reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...

Go to Thursday, July 29th {Vote No} and then you will know the rest of the story and I'm round'n third and head'n home.

July 31, 2010 at 6:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...

I like a little rebellion now and then. It is like a storm in the atmosphere. Thomas Jefferson.

July 31, 2010 at 7:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

This 1/2 cent tax HAS NOT KEPT PROPERTY TAXES DOWN !

The real estate bubble and exploding home values did that.

All this tax has done has been to give the city less than a million a year in extra revenue to spend.

The way to keep the mill-levy down is to budget and spend less. Not transfer taxes from the wealthy land owners and developers and those who have income producing property, to the folks who may be lucky enough to own the house they live in on a fixed income.

I can see why those who own millions in property in Emporia would be for this tax.

The old ways of economic developement, (millions in incentives) needs to be changed.

How about this;

We love our town, and hey, (insert name of big industry here), you are invited to share in our way of life. We have good schools, beautiful parks,a small university, friendly hard working residents, and a small but diversified retail mix. We are located smack dab in the middle of a huge transportation corridor , with good roads and rail service.
We want you to locate here and can help with tax exemptions on your investment in our community.

Because of this we can offer your company and it's employees a great standard of living with low property and sales taxes. Welcome to Emporia !

What CEO wouldn't jump at that sales pitch. :-)

July 31, 2010 at 7:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

In the above I meant to say;

The real estate bubble and exploding home values kept the mill-levy down and taxes still went up.

July 31, 2010 at 7:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

The top 2 stories on the forum kind of says it all.

Yes to tax extension.

Make cuts or tax more for budget.

July 31, 2010 at 7:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

irishemporia (anonymous) says...

Steve, in what areas would you trim the budget and/or spend less?

July 31, 2010 at 7:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

irishemporia,

I gave some ideas on the other thread, but let me suggest this.

It is not MY job to trim the budget and/or spend less. I pay someone else to do that, the commission and city manager work for me.

It is also not the city commissioners job to decide where to cut each individual departments budget.

That job falls on the individual dept. heads and city management.

The commission needs ACCURATE revenue estimates to work from.
Then they have the info needed to decide the budget.

If revenues are down 10%, the city budget goes down 10%.

If revenues are down 26% the city budget goes down 26%.

The commissioners decide which department gets what percentage of the revenue stream. Then it should be up to the department head to work within that budget.

Example;

If the police department is normally allocated 30% of city operating expenses they still get the 30% allocation, it's just 10% or 26% less than the prior year, whatever the percentage of the dropped revenue is.

It's really pretty simple.

With the last few years of inflating property values, the cities revenues have risen from property taxes. Now the property values are stagnent or dropping the revenue will be less. And by the end of next year we will be absent the Fanestil property tax income and around 80 jobs. so there is a need to start the cuts now.

What are your ideas?

July 31, 2010 at 8:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mslater (Matt Slater) says...

According to the school district, enrollment numbers are dropping, which to me means there are less people in this town, which also means there are less services the city is required to provide, which means they should need less tax money to provide said services.

WHEW!

July 31, 2010 at 9:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

justaflushaway (anonymous) says...

why didn't you mention the company that you LOBBY for,,,, weststar? how much of this money was spent on weststar to get a handful of employees to work,

VOTE NO
VOTE NO
VOTE NO

STEVE YOU REALLY MAKE A LOT OF SENSE AND WHAT YOU SAY IS CORRECT, unlike weststars butt boy

amazing how you continue to suck up every time you open your pie-hole schriber

July 31, 2010 at 9:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...

Go to YouTube Tom Woods "Meltdown" on Glen Beck 02 09 09.

July 31, 2010 at 9:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

Here are some things I believe that the taxpayers and voters of Emporia need to ask themselves .

1. Can the RDA, Emporians for Growth, City Manager or City commissioners guarantee that if the sales tax extension is approved by voters, property taxes wil not be increased ?
2. Can the RDA, City Manager,
Emporians for Growth and City Commissioners guarantee there will be more businesses, industrys and jobs come to Emporia ?
3. Can the RDA, City Commissioners, Emporians for Growth guarantee that in 15 years from now, they will not again demand another sales tax estension or property tax increase, in order to sustain their " extemporaneous " spending and taxation habits/way of doing things ?
3. Do you want to pass the legacy of , constantly paying ever extending sales taxes and the cloud of possibly paying higher property taxes, just so a few people can have what they dream or want, on to your children, your grand children, your great grandchildren, and so on, and so on . As well as the idea that a balanced City budget is absolutely impossible to achieve and the spend, tax, tax, spend, etc. is the normal way of doing things ?

You need to ask yourselves these things, because the City Manager, RDA, Emporians for Growth, City Commissioners and others can promise you anything, as promises are just words, propaganda, Smoke and Mirrors ... in order to get you to give them what they want. However, all they can " Guarantee " you is more debt, more taxes and continually asking for more, more, more .

So if you wish to continue to give the RDA, City of Emporia and others more and more money and continue to keep paying 1/2 cent more in sales tax, indefinately and face the proposition of increased property taxes, as I for one have never seen a tax extension or tax increase ever end or decrease once it has been extended or increased. If this is what you are happy with, then by all means vote " YES " on the sales tax extension question. However if you are fed up with the way things are done and the constant spending and taxing. Then I strongly urge you to vote " NO " on the sales tax extension .

July 31, 2010 at 9:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

Which will be the bigger headline on Wed. gazette?

Tax extension approved/ diasapproved.

Fanestils announces they are moving out of Lyon County.

The anticipation is killing me, not!

July 31, 2010 at 9:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

REWBA (anonymous) says...

These people love to promote tourism out of one side of their mouth and out of the other side of their mouth they say "stick it to the out-of-towners!" TOO FUNNY!

They should have put that in their big "O" add. Come to Emporia and well stick it to ya!

Seriously though, it's only 1/2 cent tax. If you vote no, these tourist friendly folks will just up the hotel tax a couple percentages and keep on keeping on. If you vote yes, they will probably read what I just said and do that too. Have fun voting!

July 31, 2010 at 11:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

REWBA (anonymous) says...

Some communities are quite creative in the way that they bill insurance companies when out of towners have an auto accident in their town.
"The fees are already built into most auto insurance policies and Placer Fire would be charging a standard $400 for the presence of one fire engine and three firefighters at the scene of an accident." http://auburnjournal.com/detail/14657...
See the ways to make up revenue shortfalls with out of towners is endless. :-)

July 31, 2010 at 11:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

But, when an " outoftowner " stays or visits or shops in one city or town. And then stays or visits another City or town that is equal in every way as the other town ... but it cost the "outoftowner " less to visit, stay or shop the second town visited, don' t you think that " outoftowner is no longer going to visit the first town or City and visit, stay and shop at the town that costs less to visit, stay and shop at ? Besides telling all of his friends, realtives, etc., to visit, stay and shop at the town or City that costs less !

It is possible for a city/town to tax its way right out of the visitor, tourist market and its own existence.. There has been many towns that have become non-existent because of charging to much in the way of taxes and prices.

July 31, 2010 at 11:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...

You will find out soon that there are some other things taking place in this community that will be a huge tax burden and it has to do with local health care. Now is the time to cut spending.

July 31, 2010 at 11:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

Steve,

'Another thing I noticed on the City Budget in almost every department a listing for " Commodities " expenditures.
I for one would like to know exactly what type of " Commodities " each department is purchasing, is it coffee, doughnuts, bottled water, nonessential supplies or essential supplies, etc.
If there are non-essential commodities being purchased, then cut that expense.

On another thread, I made mention of the money pit known as JAC. I would suggest that the City of Emporia and possible the RDA or the Emporians for Growth, as an experiment, try and find a private party that would be interested in buying that " dead cow " and see if they get any nibbles and if they do, unload it as fast as possible.

And if the RDA or the Emporians for Growth are so committed to the future of Emporia. Why don' t they see if they can get a Federal Grant to " GROW " Emporia and see what happens with that.
That way, everyone in the U.S. would be sharing in the cost to " Grow " Emporia and not just the poor " strapped " taxpayers of Emporia and the just the visitors to and traveling through Emporia.
Oh, and cut the " appropreations'grants given to the RDA and any other groups or organizations by no less than 15%, that should save some money also . Shoot, a 15% reduction in the grant to the RDA would save $ 33,750 a year by itself.

July 31, 2010 at 11:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

admireed (anonymous) says...

It is amazing to read all this. Some people just do not get it!

Edward McKernan

July 31, 2010 at 1:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

irishemporia (anonymous) says...

Steve, I know it's not your job to trim the budget, etc., but I'd still like to know what you are thinking. I thought Methusla had some decent thoughts on areas that could be cut.

Ed, what are you thinking as far as those who don't get it.

July 31, 2010 at 1:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

Ed, I get it alright.

I just can't afford it anymore.

July 31, 2010 at 3:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

booker5m (anonymous) says...

If you dont agree with their point they always say you just dont get it lol

July 31, 2010 at 3:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

irishemporia,

Here are a few ideas I posted on another thread, in case you didn't find them.

Well, I looked at the budget and a couple of things stood out.

The use of the words misc. fees, misc transfers should not be allowed.

The estimated income from sales tax is only 5% down, and liquor and transient guest tax est. tax figures show no estimated decrease--- they should.

Every dept that has a positive cash balance is showing a spending down of its cash balance instead of making some needed cuts.

The CVB transfer has an increase of 17-18 thousand dollars, Must be paying for another O ad.

The water or sewer budget has an 18 % admin fee? What the heck?

As far as the things meth has mentioned I think they were just put in the budget for padding, so the city could say, we will cut or delay these until our budget is better. Most of them were listed as Capitol projects but were not funded.

so here are my ideas of CUTS!

1. the city should estimate ALL revenues at 10% less than the current revenues.

2. The city should cut each departments budget by 10%, across the board.

3, No merit raises for anyone earning more than 50K.

4.Absolutley NO budget for travel or training.

5.Sell the property north of the library to private individuals and get it on the tax roles. We don't need a larger library.

6. A capital outlay project freeze for two years.

7. Request those good Emporians who work for the city and make over 100 K a year to take a 5% pay cut, just to show good faith and that they care about our hometown.
July 30, 2010 at 9:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Add to these;
Cut all quality of life funding at least 50%

Example:

The arts council is budgeted 4,000.00, an amount I am sure they could raise through the private sector until times are better. They are building a million plus new building arn't they? And I have nothing against the arts, before someone asks.

It may also be time to think about selling the golf course to a private business. Some cities are doing this to cut expenses, and no, I don't hate golfers either.

July 31, 2010 at 5:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

I get the fact that the whole country is in one of the worst ecomonic downturns and recessions since the great depression of 1929 to 1933 and most learned economists are saying that this current recession and economic downturn may not turn around for some time now, possibly 10 years. I also get the fact that a State, City, County or Federal government doesn' t continue to spend money needlessly, in times of depressed econony, jobs loss, 9.6% unenmployment and giving money away as though there were some magical money river or well that does not or will not run dry.

And what I do get is the money well, river is starting to run dry and the well and river gods ( taxpayers ) that kept the money well/river full and flowing are fed up and had enough of the same old shoveling of B.S. to keep the spend and tax policies of the " money mongers " in tact . And the money well/river Gods are angry and dissatisfied .

I get the fact that JAC only created a hand full of jobs for the money invested and that JAC has yet to show a return on the investment.

What do you do with a stock you own that is not performing and will make you money on your investment ? You dump it as quickly as you can, if you can' t afford to hang on to it, hoping it will give you a substantial return.

I do get it that the City of Emporia is carring a massive debt that is far larger than any benefit that the RDA, Emporians for Growth or the City Commision has managed to cause to happen.

I do get it that this massive debt that the City has incurred over the last ten years or so has been caused by the RDA and the City Commissioners hedging on the ability to pay back loans and the fact that they do not have a crystal ball or ouija board that will predict to them when sales tax revenues will fall 26% short of expectations. You see the only thing you can definately " expecte " from " expections/proposed " outcomes is you must be prepared to " expect " the " unexpected " !!!

I also get the fact that you don' t throw money at something, unless it is a guaranteed sure thing, and the RDA or Emporians for Growth are not sure things.

I also get it, that you don' t spend money you neither have or may not get in the amount you prophesied or " expected " .

I also get it, that you can' t spend your way to prosperity or growth. Especially now, in these depressed times.

Now Mr. McKernan, please elaborate on exactly what it is I don' t get !!!!

July 31, 2010 at 5:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

Steve,

Besides the cuts I mentioned, I was also thinking along the same lines as you when you made up you list.

July 31, 2010 at 5:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

Oh, yeah, I have come up with more expediture cuts that I believe are not needed now and will bring them to the attention of the City Commissioners by publicly telling them where to cut and giving them a list of where to make cuts.

No doubt I will be cooly received and even shouted down. But what the Hey. I am a big thick skinned Emporia Boy who is madder-n-hell and can take it.

July 31, 2010 at 6:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

Irishemporia

So may I put a few questions to you and Ed?

1. What's so wrong with a small town?

2. How much taxation is too much?

3. Have you both really given up and fallen for the mantra "if you don't vote for this tax, your other taxes will go up".

You both know it doesn't have to be that way.

Steve

July 31, 2010 at 6:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

Oh yeah, there is one more thing that " I GET " and it is the fact that the only person/people who are guaranteed any kind of return from there investment when there is a " LAND ACQUISITION " is the person/people who own the land that is to be " AQUISITIONED/AQUIRED " !!!
Hows that for getting it.

July 31, 2010 at 6:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

Meth, I know your mad but calm down.

I will disagree with you on 1 point, (in part) While many disagreed with the location and scope of the swimming pool complex, (myself included), it was never intended to show a profit or even break even. Recreation and parks are part of what makes a town, and it should be funded with taxpayer money. (See my above about the golf course) It has been built and we are saddled with it now, so we need to make do.

I DO AGREE with you however, that a $400,000.00 wading pool has got to be one of the most asinine ideas I have ever heard in this town! Especially since the exsisting pool area has a zero entry feature. ( i think that's what it's called, you know where it starts out no water and gradually deepens.)

Any way, just relax, and try to vote Monday, before noon. Just in case something else comes up on Tues.

July 31, 2010 at 6:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...

Mark Schreiber,
No.

Sincerely,
Me

July 31, 2010 at 8:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

Steve,

I am sorry for getting a little hot under the collar about all this. My sister and I did not get to vote yesterday, because of a small family crisis and then today I recieve a phone call from my son, who tells me, while he was working at the plasma cutting table at NIM , the damned thing exploded/blew up like a bomb and he and a co worker are very lucky to be alive and have only minor or superficial injuries and he said that a 7 ton , 1 inch thick sheet of steel was what actually shielded him and a co-worker from the major force of the blast, but that the blast pretty much destroyed the plasma cutter and cutting table. He said the blast threw the fairly large piece of steel he was getting ready to cut about 10 to 15 feet in the air .
He said that the only thing he is experiencing now is a loud ringing in his ears. I told him that he was very lucky and that someone " high up " was watching over him and his co-worker.
NIM is a fairly dangerous place to work, because of the massive amounts of weight of the metal they have to work with. And I worry about him each and every day, working there. Even though he will be 46 years old next month. But he is my only son, so I will worry about him and his 44 year old sister until the day I die .
So you see my last couple of days have not been the very best I have had. Barring anything else happening, I am sure I will have calmed down by the time the budget hearing takes place .

Be well and prosper, my friend.

July 31, 2010 at 8:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

admireed (anonymous) says...

Meth...we need to sit down over a cup of coffee sometime for a discussion of these issues

Edward McKernan

July 31, 2010 at 9:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

News from kvoe web site:

Earlier this year, state lawmakers increased the sales tax from 5.3 to 6.3 percent as a way to generate income. It's not working the way legislators had hoped -- at least not with the first set of numbers involving the new tax rate.

Friday's report from the Kansas Department of Revenue shows sales tax collections for the month $2.3 million lower than anticipated.

Rep. Peggy Mast (R-Emporia) tells KVOE News the sales tax is driving many residents near the Missouri and Oklahoma state lines to shop in those states rather than in Kansas.

Lawmakers were already preparing for some extremely tough choices when they line out the fiscal 2012 budget next year. Mast says this only heightens the worry in Topeka.

Overall tax revenue for July totaled $378.9 million, compared with an expected $379.3 million. Kansas collected $344.3 million in taxes in July 2009.

Offsetting the decline in sale taxes were increased collections of individual income taxes and corporate franchise fees. Income taxes beat the estimate by more than $1 million. Mast says this may be a sign the state's job market is improving.

KVOE News reporter Chuck Samples contributed to this report.

Ms. Mast thinks people are going to Mo. and Ok. for purchases. Hummmmm!

August 1, 2010 at 7:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

With the economy the way it is now, most businesses are afraid to hire new workers. With newly enacted healthcare mandates and financial reform most are in a "wait and see" mode. Also, the credit market is real tough now, (think REG).

Because of this it would be nice to know, how many of these local industries that have recieved "perfomance based incentives"
are hiring temporary workers at below the wages stated when they recieved the incentives.

And did those jobs created listed on the cities flyer include temp workers, working at a lower wage?

Also some of the top paid wage earners of these industries live outside of Emporia and commute daily from Topeka, Chase, Coffee and Morris counties. How does THAT help create high paying jobs for Emporia?

August 1, 2010 at 8:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

eldiablo (anonymous) says...

Cheese and rice people, it's half a cent...

August 1, 2010 at 9:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

Steve,

You said and asked, " Because of this it would be nice to know, how many of these local industries that have recieved "perfomance based incentives"
are hiring temporary workers at below the wages stated when they recieved the incentives. "

I believe I may be able to name one industry. Menu

August 1, 2010 at 9:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

I say this, because my daughter applied at Menu. They told her they would hire her, at, I believe she said, $7.50 per hour with no guarantee of being a full time worker.

August 1, 2010 at 9:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

p.s.

or permanent worker.

August 1, 2010 at 9:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

Now thats, real progress and something to be proud of for a $ 27 million dollar investment . I wonder what another $27 million dollar sales tax extension will accomplish over another 10 years.

Vote Yes ! Not on your life !

August 1, 2010 at 9:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...

AN OPEN MIND COLLECTS MORE RICHES THAN AN OPEN PURSE-WILL HENRY.

August 1, 2010 at 9:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

On another thread, commissioner Longbine had the following to say.

Commissioner Jeff Longbine said he thinks the drop is mostly an aberration. Commissioners decided to keep the estimate at 5 percent.

“I think we’ll see a rebound in the economy,” he said.

Well I sugget that commissiioner Longbine, the other commissioners, the RDA, Emporians for growth and others go to the following web page and see what some of the real economic experts are saying. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38507261/...

August 1, 2010 at 10:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

eldiablo,

Yes your right, "it's a half a cent"

and right now I and probably you are giving the different governmental taxing units over 55% of what we make. 1/2 cent here, a 1/2 cent there and pretty soon your'e talking real money.

At SOME TIME, YOU will get tired of it and say stop.

I'm there now.

August 1, 2010 at 10:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...

It's time to connect thedots and let these con men know what you think about their ethics. What I see is a tangled web of coharts with deep financial ties of their own.

August 1, 2010 at 11:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

booker5m (anonymous) says...

There is one family here in town that has benefited more than once from land sales to the city.

August 1, 2010 at 6:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...

When a city says money can do anything, that settles it, we don't have any. The best cure for the Emporia economy is economy.

August 1, 2010 at 9:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

skraps (anonymous) says...

I really agree with all those who say "vote no" to the sales tax extension. I haven't researched the budget, nor have I done any fact based research on the results of the 1/2 cent sales tax thus far. However, I have witnessed first-hand the overall effect that the recent sales tax increases have had on our community and its residents because I work in retail. I have had some long-time regular customers that I haven't in quite a while. I don't think the reason they stopped coming in is that they stopped needing the merchandise I sell either...

I don't understand how our tax rate in Emporia is just 0.15% lower than the rate in Topeka. On some level, Emporia retailers MAY be able to compete with the pricing(sometimes with DEEP discounts at a loss of revenue), but we cannot compete with Topeka's selection of stores or restaurants. So if people want to do some back to school shopping and have a little extra time, it's a pretty easy decision in most cases. Not everyone has the means to "Shop Emporia first," especially when you can hit the clearance sales in Topeka and buy name brand items at the same (or less) price as WalMart's bargain brands.

Also, I don't think that anyone believes that this 1/2 cent sales tax will be a major burden on the majority of Lyon County residents, just that it's one of many places that a tax cut can be made.

It's obvious that the 1/2 cent sales tax has been used to create/keep some jobs in Emporia, But was the cost worth the result? I don't believe it was but if anyone wants to prove me and others wrong, VOTE NO. :)

August 1, 2010 at 10:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

blulitespecial (anonymous) says...

I'm on the "NO" side.I live in the county,and Emporia is my source for food,fuel,and services.I also saved 400 bucks this week by having lumber delivered from Topeka.That was just on the purchase price,and delivery was only $15 to Americus.
It is time to cut taxes.This type of taxing only pits city to city,and county against county for what few dollars remain here.Taxes are going up at the first of the year,too.We have to cut locally now,and then go after the State and Fed after the elections.

August 2, 2010 at 11:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

nutsaboutools (anonymous) says...

I just think it's too early to vote on the extension that still has another 4? years. Right now I see little change in Emporia.

I'd like to see what happens in the next couple of years (about how long it will take for this economic situation to turn around and improve).

Can our leaders develop a long range plan? Can they produce a "balanced" budget (where spending is <= revenue)?

Until then, I'm voting NO, sorry Mark.

August 2, 2010 at 12:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

Anyone hear the rumour that the Lebo City council rezoned the land around Kan Build company with zoning suitable to a meat packing plant?

I don't know, you would think that if that is true one of our reputable news outlets would have reported on it by now. I guess IF is true, it just shows how, the city, county, RDA, and the news outlets operate here in Emporia, with their gentlemanly aggreements. I would hate to see the bar tab at the ecc.

If the rumour isn't true I would really have to apologize for doubting our local news media.

JMO

August 2, 2010 at 12:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

Steve,

I had not heard that about the Lebo City Council. And just wanted to let you know I advance voted this morning at 8:30 a.m. and I was number 914. It appears there may be a fairly good turn out for this vote.

August 2, 2010 at 1:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

Steve, the lady who answers the phone at the Lebo City office says she has received many, many phone calls with regard to this rumor you heard. She says that the commission has not yet made any motions; however, they did discuss the matter of rezoning that land when they had their last meeting just last month.

If they do it, and they get Fanestil's to locate there, power to them. They have rail service over there too. This will be Emporia's loss because the city can't seem to play their cards right with Fanestil's. Emporia city spends too damn much time fooling around and whining about their losses instead of taking care of offering a tighter deal to a company like that.

Can we blame Fanestil's? It's all about money, and it's all about saving taxes. I'm willing to admit that. That's business.

I remember all the screaming about "not in my backyard" when the nuclear power plant wanted to locate near here. Where are all those screamers now? The rest is history!

August 2, 2010 at 1:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

Steve & create,

And the sad thing is, if Lebo does happen to entice Fanestils away from Emporia and Lyon County ... That will just prove that as Heerman said, Emporia has a hard time competing with the likes of Topeka, Lawrence, Manhattan and the larger cities with a larger tax base to draw funds from, but the reality will be that Emporia can not even compete with the the smaller towns, like Lebo for businesses and jobs . Kinda amazing how the RDA, Emporians for Growth want to grow Emporia and bring businsesses, industry and jobs to Emporia . When they won' t even do anything to save one of the oldest businesses in Emporia and the 80 jobs that are there. I guess that is the RDA, Emporians for Growth and the Emporia City Commission at work.
They would rather spend money needlessly on the likes of a wading pool for JAC, a quiet zone and landscaping the Citys entrances, that would have a total cost of over $ 2 millions dollars rather than save a business and 80 jobs.
The people who are supposed to be leading Emporia, don' t deserve any more of the taxpayers money to waste on frivilous trinkets .

August 2, 2010 at 1:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

methusla, You bring out a very good point about Emporia not even being able to compete with a smaller town like Lebo not to mention the larger ones Heerman mentioned. That's just another excuse anyway.

Some say, well it's only 80 jobs. I don't know who the hell those people think they are to belittle 80 jobs. First of all, those 80 jobs have children.

Let's say it averages out to two kids for each of those 80 people, and those kids go to school here. That's 160 kids X $4,000 per head paid by the state to USD 253. You do the math. It's a lot of money. And that's just for school. That's not counting what 80 families spend for rent, groceries, gasoline, clothes, shoes, pizza and what have you.

I'm afraid Emporia is wasting its time with high dollar foo foo concerns like landscaping entrances and wishing for certain retail places. Oh, and let's not forget spending ten grand on a one-time ad in Oprah magazine.

Man, Emporia, take care of the little stuff if you want big stuff to happen.

August 2, 2010 at 3:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

emporian (anonymous) says...

Can't blame them if they go to Lebo. At that parcel they would have interstate frontage with much lower property taxes and 1.5% lower sales tax.

August 2, 2010 at 3:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

create and methusla,

No apologies yet. I'll wait for the annoucement from Fanestil officials.

an announcement that will probably come this week, AFTER the election.

But you are correct, more power to Fanestil meats. They had to do what was best for them. It would be nice if that meant they stayed in Lyon County but it's not looking like that will happen.
I'll still buy their party time ham and their baked beans. Ummmm good!

August 2, 2010 at 3:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

admireed (anonymous) says...

Meth...."won't ever do anything"? Can you back that up? Not one thing? Come on. Maybe the "powers" did not offer as much citizen tax money as you would , but nothing?

Edward McKernan

August 2, 2010 at 3:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

giggles (anonymous) says...

What can Lebo offer that Emporia can't admireed? Honestly, the only way Emporia could lose that to Lebo is by stupidity. They had the opportunity to hold on to it and they blew it. I think the RDA has too much personal involvement in this whole business process, and I don't think tax money should be spent by people with too much personal and private interests. Also, confidentiality should NEVER be allowed with public money. If there is a transaction or proposition to be made it should be everyone's business.

I do know from several people that they(Fanestil's) physically looked at Lebo and that it sure has been busy around there...

August 2, 2010 at 4:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mslater (Matt Slater) says...

"Man, Emporia, take care of the little stuff if you want big stuff to happen."

Create, you absolutely hit the nail on the head! One of my favorite sayings has always been "if you take care of the little details, the big ones take care of themselves."

August 2, 2010 at 4:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

brightliner (anonymous) says...

IF Fanestil's go to Lebo, Emporia loses little if anything. Most workers will still live and shop here. Fanestil's has said publically they will reduce jobs from current levels making it difficult to use "job creation funds" to help them in Emporia. Hide and watch they may stay right where they are when the dust settles.
S. Corbin's ad in the Gazette suggesting a "NO" vote on the sales tax extention is ludicrus.
Think about this: If the sales tax is not extended it will take a 6 or 7 mill increase in Emporia property taxes to offset the loss of sales tax revenue + Emporia will still need and want to participate in ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT so another 6 or 7 mills will be needed to fund that effort. A 14 mill increase is about a 30% increase in property taxes. Think that won't happen? Vote "NO" and then watch.
Emporia tax payers will suffer if the sales tax is not extended. No debate.

August 2, 2010 at 5:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sail (anonymous) says...

bright, im afraid that we have hit the point where people are saying that the city acts like they will never run out of other peoples money.Well im saying no mo tax.

August 2, 2010 at 5:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

brightliner (anonymous) says...

Great plan except a "NO" vote will create "MO TAXES"........sorry

August 2, 2010 at 6:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

admireed (anonymous) says...

Steve, I liked the format of the ad too. Pretty clear and short.

Public must be 100% behind the Rec Center.There has been not one negative peep regarding their mandate to increase the levy on their own

Edward McKernan

August 2, 2010 at 6:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

brightliner

Do you really believe that if the City Commissioners can not or will not decrease spending and the sales tax extension is approved ... the Commissioners won' t increase the property tax mill levy anyway ?

The City Manager, Matt Zimmerman and the City Commissioners have all said that they do not want to raise property tax mill levies, but even if the sales tax extension is approved, they may still have to raise property taxes.

And even if the sales tax extension is approved, there is no guarantee that the sales tax revenues collected will not be short of expectations, again. Remember the sales tax revenues collected were 26% less than expected for June. Who is to say they won' t be less for the rest of the this year and for the next 4 years .

It would seem that you don' t care how much or how many taxes you have to pay you are satisified with going broke for the sake of the spend thrifts of the RDA and the leaders of the City of Emporia. And you don' t care if the City makes you pay both taxes an axtended sales tax as well the real possibility of higher property taxes also. Exactly when do you believe enough is going to be enough ??

There is no better sure fire way to drive shoppers out of an area than with ridiculous amounts of sales taxes and if the shoppers go, so to, will the businesses and then what ?

August 2, 2010 at 6:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

oops (anonymous) says...

Vote no, then raise heck when they try to raise taxes. Enough is enough. People wonder why the city can't even recruit people who want to live here. Who wants to come to a county for any job that pays mediocre wages, but has taxes like people make $100k a year living in a $400k house.

August 2, 2010 at 6:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sail (anonymous) says...

THE TAX WILL NOT GO AWAY IF WE VOTE NO. WE WILL HAVE MULTIPLE VOTES ON THIS TAX IN THE FUTURE. GIVE THE CITY A SHOT OVER THE BOW,VOTE NO NOW.

August 2, 2010 at 7:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

create,

And what amazes me is how the RDA, Emporians for growth and the City Commission touts, brags how they recently brought 100 jobs to Emporia via Hills. Well if they manage to lose Fanestils and 80 jobs, that will mean they only had a net gain of 20 jobs.

Boy now, that is really something to " crow " about. Spend who knows how much to get 100 jobs, possibly millions in consessions, incentives and tax breaks, then lose 80 jobs for a net gain of 20 jobs. And does anyone know how many more people Hills plans on hiring in the next 4 years and how many of these people will be local Emporia people or if they even know if Hills will still be a viable job source and tax base in Emporia, 4 years from now or even one year from now ?

Whats the use of paying to bring jobs to Emporia, if the bulk of the hirees are not going to be local people, who live, shop and pay taxes in Emporia ?

There has been too much speculation, speculating, proposing, proposals, wishing, dreaming, wanting , etc.. And not enouogh thinking, fact finding and commonsense used by the RDA, Emporians for Growth and the City Commission.

No, I believe that everyone is jumping the gun on this tax extension thing, by about 3 and 1/2 years at least. Why not wait and see what happens to the economy, jobs and the deepest recession in U.S. history and then if things improve drastically, bring the idea of a 1/2 cent sales tax extension before the voters again.

August 2, 2010 at 7:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

Oh, and Obama says he is ending the war in Iraq. So what is he going to do with the thousands of troops in Iraq?

Bring them home and if so will he then deploy a sufficent number of them to the Southwestern border of the U.S. to secure that border to enforce the illegal immigration laws ?

Or will he deploy the majority of the force to Afghanistan to fight that war ?

And if he brings troops home what impact will that have on the nations economy and recession ?

Just something to think about.

August 2, 2010 at 7:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sail (anonymous) says...

METHUS,remember the peace div. after the fall of the Berlin Wall.. Promised but not delivered.Politicians spend evermore money, very seldom less.

August 2, 2010 at 8:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

fromaglance (anonymous) says...

Save Emporia from being the next midwestern ghost town. Vote yes!

August 2, 2010 at 9:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

REWBA (anonymous) says...

A ghost town might attract tourists! Better build a visitor center and advertise it in the "O"

August 2, 2010 at 11:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

brightliner,
1st off my adertisment was paid for by myself, no taxpayer funds were used to "educate" the public. The 400 + dollars could have been spent on a donation to the fairboard or other worthwhile project, but I felt it neccessary to get the opposing view out there. And why such a huge push for the tax. Those full page ads and radio are expensive. It will be interesting to see the donors on that, (after the election)

2nd. If our elected officials sidestep the outcome of this vote we vote them out.
If this extension is approved, so be it.
If the extension is voted down and the city raises the mill levy to offset it, they need to be held accountable. You must own millions in real estate to be so worried about your mill-levy so much.

We have only had 1 month of revenue since the state raised its sales tax, and already Peggy Mast has stated the budget is still in need.

People NEED to stop buying the "either or" argument on taxes.

a side to Ed,
Don't like the increase in the rec center, but we old farts need somewhere to play pool and such, now don't we?
And wasn't that change made too allow both the rec. commission and the school board to levy and raise their own levies and not affect the others?

August 3, 2010 at 7:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

I did want to say that IF Fanestil leaves it is NOT the fault of the RDA or the city.

I'm sure they offered what they could.

If the announcement of a no-deal was delayed, however, I find it troubling to say the least.

August 3, 2010 at 7:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

Also, if Fanestil leaves the city/county

There will be less property taxes collected on a building and land valued by the county at $505,500.00.

August 3, 2010 at 8:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mslater (Matt Slater) says...

Dead on accurate, as usual Steve.

If this gets voted down, and property taxes increase, then we get rid of whoever the hell raised property taxes, and vote in someone who will lower them, and can also balance the budget.

Simple as that.

Matt

August 3, 2010 at 4:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mslater (Matt Slater) says...

Another question:

If this gets voted in, will it be brought up in every election until now and then, because you damn well know if its defeated it will be.

August 3, 2010 at 4:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

irishemporia (anonymous) says...

Can someone tell me (perhaps again?) exactly what Fanestil wants and what RDA, et.al., has offered. Perhaps the two are just too far apart to reach an agreement. I'm all for keeping the company here, if the price is right, but not if the price is too high.

If Hills brings in 100 jobs and Fanestil takes away 80. We still gain 20 jobs. Had the RDA not brought Hills, and Fanestil left, we be down 80. Seems to me +20 is better than -80. No?

August 3, 2010 at 4:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

Steve,

Did you notice the page of the City Budget titled Revenue Detail and Expenditure Summary and did you notice the Mill levy statistics for 2009 to 2015 ? This statistic shows that the mill levy increased or will increase in 4 of the 7 years listed. The property tax mill levy increased in 2010, approx. 1.335 mils. 2011's mill levy is projected to increase by 0.945 mils, 2012's increase is projected to increase by 4.542 mills and then the projected to increase in 2015 by 2.249 mils. The only decrease will be in 2013 and 2014 and the decreases in those years will not be anywhere close to what the increases amounted to ... by 2015 the mill levy is projected to be 20.027 mills.
The mill levy for 2010 is 14.669, projected 2011 will be 15.614, 2012 projected mill levy 20.138 . So even considering the 2 years the mill levy actually decreases slightly the mill levy will see an average total mill levy increase of 2.998 mills of property tax increase.

Now where is the property tax relief that the RDA, Emporians for Growth, and the City Commission bragged about, that was due to the sales tax extension ?
So much for the much bragged about property tax relief that is and has been argued will happen.

I am telling you and the rest of the citizens of Emporia, you can' t believe a thing that these people say, because " they speak with forked tongue " .

August 3, 2010 at 5:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

irish, you are right + 20 jobs is better than - 80 jobs but not better than + 180, but you also have to consider the possible loss in tax revenues.

August 3, 2010 at 5:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

irishemporia (anonymous) says...

What would be lost/gained if we gave Fanestil everything it wanted?

August 3, 2010 at 7:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )