City commissioners want more proof that requiring city employees to live within Lyon County is hindering recruitment and hiring.
The board at its Wednesday study session looked at a proposal to amend the city’s residency requirement to allow employees to live within a 90-minute drive of Emporia. Public-works employees, however, would be required to live within 30 minutes of the city.
The proposal came at the request of officials at the Emporia Fire Department and Emporia Police Department. Fire Chief Jack Taylor told commissioners that he found it difficult to hire paramedics with the current requirements.
“Paramedics can work anywhere in the state of Kansas,” Taylor told commissioners.
And, because the fire department staffs with employees working 24 hours on then 48 hours off, it’s common for firefighters to hold second jobs. For paramedics, particularly, those jobs may be with ambulance services.
The 90-minute-commute proposal offered by City Manager Matt Zimmerman would stretch as far as the western edge of the Kansas City metropolitan area.
One issue, Zimmerman said, is attracting employees to Emporia who have spouses with jobs elsewhere. The proposal, for instance, would allow a couple to live in Ottawa with commutes to Kansas City and Emporia for jobs.
That’s an idea that Commissioner Jeff Longbine strongly opposed.
“We spend a tremendous amount of man-hours in this community attracting jobs,” he said. “This goes completely against all of those efforts.”
The residency policy doesn’t create turnover, he said.
“If Emporia is not the type of community people want to live in, that’s the problem we need to address,” he said, “not the residence policy of the city.”
Commissioner Kevin Nelson agreed the policy change would have a negative impact to the city.
“If they’re living in Olathe, Kansas City, Wichita or wherever,” he said, “that’s where they’re spending their money. They’re not going to haul our groceries back home.”
But Commissioner Julie Johnson and Mayor Jim Kessler said they thought times had changed and the city’s policies should reflect that.
Johnson, for instance, recalled moving to Emporia in 1967 when her husband was offered a position at Emporia State University.
“I moved here without even thinking about it,” she said.
Now, she noted, more women have careers of their own that may not be able to move to Emporia.
“If we want to respond to what the world is today,” she added, “maybe we need to change the policy.”
Commissioner Bobbie Agler requested more information.
“It really bothers me that we don’t have firm information and statistics that say this is an issue.”
The group directed city staff to provide documentation how much the current policy is costing the city, whether from losing employees or not being able to recruit employees.
In other business, commissioners discussed how to handle funds from the sale of Lake Kahola that are designated for a special parks fund. The monies are deposited with the Emporia Community Foundation to earn interest. The difficulty is predicting how much income will be available for budgeting purposes.
The city earlier committed to only reinvest 85 percent of each year’s earnings in projects, leaving a 15 percent cushion and not touching the principal.
Ken Calhoun of ECF told the board that many groups determine a percentage of the year-end income that they will use for budgeting.
“There’s no good date to pick,” Calhoun said. “Dec. 31 doesn’t fit your financial year ... but it would give staff six months to plan spending.”
Commissioners directed city staff to bring an ordinance to an action meeting for approval.
The board also looked at new drafts of the 2011 budgets for the general fund, multi-year fund, small funds and utility funds. They will see at least one more set of drafts before taking action on the budgets in August.
justaflushaway (anonymous) says...
wouldn't you know that kessler and johnson would think it would OK, you two really need to wake the hell up. I agree with Nelson about spending money, and what would happen if you needed to call in off duty people to work a problem???
taylor. are you going to take responsible if that would ever happen, or are you just going to say that if they are off duty they are NOT required to come and help in case of any emergency, yes you will say that, And by the way why is it at every week now you are showing up with all kinds of ideas,, you getting ready to retire and are you setting up your buddies before you leave??? you keep my last comment in mind, and zimmerman maybe you should take notice also.
July 16, 2010 at 12:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
uh, it may be something else that makes hiring paramedics difficult.
low wages combined with a high sales tax and property tax?
Management?
just a thought.
July 16, 2010 at 6:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
Who wants to sell their home, pull their children out of school, pack all their household goods and move two hours away for a 30K job? If you need to fill a vacancy, hire the best qualified based upon knowledge, skills and abilities. Where they choose to live is their right as an American. Employees are not slaves. Why not pay your employees in script that can only be redeemed at the company store? It's a great day in Emporia! :-)
July 16, 2010 at 7 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
cxf6642 (anonymous) says...
These residency rules are the norm across the country. Munical employees are always required to live in the place of their employment.
The reason that this is coming up is because Emporia is losing the paramedics to Ottawa/Franklin County Ambulance or other places as they pay more. They start in Emporia, the City pays the cost of training, they fulfill their end of the bargain (staying on X years) and move on to greener pastures. Emporia is a feeder/training place for other departments. The reason it is coming up in Emporia is because the other locations won't budge on their residency requirements for their fire/ambulance personnel.
The Paramedics and Firefighters are willing and wanting to work for both which is noble and I understand what kind of pay they recieve (or in cases, don't recieve) - but can't because both places have the same residency requirements. So which place buckles? Who loses the property tax and revenue from their employees?
The leadership needs to evaluate the lack of on-call or ability to call in personnel for an emergency. What happens with scheduling conflicts between departments? If the 24 on, 48 off is necessary for the Firemen and Paramedics to remain alert and healthy, do you want them moonlighting like this? Are you putting the townspeople in jeopardy? Do you have to pay benefits for personnel moon-lighting from other departments on another town's insurance policy?
If you want to say that they can't afford to continue paying for Paramedic training that is continuously leaving the department, that could be a good discussion. If you want to admit that trained personnel are not willing to come to a small, rural town like Emporia (or stay in it), it would be valid too. But there are many angles to this discussion.
July 19, 2010 at 3:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
I hate to bring this up. If the City leaders and those who influence City leaders had not wasted ( spent ) a ton of money on non-essential or frivilous items, that someone wanted instead of needed, could it be possible that the City could have, possibly paid the Paramedics a more competitive wage ? Just a thought.
July 19, 2010 at 4:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
emporian (anonymous) says...
There are several places that are hiring paramedics right now. Sedgwick County EMS, Dickinson County EMS, Olathe Fire, Pottawatamie Tribal Fire Department, Johnson County Med Act, and Riley County EMS . Most have a similar starting wage, but none have a residency requirement. If you were a paramedic looking for a job where would you want to work? A place that doesn't tell you where to live, or one that will make you move.
July 19, 2010 at 5:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oops (anonymous) says...
I think there is another angle to this arguement. How often do the police and fire department have to hire personnel? Seems like they are both always trying to hire folks. If people are leaving your organization like rats jumping off a sinking ship something is wrong. I think this city has the attitude that "its my way or the highway" and obviously people in at least our public safety divisions are choosing the highway. And it appears folks definetely aren't knocking down the door to get in here.
July 19, 2010 at 9:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
Part of fire and law enforcement work includes being subject to call ins in the event of emergency situations when additional help is needed asap. When these events take place, they can't wait 1-2hrs for a worker to drive in from KC, Topeka, Wichita etc, nor for the time it would take to drive in from Burlington, Osage City, CG, or Cottonwood.
I don't think that we should hire anyone State, County, or City, that lives outside the agency jurisdiction and or tax base.
July 20, 2010 at 9:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mightyhornet (anonymous) says...
So what happens if Emporia is struck by a large tornado or other disaster and a large group of the police officers and rescuers are victims themselves and can't help? Reminds me of Greensburg a few years ago.
July 20, 2010 at 10:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Let's talk sales tax !
Click on readers topics on the forums page.
July 20, 2010 at 10:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
Say the rule is changed. What if 90% of the fire department moves to KCKS when a major fire disaster occurred, more help would be needed yet only ten firemen were local at the time? Yes, they would call in area fire fighters to give mutual aid assistance, which also takes time and costs those small departments budget money that is not recovered. I've lived in Lyon Co for 46 yrs, we've had many such fire situations every year, pasture burning season comes to mind. We've never had a tornado that prevented the fire department from being adequately staffed mightyhornet and most likely won't. Having paramedics on staff is great, but changing the rules to allow them to live elsewhere to moonlight in other departments is a bad idea.
July 21, 2010 at 10:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
The law requires an employer to compensate employees who are "on call". Are we going to obey the law?
July 21, 2010 at 4:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mightyhornet (anonymous) says...
Moonlighting is not the issue. The issue is being able to hire the best person for the job without restrictions.
July 21, 2010 at 11:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
"And, because the fire department staffs with employees working 24 hours on then 48 hours off, it’s common for firefighters to hold second jobs. For paramedics, particularly, those jobs may be with ambulance services."
July 21, 2010 at 11:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oops (anonymous) says...
I believe it is called mutual aid for reason. They mutually help each other. If Olpe asks for Emporia, Emporia will send what it can and vice versa. That is why they call it mutual.
As I said in the other article I don't believe the city has mandatory callback for emergency services. I believe a big lawsuit was awarded against the city in the 80s (if memory serves me correctly), so I think callback is a non issue.
July 22, 2010 at 12:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
joecitizen (anonymous) says...
there are a meriad of issues involved with this. My son works for the dept, and has told me about the problems.
We used to get alot more applicants than we do now, and more of our own Emt's with community ties wanted to move up to paramedic. That was before the city's new wage study restructered the pay scale, and got rid of the sign-on bonus for earning your paramedic.
We also have a lot of paramedics (paid for by the dept.) with the dept. who have moved into capt, or admin positions. the fact of the matter, is that they could be doing patient care.
Some of the medics the dept. does have, are bitter, jaded, complainers. They make 4-5 dollars an hour more than everyone else, and constantly complain about being overworked. Hello, your job is Patient care, that's what you do. We do have some awesome medics, who want to be on every call, and want to evaluate every patient. But there are just as many that are lazy, and just complain. the complaining got so loud, that the medics now have there own vehicle to respond in (incredibly inefficient) and are aloud to opt out of calls based on the initial info from dispatch. which is only as good as the info they can get from the scene, which is often dead wrong, and opinion of bystanders with zero medical knowledge.
the answer is to find good local people with strong ties to the community, and mold them into what you want. train them to be a firefighter, send them to school to be an EMT, and then Paramedic. pay them a competitive wage, and they will stay.
July 22, 2010 at 8:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )