Control borders
Bill Hartman, Emporia
Thursday, July 22, 2010
Mr. Jim Sells is correct about the huge need to control our borders. But his solution has failed ever since the beginning of our nation. And attempting to send all illegal immigrants home will continue to fail.
How about a little history that explains why I say his solution will fail. It failed when America attempted to remove indentured servants, because the slaves then flooded in, then the Irish and Poles and Italians to the point that a derogatory name came about for so many of them. That name was “WOPs.” Did you know that “WOPs” stands for “without papers” because so many were Illegal? As these Europeans became wealthier; we still needed cheap labor so the Chinese were brought in until the U.S. passed the “Anti Chinese Act” to attempt to stop them from coming. This went on until we now see millions of folks from the south of the border coming in.
Why. The reason is they get hired. The get a JOB. How do they get a job. They are hired ILLEGALLY by Americans. There are two reasons for this to have such a very, very long history in this country. These reasons are called PROFIT AND CHEAP LABOR.
There is such a very, very easy way to solve this problem. PUT THOSE HIRING ILLEGALS IN JAIL. Here again you will not see this simple solution come about for the same reason that we have had this same problem every since being a colony due to the need for PROFIT AND CHEAP LABOR.
Bill Hartman
Emporia
arminius (anonymous) says...
You are absolutely correct Bill, on two fronts...
1) We have an ugly, racist history of immigration legislation... going back to the Chinese exclusion act in the 1880s, and the even more drastic Immigration act of 1917 (which was passed over Woodrow Wilson's veto.)
2) People are coming here because of economic incentive. Remove the economic incentive and you remove the problem.
Thanks for the wisdom!
July 22, 2010 at 3:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Right on the money Bill.
Isn't this what the new Arizona law has in it? It does , I"ve already read it.
Of course when we start paying $12 for a head of lettuce, $20 for a pint of strawberries people will say "What the hay", which of course will be about $30 a bale.
Good letter!
July 22, 2010 at 4:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
Now that was a well written piece Bill. Thanks!
July 22, 2010 at 4:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Don't go off the deep end, Steve..... there were people way back when that claimed if we freed the slaves cotton would become unaffordable, too.
From the Center for Immigration Studies: (this is an old study, back in the 90's)
The removal of illegal workers from the seasonal agricultural workforce would increase the summer-fall supermarket prices of fresh fruits and vegetables by about 6 percent in the short run and 3 percent in the intermediate term. During the winter-spring seasons, prices would rise more than 3 percent in the short term and less then 2 percent in the intermediate term. Imports would increase about 1 percent.......
If no illegal or undocumented workers could in the future be employed in the U.S. labor market (and they were not replaced with guestworkers), the wage rate for services provided by FVH will rise. We assume complete elimination of illegal and undocumented workers. In this case, we estimate that the FVH industry will see about a thirty percent rise in the average wage rate for SAS labor in the short run (1 to 2 years) and about a 15 percent increase in the medium/intermediate (or 5 to 7 years) term.......
Our estimate is that a 15 percent rise in the real wage (30 percent in the short term) translates into a rise of about 6 percent in the real cost of fresh fruits and vegetables (12 percent in the short term),
Full article here: How Much Is that Tomato in the Window? Retail Produce Prices Without Illegal Farmworkers
http://www.cis.org/ProducePrices-With...
Gee - a 30% increase in labor wages..... unemployed Americans might even start to consider looking at those "jobs American's don't want"....... like back in the day when the Beef was the best-paying place in town..... and I could still afford to buy meat back then, too.....
July 22, 2010 at 4:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
Right on track, open_eyes!!!! Consider not only the "job" market but everything else we GIVE the illegals that COST us!!!!
July 22, 2010 at 5:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
gardenman (anonymous) says...
Must be the reason Mr. Hartman wed an Iranian
woman, PROFIT AND CHEAP LABOR.
July 22, 2010 at 5:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
The United States remains a leading lettuce exporter, second behind Spain. U.S. export of all types of lettuce was 704.9 million pounds in 2009.
Exports of US chicken, rose 18% in 2008 from 2007 to a record quantity of 3.2 million metric tons. Additionally, the value of chicken meat hit a record of US$3.5 billion. This is an increase of 28%, according to the USA Poultry & Egg Export Council.
U.S. pork and beef exports continued their strong 2010 performance in May, collectively growing 25 percent in value versus 2009 and 8 percent over April of 2010, according to statistics released by USDA and compiled by the U.S. Meat Export Federation
July 22, 2010 at 5:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
There sure are a lot of misguided people who love the " High Cost " of " Cheap, Illegal Immigrant labor " . HA, HA, HA, HA, HO, HO, HO, HO, that is really " rich and funny ". In case you haven' t noticed, the cost of almost everything is close to 300 % higher now than it was just 30 years ago when so called " Cheap, Illegal Immigrant labor " was almost 300 % less than it is now. So, please explain to me how more so called " Cheap, Illegal Immigrant Labor and those who are not " Cheap Illegal Immigrant Labor, just Illegal Immigrants " are making the price of anything " Cheaper/Less " ?
Especially, when the cost to legal taxpaying citizens keeps increasing, because of the taxpayer subsidized " free progams " , education, health care, food stamps, housing, etc., etc., Illegal Immigrants, laborers and non laborers continue to be given, steal and defraud, continues to increase in number .
" Cheap Illegal Immigrant Labor " , " Cheap for whom " ?
July 22, 2010 at 6:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Like I said, methusla, back when "The Beef" was the best-paying place in town....... I still bought meat on a regular basis..... and could afford it. Gee, if only IBP had imported a lot MORE illegal people and dropped the wage down to, say, 75 cents/hour, so that "no Americans would want the jobs"..... gosh, I'd have been having a T-Bone steak every night for no more than a nickel.
Yeah right.
July 22, 2010 at 7:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
gardenman,
That was disrespectful and tasteless. In trying to insult Bill, you hurled very insulting words toward a very caring, very well cared for, very beloved and very well educated woman. You owe her a HUGE apology.
July 22, 2010 at 10:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
methusla and open_eyes, Yes, I remember when Iowa Beef purchased the plant and my husband started, as many other AMERICANS on construction and then the kill floor, he earning $2.10 an hr and a large jar of Miracle Whip was $.69 which today cost $2.99. Problem today, we have at least 30% more illegals which we not only "hire" but also give them benifits that many "Americans" don't have. We allow them to have their "anchor" babies which many times the taxpayer pays for their birth. Yes Meth, the cost was less but so was the number of illegals. I can remember when my husband would come home stating how they loaded up busses of illegals and took them back, do we do that today??????????? Go Az.!!!!!!!
July 22, 2010 at 10:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
sandman, I remember my dad telling me about that too. A bus would come take them away on a Friday and Beef hired a flight to ensure they were back to work Monday. Oh the good ole days...when it took 20 minutes hard work to buy a jar of mayonnaise. Today someone making 7.50 hr would have to work about 24 minutes to pay for that same jar. Well, the jar is a bit smaller these days.
July 22, 2010 at 11:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
I still have a problem with telling a huge number of people that it is ok that they break the law because it is really someone else's fault. What other laws will they get to break and we tell them "it's ok we'll find someone else to blame for your illegal activity."?
July 23, 2010 at 12:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
seriouslyfolks, so agree. Believe this goes with the fact so many "higher-ups" feel they are justified to "break the law". Just look at our current Head of State, he hired many who felt they didn't need to pay THEIR taxes, etc.
July 23, 2010 at 8:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
There also a lot of people presently debating/discussing the " Illegal Immigrant/Control the border " issue, who believe arresting/punishing those who " Illegally Employ/Import " illegal immigrants/illegal immigrant labor will actually solve the problem . That to, in itelf is also somewhat funny. Take, Walmart for instance, the largest, supposedly " Discount Retailer " in the world ... Walmart was recently fined 11 million dollars for illegally hiring and employing illegal immigrant labor . How many of you believe that fining a company that makes billions of dollars every year is going to deter them from hiring illegal immigrant laborers ?
Drying up the flow or stopping the source of the problem, such as making it impossible for illegal immigrants to enter the U.S., either by more stronger, better border enforcement or absolutely sealing the border, by what ever means necessary and a conserted effort to round up every illegal immigrant, their illegal family members, which includes offspring, born to an illegal immigrant and deporting them and not allowing them back into the U.S. until they do so lawfully and properly. We all know that now, it does no good to just deport an illegal immigrant. As it is like throwing them across the border onto a trampoline, as they just bounce back and sometives in larger numbers than before.
Also, as long as the buying of the Federal Government by special interest groups by the use of lobbying/lobbyists, none of the U.S.' s problems have any chance of being soleved or abolished .
When you have tough problems that need to be solved, you must get tough and use tough measures to solve tough problems .
Again let me make it perfectly clear. I am not against nor hate immigrants. I dislike those immigrants, who believe they have the right to break the immigration laws of the U.S., enter the U.S. illegally and defraud the U.S. government and legal U.S. taxpayers any time they feel like it and have no intention of even trying to learn the Countrys predominant language " English " and care nothing about the U.S. and its legal citizens . And if it is going to take every State, every legal citizen of the States, to help the " Corrupt, Jelly spined, Leaders of the U.S. ", to enforce the immigration laws, laws, then that is what needs to be done .
continued
July 23, 2010 at 9:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
continued
Above all I have no liking or respect for a people who will not even try to make their own country a better place for them or their families. But, instead will purposely try to enter some other country " illegaly ", unnoticed, like a " parasite " and suck that countries life blood out of that country and then when the illegal immigrant parasite has ruined and weakened that country and its people, it, the illegal immigrant parasite will then leave the country to either wither and die or try and heal itself to the point the illegal immigrant parasite or its offspring will again start the " Invasive " blood sucking process all over again.
And people, whether you want to believe it or not, this is exactly what is happening in the U.S. and will continue to happen unless we, the legal citizens of the U.S. demand tough action against a very real threat .
July 23, 2010 at 9:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
skraps (anonymous) says...
Please stop saying that undocumented workers receive welfare and other government help. That is nonsense. A person who receives assistance must be a citizen of the United States.
There is no way that corporate America will stop hiring illegals. No matter how high the penalty. It is impossible to send back 12 million undocumented people. And even if sending them back to their homeland succeeds, by that time the "anchor babies" as you call them will have begun their own families who ARE citizens and WILL qualify for assistance. What we need is immigration reform. It may have been illegal for these people to have come here, but we must find an avenue to make them legal, productive members of our society. Guess what, there are many LEGAL immigrants working alongside the illegals. They will still work the jobs "nobody wants" at a lower wage! Why would you not want more people paying taxes? The sooner that happens, the easier it will be to bear the brunt of the 2nd generation who probably WILL utilize the system that their parents were unable (not unwilling) to pay into.
July 23, 2010 at 9:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rabblerouser (anonymous) says...
Three Presidents did it.
I FOUND THIS TO BE VERY INTERESTING.
I WONDER WHY IT'S NEVER BROUGHT UP.
What did Hoover, Truman, and Eisenhower have in common?
Here is something that should be of great interest for you to pass around.
I didn't know of this until it was pointed out to me.
Back during The Great Depression, President Herbert Hoover ordered the
deportation of ALL illegal aliens in order to make jobs available to American
citizens that desperately needed work..
Harry Truman deported over two million Illegal's after WWII to create jobs for returning veterans'.
And then again in 1954, President Dwight Eisenhower deported 13 million
Mexican Nationals! The program was called
'Operation Wetback'. It was
done so WWII and Korean Veterans would have a better chance at jobs.
It took 2 Years, but they deported them!
Now...if they could deport the illegal's back then - they could sure do it today.
lf you have doubts about the veracity of this information, enter Operation
Wetback into your favorite search engine and confirm it for yourself..
Reminder:
Don't forget to pay your taxes...
12 million Illegal Aliens are depending on you!
And meanwhile 9.9% of (legal) Americans are out of work.
The following is one of my favorite thoughts on the issue of immigration. It's from President Theodore Roosevelt in a letter to the American Defense Society in 1919, 10 years after his presidency.
--Lou Dobbs
"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...
There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
--Theodore Roosevelt, 1919
July 23, 2010 at 10:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
shoehorn (anonymous) says...
here is a link to the results of research regarding who, and what percent, are accepting assistance.
http://www.cis.org/articles/2003/back...
July 23, 2010 at 10:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mustangsue (anonymous) says...
gardenman (anonymous) says...
Must be the reason Mr. Hartman wed an Iranian
woman, PROFIT AND CHEAP LABOR.
Seriously gardenman??? You are beyond being racist! I'm Jewish...gonna put a swastika on my house?
July 23, 2010 at 10:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
inaweoftheblindness (anonymous) says...
Skraps...I agree 100%. First of all, I work for a government agency, and yes it's true. You CAN NOT get any type of food stamps, money assistance, medical card or any other hand out if you do not have legal status. I myself think that an Immigration Reform is is dire need right now. Let's take the ones that are here already and make them productive members of our society. Then they too, would pay taxes like the rest of us. There is a way of thinning out the good from the bad. Those illegals that have been in the United States for 3 or more years and do not have any criminal back ground since they have been here...give them the chance to become productive tax paying citizens and this will end a ton of the problems with the immigration issue. Those who are not eligible for legal status because of criminal background checks, then yes, deport them. And no, a reform in no way would be a free hand out, because I know for a fact that to get legal status the cost is between $1000.00 - 5000.00 which is to be paid before immigration will even consider giving them a social security number and visa. I have filed many applications for illegals through Immigration and that is one of the requirements, that this money be paid in full. So....why not an Immigration reform, it definitely can't hurt anything, it actually would be for the better as far as the United States is concerned.
Now for those of you who will respond with the fact that illegals do get something for free, yes, they go to our hospitals and sometimes the bill is not met. But to be honest, I don't really see what their getting for free besides that. If they work, 80% of those illegals are using fake documents and they are taxed the same as you and me on each paycheck. These illegals never file taxes so all that money coming out of their checks covers any "Free" stuff that you mention. Illegals pay for the schooling the same as us, they pay for enrollment and books and everything else same as we do. Some say that the illegals come here and don't invest back into our country...bull crap. They buy their food, pay their utilities, clothing, shoes, schooling, cars, gas, everything that we also buy on a daily basis, they too have the same expenses. So yes they do invest back into it. A very large majority of illegals that are working here would indeed fix their legal status and file taxes, but a lot of you do not even realize just how hard it is to get legal status if you are of Hispanic nationality. I know many of the illegals would be glad to be able to file taxes and get back a refund like all the rest of us, but because Immigration has made it so difficult to obtain legal status, a lot of them cannot become the legal members of our society that we would all like them to be...Legal. But until Immigration applies a simpler method for legal status, this is going to be an ongoing problem for years to come,
July 23, 2010 at 11:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rabblerouser (anonymous) says...
The price for produce and commodities has always been and will always be controlled by Supply and Demand. We do not know how much these large produce growers are raking in now on the backs of these folks.
They will find a way to cut costs and keep the products affordable and still pay decent wages, as other businesses have to do. They had to do this before the cheap labor was so readily available and we managed just fine when we had to cut our own grass and High School students worked every summer putting up hay and working for farmers. Costs will not be a big problem, especially when people can grow their own cheaper.
July 23, 2010 at 11:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Here is a piece of news, some may be interested in,
Nine States Join Legal Brief Backing Arizona’s Immigration Law
Thursday, July 15, 2010
By David Runk, Associated Press
source, http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/6...
July 23, 2010 at 11:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rabblerouser (anonymous) says...
My question to our politicians would be: Why is Kansas not on this list?
July 23, 2010 at 11:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
I am inaweoftheblindness as to how many people, even those employed by the government, are " blind " to the fact that it is very easy for an illegal immigrant or anyone to obtain " Fake, Counterfeit " I.D's, documents, steal an identity, etc., and fool even the Government and even those who work in government positions and even those who may be the illegal immigrants, legal co-worker.
No, this is a " War " against an " Illegal and injurious Invasion " and the sooner it is realized as a " War and an injurious Invasion " , the sooner something can and needs to be done about it. And I don' t mean automatic citizenship or " Amnesty ". I mean " Arrests + Heavy Fines + Plus Deportation + Securing the borders by any and all means necessary " .
Sugar and Honey will only serve to attract more " Illegal Immigrants " and end up costing the legal U.S. citizens, more jobs and higher costs in taxpayer funded, " free public handouts " .
July 23, 2010 at 11:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mustangsue (anonymous) says...
So anyone who looks the least bit Hispanic can be detained in jail until they can prove they're American or here legally? Even if they're 5th generation American? Sounds to me like we're going backwards in thinking, not forward.
July 23, 2010 at 11:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
I am also inaweoftheblindness as to how ignorant some people are to the fact that Illegal Immigrants send billions of dollars back to their countries and how much of this money that is sent back to their countries is used to pay for more Illegal Immigrants to sneak into the U.S. .
Here is some info on how much money leaves the U.S. via Legal and Illegal Immigrants.
It is estimated that worldwide remittances amount to more than $126 billion. Remittances have become a considerable force in the economy of many countries. Among the countries that receive the most in remittances are Mexico, the Philippines and India. Last year Mexico received more than $17 billion in remittances. The amount of remittances in Mexico exceeds the amount of foreign direct investment in the country. This is not surprising given that a significant portion of Hispanics in the United States are of Mexican descent. Other Latin American countries like El Salvador are popular destinations for remittances. In 2005 approximately $2.5 billion was sent to El Salvador. The amount represented more than 13% of El Salvador’s GDP, or gross domestic product. It is estimated that Latin Americans residing in the United States send $30 billion dollars to their native countries.
source, http://www.usimmigrationsupport.org/i...
More interesting facts,
Activists use of the term "immigrant rights" does not apply to illegal immigrants who have no legal rights in the country, only human rights.
It's also important to realise that because of massive document and I.D. fraud, when an undocumented person is caught they're actually some of the most documented people in the world, it's just all fraudulent.
source, http://immigrationcounters.com/dataso...
Yes, I too, am also, "inaweoftheblindness " of some of the people.
Here is a quote I came across.
"This country simply can't absorb them all," said Neil Clark, Seattle-based field-office director for U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, pointing out the U.S. already admits about 1 million legal immigrants a year.
"People have got to demand changes in their home countries if they want to make things better," he said. "Coming to the U.S. is not the solution to Mexico's problems."
I believe this quote speaks to the truth of the matter .
July 23, 2010 at 12:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
So you can't get government assistance if you are here illegally or if you can't "prove" you are here legally? Many of these folks can prove they are legal even when they are not. It is called identity fraud. Many of them are not concerned about breaking this law just as they were not concerned about breaking immigration laws. I am still concerned as to what extent the ends justify the means.
"There is a way of thinning out the good from the bad. Those illegals that have been in the United States for 3 or more years and do not have any criminal back ground since they have been here" Sounds real keen! What if their current identity has a clean record but their previous one or two identities has a criminal record?
"These illegals never file taxes" Not true in the least. Many file taxes and claim a large number of children so they get back more than what was paid in. All this done under a false identity.
Many can try to reason the problems away that are caused by illegal immigration but the fact is there are problems. You can always tell when the proponents of illegal immigration get desperate to defend it when they start calling respecters of the law racists. I'm not racist, I just want the laws to be respected because I understand they are there to protect my family and society. If we tell a large group of people that the law doesn't apply to them, what does that say? What does that do to the laws that protect my family and yours? If we are to have groups of people in this country that the laws don't apply to, I guess I will have to deal with it, but I won't like it. I will still try to defend this country and it's laws as I am sure many of you will continue to try to destroy them. May the best person win.
July 23, 2010 at 12:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
mustangsue
Only if they have been caught in the act of or are reasonabley suspected of breaking a law, in the first place. Just as anyone who breaks the law or is reasonably suspected of breaking the law can be detained and asked for valid, proper I.D. or documentation, whether they/you are Black, White, Brown, Yellow, Red, Green, Blue, Purple or what ever color . Why would anyone who is a legal citizen of the U.S. be afraid to be stopped by a law enforcement official and asked for an I.D. or proper papers of Identification and be checked out . Only those who are in the U.S. illegally in the first place, have anything to fear . Would you be afraid to be stoped by a law enforcement official if you were caught, oh say speeding, making a wrong turn, failing to stop at a stop sign, Jay walking, or anything that may be unlawful ? If you wouldn' t be afraid, why not ?
And what makes you think this sort of policy would be any different that the immigration policy of any other Country ?
July 23, 2010 at 12:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Great post seriously, I am in total agreement with you on this. But it would seem that some people just cannot see what is right there in front of them .
July 23, 2010 at 12:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
And some of the family the illegal immigrants claim on their fraudlent tax return, are still living in their home country and are not legal U.S. citizens themselves.
July 23, 2010 at 12:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mustangsue (anonymous) says...
I'm sure a lot of you have **gasp** white neighbors that abuse the welfare system. But I guess since they're here legally....it's alright.
July 23, 2010 at 1:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Oh, come on mustangsue, you know better than that ! I was wondering when someone would get around to bringing race into this.
As I and many others have said before, Illegal is Illegal and it does not make any difference what race, color, etc. you are if you are doing or have done something " Illegal " you deserve to be punished for it, no matter whether you are a legal citizen or illegal immigrant.
July 23, 2010 at 1:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
No. What would make you think that? I am against law breaking and fraud no matter who is doing it. You are the one bringing race into this. Let me ask you this are you for your white neighbors breaking the law the same as you are for illegal immigrants breaking the law? Tell me again who is racist, me or you? I believe that justice should be blind and the laws should apply to all people equally and you are defending people's illegal behavior and it appears that you are doing it because of their race because you bring it up often. In your self righteous race to be the most not racist you have succeeded in being racist.
July 23, 2010 at 1:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
My last post was aimed at mustangsue.
July 23, 2010 at 1:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eucharistandcannabis (anonymous) says...
I couldn't have said it better, Bill. Bravo!
July 23, 2010 at 1:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bloomsbury (SC DIXON) says...
I have tried to flag gardenman insipid remark, but I see it is still posted.
July 23, 2010 at 2:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mustangsue (anonymous) says...
You do realize that if this law passes. if a police officer pulls someone over and the officer just thinks they look "illegal" whatever that is, they can hold them until they prove otherwise.
July 23, 2010 at 2:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mustangsue (anonymous) says...
Methusla wrote-Why would anyone who is a legal citizen of the U.S. be afraid to be stopped by a law enforcement official and asked for an I.D. or proper papers of Identification and be checked out . Only those who are in the U.S. illegally in the first place, have anything to fear . Are you SERIOUS?!?! OK let's say you have a warrant, or just robbed a bank...wait, according to you, if you're in the country legally, you have nothing to fear? Why is that again?
July 23, 2010 at 3:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
shoehorn (anonymous) says...
Am I getting that right? You are saying that you are against the police doing a license check for outstanding warrants?
July 23, 2010 at 3:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mustangsue (anonymous) says...
nooo, I'm saying Methusla wrote that as long as you are in this country legally, you should not fear the police pulling you over for a warrant or for any reason.....
July 23, 2010 at 3:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
solong (anonymous) says...
When I see the illegals standing up for the rights of the Chinese, Africans, Russians, and all other races who want to immigrate here also I will reassess my view that some of them are racists. All immigrants should do it the same way my ancestors did, a common border does not entitle anyone to different treatment. All states should enact laws just like Arizona's, jail employers of illegals, and the issue will subside. Enact legislation that anchor babies of illegals are not entitled to citizenship rights just like any other civilized country and that problem ends also. Then change our laws so that those people that are not criminals and can be an asset to our country be allowed to immigrate into our country through proper channels just like most other countries in this world. Being a nation of immigrants I welcome those who come in legally, illegals are law breakers and should be treated as such.
July 23, 2010 at 3:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
shoehorn (anonymous) says...
Isn't that kinda splitting hairs? I understand his comment to be relevant to the issue being discussed, not a broad statement to include breaking other laws.
July 23, 2010 at 3:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mustangsue (anonymous) says...
I just did a cut and paste, didn't add anything. This law is being fought against because of racial profiling. You're not the right color, the police can pull you over and question and detain you because of THE COLOR OF YOUR SKIN...don't you get it people? It IS about race. You're not the right color, you get pulled over, you go to jail til you can prove yourself legal. Silly me, I thought it was innocent UNTIL proven guilty.Have you people ever been outside of the state of KS? The rest of the world is not as white as it is here. And yes, I am white, too.
July 23, 2010 at 3:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
shoehorn (anonymous) says...
USD 253 is 45.2% Hispanic. How white is that? No, the police cannot pull you over and question you because of THE COLOR OF YOUR SKIN. That would be profiling, and the law says that cannot be done, because that would be against the law.
July 23, 2010 at 3:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
mustangsue,
First of all Arizona' s law does not mention anything about color of skin, PERIOD and it says that racial profiling by anyone will not be tolerated. Besides those illegal immigrants, who by the way broke a Federal Law, just by entering the U.S. illegally in the first place, again, no matter their skin color or race . There very first act, was to break the law .
Therefore if they are in the U.S. illegally to begin with, by breaking a Federal Law ... They damn sure have something to fear as they cross the border and enter the U.S. by Illegal, law breaking means, and again it matters not, what their skin color, nationality or race they are deemed " Lawbreakers and Criminals " from the get go by their own actions. Let alone any and all lawless actions they take part in while they are illegally living and working in the U.S..
And I am proud to say that as long as I have lived and worked in the U.S. as a born here, half native American, for going on 70 years, the only law I ever broke was having an expire license plate on my vehicle and I was stopped for that violation, while going to the Emporia Court house to get my new one and this being on the day after my old license plate had expired and that was back in 1971 and I was not afraid to be detained and my I.D. etc., checked out by the officer and would not be afraid to be pulled over and checked out today either . This is because I am a law abiding, Legal Citizen of the U.S., and it would not make any difference to me what color my skin or my nationality is, was or would be.
You sound as if you believe that laws should not apply to illegal immigrants and that illegal immigrants are entitled to the same rights as legal U.S. citizens.
Did you not read the following from one of my earlier comments.
More interesting facts,
Activists use of the term "immigrant rights" does not apply to illegal immigrants who have no legal rights in the country, only human rights.
source, http://immigrationcounters.com/dataso...
If you did and don' t understand it. I suggest you reread it a little slower and try and comprehend it and better yet visit the web site and learn .
July 23, 2010 at 3:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
mustangsue,
You are deliberately twisting methusla's words to go against his meaning and you know it. It's rather transparent.
Why is it that this particular form of lawbreaking garners so much distortion in defense? Multiple fake ID's is yet another crime that costs our country a lot of money, By being harder on Illegal immigration, we would also be reducing that crime. Throwing criminal citizens up in front of criminal aliens to protect the aliens from prosecution is ridiculous. It makes no sense to try to purge our own citizens from crime first and then purge it from the streaming number of people who are criminals by virtue of even being here. That's like opening my front door to all the unruly neighbor kids in my house, allowing them to do all the things I don't want my kids doing, then trying to teach and discipline my children in the middle of the mayhem that all the other kids in the house are getting away with doing, and then telling my kids that I will not enforce rules for any of the neighbor kids until my own are perfectly behaved. No! I shut the door and teach my children first, then let the neighbors' kids come in a few at a time and explain to them what behavior is expected in my house and that they will have to leave if they can't obey.
Of course, the way parenting is misunderstood in this country may help explain why immigration enforcement is also.
July 23, 2010 at 3:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Oh, and mustangsue, you did cut and paste, but you only cut and pasted part of my comment and only the part you could argue in your favor. Next time please cut and paste the whole comment and just the part that suit your racist argument. Sheesh, some people.
July 23, 2010 at 3:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mustangsue (anonymous) says...
Me racist? Against whom? But tell me methusla, HAVE you ever been outside of KS? Sorry bout the cut and paste, tho, you are right....But who am I being racist against? I don't understand...thanks...:D
July 23, 2010 at 4:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mustangsue (anonymous) says...
shoehorn, If you think that racial profiling isn't done and police corruption isnt happening...just because it's illegal, you're; living in a dream world.Have you ever heard of the Los Angeles Police Department? Remember when they got exposed a few years back? Do you honestly think that was an isolated incident?
July 23, 2010 at 4:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
shoehorn (anonymous) says...
It seems to me that mustangsue has the desire to hold illegals to a lesser standard of law than natural born citizens. Thus elevating them to a higher status, thus lowering legal citizens to a lower status. It seems that in her mind hispanics are the only illegals that are subject to the arizona law, so I would say she is being racist against all nonhispanics.
July 23, 2010 at 4:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
shoehorn (anonymous) says...
Where is your crusade against throwdowns, planting evidence, blackboot tactics, etc. Too many causes, not enough time?
July 23, 2010 at 4:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
shoehorn (anonymous) says...
To mustangsue. Could you explain about Los Angeles?
July 23, 2010 at 4:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
shoehorn (anonymous) says...
make that "jackboot"
July 23, 2010 at 4:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mustangsue (anonymous) says...
Corruption, taking bribes, police brutality, drugs, to name a few. They actually had to RELEASE prisoners because of (can you believe this?) PLANTED EVIDENCE BY THE POLICE!!! But wait, that would be illegal, and The United States of America doesn't have corrupt police officers that would do anything corrupt or illegal like that, would they?
July 23, 2010 at 4:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
shoehorn (anonymous) says...
And all the victims were hispanic?
July 23, 2010 at 4:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
shoehorn (anonymous) says...
What evidence would you plant to make someone appear to be here illegally?
July 23, 2010 at 4:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Yes, mustangsue, I have been outside Kansas . I have even been outside the United States and that doesn' t mean Mexico or Canada .
What is your insinuation about being outside Kansas ? Are you inferring that anyone who has not been outside their own State is racist or doesn' t have any knowledge about what is going on ? For your information you don' t have to even leave you own hometown or living room to know what is going on in the world. What is going on in the U.S. and the world is all around you and is brought into your living room by one means or another. All you have to do is have the ability to see and seperate what is fact from what is fiction and to make sure your sources of the reports are at least somewhat unbiased, trustworthy and credible.
July 23, 2010 at 4:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
I never drive anywhere without my driver's license and proof of insurance.
July 23, 2010 at 4:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
shoehorn (anonymous) says...
If you take a cruise, they suggest having several forms of identification, including a copy of your birth certificate. I don't know why, maybe I don't look like I'm from the United States of America?
July 23, 2010 at 5 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mustangsue (anonymous) says...
or from Europe, or South Africa...
OK people, my last comment because at this point, we just have to agree to disagree. Why do you think the President of The United States is trying to get this law from going into effect? Why do you think that people across America are protesting against it? And no, it's not only Hispanics and illegals protesting. Night everyone, have a great weekend. Believe it or not, I learned a lot and enjoyed the back and forth!
July 23, 2010 at 5:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
So, let me get this straight, mustangsue.
You are against any and all immigration laws and policies that say, you are required to enter the U.S. by only the means set forth by the immigration laws, procedures and requirements of the U.S. Government . And that all those who enter the the U.S. " Illegally " have done nothing wrong, broken any laws, policies and requirements of the U.S. Government and that all illegal immigrants, by breaking a law, should be given special consideration, even though the first thing they did, by entering the U.S. illegally, was break the Federal Law of the United States . Is that what you are saying ?
And are you also saying that anyone who believes that the U.S. immigration laws should be upheld and enforced to the fullest measure, even if it is a State, individual, law enforcement, the INS, ICE, border patrol, etc., who are doing so, are doing something illegal and are guilty of racial profiling and racist and will resort to anything to arrest an illegal immigrant, is that what you are saying ?
If so, you have very little faith in your fellow " Legal, U.S. citizen and law enforcement " to do what is right and uphold the laws of the land . Ive got news for you. Not every law enforcement officer/official is a bad law enforcement officer or bad law enforcement official and Arizona' s immigration law is not a bad law, for it almost identically mirrors the National Immigration Law. I am inclined to believe you have read neither the National Immigration Law nor Arizonas' Immigration law .
July 23, 2010 at 5:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
shoehorn (anonymous) says...
mustangsue, thought provoking questions. As for the president, I'm not sure what his reasons are. The primary reason that I can think of is that Hispanics typically vote democrat. But this issue seems to cross political lines. Some Democrats are in support of border control to protect union jobs. There have been conflicting positions between unions on the issue. As to the people that you say are protesting the law, most polls put the number around 70% that are in favor of it. That has to include a cross section of all political affiliations. I do know that the primary driver is not race. It is drugs, violence, and there are factions from Hesbollah that are infiltrating the United States through Mexico. Those are the people that want to destroy and kill us.
I really honestly feel that there are more protections of civil rights written into this law than you would find in a d.u.i. checkpoint.
July 23, 2010 at 5:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Well, I guess mustangsue, has retired for the day. Any way mustangsue, the President is against Arizona's law, because if it is effective ... and from what I am seeing and understanding, it has already been effective, for Arizona anyway and it hasn' t even been made law yet , is the fact that if it works, it will make the President and Congress, look like a bunch of greedy, corrupt, spineless do nothing " Boobs " ! Which I believe that most of us knew they were in the first place. And just think, if the majority or rest of the States adopt a similar law as Arizona' s immigration law and it starts to work the same way. In effect taking away any safe have for illegal immigrants to live and work. Just think of the mass exodus of Illegal immigrants from the U.S., never to return, only by, through legal and lawful means or procedure's . What a relief of the burden on taxpayer funded, free public handouts .
C' mon, you Kansas Legislators, get busy on a similar immigration law and get it passed and made law quickly, unless you want Kansas and Kansas' s taxpayers flooded and over burdened with illegal immigrants, looking for free State and taxpayer funded handouts.
July 23, 2010 at 5:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
shoehorn (anonymous) says...
If the states along our northern border implemented the very same law, would there be protests about profiling Canadians?
July 23, 2010 at 5:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
mustangsue says:
"Corruption, taking bribes, police brutality, drugs, to name a few. They actually had to RELEASE prisoners because of (can you believe this?) PLANTED EVIDENCE BY THE POLICE!!! But wait, that would be illegal, and The United States of America doesn't have corrupt police officers that would do anything corrupt or illegal like that, would they? "
And that exempts the illegal aliens how?
You want us to live in anarchy until all the citizens are exemplary, THEN tell the illegal aliens what the rules are?
To me, that whole list means that we need to shut the door, line out our own, then allow others to come in a few at a time with the rules and penalties explained at the door and enforced inside. I guess maybe I should have used a nightclub analogy.
July 23, 2010 at 5:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
For what it's worth, this guy is running for our Secretary of State:
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/may/...
"Law professor Kris Kobach is a popular defender of the state's strict new immigration law, which he helped write."
July 23, 2010 at 5:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
I would urge everyone who believes that something needs to be done about illegal immigration . Support Arizona and their illegal immigration law, by any means possible, whether it be by monetary donation, by moral support or what ever way you can. Even if you just email the governor of Arizona and offer moral support. I would also suggest that you email your National Representative and Senator , as well as the President and tell them that they need to either support the States in their attempt to help solve the illegal immigration problem or be more forceful in enforcing the present Federal Immigration laws of the U.S. and show us " WE THE PEOPLE " the " Legal Citizens of the U.S. " , who can fire them from their jobs, by not voting for them, are more important to them than, the illegal aliens, the special interest groups, and they are willing to do the right thing for the " Legal Citizen taxpayers and voters of the U.S. !
I also suggest we/all Kansans email our State Representatives and Senators and urge then to pass and make law , House Bill 2202 as quickly as possible, to protect the Legal Citizens of Kansas and their jobs, from the flood of illegal immigrants that will undoubtedly be comming from or have already arrived from Arizona.
For those who may interest in reading the context of House Bill 2202 you may do so at the following web page.
http://www.kslegislature.org/bills/20...
July 23, 2010 at 5:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
I just find it ironic to no end that the Federal government is suing Arizona (which passed laws further enforcing and supplementing federal laws already on the books) on the grounds that they are trying to supersede federal law......
but we have sanctuary cities that pass laws in direct defiance of federal law and openly state thus, and they are ignored.
So apparently the government really DOESN'T care if states pass laws in defiance or superseding their authority. Unless they have political reasons to do so and gain from it, apparently.
I don't think mustangsue is aware of the fact that the courts decided some years ago that federal agents have the right to stop anyone, anytime, anywhere, for any or no reason whatsoever, to inquire as to the status of their residency, to see if they are in this country legally or not.
But Arizona law says their officers cannot do that. They can only ask if the person is already stopped for an infraction.
And as for all the planted evidence conspiracy stories.... yeah.... I'm sure our cops have nothing better to do than plant evidence on someone they suspect of being here illegally. Knowing that the entire country is going to be watching their every step with a magnifying glass is enough right there for them to make darn sure they have a good case/reason to stop/inquire before they shoot themselves in the foot.
July 23, 2010 at 6:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
mustangsue
First of all illegal is illeagal.
Makes no difference whether you jaywalk or murder someone.
When all you bleeding heart liberal, I want to give everybody a lap dance, free lunch, free insurance, free houses, free cars, free food, free everything, whether they deserve it or not, (90% don't), can't do what you want to do because you're broke because your taxes have ate you up, you might figure it out.
As for why Barry wants to do what you're in favor of?
Two or three reasons (food for thought)
#1
Votes for his next term.
#2
He has an aunt (from Kenya) that milked the system for 10 years (illegaly) and somehow (even after going to court) is still here and getting away with it. (Sounds like a vested interest to me)
#3
I'm not sure that Barry himself is legal.
(Several lawsuits pending)
As for fining the people who hire them.
Another law nobody pays attention to.
They should be fined, heavily. BUT if we followed imigration law there wouldn't be near as big a problem because the illegals wouldn't be here, no matter where the hell they came from.
July 23, 2010 at 10:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sail (anonymous) says...
Nice post Mr Bill.Its good to expose the real issues to why we have and will have this problem.
July 24, 2010 at 8:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
People say that the real problem is the people who hire the illegals... NO! That is an inaccurate statement! Why? Because it is only part of the problem. I do agree that illegal hiring practices are part of the problem and should be dealt with quickly and harshly but it is only part of the problem. Why do some of you want to over emphasize the part of the problem and ignore the other part? In my opinion this is dangerous. Allow me to explain. Say there are 100 companies that are hiring 1000 Canadians that are here illegally per company. You have 100 companies breaking the law and 100,000 Canadians breaking the law. You want to punish the 100 and to get the 100,000 to stop breaking the law you want to reward them with citizenship or at least change the laws enough so that what they are doing is legal. So we have 100,000 Canadians that we have sent the message to that if you break the law it's not really your fault and we'll punish those who caused you to break the law and we'll change the law to accommodate you. I think it's dangerous to send this type of message to a large group of people. In this nation we need people who are respecters of the law if we want to maintain our relatively peaceful society. We ticket, fine, arrest, and imprison our own citizens when they break the law do we not? I have another question to those who would prefer we only hold the companies accountable for their law breaking and not the illegal immigrants, why is this? Why do you show partiality? You always say that we who want all the laws enforced are racist and showing partiality when in fact it is you who do so. Why is this?
Here is a quote from an old law book I have. I think it's relevant.
"You shall do no injustice in judging a case; you shall not be partial to the poor or show a preference for the mighty, but in righteousness and according to the merits of the case judge "
July 24, 2010 at 9:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
I own a rental home that sits adjacent to a large field. One day my renters complained that there was field mice inside the house. I employed many resources in an attempt to eradicate the field mice from that home. I sealed the foundation and all the penetrations under the home. I baited mice traps, used glue traps and poison bait but the renters continued to complain about the rodent infestation. I complained to the owner of the field where the field mice were coming from and he just laughed. He told me that if your renters would clean their house, the mice wouldn't have any reason to enter the house in the first place. The mice problem continued and neighboring home owners started complaining to me about the mice problem. They wanted me to do something about my renters who attract these rodents to the neighborhood. My renters insisted that the problem was the field and the mice that comes from that field. They demanded that I do more to prevent the mice from getting in in the first place. I had done all that I could possibly do to try to keep the mice from entering but mice still entered. My renters insisted that I wasn't doing enough so I told them to find somewhere else to live. After they renters moved I was able to see the true problem. It was the trash piles in the closets and cabinets. It took me a week to clean that house and a month to eradicate the mice living there. The problem was a million mice but the solution was eliminating the one person that attracted the mice.
July 24, 2010 at 10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
shoehorn (anonymous) says...
Here is a quote from an old law book I have. I think it's relevant.
"You shall do no injustice in judging a case; you shall not be partial to the poor or show a preference for the mighty, but in righteousness and according to the merits of the case judge
Leviticus 19:15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
July 24, 2010 at 10:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
And the moral of this mice
story is ?
Oh, I think I know what the moral is supposed to be. If the U.S. gets rid of the mouse/illegal immigrant, bait ( the people who hire them ), the mice/illegal immigrants will not come to the U.S. .
Well that story moral, will float as long as a bottomless boat .
First of all there were never 12 to 20 million legal or illegal jobs in the U.S., to begin with. So why did all those millions keep entering the U.S. illegally anyway ?
1. they knew they could
2. lack of immigration law enforcement
3. lack of a secure border
4. Very few are caught and punished
5. Severity of punishment is light
6. All the free taxpayer funded handouts
7. etc., etc. etc.
July 24, 2010 at 10:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Wake up, people. This country is in trouble and allowing all the illegal immigrants who are already here or are still entering, to do so, will not solve the problem. To allow those illegal immigrants to stay in the U.S. and continue to let illegal immigrants to enter the U.S., will only continue to make a bad problem, WORSE !
July 24, 2010 at 10:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
hartman (anonymous) says...
I just read all the feedback to my post. Thank you for a good discussion.
I want to also thank those out there that know my wife and made such great comments.
She is indeed from Iran. She is a Christian Assyrian.
She is a Registered Nurse.
She knows five languages.
She makes a great wage.
She gave me great kids.
The Assyrians have prospered all over the world.
She was invited to come to the US legally with a green card due to being a registered nures
She upon getting here again took all the tests to become a registered nurse here. How smart is that!
She loves America and is now a citizen
Garderman you are indeed an idiot and I must not let your ignorance stand.
July 24, 2010 at 10:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
You sound like my old renters. I haven't had a mice problem since they moved back to Emporia. The neighborhood is a lot quieter now too.
July 24, 2010 at 10:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
Sorry, that was for methusla.
July 24, 2010 at 10:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
skraps (anonymous) says...
It seems to me that this board has gone way into left field. I suppose all of you have your own stories of certain people who have abused the system or have fake documentation. You are right. Illegal is illegal. But you all have to admit that we have a flawed system to begin with. Whether you believe that illegal immigrants are leaches or not, why would you want to orchestrate a huge eradication of illegal immigrants via deportation?? You are in essence telling these people, "Well you made it here, you enjoyed the American way of life for free and now you must go back home and forget all taxes you may owe. And by the way, we will fund your trip home as well."
What is the point of that?? Give them a fine, give them attainable citizenship which forces them to assimilate our culture and pledge allegiance to our country, and force them to become productive taxpaying Americans. The issue will not disappear with deportation and stricter borders. This is a neverending cycle and the only thing it will promote is sneakier employers and illegals. Trust me when I say that these people will find a way to come back. Even if a blanket policy is enforced that children of non-citizens are not in fact U.S. citizens, the ones who have already been born will most likely remain American Citizens. Listen to what you are all saying. You want to spend more money to get rid of them, more money to keep them out... Make THEM pay to stay here. What is the point of sending them home?
No, this country cannot absorb them all. Not in it's current state. Not without new revenues created by forcing them to pay taxes. Trust me, you might send a lot of them home, but it will turn into a witch-hunt that ends up costing taxpayers much more than it is worth. Be smart about the situation. I think some of the comments being made here are due to frustration and stubbornness. Instead of utilizing hatefulness to find a solution, turn it into a positive approach that utilizes tact and compromise and we will all win.
July 24, 2010 at 11:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
skraps,
There are those who are, have made it to being a legal citizen of the U.S. and still refuse to fully assimilate to the language, laws of their chosen country.
Besides if those who entered illegally by breaking a Countrys laws in the first place, why would they want to have any respect for the Countrys language, laws, etc.. And how disrespectful and a flat out kick in the face would it be to those who took the time to enter the U.S. and become a U.S. citizen " Legally " by lawful means and procedures, by suddenly making/allowing all those who are in the U.S. illegally, instant U.S. citizens regardless of whether they can or want to speak the chosen language of the U.S. as is required by U.S. immigration law/requirements to even be considered for entry into or U.S. citizenship, as well as other requirements .
If that is what you and other illegal immigrant bleeding hears want to do, then I, for one, insist that each and every illegal immigrant that is/would be made an instant U.S. citizen by you bleeding hearts ... be required to pay into a " LEGAL TAXPAYER " trust account the sum of $ 100,000 each, to pay back any and all " LEGAL " taxpaying citizens of the U.S. all of the money the illegal immigrants " Defrauded " from the " Legal "U.S. taxpayers by way of receiving " Legal " taxpayer funded public assistance while being in the U.S. illegally .
But of course, I doubt that such a pay back by Illegal Immigrants would ever happen. As they would be heading for the borders, out of the U.S. as fast as they could and be headed for the U.S. international boarders as fast as they could .
July 24, 2010 at 11:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
You catch more mice by building a better mouse trap or just flat stopping them at the source of their entry.
Therefore you stop illegal immigration by better, more aggressive enforcement of the existing immigration laws and by stopping/trapping the illegal immigrants at the borders, before they become a problem, not after millions of them are already here and getting rid of the ones that are already here or making it impossible or undesireable for them to be here, want to be here or even try to come here " Illegally " .
As far as allowing a certain number of immigrants to enter the U.S. " Legally ", I have not problem with that, as long as the number allowed to " Legally " enter the us is adjusted to the economic climate and job availability in the U.S. and allowing " Immigrants " into the U.S. would not cause an undue burden on the " Legal " taxpaying citizens of the U.S. . In other words, do not just set a number of immigrants to allow to enter the U.S. and say that is it. The number must be an adjustable number dictated by economic and other conditions prevalent in the U.S. at any given time.
To just " swing wide the countrys boarder doors " to immigrants with out some sort of control and aggressive enforcement of laws
is not only " STUPID ", but is " IRRESPONSIBLE " and " DANGEROUS and INJURIOUS " as well .
And the current and past Presidents, as well as current and past Congress have been and are " STUPID, IRRESPONSIBLE, DANGEROUS, and INJURIOUS " to this country and its people.
July 24, 2010 at 12:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
hartman, SUPER response!!!! She is NOT here illegally and that is what we are speaking concerning, being "Illegal" and asking "what this country can do for me" NOT what can I do for MY country"!
We are all "foreigners" in some manner, going back generations, but have become
Americans, speaking english, flying the American flag, BEING an American!!!! Don't believe that is so very much to expect, being a US citizen and coming into this country in the proper manner, which our forefathers did.
July 24, 2010 at 12:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
Folks, what was that famous battle in Texas and many Texans died? Why was it fought????? Gee, we're not just fighting for Texas but our entire NATION!!!
Don't believe any of us are against immigration for it has been done for years, properly. I look at when we have had foreign exchange kids for a school year, they must PROVE financial aid, health insurance, ability to speak our language and desire to improve upon that ability. This is NOT concerning being foreign but coming in ILLEGAL from Mexico and closing that ability DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
July 24, 2010 at 12:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
skraps (anonymous) says...
methusla- "flat out kick in the face" "you bleeding hearts" " swing wide the countrys boarder doors " " STUPID, IRRESPONSIBLE, DANGEROUS, and INJURIOUS "
Dramatic much? Obviously, we are going to have to "agree to disagree" as mustangsue said before, since there are just some people who are so set in their own minds, that they will not budge, nor make valid enough points to argue. You ,sir, are complaining, not searching for a workable solution to the problem.
You are a pessimistic extremist. Using your type of logic, I would have to conclude that you have no respect for American cultures since you are desecrating the English language by misspelling every other word.
Not saying that I believe that, just saying that you have some learning to do in the area of social skills and debate.
July 24, 2010 at 12:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
skraps (anonymous) says...
More people means more business. More business means more jobs. More jobs means more taxpayers, money, etc... We are missing an opportunity for economic growth. How is it so impossible to understand that?
July 24, 2010 at 12:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Here's how some other court cases have ruled on state vs federal immigration enforcement:
Gonzales v. City of Peoria, 722 F.2d 468. 1983: United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit
"Although the regulation of immigration is unquestionably an exclusive federal power, it is clear that this power does not preempt every state activity affecting aliens. De Canas, 424 U.S. at 354-55, 96 S.Ct. at 935-36. The plaintiffs' reference to exclusive federal authority over immigration matters thus does not resolve this question. Instead, we must define precisely the challenged state enforcement activity to determine if "the nature of the regulated subject matter permits no other conclusion.
"The City's claim of authority is limited. It asserts only the power to enforce the criminal provisions of the federal immigration laws. There is nothing inherent in that specific enforcement activity that conflicts with federal regulatory interests. Federal and local enforcement have identical purposes--the prevention of the misdemeanor or felony of illegal entry. The subject matter of the regulation thus does not require us to find that state enforcement is preempted."
United States v. Salinas-Calderon, 728 F2nd 1298. 1984: United States Court of Appeals, Tenth Circuit
Footnote 3 in the decision: "A state trooper has general investigatory authority to inquire into possible immigration violations. Moreover, the trooper's question about the green card was reasonable under the circumstances, and thus lawful."
United States v. Vasquez- Alvarez, 176 F.3rd 1294. 1999: United States Court of Appeals, Tenth Circuit
"In particular, the United States observes this court has long held that state and local law enforcement officers are empowered to arrest for violations of federal law, as long as such arrest is authorized by state law. See Davida v. United States, 422 F.2d 528, 530 (10th Cir.1970); cf. United States v. Janik, 723 F.2d 537, 548 (7th Cir.1983) ("inferring, as a matter of state law] that Illinois officers have implicit authority to make federal arrests"); United States v. Swarovski, 557 F.2d 40, 43-49 (2d Cir.1977) (noting generally that there is no overarching federal impediment to arrests by state officers for violations of federal law). In fact, this court has held that state law-enforcement officers have the general authority to investigate and make arrests for violations of federal immigration laws."
July 24, 2010 at 12:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
United States v. Santana-Garcia, 264 F.3rd 1188. 2001: United States Court of Appeals, Tenth Circuit
"We noted just recently that state law enforcement officers within the Tenth Circuit "have the general authority to investigate and make arrests for violations of federal immigration laws," and that federal law as currently written does nothing "to displace . . . state or local authority to arrest individuals violating federal immigration laws." United States v. Vasquez-Alvarez, 176 F.3d 1294, 1296, 1299 n.4, 1300 (10th Cir. 1999). Rather, we observed that federal law "evinces a clear invitation from Congress for state and local agencies to participate in the process of enforcing federal immigration laws." Id. at 1300."
United States v. Rodriguez-Arreola, 270 F.3rd 611. 2001: United States Court of Appeals, Eighth Circuit
"During the routine stop of a vehicle for speeding, a South Dakota highway patrol officer discovered that Manuel Rodriguez-Arreola, a passenger in the vehicle, was an illegal alien. Rodriguez was detained and later charged under 8 U.S.C. § 1326(a) (Supp. IV 1998) with being an illegal alien present in the United States after deportation.2 Rodriguez filed a motion to suppress all evidence obtained during the traffic stop, arguing that his status as an illegal alien was discovered through questioning that violated his Fourth Amendment rights. The District Court granted Rodriguez's motion to suppress and the government appeals. We reverse....
"The government argues that Trooper Koltz did not violate the Fourth Amendment rights of Rodriguez. The government contends that the questions posed to Molina concerning his alienage were within the scope of the stop because they were based on a reasonable suspicion by Trooper Koltz.10 The government further contends that even if Trooper Koltz's questions to Molina constituted an unconstitutional search and seizure, the questions only violated Molina's Fourth Amendment rights--a violation that Rodriguez does not have standing to assert. After Molina stated that the passenger in his vehicle did not have a green card, the government argues that Trooper Koltz had reasonable suspicion to ask Rodriguez about his citizenship status. Finally, the government argues that even if Trooper Koltz's questions constituted a Fourth Amendment violation, Rodriguez's identity is not suppressible as a matter of law."
Rodriguez does not have Fourth Amendment rights to assert because he was an illegal alien.
More at http://www.devvy.com/new_site/federal...
But again...... the funny thing is..... cities come right out and pass resolutions openly stating defiance of federal law..... and the feds do nothing. Playing politics?
July 24, 2010 at 12:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
skraps (anonymous) says...
As for the Arizona law, I am completely for any person being questioned about their legal status as long as it is enforced on all people. For instance, if I am riding in a car with a friend who happens to be Caucasian, and he gets pulled over for speeding, I am okay with them asking me for documentation as long as they ask him for it first. If I were to be asked for legal documentation because I am Hispanic, that would be racial profiling. As long as they ask for it of all people, more power to the State of Arizona.
July 24, 2010 at 1:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
and skraps, in what case would the officer have reasonable suspicion? If your Caucasian friend is unable to produce a valid driver's license? (Which all people are required to carry with them when driving)? If your friend could produce no documents, licenses, credit cards, no proof of ID? If that's the case, would it matter what their ethnic identity was? What if the cops stopped 20 people for speeding, Ten Causcasian, ten Hispanic. If 9 of the 10 Caucasians produced a valid drivers license and other forms of ID, and they asked the 1 who could not to prove their status in this country, but 3 of the Hispanics had no ID and were asked to prove their status, would you complain that they were profiling since they asked 3 times as many Hispanics for ID as Caucasians? Just a hypothetical question. If it were reversed, and 3 Caucasians didn't have ID compared to only 1 Hispanic out of the above scenaria, would you complain the cops were giving Hispanics a pass?
And why would they be asking you for your ID at all? Isn't your friend the one that is being stopped for speeding? Why would they ask you for yours even after they asked the driver first?
July 24, 2010 at 1:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
shoehorn (anonymous) says...
"Obviously, we are going to have to "agree to disagree" as mustangsue said before, since there are just some people who are so set in their own minds, that they will not budge, nor make valid enough points to argue. You ,sir, are complaining, not searching for a workable solution to the problem."
This sounds like obama. It becomes bipartisan just as soon as you agree with me.
July 24, 2010 at 2:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
skraps (anonymous) says...
That is a very interesting question that you ask since this scenario actually happened to my husband and me in Emporia. I was stopped by a Sherriff's car for having a headlight out. I was driving, and my boyfriend (now husband) was in the passenger's seat. He happens to be African-American. I was asked for my driver's license which I provided and before the officer even ran my information, he asked my husband for his identification. My husband did not have any identification with him except for his Bank of America debit card which happened to have his picture on it. The officer then asked him to step out of the vehicle and proceded to question my him as to why he didn't have I.D. with him. He finally received confirmation that we both had valid driver's licenses and no warrants, wrote me a warning and sent us on our way. Now I ask you, what possible reason could he have had to ask my husband for his information? Besides that, why would he ask him to step out of the vehicle? I can only assume reasons as to why. Maybe it was because I'm Hispanic, my husband is African-American, and my son who happens to look more like his Caucasian father was in his carseat in the back? Maybe they were looking for certain people and we fit the description? I don't know. I hate to holler racism or racial profiling, but the truth of the matter is that it happens. Had I known then what I know now, I would have definitely posed those questions to the officer that pulled us over that day.
So that's my point, because those situations do happen. To me, the RESULTS of asking people for identification are irrelevant to my point, so long as everyone is asked for documentation equally. I am not afraid to be asked for documentation. But I would feel disrespected if it was done so based purely on the fact that I am Hispanic. Everyone should be hassled equally. LOL.
Besides, imagine how many people with outstanding warrants might be caught. I think it's worth it, not only to identify illegal immigrants, but anyone doing ANYTHING illegal.
July 24, 2010 at 2:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
skraps (anonymous) says...
shoehorn- I don't expect anyone to concede my points. I only expect people to consider valid thoughts and counter with more valid arguments. That's the point of a debate, to work towards resolution. In order to reach a resolution, one side must agree with the other or both must compromise. Until then, we continue to have a problem with no solution.
July 24, 2010 at 2:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
skraps,
I commend you on not only supporting the Arizona law, but also on not hitting the panic button. You seem to be able to think things through and weigh the benefits against the drawbacks. I agree with you about "Everyone should be hassled equally." and "how many people with outstanding warrants might be caught."
How easy was your pull-over scenario when everyone peacefully (even if irritated) cooperated and how complicated would it have gotten if either of you had decided to fight on a principle? I'm sure the officer was just going to run both ID's at the same time which is why he didn't take yours then return for your boyfriend's. It is hard to say how many warrants/APB's he was looking for that your boyfriend, car or the combo resembled. I'm glad it all worked out for you guys. We once had an officer friend follow us and run our tags before realizing that he knew us. He then followed us to our destination to give us a heads-up that he might not be the only one. You see, there was a warrant out on a guy who has similar hair and skin tone as my husband and he was known to frequently use his mom's car which was identical to ours. With this warrant on his mind, our friend thought he saw the subject of the warrant instead of a family he knew. Frankly, I was glad to know he was watching for criminals to drive by instead of watching for his friends to drive by.
We absolutely have criminals of all colors, shapes and sizes in our "house" already. We need to secure the door to prevent more incoming problems (think terrorists, drugs, child rapists) and deal with the troublemakers we already have. Yes, we dropped the ball in securing our door, but there should be a penalty for anyone who came in without permission. Anyone who did so and has also proceeded to harm others doesn't need the house rules explained. They need to be kicked out. Any whose only offense was to come in without permission needs the rules explained, a fitting penalty, and a promise given to the house not to break any more of the rules. At the same time there are many who were born to the house who also need to be penalized in varying degrees and made to understand the rules. We need fairness. Period.
July 24, 2010 at 3:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
That's an interesting story, skraps, and thanks for sharing. I don't know why your husband was asked for identification. But I'd be willing to bet if there was a story with national exposure like the current one, and everyone watching the cops every move for any hint of racial profiling whatsoever, they would have been extremely careful not to question your husband unless they had a reason that would stand up in court.
Years ago I was cruising around Emporia with 3 of my friends (I was driving) - in my dark-colored car. I wasn't speeding or anything, and cop lights started flashing behind us and pulled me over. The officer walked up, shined the light in the car, and asked us to all show our hands, palm down. Which we did. He then explained that 4 Hispanic men had just nearly beaten a guy to death, using brass knuckles, and left him in the street nearly dead - knocked his teeth out and everything. The only description they had was 4 Hispanic men in a dark-colored car, so since we were 4 guys in a dark-colored car, we got stopped. He explained the brass knuckles would have left marks on our fingers. Even though they were specifically looking for Hispanics (which none of us were) - we got stopped anyway. I wasn't offended, nor were any of my friends. We understood the police were just doing their job. We fit the description in enough ways to warrant being stopped and questioned.
July 24, 2010 at 3:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
Some of us have been saying all along that we should do "all of the above". Secure the borders, deport the illegal criminals, punish our fellow citizens who encourage illegal migration and reform our system of legal immigration so that it is easier to come here legally than to do it in violation of our law.
However, for some the talk of punishing the people who hire illegals is out of the question. For others, talk of making it easy to immigrate legally is a game stopper. Still for others, talk of deporting illegal aliens is the non starter. Almost everyone agrees that securing the border is cool beans but does everyone know just how big our border is?
Nothing less than a full reform will work and until we can agree to all the aspects of the problem, there will be no solution. Only arguments while the problem gets bigger.
Arizona has done what it did and they will be forced to deal with whatever consequences that comes with their law. I wish them well but I am pessimistic about the spirit behind their law and I doubt that Arizona will rid itself of crime as a result.
July 24, 2010 at 3:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Well, skraps, I guess I should apologize, especially to you for " MISPEIEEIOUL " a word or two, as I am very certain that you, being the perfect person, who never " MISSPELLS " a word, not one single word, ever and whom apparently is also an expert " debater " . So excuuuuse me for living and not having your aparantly " PERFECT " spelling and social skills.
Also more illegal immigrants, means more cost to " Legal citizen " taxpayers .
And since you claim to be Hispanic and your boyfriend claims is African American.
Are either of you proud to be " Americans " ? If so, then can you tell me why as supposedly proud Americans, someone as a proud and loyal American and who claims to love America, insists on referring to themselves as Mexican American, African American, Italian American, Cuban American, Philipin American, Iranian American, Israeli American, etc., etc., etc., and not just " American " ?
July 24, 2010 at 4:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
"Some of us have been saying all along that we should do "all of the above"."
From my posts it would seem that this is my stance, however(I'm going to get flamed for this by my "allies") I am not for deporting all those here now. I know that sounds odd coming from me and my affinity for the law but I just think it is unrealistic to do so. I do fear what message it sends to them if we don't deport them. We will essentially be letting them off scott free and that won't really instill in them a proper respect for the law which we will probably have to deal with later but to deport them would be a bigger problem imho.
"Nothing less than a full reform will work" True. It ain't happenin' though. This is something the people feel very strongly about as well as many of the state governments but the feds apparently feel as though it's a back burner issue. That upsets me, to put it mildly.
Arizona has a bigger problem than pretty much everybody else and they are trying to deal with it because the feds don't care. Being outraged at Arizona for the feds not doing their job is not smart. The feds tell Arizona they can't do it because it's the feds job but they refuse to do it so it doesn't get done. The feds won't do anything so the problem will persist and grow and we'll keep fighting about it and we'll keep paying the feds to not do there job. I wish I could not do my job and continue to get paid for it.
July 24, 2010 at 4:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
I remember when some states wanted to issue drivers licenses to undocumented people there was a great uproar too.
Some said that issuing a driver license to an undocumented person would be the same as documenting them.
Others said that not allowing the undocumented to obtain a driver license was a risk to the public's safety.
I don't know why the two sides couldn't compromise since they are both kind of right.
July 24, 2010 at 5:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
One time on Miami Vice Crocket and Tubs were arguing about the drivers license thing and it distracted them from busting drug dealers for a while but they got the bad guys off the street in the end so it was still a totally AWESOME episode.
July 24, 2010 at 5:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
skraps (anonymous) says...
methusla- In case you missed it, I said I was merely pointing out any little fault as do a lot of people with the slippery slope mentality that since someone has not "fully assimilated" that they are against doing so.
Also, in case you didn't know Hispanic is an ethnicity. American is my nationality. I am a Hispanic American. I don't agree with people coming to the United States and expecting the world to cater to them because they refuse to learn the language. My parents are both legal in the U.S. and were legal when I was born. Just because I am also proud of my ethnicity, don't attack my patriotism. So please don't assume that I don't associate with being American.
July 24, 2010 at 5:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
I don't have an ethnicity. I'm just a dude. I do like Miami Vice, so I guess I can be proud of that. Lieutenant Martin Castillo was a Hispanic man, Tubbs was an African American, Crockett was just a plain white guy, and they all worked together for a common goal. Why can't we. Man, I tell ya we could learn a lot from Miami Vice.
July 24, 2010 at 6:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mythoughts (anonymous) says...
Thank you, Hartman, for a well written commentary on illegal immigration, and also for standing up for your family. "gardenman" is no man, and probably has an unproductive garden too boot - such attacks are an anathema.
If you don't want apples, don't plant an apple tree. If you don't want to eat fish, don't try to live in a boat. If you don't want illegal immigrants, then don't patronize the businesses that hire them. And when you have a choice, "Buy American, made by Americans" even if it costs a little bit more.
July 24, 2010 at 6:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
Concerning speaking about law inforcement, Boy! I wouldn't want anyone I loved trying to enforce the law in todays "world". Each time they pull a vehicle over, they are putting their life on the line not knowing who is behind the wheel or in that car. Run a car tag? Could be stolen so what other recourse do they have? Ask for Identity of ALL, not only the driver. Concerning asking for identify, my husband served in Asia, when he returned (late 60"s) I picked him up at the airport (he was in military uniform ) then we went to a motel. When we checked in as "Mr.&Mrs" we were asked for our marriage certificate which I hadn't thought to bring. Then we were asked if anyone could verify we were married, my parents. They called my parents!!!! Were we upset, No. We laughed about that MANY times!!!
July 24, 2010 at 6:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
"If YOU don't want this, YOU shouldn't do that." blah blah blah If i don't want someone else to break the law it is up to them not to break the law. I shouldn't have to do a bunch of extra stuff so people don't break the law. They are the ones breaking the law not me. I shouldn't have to check and see if a business is hiring illegals before I patronize that business. It is the job of the government to make sure places aren't hiring illegally and that people aren't entering the country illegally. DO NOT TELL ME "IF YOU DON"T WANT THISS YADA YADA YADA....". You know what I do to keep companies from hiring illegals and to keep people from breaking immigration laws? I pay taxes that go to people who get paid a lot more than me to do it but they won't! That is what I do! I have not missed a payment for this service as it is taken out of my check before I ever see it so I know they got the money, now I'd like the service please.
July 24, 2010 at 6:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
shoehorn (anonymous) says...
If you don't want to be burlarized, don't have nice "stuff".
July 24, 2010 at 8:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
karma (anonymous) says...
A question that I still havent had answered is that, in this law a person can be inquired about their immigration status if there is "reasonable suspicion". Now I would like to know what "reasonable suspicion" would denote.
I am concerned because I do have family in Arizona, I have traveled there in the past and I would like to travel there again. I'm wondering if I would fall into the category of a reasonably suspicious alien unlawfully present the United States.
July 24, 2010 at 9:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
empgazfan (anonymous) says...
I do not agree with Bill. Illegal immigrants work for less. They bring competition where there is none, especially in the trades. I asked an American contractor who lived in a big house in Emporia to quote me a price for a tile floor in the kitchen. His reply began with the term "going rate". Do you know what that means? It means I charge what my competition charges and I will not undercut them. In other words, price fixing and zero competition. I gave the work to somebody who spoke Spanish who did a fine job for less than half the cost. I say import illegal immigrants and export our fat, lazy, overpaid contractors.
July 24, 2010 at 9:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Karma,
Which law do you plan on breaking that would give law enforcement reason to question you? My advice would be to not commit that crime even if you really want to. They won't even bother you if you aren't breaking some other law. Safe travels and have fun when you go!
empgazfan,
What do you do for a living? Do you expect to be paid the going rate for it? I bet we could find someone in this world that could come here and do it cheaper. Let's do just do that. Shall we?
July 24, 2010 at 9:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
karma - I suggested earlier. Not having a driver's license or any valid identification on one's self would be a starter. If in addition to that the person also was not able to speak English I would have my suspicions, too.
As for empgazfan..... I see you know absolutely nothing about outsourcing. Companies nowadays don't care if the job is done crappier or the quality suffers. As long as it's cheaper and there are enough US people willing to work around the clock to cover it up, so that they can tout to the public how wonderful it all works out. It's all about the $$, and nothing more. Some top exec will get a big windfall of $$ selling the company out. Then down the road the company will be in the tank because its a disaster but the fatcat exec will be long gone with his millions by then.
I'm with seriously. Let's bring in a bunch of people willing to work cheaper and drive the "going rate" for your job down below the poverty line. Then it can be one of those jobs Americans don't want, and you can go join the unemployment line.
Betcha the price for your product or service won't drop much, though. Just the fatcats at the top getting fatter.
July 24, 2010 at 9:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
O.K. skraps, your are a Hispanic American, I ask again why do you treat your " ethnicity " as something to be more proud of than being a proud " American ", without bringing up the point that you are a Hispanic first and an American second and flaunting that fact every chance you or anyone else who places their being an American second and less important that their " ethnicity " or " nationality " . And don' t try and tell me when someone asks you if your are an " American " , you do not tell them that you are " Hispanic American " or " Whatever American " as if you were ashamed to be known as an " American " and an " American " only .
continued
July 24, 2010 at 10:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
continued
I am as proud of my ethnic heritage as you or any one, but when some one askes if I am an " American " I answer with a resounding " Yes " and damned proud to be an " American ". I do not say I am a Canadian/Native American, " .. . I am an " American " no more, no less and as I said before, damned proud of it. I am also proud of my Canadian and Native American heritage, lineage, but I do not flaunt it or throw that fact into peoples faces as a lot of other so called " Americans " seem to prefer to do. Either you are an " American " only an " American " and that is the way it should be in The United States of " America " not the United States of African America, the United States of Hispanic America or the United States of Illegal Immigrant America or the United States of " What ever America " just the" United States of America ".
continued,
July 24, 2010 at 10:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
continued
The following United States Oath of Citizenship must be taken by all immigrants who wish to become naturalized citizens of the United States:
I hereby declare, on oath,
that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen;
that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic;
that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same;
that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by law;
that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law;
that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law;
and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.
In acknowledgement whereof I have hereunto affixed my signature.
Do you know what the following part of the oath means,
that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen;
This part of the oath would be a good thing for all " Americans " and those who purport to be or want to be " Americans " should and need to remember .
July 24, 2010 at 10:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
seriouslyfolks, Maybe karma will visit a public park or another public space. The Arizona law makes it illegal in Arizona for an illegal alien to be present in one of these public spaces. It is illegal trespassing for an illegal alien to be present in a public space in Arizona and it is illegal for a Arizona public official not to enforce this law. Therefore, If you are a Hispanic person sitting in a public park anywhere in the State of Arizona, a public servant has a reasonable suspicion that you may be violating a Arizona law so that give them the right to approach you and ask you to prove your citizenship. Look at the Arizona law for yourself. Then ask karma or any other person of Hispanic decent if they feel comfortable with a law like that.
With that said, I really don't care. I'm white! :-)
July 24, 2010 at 10:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
karma (anonymous) says...
Seriously- I don't plan on breaking any laws while I am in Arizona but it just happens that people are not only pulled over for breaking laws. I'm just saying, one of my car lights could go out or I may be riding with somebody who feels the need to go over the speed limit and we get pulled over, in any of these cases would it really be necessary for a police officer to question my legality in the U.S if I look or sound "reasonably suspicious"? We are not all perfect and I am guilty of not always carrying a proper ID with me. I feel that my imperfectness may cause me a great inconvenience if I travel to Arizona.
Open_Eyes- So if I have a strong accent would that also fall in to "reasonably suspicious"?
July 24, 2010 at 10:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
karma (anonymous) says...
REWBA- I have never said I am Hispanic, that was never in my comment. Why would you suggest I was? You also posted "With that said, I really don't care. I'm white! :-)" Now I dont know if you ever plan to travel to Arizona after this law takes effect but do you mean to say that yes this law would be profiling only Hispanic therefore you do not have to worry? Just wondering.
July 24, 2010 at 10:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
I am a Miami Vice fan American and I am proud of it. I will be organizing a parade for all other Miami Vice fan Americans on September 28th, the 26th anniversary of the airing of the first episode so if you are a Miami Vice fan American let me know if you want to march in solidarity with me to show the world our pride! I will not contact the city to close down Commercial street or anything because that sounds like a hassle so we will have to dodge traffic but that's just easier for me than calling the city and blah blah blah yada yada yada and all that but dodging the traffic will be kinda fun I think . It will be kinda our thing, Miami Vice fan American's unique mark on the parade tradition. I don't think that having a parade on a street that still has traffic going on it has been done before. Say what you will about Miami Vice fan Americans but don't deny the fact that we are an original pioneering bunch when it comes to parades and not wearing socks with semi-casual dress shoes. Miami Vice fan Americans may not be number one in the world but we certainly are better than Blossom fan Americans, yeah I said it. What? What you gonna do about it?
July 24, 2010 at 10:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
The whole "I gotta show my ID" arguement is and should be a mote point.
So you have to show it.
If you're legal what's the big deal?
If you're legal and bitch you must have a guilty conscience.
July 24, 2010 at 10:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
karma (anonymous) says...
Tbluma- That was never my argument. My first question was what makes a person "reasonably suspicious"?. :) You are soo cool using profanity and all. Somebody is a little upset :( lol I'm sure none of us has a clean conscience but as far as being legal my conscience is clean.
July 24, 2010 at 11:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
radioGaGa (anonymous) says...
sereuslyfolks!
You are outa yo mind!! I happen to be a Blossom fan American you miserable so and so!! Miami Vice fan Americans are totally stuck in the 80s where as the superior Blossom fan Americans are in the 90s which is ten better now isn't it? Huh? I hope you are not very good at dodging traffic when you have your little parade. Yeah, it going to be little. The reason being is that Miami Vice was a moody sometimes dark crime drama where as Blossom was a light hearted comedy about quirky teen girl. Everybody enjoys a nice light hearted sitcom, not everyone likes crime dramas! I can not believe your ignorance!! I have two words for you, Joey Lawrence and whoa! Enough said! Blossom fan Americans rule!!
July 24, 2010 at 11:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
Karma, as has been stated in various ways, if you are above board and someone does feel you are "reasonably suspicious" what the heck difference does it make??? You PROVE your innocence. I go into our local Court House, the alarm goes off because of a total knee (metal) they search me, does this make me upset, NO!!!!! Why? because I have nothing to hide!!!!! They are only doing their job to protect those inside. Just as guarding our borders should be an effort of protecting those residing inside those borders from ILLEGALS!!!!!! Our nation can no longer carry the burden of trying to supply AMERICANS a livelyhood but also those who want to "crossover" illegally WITHOUT the search. We are ALL "reasonably supicious" at some time until we PROVE our innocents.
Tbluma, right on!!!!
July 25, 2010 at 12:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
Karma, believe me, when I have the need to fly somewhere and must go threw a "body check", I would so much rather do that then not have them do so and blowup on the plane. In Rome,Italy, my sister was taken off for a COMPLETE body search, why? because she was the 4th person, they were checking every 4th person totally. Rome had been hit and it was a safe guard. Did she mind? No! we wanted to touch the good ole soil of the USA! Was that "reasonably suspicious"? to Rome, YES!!!!
July 25, 2010 at 12:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
karma, I'm a white dude. I didn't mean to stereotype type you dude! (or dudette...You didn't say which one you were.) Maybe your number 4 or something. lol
No, I will not be traveling to Arizona anytime soon. I used to go there at least once a month and spend about $2K on lodging, meals and incidentals working for my employer who had a 40 million per year operation there, but after being insulted by people from Arizona, I decided to convince my employer that Atlanta, GA was a better place to relocate to. I don't like being the 4th person. I believe the government is overreaching its boundaries when it comes to my rights. All you terrorized folks who want the government to protect you. Let me be the first to tell you...The government can't protect you! Stay close to home or be prepared to protect yourself. That is what we Americans call freedom. You have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness! That doesn't mean that you get everything you want. It only means that you must appreciate what you already have. Freedom! It's worth dieing for! I don't need papers because I'm a free man! I'm an American! Laws here protect the people against the government. NEVER CHANGE THAT!!! If your scared, get out of the home of the brave!
Anyway, to answer your question...yeah, I think the way Arizona wrote their law, being Hispanic in public there is "Reasonable Suspicion"
July 25, 2010 at 2:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Well the courts have already established the fact that federal agents have the right to ask anyone, anytime, anywhere, their immigration status, and they don't even have to be involved in any prior police action. They don't have to have any reason whatsoever other than they suspect you might be here illegally. So I guess everyone that doesn't like that should move to another country.
Good luck finding one that has even more lax immigration laws than the US.
July 25, 2010 at 9:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
karma - if you are unable to produce a drivers license or any other identification when you are stopped for a traffic violation, what would you think if you were an officer? If you were doing your job and someone had no ID whatsoever would you have reasonable suspicion? You've already broken 2 laws, one for the initial stop, and 2 for not having a license, you're going to complain if they check you for a 3rd violation?
REWBA, karma, I know a place in Arizona you can go and be completely safe from any of those bad old Arizona cops questioning your immigration status whatsoever. There's large chunks of the Buenos Aires National Wildlife Park that are closed and off-limits to Americans. Our wonderful government who's job it is to secure and defend our country has in effect ceded part of America. All they've done is put up signs. Thanks, Feds. Obama should take a lesson from Woodrow Wilson. In 1916, after criminal gangs fromMexico launched attacks against Americans on both sides of the border, President Woodrow Wilson sent 90,000 troops to the - and ended the violence.
July 25, 2010 at 9:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
The government can protect the " Legal " citizens of the U.S. if it had the desire, will or backbone to do so.
And what some on this forum are professing are " SADITION " or/and " ANARCHY " .
When has it become stylish or acceptable for Illegal Immigrants/Aliens and their sympathizers to be allowed to dictate or change the laws of the U.S. or any Country for that matter .
And I believe that there are those on this forum who have and continue to overreach their boundries when it comes to my rights, the rights of others, the rights of businesses/companies to locate and operate wherever they see fit and the boundries of the immigration laws of the U.S., as well as overreach the boundries of their self importance and ability.
If there are those on this forum who wish to read the Arizona law for themselves, however if you do, I suggest you take your time and read all of it, even the sub-sections, as all U.S. codes and sub codes that are referred to and it will take some time to read it all and comprehend all that is mentioned in the law .
go to the following web page,
http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r...
Also here is bit of news,
Federal judge won't block all of Arizona's immigration law
The fate of Arizona's tough new immigration law now sits in the hands of U.S. District Judge Susan Bolton.
Bolton held hearings Thursday on two of the highest-profile legal challenges to Senate Bill 1070, making attorneys on both sides of the aisle sweat as she challenged their legal arguments and forced them to focus on specific portions of the law.
She didn't issue a ruling, and it is unknown when she will. But the clock is ticking toward next Thursday, when the law goes into effect.
Bolton did make one thing clear: She has no intention of invalidating the entire law but is considering halting the enactment of a handful of its 14 sections.
source, http://www.azcentral.com/news/article...
July 25, 2010 at 9:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
open_eyes, A federal agent can walk up to anyone on the street and strike up a conversation just like any private citizen. That is called a "voluntary contact". Of course the person that the federal agent approaches has no obligation to cooperate and has the right to walk away without answering any of the federal agent's questions.
I suggest you look up "reasonable suspicion" and "probable cause". This is America and the fourth amendment hasn't been abolished...yet.
July 25, 2010 at 10:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
karma (anonymous) says...
Sandman- You have a point. I'm not a stubborn person and I love to listen to other persons points and I do try to understand. I would not mind being searched either if an alarm goes off while going through a metal detector. However, I do believe it is completely different from what this law is stating should happen. Officials are to use their own sense as to who they believe is reasonably suspicious. So, if we are ALL reasonably suspicious at some time why would Arizona feel the need to use the phrase in the first place?
I believe we all have valid points and discussing this with some people seems like talking to a brick wall. Seems like this issue gets a bit more personal than just trying to protect this nations economy to some folks. Oh and just to clarify with some posters who seem to believe that I would be an illegal alien. I am a United States Citizen. If you all havent read my first post, my concern was would I look "reasonably suspicious". Ive been told I look indian, asian and hispanic which is why I have asked. As REWBA confirmed for me there are many who believe this will lead to profiling and as much as we would all like to believe that this will not happen, it will.
July 25, 2010 at 10:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mustangsue (anonymous) says...
Okay people, as I've been saying all along, this law is all about racial profiling . Ask yourself this: Who do you think is going to get questioned about their citizenship more, an illegal Canadian or illegal Mexican? An illegal Irish or illegal Mexican? How would you like to have to prove your legal status every day? Every time you walk out your front door, you know that at LEAST once, you will be questioned because of the color of your skin.
July 25, 2010 at 10:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
Arizona's new immigration law does not JUST instruct police officers to check the legal status of people they think might be unauthorized residents. That responsibility also applies to any "agency of this state or a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state." This language seems to mean that all government employees, including public school teachers, dog catchers, trash collectors, and meter readers for municipal utility companies, are expected to be on the lookout for aliens who are unlawfully present in the United States. Should anyone with whom they cross paths in the course of their work arouse "reasonable suspicion," they are expected to make "a reasonable attempt...when practicable...to determine the immigration status of the person."
Sounds kind of scary to me. Of course I'm not the kind of person who would arouse any "reasonable suspicion" although I have had strangers approach me requesting an autograph. They seem to think I'm James Dean for some reason.
July 25, 2010 at 10:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
From The NY Times http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/14/wee...
"Immigration agents are not required to obtain warrants to detain suspects. The agents also have broad authority to question people about their immigration status and to search them and their homes. There are no Miranda rights that agents must read when making arrests. Detained immigrants have the right to a lawyer, but only one they can pay for."
So they have the authority to do more than just "walk up to someone and ask them questions"... and let them just walk away.
According to a question & answer primer on the Arizona law here: http://www.cleveland.com/nation/index...
"Currently, all law enforcement officers in the country, unless forbidden by management, are allowed to check on the immigration status of people they stop or arrest."
Hmmm.......... I can hear the screaming now. Gosh, they've been able to do this for years? My rights have been violated!!!
mustangsue - just out of curiosity, what do you think are the approx ethnic percentages of illegal immigrants along our southern border?
July 25, 2010 at 11:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mustangsue (anonymous) says...
Openeyes, I'm just thinking of people that are here legally that will no doubt get questioned day in, day out, all based on the color of their skin. If there were an illegal Mexican and illegal person that was white, who do you think the cops would question? And yes I DO know there is a huge illegal immigration problem in AZ, hence this law everyone is in disagreement about.
July 25, 2010 at 12:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
skraps (anonymous) says...
methusla- I am an American. But when you see me on the street, noting my obvious ethnic appearance and would make a reference to me as being American? Would you say "oh that American lady over there?" Doubtful. Say the police had some reason to be searching for me... (Although that has never been the case.) Would they put out an APB and say they were looking for an "American woman, 5'9, long hair, etc..." No. It is a descriptive word. Hispanic is not a country to which one can pledge allegiance. Americans come in all shapes, sizes, colors, religions, and ethnicities. I don't ask them to put Hispanic on my driver's license, but they do anyways. But after considering the conversation here, maybe I'll ask them to change it to American next time I go in for my renewal. LOL!
On a side note, have you ever read the story of Chicken Little? You remind me for him. If an acorn hit you in the head, I bed you'd think the sky is falling.
July 25, 2010 at 12:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
skraps (anonymous) says...
Also, methusla, since I have no alegiance to any other country, I refuse to be called a Mexican. My family hails from Mexico, but I am not a Mexican. I'm not a Mexican American, not an American Mexican, and it just doesn't make much sence to be an American Hispanic as adjectives tend to come before the noun. The points I have made make no sense if I refer to myself as simply American. However, if you notice, I never referred to myself as ethnic until it was relevent. Other people have referred to themselves as "White," or "Black," does that make them less American?
July 25, 2010 at 1:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
skraps (anonymous) says...
Also, the Arizona law might be missing some key elements. There are many illegal immigrants that appear to be "Caucasian." If this law promotes racial profiling, what of those people? Do they get a free pass because they appear to be "legal?" And everyone is referring to driver's licenses as being proof of legal status. That is not so. You all have made the point before that many people have fake documentation. So in order to prove one's legal status, one must have a valid proof of citizenship or residency as well as a form of photo I.D.
I don't know about you all, but I would hate to have to carry my birth certificate and social security card around with me all the time. But as I said before, if one must do it, then all should have to do it. I AM an American Citizen and REFUSE to be treated differently than any other American Citizen. This is 2010 people. Let's not go backwards.
July 25, 2010 at 1:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
mustangsue,you state "just based on the color of their skin"-please tell me WHAT nation doesn't do the same? If I go to Mexico, say on a cruise ship and the ship ports, We are instructed to only go certain places and CARRY our passport. Gee, why??? because I am a "whitey" and speak english???? (reasonable suspision) You state "Huge illegal immigration problem in Az. hence
this law everyone is in disagreement about" -Hold on there!!!!! I agree full heartly with this law-see, ALL in the interpretation!!!! I believe we should take the laws of Mexico and their borders/immigration and ENFORCE them here-Boy!!!! can I hear the cries now!!! Yes, open_eyes, some how, our land of the free is now land people don't like the laws and change them to suit their purpose for we DO HAVE immigration laws and AZ. is trying to force our GOVERNMENT into USING those, they were set-up originally for a purpose and Yes, that purpose IS STILL THERE IF NOT IN LARGER DEMAND.
July 25, 2010 at 1:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
I always keep my social security card and my wallet sized birth certificate issued by the state of Kansas (at an additional fee) in my wallet with my Kansas state driver license and my military ID...Just in case someone wants to make sure I'm old enough to buy beer. :-)
July 25, 2010 at 1:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Well, skraps, I am glad you think of and are evidently proud to be an American. And no, if I saw you on the street I would not think twice as to whether you were a legal American, but if I were to walk up to you and ask you a question or say " GOOD DAY, HOW ARE YOU " and all I got was a blank stare and a shoulder shrug, or an attempt at English that I could not understand anyway, then I just might question whether you were an Illegal Immigrant, just as an officer of the law might do if you were stopped for an infraction of the law , especially when one reqirement of legally immigrating to the U.S. is having a working knowledge of speaking and understanding a discernable English .
You are right this is 2010 and this Country has been going backwards to the late 1500s, 1600s, 1700s, 1800 and early 1900s, as far as immigration is concerned, when there was no immigration laws or immigration law enforcement. And as you say, lets not go backwards and move forward and agressivly enforce the immigration laws that have been put into place and more forcefully control or seal the borders . This country cannot support the millions of illegal immigrants that are already here, are still coming, attempting to come or wanting to come. It is time for our government to either aggressively enforce the present immigration laws with every resource available, including the States help do the job or do away with or repeal immigration laws and let the U.S. become a third world country, as will likely happen, as most illegal immigrant do not want to pay for the free handouts they believe they are entitled to recieve .
Oh, and skraps, please watch your spelling and social skills, you are showing a lack of both.
July 25, 2010 at 2:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
skraps, do you mean to say you DON'T carry your drivers license with you at all times? Your social security card? Have proof of insurance in your vehicle? Carry some form of ID concerning medical insurance? Shoot, I even carry "The National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Pass" also, a card concerning which funeral home to call incase of my death. Yes, we carry many forms of identification stating who we are and Yes, many have been checked out to make sure I am who I state I am. When our youngest son was born a number of years ago, when I went to get his social security number, we had to prove by 4 different "notices" he was born. Was that bad?????? NO!!!!!!!! Do we do that today?
When he went into the military, a certified copy of his birth and other forms of identification, is that bad??? No! As with what has been said,there is such a problem with ID theft, that Yes! we must prove who we are. Is that bad? Not if you've ever had identity theft and go threw the channels to correct, which is MAJOR!!!!!
July 25, 2010 at 2:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
mustangsue
You ask who will get profiled more, an Irishman,Canadian or Mexican?
I ask, who of the three, percentage wise, are the biggest violators?
skraps
This is only food for thought for every one here.
Where did the whole African American, Hispannic American, Indian American, Irish American, Chinnese American etc. start.
Was it people of that ethnic background demanding it or was it the gov. who now wants to know that eveytime we fill out a census report, credit app., voter registration etc.
IMHO it started with we, the people, demanding it. It was demanded, in part because, if we were declared a minority we got better rates on loans, a better chance at a job, easier entance to college, in other words it gave some of us a leg up on the rest of the population.
Is it or was it right?
Possibly at the time.
Did it work?
Yes, for those it was designed for.
Who designed it?
We did, because we elected people into office that would do what we wanted. They in turn enacted laws and appointed judges to make sure it goes that way.
We don't have any one to blame for this but us.
I am sure that if I were alive in the WWII
era and had insisted on being a German American that I would have had just as much trouble as the Jappanese American.
The point is, be an American.
Be an American leagally.
Start voting for people who will change the way your drivers license is issued.
Start voting for people who will enforce the immigration laws of the US so the states don't have to write their own.
There's not that much difference , if any between Ariz. law and the US law.
The problem is that they intend to enforce it and should.
If the feds had been doing it all along we wouldn't be in this mess.
July 25, 2010 at 2:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
Occasionally, I forget my wallet on my dresser and drive. A couple of times I was stopped by local law enforcement but I knew my driver license number so they gave me a stern warning and let me go. The last time that happened, the cop told me he could arrest me for not having my papers. I just gave him the silent stare with a poker face and he tucked his tail and walked away. But then again, I'm a good looking American badass so I wouldn't suggest this tactic if your just an average American "go with the flow" shyguy. (=+_+=)
July 25, 2010 at 2:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Good Grief, REWBA, get over yourself, please !!!!!
If you were half as good or wonderful you, yourself think you are, knew .000001 % of what you think you know, and were right only .00000000001% of the time, you might just be considered as or pass for a human being.
July 25, 2010 at 3:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
I never leave the house without my wallet, which has my Drivers license, SS, Credit cards, & other forms of ID in it. On the rare occasions I forget it, I'm extra cautious to obey the speed limit and not do any "rolling stops" at stop signs - LOL. I figure if I'm caught without it I have nobody to blame but myself.
Or FoxNews, of course ;-)
July 25, 2010 at 4:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
OK open_eyes, now be GOOD!!!! You just had to mention those "rolling stops" which I'm queen concerning!!!!!! Also, FoxNews, give them a break!!!!! Both of these items are up to "interpretation"- I stop, but depends who is looking on as to the fact of a complete stop, to me, is. I like Fox News!!!!!! Now go get your wallet!!!!!!!! I'm hungry!!!!!!!!!!!!
July 25, 2010 at 5:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
OMG, gonna send to Hawaii right now for a wallet-sized birth certificate!!!
Just as an aside, I still have my original driver's license circa 1958. It says Territory of Hawaii, and asks for nationality. I remember saying "American" when they asked. The clerk then asked, "Are you being a smart aleck?" I replied that I wasn't, to which she demanded to know, "What are you? What blood? Japanese? Chinese? I was only fifteen, and was more interested in my driver's license than argument, but boy oh boy, that woman was stupid. Then again, when I checked on it later, everyone in Hawaii had their "blood" marked down. Mine says Portuguese/Hawaiian. That's just plain wrong. Wrong! My nationality is American.
Open_eyes, I'm guessing you have made copies of all those documents you carry just in case somebody swipes your billfold.
July 25, 2010 at 6:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
create,
You should tell people you are a Hawaii 50 fan American. That was a good show. It was a crime drama. It was right up there with Miami Vice. They are making an update Hawaii 50 show for peoples television viewing pleasure in case you any of you haven't heard. I bet they don't bring Blossom back. You wanna know why? Because it's not a crime drama! pwnd
Rewba,
"I'm a good looking American......"
Even though we have never met face to face(that we know of) somehow I knew this about you. Takes one to know one I guess.
July 25, 2010 at 6:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
create, so good to see you on, you were missed!!!!! Good point to Open_eyes, guess I should do that before many more years and all these numbers in head start to come together!!!!!!! :-) Number, number on the wall, which one will you be today???? Yes, we ALL are just a number, woe is me!!!!!!!
July 25, 2010 at 6:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
Seriously, No problem with ego in your family. You say "Takes one to know one", so which brother determined this concerning REWBA???????
July 25, 2010 at 6:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Ha Ha Ha :-)
I don't know how I knew .... I just knew.
I guess we Good Looking Americans just recognize each other, even online. LOL ;-)
I'm pretty sure he was joking as was I ... well except about the good looking part. Just kidding.
I'm serious.
July 25, 2010 at 7:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
geoffreym (anonymous) says...
I was quite taken the other day while watching this show on CNN that has Rick Sanchez as its anchor. They were doing this piece on a family in Mesa Az that is now having to pull up roots and move because of SB1070. A Bill I happen to support.
I should note that the husband is legal and the wife is illegal.
I was moved to feel sorry for this couple as it was explained that they were being forced to move after his business has failed. I was actually sucked into feeling compassion for the couple. Then the kicker. This female mexican broadcaster that was conducting the interview was starting to ask the wife how she felt about having to uproot 18 years of memories....and to my amazement she needed an interpreter because she did not speak english.....give me a break. This woman is trying to tear at my heart strings about her loss of 18 years of memories and oneof the fondest memories she forgot to have was that of learning English sometime in the last18 years.
July 25, 2010 at 8 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
skraps (anonymous) says...
I'm not saying that I would not carry more forms of identification if required to do so. I'm just saying that it would be a hassle for me since I lose everything I own at least once a month. People lose wallets and purses all the time. How much more convenient would that be for people looking to steal idenities? In the mean time, I will keep all my personal documents (except my DL) AND credit cards locked up at home unless I know I'm going to need them. It is obvious if you are travelling or know that you may need these documents, to carry them, but for me, it just doesn't make sense to do it on a daily basis. And I'm definitely not only one of my kind.
methusla- Thanks for pointing out my TYPOS. It is much appreciated. ;-) And as to the problem of securing the borders, I completely agree. But controlling the borders is the first step. There are more ways than one to reach a solution. To carry out and enforce the current laws as they sit would be more of a burden to us economically than to implement a plan that would force illegals to pay fines and taxes owed as well as take all steps to become citizens INCLUDING assimilating and learning English. We have to do something to take care of the problem that exists. Even if the borders were shut down completely, the problem within our borders would still be here. I'm not saying, "Well, let's just give 'em all green cards and call it even." I honestly feel like there should be repercussions in the way of fines for those who agree to certain terms. Any illegal person that refuses those terms or has committed any felony should definitely be deported immediately and not allowed re-entry.
July 25, 2010 at 8:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
"force illegals to pay fines and taxes owed "
How would we find out who is illegal?
July 25, 2010 at 8:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
skraps (anonymous) says...
geoffreym - I completely agree with that thought. It's understandable if someone has just come here to not have learned English yet, but to have been here a year or more and not bothered or even attempted to learn the language is inexcusable. I work in a business where many of my customers speak only Spanish. Many of them have been customers for years, and while I appreciate their business, I am absolutely annoyed by the fact that I have to pull out my imperfect Spanish just to communicate with them. One customer had the nerve to giggle at me when I misprounced a word. If I were able to do so without losing my job, I would just quit speaking Spanish at work altogether.
July 25, 2010 at 8:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
skraps (anonymous) says...
seriouslyfolks- Put forth a nationwide notice and time frame. If any person should fail to report and adhere, that person should be deported as well. Obviously, it would not be as easy as it sounds. All the details and any exceptions would have to be worked out just as with any law or program.
July 25, 2010 at 8:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
skraps (anonymous) says...
seriouslyfolks- Also, that's why we do need laws like the new Arizona law to be implemented federally. But steps must be taken in order to ensure that racial profiling is not utilized in seeking out illegals. Ask one, ask all. It may make a routine traffic stop take a little longer, but it would be much more effective in the long run. If we are going to do something that drastic, make it as effective as possible. Like it has been said before, people who are not breaking the law shouldn't have anything to worry about.
July 25, 2010 at 8:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
geoffreym, I have a twenty something year old child who was born in the united states and cannot speak one word. He has Autism. He is physically incapable of speech due to his handicap. My wife of 30 something years is a naturalized citizen who has difficulty speaking English. She understands what is being said to her but cannot formulate the words in English to respond without feeling embarrassed. She defends herself pretty well here in the Emporia area because the people here are kind and patient. My mother had a stroke a few years back and although she was a very articulate speaker (she only spoke English) and relied on communications for her business, for the past few years she has had to go to intense speech therapy to regain the most elementary communication skills. Not everyone is able to learn a second language.
As far as the CNN story goes, I have seen CNN reporters approach Tea Party members and ask them to say something and I couldn't understand one word spewing out of their mouth. Maybe we aught to add a "press 2 for Redneck" to the selections we get when calling the government. LOL :-)
seriouslyfolks, Does Jesus' eyes follow you too? You know, on that picture of him that you have hung on the wall? I knew I was gorgeous when Jesus couldn't stop looking at me. Bet that's how you knew too.
July 25, 2010 at 9:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Rewba,
No, that's not how I knew. I just somehow knew you were and your post confirmed it. The old saying "takes one to know one" is true so I must also be good looking. I always suspected that I was but now I know. ;-)
Just kidding.
I'm serious.
July 25, 2010 at 9:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Yes, I have copies of most things at home, but in all my years anytime I've "lost" my wallet..... I eventually find it. And the TWO times I was victim of identify theft, neither was from anything of mine being stolen. Dishonest waiters apparently, at least for sure in one case.
But that's life. I try to always carry the right things with me, and take my chances when I don't, but I'm not going to cry and moan about how unfair life is in the meantime. It's the law so I try to follow it. Yeah, its an inconvenience at times, but then again so are alot of laws I follow.
July 25, 2010 at 10:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
geoffreym (anonymous) says...
Sorry Rewba, 2 is reserved for spanish.
I don't know if I should feel sorry for you o just pity you. It must be hard for you to get by each day with the amount of tragedy that has followed you around for all these years. When do you find the time to be "yu". You come across the same as this guy yy4u that used to be on these sites.
July 25, 2010 at 10:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
Seriously, I have always been taught that "beauty is only skin deep"- it is what is in the heart that truly counts and I believe you have a super heart.
Rewba, am so sorry to hear of your son. You must truly be a "Godsent" and Yes, I believe Gods eyes are on all of us, Thank goodness!
open_eyes, true, doesn't help to cry and moan about "life" for the grass is always greener on the other side. We legals need to make sure that grass gets greener on this side of the fence by forcing our government to act on its laws. We are required to follow laws, so why aren't they? Or are they above the fence in a tree house?
July 25, 2010 at 11:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
geoffreym, I had the honor to know both of my Great Grandmothers. They both loved me and taught me many things. One of the things that they told me was God will never place more weight upon my shoulders than what I can bear and any weight god hands me is to be borne with honor as a symbol that god almighty trusts me to hold it. The people in my life are a blessing, not a burden. You can keep your sorrow and pity. Thanks for remembering man!
July 25, 2010 at 11:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
Another thing both of my Great Grandmothers always said was "REWBA, Your a good looking kid!" Yup, that's what they said alright. I bet seriouslyfolks' Great Grandmas (or someone similar) said the same thing to him too. That's a SWAG but I bet I'm close.
July 25, 2010 at 11:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mustangsue (anonymous) says...
tbluma wrote
mustangsue
You ask who will get profiled more, an Irishman,Canadian or Mexican?
I ask, who of the three, percentage wise, are the biggest violators?
If that response I received isn't the biggest reason that the AZ law should be shredded and re-written...how racist can you get?
I don't know who the biggest violator is...do you? Sounds like it!
July 26, 2010 at 10:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
According to a Pew Hispanic Center report, in 2005, 57% of illegal immigrants were from Mexico; 24% were from other Latin American countries, primarily from Central America;[3] 9% were from Asia; 6% were from Europe; and 4% were from the rest of the world.[3]
July 26, 2010 at 10:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Sounds like, if you look at and understand the statistics that are right there in front of you, it is pretty obvious where the largest majority of illegal immigrants come from. MEXICO AND SOUTH OF MEXICO. Therefore it is reasonable to deduce who the biggest violators are, and that is not racial profiling, that is just plain true fact. However the Arizona law does not profile any particular ethnic, national or racial group and that is also factual truth.
I know it has been said many, many times before ... Illegal is Illegal ( criminal, breaking the law ) no matter what color, ethnicity, race or nationality you are, " NO Exceptions " .
July 26, 2010 at 11:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mustangsue (anonymous) says...
So the answer to my question is you would assume the Mexican is guilty, even though you don't know....repeat after me "Racial Profiling"
July 26, 2010 at 11:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
mustangsue,
How is the fact that most illegal immigrant come from Mexico racial profiling? Mexico is a country not a race. Mexican is a nationality not a race. What is your vested interest in helping illegal immigrants continue to break the law?
July 26, 2010 at 11:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Nodody (but mustangsue) is saying to assume "the Mexican" is guilty..... but people are saying we have to use some common sense, and realize what the largest percentage of illegal immigrants along our southern border will be. We do not have unlimited resources. Sometimes you have to make the best of what you have.
I know certain people don't like to see Arab men chanting "Allah Akbar" as they board planes given closer scrutiny than some blu-haired 90-year-old grandmother, but those are the facts of the world we live in. How does one allot limited police resources? Is it a good use of taxpayer money to concentrate 81% of your resources leaning in the direction that 81% of the problem lies, or concentrate 50% of it on the other 19 just to make it look even?
Question: If someone tipped off the police that someone was boarding a plane with a bomb, and they only information they were given was they were pretty sure (say, 81% sure) the person was a female caucasian, say, over 60 years old, and the police had limited resources, they didn't have the manpower or time to check everyone, what would you suggest they do? Check 15-year-old boys of all ethnicities as to not appear like they are profiling? Just hypothetical questions I'm throwing out there to ponder....... as I've said, I may not like some laws, and sometimes they do inconvenience me...... but as long as I'm innocent.... I'm not going to let it get to me. If I get searched more often in foreign countries than the majority ethic population of locals do for whatever reason, then so be it. I'll take that as a fact of life and get on with it with a clear conscience.
When my buddies & I were stopped in my earlier story, they weren't stopping light-colored cars. They weren't stopping cars with 1 or 2 guys or a bunch of girls in them. Obviously they were racist and profiling..... or they could have just been using common sense and best use of their time. NONE of us were offended in any way. That's life. If they were acting on the info that it was 4 caucasians in a dark car, I would have felt the same way.
But all this being said, personally, I do NOT want them to single out Hispanics above all others - I would prefer that anytime anyone is stopped or detained for a violation there that their immigration status be checked as standard as asking for a drivers license. EVERYONE.
But the AZ law expressly FORBIDS them singling anyone out based on ethnicity........... so why are we even debating this? Again, given the intense scrutiny that is on AZ, with all the groups that will be watching the police's every move....... and most likely..... people out there just trying to BAIT the police licking their chops in anticipation of a suit......... you think the police aren't going to watch their own steps CLOSELY?
I wonder, given Mexico's extremely strict immigration laws, who gets closer scrutiny there - Hispanics or non-hispanics?
July 26, 2010 at 11:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
mustangsue,
Honest answer please?
Have you even read the Arizona law?
It seems to me you are basing your arguments on emotion rather than fact.
If in fact you have read the Arizona law have you read the Mexican State law on immagration? Tell me which one is stricter, please?
July 26, 2010 at 11:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
My computer at work makes me insert my ID before it lets me log on. I've been working there for many years. You would think that computer would recognize me by now. Stupid computer! It wasn't even born in the United States! I think it's a racist!
July 26, 2010 at 11:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
REWBA, you have a valid argument. Computers further discriminate against illiterate people, and most computers in this country also discriminate against non-English alphabets.
I smell lawsuits ;-)
July 26, 2010 at 12:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
什麼？
您一定是瘋狂的
July 26, 2010 at 12:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
Darn keyboard! It's made in Mexico! I think it hates me!
July 26, 2010 at 12:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
mustangsue
No, noone assumes a Mexican, Salvadoran, a Columbian, a Peruvian, an Argentinian, A Chilian or any other hispanic or Latin American is guilty at all . The Arizona law does not tell law enforcement to make that distinction either. As a matter of fact the Arizona law expressly forbids racial profiling or discriminating, because of race, color of skin, ethnicity, nationality , " PERIOD ' .
It just happens to be a trueism that most of the illegal immigrants, just happen to come from Mexico, and most of the other Latin American and Central American Countries . I just don' t understand why you and others refuse to see what is right there in front of you .
I would like to get your take on the following news release,
Mexico: Prison guards let killers out, lent guns
MEXICO CITY — Guards and officials at a prison in northern Mexico allegedly let inmates out, lent them guns and sent them off in official vehicles to carry out drug-related killings, including the massacre of 17 people last week, prosecutors said Sunday.
source, http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38405628/...
And we have people who do not want the U.S, Arizona or any other States to better enforce the immigration laws, seal the borders, or aggressivly look for and deport illegal immigrants . Just how many of the types of people mentioned in the news release above, may be in the U.S. illegally and looking to commit a crime or harm a legal U.S. citizen. Good Grief people wake up and that goes for President Obama and the Congress of the U.S. .
July 26, 2010 at 12:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
The computer i use makes me insert quarters before I can surf the net. I don't blame the computer, I'm the one that chooses to go to a laundromat to do my internetting. By the way, open_eyes, I think one of your socks got into my laundry again. I'll hold onto it for you. I hope you don't mind that it's now pink. It got washed with my red trousers.
July 26, 2010 at 1:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
mustangsue,"What a web we have woven!" I have very close friends living in southern Texas, their brother-in-law is with the Border Patrol. How interesting he is to talk with but also, how very maddening at how our government has tied their hands. We currently have two Border Patrol guards in PRISON for shooting and allowing the other to shoot, an illegal in the leg because he was running from them and wouldn't stop! The illegal then SUED and WON!!! He was on American soil and therefore fell under our laws, such as they be!!!! Yes! they violated his right to run once on our soil.
My question is: If someone breaks into my home ILLEGALLY and I shoot them, will I go to prison? He is in my house.
Where do the laws lie? The home owner or the illegal?
Also, back to the court house. Say I go into the court house and the alarm DOESN'T go off because of my total knee, just how secure do you think I would feel? Believe me this gal would truly be UPSET for MY tax dollars have gone into that system to protect!!!! Our tax dollars are going into the border patrol for services rendered but then we tie their hands and not allow them to do their job. Saying "Please don't cross that border" just doesn't work!!!!! A little common sense, please. Therefore, saying "If you are illegal please leave this country" would be no different then me asking the illegal in my home to leave, he most likely would just laugh at me UNLESS I had "power" to re-enforce.
July 26, 2010 at 2:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Dang..... I wondered why I was getting blisters on one foot and not the other. I would suggest handling it with a full radiation suit and a 10-foot pole, just to be safe.
Well as long as my favorite Spaceman Spiff rocketship underpants didn't get mixed up and dyed, I'm ok (from Calvin & Hobbes for those not familiar with)
;-)
July 26, 2010 at 2:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
You know, come to think of it, I have been forced to show my ID on a daily basis for the past 32 years of my life. It is really easy! Just pull out your wallet and find the card being requested and show it. Simple! Our Soldiers have to do it to access the base that they are obligated to work at and nobody is screaming that their rights are being violated.
July 26, 2010 at 2:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
Dang it open_eyes, so you"re the one!!!!! I was out shopping for "Spaceman Spiff rocketship" underwear and they told me they had sold the last pair and wasn't sure when they would get more in. You ruined my surprise!!!! So out of frustration I HAD to go to "Victoria Secret" and see what they had in stock. You really owe me a "fashion show" since I walked my legs off and never found and had to settle on good ole Victoria. :-)
July 26, 2010 at 5:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
If you went to Victoria's Secret..... sounds like the fashion show should be the other way around!!!! ;-)
This sounds alot like some of the voting laws (that got struck down) requiring people to show photo ID when they vote, ....... it put "too much of a hardship" on the poor and elderly.... the same people who are required to show identification when they apply for government assistance and so forth. Geez, its not like you vote every day. If they can remember to take all that ID with them when they get assistance, they can surely remember to do it once every 2 years....
Well at least they got enough illegal felons to vote to get Franken elected in Minnesota. And alot of these are the same people still complaining about 2000. Things that make ya go "huh"????
Yep, everything that makes me lift one tiny finger to obey the law is a hardship on me. Cause if there weren't any laws then I wouldn't have to go out of my way to obey them. Woe is me. :-(
July 26, 2010 at 6:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
mustangsue
What is your address?
Why do I ask?
Simple
I want to come over to your house, open the door, walk around in said house and look things over.
Then if I like it I think I'll decide to rent a room and stay awhile.
If I can't pay the bill I'll just go back to my place and hang around a day or two and come back to your palce and start all over again. Then if I happen to get hurt or sick I'll go to your hospital, to the emergency room to get treated.
After all every one is entitiled to free health care, in your hospital.
By the way, while I've been living with you I've spawned a couple of kids. Since they were born in your house they are now your responsibility ( they're family after all) You have to give them free a free education, free meals at school (even in the summer), and I want day care.
Since I don't speak English you're going to have to hire an interpretur so me and my kids know how to get all this stuff.
Get my drift?
Wake up and smell the roses.
July 26, 2010 at 7:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
By the way
no racial profiling in the last blog by me
JUST FACT
And if it isn't good enough for you own personal house then don't shove it down my house.
July 26, 2010 at 7:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
By the way
no racial profiling in the last blog by me
JUST FACT
And if it isn't good enough for your own personal house then don't shove it down my house.
July 26, 2010 at 7:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
Sorry about the double post
July 26, 2010 at 7:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
Yes, open_eyes, I am one of Victoria's best customers but I do get so very frustrated when I go. The clerks know me and smile, guess not alot of 60+ women frequent BUT they make me pay for everything I get!!!! I feel that since I am in their store they should GIVE me what I want. Oh! Life just isn't fair!!!!!! Isn't that what the illegals do? They come into our store(country) and then we are to hand over jobs, medical, housing etc.
Also, since I have a credit card for "Victoria" I HAVE to show my ID, the nerve!!! to make sure I am who the credit card is issued to.
Sorry, no fashion show!!!! Remember I ask first!!!!! Now my son in the military will not get an embarrassing surprise when he opens a box from home. Rats!!!
Is so very hard to think of things that a mother can send her son, was more fun sending things to Asia a number of years ago, "open season"!!!!!
July 26, 2010 at 8:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
No response from mustangsue yet?
Please respond to my questions sue?
Have you read the Arizona law?
Which is stricter, the Arizona law or the Mexican state, (federal law)?
As the Arizona law hasn't even taken effect yet all of this hub-bub is based on personal feelings and speculation.
Shame on our president and A.G. for coming out and saying the law was raciest and unconstitutional before they even read it. And now the Fed is suing the state saying they have no standing.
Hey Barak, I voted for you hoping for "change." All I see is the same old sh_t, and yes I will hold you and your party accountable.
Something the Democrats AND the Republicans and all the beltway pundits cannot understand. WE DON'T CARE WHO'S AT FAULT. WE WANT IT FIXED!
July 26, 2010 at 9:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
karma (anonymous) says...
Wow, can some of these posters get anymore dramatic? lol I can't help but find it somewhat funny.
July 26, 2010 at 9:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
open_eyes, what is that saying about age? Something about "you grow old when you stop playing", mine is "I've grown old when I stop trying to be feminine" My daughter has reminded me this many times since the loss of her father. I ain't old YET!!!!
July 26, 2010 at 9:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
Karma, good!!! if you can laugh and some of us have entertained you, our day hasn't been a total loss. Glad you enjoy!!! Never lose that ability! (even as you age) I was in a nursing home this week allowing those who wanted to vote, vote. So many sad eyes-not sure how many times I was told how they appreciated me coming- a smile. Guess what??? They were smiling after voting, so yes, two things were accomplished.
July 26, 2010 at 9:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Sandman, the saying is (as I've always heard it)
"You don't slow down because you grow old, you grow old because you slow down".
Karma, if you wanted to see dramatic and people losing their cool, you should have been around during the Bush years and listened to all the pure hate getting spewed. (Mostly by the same people that get all indignant about any disagreement with our current admin now - because, ya know, its all racism now.)
July 26, 2010 at 9:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
karma (anonymous) says...
Sandman, congratulations! I too hope to one day make people smile, unfortunately not how you and some of the posters have made me in the past few days. Thank you for the entertainment though!
July 26, 2010 at 9:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
karma, I believe that the majority of undocumented aliens would prefer to be a documented legal resident but because they are able to move about freely and are able to find employment without documentation and get free medical they just don't fill out the applications and pay the fees. Why should they? It's more convenient and cost effective to pay a counterfeiter for fake papers. Currently employers accept those fake papers and law enforcement doesn't ask to see them so why bother with doing things the right way?
American citizens of Hispanic decent should be the first to want to eliminate the illegal immigration of Hispanic people. It's just one less reason a racist has to beach about "Mexicans". jmo
July 26, 2010 at 9:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
karma (anonymous) says...
REWBA- where is all of this coming from?
July 26, 2010 at 10:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
karma, You said you hoped to make people smile but not in the manner that some of us poster have recently. I see "sad eyes"the inablity to have fun even when life is "sour" or someone who has their mind in the gutter. I could have spoke of BlueStem Farm and Ranch, but since my favorite store is "Victoria's", I chose it. Sorry life has taken its toll on you for nothing has been said in the past post that was "out of line" and wasn't said in the nature of "fun" or also on the subject, being illegal. SMILE, for there is tomorrow, hopefully!!!!
open-eyes, you are correct, Thanks! karma, please read open-eyes post, very true!!!! (ALL OF IT!!!)
July 26, 2010 at 10:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
I'm a white dude. My wife is half Chinese and and half Panamanian. My children are a mix of both of us. We are all American Citizens yet my wife and children face the reality of racial discrimination at least once each week. Like I said, I'm a white dude so if not for witnessing the experiences of my immediate family members, I wouldn't believe it if someone told me that in 2010 there was still racism in America. No, it's not the crazies wearing sheets and burning crosses. It is much more subtle. Yeah, the door at my workplace wants to see my building pass before it opens and my work computer checks my ID before allowing me to log on but other than that, nobody ever "scrutinizes" my ID. My spouse and children don't have it like that though. When they are required to present their ID, (much more often than me BTW) the person requesting it makes facial grimaces and or takes it to a supervisor as if what they are showing isn't legit. People are outright rude and a few just start spewing hateful remarks about illegals and anchor babies and derogatory comments about Mexicans and Asians. Yes, it is a minority of people but it happens. How does that effect the self esteem of a child? Listen to national news networks, radio commentators and even family entertainment on the TV. Do the white people at the tea parties even consider that young American children of Hispanic decent are listening to their hateful derogatory speech? Illegal immigration is one issue. Racism is another. The climate over the issue of immigration reform is combining the two issues making it impossible to find common ground. American citizens, regardless of race, should embrace the issue of illegal immigration and reform all aspects of immigration so that people who want to work can legally come and work. People who want to visit can legally come visit and people want to become legal have a pathway to do so legally. Those who refuse to obey the law can go back where they came from and break the laws there. jmo
July 26, 2010 at 11:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
skraps (anonymous) says...
REWBA- That is the last reason that I as an American of Hispanic descent would have as a reason for wanting illegal immigration eliminated. So, thanks for trying to relate, but way off base. The reason I want to eliminate illegal immigration is the same reason most American citizens want to eliminate it: BECAUSE IT IS ILLEGAL.
While I don't believe that illegal immigrants are necessarily the burden on the country that many people on here would have everyone believe, I do believe in my country's laws. I expect everyone who wants to benefit and take part in the American way of life to pay their taxes and take steps toward becoming a productive citizen. I just disagree with all the ignorance, hatred and racial stereotypes that result of the minds of people who should know better.
Too often people blame their misfortunes on others. One may see an person of another race or ethnicity in a position of power in a successful company and resent that person's race for it. It works backwards and forwards. Blacks blame whites who blame browns who blame whites who blame blacks and so on... The truth of the matter is that it is up to each person to make his own way in life. And I don't believe in affirmative action or special treatment for minorities whatsoever. Everyone should have the same chance at every opportunity. As a matter of fact, I believe it to be more of a hindrance to give anyone special treatment. Trust me when I say that a person gains much more experience and wisdom in the world by having to overcome more obstacles than his peers.
July 26, 2010 at 11:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
skraps (anonymous) says...
REWBA- Now your last post, I totally agree with! I didn't think I would find a single post out of the 200+ on this subject that I would actually agree with and you did it for me! Bravo!
July 26, 2010 at 11:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
sandman, During the "Bush Years" the nation coined a new term. "Free Speech Zones" Do you know what that is? We are Americans living in America! Everywhere is a "Free Speech Zone" but loyalty to the party line blinded the right to the kidnapping and rape of lady liberty perpetrated by their great leader and his possy. Any billionaires giving their lives for Freedom in Iraq? There is a line of them asking for multi-billion dollar no bid contracts.
July 26, 2010 at 11:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
REWBA, could you give us some examples of that "hateful derogatory speech" being spewed by the Tea Party? And not just some claims, something actually proven, that wasn't reprimanded from within or flat kicked out of the Tea Party? Would you like me to give you about a zillion examples spewed by the other side towards the tea party? I've got plenty of links....
So I'm curious. You don't like profiling. You don't belive in stereotyping the masses because of a few. You're against large groups being singled out because there are a few bad apples in the bunch. You're against profiling.
YET...... you do EXACTLY that towards the Tea Party. There's a few loonies in every crowd. We saw MORE than just a few in all the anti-Bush protests. Yet I never heard you complain about all their hateful derogatory speech. The blacks that are in Tea Parties say they don't see or feel racism. People who make racist remarks get kicked out. The billboard in Iowa in poor taste was reprimanded from within. The guy who showed up at the St Louis tea party wearing a swastika & claiming to be from the KKK was kicked out. (I would't be surprised to find out down the road he was a plant). There's a standing $100,000 reward for anyone that can prove the N word was yelled at the Congressmen apparently 15 times. they claim.... yet not a single video, cellphone, or anything else has come forward to prove it. And there were lots of audio/video of the event. (Not to mention now the leaked emails our out between journalists discussing picking conservatives, any conservative, and just labeling them a racist just as a political ploy). Yet you stereotype and profile the whole movement based on a few.
So why are you surprised when people act exactly like you do?
July 26, 2010 at 11:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Yes, and we've got another "rape" of freedom going on with the Obama and his "posse", as you say in the media - with one major exception, thank goodness.
July 26, 2010 at 11:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
This is interesting:
http://apnews1.iwon.com//article/2010...
Immigrant groups criticize fingerprint initiative
A few snippets...
The program has gotten less attention than Arizona's new immigration law, but it may end up having a bigger impact because of its potential to round up and deport so many immigrants nationwide.....
The San Francisco sheriff wanted nothing to do with the program, and the City Council in Washington, D.C., blocked use of the fingerprint plan in the nation's capital. ....
Under the program, the fingerprints of everyone who is booked into jail for any crime are run against FBI criminal history records and Department of Homeland Security immigration records to determine who is in the country illegally and whether they've been arrested previously. ,,,,,
Since everyone arrested would be screened, the program could easily deport more people than Arizona's new law......
Supporters of the program argue it is helping identify dangerous criminals that would otherwise go undetected. Since Oct. 27, 2008 through the end of May, almost 2.6 million people have been screened with Secure Communities. Of those, almost 35,000 were identified as illegal immigrants previously arrested or convicted for the most serious crimes, including murder and rape, ICE said Thursday. More than 205,000 who were identified as illegal immigrants had arrest records for less serious crimes.
In Ohio, Butler County Sheriff Rick Jones praised the program, which was implemented in his jurisdiction earlier this month.
"It's really a heaven-sent for us," Jones said. He said the program helps solve the problem police often have of not knowing whether someone they arrested has a criminal history and is in the country illegally.
Rusnok said the only place he knows of that has requested not to be a part of Secure Communities is San Francisco, ........ Hirst said the program goes against San Francisco's sanctuary city policy.....
July 26, 2010 at 11:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
REWBA,
You say, " American citizens, regardless of race, should embrace the issue of illegal immigration and reform all aspects of immigration so that people who want to work can legally come and work. People who want to visit can legally come visit and people want to become legal have a pathway to do so legally. Those who refuse to obey the law can go back where they came from and break the laws there. jmo "
Well, immigrants who wish to come and legally work, come and legally visit and those who want to become legal citizens, already have a pathway to do so. It is called do what the immigration law of the U.S. requires and follow all of the procedures required and an immigrant will be able to work, visit, legally and become a legal citizen of the U.S. . And those who do not wish to take the legal path to work, visit or attain legal citizenship , will definately not leave voluntary, they must be forced to leave through proper enforcement of the U.S. immigration law, by any means available.
Also, there are those on this forum, that would have people believe that they are against illegal immigration and for the enforcement of immigration laws or deporting illegal immigrants and yet they are also for giving the illegal immigrants a break and give them amnesty or make them instant legal citizens of the U.S.
And these same people take offense, when someone else says that they are against illegal immigration/immigrants , want something done about it, such as being more agressive in the capture, arrest and deportation of illegal immigrants and yet are chastized and called racist for saying so.
Some people need to make up their mind exactly where they stand and how much therapy they think they should have.
Problem is, you cannot be against illegal immigration and condone/reward illegal immigration/immigrants with amnesty or instant legal citizenship. Do you have any idea the problems that would cause , And what about the disrespect and slap in the face to the immigrants that took the time and spent the money to enter, work, visit or become a legal citizen of the U.S..
July 26, 2010 at 11:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
skraps, SUPER post!!!! I do have a question, how do you feel concerning the non-english speaking? "Our" nation has spent a fortune having signs in both English and Spanish, various literature, the same. We are an Enlish speaking nation, Yes! this truly upsets me for I don't mind if they are here legally and speak our language. It truly appears that at a time our nation is broke we continue to spend more and more money to help the spanish speaking. I don't see those signs in other languages.
Your opinion, please.
We had a foreign exchange daughter, her family was originally from Finland, but because of no work, they migrated to Sweden. They spoke Finnish at home but "outside" they spoke Swedish, thus "duel" language. They wanted to "fit" in and be Swedish. Yes, their roots were Finnish and many of their family gatherings are finnish but to the outside "Swedish". I truly don't feel this is so much to ask in "our" country.
July 27, 2010 at 12:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
karma,
I see your confusion. You thought I was being serious about being a Miami Vice fan American and you thought I was being all sorts of dramatic but I wasn't. I was just kiddin' around maybe with a little social commentary thrown in. I totally understand your confusion because sometimes it's hard for people to tell when someone is being funny in a post on an internet forum. Some people just don't get humor at all. You may be one or the other or both. I don't know but let me tell ya, those posts were jokes. That radioGaGa lady or guy obviously also took it serious and got offended because he or she is a wimpy Blossom fan. At least you laughed at it even though you were laughing for the wrong reason. Stick around and maybe if you read my posts long enough you will develop a sense of humor too. No need to thank me, I'm here to help. ........ What were we talking about? Oh yeah, the smoking ban.
July 27, 2010 at 12:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
skraps (anonymous) says...
sandman- As I have mentioned before, I am completely against people expecting the nation to cater to their unwillingness to learn the language. My mom learned English. She has a thick accent and is often embarrassed by her pronunciation of certain words, but she now speaks it better grammatically then she does Spanish. It CAN be done and should be.
July 27, 2010 at 12:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
skraps (anonymous) says...
methusla-
"yet they are also for giving the illegal immigrants a break and give them amnesty or make them instant legal citizens of the U.S"
Who, in all these posts, has ever said anything like that? A person's opinions don't have to be one-sided. As an intelligent person, one must be able to at least understand the other side, even if you believe that side is totally wrong. One can be against illegal immigration AND for immigration reform. The system needs smoothing. It can take someone YEARS to become a citizen legally. That's not an excuse, but we must look at the root issues that have created this problem.
July 27, 2010 at 12:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
And as to all your billlionaires supposedly toeing the party line, from
http://www.newsmeat.com/billionaire_p...
List of all Billionaires and their contributions broken down by party since 1978:
I stuck it in a spreadsheet to get the totals. Out of over $63 million in campaign contributions.....the breakdown is....
38% Democrat
39% Republican
22% Special Interest.
Hmmmm......
July 27, 2010 at 12:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
open_eyes, The difference between the Tea Party and someones ethnicity is you can choose to be part of the tea party.
I also said that it was a minority of people who are outright racist. As far as an example of racially motivated slurs at tea parties, Who are you going to believe, me, or your lying eyes? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdyGhE...
July 27, 2010 at 12:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
True, you did say minority, but I've seen you jump on the bandwagon before. And I agree. Those scum should be dragged thru a gravel pit naked.
Only difference between us is, I also thought and was vocal about the same thing during the last 8 years - when the "minority" of hate-mongers seemed to be a much larger chunk of the overall picture. I remember your views that got you banned originally and you seemed to have no problem expressing hatred in the other direction. I give alot more credence to people who complain about it both ways than in just one direction. . Hate is hate. Whether you vent hatred and ill will on someone because of their race or their political beliefs, one is no better than the other. True, someone has no choice about their ethnicity, but we all have choices about how we act towards one another. Ignorance is ignorance, no matter the source.
July 27, 2010 at 1:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
But to be fair, your point is valid about the "white folks" at the tea parties that carry the disgraceful signs and make remarks.
I just wish alot of "folks" of all colors and ethnicities would think about how they appeared to young people with the signs they carried and the things they said. All the time. Not just from 2000 to 2008.
July 27, 2010 at 1:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
genxer (anonymous) says...
Open_Eyes,
If you don't believe the tea partiers are racist just look at who they've thrown their political weight behind!
Oh wait....
A cuban American in Florida senate race over a popular white governor, an African American in South Carolina over a white guy, and an Indian American in South Carolina over several white guys just to name a few off the top of my head.
Doesn't sound to racist to me.
July 27, 2010 at 8:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
skraps
I agree noone, that I can recall right now has actually said to allow illegal immigrants to become " instant citizens ", however the " connotation/insinuation " of just that thing is there in their statements and you insinuated that very thing in you very last post aimed at me, quote, " It can take someone YEARS to become a citizen legally. That's not an excuse, but we must look at the root issues that have created this problem. "
You are insinuating that if it only took minutes or weeks instead of YEARS to be able to enter the U.S. legally or to become a legal U.S. citizen, taking longer is not acceptable and is the entire root problem of illegal immigration. If that is not insinuating the same as " almost instant " U.S. citizenship " or instant approval to enter the U.S., then what is it. And I am vehemently against any such proposal .
I say you are wrong and the real root problem behind the illegal immigrant and illegal immigration problem is the fact that the U.S. Government, President/Presidents, Congressmen/women (politicians ) do not have the will or spine to agressivly enforce present immigration laws and have made it entirely to easy for immigrants to enter the U.S. illegally, especially along the South West Border of the U.S. .
Answer me this, just how many immigrants, legal or illegal do you think the U.S. will be able to support and sustain, without doing great damage to the U.S. economy, ecology and infrastructure, before the U.S. becomes a third world country ?
And how many of these illegal immigrants, who have been being paid, under the table and not have been paying income tax, getting freebies, would all of a sudden, would be willing/required to pay income tax, not be able to claim relatives, family, etc., both real and bogus in their home country as dependents they are supporting, which by the way is a sham in itself, just how many of these people would be willing to do that ?
Not as many as you think, I am thinking .
continued.
July 27, 2010 at 9:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
continued
Some people need to take a look at the requirements and immigration laws of other countrys of the world and compare those countrys immigration requirements and laws, before they judge the immigration requirements and laws of the U.S. as too strict and unreasonable.
The U.S. has some of the least strict immigration requirements and laws of any or most of the worlds countrys, including Mexico, and yet these people, such as yourself are insisting the immigration laws of the U.S., are the root of the problem.
I am telling you the present immigration requirements and laws of the U.S. are not the root of the problem. " LACK OF AGRESSIVE AND FORCEFUL ENFORCEMENT " of the present immigration requirements and laws of the U.S. is the " SOUL " root of the problem, as well as " UNSECURE BORDERS " .
This attitude of, " Oh the poor misunderstood illegal immigrant " needs a break, or lets loosen up the immigration requirements and laws of the U.S., that will solve the problem is a very dangerous attitude or mind set
July 27, 2010 at 9:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Stay on topic folks. This forum is about
" Control borders " not Tea Party Candidates.
July 27, 2010 at 9:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
"One can be against illegal immigration AND for immigration reform."
I think this is where I am. In this country we have to promote a high level of respect for the law which we have not done and this is why we find ourselves in this situation. We can't however deny the fact that immigration is a big part of this country and it can be very good for it. There are many problems with the current system that need to be addressed and they could be addressed with reform but the federal government who is supposed to enforce the immigration laws but has refused to is now putting off reform. They don't want to enforce their laws and they are unwilling to reform them. I don't blame Arizona for what they are trying to do because they are dealing with this problem on "the front line." There may be problems with the law like with anything else that involves flawed human beings (who among us is not flawed?) but when the federal government refused to help them they felt they had to do something. Now the federal government is trying to tie Arizona's hands because they are trying to do the job the feds won't. Hey federal government, if you don't want Arizona doing your job in a way that you don't like, DO IT YOURSELF like you should have been doing all along!!!!!!!!!!!! If you think reform is needed then do it but until then enforce your laws. Yes this includes laws prohibiting the hiring illegal immigrants.
July 27, 2010 at 10:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mustangsue (anonymous) says...
I can't believe this, but seriouslyfolks turned me around. I agree 100% with what he/she said.....wow.
July 27, 2010 at 11:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
skraps (anonymous) says...
"taking longer is not acceptable and is the entire root problem of illegal immigration. If that is not insinuating the same as " almost instant " U.S. citizenship "
You really have a way of twisting words to suit your own agrenda. I never said that the laws are the "entire" root problem. Nor have I insinuated that I believe that legally entering the United States should take minutes or weeks. What I was insinuating is that the system is flawed with so many road blocks that citizenship or even residency is out of the realm of possiblity for some people. There is no excuse for breaking the law. PERIOD. But at many points in our history there have been countless laws that have been reformed or even abolished to better suit the rights and needs of the American people. And do you really think that pumping more people into an already overloaded system is the right thing to do? Is that the best thing for our economy or even the immigration problem?
"Some people need to take a look at the requirements and immigration laws of other countrys of the world and compare those countrys immigration requirements and laws"
Please don't compare the laws of other countries. We are not there, we are in the U.S. of A. This country holds itself to a higher standard. I really don't care if China makes all people dress up like bunnies before they can enter the country. That's not my problem because I don't want to go to China. The point is, we are HERE right NOW and SOMETHING must be done. If people started wanting to import laws from other lands that you happen to oppose, I'm sure you would state the obvious to them. "If you want the laws of other countries, then move there!"
July 27, 2010 at 11:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
skraps
First of all if you and others would take the time to read the immigration laws of the U.S., those immigration laws and requirements for entering, visiting, working and gaining legal U.S. citizenship, pales in comparison to the immigration, legal visitor, legal worker, gaining legal citizenship laws/requirements of the Country of your ethnicity and heritage, " Mexico " , not to mention other countrys . And if you yourself believe the U.S., does indeed have higher standards than other Countrys of the world ... then why is it the immigration laws, requirements and enforcement of such laws are not stricter and tougher than they presently are ?
Your whole logic of believing that the immigration laws/requirements of the U.S. are unjustly too tough/strict and have too many road blocks and yet professing that the U.S. has higher standards than the rest of the worlds countrys, that have even tougher and stricter immiration laws than the U.S. is about as hypocritical as I have seen and read for some time ... skraps, you cannot have it both ways, that is just not possible .
However I will agree that that section of the immigration law that should be done away with is the part about allowing a child born to illegal immigrants is automaticly a citizen of the U.S., as that is a travisty to all those who are or have become legal citizens of the us by following the immigration laws and requirements.
July 27, 2010 at 1:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
skraps
You are right about one thing, we are in the U.S. of A. and the accepted language is English and the generally accepted rule of U.S. society is to abide by the law . And one of the requirements to legally enter, work and become a legal citizen of the U.S., is an immigrant must have a working knowledge of English, that means an immigrant must have basic English skills, such as being able to read, speak and understand a modest amount of English, before even being considerd for legal employment, entry into the U.S. and gaining U.S. citizenship. In your eyes and way of thinking would this requirement be too much of a Road Block ?
Allowing only 1 million immigrants per year into the U.S., which is a requirement and law , be too much of a road block, to your flawed logic ?
Would the requirement of not admitting certain types of immigrants with certain Criminal backgrounds or certain political views and affiliations be a road block that should be removed ?
Just exactly what unnecessary road blocks in the immigration laws of the U.S. do you believe should be removed or made easier and still maintain a reasonable, fair and lawful commitment to the legal citizens to keep the U.S. and the legeal citizens of the U.S. safe, economically sound and ecologically in tact .
As I have said before the only thing wrong with the immigration requirements and laws, as they now stand, is the lack of support for a more aggressive and forceful enforcement of the present immigration laws and requirements .
July 27, 2010 at 1:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
skraps
Do you really believe that there are enough jobs in the U.S., to support all of the legal citizens of the U.S. who are currently out of work and enough jobs for all the illegal citizens, if they were to be easily made legal citizens, as well as those you would open the doors of the U.S. even wider that wish to come here legally as well as illegally .
If so, exactly where are all of the millions of jobs ? The answer is a resounding, emphatic, " NO " and most likely never will be .
I am sure Obama and Congress would be glad to know exactly where all of these jobs are, as well as all of those legal citizens who are out of work.
You really need to stop living in your dream world and come back to reality.
July 27, 2010 at 1:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
skraps, laws of other lands? Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't our own U.S. Constitution made up of views from people that came from England? They chose the points they liked and did away with the ones they didn't, also adding new points. Also, I have understood that posters were referring to (comparing) laws to other lands to our own. You have stated that our U.S. Immigration Laws need to be changed, Why? As I stated earlier, if we took the Immigration Laws of Mexico as our own, the cries you would hear that they are toooo strick.
What has been asked here if WHY we are not following our current "rules" (laws) concerning immigration? Do we not ask ALL people immigrating from other lands to follow the same rules/laws in order to enter the United States legally? No "profiling" that I see.
July 27, 2010 at 2:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
GenXer - good points! LOL
Sorry methusla, but haven't you heard, EVERYthing in this country is now about race. You can't disagree with a single thing this administration does without it being racist. Tea partiers disagree, therefor they are all racist. Even when they're kicking caucasian guys out of office. That's reverse racism, but still racism.
But of course the New Black Panthers are excluded. I know so because Holder said they were.
But anyway, back to immigration. The other day I was filling up a bucket with water. Everything worked fine until the bucket was full. Then it started running over. Made a mess everywhere. Sometimes what worked 10 seconds earlier (or 100 years ago) doesn't work anymore.
So..... who has a problem with the fingerprinting law I posted earlier? If so, why? Instead of our government just ceding part of a national park to the Mexico drug gangs, couldn't we give them San Francisco instead? Besides, I know they'd get a much warmer welcoming reception there.
July 27, 2010 at 5:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
Some people just want a reason to complain. Solutions are not the objective. Compromise is not in their vocabulary. They just rant and disagree with every proposal placed before them.
methusla, You say illegal immigration is a problem but you say we don't need immigration reform.
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." ~~ Albert Einstein
July 27, 2010 at 6:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
How is enforcing present laws, more forcefully/aggressivly and securing the borders against illegal immigration, insanity and not a workable solution to the problem . The real insanity is to have an immigration law and not enforce, "said " law to the fullest extent of the law and by whatever means available ~~~ " methusla "
July 27, 2010 at 7:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
Border Patrol Agents attend a 19 week course at the Border Patrol Academy. There they learn CURRENT immigration laws. After completing the basic course they are required to undergo post academy training and on the job training for an additional 12 months during their probationary period.
Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agents attend a 13 week course at the Immigration and Customs Enforcement Academy. They too learn CURRENT immigration laws.
I'm sure our Border Patrol Agents and Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agents are doing the best that they can under the CURRENT laws they are required to follow.
Few, and I mean very few police officers, sheriff deputies, and state troopers have ever undergone any training in Immigration law and those who have understand why they are to contact the federal agencies for assistance in the area of Immigration Enforcement under CURRENT law.
There are too many ways that a city cop can get into trouble when it comes to this issue. Our law enforcement personnel are indemnified by their employer when the screw up on the clock. Therefore, it is the citizens of whatever jurisdiction that are made to pay for the civil settlements made to people who's civil rights are violated by the public employees who over reach their authority.
Reform of current immigration law is needed if we are to expect different outcome to whatever we are doing now.
July 27, 2010 at 8:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
open_eyes, I truly enjoyed the article concerning "finger" prints. Yah!!! Ohio! Was so very pleased that, yes, they agree. So wish Kansas would do the same. I had to be fingerprinted a number of years ago for a job, no big thing! When our children were little Dillions was doing an "identification" of children and on the card was their fingerprints, so I took them in, no biggie, but could have been if for some reason we would have had to identify them.If this process could save us dollars, which it appears it is, I simply can't understand why any state would refuse. Against someones freedom, what about MY freedom and rights to expect ALL our laws being followed just as I'm to follow.
Grass all mowed and I didn't once verse my disproval of mother nature and her bestowing all this rain on us that I didn't ask for and have felt we could do without, please say "good girl"!!! Must admit, took a dip in the pool afterwards, boy! did that feel good!!!!!!!!!! It was hot out there.
July 27, 2010 at 8:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
Meth, have ment to say how I have enjoyed your post. You do a super job and I can tell you are very concerned with our nation and its policies.I have wondered what would happen if I went into one of our local bars and had a cigarette then I could say the current law is outdated and needs changed for it is against MY rights!!!! I'm human and deserve to have my rights upheld.
July 27, 2010 at 9:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
I would like to ask those who are professing immigration reform exactly what reforms do you reformers, suggest ?
And what in the " Blue Blazes " makes you think that a reformed immigration law will be enforced any better than the one that is presently in place ?
I will not nor do not approve of the lessening of any of the immigration requirements or laws that are already in place for an immigrant who wishes to legally immigrate to the U.S. to legally visit, legally seek employment, legally live, or become a legal citizen of the U.S.. As I believe that the present immigration requirements and laws are sufficient, if these requirements and laws are properly enforced by and with any and all means necessary . Nor will I support any type of " Amnesty " or " Citizenship " for those illegal immigrants that are already in the U.S. illegally, who have broken the immigration requirements and laws, by just being here. But I will and do support arresting, fining and deporting those illegal immigrants that are already in the U.S. by " Criminal " means . And will and do support and applaud those States and the people of those States who wish to protect their State and the people of that State by helping the Federal Government of the U.S. enforce the immigration laws of the U.S.. As it would seem that the Feder Government either needs all the help it can get or is unwilling to do so itself.
As I said before, if you are going to lessen the restrictions, requirements and laws placed upon immigrants who wish to come to or enter the U.S., you might as well do away with immigration laws al; together, and if that happens, then you will see some really serious problems and the distruction and decay of the U.S. as we now know it.
Again, " Wake Up " people before it is too late to do anything about a present problem and a potentially worsening problem .
And more, stronger enforcement of the present immigration laws and securing the U.S. borders is the answer to the immigration problem. The lessening of or getting rid of any of the present immigration requirements and laws will only serve to make the problem worse and serve to weaken the U.S. more in the eyes of the rest of the countrys of the world . To be a strong World Country and leader you must have strong laws, enforce those laws with zeal and conviction and have leaders and a government that is/are willing to do so.
Weakining a countrys' laws is a sure sign of a countrys' weakness. And now is not the time to be weak. Now is the time to be Strong and uphold the laws of the Country.
July 27, 2010 at 10:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
sandman,
Good girl !!!! And I do care very much about our nation and its policies and the direction it is going.
Not so much for myself but for all the Legal Citizens of the U.S. and the future of their children, their childrens children and their childrens, childrens, children .And those immigrants that came here legally and achieved legal U.S. citizenship . Giving those who have come here illegally any form of " AMNESTY " or an easy road to " CITIZENSHIP " would be a slap in the face, an insult and a travesty to those who did go through the long and arduous process of immigrating to the U.S. " LEGALLY " and becoming a " LEGAL U.S. CITIZEN " . I implore you, People of the U.S. to stand up, say " NO WAY " to the illegal immigrants and their sympathizers who wish to dictate or change immigration requirements or law and refuse to let them do so and stop the take over of the U.S. by illegal immigrants who have no rights in the U.S., according to Constitutional law.
July 27, 2010 at 10:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
Well methusla, There are many changes that I feel are required in any immigration reform.
1st, Mandate the use of e-verify for all employers.
2nd, Change the wording from "employers knowingly hiring an illegal" to "employers hiring an illegal".
3rd, Increase fines for employers who hire illegal immigrants from 10K to 100K.
4th, Increase the number of Border Patrol Agents the agency is authorized to hire.
5th, Increase the number of Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agents that that agency is authorized to hire.
6th, Enhance Immigration and Customs Enforcement's capabilities to track everyone who legally enters this country on a temporary visa to ensure they depart when the visa expires.
7th, Amend the Constitution of the United States to reflect that anyone who is born to foreign nationals will be a citizen of the country of their parents nationality and not be considered a native born citizen.
8th, Make it illegal to rent, sell, or loan a home or even a room in a hotel to an undocumented person anywhere in the U.S.
9th, Revamp the temporary workers visa program to allow sufficient allocations for unskilled workers to fulfill the actual needs of the American producers.
10th, Mandate emergency medical care providers to inquire the country of origin for all foreign nationals so we have someplace to send the medical bills.
There, that's 10 things that I would like to see changed with immigration reform. There are many more changes that would help to alleviate the illegal alien problem in the U.S. but those ten would go a long way.
July 27, 2010 at 10:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
REWBA
This may come as a shock to you, but I would go along with adding the 10 things you listed to the list of immigration requirements/laws . But they would all still have to be enforced by the Federal Government, with the help of State governments, if necessary and would be willing to aggressively and forcefully enforce the requirements and laws all of the immigration requirements and laws, even the ones you suggest adding to the present immigration requirements and laws. With no exceptions at all.
July 27, 2010 at 11:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
However, REWBA, what you propose may just be a little too harsh for some to swallow, such as mustangsue, skraps and others. I can just hear their thoughts now, if they read your post. " Racial profiling " !
July 27, 2010 at 11:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
geoffreym (anonymous) says...
Methusia, try this on for size. If the US Government grants amnesty to anyone in this country illegally, then I think whats fair is fair.
Here it is.Being in this country illegally is a Federal Crime. If the Gov wants to grant amnesty and forgive those Federal crimes than I have a simple suggestion that each and everyone of the 300 million legal residents of the US be given one free get out of jail card for any Federal crime we might commit in our life time. Sounds fair to me.
July 28, 2010 at 12:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Only problem is, I am not in favor of Amnesty of any kind as far as law breakers are concerned, especially illegal immigrant criminals .
July 28, 2010 at 12:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
open_eyes, PLEASE don't give them San Franciso yet, even tho that is a super idea, I haven't been there, would like to go once in my life.
I am totally against ANY amnesty, they ARE breaking the LAW!!!!! Just what are we telling our young? If you don't like something, just cry "racial"/profiling!!! Is getting so I wonder if our nation does stand for ANYTHING.Please remember to VOTE-let our voices be heard.
July 28, 2010 at 1:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
skraps (anonymous) says...
REWBA and methusla- I would actually agree with all of the 10 of the guidelines proposed. My argument is not about controlling the borders better or finding a way to seek out people breaking the law. I have not said that controlling borders and enforcing the law = racial profiling. I do agree that everyone in the nation can and SHOULD take more responsibility when it comes to better checking the information of ALL people before renting a home or employing a person. I don't want anyone living in the house next to me that isn't paying taxes OR has committed ANY felony, especially a violent one.
I would add some key points that in my mind would help generate some revenues in the way of unpaid taxes and fines so that maybe some of the cost of the 10 guidelines being proposed could be better funded. The 10th point, while a good idea in theory is probably not realistic. Yes, we need reform of the current laws to make it LESS easy for people to come here illegally.
My point is not to lessen the requirements of coming into the U.S. legally, but to give the system more resources and staffing to handle the infow of applications and cases.
The only thing that I don't agree with is sending all 11 or 12 million people back to their countries without trying to collect any taxes and fines first. What I am saying is that they are already here, albeit illegal. The 10 points you covered doesn't address what to do with the people already in our borders once they are caught being here illegal. That is where we disagree. I, for one, do not want my taxes increased dramatically to fund the deportation of 11 million people. You have said that people send their American earned money back to people in their countries, which is a true fact indeed. What if they didn't have it to send? What if instead of sending it off to wherever else, they were forced to spend it right here to stay here? And as I said, through my "idea," those people unwilling to do so should be deported.
July 28, 2010 at 8:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mustangsue (anonymous) says...
Open_Eyes wrote,"So..... who has a problem with the fingerprinting law I posted earlier? If so, why? Instead of our government just ceding part of a national park to the Mexico drug gangs, couldn't we give them San Francisco instead?
Besides, I know they'd get a much warmer welcoming reception there."
No one sees how racist this is? What exactly are you saying about SF? That's a beautiful city full of more than one or two ethnic backgrounds....so please try to think outside your saltine box!
July 28, 2010 at 10:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
mustangsue says,
....so please try to think outside your saltine box!
July 28, 2010 at 10:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Now that is a racist as well as disparaging remark if I have ever seen one.
Way to go mustangsue, your true colors are showing.
July 28, 2010 at 10:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Uh oh, did I just see mustangsue call Open_eyes a cracker?
Good point, sandman, about how our youngsters learn to whine from these giant issues in our country. Instead, they should learn how to use substantial and actual evidence. In many cases, racial profiling can indeed be proven, in employment cases for example, but not just by a traffic stop.
July 28, 2010 at 11:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mustangsue (anonymous) says...
You're right, I was just so mad, and I should've taken a breath before I posted that, please accept my apologies. But I'm still waiting to hear if anyone else was offended by Open_eyes' statement.
July 28, 2010 at 11:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
mustangsue,it is very apparent that you have NOT read past post, not only this sight but other sights. Who are you to call open-eyes a racist??? He has been able to back up his statements, have you? No! Believe me he is not the only one who thinks maybe we should give San Franciso to the drug lords and just maybe they would stay out of our "world"!!! From what I've read, they just about own it anyway. Who is racial profiling??????????????? Please try the air outside your corner, it is GREAT!!!!
July 28, 2010 at 11:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mustangsue (anonymous) says...
What do you have against San Francisco? You've never even been there. I apologized in my last post, so take a deep, cleansing breath.....
San Francisco is a clean, beautiful city, and I'm sure you'd love it there, given the chance to visit. Your "world" as you state, scares me. I've been all over this beautiful country, and I love everyone!!!:D Again, my apologies if I offended you. Remember...in with the good air, out with the bad air.
July 28, 2010 at 12:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
mustangsue, I HAVE been to San Fran, and I agree it is a beautiful city. I've also noticed that those who complain about racism the most are often those who use it, so I'll ignore your cracker remark.
My POINT about SF was the fact that they have passed laws OPENLY STATING THEY WILL VIOLATE FEDERAL IMMIGRATION LAWS.
And they're not getting sued like AZ is. Why?
REWBA, I like alot of your 10 immigration points. If you were in power, what would you plan to do if SanFran passed laws saying SCREW YOU FEDERAL GOV WE WON'T FOLLOW YOUR LAWS.
You'd ignore them and go sue AZ, right? ;-)
July 28, 2010 at 12:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
and mustangsue, not only have I been to SanFran, I've spent quite a bit of time all over this globe, in foreign countries, including Mexico.
So the "world" that I state, that scares you....... the "world" that scares me is your own stereotyped bigoted perceptions. "My world scares you". What exactly do you know about "my world"? How many miles have you walked in my shoes? Do you have any idea where I've been, what I've seen, what I've experienced? Are you truly that closed-minded? You need to open your mind a little and get rid of alot of your stereotypes.
July 28, 2010 at 12:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
I was also referring to alot of laws San Fran has tried to pass regarding drug use. Free needles, "safe injection" rooms...... such as the following link. They've tried to pass alot of laws that makes me think they'd welcome the drug lords.
http://www.harmreduction.org/article....
July 28, 2010 at 12:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
mustangsue
I believe SF has declared itself a sanctuary city.
Therefore they must want the illeagals. This is where I believe the remarks may be coming from.
Secondly did you ever answer Steve about whether or not you have read the Az. law.
If so I'll go back and try to find your answer.
I also didn't see a response as to where you lived so I could come over and mootch off of you like an illeagal.
July 28, 2010 at 12:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
Open_eyes, First off, if I were in power I wouldn't be me. I'm too honest to get elected to anything. But, if a state or a city decides it doesn't want to obey federal law...stop payment of all federally issued payments to all who reside within that zip code. Social Security Recipients, Medicare/Medicaid beneficiaries, Doctors, Hospitals, Clinics, Pharmacies, Social Service Organizations, Roads, Bridges, Federal Government Employees and Retirees, Food Inspectors, Federal Law Enforcement Agencies etc…Until they become compliant in following and or enforcing federal law. I’m sure the residents of whatever State or city whose elected officials want to be bullheaded would quickly change out their leadership.
July 28, 2010 at 12:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
irishemporia (anonymous) says...
Here's a surprise...
Judge Blocks Parts Of Arizona Immigration Law
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/st...
July 28, 2010 at 1:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
REWBA, I totally agree. Any city or state that passes laws in direct violation of federal law I would stop all Federal $$ going to them.
I figure it would probably take between 4 and 6 hours for the law to be repealed.
July 28, 2010 at 1:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/06/wor...
"San Francisco campaign tells illegal immigrants they are safe there"
"The city of San Francisco has started an advertising push with a very specific target market: illegal immigrants. And while the advertisements will come in a bundle of languages - English, Spanish, Chinese, Russian, Vietnamese - they all carry the same message: you are safe here.
In what may be the first such campaign of its kind, the city plans to publish multilanguage brochures and fill the airwaves with advertisements relaying assurance that San Francisco will not report them to the federal immigration authorities.....
The television and radio campaign will tell immigrants they have "safe access" to public services, including schools, health clinics and - perhaps most importantly - the police....
http://www.minutemanhq.com/state/read...
"San Francisco Welcomes Illegal Immigrants With New Ad Campaign"
The city of San Francisco has begun an advertising campaign targeting illegal immigrants, welcoming them to the city the bay......
The new advertising campaign features TV and radio ads, billboards, brochures, and other public reminders that San Francisco offers a respite for illegal aliens seeking access to city services without permanent resident status.
San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom, who prides San Francisco for its passage of the so-called sanctuary ordinance in 1989, said he wants illegal immigrants to understand that they are always welcome in the city, despite increased raids and deportations by Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
"We're inviting people to come out of the shadows and take advantage of services...."
July 28, 2010 at 1:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
"REWBA, I totally agree. Any city or state that passes laws in direct violation of federal law I would stop all Federal $$ going to them.
I figure it would probably take between 4 and 6 hours for the law to be repealed."
So you wouldn't mind if the Feds stoped all the $$ going to any resident of Arizona? Afterall. they are refusing to obey Federal law too. lol :-)
July 28, 2010 at 2:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
I think you need to study the AZ law a little closer REWBA......... The Arizona immigration law SB1070 was specifically designed to MIRROR Federal immigration law.
The law actually gives local officers the right to ENFORCE federal laws...... which the Feds say is their right alone to enforce (and then they don't, which is why AZ says we'll enforce your laws for you since you won't).
July 28, 2010 at 3:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
I think it will be overturned. After all, this is a snippet of how rulings have gone:
"The Justice Department’s suit directly contradicts the 2005 Supreme Court decision in Muehler v. Mena. In that case, ALL NINE justices upheld the right of local police officers to question a detained individual’s immigration status while a search warrant was being executed. The suit also flies in the face of Estrada v. Rhode Island, in which the First Circuit Court of Appeals this February upheld a state trooper’s questioning of immigration status during a traffic stop. This is the exact policy being implemented in Arizona.
Federal courts have long upheld the power of state law enforcement officers to arrest those who violate federal law, as long as it is also a violation of state law, including immigration laws. The inherent authority of local police to arrest immigration violators was outlined in 2002 in a legal memorandum issued by the Department of Justice’s Office of Legal Counsel. Yet Attorney General Holder has filed a lawsuit making claims completely at odds with an opinion issued by his own department.
Holder’s suit also conflicts directly with federal immigration law. The Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (8 U.S.C. §1373) specifically mandates that no federal, state, or local government can “prohibit, or in any way restrict, any government entity or official from sending to, or receiving from, the Immigration and Naturalization Service [now Immigration and Customs Enforcement or ICE], information regarding the citizenship or immigration status, lawful or unlawful, of any individual,” a provision upheld by the Second Circuit Court of Appeals in 1999. Congress wanted local governments to get information on immigration status from the federal government – and that is exactly what the Arizona law requires for anyone arrested in the state. Yet Holder is trying to prevent Arizona officials from checking “the citizenship or immigration status” of “any individual.”
http://townhall.com/columnists/HansAv...
But of course, we have announced that we will NOT sue sanctuary cities:
http://www.numbersusa.com/content/new...
http://www.numbersusa.com/content/new...
I like his quote about not going after those who "passively fail to comply with the law".........
Guess I might "passively" not pay taxes from now on.....
What we have in place I think is the most incompetent Attorney General in the history of this nation. JMO.
July 28, 2010 at 3:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
mustangsue, Yes, I stated I have never been to San Franciso BUT that doesn't mean I have not travelled in our nation or abroad. I spoke of "our world" NOT "my world"-those are YOUR words not mine!!!! If you had taken the time to check, when you were typing your apology concerning a post, I was typing in defense of a post. Now, step back,
take a cleansing breath, perhaps that will help clear your mind!!!!!!! (have doubts!!)
Rewba, are not the laws that AZ. were trying to be set forth much the same as our Federal Government, the same ones our Federeal Government has choosen to ignore???????? Isn't that the reason some of you feel we need to change the immigration laws? As you have stated, that now gives me a clear path not to pay the Federal Government my taxes for they AREN'T following their own laws!!!!!!
July 28, 2010 at 4:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
My take on all this is. Obama and his supporters and appointed cronies will undoubtedly stall this from being appealed and making its way to the Supreme until after the next Presidential election. In order to garner the hispanic, latino vote in order to try and get re-elected . And it would not surprise me that Obama and his cronies will try and push an illegal immigrant " Amnesty " and an illegal immigrant " Citizenship " bill through Congress in order to garner even more votes for a relection bid .
I wouldn' t vote for Obama if voting for Obama was guaranteed to save my life.
Well, Mr. President " Obama " there are already 15 million legal " Americans " out of work . Where are you planning on putting 12 million " illegal immigrants " to work after you make them citizens of the U.S. ? And after the 12 illegal immigrants become new citizens of the U.S. and are added to the 15 million long time legal citizens who are out of work and have 27 million citizens out of work legally drawing unemployment and getting public assistance, how do you plan on funding all thes out of work citizens ?
July 28, 2010 at 4:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
Like I always say...Relax, Everything Will Be Alright! lol
July 28, 2010 at 4:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
I just listened to a caller on a radio talkshow. His wife is a legal immigrant from Canada, (not a citizen yet, but following the legal pathway) - he was detailing how much money they've spent, she had to make an emergency trip back for a family illness and what she had to go thru and spend again to come back legally.
Anyway, he said he was thinking about suing the federal government for a refund. I think he has a point.
July 28, 2010 at 5:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rabblerouser (anonymous) says...
If you cross the North Korean border illegally you get 12 years hard labor.
If you cross the Iranian border illegally you are detained indefinitely, called a spy and be given a show trial.
If you cross the Afghan border illegally, you get shot.
If you cross the Saudi Arabian border illegally you will be jailed.
If you cross the Chinese border illegally you may never be heard from again.
If you cross the Venezuelan border illegally you will be branded a spy and your fate will be sealed.
If you cross the Cuban border illegally you will be thrown into political prison to rot.
If you cross the Mexican border illegally you will jailed for two years.
If you cross the United States border illegally you get the following:
A job if you want one(that a citizen should have, but that you get to steal and then force down the wages that citizens earn on the same job)
A driver's license (with an automatic ability to register to vote on the application when you receive that license in states like California)
A Social Security card (with someone else’s number, and name, on it)
Welfare if you don’t want a job (that you never contributed to, and never will contribute to, ever)
Food stamps if you don’t want a job (that you never paid for, and never will pay for)
Con't.
July 28, 2010 at 6:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rabblerouser (anonymous) says...
The ability to steal someone’s identity, get control of someone else’s bank account and use it for identification (and some extra pocket money when you need it)
Credit cards (using the credit of that person’s ID that you stole, which you will be allowed to run up and never have to pay back)
Subsidized rent or a loan to buy a house (under CRA, backed by Fannie and Freddie)
Free education (including college scholarships, and in your “own” language instead of English in some states)
Free health care (which will bankrupt hospitals all over the country as you pay nothing for that care)
The ability to “anchor” yourself in this nation (by coming over pregnant and birthing a citizen and then playing “victim” and using the child as an excuse to not be deported like you are supposed to be)
Lobbyists in Washington (and more ACLU lawyers you can count, all over the nation, defending your “rights” over the rights of United States citizens)
Billions of dollars in public documents printed in “your” language instead of English (including voting ballots)
Millions of servicemen and women defending you, who are willing to - and often do – die for your right to abuse the constitution with your free ACLU lawyers (while you support your “home “nation by sending all the money you “earn” back home and contribute nothing to this nation except stolen jobs, stolen identities, crime, and pollution)
The right to sue local governments and law enforcement for “discriminating” against you because you were actually caught, and your lawyer says it was because of “profiling” or “race” (another one of those benefits provided to you by the ACLU)
The right to belong to one of the most violent gangs in the nation (MS-13, in at least 33 states, with protection from “profiling” by the ACLU)
The right to put Border Patrol agents in prison for actually doing their job and protecting the borders or our country from drug runners (and to get immunity from prosecution to testify that they were actually doing their job when they shot you in the butt, and to even bring drugs across the border with you using that immunity)
The right to be a violent criminal and to receive “sanctuary” in places all over this country (until, and sometimes even when, you decide to rob citizens, rape women or young girls, or commit murder. Over a third of illegals arrested in this nation have been arrested at least 5 times before, but they are still here thanks to sanctuary cities, the ACLU, and liberals that continue to preach that illegals are “peaceful”, “law-abiding”, “victims”)
And finally, you have the right to proudly carry the flag of your “home” country - the one you walked out on - while you trample, disrespect, and burn the Flag of this nation, call American citizens racist, and protest that you don't get enough respect.
July 28, 2010 at 6:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rabblerouser (anonymous) says...
This is the best analogy yet!
Leave it to Maxine to come up with a solution for the economic mess that America is now in.
I bought a bird feeder. I hung It on my back porch and filled It with seed. What a beauty of A bird feeder it was, as I filled it
lovingly with seed. Within a Week we had hundreds of birds taking advantage of the continuous flow of free and
easily accessible food. But then the birds started building nests in the boards of the patio, above the table,
and next to the barbecue. Then came the poop. It was Everywhere: on the patio tile, the chairs, the table … .Everywhere!
Then some of the birds turned mean. They would dive bomb me and try to eck me even though I had fed them out of my own Pocket.
And others birds were boisterous and loud. They sat on the feeder and squawked and screamed
all hours of the day and night And demanded that I fill it When it got low on food. After a while, I couldn't even
sit on my own back porch anymore. So I took down the bird feeder and in three days the birds were gone. I cleaned
up their mess and took down the many nests they had built all over the patio.
Soon, the back yard was like It used to be .... Quiet, Serene.... And no one demanding their rights to a free meal.
Now let's see. Our government gives out free food, subsidized housing,
free medical care and free education, and allows anyone born here to be an automatic
Citizen. Then the illegal's came by the tens of thousands. Suddenly our taxes went up to pay for
free services; small apartments are housing 5 families; you have to wait 6 hours to be seen
by an emergency room doctor; your child's second grade class is behind other schools because
over half the class doesn't speak english.
Corn Flakes now come in a bilingual box; I have to 'press one ' to hear my bank
talk to me in English, and people waving flags other than 'Old Glory' are
squawking and screaming In the streets, demanding more rights and free liberties.
Just my opinion, but maybe it's time for the government to take down the bird feeder.
If you agree, pass it on; if not, Just continue cleaning up the poop .
July 28, 2010 at 6:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
rabblerouser, I might add - once an "anchor baby" reaches 21, they have the right to sponsor and bring their entire family in as permanent US residents.
July 28, 2010 at 6:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
still no reply from mustangsue about reading the Az law or her address so we can come over and mooch.
I've said it before and here it is again.
It's hard to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
July 28, 2010 at 7:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
rabblerouser, Oh! how I wish our elected officials would read this sight!!!! Would it even do any good if they did? have my doubts. Soooooo folks, PLEASE get out and vote this week(early vote) or on Aug. 3rd., next tuesday, allow our voices to be heard.
Tbluma, believe mustangsue won't reply for the answer to Steves question, is No.
Much easier to sit back and complain then to ACT!!!! Life is such a wonderment!!!
July 28, 2010 at 10:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
It's now clear that the federal government doesn't want immigration laws enforced so reform is kind of stupid at this point. If they aren't going to enforce these laws who's to say they will enforce "reformed" laws. It's kindy like when Obama said if he got health care reform passed then they would stop medicare fraud to help pay for hcr. If you can stop medicare fraud then why wait to do it till after hcr is passed? Has medicare fraud decreased since the passing of hcr? I have not heard one single word about the victories on that front and I read msnbc.com political articles daily. Surely if there had been progress made in reduction of medicare fraud they would say something since they seem to lean just a tad to the left and like to paint the pres in the most positive light possible. Any way, I wouldn't mind seeing reform at all, I think it could be a positive thing in many ways but the fact is border security will not improve because enforcement is not important to the federal government and we will have to revisit the problems caused by illegal immigration again in 10-15 years if not sooner.
July 28, 2010 at 11:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
geoffreym (anonymous) says...
Rabblerouser,
Your statement below brings up an interesting point
"Millions of servicemen and women defending you, who are willing to - and often do – die for your right to abuse the constitution with your free ACLU lawyers (while you support your “home “nation by sending all the money you “earn” back home and contribute nothing to this nation except stolen jobs, stolen identities, crime, and pollution"
Let me first say that I am the least likely of anyone on this board to be in favor of amnesty as I was misconstrued last night.
Maybe this is another option for amnesty though. Before any of these illegals can become a citizen they must prove themselves by serving a 4 year stint in our military protecting their future homeland. also A good place to learn english or get the crap beat out of you.
A couple of things were struck down today in the AZ law but one of the most important was left in tack. People forget but this law was also to stop the sanctuary city policy of the city of phoenix, Tucson and Mesa mayors. That was not struck down. So those Police Depts still have to enforce the law or we as citizens can still sue them for not doing their jobs.
How many of you know what the 287G program is. http://www.boston.com/news/nation/was... I'm not going to try and explain it but I will tell you this. One of the most successful Law enforcement Departments to use that program was the Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio. Maybe you have heard of the guy referred to as Sheriff Joe. Joe was so successful with the 287g program that Obama ordered the justice dept to yank his credentials.
July 28, 2010 at 11:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
geoffreym (anonymous) says...
I got another great idea if we go the amnesty route. Why should they just have to learn English. They should be required to get a High school Diploma. Most Mexicans do not graduate from High School
July 29, 2010 at 12:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mustangsue (anonymous) says...
geoffreym wrote-
Most Mexicans do not graduate from High School
This is RACIST and STEREOTYPING!!! HELLO?!?!?
And you're basing this on? The whole country? Certain cities in Mexico?
Or just based on your ignorant,uninformed,racist brain cells? What are you basing that ignorant fact on? Do you know the statistics of American people that haven't graduated from high school?
July 29, 2010 at 9:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
Emporia should offer Tyson a place to send their Arizona refugees in exchange for re-opening the kill floor at the plant here. I really miss the smell of rendering hides. lol
July 29, 2010 at 9:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
I have said just about all I can say on this issue, without repeating myself.
I believe I will now wait and see if Arizona challenges this ruling by way of Federal appellate courts and possibly the Supreme Court . But, that may take a while. So I may make a comment from time to time . But for now, I am going to gather info, wait and watch and see how things play out .
Have fun kiddies .
July 29, 2010 at 10:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
I agree - geoffreym, that was a stupid and biased/stereotyping remark.
Don't lower yourself to mustangsue's level.
July 29, 2010 at 10:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
mustangsue
Once again you pull the racist card out of your "salteen" box.
Maybe geofferym was refering to the graph on this site:
http://connection-collegeboard.com/09...
Granted it is dated 2005 but after looking for 1/2 hour it's all I could find.
If you look at the graduation rate from high schools, Mexico stands at just under 50%.
The United States is just under 80%.
Both are pretty sad.
But based on this study, geofferym was correct in saying "most don't graduate high school".
If you would research some on your own maybe you can find a newer study that shows better results.
July 29, 2010 at 10:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
I also learned that schooling is free and mandatory until the ninth grade.
July 29, 2010 at 10:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
mustangsue should have said "Soapbox" because everyone (regardless of race) has one of those to stand on. jmo
July 29, 2010 at 10:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
LOL,
I tried to stand on a soap box once.
All I got out of it was a flat piece of cardboard, and a sprained ankle.
July 29, 2010 at 11:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
I would still find a better way to rephrase geoffreym's remark even if factually correct. Maybe next time you could supply the statistics to go along with your statement. Just a suggestion.
July 29, 2010 at 11:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Thanks Steve, I also started looking for the stats on how many people graduate High School in Mexico but I had other things to do. I bet that mustangsue is going to get on and say how those numbers are racist. What I don't understand is why people are against people who come her getting an education and learning English. It benefits us and them(the immigrants). When I worked at Logjam Lumber back in the day we would hire temporary help during the busy seasons. Quite a few of these folks were from other countries originally and only spoke their native language. It was a little difficult to work around this obvious obstacle but we made it work. As I have stated in the past I made friends with people even though we had no idea what each other was saying. lol Many of these folks were good hard workers and returned year after year. We usually hired people from the temporary work force but could not hire some really good workers because they didn't have the working knowledge of the English language that is needed to be a full time employee. We had work that they could do occasionally with out English skills but not really year round. I learned a lot from my years working at Logjam Lumber. I reckon I got a perspective from working there that most of you people will never get in your office sittin' on your biscuit not willin' to risk it. I think .... no .... I know it would be good for people migrating to this country to try to learn English and I don't see how getting a High School diploma could possibly be a bad thing either. What do I know? I'm just an uneducated old school lumber jack.
July 29, 2010 at 12:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
seriouslyfolks, even sittin' on our biscuit in our office...... we find it difficult to understand many of the people we converse with on the phone who's English skills are.......... not that strong.........
July 29, 2010 at 12:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
I didn't mean to insult people that work in offices. I was just sayin' that I have a different perspective on this than some people. Rewba pointed out the fact that for some it is difficult to learn a second language and it is impossible for some. I was just pointing out that it is beneficial to learn if you can. I doubt that anybody in this country now that doesn't speak English would disagree with me that it would be easier if they spoke English. I'm sure I will get lamblasted for being racist. I can't imagine why, but just wait, it's coming. In ...5 ... 4 ... 3 ... 2....
July 29, 2010 at 12:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
geoffreym (anonymous) says...
Read the article, hardly racist. I don't call you a racist. Instead, I like to say, it takes one to know one. So welcome one and all racist mustangsue.
http://www.ppic.org/content/pubs/rb/R...
July 29, 2010 at 1:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Still, geoffreym, there are different ways to get one's point across. Remember we live in an age where anything and everything is twisted and construed as being racist.
Right now I am typing this on a black keyboard with white lettering - I presume that is symbolic of white suppression of blacks (white on a black background). Racist keyboard company. I would switch to my other keyboard, which is black lettering on a white keyboard, but racism works both ways, so I'll just leave it to those who see everything in white vs nonwhite and let them occupy their time while I get on with life. ;-)
July 29, 2010 at 1:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
I used to have a white keyboard with black lettering. It always looked so grimy.
July 29, 2010 at 4:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
Yep, everything is construed as being racist but the last time I knew we all bleed "red", even our various troops that are defending our rights or maybe that has changed and I just wasn't aware. Gee, I feel so free knowing I don't have to obey any of our federal laws!!!! Yes! get on with life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Will have so much more money NOT paying Federal taxes!!!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe I can go to San Franciso!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-)
July 29, 2010 at 4:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Sandman,
Take it from a fellow traveler, it is plenty cool in San. Fran this time of year, (at night). It's a nice place to visit, but I can't imagine living there. There are way to many nut job liberals living there. But you can smoke a joint about anywhere you want, even in the bars. Just don't light up a camel. ;-) Top of the Mark usually has good live music.
July 29, 2010 at 7:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Gosh, create, that's about the most blatantly racist thing I've ever heard you say - LOL.
But then again I just found out today that not only are blacks sort of mongrels, but they know more about it than whites. Gosh, most every white person I know can tell me most of their ethnic heritage and the breakdown of it (including me - 1/2 German, the rest a mixture of 4 others).
July 29, 2010 at 8:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
Steve_Corbin, Gee, that is so good to know, I can smoke a joint, that is really high on my bucket list!!!!! :-)
Oh, open_eyes, I'm so sorry, just which half is German? Also, is one arm,one culture, the other another and then you go to the legs. Gee, you poor thing, that is why your feet hurt with only one sock. Which foot HAD the sock? Now that is really racist!!!!!!!!!
July 29, 2010 at 9:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reality (anonymous) says...
Check out this link, taxpayers get to pay for this guy for the next 19 years, at which time he will be deported back to Guatemala. Yeah, I am ok with the Arizona law.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_cr...
July 30, 2010 at 8:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
reality, the reality is that his prison stay in the U.S. will be far better and easier than his life was in Guatemala. That may be the reason for that cheesy grin in the picture.
July 30, 2010 at 8:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reality (anonymous) says...
I know, doesn't make it any less infuriating.
July 30, 2010 at 9:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Yeah, we have people begging our Supreme Court to let them stay at Guantanamo indefinitely.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/25/opi...
Well at least they're CONSIDERING ending "anchor babies"...... but I'm not holding my breath...
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/...
July 30, 2010 at 10:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rabblerouser (anonymous) says...
Obama and Holder taking on Arizona's SB1070
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsH8xv...
August 14, 2010 at 6:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )