The possibility of losing programs and positions in the Emporia school district brought a standing-room-only crowd to a public comment session Monday evening in the Mary Herbert Education Center.
The meeting was scheduled as part of a series of meetings as the school board tries to trim $1.4 million from its budget. The district, like school districts across the state, is responding to massive cuts made by the legislature and the governor in per-pupil state aid to schools.
Most of the people who took their turns at a microphone in front of the board had a common theme: Keep programs — particularly fine arts — and staff intact and find cuts elsewhere, such as in the number of district administrators or in salary cuts across-the-board.
The board had discussed possible ways to cut costs during a study session on Friday. The cuts included recommendations listed as made by the Performance-Based Budgeting team and also recommendations from district administrators.
Among those were eliminating some teaching positions at Emporia High School and Emporia Middle School through re-structuring teams and classes, as well as consolidating some positions, using building technologists to serve as library aides.
Other possible cuts discussed at the study session were trimming back fine arts classes and teachers and eliminating most after-school programs.
Many of the speakers Monday night used their three minutes to ask the board to keep the students in mind as they made the cuts.
To read complete story see the print edition or the online print edition.
justthinkin (anonymous) says...
To Marilyn Harbaugh - Thank you.
February 23, 2010 at 2:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eucharistandcannabis (anonymous) says...
Mrs. Harbaugh, take a bow. The arts are crucial to a well-rounded and competitive education.
February 23, 2010 at 3:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
There are some In Emporia who have taken a 100% pay cut in the last year. So don't tell me that a 10% cut in wages for upper administrative jobs in the school district is too much.
And it would save over $200,000.00.
5 principals at the high school?
Come on school board, you ran for the office, now do your job and cut admin salaries 1st.
IT'S FOR THE CHILDREN!
February 23, 2010 at 3:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
Steve I would be in favor of a 10% cut myself, but do you really think they will stand for it?
I seriously doubt that the NEA would accept any cuts either.
How many teachers are there anyway? The reason I ask is to be able to figure what that savings would be with a $50K average.
At any rate salary reduction is a good place to start but I don't think it will get us anywhere near the $1.4M without other cuts.
As for Ms. Strictland's taking a cut in pay in Okla. in the 80's. That may very well have happened but I seem to remember the teacher's down there boycotting school for a day or two and threatening to strike if the state didn't come up with the money. I remember this well because that is when the wife quit the teacher's union.
I still see no problem with raising class size from 14.5 to 16, The PBB said that alone would save $400K
February 23, 2010 at 4:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
b3bill (anonymous) says...
When I drive past Timmerman School in the late evenings, all the outside lights on the building and in the parking lot are on. Not one car is there. Some outside lighting is needed, but what I see there is so excessive. I can't imagine how much is being spent running all the unnecessary lights. Looks like USD 253 has plenty of money.
February 23, 2010 at 4:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Ok tbluma,
We agree.
10% cut in superintendent and principles wages, cut out 3 vice principles at the high school and increase the class size to 17-20 students, I dont think the students education would suffer at that ratio. b3bill, motion detectors on all outdoor lighting at schools, (NO BRAINER), would save money. Who was in charge of the specs when these schools were designed and built. Heim?
Sell (don't give away) unused school property.
Kansas Ave.
Combine lowther north and south and sell one of them.
Stop giving away office space and utilities to Emporians for Drug Awarness, a program which has been proven to be useless.
Cut busing to only out of city limits students, This in itself might solve the problem of childhood obesity.
Just a few ideas that were NOT on the PBB. Who made up that list, Heim?
Come on HEIM, take a 10% pay cut.
IT'S FOR THE CHILDREN!
Not so respectfully,
Steve Corbin
February 23, 2010 at 6:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Frazzled (anonymous) says...
As a member of 'the PBB" this year, I would encourage you to read all of the documents that were studied and used to come to the decisions and recommendations. Mr. Corbin many of your suggestions ARE recommendations coming out of "the PBB". Salary reductions were not considered by this group, but if you attended the BOE study session, you would see that it is now a consideration. I would suggest that people read and become informed about the current recommendations that are being considered rather than blaming a group of VOLUNTEERS for their serivice in a very difficult time.
Like it or not, DEEP cuts are going to have to occur in many areas. Let's be realistic...
My advice...spend some time writing your state legislators and let them know your concerns.
February 23, 2010 at 9:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
Way to go Dawn and others!!
I agree that many of the wrong items are being prioritized for cutting. I am a little sad to see orchestra on the cutting board as I feel it is a much more valuable learning experience for all students across the board than I feel the sports programs is. I think that if you can cut that and make parents pay for lessons for the kids that want it, you can do the same for the kids who want to play games. If I had to choose between the two, I would cut the games.
Also, I have mixed feelings about the Quest program which can but does not necessarily involve some learning enrichment activities. PTO sponsored child care programs are subsidized by voluntary donations to reduce the cost for the parents and seem to suffice, and my observation is that by the end of the day, most of the kids are just needing to run off energy and have a hard time absorbing more information. Most of them are also frustrated at still having to be at school because they are tired of having no space of their own, so free play can help them blow off that steam or they confine themselves to floor space to mentally escape for awhile.
But, I digress. All in all, it sounds like it was a good meeting and I hope that the board heeds the advice of the parents/taxpayers.
February 23, 2010 at 9:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
BTW, Steve, Kansas Ave. is used fairly entirely by the TPLC and virtual academy, but I am sure that could be consolidated into another of the properties that isn't being efficiently used.
February 23, 2010 at 9:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
alsrac (anonymous) says...
If these guys (administrators) really care for the children. they will take the pay cut (as millions of people already have).
If they don't accept they're being selfish, they should quit and hire some more capable people willing to work for less money.
If some families can survive earning $25,000 a year, why they can't take a cut?
February 23, 2010 at 9:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
hottopics (anonymous) says...
If we don't support the education for our children, what does that leave for the future of them, us, our communities. I am going to find out what my children's school lacks and help directly. Tax money is being burnt up elsewhere so maybe we need to step in and have more fundraisers. Its up to us to take care of our own since our local and state governments can't seem to allocate it any better.
February 23, 2010 at 10:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
Question
Is the 1.4M budget shortage or is it in actual spending?
Example (numbers are rounded not exact)
Instructional budget, Actual spent, Over (under) budget
06-07 37M, 35.2M (1.8)
07-08 39M, 35.2M (3.8)
08-09 41M, 37.4M (3.6)
It appears that just this line of the budget is more than enough if they are 1.4M short of budget rather than actual.
Average budgeted for past 3 yrs. is 3.066 more than actual.
Side note to Frazzeled
You're right, seems to me like you guys took a pretty good, undeserved, beating last night for doing volunteer work.
February 24, 2010 at 12:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Frazzled,
I was not badmouthing you or the other volunteers who worked on the PBB. I applaud you all for the volunteer effort.
I just find it sad that pay cuts for admin were not in the original study. It is a performance based budget plan is it not?
If so ADMIN wages and positions should have been the first thing on the list.
Less employees doing more work is how many small businesses are staying alive and serving their customers.
It could and should happen at our school district also while still serving its customers, the students.
Once again thanks to the volunteers. You did the best with what you were given.
And once again, School Board, before you cut anything else, cut admin salaries 10%.
IT'S FOR THE CHILDREN!
February 24, 2010 at 7:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
I just saw the #'s of the proposed salary cuts.
Administration: $23,000
Classified (teachers): $91,000
Certified (food service, custodial, aides, etc.): $231,000
I have no time and way too much sarcasm to comment effectively on this right now.
February 24, 2010 at 8:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Does this mean we can expect to see the administrators teaching classes, serving up lunch, and sweeping up at the end of the day.....I would hope so!
February 24, 2010 at 9:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
the following is from an e-mail I just recieved from state legislator Donohoe;
The overall education budget accounts for the lion's share of Kansas tax dollars. Although we are spending a total of $12,434 per student in the 2010 fiscal year, only 61% of that money makes it to the classroom! There are plenty of efficiencies in that funding stream alone to help offset any cuts that would be made to Medicaid recipients or those on the Developmentally and Physically Disabled Waiver.
61 % leaves a lot of room for improvement.
February 24, 2010 at 11:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Rep. Owen Donohoe is from the 39th district.
February 24, 2010 at 11:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justaflushaway (anonymous) says...
Hottopics, did you type fundraisers??? how far do you think that would go, that would not even fill the fuel tank of 1 of the many Chevy suburbans the school district have..
And ohfortheluvof it, You better think about teaching them something about survival, I didn't see very many veterans hiding behind a flute, and that's what this world is going to come to, the little children and you prefect parents had better think about what could happen in this country, Survival doesnt include glass blowing, football, cheer leading, basketball or tooting your horn, its about saving your a$$ in a time of crisis and we all are on our way there JMO
February 24, 2010 at 11:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
justaflush.....
Are you always this positive and upbeat, or do you save your uplifting thoughts just for us. I prefer to think that my country....,yes the one I served in the military for....is capable of working through this crises just like we have ones in the past. With mutual effort and working together. Quite frankly if your scenario is all that's ahead of us...why would we even want to stick around? I'll leave that future to you gloom and doom boys.
February 24, 2010 at 12:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justaflushaway (anonymous) says...
ok bisquickboy,
I guess you are right, I was wrong,, I forgot that WW11 was fought ONLY by those who were ONLY taught the Arts in school . And, I forgot that the only ones of us who went to Vietnam were honor students of the Arts. I dont know how I slipped through, do you have the address of who I can contact to get what I left in that great country of Vietnam back??
And your right, why stick around, just get out of the United States and go to Canada, that will show me, great thinking JMO
your right I should only see the fluffy side of things, I should never look at the reality side of things that you and a few others make comments on, I will try to refrain from it again.
And thank you for your service to your country
sure hope the DRAFT does not return
February 24, 2010 at 1:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
flush:
I'm not sure where I lost you, but I never said that the arts were essential...only that I'd cut sports (which aren't on the list of cutting places) before the part of music they are looking at. The part they are looking at is the introduction to musical instruments being played in unison, which helps kids know if it interests them or not. If this is cut, it is up to the parents to buy and schedule lessons for that introduction. I'm okay with that, but not if a few kids playing games is still fully funded. I was just giving my reasons for disliking the current option. If both need cut, so be it. And no, I am not a prefect parent.......heck, I'm not even a perfect parent ☺
You know what was inexpensive and effective?? Chalkboards!!
I realize that they don't take as much tech support or as many updates as a Smartboard, but still...........
As for the numbers on the list I posted earlier, I am appalled. The most money is being cut from the bottom of the pay scale...how does that work?
Of the $2,025,476 that was reported in December as US253 administration salaries, $23,000 is 1.14%. If you were to take this $23,000 from only John Heim, his annual salary would still be $310,000.
http://www.emporiagazette.com/news/20...
Someone (or several someones) aren't trying very hard here.
February 24, 2010 at 2:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Chevy_Guy (anonymous) says...
oh4theluvof
The link you gave lists Dr. Heims' salary as $133,330, not $333,000. Is that a typo or does he get paid more than he reported he does? Either way he could live better than most of us with a 20% pay cut.
February 24, 2010 at 3:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
flush....
What's with all the assumptions......Navy enlistment.....not the draft......early Nam era but not in Nam...did look down the barrel of soviet naval guns while standing blockade duties off Cuba during the Cuban missile crisis. You were also the one that was making the ridiculous statements about veterans hiding behind flutes...where did that come from. And what in hell does it have to do with whether or not we cut some sports to save some arts. Finally, if your doomsday scenario comes to pass we shouldn't be funding education in any thing other than hand grenades.
Last...I full well realize that my service had nothing to compare with your time in Nam...nor did it have anything similar to service in WWII.....where one of my uncles died and my father was a pow. But that does not disqualify me from stating my opinion and I will continue to do so.
I truly thank you for your service....but again....what does any of that have to do with where we cut education spending today?
February 24, 2010 at 3:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justaflushaway (anonymous) says...
"';But that does not disqualify me from stating my opinion and I will continue to do so".
my thoughts also
February 24, 2010 at 4:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
Yes, Chevy_Guy, I messed that up. I think I did the other math right, but you got my point...1% just won't cut it and there is plenty more there. Remember, most of those salaries are one of two incomes in their households. When one of theirs is triple what the 1½ in my household of four is, I know they have plenty extra and a cut will not hurt them. I understand that they went to school and have valuable knowledge, but I think it is a little over-valued when it is impeding the very function that they are supposed to be facilitating.
February 24, 2010 at 4:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
irishemporia (anonymous) says...
Frazzeled: why wasn't cutting salaries part of the original consideration? Seems to me that would have been a good place to start.
February 24, 2010 at 4:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
pizza (anonymous) says...
Why has no one mentioned that ridiculous athletic field. Isn't that supposed to cost $1.6 million? There is enough right there to cover this year. Leave the teachers and workers alone. There are way too many administrators with way high salaries. If they can't figure out how to make the budget work then let them help pay for it. Afterall aren't we trying to teach students rather than setting up cushy administrator jobs?
February 24, 2010 at 7:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
Another idea that I was told tonight that has caught Heim's attention that wasn't reported here is that of putting a 4th through 6th (2 total) in each of the Lowther buildings and closing two elementary buildings.
Not one I'm sold on yet.
February 24, 2010 at 8:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
Pizza
The Astro turf is supposed to be part of a grant. If it is part of a grant, the $1.6M (no matter how stupid or useless it is) is a mute point. You can only spend grant money on the project that it was written for.
We all might as well quit pissing and moaning about salary reductions also. Not that I don't think that it should happen, but we are looking for $1.4 M.
10% of the administration is only $210,000, we still need (according to them) another $1.2M.
I don't think you'll get 10% out of the teachers or the admin. anyway.
There was only one thing mentioned in PBB's recs. about cutting fine arts and that was the 4th/5th grade orchestra. Forget it it it was only $34,000 any how.
The real cuts are in raising class sizes.
PBB recognized $1M just by raising class sizes by 1.5 or 2 kids.
So lets raise class size and make a cool million.
We have 23 supprintendants, princilpes and assistants,associates and what ever in administration.
Get rid of 5 of them @ an average salary of around $90K.
That's another $450K.
So now we've come up with $1.45M and haven't even cut anyone's salary. Plus we still have all the other stuff they taked about. We might get over $2M without even trying.
There are so many inefficienies left to cut it should be easy.
Now before you all say the kids will suffer, I say wrong.
1 or 2 more kids per class is nothing.
If a teacher can't do his/her job with 20 kids in class then those are the ones that should go.
As for Ms. Strickland talking about morale, if I was a teacher I'd rather have 2 more kids and the same salary than take a pay cut.
February 24, 2010 at 8:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
alfalfa (anonymous) says...
School administrators all over the state are telling people "call your legislators". I wonder if they ever stop to think that when we call we may be saying, "no matter what, don't raise taxes". The money well is running a little on the dry side now, and schools are going to have to suck it up like everyone else does. I guess if I had to choose between a pay cut and no job, I would take the pay cut.
February 24, 2010 at 10:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
tbluma...damned good post and good ideas. No yang this time buddy.
February 25, 2010 at 2:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
Thanks Bisquit
I see we won't have to worry about 2 of the 5 admin. I was talking about. One resigned last night and one is going to retire.
Now let's hope that they just don't replace them.
February 25, 2010 at 8:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
tbluma,
Your ideas make sense as far as class size and cutting admin.
However the school board should also cut a little more from the remaining admin wage scale and maybe a couple more ideas from the pbb. They shouldn't assume that things will be better next budget. If there are inefficiencies they should be cut, no matter what the budget revenue is. It's the whole mindset that has put school districts in this position. "IF WE DON'T SPEND THE MONEY THIS YEAR, WE WILL GET LESS NEXT YEAR."
February 25, 2010 at 10:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
Agreed Steve that's why I said there were plenty more inefficiencies to get us up to $2M.
The don't spend it attitude is precisely why I asked earlier in this forum if they were short of budget or short on actual spending and pointed out that they consistantly have budgeted more for instruction by over $3M average in the last 3 yrs. than what was actually spent.
This is also what the people who want to raise taxes should consider. If the board didn't have the money in the past they wouldn't be so over staffed now.
Kinda like the movie Field of Dreams
Build it and people will come.
We need to do away with the spend it if we got it attidue.
February 25, 2010 at 10:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
77flint (anonymous) says...
The one who resigned last night was not an administrator. He was principal of Walnut. Principals are not consider administrators. The higher ups in the District Offices are administrators.
February 25, 2010 at 10:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
77
They were an associate principal and a principal.
They're salaries were listed with 21 others as administration when published in the gazette.
I also believe a person needs a degree in administration to be a principal. So as far as I'm concerned they're admin. If you're right it mkes me no difference IMO still think there are too many of them.
February 25, 2010 at 11:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
77flint,
from the esd253 website;
2009-2010 Employees
Administration FTE
Superintendent 1.0
Central Office Administrators 5.0
Flint Hills Special Education Coop.
Administrators 1.0
Principals and Assistant Principals 16.0
So I think principals are considered administators.
At least by ESD253.
February 25, 2010 at 2:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
77flint (anonymous) says...
The post I commented on, tbluma's post states that 2 of the 5 are gone which by your numbers means the COA not principals. You may think you are right about so many things but your not. Just so you know because of your previous post and reputation, I could give a rat's @@@ what you have to say about anything even if I agree with you.
But yes the high and middle school have to many PRINCIPLES and yes the top six need to take a pay cut.
February 25, 2010 at 3:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yev_kassem (anonymous) says...
I am going to defend the people who served on the PBB. I served on that a few years ago. It is a joke. The PBB is handed a list of items on a budget with a number beside them. Then they are told that we need to cut X% out of the budget. So you look down the list and look at the total $ numbers you need to find and match it up.
No one really takes into consideration what you are cutting. The aren't told why certain depts need certain things or what the reprecussions are for what they decide. It really is more of a math thing than anything. Sure, some people have certain things that they will not cut, mainly self serving items so the group goes on to the next item.
Then when all the groups are done making their cuts, they all vote on which ones are the most important. So now we have a list of the top 10 or 12 things recommended by the PBB. However, when I served, that list miraculously changed from the time the PBB met to the time of the board meeting.
It is a joke and pretty much a worthless committee.
Yes, the district needs to involve the public in these decisions and the theory behind the PBB is great. It is just not the way it works in the real world.
February 25, 2010 at 3:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
it's nice to engage you in a thoughtful discussion flint77.
February 25, 2010 at 3:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
77
I was not refering to the 5 central office admin.
I was lumping the whole total of 23 together.
The average salary of those 23 is about $90K.
I said 5 of the total could go for a saving's of $450K.
Principals are considered admin., if however you are right and they aren't (it makes no difference to me). I was not refering to your opinion. I was reiterating that I think there are too many principals. Sorry if you thought it was a jab at you.
February 25, 2010 at 4:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
Steve
I beleive on another thread you or some one mentioned a savings of $1.4M by just an across the board cut of 4%.
I guess that would be fine but it still doesn't address the fact that it appears we are over staffed. If we're going to look into the future we might as well strike while the iron is hot and pare down the whole thing.
February 25, 2010 at 5:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
tbluma,
Posted by admireed (anonymous) on February 24, 2010 at 9:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
A 4% cut in all salary budgets would equal $1,454,555
Edward McKernan
Once again you are correct, and while Ed's suggestion of an across the board cut would be the easy way to do things I think a 4% cut would be a lot harder on a teacher making say 45,000.00 a year than it would be on a super making 133,000.00 a year.
I'm with you on this. It's time to cut and cut aggressively .
and it seems a lot of the cutting can be done at the staffing level, just as private business does when times are hard.
February 26, 2010 at 6:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )