Emporia school board members discussed their reluctance to make budget cuts that would affect students’ educations as they met in a study session Friday afternoon at the Mary Herbert Learning Center.
The board discussed at length a list of budget cuts recommended by the Performance-Based Budget team and an addendum of cuts proposed by district administrators.
A series of cuts in per-pupil state aid has forced the board to look at finding ways to remove a minimum of $1.4 million from the district’s budget. State aid had been $4,400 at the start of the previous school year; it dropped to $4,218 in November and now stands at $4,012.
“So that $1.4 million is our new target to get even for this year,” said Superintendent John Heim. “... Now, this does not include any additional cuts that might be made between now and the end of the session, so we’re still living in limbo on that.”
The worst-case scenario, if anticipated state deficits cause another round of state aid cuts, would be $2.1 million, he said.
Heim gave the board a spreadsheet of proposed cuts recommended by the PBB and others recommended by administrators.
The PBB recommendations, if all were approved, would reduce the budget by $1,743,980; the administrators’ cuts, if all were approved, would reduce the budget by $1,153,000.
Beside the list of potential cuts were four columns, in which savings from the recommendations were broken out into separate categories.
The first column — Savings — provided estimated savings if all of the recommendations were approved, for a total of $2,896,980 in reductions.
The second column — Feb. 24 Action — broke out the savings from recommendations the administration proposed be considered at the next action meeting of the board on Wednesday, Feb. 24. The total was $1,420,000.
The third column — Implement Later — contained the amounts of savings from cuts that the administration recommended be considered later. The total was $350,000.
The fourth column — Defer — showed estimated savings from cuts the administration recommended be deferred. The total was $510,000. The fourth column included 1 percent salary reductions across-the-board.
The three break-out column totals do not correspond with the initial Savings column because a total of $250,000 from eliminating five elementary teaching positions was not added in, nor was $231,000 estimated as potential savings from certified salary reductions, which cannot not be implemented without approval from the teachers’ union, because of the negotiated contract.
Some of the recommendations were more palatable than others.
A more aggressive energy conservation effort could save an estimated $100,000; it was included on the Feb. 24 Action column.
Increasing building-use fees could bring in an extra $5,000, and bumping up admission to the Seasonal Celebration from $2 to $3 could raise $3,000. Pursuing sponsorships for the program also was suggested.
Also on the PBB list categorized for Feb. 24 Action were:
• increasing class sizes at Emporia High School, with a reduction of eight positions for a total of $400,000;
• instituting a similar change at Emporia Middle School, reducing staff by six full-time equivalency positions, $300,000;
• reducing up to two FTE positions each at the Lowther buildings, depending upon enrollment, for a $200,000 savings;
• reducing one music position through more-efficient scheduling, $50,000;
• reducing transportation by combining events, $5,000;
• implementing pay to play at EMS and improving collection of fees at EHS, $2,000; and
• combining library and building technology support positions to save $165,000.
Studying closing a building at kindergarten through sixth level also was recommended by the PBB; however, no estimate of savings was available.
The administrators’ list of possible additional reductions recommended under the Feb. 24 Action column were:
• reorganizing Mary Herbert Education Center staff, with savings to date of $50,000;
• reducing building budgets by 2.5 percent for $45,000 in savings;
• reduce six teacher aides at EHS for $90,000;
• increase average kindergarten through Grade 4 class size from 19 to 20, depending upon enrollment, for $100,000 savings; and
• renegotiate the service center membership and management contracts for a $10,000.
Among the PBB recommendations not included in the Feb. 24 Action column were:
• ending district funding for after-school programs, not including Extended Learning Time and PTO childcare, $235,000;
• partnering with the Emporia Recreation Commission to continue those services, for a savings of $135,000;
• leaving the department chair and team leader positions unfilled to reduce secondary activity/supplemental costs, $36,000;
• eliminating fourth- and fifth-grade orchestras, $34,000;
• eliminating after-school program bus routes, $ 22,000; and
• eliminating transportation of students who live between 1.5 and 2.5 miles from school, $51,980.
Heim said that school administrators will determine a minimum class size for EHS. Board members discussed how some of the smaller elective classes might be handled, if the minimum number were not reached. Art teacher Alan Keck, for example, already teaches an advanced glass-blowing class while running his ceramics class at the same time. The total number of students would meet the minimum class size.
If numbers were not great enough in some classes, those classes might be held every other year instead of annually.
Basic classes, such as English, might see class sizes increase. Heim used his son’s English class, with 13 students, as an example. There are numerous other English classes in which students could enroll.
“We’re not going to offer an English class for 13 kids when there’s 12 others available,” Heim said.
Associate Superintendent of Personnel M. Theresa Davidson said that class size at EHS averaged 14.5 students; the changes would raise average class numbers to 16, though some teaching positions would be eliminated
“Hopefully, we can do it through attrition,” Heim said.
The district recently offered a one-time Voluntary Early Retirement Program to all staff who qualify, with a March 1 deadline for notifying the district.
The board discussed using a traditional junior-high schedule instead of the team approach at EMS.
“If you went to a straight junior high schedule, you could cut 12 full positions,” Heim said.
“But I thought we went to teaming to make sure kids didn’t get lost in the schedule,” board member Angie Schreiber said.
Several of the board members said they were concerned about making cuts in fine arts, without having suggestions from the teachers involved. Some music teachers travel from school to school instead of being site-based.
Heim said that on the revenue-enhancement side of the budget, the district could bring in an additional $1 million from the state — if funds were available — by securing English as a Second Language endorsements for all certified teaching staff.
The district pays tuition for its teachers for the ESL classes, but does not pay for textbooks. Upon completion of the courses, the teacher receives $1,000, and an additional $1,000 at the time of certification and annually in subsequent years.
An estimated $787,000 could come into the revenue stream by moving 4 mills back to the capital outlay fund and increasing the supplemental general fund.
nks (anonymous) says...
If I remember correctly, the program on Wednesday that requires an early release was costing a pretty good chunk of change. I was on the PBB last year and was basically told this was off limits. Is this necessary? I have several friends that are teachers dont believe so.
If we didnt have to have so many work/inservice days, that would be that many more days per year the utitilies in the buildings would not be in use.
Also, has it ever been brought up to pay for Quest/ Most people will have to pay to take their kids to day care after school is out. Maybe the school could turn this into a money maker???
February 20, 2010 at 1:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
alsrac (anonymous) says...
Wondering how much it would be saved by reducing the superintendent and principals salaries...instead of reducing so many positions.
February 20, 2010 at 1:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
If the PBB came up with $1.7M in cuts what's the problem?
Get it done. If they don't what did they waste the time of the people on the PBB for to begin with?
February 20, 2010 at 2:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
alsrac
5% cut in all admin. (guesstimate because not sure of they're definition of admin.) would be around $100,000.
On another note, I don't see the problem with raising the average class size from 14.5 to 16. That alone is $400K.
Another
$90K by eliminating 6 teacher aides (if a teacher only has 14.5 students what the hell do they need an aide for anyway)
February 20, 2010 at 2:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Wait a minute. According to the following statement, " A more aggressive energy conservation effort could save an estimated $100,000; it was included on the Feb. 24 Action column. "
I may be wrong, but didn' t the school board and school administration just receive a $6 million stimulus grant, to be used for energy conservation ? Of which $ 1.6 million is to be spent on an idiotic artificial turf field, which leaves $4.4 million to be used for energy conversation upgrades and now the School Board and School Administrators are estimating that by spending $6 million the energy savings will be only $ 100,000 ! Seems like that is not a very good return on a $ 6 million taxpayer funded investment, which will have to be paid back by the taxpayers, no matter how you look at it . If that is how high paid elected officials and administrators run things, it is no wonder the Country, States, Countys, Citys and Towns and their taxpayers are going broke !
Good grief if the school board/administrators saved $100,000 per year, it would take 60 years for the $6 million investment to pay for itself and that is if the energy costs stayed the same and didn' t increase. Now how may of you/us think that energy/utility rates are going to stay the same or decrease anytime soon ?
Did I misunderstand the amount of energy savings, thru a aggressive energy conservation effort ? To me a $ 6 million energy conservation effort is an aggressive effort for a school district the size of Emporia's and the savings does not seem to be that much and 60 years is a long time to recoup the money invested.
February 20, 2010 at 3:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mslater (Matt Slater) says...
I'm not a mathematician, but "$1.4 million is our new target to get even for this year,”
and the artificial turf field is going to cost $1.4 million
Therefore
$1,400,000 - $1,400,000 = 0
Is this right? Like I said, I'm not good with math, however...
February 20, 2010 at 11:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
kciddor (anonymous) says...
In previous publications they showed the total number of administration and assistants in each school and administration office that they had salaries alone being paid in excess of $2.2 million. None of those postitions are for teachers. As far as I've been able to find out there isn't any law that says this has anything to do with "leaving no child behind" nor is it required. There are many jobs and manufactures that have left this country mainly because of the high cost of labor. UNIONS. Nobody but the school boards have allowed this to happen to our schools and some say they have no choice because of the NEA. BS on that. Just try shutting down the schools because of that and see what happens. For years we have given the Schools, City, County, State and Federal government a blank check for years. Enough is enough.
February 21, 2010 at 9:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
EMPORIA SCHOOL BOARD!
CUT THE ADMINISTRATORS SALARIES 10%
If they don't like it they can quit and you can re-hire at 25% less than what they are getting paid.
COME ON
IT'S FOR THE KIDS!
February 21, 2010 at 5:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nks (anonymous) says...
When sitting on the PBB meetings, anytime certain areas were brought up for cuts, you could tell you were going to be beating yourself against a brick wall.
February 21, 2010 at 6:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
getabrain (anonymous) says...
I notice that a majority of these suggested cuts are aimed at the schools and educational staff. Did anyone look at our administration costs in this district? I struggle to see how the smaller districts can be run with a couple of secretaries and a single superentendant while Emporia needs directors of: builings and grounds, transportation, food service, elementary education, secondary education, personel, etc..., etc.... all with staff and support personel. I would think that at least one of these positions could be combined for a significant savings but, it appears that cuts will not be coming at the administrative level. By all means let's make cuts that affect the education of our children as long as we don't cause any discomfort for the administrators of our district.
February 22, 2010 at 6:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Mike Crouch
mcrouch@fhtc.edu
(620) 342-8006
Riles, Grant
grriles@wcnoc.com
(620) 343-3833
Schreiber, Angie
mschreiber@sbcglobal.net
(620) 342-69
Strickland, Glen
Glen.Strickland@usd253.org
(620) 342-2676
Windsor, Brent
bmzwindsor@cableone.net
(620) 343-8695
Helbert, Michael
Mike.Helbert@usd253.org
(620) 343-2688
Scheller, Amy
dscheller@cableone.net
(620) 343-8117
Call or e-mail before Wed. night meeting let them know what YOU think.
CUT ADMIN SALARIES 10 %
IT'S FOR THE CHILDREN!
February 22, 2010 at 7:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
truelovecharlie (anonymous) says...
I could save the distric so much money in a very short period of time. The should reduce the class offerings to basic educational requirements. When I went to EHS our average class size was 25+ and we didn't have teacher assistant's unless it was a college student doing there practicum. Many of the electives serve no realistic purpose of educating the children in order to go into the real world and secure real, life supporting jobs. Glass blowing and pottery? Make these kinds of classes available at the V0-Tech. Increase the class sizes to 20 students and reduce the amount of electives; thereby, reducing the number of staff needed. As for sports; I have always believed too much money is spent on sports. The expenses of all the traveling and support items is excessive. How many EHS students actually get sports scholarships? Do away with out-of-district sprots competitions. There are enough students to do the old intra-mural sports and stay right in town. Life has been too good for too long and the administrations don't know how to quickly reduce expenditures. Go back to the basics! It was good enough for all of us that graduated and went on to be successful for many, many years.
February 22, 2010 at 8:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
getabrain (anonymous) says...
On a related note. I have noticed for years that the gazette has faithfully reported the salaries of our top administrators. What I would like to know is what our administrators actually cost us. Does the director of public information for the district think we are foolish enough not to realize that benefit packages can be a substantial portion of an administrator's salary. In the future, I would like to know what our administrators cost us. This includes: taxpayer provided pension contributions, vehicle allowance, health and life insurance and all the other perks that are provided above and beyond their salaries. This would provide the reader with a true picture of what administration costs the taxpayer.
February 22, 2010 at 8:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
koalemos (anonymous) says...
Are we really teaching these children what they will need to be successful adults? US Prison population is the highest in the world and 1 in every 31 adults in the US is either in prison or on parole. We need to round up every student and sit them in an auditorium at least one day each week and have convicts teach them what they will need to know once they are arrested for a consensual victimless crime later in their life. So, If you go to a four day school week and one day each week is convict lectures, we will only have to pay school employees for a three day work week and we can cut out insurance and paid leave because they are no longer full time workers.
February 22, 2010 at 8:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ksfan (anonymous) says...
I would just like to comment that the teacher's aides do not work for one specific teacher. They work for departments. So they are working for anywhere between 10-30 teachers at a time. They do alot more than what people think. Getting rid of them will take away the teachers' support. If the class sizes are going to increase, the support cannot be taken away as well.
February 22, 2010 at 9:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yev_kassem (anonymous) says...
ksfan--
Kind of interesting that you are ok with taking away fully educated teachers in support of the teacher's aids. No offense to any of the aids out there but I would rather keep the teachers. Maybe move the teacher to the aid position.
February 22, 2010 at 9:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ksfan (anonymous) says...
I am not okay with anyone leaving, certainly not the teachers. I am simply clarifying some earlier statements that teacher's aides are not needed since the class sizes are only at 14.5 students. Everyone within the disctrict serves a purpose and I am merely suggesting if you don't know what that purpose is, you have no room to comment on what that individual does or whether or not they are needed.
February 22, 2010 at 10:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Yes, teachers' aides do serve a particular purpose. As ksfan says, aides work for specific departments. One department in particular is Special Ed. Aides are there in the regular classroom so that the Special Ed student can be INCLUDED. Remember Inclusion? That's a mandate, folks.
February 22, 2010 at 10:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yev_kassem (anonymous) says...
I have been in several classrooms that have had aides for certain special needs students. I have not been very impressed by what they do. The ones I have seen might sit next to the student but interact with them very little. In fact, in one of the classes, I witnessed the aide do nothing and the teacher of the class have to go over and give individual instruction with the student which defeats the purpose of the aid. The aide is there so that the teacher can give normal instruction to all students with out interruptions.
I am not saying that all aides are like this but the few I have witnessed did not do their job so those few anyway would not be a loss to the distict at all.
February 22, 2010 at 11:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ksfan (anonymous) says...
I would also like to distinguish the difference between a teachers aide and a para. Paras are the ones who normally sit in the classes with the individual students who need them. Teachers Aides are there specifically for the teachers and they are not in the classroom. They are working outside the classroom for the department they are designated to...
February 22, 2010 at 11:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mslater (Matt Slater) says...
ksfan,
Don't feel bad, you're not the only one in the district trying to justify your job right now.
I do agree with Steve, though. 10% cut for administrator pay sounds like an excellent idea.
February 22, 2010 at 11:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
IT'S FOR THE CHILDREN!
February 22, 2010 at 11:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Quack (anonymous) says...
If they are cutting arts/music staff & programs, etc when are they going to cut coaches in athletics?
February 22, 2010 at noon ( permalink | suggest removal )
mslater (Matt Slater) says...
Quack,
I doubt the athletic programs/coaches see a cut in pay/budget, because athletics provide something positive for the school.
February 22, 2010 at 12:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
koalemos (anonymous) says...
Music can lift the heart: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwAbti...
February 22, 2010 at 12:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mslater (Matt Slater) says...
Yeah, I'm just stirring the pot.
February 22, 2010 at 12:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mslater (Matt Slater) says...
http://www.motivatedphoto.com/?id=2986
February 22, 2010 at 12:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mslater (Matt Slater) says...
http://www.despair.com/potential.html
February 22, 2010 at 12:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
koalemos (anonymous) says...
It's too late for I'm sorry...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1qKFk...
February 22, 2010 at 12:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Now come on guys. You know if they cut out athletics, the million dollars plus they spent to carpet a vacant lot would have been a waste of money.....and we all know how the board feels about wasting our money.
February 22, 2010 at 2:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
admireed (anonymous) says...
Replace the word "cuts" with "tax relief"
Edward McKernan
February 22, 2010 at 3:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nks (anonymous) says...
I hate to see anyone lose their jobs, but face it, it is happening and many of us have seen it up close and personal. If it needs done then do it. It shouldnt matter if your title is teacher, janitor, administrator, administrative asst, etc....
When I was young, we had anywhere from 15-20 students in our class with no aides, no specialists, instructional coaches, etc....
Why are they needed now?I would hope today's teacher is equipped with better technology that would help them perform their planning, grading etc... quicker than teachers of 15-20 years ago.
February 22, 2010 at 6:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
How does that old saying go ? " Waste Not, Want Not " or is it " Want Not, Waste Not" ! Doesn' t seem to mean much today !
February 22, 2010 at 7:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodjoss (anonymous) says...
These comments are about the 3rd time I've seen the term "Vo-Tech" referenced. What is Vo-Tech?
February 22, 2010 at 8:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
goodjoss
Vo-tech, stands for Vocational Technical College .
February 22, 2010 at 8:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
goodjoss
It is a College that teaches various vocational and technical skills .
February 22, 2010 at 8:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Uh ............... Please don't question the government.
Thank you.
February 22, 2010 at 10:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
booker5m (anonymous) says...
Seriouslyfolks--That sounds more like th Omans line
February 23, 2010 at 6:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Oh excuse me.....I know President Bush was the only one to ever have negative things said about him....and only Democrats ever said them.
February 23, 2010 at 6:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Iraq has weapons of mass destruction....Trust me....
February 23, 2010 at 6:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
koalemos (anonymous) says...
Dog poop wars are cool
February 23, 2010 at 7:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
If the government says we need to carpet a field then we need to carpet a field. It is just that simple. If they don't have enough money to do what they want to do then no big whoop, just raise taxes and if that's not enough or they want to do more stuff then raise them some more. Why not!? The government has a bottomless well of money, all they have to do is say "abracadaver Shaquille Kazam O'Neal raise taxes!" and more money comes springing forth like nobodies business. It's pretty much like magic or Karate. But where Karate means empty handed the government has fists full of dollars. Anyway before I ramble too far from my point, basically if you question the astroturf ....... uh ...... yeah ........ you are ....... uh ........ kinda ....... uh ...... racist ..... yeah.
February 23, 2010 at 9:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodjoss (anonymous) says...
Wow, I asked my friend who works at FHTC about "Vo-Tech" and she said it hasn't been a vocational school for, like 20 years.
Sorry to get off topic - live and learn (or not).
Well, I'm off to class at the Normal School!
; )
February 23, 2010 at 9:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
les_herschler (anonymous) says...
I looked up an earlier article on the practice field. IF what Mr. Crouch says is true (not doubting his word), then perhaps it is not such a bad deal. However, I hope someone will closely monitor the savings to see if it was truly a worthwhile investment. I hope my optimism is not misplaced...
"On Thursday, Mike Crouch answered questions from Gazette readers in an online chat. This is the transcript of that session.
Q Why does the board think it is necessary to spend $1.6 million on Astroturf for a practice field?
A I supported the field improvement project because I believe it is a good investment for our students and our community. First, the improvements will involve much more than new turf; we will have a new football and soccer field and a new track. Lighting and additional seating is part of the project.
Secondly, this is not a practice field. Many teams will use it as their primary playing field. Currently, the field is overused and unsafe, and the track has been out of use for several years due to its poor condition. Artificial turf has no limits on its use, so it will not be damaged by ongoing use by middle and high school football and soccer, physical education classes, band practice and Emporia Recreation Commission activities.
For the first time in many years, the middle and high school track teams will have a track to practice on and a place to host meets. The complex will be available for post-season tournaments which draw visitors to our city. At the same time, we will save approximately $42,000 a year in watering, mowing, reseeding and field preparation.
The field turf is part of a much bigger energy conservation project that will be completed across the district next summer. Equipment upgrades will allow us to save energy costs with more efficient lighting, HVAC systems, water systems and new windows. Custom Energy guarantees us a saving of $7 million over 20 years. These savings will be put back into the general fund and used for instruction — teacher salaries, textbooks, classroom supplies and other student supports.
The district also has taken advantage of a very low-cost financing option through the federal stimulus program that can be paid for with the existing capital outlay levy. No tax increase will be needed locally."
February 23, 2010 at 9:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
koalemos (anonymous) says...
Custom Energy Services LLC of Overland Park is owned by ConEdison Solutions whose main office is in New York. They go around convincing school boards and other entities entitled to government money to accept free money for energy projects and show the school how they will save money and not have to go through bidding processes and allow ConEdison to keep the cash from the grant in return for a plastic football field, a new light switch, a biomass boiler, or a new roof. Custom Energy boasts not having any customers. They refer to their suckers as clients instead. When we are not happy with the project and tell them that they didn’t save us what they guaranteed we would save, they will point out in the contract that we didn’t purchase their ongoing consulting services and offer us a long term consulting contract for a fee. They are really good at selling crap but in the end they get the cash and we get whatever they decide to give us and we cannot do anything about it because we signed the contract. Well, our gullible representatives signed it anyway.
February 23, 2010 at 10:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
I tell my neighbors that have dogs that their dogs are welcome to poop in my yard...and then they reciprocate by telling me that I am welcome to poop in their yards also. We are very neighborly about poop in my neighborhood. But if we invested in artificial turf the fertilizing benefits of poop would certainly be lost....that's something the Board members might have considered.
And you thought I was heading off topic didn't you.....?
February 23, 2010 at 11:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Oh....my bad......I should have said they reciprocate by telling me that my dogs can poop in their yards.....not me....
But I guess if they let me poop in their yards I would be O-K with their coming over and pooping in my yard also. Just trying to be neighborly here.
February 23, 2010 at 11:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
koalemos (anonymous) says...
TEG’s remark about the picture of the tombstones goes:
“Probably upset about stray dogs leaving surprises in their yard a homeowner on Lawrence leaves a sign in the yard with a tongue in cheek warning.”
What if the stray dogs can’t read?
Kind of like the School Board who signed the deal with Custom Energy Solutions LLC. They really should have read the fine print (or at least done a google search) before accepting a carpet that stray dogs will poop on.
February 23, 2010 at 11:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
And thereby losing the fertilizing value the stray dogs so generously provided for them.....good doggies....good boys and girls....
February 23, 2010 at 12:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
There is nothing the government hasn't considered so to question their decision making isn't very considerate.
Uh .................... please don't question the government.
Thank you.
February 23, 2010 at 12:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
First of all," Custom Energy guarantees us a saving of $7 million over 20 years. " I certainly hope that the guarantee of a $7 million saving over 20 years by Custom Energy is/was in an iron clad written gaurantee and I hope that if the guaranteed savings does not amount to $7 million that there is a clause in said guarantee that Custom Energy will have to pay to give the school board/district any short fall that is less than the guaranteed $7 million dollars.
I also hope that Custon Energy also explained the extra cost of special care and maintenance involved with maintaining an artificial turf field . An artificial turf field does require special maintenance and special maintenance equipment, which also can be very pricey .
I just don' t think that there was enough study done on the pros and cons of an artificial turf field.
February 23, 2010 at 1:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
koalemos (anonymous) says...
I don’t question the government. The government is US. The people who represent us should be made aware of the corporations and conglomerates of a greedy private sector will tempt the good people in the government tricking them into making bad decisions with the pretense of something for nothing. But, all of us who have experienced a half century or more of life can attest to the fact that there is no such thing as something for nothing. Everything comes with a price.
February 23, 2010 at 1:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
"At their ideal implementation, socialism and laissez faire capitalism will be identical as everyone will produce exactly what's needed for exactly who needs it. In practice, both work sometimes in microeconomic conditions but fail miserably when applied to national and international economies. And they fail for the same reason: Human perversity. Too many people don't like to play fair, and both systems only work when everyone follow the same rules."
That statement came from a treatise on socialism vs. communism but the principle applies here as well Governments and the business they deal with only work well as long as both sides play fair....But that virtually never happens. More common is the situation where a business is screwing an overworked and understaffed government....or government is placing undue rules and restrictions on business...or both business and the politicians that we elect to run government are working together to screw us. And this is true whether the economic delivery system is socialist or capitalist. It works both ways.
February 23, 2010 at 2:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
This is the link to the above statement
http://www.romm.org/soc_com.html
February 23, 2010 at 2:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
Bisquit
I believe the part about gov. putting undue rules and restrictions on business.
But I have a hard time fathoming an understaffed or overworked gov. in todays world.
February 23, 2010 at 3:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
tbluma
How about a handful of investigators to oversee all the bad paper that was written by the mortgage industry . How about less that twenty people working to investigate schemes like Bernie Madoff's Ponzi plan across the entire nation. That's just a start.
February 23, 2010 at 3:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Sorry, I got called away for a minute and cut my answer short.
At the local level the advantage of business over government gets markedly more pronounced. National firms like Custom Energy, with their suites full of high paid sales executives waving contracts written by New York lawyers specializing in corporate law, go up against some local board or commission consisting of volunteer or only part time people who have other lives and concerns to deal with.
This David and Goliath scenario is definitely tilted in favor of business over and understaffed and overworked government.
February 23, 2010 at 4:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
There is going to be some of each, however if the gov. would quit making so damn many rules then there wouldn't be the need for so many gov. personel.
I happen to believe that the gov. said we need to make it possible for poor people to own their own home so you bad bankers need to loan them the money. Many people who couldn't afford the homes then went into forecloser. Therefore the need for people to investigate the 'bad mortgages' as you called it" was a gov. made need.
One of the biggest examples of the gov. not doing anything is the DOE, I beleive it was formed arround 1973 or so. It's purpose was to make us less dependant on energy. I would hazard a guess that their budget and staff is now many times the size of when it was formed and they still haven't acomplised diddly.
But as I said for every ying of mine you will have a yang so this could go on for ever.
February 23, 2010 at 4:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Oh there is plenty of blame to go around. Yes the government did make it possible for the bad paper mortgages to be written in the first place in a misguided attempt to increase home ownership and keep the economy smoking......but the business community as a whole were not breaking their necks to complain while the builders and bankers were raking in the big bucks off the ensuing housing boom.
Then when AIG decided to start bundling all this paper up and peddling it off overseas in clear violation of SEC policy, the SEC investigatory staff was to small and overworked to even understand what they were doing much less complain about it until the whole house of cards collapsed. I don't place all the blame on government nor do place it all on business...but like the statement I posted said....I do blame it all on people not playing by the rules. I'm less sure than you seem to be that doing away with more of the rules would help anything.
Yea, and isn't it great....as long as we disagree we have something to talk about.....:-)
February 23, 2010 at 5:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )