After a brief study session Wednesday morning, city commissioners continued to narrow down and prioritize both short- and long-term goals for Emporia — goals they hope will outline the way forward for at least the next 20 years.
With the help of facilitators Bill Barnes and Raffaele DeVito, both professors in the School of Business at Emporia State University, commissioners spent the morning outlining their priorities, both for the upcoming year and the years following. Building on information gathered at two previous meetings, Barnes and DeVito organized a list of short- and long-term goals grouped into five categories:
• Develop and improve the city’s infrastructure
• Develop and improve relations between the city and ESU
• Develop and sustain the downtown business area
• Diversify and increase the number of jobs in the Emporia area
• Create a vision for Emporia
In an earlier goal-setting meeting, Barnes had stressed the importance of having a way to measure whether a goal has successfully been reached. Also important is to have a timeline for the goals. To that end, commissioners Wednesday were given a list of goals for each category and were then asked to prioritize each list in order of importance.
“The reason we came to this point is to recognize that a number of these are inescapable, they have to be addressed immediately, within months or within the year,” DeVito said. “And then we definitely want to make sure we get to talking about where we’re going to be down the road, long-term.”
The short-term goals were identified as those the commission wants to accomplish in the coming twelve months. The list included goals such as completing the water main project on Commercial Street by the end of September; developing a joint group between the city and ESU to increase communication and improve dialogue by the end of April; working with Emporia Main Street to market downtown; presenting the renewal of the industrial sales tax to voters; and developing and implementing a property maintenance program with minimal housing standards to improve the community’s housing stock.
“Some of them in the short term are creating a plan,” Barnes said. “Because you need that plan in order to create your implementing steps to move forward, so your implementation is probably long-term, and your short-term is making sure the plan’s in place.”
One goal that involved much discussion was improving the city’s relationship with ESU. The goal involves creating a group comprised of students, city officials, faculty and school administration to work together. Commissioner Jim Kessler mentioned the Program to Improve Emporia, a group of students, led by Harrison George, who has been working for about a year on improving relations with the city.
“He’s already started this organization,” Kessler said. “It’s a student group ... and the things they’ve been working on is exactly what we’ve been talking about as far as communication with the campus community.”
One way to open up the dialogue, Commissioner Julie Johnson said, would be to invite members of the group to a study session.
“This is a group that obviously has some ideas, and that would be a good way to open up and get it started,” she said.
Commissioners agreed to try to work something out by the time the students leave for the summer.
Creating a vision for Emporia that will serve as a guide in the years to come also was discussed extensively. Some goals in that category include creating a task force and taking public comment in a community-wide forum.
“There’s a wide spectrum of people in the community,” DeVito said. “They have different visions, but there are some commonalities there. So the vision is there. Getting at it is complicated, but not so complicated. It’s a matter of the communication links with various groups in the community.”
The goal is to have the task force and a plan for moving forward in place sometime later this year.
“What I envision is getting a broad spectrum of input and developing a plan that would not only guide this organization but would guide other organizations within the community on what we want to be 20 years from now,” said Mayor Jeff Longbine.
DeVito said for the community to grow, it’s important to tap into its strengths. One example he provided is the idea to use Emporia’s position as the founding city of Veterans Day to draw people in, perhaps with a museum to honor veterans.
“As a destination, could Emporia be a veterans’ museum?” he asked. “All those things that would draw people off the road, not just to stop at a restaurant but stop and see these things.”
Funding for such a project could come from a number of different outside sources, he said.
At the end of the process, Barnes pointed out the similarities in the separate commissioners’ ideas for Emporia.
“Look how much you were all of the same mindset when you looked at priorities,” he said. “There wasn’t a lot of difference.”
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
These liberal college people that have all the ansewers for the city commissioners have one finger pointing at the city commission and three fingers pointing back at themselves. I remember telling Bill Barnes that NAFTA was no good for America when he was manager at Modine and look what happened. Bill has a wonderful job with the government, smart guy, but don't put all this baloney, this liberal baloney on the taxpayers of Emporia when ESU has it's hands full.
February 25, 2010 at 11:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Wait, wait, wait,
• Develop and improve the city’s infrastructure
• Develop and improve relations between the city and ESU
• Develop and sustain the downtown business area
• Diversify and increase the number of jobs in the Emporia area
• Create a vision for Emporia
And establish criteria to know if these goals are being met. These are good things regardless of what side of the political spectrum you stand on.
Reddog,
I realize your an older fella, but you seriously need to put politics aside at times, you don't have a monopoly on what is right or wrong, and to be honest, people that think like you ARE the real problem, you don't have the world figured out, so stop acting like it.
February 26, 2010 at 12:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
paulkersey (anonymous) says...
I feel the only way to get real change in any government (local or federal) is a forcible takeover through arms.
February 26, 2010 at 12:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Paulkersey,
As a responsible firearms owner and advocate, thanks for that. Statements like that just help those that would see our 2nd amendment rights denigrated, bravo sir, you win the pinhead of the day.
February 26, 2010 at 1:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
I only hope that the very 1st priority on the list of both long term and short term goals will/ should be " Diversify and increase the number of jobs in the Emporia area ", because with out diversity and an increase in the number of jobs, reasonably good paying jobs, the present number of taxpayers in Emporia and Lyon County will never be able to afford to pay for the rest of it.
I also believe that the 2nd priority on the list of both long and short term goals should be a " Sensible, affordable vision for Emporia, not be so " Grandiose " as to bankrupt the City, County and taxpayers . "
In my opinion if these are the first to things to be accomplished, then the rest may be easier to accomplish .
February 26, 2010 at 8:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
paulkersey (anonymous) says...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYLXgH...
February 26, 2010 at 8:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
koalemos (anonymous) says...
When the military cannot explain failure using the English language they come up with a catch phrase designed to divert attention from the failure and focus attention on strategery.
Quit looking at yesterday! We are concentrating on a "Way Forward" so shut up about our failures and focus on the "Way Forward" with us.
February 26, 2010 at 8:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Oh goodoleboy...reddog is just concerned the property maintenance program might somehow interfere with the profits to be made from placing people in shacks to live.
I won't even legitimize paulkersey's comment with a response.
February 26, 2010 at 9:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mslater (Matt Slater) says...
I don't teach business at the college, but here are my five things for the "way forward."
*Pay off the 60+ Million dollar debt the City has.
*Stop spending more money than is being brought in, and NEVER approve an unbalanced budget.
*Start using the phrases "I'm sorry, we can't afford that," and "We don't REALLY need that."
*Act on above phrases
*No more loans!
Don't worry about which way to steer the ship until you get the holes in the bottom plugged.
Matt
February 26, 2010 at 10:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
Whoever doesn't know the past of Emporia, has very little understanding of the present and no vision of the future. To understand a town you must know it's memories. The same is true for a nation. I think a little rebellion is good and like Thomas Jefferson said, it's like a thunderstorm in the atmosphere. If it was not for a bunch of local business people that joined together in the 1950's to promote industrial revenue bonds, we would be way behind other towns in the state of Kansas. One of the things I have fought for is a more reasonable building code so more business will come to Emporia. When Braum's Ice creame came to Emporia, they told me that they had a bad experience and they were going to build a second store near the enterchange but the city would not let them put up a sign to attract people from the enterstate. Just think of the lost taxes on property and sales for 10 years. The reason we have 2 people at large on the building trades board is because I campaigned for it. One of the reasons we have a full time economic development director is because I campaigned for it against the wishes of the Chamber of Commerce. I will continue to do everything I can to make this a better community and bring jobs to Emporia and help local business expand. A nation that socializes the losses and privatizes the profits will not endure. A friend of mine in Las Vegas just got a loan modifaction for 2 and one half percent for 40 years, why does the taxpayers of conservative Kansas have to foot this bill. In these harsh economic times, we don't need to be adding on more government rules and regulations and more government people to the payrolls or this town is going down. You might not believe this but many of the people coming to work for Hill's don't want to live in Emporia.
February 27, 2010 at 6:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
reddog
" A nation that socializes the losses and privatizes the profits will not endure."
That is an interesting statement. Can you please elaborate a little on just what you mean by that?
And then this....
"In these harsh economic times, we don't need to be adding on more government rules and regulations and more government people to the payrolls or this town is going down. You might not believe this but many of the people coming to work for Hill's don't want to live in Emporia."
How does this tie exclusively to Emporia and whether or not people want to come here to live?
February 27, 2010 at 6:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
What we have in this town is a cross between liberal political huming birds and a door bell. It all adds up to a real hum-dinger. Emporia needs change, not loose change.
February 27, 2010 at 9:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
NEWS FLASH, there are some exciting things on the front burner for Emporia. Stay tuned.
February 27, 2010 at 9:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Just what I thought....just a bunch of catchy-sounding phrases that have no meaning to you or anybody else.
February 27, 2010 at 9:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
koalemos (anonymous) says...
Believe it or not, People who come to Emporia for the first time see this town differently that those of us who have lived here all our lives.
One of the first things someone moving here for employment must accomplish is to find a house to live in. That is a real challenge because all of the available rentals are eyesores and surrounded by what can only be described as ghetto.
Sure there are homes on the market but the asking price is always too high for the low wage jobs being offered. People always say we need to attract business so there will be jobs but what good is a job in a town with no decent place for a family to live?
You shouldn't spend more than 25% of your net income on housing. The average salary for jobs in Emporia, Kansas is $24430 so after taxes that leaves a net of about $17000. 25% of that is $4250 or $355 per month. Now go out and find a rental for $355 per month here in Emporia and then ask yourself if you would move your family into that pile of crap.
February 27, 2010 at 9:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
Biscuitboy, who do you suppose is paying for all these loan modifications? Would you like to have a 2% fixed rate on your home for 40 years? To pay for all this, we have to tax the people that are prudent and conservative. What we are doing is delaying the crash. The next bubble will be the double bubble and people know its coming if we continue down this social fascism style of government.
February 27, 2010 at 9:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
reddog
Is it true? People might not want to move to Emporia precisely because of overpriced real estate and slum-lord rental property. Isn't that where you make your living?
February 27, 2010 at 9:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
And how does that relate to privitizing profits? I thought privatizing profits was what this country was about?
February 27, 2010 at 9:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
Biscutboy, go to Ralph Nadner on the G 20, Healthcare reform.
February 27, 2010 at 9:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
koalemos (anonymous) says...
reddog, You forget. Prudent conservatives don't pay taxes. Middle class working stiffs pay taxes and then they pay the slum lord for a piece of crap house with overloaded electrical circuits, leaky roof, and a energy hog furnace heating an uninsulated drafty box that eats more of their hard earned money in heating bills. What little money is left goes to purchase food for the family leaving just enough to pay the minimum due on a maxed out credit cards. No wonder people want to move away.
Now my question for you is...Are you part of the problem or are you hoping to win the lottery so you can move too?
February 27, 2010 at 9:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
Biscuitboy, do you think that someone ought to bail you out for being stupid? And if you are successful and provide a lot of jobs, is it right to tax that person to pay for all the dead-beats. What might happen in October is a complete collapse of the economy and no election will be held but 95% of congress will be removed and then this great country can start a new.
February 27, 2010 at 10:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
WOW.....Ok.....you are out there somewhere buddy....I'm just not at all sure where. When that happens I will come back and see you...until then I think when I see you coming I'll just move over to the other side of the street. ...Know what I mean?
February 27, 2010 at 11:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
This kinda reminds me of that guy Nostradamus......if you throw out enough wild crap sooner or later you'll get close enough to claim a hit....whether true or not.
February 27, 2010 at 11:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justthefacts (anonymous) says...
Biscuitboy,
You are correct about reddog: even a broken clock is right twice a day but by no credit to its insight. It just simply sits there and doesn't move.
February 27, 2010 at 11:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
justthefacts
I'm a thinkin your right!!
February 27, 2010 at 11:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
Go to Lindsey Williams on Alex Jones and find out what the elite have in store for you. This is not a joke.
February 27, 2010 at 12:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
Go to Gerald Celente on the Alex Jones Show "Economic Armageddin." Listen on line on your cell phone 512 646 5000. A wealth of information.
February 27, 2010 at 1:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
He must get paid to advertise lol, real estate market ain't what it was.
February 27, 2010 at 1:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
I just sold one yesterday for 65,000 less than the original asking price. When you buy in this market, you are betting on the future of Emporia. This is what I said to people who bought investment properties and land in the last downturn in the real estate market in the 1980's. Guess what some of these folks did pretty good. 90% of all millionaires in the USA made it in real estate. I just found out today that the new dog food plant will probably add an additional 20 acers under one roof in about 2 years. Folks, we have a lot to be thankful for and some hard working city commissioners and city manager. I give'em hell every once in a while, but that's what a good coach has to do. Lets win one for the gipper.
February 27, 2010 at 6:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
Have you ever heard the OH NO BIRD-oooooh noooooo!!!! KU just got beat, Boone Pickens picked our pocket again.
February 27, 2010 at 6:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
"......many of the people coming to work for Hill's don't want to live in Emporia."
So, what you're saying is that they will be looking at hiring on Emporians who want to stay here for under-management positions and start grooming them for the upper management positions so they can bail in five years?? Good!! They can pay some taxes and buy some goods while they are here and then when they are gone, someone who wants to invest in the town will still be here, using their salary and looking to hire some more qualified locals. That's what happened with Caterpillar/Camoplast to some degree and it's been good.
February 27, 2010 at 7:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
Sounds good to me.
February 27, 2010 at 9:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
The Vetern's Memorial might be a good idea. Emporia with its central location and front porch to the Flint Hills could become a meeting place for Veterans reunions for all branches of the Military. Everyday could be Veterans Day in Emporia. I think a huge grant could be obtained for special recognition to minorities [like the Indian code no one could crake in World War 2.] Perhaps a veterans task force could be formed. Special events could be organized throughout the year to honor all veterans.
February 27, 2010 at 10:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
We need to crackdown a good grant writer like Dr. John Drew.
February 27, 2010 at 10:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
This Memorial Museum could be the best tourism idea since Clint Boyer and Paul Terry and a whole lot of other folks to numerous to mention.
February 27, 2010 at 10:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
The number 1 industry in America is tourism and we need to get on board. I'm pushing tourism, but I have ran into a lot of petty politics. If we can get the ticks out of politics, we will prosper.
February 27, 2010 at 10:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
Go to B-Cast Interviews Dr. John C Drew on Obama's Early Marxist Years.
February 27, 2010 at 11:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
reddog, If you can stop slapping yourself on the back for all that you claim to have done for Emporia and yourself I might add, you may want to take a look at the following site and read a little about Gerald Celente .
"Gerald Celente is a FRAUD "
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/for...
February 28, 2010 at 12:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
reddog, did you or do you give em hell, the excellent City Commissioners and excellent City Manager, that is, for spending more than is recieved in revenue, as well as operating, by having to borrow money to operate at all ?
And do you have any idea how large a building would be that would cover 20 acres under one roof ? FYI, 20 acres consists of 873,000 square feet ! Now that would be one very large building, indeed.
I don' t know about you reddog, if you smoke, you had better quit, if you drink, you had better quit .
February 28, 2010 at 12:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
reddog, here is another site you may want to visit, concerning Lindsey Williams .
Re: [political-research] Lindsey Williams Debunked
http://www.mail-archive.com/political...
February 28, 2010 at 12:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
reddog, here is another site that may be of interest to you.
Why is radio host Alex Jones affiliated with an organization that promotes global government ?
http://doctrinewars.blogspot.com/2006...
Man I think you need to develope a new listening criteria, instead of listening to all this super radical conservative gargage .
February 28, 2010 at 1:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
OOOPs, there goes my spelling, again.
February 28, 2010 at 1:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
I wouldn't put a whole lot of faith in Edward Champion, a secular intellectual shock jock, although to his credit he is challenging Obama's platform.
February 28, 2010 at 1:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
Go to Wall Street's Naked Swindle by Matt Taibbi. If you don't think the markets are rigged, your kind of naive.
February 28, 2010 at 1:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
The existing building of Hill's is 20 acres under one roof and you can call Kent at 342 1600 to confirm.
February 28, 2010 at 1:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
Alex Jones was never a member of the RSICC. Go to Alex Jones Fall of the Republic. This is a good one exposing the Wall Street Bankers. Its about 3 and a half hours long but you will learn a wealth of knowledge. Sure you might want to filter some of it out.
February 28, 2010 at 1:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
"Guess what some of these folks did pretty good. 90% of all millionaires in the USA made it in real estate."
Wrong, that number is closer to half that:
There are more than 7 millionaires in America. 46% invest in real estate and if I were to take a guess, probably less than 3 million that made their money through real estate investing which could simply be just buying a primary residence and seeing it appreciate in the last tens of years.
Do you fact check anything you say? Apparently not. Either way your claim of 90% is about as believable as death panels.
" I just found out today that the new dog food plant will probably add an additional 20 acers under one roof in about 2 years"
We were supposed to get a Lowes, and a Can plant, Menu was supposed to expand, a bio-diesel plant, I'll believe it when it happens. Too many things that will 'probably" happen that never materialized here. Emporia has done miserably attracting new industry here.
February 28, 2010 at 1:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
Check other cities are size, I think were doing pretty good.
February 28, 2010 at 2:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
On a lighter note, go to 92.3 now-New York's hit music channel.
February 28, 2010 at 2:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
On a lighter note, the most important things in life aren't things.
February 28, 2010 at 3:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Jeez, it's no damn wonder why we can never get anywhere in this town. This article was a good place to begin what could be a very intelligent discussion about goals and problems we Emporians see. Many posters really do have good ideas. As I read the article, I looked forward to the discussion that would follow. Surprise! Instead it turned immediately into a crazy hair-pulling-teeth-gnashing fiasco.
biscuitboy, you nailed it on reddog and his catchy phrases that don't mean anything.
reddog, can't you just converse or discuss with original thoughts and not trick talk? You did it once and I even read it and understood it. It actually made sense.
Can you flipping do that? Can you just calm down and stop all your stream of consciousness rambling that you get from other web sites? You are usually the first to post and that just causes the rest of us to jump on your case then the really good thoughts are lost in the fracas.
Damn, this thread is lost and I had a good idea too. Let me try again...
February 28, 2010 at 7:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Emporia’s position as the founding city of Veterans Day might give us something of an edge. While we are only 50 miles away from Veteran's Services in Topeka, what reason do we have that we can't look into building something for Veteran's Health Services here in Emporia?
Moran is on the Veterans' Affairs committee and he has been influential in establishing Veterans' health services in places like western Kansas and other areas too far from Topeka for vets to travel.
The building is already there if we could somehow hook into the surgical hospital that didn't work out. Just a thought there. It could start Emporia on its way to being more of a place for fundamental veterans' needs than just a place to have occasional celebrations. Such a place would certainly provide jobs in the health care industry and as a plus, partner with education already taking place at Newman's School of Nursing and the Flinthills Tech College.
The trick is to hook into things that already exist so that you're not saddled with building from scratch.
Another thought. Can we do something about the downtown looking like an eyesore? There for awhile we were beginning to look pretty nice. Now it looks slummy again. I speak in particular about the Winter Furniture building. What in the world is going on with the windows in that place? Can't they find a more pleasant way of marketing their goods? Does a second-hand place have to look so shabby? We're beginning to look like a border town.
February 28, 2010 at 8:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
create,
We are only 50 miles from a 1st rate veterans facility, I use it often, and have nothing but the best to say about it.
The VA health team visits Emporia every Monday for local vets,
Blood and lab tests, doctor consults, prescription service are all provided locally. just about everything except x-rays and surgery, and again by a 1st rate staff. I think it's pretty cost effective the way they are doing it now.
As far as downtown Emporia looking slummy, I am sorry.
Many of us try with limited resources but if all the building/business owners don't do their part it will never get better.
My wife and I do get tired of sweeping trash and pulling weeds, planting flowers etc., when at least two of our neighboring businesses can't even keep the trash from flowing out of their undersized dumpsters and blowing all over the area. maybe the Gazette could do a story about the downtown area with pics of the offenders?
February 28, 2010 at 9:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Oh and by the way, Main Street is taking apps for downtown garden adoption again.
February 28, 2010 at 9:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
reddog,
I do wish you would stop smoking that bad " weed " and stop listening to whatever it is you are listening to and come back to reality.
FYI, the existing Hills pet food plant is not a building that is 20 acres large, under one roof. The present Hills pet food plant has only 300,000 square feet under one roof, which is 2.9 acres, not 20 acres, the whole facility, including parking, etc. takes up, maybe 20 acres. Need proof, here it is, Hill’s Pet Nutrition announced this morning it would build a 300,000 square-foot plant in Emporia, the third pet food plant to locate in Emporia. Please, Please come in out of the " Fog " and return to reality.
February 28, 2010 at 10:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
I agree with create about the downtown looking poorly, however I must commend Steve and his wife for doing their part to try and keep their part of the downtown looking pleasant and inviting. And I also agree with Steve in his assertion that some, businesses and owners of those businesses that have moved in or started up downtown, apparantely do not care about " asthetics ", only how much and how quickly they may make " money " , but spend less time and money on keeping the " asthetics " of their business/business district properly intact.
And since the big push to basically move Emporia's focus to the northwest, it would seem that the attitude is , the rest of Emporia and its residents, " Be Damned " .
February 28, 2010 at 10:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
koalemos (anonymous) says...
When I am informed of a new employee being assigned to the Emporia office I prepare a welcome packet to mail to him/her. I contact them and ask how many children they have and what grades they are in. Part of the welcome packet is stuff I get from the Emporia Convention Center and Visitors Bureau. I like to get a copy of the local news paper and information about schools and housing in Emporia. Once they arrive I enjoy listening to their trials and tribulations in finding appropriate housing. Over the years I have discovered that the people trying to sell or rent property in this town love showing new people East Street for some reason. They also take time to show housing south of south street too. I guess it is some game to make the other homes they show look more appealing but what it really does is sends them to Americus, Neosho Rapids, Olpe and Allen. I've even had employees decide to live in base housing on Fort Riley and commute daily to and from Emporia because of their first impression of our fair town.
February 28, 2010 at 10:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
My family just brought down an old beer joint near 12th and commerical, it also had a couple of substanard apartments. Just thought you like to know. That building cost nearly 100,000 dollars. My hope is other people will step up to the plate and make Emporia a better place to live. I think jobs are very important to young people. My family has provided jobs to former students like Bill Wygle, vice president to president John King, Art Bloomer who became a general in the Air Force and many others. My family has provided good housing and scholarships. As a real estate agent, I rent properties for people in the community. Thomas Rentals has there own property management. I hope this clears up some things that one blogger said about me being a slum landlord. I don't own any Real Estate properties, I don't have the temperment to handle all the problems of people destroying property, people that don't pay on time, and people that turn your property into a meth lab. For me life is to short for all this and all the increasing rules and regulations and the increase in taxes, gas, electric and water rates is making it very difficult for both tennants and landlords. If the cap and trade would have passed, all properties would be subject to inspections and if you don't have efficient windows, furnance, insulation, etc you will be subject to a fine and you will have so many days to cure the problem or you will be subject to a fine and be charged with unlawful occupancy of your own personal home. Its a wonder why anyone would want to even own an apartment under these circumstances. This is the reason that almost all colleges have there own student housing. I think one way to solve the student housing problem is for people in the community to adopt a student to share a room in there home. I know of some foreign students that live with families and this makes a neat culture experience. And I'm round'n third and head'n home.
February 28, 2010 at 11:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
Food for thought-What you see in others is what you see in yourself. Mark Twain said, a person is considered a crank until his ideas are accepted.
February 28, 2010 at 11:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
koalemos (anonymous) says...
reddog, I never called you a slum lord. Once, I said you reminded me of my granddad on my moms side of the family. My granddad was a business owner with a wholesale foods distribution warehouse, a general store in a tiny town and restaurants in two towns out in western Kansas. Granddad hired lots of people. He liked Ronald Regan and that is the only thing I disagreed with him on. Other than that I really admired him. You still remind me of my grandpa. So there!
February 28, 2010 at 12:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
"Food for thought-What you see in others is what you see in yourself. Mark Twain said, a person is considered a crank until his ideas are accepted."
Amazing, you use this quote after you say:
" I don't have the temperment to handle all the problems of people destroying property, people that don't pay on time, and people that turn your property into a meth lab. For me life is to short for all this and all the increasing rules and regulations and the increase in taxes, gas, electric and water rates is making it very difficult for both tennants and landlords."
Apply your own philosophy.
February 28, 2010 at 1:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
As I stated before:
• Develop and improve the city’s infrastructure
• Develop and improve relations between the city and ESU
• Develop and sustain the downtown business area
• Diversify and increase the number of jobs in the Emporia area
• Create a vision for Emporia
These are good goals to strive for, they are neither liberal or conservative, they make sense. Which is more than I can say for this thread.
February 28, 2010 at 1:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
MrCmonkeeDo (anonymous) says...
"And establish criteria to know if these goals are being met. These are good things regardless of what side of the political spectrum you stand on."
They sure are and-one might add-not so lofty as to be unreachable. Hopefully it didn't take them folks anymore'n about 15 or 20 minutes to come up with it; but it's a good list of goals. For a bunch of Old Farts.
Besides, it's just Resume material and Public Relations sheep-dip.
And reddog,
"If the cap and trade would have passed, all properties would be subject to inspections and if you don't have efficient windows, furnance, insulation, etc you will be subject to a fine and you will have so many days to cure the problem or you will be subject to a fine and be charged with unlawful occupancy of your own personal home. Its a wonder why anyone would want to even own an apartment under these circumstances. This is the reason that almost all colleges have there own student housing."
That is just Sooo much nonsense. For the love of Gaia man, read this:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/busine...
February 28, 2010 at 1:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
MrCmonkeeDo (anonymous) says...
For the record MrC does agree with goodoleboy.
They are good goals. But they're no-brainer goals. They are in fact, just the kind of goal MrC would expect from a politician.
February 28, 2010 at 2:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
MrC what I would like to see from them is how they plan to accomplish these goals, that part always seems vague to me=)
February 28, 2010 at 2:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
Meth
I don't know how many sq. ft. are under roof at Hill's but their property is way closer to 80 ac. than 20. FYI a 1/2 mile by 1/4 mile = 80ac.
Reddog I agree with Create you might have some good ideas once in awhile if you filtered out some of the bulls##t.
On your idea of a huge grant I don't agree. Grants are good things for building things like Olpe is going to do with their's, but when you use a grant to build a museum, visitor's center or anything that needs staffed, you'd better have the money to pay for it. Grants aren't free (tax money) and they end up costing more than they're worth sometimes.
MrC
There was an add on to the cap and trade that would have made California's building code mandatory for everyone.
February 28, 2010 at 2:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
tbluma
Yes, the entire property that Hills purchased is very close to being 100 acres in size. But the current Hills plant is only 300,000 square feet in size, under one roof and the total foot print of the current Hills plant building, storage towers and employee and guest parking lots is close to 20 acres in size.
I appoligize for not being clear, on the current size of the total Hills package as it sets now.
I also agree with goodoleboy's analogy of the goals for Emporia to strive for and that these goals are not associated with any politica; party. But once these goals are brought to the forefront, then is when they become political in nature, based on which political party, etc., just happens to be in power at the time . That is when the goals for the future seem to go to Hell in a hand basket . Perfect example, look at how a person who is elected to public office has a plan and goals and how much lack of co-operation and support the goals get and this is true in all forms of government. And of course there is the undue outside influence of certain intrenched powerful and iinfluential individuals, etc., that may interfere with " Goals " .
February 28, 2010 at 3:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
I tip my hat to Chase County for obtaining 6 million dollars for the Tall Grass Prairie Project. This is a Fed project and its to bad Lyon County couldn't have piggy-backed into this tourism deal. It appears to me someone is not doing their job.
February 28, 2010 at 3:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
admireed (anonymous) says...
Reddog...Chase County and Lyon County (Emporia) are the same tourist area
Edward McKernan
February 28, 2010 at 4:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Steve,
Thanks for the info on vets services. I didn't know the services here were so many and so often. I will stop harping on that subject.
As for my taking on a garden downtown, I would if I physically could. I wasn't pointing to your corner of the downtown world. Your place always looks nice. But you alone are not the only downtown business.
And yes, I agree, perhaps the Gazette could ONCE AGAIN do a piece on the downtown trash. The last time they took pictures, people cleaned up and also made all kind of promises. One said she had no idea it looked so bad. ???
February 28, 2010 at 5:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eucharistandcannabis (anonymous) says...
Complain, complain, complain. Time for some of you either to silence yourselves or become an active and contributing member of the community.
When I think of Emporia, I think of negativity. Thank you bloggers for exemplifying my point. Life must really suck in Emporia if all you can do is whine.
February 28, 2010 at 8:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
"Complain, complain, complain. Time for some of you either to silence yourselves or become an active and contributing member of the community."
If I pay my taxes and stay out of trouble do I get to join this elite club you speak of?
February 28, 2010 at 8:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Well, those who don' t live here should not think about Emporia. Also, what you are hearing and reading is not necessarily negativity, but some semblance of concern and common sense. If you don' t like the posts, don' t read them .
It just so happens I have made or tried to make a contribution, as well as others on these threads, only to find that any contribution is not heeded or welcomed.
February 28, 2010 at 8:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eucharistandcannabis (anonymous) says...
Dear Meth,
Go back to your double wide.
Sincerely,
The Human Race
February 28, 2010 at 8:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eucharistandcannabis (anonymous) says...
Meth, I found you an Facebook (http://www.dba-oracle.com/images/redn...). Wanna be friends? BTW, I don't care for squirrel cuisine. Too many calories.
February 28, 2010 at 9:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
MrCmonkeeDo (anonymous) says...
eucharistandcannabis,
MrC is surprised; it almost sounds as if you think folks who live in "double-wides" are somehow beneath you?
Examine your bigotry brother.
You can complain about the complainers; you can hate the haters; but making fun of the less fortunate will never make you cool.
February 28, 2010 at 9:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justthefacts (anonymous) says...
This isn't 1940, it's not even 1970. It's never gonna be that way again folks. Time moves on. What worked then isn't gonna work now. The "good days" were full of hatred, bigotry and segregation. The government gave up habeas corpus and locked up Japanese Americans just because they looked like those we were fighting in WWII. The government treated German prisoners of war better than they treated the African-Americans that were fighting for our country.
Simply paying taxes and staying under the radar doesn't entitle you to anything. It is the obligation of every citizen of this country to support it through their dollars, time and talents. Remember what John Kennedy said? "Ask not what your country can do for your but what you can do for your country?"
And it doesn't mean dragging us back into the 19th century either.
By the way reddog, the KITA principle died with Taylor's Scientific Model. You treat people like dirt, good people leave and go someplace else. All you wind up with is Sh$$.
You all better be very concerned about what folks outside of Emporia think of this community as folks outside this community will bring new business and industry here. I'm glad that in my absence a few folks have decided to challenge some of the curmudgeons here. It would be nice to see people talking about something positive here for a change.
I know for a fact that some of you here are directly responsible for scaring off several good businesses and talented people.
Congratulations.
February 28, 2010 at 9:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
justthefacts
When negativity surrounds you, such as someone demanding the people, basically kiss their butts and give them more money than can be afforded to give and those same people who want their butts kissed demand that the people who fund every aspect of their lives and jobs tell the people to put up the money and do with less in their own lives. Also the people who fund " All " through taxes, are looking at the possibility of being taxed out of providing food, clothing and shelter for their families are supposed to be, " positively " Positive " ! Positive things in a persons life, causes people to think " Positive " , have " Positive Thoughts ", " Speak Positive Words " and do " Positive Things ".
And as for knowing for a fact that some of us here are directly responsible for scaring off several good businesses and talented people, there is no way you could know that, only if you happen to know us personally by our given names . Would you care to make any public accusations and identify the ones of which you speak. Either by their given name or their forum name ?
If you would care to name me as one of the those, who scared off businesses and talented people, I will say right now, you don' t know what you are talking about .
February 28, 2010 at 10:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
eucharistandcannabis
You need to lay of the cannabis and attend communion more.
February 28, 2010 at 10:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
koalemos (anonymous) says...
I went surfing and found eucharistandcannabis hanging out under a bridge:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMEe7J...
February 28, 2010 at 11:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
Just the facts, give us the facts. It seems like to me you have a lot of pent up anger and I will pray for you. God bless and have a good day.
March 1, 2010 at 3:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
I was just thinking about something really profound, what is more important to Emporia the square footage of a building or new jobs to Emporia? It seems to me that someone has a lot of pentup anger to get crazy over square footage. Just remember this and this is no trick, but yard by yard it is hard, but by inch by inch, its a ..........
March 1, 2010 at 3:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
Thanks for all the cards and letters and this is reddog operating behind enemy lines and I have the Empire on the run.
March 1, 2010 at 3:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
"I know for a fact that some of you here are directly responsible for scaring off several good businesses and talented people."
If the businesses were that good and the people that talented, they would have had the guts and tenacity to stay instead of getting scared off. What a lame statement.
March 1, 2010 at 7:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
reddog
I believe it was you who first obsessed about the square footage of a building in Emporia, which by the way, you profoundly exagerated the size . It would also seem that you are obsessed about much of nothing, judging from the programs and the people you seem to listen to and choose to worship. Try listening to your own, judgement and common sense logic sometime .
March 1, 2010 at 7:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
The title of this article of discussion is " Commissioners look down the road "
I can tell you this . One can " Look " down the road all they wish, however if there is not a well thought out plan to go down the road or funds to pay for the trip down the road to your desired destination, the only thing you will go down is loosing your way and loss of achieving your final destination or goal, as well as losing the desire and respect of those who wish to travel down the road with you, doing so at a sensible, affordable pace and cost.
I also wish for myself and everyone to travel down the road to something better. But I refuse to travel down that road at the expense of leaving others in the community behind or causing anyone in the community any sort of hardship or strife. The only way a community can travel down the road to being something better, is if everyone in the community is thought of and brought along and if the trip does not " hurt " anyone in the traveling process . Also the road traveled to a better future, etc. for one community, may not work or be the best road or work to achieving a better future for another or all communities. The road to the future is not an easy one and takes much considerate planning, especially consideration of whether the plan will cost more than the communities people can afford, who the plan will hurt (bankrupt ), who will likely be left behind, etc.. Planning and building for the future is a long and arduous undertaking, especially when it will affect the lives of a community and its people and is nothing to try and accomplish " overnight " or in a hap-hazard, inconsiderate manner.
March 1, 2010 at 7:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
e&c
For some reason, I had expected more from you than your double wide remark. Maybe you should start concentrating more on the eucharist and less on the cannabis.
Just a thought....
March 1, 2010 at 7:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
justthefacts
Thanks for a very good post....at least the first two/thirds of it.
I don't have enough data about the last third to comment one way or another.
March 1, 2010 at 8:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
koalemos (anonymous) says...
What this town needs is a visitors center with a stone hedge looking rock formation at the exit ramp off the turnpike. Something like that would provide an advantage to Emporia over the Cassoday and Admire exits.
March 1, 2010 at 8:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justthefacts (anonymous) says...
Create:
If they are that good, they can decide where they want to go. They don't have to "settle" for anything. Lame? I don't think so. Truth? Probably so.
March 1, 2010 at 9:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
justthefacts, or
justmyopinion?
You decide.
Either one is good.
March 1, 2010 at 9:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
justthefacts,
I didn't say those businesses had to "settle" for anything. I said they wouldn't allow themselves to be scared away if they were so good.
You say the people who comment on these threads are responsible for scaring businesses away. Give me a break. If we're that good at making impressions and convincing people, we need to get ourselves to Washington and form a lobby group so we can make some big bucks.
March 1, 2010 at 10:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justthefacts (anonymous) says...
Create,
You should never assume. You might be surprised what folks here do and don't do in the time they spend away from their computers.
Quite frankly the idea of lobbying both Washington as well as prospective businesses and talent is everybody's job. You can either be a positive influence or a negative influence. Maybe rather than defining ourselves by what we are not, we should be defining this community by what we can do and have accomplished.
March 1, 2010 at 2:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
justthefacts
Sometime last year, I took it upon myself, at my expense to write letters to several different companies and included photos of Emporia, including several empty manufacturing facilities, trying to sell to these companys the attributes of Emporia and locating in Emporia . I also included in these letters recommending Emporia as an excellant/good place to locate a business or industry, the addresses of the City Commission, County Commission, Regional Development Center, etc.. I am sorry to say, apparantely none of the Companys were interested .
Can you please tell me what you have done to try and promote Emporia, for the future of Emporia.
No, I did not travel personally to these Companys, as some were out of the country and I am not a wealthy person, to be able to afford a lot of expensive travel, but I would if I were able and had the means to do so.
Therefore it is my opinion that you do not really know the people who post on this forum, as well as you purport to.
March 1, 2010 at 2:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
P.S. Oh, and I might add, that some of these companies that I contacted, are some of the largest in the world, such as Seimens and General Electric .
March 1, 2010 at 2:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
koalemos (anonymous) says...
Big business will only relocate to a community that is willing to cave to the demands of their business. The bigger the business, the bigger the demands. Communities who demonstrate a willingness to make demands on big business will run big business away. There are way too many cities in the United States willing to give big business land, facilities, tax exemption, start up capitol and new employee training for Emporia, Kansas to stand a chance.
March 1, 2010 at 5:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justthefacts (anonymous) says...
Meth,
I used contacted friends I knew who worked at various companies and industries and made contacts with those who scout and locate business in new locations. I provided prospectus and followed up with phone calls...not cold calls or letters.
Several actually made visits to town. Most read the forums and spoke to those already in business here. I didn't shoot for pie in the sky, just realistic goals for already established businesses in the region that complimented what we had or what we could facilitate.
March 1, 2010 at 6:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
koalemos (anonymous) says...
I bring business to town all the time. Here in a couple of months I will bring in a engineer firm from New Jersey who will bring in his contractor from Missouri who will bring in his subs from Arkansas to do some construction at my place of work. All of these entities will stay in local hotels, eat at local restaurants and spend money at local businesses in the evenings for about five weeks maybe six. They will make lots of purchases from the local construction material suppliers and I will recommend they purchase their fuel at Steve's new gas station and if they are going to eat a hamburger anyway, they aught to eat a hamburger at J's Carryout because they have the best hamburger in the world.
March 1, 2010 at 6:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Any business that uses these forums as a barometer on whether or not to come here is not worth having. I have never yet seen a place that has discussion forums unlike ours, and to be honest if I was scouting a community and did see the kind of discord that takes place here I would immediately think it a front and overlook them. Some of what you say makes sense but faulting these forums for driving away business is just ludicrous. Bottom line, companies are looking for a deal, start up costs are very intimidating and anything they can do to lessen the blow matters. Lets see some proof, else this is just laughable.
March 1, 2010 at 6:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
koalemos (anonymous) says...
goodoleboy is right. This news forum is among the mildest of all news forums on the web.
If you want to bring business into town make sure tour home insurance is up to snuff and report the damage from the winter storms. Have you even taken a good look at the outside of your home yet? Out buildings and trees should be checked as well. Spring is coming and in Emporia that means wind, hail and lightning. Are your electronics covered? Do your part Emporia! Contact your insurance company and get a new roof. Your local contractors would appreciate the business.
March 1, 2010 at 7:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Well, excuuuuuse me for trying to help Emporia and everyone in Emporia. It would seem that if someone does try to do something, it is either not enough or tooo much. I wish some people would not blame people for not doing anything, and at the same time blame someone for " shooting for pie in the sky " or not shooting high enough, I am just an ordinary person, I do not have the luxury of having any substantial " business contacts " nor do I brag about having such business contacts. I am just a 68 going on 69 year old, retired, disabled, geezer, who has tried to lite fires, either by trying to do something myself or by stirring those up who have the ability to do something with, some critisizm or as some say " complaining or whining .
And I agree with koalemos as far as business locating only in towns and cities that will or are able to bear the lions share of expense, by way of land donation, tax breaks, property improvements, such as access roads, road and street improvements, furnishing utility access,additions, etc..
And at times even when a city or town goes into debt, to entice a business or manufacturing facility to a town or city, the rug is pulled out from under the city or town by the business, itself, deciding not to locate there.
Does anyone remember a few years back, the big hoop-la accociated with a " FURNITURE FACTORY " locating in Emporia and what happened to that big deal !
What about " Home Depot " wanting to locate a facility in the old Modine location and the big gripe that Dolly Madison put up in opposition to that deal. What about " Lowes " wanting to locate at the noth end of Industrial Rd. and the opposition that " Sutherlands " and the people in the immediate area who were against that happening.
No, Emporia has had oppertunities to bring businesses to the City, but it has been not only some people who have been against it, but it has also been businesses who did not want the competition or the excuse of , increased truck traffic at 15th and Industrial would be unsafe and hinder truck traffic to and from Dolly Madison .
March 1, 2010 at 8:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Furthermore, I wonder how many businesses or companys will want to or even locate in a town or city that is $60 million in debt and planning on going even farther in debt in the next 5 to 6 years and this fact will make it even harder for said city, town, State, County to offer any kind of monetary encentives to even the smallest of businesses. And if you think a company does not look at a State, City, Town, County and their ability to spend withing their recieved revenues, tax burden of its citizens and businesses, and that this does not weigh heavly on whether a company decides to locate in a certain area, you are sadly mistaken. So you see, my and others whining, bitching and complaining about unneeded and unnecessary spending is not just being negative, only being realistic.
March 1, 2010 at 8:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mslater (Matt Slater) says...
My question is this:
Does the city plan to implement these five categories of changes before or after they declare bankruptcy?
Matt
March 1, 2010 at 10:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Steve...or anybody else that has an answer. I have a question but it takes a little set up so bear with please.
A major employer in a small town cuts it's work force in half sending a large number of people looking for new work which is not available in that town......so they move away. Many local businesses immediately feel the pinch and their business begins to suffer. Over the years other bad things have happened and mistakes have been made. There is plenty of blame to go around. Wasteful government....bad business decisions....excessive regulation....not enough regulation.....and a thousand more things have joined together to trigger a major downturn in the economy.
At the same time the national economy goes sour for many of the same reasons both public and private. Businesses have fewer customers so they do less business. First they stop giving raises....eventually they start laying off. Less money is spent so the remaining businesses have fewer sales and the cycle continues.
People are hurting...every body has less including government who is collecting fewer taxes so it attempts to recoup the loss of tax revenue by raising taxes .....but the financially suffering tax payer rebels. So government and schools also start reducing the workforce and cutting how much they buy. Fewer people working.....less money being spent...less business being done....more people getting laid off....more businesses close.....less money being being spent......more people get laid off....more businesses close....etc....etc.....etc.
Now....here is my question. What stops the cycle? What turns it around? What causes that first business to say....I'm going to hire a bunch of these people that have no jobs and provide them with enough money that they can start spending again? How is this supposed to happen?
March 2, 2010 at 6:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Well, biscuit, the most probable way to stop this cycle will be a complete financial melt down or depression.
And until the boys and girls in D.C. can decide to stop fighting about the health care/insurance bill, you are NOT going to see a huge jump in hires by business people. Who in their right mind would hire a bunch of people now when they may get hit with huge costs of a government mandated health care system for those new hires. I know you and I don't agree on this, but that's how I see it.
i myself, wonder if i will live long enough to see some of that ss money . And I feel sorry for my small group of employees, (average age 27.5) every time I deduct social security and medicare payments from their paychecks. They know they will never see that money again.
March 2, 2010 at 7:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
So Steve....If I understand you correctly, You are saying that by defeating health care reform....and keeping intact a system that sees about one of every two dollars spent wasted.....and cutting out government social security and medicare spending.....will bring about a turn around of this downward cycle.
To my way of thinking both of those measures would only serve to further reduce the amount of money circulating and bring about further problems of spiraling joblessness and decreased business. Where will cutting these things put more people back to work and motivate them, to start buying more? Ever increasing health care cost is not being passed down in turns of new jobs its only supporting a system of greed and waste as is.
What we need is more people working. I am not saying there is no problems with either of those things...I just don't see how eliminating either will result in people having more money so they then will spend more money. All I see by eliminating them is people having even less money.
March 2, 2010 at 8:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
I have to go to work in a moment but I certainly would like to hear some more thoughts about this. I guess what I would like to hear is some ideas about what needs to be done now......rather than so much rehashing of what might have been done in the past.
March 2, 2010 at 8:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
Good post biscuitboy, I recall a story about a guy who ran all over the world looking for diamonds and died broke in his hometown. After his death diamonds were discovered on his property, he just didn't dig deep enough. We need to do everything we can to expand the factories that we have. This is where the future growth will be for the next 3 years and its going to happen and that's because I have the inside cutting edge knowledge.
March 2, 2010 at 9:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
Good post Koslewos, I like your idea of having a stonehedge at the turnpike exit which has a 4 million traffic count.
March 2, 2010 at 9:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
Believe me, things are looking better although some places are still laying off, but more than one busines is planning to expand and that's good.
March 2, 2010 at 9:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Well, biscuitboy, Steve,
Here is my take on how to stop the cycle in D.C., which is actually where the problem lies, would be to take the control of government and everything that is done, thought of and forcebly implimented in D.C. out of the hands of the few who are actually in control of government, all levels of government, from the Federal to local governments and that is the few, who, by way of their monetary influence are and have been driving this country and its people to ruin and put the control of government back into the hands of the " People " , I mean we the people, not those, the few people.
Exactly how to accomplish this feat, I do not have an answer to, short of revolution or coup by the people . Because voting for change, will not and cannot accomplish a satisfactory change.
It is my solomn opinion, that the form of government that exists in the U.S. today is not unlike the governments of the Monarchs of Dark and Middle Age Europe. Where you had Kings, Queens ( our President and Congress ) and then you had the Kings or Queens court, which was made up of the nobility ( the wealthy, super wealthy class of the U.S. ) who were/are the true and real power and influence behind the throne and who dictated law and policy of the government of the Monarchs.
March 2, 2010 at 10:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
justthefacts,
Believe me, I've lobbied Washington many, many times. The problem I have always encountered is that if I commend them on what they are doing and offer ideas, I get a letter back thanking me and then listing all the things they have done for Emporia and Kansas -- nothing more than a form letter, and always, always asking for monetary support I might add. Bunk!
If I complain about a bill and give my opinion on something, I get nothing back.
I don't write much anymore. I prefer to do my lobbying elsewhere, and to do my volunteer work as every good citizen should.
No, maybe I wouldn't be surprised at all about what forum posters do in their off-computer time. Maybe that's what you meant when you said you knew "for a fact" people on here were instrumental in scaring businesses off. Quien sabe.
At the same time, many people do positive things for Emporia in their off time too. They spend money of their own like methusla did when he was writing letters to businesses trying to get them to locate here.
March 2, 2010 at 10:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
There you go again P-Man putting words in my mouth. Health care reform is needed, just not the bills coming through congress. Don't you think it is wrong that the states of nebraska and florida got special pork for their congress members vote for it?
Don't you think that allowing medicare to negotiate bids on prescription medicines would lower the cost? That SHOULD BE EASY TO DO.
Don't you believe that caps should be put on medical mal-practice awards, (at least cap what the lawyers make)?
Wouldn't allowing insurance companies to sell across state lines increase competition and in turn lower prices? If a race to the bottom, as Obama calls it ,happens congress could come back and address it when it happens.
There are many ways the government can help with health care reform besides taking it over.
The way it stands now the government will run this and the taxes to pay for it will come from those young people working that don't need it now. Just like social security and medicare are doing now and they are both broke. Sooner or later those youngsters will say, "HEY SCREW YOU OLD FARTS, things change and we're not paying anymore".
Then they will herd us all off to old folk "camps" to fend for ourselves, or maybe just grind us up for soylent green:-)
Seriously though,
isn't there a better way to spank those greedy businessmen than for the government to take over the system?
And when did health care, or social security or medicare for that matter, become a Right in America?
I don't remember the part in the constitution saying all men have the right of "LIFE , LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINES, AND ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT TO GUARENTEE THAT HAPPINES.
There is a reason these programs are called entitlements.
We the voters think we are entitled to them. And therein lies the problem.
March 2, 2010 at 10:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS STUCK
March 2, 2010 at 11:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
koalemos (anonymous) says...
Why can a contractor from a different state afford to transport his crew, equipment and materials to Emporia, KS and pay for motels and restaurants and still do the work for significantly less money that a contractor right here in Emporia?
March 2, 2010 at noon ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Steve
I really didn't intend to get into a discussion of the relative merits or liabilities of reforming health care, social security, or medicare with this particular question. Not that they are not valid questions...but that I was addressing just how forcing government to curtail spending and force thousands more government employees on the the unemployment line is going to put more people back in the market place spending money so businesses again can grow and expand and start putting people back to work.
Time and again I hear people on these boards say what we need is jobs--jobs--jobs. I don't see how eliminating many more government jobs accomplishes that goal. I know the supply siders like to say that the resultant tax savings to business men would result in increased jobs and hiring. But Bush's tax stimulus seemed to offer little help. And I'm not convinced that just reducing the tax load on a small business is going to necessarily be spent adding jobs if there is not enough business around to justify the expansion. The question becomes does stimulus provide jobs or does jobs provide stimulus and that is the old supply vs demand side economic argument that has gone on for years,
I would be happy to address the other questions you brought up and discuss them in more detail when I get off work this evening. But looking at stimulating the dismal local economy here and now was the topic of this thread and was the reason for my question.
How much tax reduction would be required to provide a big enough increase in near minimum wage employees to off-set the loss of one 100-K administrator..and how long would it take to happen.
March 2, 2010 at 12:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
My question is not limited to just Steve.....I would like to hear some other ideas also.
March 2, 2010 at 12:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
biscuit, your question;
"How much tax reduction would be required to provide a big enough increase in near minimum wage employees to off-set the loss of one 100-K administrator..and how long would it take to happen." is not the point.
If say a public administrator is paid 100 K for an unneeded job, should we keep them on at taxpayer expense just to keep them employed?
As far as this thread is concerned if you fired 1 superintendent at 100k a year you could hire 3 worker bees to do that job and more at 33K per year. And you can have 3 families living on that instead of one. It's possible in Emporia. As far as Emporia is concerned I think you would be hard pressed to find very many greedy business men who are solely in business to milk every dollar they make for themselves. You are lumping all business owners together into one group and you know what that's called?
Do you really think all jobs should be government?
Would that help Emporia?
March 2, 2010 at 3:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
A HUGE BRIGHT NOTE IN LYON COUNTY!
MOST COUNTY APPRAISALS WENT DOWN!
and we all know what that means.
Lower taxes,
NOT!!!!
Watch the mill levy go up next year biscuit.
I'll bet you a biscuit to a dog turd :-)
March 2, 2010 at 3:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
You can hold on to the stakes! :-)
March 2, 2010 at 3:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
If you actually hired three worker bees to replace the one administrator then the net effect would probably be a wash...if not an advantage to the three bees. But the reason we were talking about getting rid of the administrator in the first place was to reduce cost to the school district so we would not have to pay any additional taxes. That being the case I don't think you would be hiring three to replace one. If you did you defeat your original purpose. So that is mixing apples and oranges. And it still doesn't address my original question of how does increasing unemployment...either government or private...help stimulate less unemployment.
I don't think I implied that all business owners were greedy and out to keep everything for themselves. But if they were smart business owners they would certainly weigh the current business climate in Emporia before deciding to invest all--or even part--of their reduced tax savings into capitol expenditures and new employment Especially if there were too few working people left to buy his increased product. or support his expanded offerings.
Now you are putting words in my mouth. I never said all jobs should be part of the government....and that certainly would not be good for Emporia. But I also don't think that government jobs are all a waste of money. And money earned in those jobs is spent in your place of business...has taxes paid on it just like the money you earn does and goes overall to help the general economic health of the community just as much as any money from the private sector. It does nothing to help the unemployment picture look better just because the jobs lost this quarter were all from the public sector.
March 2, 2010 at 6:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
koalemos (anonymous) says...
Once upon a time the people told the government what to do, how to do it and how much money they get to do it with and we were a free nation.
Somewhere along the line the government started telling the people what to do, how they want it done and how much money they had to pay for it to be done and we became a police state.
If we ask the government to spend less money the government takes us to a government courthouse and sues us so they can use our name to borrow money from China and give themselves pay raises and hire assistants for their assistants.
Suggest a more cost effective way to do the same thing better and you will be attacked by 100K + government employees who have defaulted on their student loans.
Now the government wants to know why everyone stays at home going out only for work, food and medical treatment. You don't have to impose curfews on a free nation. Just raise the price of gas and tax the S#!+ out of everything else and the free people will impose a curfew on themselves.
The last time I went out to spend money and have a good time I was sent outside to smoke, lost my spot in line at the pool table, someone left lipstick on my rum and coke glass and I got a ticket for having a burned out taillight on my way back home and was sick with the H1N1 for a month. I spent money but as far as a good time goes...well lets just say it was unforgettable.
These days if you want to find me I'll be at home. Maybe out in the garden growing tobacco or in the garage making home brew beer.
March 2, 2010 at 6:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
les_herschler (anonymous) says...
Still laughing, folks...
March 2, 2010 at 7:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
I realize there is a danger in arguing the point that I am of being accused of thinking that all government is good and all business is bad. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Of course there is a great deal of waste in government....of course some government jobs are overpaid and unnecessary....but not all of them. So why can't we concentrate more on meaningful reductions of waste in both programs and personnel rather than just going after wholesale cuts in numbers. That approach....in my view.....could cause us more harm that good.
But from what I am hearing, it seems most peoples primary objective is just to cut spending and reduce taxes. All the talk of waste seems more of an excuse than the real motivation. That being the case we run a great risk of throwing out the baby with the bath.
March 2, 2010 at 7:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Steve
I'll take your bet. Not because I think you are necessarily wrong...but because I have plenty of dog turds that I can risk on losing wagers.
March 2, 2010 at 7:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
les...
So who cares?
March 2, 2010 at 7:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
les_herschler (anonymous) says...
You should, biscuitboy, cause we can't solve this divided.
March 2, 2010 at 7:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
koalemos
Only one of your litany of woes was caused by the government. So why does it get all the blame?
March 2, 2010 at 7:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
les....
I realize that. That's why I am looking for common ground. You have to start somewhere.
March 2, 2010 at 7:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
koalemos (anonymous) says...
google clean air emporia and you will see that they are a subsidiary of the not for profit organization emporians for drug awareness who takes taxpayer money and uses that money to impose more government upon the private sector taxpayers. They still claim smoking bans are good for business. The director listed on the web page uses a USD253 email address and so does several other "coalition members". What, doesn't the employees of USD253 think they are government employees. The last government ethics class I attended explained that using government IT resources for private enterprises was illegal and constituted grounds for termination of employment.
March 2, 2010 at 7:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
koalemos....
OK.....I just wasn't following your line of thought. And as you should know I am certainly no fan of CAE.
March 2, 2010 at 8:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
Go to youtube The Reagon Obama Debate.
March 3, 2010 at 1:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
E-mail I received the other day
Once upon a time the gov. had a vast scrap yard in the middle of the desert. It was thougt that someone might steel from it at night so they created a night watchman position. Then the gov. decided that he couldn't do his job without instruction so they created a planning dept. They hired 2 people, one to write instructions and one to do time studies. Then someone said how do we know the guard is doing his job correctly so they created a quality control depart. and hired 2 people. one to study and one to write reports.
Now we have to pay these people so they hired a timekeeper and payroll officer.
Next someone had to be responsible for all these people so they created an administrative section with 3 people. An administrative officer,asst. admin. officer and a legal secretary.
Now after a year they are over budget by $18,000 and need to cutback overall cost. So they laid off the night watchman.
Just a story but a true one to follow
March 3, 2010 at 12:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
Does anyone remember the Department of Energy?
It was created 8/4/1977 during the Carter admin. to lessen our dependence on foriegn oil
Today 33 yrs. later the DOE has a $24.2 billion budget/yr,
16000 employees, approximately 100,000 contract employees and what have they accomplised?
Today our oil consumption is 70% foriegn and when they formed DOE it was only 30%.
This is only one reason that I happen to think that the gov. shouldn't run anything.
Yes they hire a lot of people but what good is it doing we the tax payers?
March 3, 2010 at 12:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Steve....
I believe Social Security and Medicare became a right in America when the government made them entitlements and started withholding money to pay for them from your paycheck.
Now some want to rethink that and maybe we need to do so. But that doesn't change the fact that for millions of Americans already drawing it it is the only thing between them and the street. The government now has a moral...if not a legal....obligation to continue to honor its commitment to them. The same holds true for millions more like you that are withing ten or fifteen years...or more....from retirement and have too little time to change course now.
If the government reneges on those commitments then faith and trust in the government will completely die and anarchy may soon be the rule of the land. But if those commitments are kept while social security is dismantled millions and millions of dollars of then unfunded obligation will remain. Then you will be able to add that to the things that cause your tax burden to rise.
March 3, 2010 at 12:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
tbluma
There were many, many reasons why our dependence on foreign oil has risen dramatically over the past three decades...and not near all of them can be traced back to the Dept. of Energy. In fact, some of those reasons can be traced right back to the oil companies that are profiting from that dependence.
March 3, 2010 at 12:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
I realize that to be true bisquit. I would say though that for the money spent they haven't done their job. This comment probably really belongs on the the other thread for KellyG to read, since she thinks that raising taxes is the answer.
March 3, 2010 at 2:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
lol tbluma. Well done.
March 3, 2010 at 3:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
tbluma,
I am afraid that trust and faith in government has already, pretty much died . And as for anarchy, well, not just yet, but who knows, when !
March 5, 2010 at 9:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
And as I listen to the rumblings, rhetoric, etc. of those presently in public office, elected and appointed and those wannabe's who are stumping to be elected or appointed to public office, I see and hear no significant changes that will make the lives of " Us/You " the real backbone of this nation, " the poor/middle class " taxpayers who are paying for most of the past, present and future mismanagement of this country, as well as lining the pockets and bank accounts of those who are really pillaging and raping this country and taxpayers, with the help of those already in office and those who are salavating to be in office to get in on their cut of the spoils of the pillaging and raping of You, Me and this country .
March 5, 2010 at 9:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )