 17, 2010 at 7:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Good to know all this, Steve. Thank you. Whaddaya wanna bet we'll hear some info soon on the tax exempt status.
These organizations don't like to be scrutinized and this forum does contribute to scrutiny. It serves a purpose.
May 17, 2010 at 10:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
I just found this article and thought we should all read it with regard to behavior related conditions in children (and adults too). This is probably the most important article I've read in a long time with regard to these concerns. I've often wondered if there was something in our food that points to such a high incidence of learning and behavior disorders in our children. This makes a lot of sense.
Our schools need to keep an eye on this important new research and even send home messages about the importance of cleaning fresh vegetables before we eat them. I have friends that never rinse their fresh veggies and I think twice before eating at their house. We need to really think about this.
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/3715601...
May 17, 2010 at 11:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Hey, Steve,
If it all comes down to the fact that the CAE and its leaders actually broke a law, would that mean that the vote on the smoking ban would be considered null, and void, since the CAE, its leaders and supporters actually solicited votes and voters to vote for a smoking ban, which technically is and would be of a political nature by using equipment and property that is technically owned by the government, which was paid for by taxpayer funds ? As I understand the tax excempt laws of a not-for-profit organization, such organizations cannot or not allowed to use any government equipment, property, etc. , that has been purchased/paid for with government funds received thru taxpayer taxes and if they do so, then their tax exempt status is null and void and are subject to fines, penalties, etc., under the law. I refer you to the following.
Lobbying
In general, no organization may qualify for section 501(c)(3) status if a substantial part of its activities is attempting to influence legislation (commonly known as lobbying). A 501(c)(3) organization may engage in some lobbying, but too much lobbying activity risks loss of tax-exempt status.
Legislation includes action by Congress, any state legislature, any local council, or similar governing body, with respect to acts, bills, resolutions, or similar items (such as legislative confirmation of appointive office), or by the public in referendum, ballot initiative, constitutional amendment, or similar procedure. It does not include actions by executive, judicial, or administrative bodies.
An organization will be regarded as attempting to influence legislation if it contacts, or urges the public to contact, members or employees of a legislative body for the purpose of proposing, supporting, or opposing legislation, or if the organization advocates the adoption or rejection of legislation.
Organizations may, however, involve themselves in issues of public policy without the activity being considered as lobbying. For example, organizations may conduct educational meetings, prepare and distribute educational materials, or otherwise consider public policy issues in an educational manner without jeopardizing their tax-exempt status.
So, as I see it the CAE, its leader/leaders and influencial supporter/members, money contributors/backers, violated the law, by taking upon itself, through its members/donors to even attempt to solicit/lobby the governing/governmental body of the City of Emporia/City Commission, to even consider imposing a smoking ban .
Now, having said that I am also wondering how valid any of the rest of the smoking bans that have been enacted/passed in the U.S.A. also were done in an unlawful manner, under the " LAW " .
Source:
http://www.irs.gov/charities/article/...
May 17, 2010 at 12:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
O'k enry, Let er rip .
May 17, 2010 at 12:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
What an interesting point, methusla. Wonder what they'd do if we pushed the issue.
May 17, 2010 at 1:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Here (anonymous) says...
There is probably a reason that Ms. Griffin (who lives in Emporia) has her daughter attend another school district. Makes you wonder about her confidence in her own district.
If Ms. Griffin can not manage the issue of bullying, I would wonder about her ability to manage the 5th grade building at all.
I have older children, but if my child was treated like that, someone's head would be on a platter. I am disappointed that the Board did not respond more assertively.
May 17, 2010 at 3:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
create,
I do not know . Perhaps if the CAE & EDA its leaders, supporters, etc., suddenly came under close IRS scrutiny and possibly may have to pay an exise tax or income tax, including all back income/exise tax, the CAE and EDA may just suddenly disappear ... never to have ever existed in the first place ????
Wonder what that would do to the vote that would have most likely not have been forced, if the CAE and the power crazed leaders and supporters of the CAE had just accepted the smoking ordinance that existed before the vote and ban ?
May 17, 2010 at 3:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Perhaps the tax payers who support the school district should raise plenty of Hell and demand that CAE & EDA pay back rent to the school district.
May 17, 2010 at 3:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
create
The big problem with the CAE/EDA or any such organization is, their influential power base is just too powerful and connected. You must remember there are some really big power/money organizations/businesses that are backers of the anti-smoking pundents.
May 17, 2010 at 4:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
supernanny (anonymous) says...
Here--- Interesting Information...this is something I did not know. When I asked Mrs Griffen what she would do if it was her child......she did not answer me.
May 17, 2010 at 4:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
hogan77 (anonymous) says...
Personally, I think the bully needs to be pulled out of school and handled appropriately. He obviously has some issues, otherwise he wouldn't be threatening another person. Perhaps troubles at home?
Point is, bullying is a major problem. It always was, but way back when we didn't have kids threatening to bring mom/dad's gun to school and kill kids. Back then they just met in an alleyway and duked it out after school. That is why it wasn't so much the school's problem then.
Sounds to me like the Emporia school system needs to catch up with the times and handle situations the appropriate way, rather than stalling and giving the boy more time to plan his revenge.
May 17, 2010 at 6:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
Create
Could you please tell me the difference between ADD and ADHD?
IMHO ADD (attention deficient disorder, I think) rarely really exists. Why you may ask?
My theory is this; If the kid can sit and watch tv, play computer games or do whatever he/she likes, they have no problem with their attention span. Their problem only exists when required to do school work or something they prefer not to do, orrrr when the parent can't control them and would like to have them on drugs. Not to say that it isn't a problem with some, but I think it is way over used as an excuse for lack of disiple or work ethic.
Now to the link you posted to.
The article while well written has a couple of deficiencies.The writer is blaming malathion for ADHD. Possible but isn't big brother looking out for all of us?
Little attempt at humor.
My point is this, the link you posted to blames malathion which has a CAS # of 121-75-5 and a chemical structure of C10 H19 O 6 PS2. Yet further on in the article the writer jumps to dimethyl thiophosphate, which has a CAS # of 40633-14-5 and a chemical structure of C2H703PS. Now which one is to blame, if either?
As you can see totally different chemicals.
Not to say that one or the other couldn't be responsible buttttt, if the editor or the article jumps from one chemical to the other how much can we rely on the content of the artilce being accurate?
May 17, 2010 at 8:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
I have an interesting proposition.
Since one of the leading members of CAE/EDA is now a county office holder, how about she be asked to resign because of past criminal or shady activities?
Just food for thought.
May 17, 2010 at 8:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
Create
After further study I find that as a medicinal use a 0.5% malathion mixture is the most commonly used treatment for head lice and body lice. Maybe the writer of the article should go back and research how many of the ADHD complaintants had multiple treatments for such, instead of blaming it on food.
May 17, 2010 at 8:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
Go akamai!!!!!
May 18, 2010 at 4:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
"Strickland said that the good done by the EDA outweighs other considerations."
So the ends justify the means?
Come on Glen, It's ok to break or bend the law to achieve EDA's goals? Can they even achieve the goals?
"Member Amy Scheller said that EDA staff will assume a number of duties that previously had been handled by Safe and Drug-Free Schools run by Margi Grimwood, who is retiring at the end of the school year."
What good has been done by Safe and Drug Free schools? Has drug/alcohol use by students gone down? What are the stats?
If you wanted Drug Free schools why would you allow a student who brought drugs to school for sale to remain in school after they were caught?
I don't know if Margi's job was a paid or volunteer position, but if it was funded with tax dollars, isn't it a bit hypocritical and just plain stupid to pay her to keep schools drug free and then allow a student bringing drugs to school to sell remain in the school?
May 18, 2010 at 7:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
tbluma,
thanks for an interesting comeback with much good information and great questions too.
First, the difference between ADD and ADHD. They are both attention deficit disorders, but the H stands for hyperactivity. Someone with ADHD will also be hyperactive in addition to the attention deficit.
I'm not as much of an expert on attention deficit disorders as a psychologist or school counselor would be. I do know from my own reading and study that it is more pronounced in boys, while in girls, it eventually clears up on its own. I don't know why. I suspect it to be hormonal, but that's my own thinking and not scientific.
In my own experience, I've seen it more often in boys. There are tricks teachers use to get students back on task and I had a whole bagful, some more effective than others. I personally found one that was most effective and that is to ask the student to close his/her eyes for the slow count of ten. Some research suggests that the disorder is aggravated by visual stimulation, so my method was to remove the visual field for less than a minute. It worked for me.
One trick I used to relieve the student from being singled out was to have an agreement with him/her beforehand at the beginning of the year. "We agree that if I tap your desk or touch your shoulder, that you will close your eyes and count to ten slowly." It worked for me and better yet, it saved them embarassment and they always agreed. Sure works better than a teacher singling the kid out to say, "John, stop staring out the window, or John, pay attention!" Believe me, in a room full of 16-year-olds, it wouldn't take long before they would all start to mimic the teacher and pick on John for a major classroom disruption. There's no sense in allowing a situation to bloom that way. I prefer the silent method.
As you might guess, if visual stimulation is one of the keys to understanding ADD, an elementary classroom with all the colorful stufff all over every wall is the worst place for an ADD kid to be. Again, that's just my own conclusion.
Yes, I have often wondered about selective attention. I myself find my own mind wandering if I am reading something that bores me. Several paragraphs later I catch myself and have to re-read. I could never be a lawyer and read all the legal mumbo jumbo.
You make a very good inference about head lice treatment, something many little kids seem to get, some more often than others. How very interesting and something I'd bet the researchers have not considered. Very good comment.
May 18, 2010 at 8:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sadinemporia (anonymous) says...
There is one word that says it all and that word is POLITICS. Politics are in the city, the county, the school system, church's, industry, car dealerships, hospitals, nursing homes, everywhere. When, and only when you get rid of politics is when the problems start diminishing, until then, you just have to roll with it because it will drive you crazy trying or wanting to change it.
May 18, 2010 at 3:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
sadinemporia, your statements make me VERY sad!!!! What you are saying is simply whatever is done, accept. It is so very wonderful that our constitutional fathers didn't accept that principle. Why do you think we vote? Enjoy your position for I believe that the general public eyes have been opened and things "are changin"!!! Money DOES NOT buy everything!!!! The general public must follow rules (ex:smoking band) so why doesn EDA????????
May 18, 2010 at 4:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
After writing my statement above, have given it some thought and my statement stands BUT in all honesty, can't picture an adult writing the statement written by sadinemporia, so many doors left opened!!!!
May 18, 2010 at 8:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
hogan77 (anonymous) says...
akamai: I have a 12 year old daughter who has relentlessly been teased, taunted and bullied for the past 3 years in school. Please don't go telling me that she is bringing this all on herself. I live in a small community, I know the two girls who have been doing this. I know that my daughter is not the only victim.
Why is it that when no one hears both sides, they automatically assume that the victim is making things up?
Schools have been buckling down on bullying a lot more now than they used to. And when you take a look at all the horrible things that have happened in the past with school shootings, suicides of children, etc... I think it is the best move possible.
May 19, 2010 at 4:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
FarmRaised
I am with you friend, I am also preparing a IRS complaint form to send in. With copies of a lot of pertinent information about EDA/CAE and exactly who just may be some of their silent, so to speak, backers and contributors.
Also the fact that the executive director of EDA/CAE is now an elected public official and that fact in itself may constitute a " conflic of interest " issue.
May 19, 2010 at 12:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
How many of you know, that there are two (2) Emporians for drug awarness orginazitions, so to speak, in Emporia and both are headed by a certain County Commissioner and one is a supposedly a not for profit organizatin located at 315 S. Market St. and the other is an incorporated business located at 1700 W 7th Ave, Emporia, KS., known as Emporians For Drug Awarness, Inc.. And that the amount of annual sales details, on the 1700 W. 7th Ave.business, are locked and you have to regester with the site to obtain estimated annual sales amounts.
As the old " Dane " once said " I smell something rotten in Denmark" .
May 19, 2010 at 1:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
The more I investigate, find out about the EDA/CAE the more I believe that most Emporians have been " bamboozled " , possibly even scammed into losing a portion of their " Freedoms " & " Rights " by some questionalble, supposedly not-for-profit organization and by some possibly illegal/questionable shenagigans
by a group of selfcentered, selfish people.
May 19, 2010 at 2:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
poolguy (anonymous) says...
Some more articles for your submissions...
http://www.emporiagazette.com/news/20...
http://www.emporiagazette.com/news/20...
http://www.emporiagazette.com/news/20...
May 19, 2010 at 3:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sadinemporia (anonymous) says...
sandman: Are you kidding me? You must be somewhat naive and good for you that you are optimistic, however, get real. Politics plays a role in everything.
May 19, 2010 at 4:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sadinemporia (anonymous) says...
sandman: One more thing, I really do want to be wrong about the whole political view, however, experience is where I am coming from. Another thing, money CAN buy a lot. I do agree with you however, about the EDA following the rules, however, I will bring up that dirty rotten word again...POLITICS. We shall see if something actually happens, if it does, I will be pleasantly surprised and pleased.
May 19, 2010 at 4:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
admireed (anonymous) says...
Farm...How do I download Attachments?
Clicked on item and nothing happened.
Edward McKernan
May 19, 2010 at 5:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Farmraised,
Check with Tammy Vopat at the Lyon County courthouse. She should have a listing of contributors and expenditures of all parties involved in the smoking ban election.
Who paid for all those full page ads and all that radio advertising. EDA?
CAE? Tobacco free Kansas? Robert Woods foundation, (another tax free 501c-3)?
If you really want the run-around call the city manager and ask for documents concerning the liquor excise tax dollars given to EDA or the School district.
May 19, 2010 at 6:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Edward,
If you tried the Kansas document links I think they must be gone or not working. I couldn't pull them up.
May 19, 2010 at 6:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
poolguy (anonymous) says...
i was just able to pull them up. Make sure you have adobe reader installed. if nothing else, right click on them and choose "save target as" and save them to your computer and open them that way.
May 19, 2010 at 6:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Another news story linkingfor the IRS:
http://www.wibw.com/home/headlines/38...
May 19, 2010 at 7:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
driveonby (anonymous) says...
The Emporia Gazette was fully aware of the funding, and of the illegal lobbying activity of Walters, the Health Department employees, and other "non- profit" groups. Nothing we tried to do to make them print both sides of this issue worked. Ms. Walters won her election as a reward from her grant givers for producing the smoking ban. The American Cancer Society, the Heart and Lung Associations shared a $99,000,000.00 grant, (for lobbying purposes) from the same company that sent grants to Walters and the Emporia Gazette (for ads). This money is funneled into Kansas through Tobacco Free Kansas, the Kansas Health Foundation, and the Kansas Health Institute, and then distributed to other non profits. Notice they all sound rather official? They are NOT. They are lobbying groups who are paid to produce smoking bans, that will get people onto the products of the Johnson and Johnson "family" of companies, which include Pfizer, J&J, Glaxo, and MacNeal. they sell Nicoderm, Nicoderm CQ, Nicorette, Nicotrol, and Chantix. J&Js last year sales were over 64 BILLION. Pfizer's last quarter reported 16 MILLION over estimated earnings. Follow the money into every county health department in Kansas, and into the nursing schools, (where they sign up temporary students to vote for their bans) and into the full page ads in the newspapers, and into the pockets of lobbyists, and into the campaign coffers of elected officials. You can find one VERY close by in Emporia!!!!!!! He is going to be rewarded for his lobbying for the smoking ban. He is not getting MY vote. I consider him a bought off flunkey of pharma, and if he gets to Washington he will serve the same masters that he did here. Pharma and insurance. The Gazette knew. It sickens me.
May 19, 2010 at 8:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Great post driveonby. Lots of excellent information. Before long, we'll be hearing from Jim Barnett who wants our vote when he runs for congress.
May 19, 2010 at 8:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
Just this evening saw Mr. Barnett eating out with a number of college students, getting ready for elections??????
May 19, 2010 at 10:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
sadinemporia,couldn't sleep, felt you deserved a response, good or bad. Yes, there is politics in just about everything, of some form. That is where you come in as part of society, being informed or what is commonly called "being educated". If you go out to buy a car, yes, that salesman will try to sell you what HE thinks you need not necessary what you WANT. You need to know BEFORE looking, what you want, price range, etc. Government politics is no different. That politician is going to try to "sell" you on his ideas concerning how he thinks society should operate, it is up to you to decide if you feel the same. The mistake so many people make is NOT being informed. Just as you wouldn't buy a car not knowing make,model, etc., we shouldn't pick out the people who will be representing us just by their name, looks etc.but what will they do for our nation, US! while in office. You will need to dig deep because, as in the past, some are very good at selling their points but very poor in carrying those points out.Be INFORMED!!!!Make sure they have an engine and that engine runs.
May 20, 2010 at 1:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
driveonby (anonymous) says...
Fuzzy “Facts” vs Freedom in Smoking Ban Debate
Paul Soutar on February 11, 2010
There’s almost no debate that smoking is unhealthy, but there’s plenty of debate about whether and how to implement a statewide ban on smoking in public to reduce exposure to second-hand smoke. Interested citizens, lobbyists and speakers filled the Health and Human Services hearing room in the Docking building Wednesday.
.
Lobbyists and business owners spoke in favor of a ban similar to the one in force in Wichita, which allows business to choose to pay for a permit, post signs that the business allows smoking and prohibit minors from entering. Business owners, pro-tobacco lobbyists and committee members also addressed the hypocrisy of an exemption for state-owned casinos.
.
This falsehood is so big it resonates from historical fact forward to this day. This falsehood is so big billions of dollars have been spent to make it believable to those of us who dont take the time to look up the facts.
Remember they claim 50,000 deaths a year yet,there are no bodys not even mass graves of the dead to second hand smoke.We await the names of these victims.
A federal Judge got a case dropped in his lap in North Carolina,the case was that of EPA’S study on second hand smoke/environmental tobacco smoke.The judge an anti-tobbaco judge by reputation spent 4 years going thru the study and interviewing scientists at EPA and came to the conclusion :
JUNK SCIENCE
”EPA’s 1992 conclusions are not supported by reliable scientific evidence. The report has been largely discredited and, in 1998, was legally vacated by a federal judge.Before its 1992 report, EPA had always used epidemiology’s gold standard CI of 95 percent to measure statistical significance. But because the U.S. studies chosen[cherry picked] for the report were not statistically significant within a 95 percent CI, for the first time in its history EPA changed the rules and used a 90 percent CI, which doubled the chance of being wrong.
This allowed it to report a statistically significant 19 percent increase [a 1.19rr] of lung cancer cases in the nonsmoking spouses of smokers over those cases found in nonsmoking spouses of nonsmokers. Even though the RR was only 1.19–an amount far short of what is normally required to demonstrate correlation or causality–the agency concluded this was proof SHS increased the risk of U.S. nonsmokers developing lung cancer by 19 percent.”
The political shenanigans surrounding SHS/ETS go deep not only with the government and its health agencies but also to the big pharmaceutical companies and non-profit orginizations aka ACS,ALA,AHA and a myriad of others. All lobbying for smoking bans and their weapon of choice Propaganda paid for by big pharma and tax dollars. Studys made to order that second hand smoke is deadly. Take a memory note here too,over 250 studys on shs/ets have found it safe.
May 20, 2010 at 8:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
driveonby (anonymous) says...
Yet a simple look at the chemistry shows us that its:
The Chemistry of Secondary Smoke About 94% of secondary smoke is composed of water vapor and ordinary air with a slight excess of carbon dioxide. Another 3 % is carbon monoxide. The last 3 % contains the rest of the 4,000 or so chemicals supposedly to be found in smoke… but found, obviously, in very small quantities if at all.This is because most of the assumed chemicals have never actually been found in secondhand smoke. (1989 Report of the Surgeon General p. 80). Most of these chemicals can only be found in quantities measured in nanograms, picograms and femtograms. Many cannot even be detected in these amounts: their presence is simply theorized rather than measured. To bring those quantities into a real world perspective, take a saltshaker and shake out a few grains of salt. A single grain of that salt will weigh in the ballpark of 100 million picograms! (Allen Blackman.
Now, how odd that when we search the smoke free activists sites not one of them mentions that water vapor and air are the main components of second hand smoke. Is this just a fluke or an outright omission to further their political healthscare against the general public.
The last informative tid bit I have for you is what does OSHA have to say about all this secondhand smoke stuff.
Kansas Watchdog
Here is where it gets interesting,it seems John Banzhaf, founder and president of Action on Smoking and Health (ASH) decided to sue OSHA to make a rule on shs/ets not that OSHA didnt want to play ball with him,its just that the scientific facts didnt back up a rule to start with.
Now for a rule to happen Osha has to send out for comments for a period of time and boy did the comments fly in, over 40,000 of them….Osha has whats called PEL’S and limits for an 8 hour period of exposure to chemicals in indoor environments…[epa is in charge of outdoor air]
This is where second hand smoke really becomes a joke,remember its nearly 94% water vapor and air…..now lets get to the facts of toxicology and dose makes the poison:
May 20, 2010 at 8:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
driveonby (anonymous) says...
According to independent Public and Health Policy Research group, Littlewood & Fennel of Austin, Tx, on the subject of secondhand smoke……..
They did the figures for what it takes to meet all of OSHA’S minimum PEL’S on shs/ets…….Did it ever set the debate on fire.
They concluded that:
All this is in a small sealed room 9×20 and must occur in ONE HOUR.
For Benzo[a]pyrene, 222,000 cigarettes
“For Acetone, 118,000 cigarettes
“Toluene would require 50,000 packs of simultaneously smoldering cigarettes.
Acetaldehyde or Hydrazine, more than 14,000 smokers would need to light up.
“For Hydroquinone, “only” 1250 cigarettes
For arsenic 2 million 500,000 smokers at one time
The same number of cigarettes required for the other so called chemicals in shs/ets will have the same outcomes.
So,OSHA finally makes a statement on shs/ets :
Field studies of environmental tobacco smoke indicate that under normal conditions, the components in tobacco smoke are diluted below existing Permissible Exposure Levels (PELS.) as referenced in the Air Contaminant Standard (29 CFR 1910.1000)…It would be very rare to find a workplace with so much smoking that any individual PEL would be exceeded.” -Letter From Greg Watchman, Acting Sec’y, OSHA, To Leroy J Pletten, PHD, July 8, 1997
WHAT! DILUTED BELOW PERMISSABLE LEVELS
By the way ASH dropped their lawsuit because OSHA was going to make a rule and that rule would have been weak and been the law of the land,meaning no smoking bans would ever have been enacted anywhere,simply because an open window or a ventilation system would have covered the rule.
Let me also tell you that the relative risk for shs/ets by the SG report of 2006 was a 1.19 ”EPA study is whats used to call it a carcinogen”……milks is a 2.43 and that glass of chlorinated water your about to drink is a 1.25 yet these things aren’t determined to be a carcinogen….The gold standard in epidemiology is a 3.0….Now had the SURGEON GENERAL included 2 other shs/ets studys the relative risk for disease from shs/ets would have been nearer a.60-.70 meaning it would have a protective effect against ever getting disease.
The next time you see a healthscare claim
consider the source.Especially if it comes from a government or non profit agency!
There has never been a single study showing that exposure to the low levels of smoke found in bars and restaurants with decent modern ventilation and filtration systems kills or harms anyone.
A small amount of smoke from tobacco in a decently ventilated venue
is a statistically insignificant health risk..
http://thetruthisalie.com
http://www.citizensfreedomalliance.org
May 20, 2010 at 8:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
driveonby (anonymous) says...
Follow the money. Walters, Barnett, Health Department grants, newspaper revenue from ads, skyrocketing cost of nicotine replacement. Then remember that the new "war" on sugar started the day that Johnson and Johnson bought the rights to Splenda. The same paid tobacco nannies are now paid fat nannies. God Bless America, and God Bless small business people. They had the courage to invest their times and lives to providing jobs and revenue. The grant sponges do nothing but take take take. But they have the money from pharma to drive us all crazy with their nonsense. Sorry the truth is lengthy, the truth always is. It's never a soundbite.
Send Barnett to Washington and he will serve the same masters that he has here. And it won't be small business people.
May 20, 2010 at 8:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
driveonby (anonymous) says...
http://www.acpm.org/education/residen...
Here is why and how Pfizer and other members of the Johnson and Johnson "family" of companies has come to own our government. It's for their own profit, at our expense. It is to lobby to make laws that help sell their own products. Simple marketing plan. Brilliant. And it reaches right into the Health Department and into the County Commission and to political candidates.
May 20, 2010 at 9:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
butterfly (anonymous) says...
Bullying is a learned behavior, usually learned in the home. How about as a community people step up and start holding PARENTS accountable for their children's bullying behavior - instead of pointing fingers and judging how the school is handling it with limited resources and restrictions on what can even be done. Find out who the kids parents are - and go have a chat with them.
May 20, 2010 at 2:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
I agree with you assesment of bullying being a learned behavior.
The problem in this instance is, the little word " alleged ' , which seems to give the parties involved, schools and school board the authority to " not " inform all of the students parents that there was an " alleged " threat . And a childs safety, while attending a public school, that is funded with taxpayer funds, is everyones business .
May 20, 2010 at 3:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
butterfly (anonymous) says...
Methusla...I am confident that if there was a real and true threat to the safety of the children in the care of USD 253, in any building, parents would be notified. I will also say, if parents were notified every time a child of 9 or 10 reported a potential incident to a teacher....parents would stop ignoring notes home.
May 21, 2010 at 9:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )