Lowther buildings to close, middle school will see addition
School board votes to accept configuration committee's recommendation
By Monica Springer
Wednesday, December 8, 2010
After a lengthy school board meeting the USD 253 Board of Education voted unanimously to close Lowther North and Lowther South intermediate schools.
The school board approved a configuration committee’s recommendation of moving fifth graders back to elementary buildings, to house sixth graders at the middle school and to build a $3.1 million addition on to Emporia Middle School.
Rob Scheib, assistant superintendent of business, said $1.7 million of the addition’s cost would come from stimulus money originally planned for the Lowther buildings. Another $1.1 million would come from the capital outlay budget, and the rest of the money, more than $300,000, would come from the district’s general and supplemental general fund.
Board members said before they voted that the money from the general and supplemental general fund could instead come from the capital outlay budget.
For more on this story, check Thursday’s edition of The Emporia Gazette.
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
oh well .
December 8, 2010 at 9:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
cab1198 (anonymous) says...
I'd like to hear from any parent who was present at this school board meeting. Was there a truly persuasive argument to justify not investing in the Lowther buildings? From where I sit, I cannot imagine one existing, but there are always two sides. Was there good representation at the meeting by the parents and citizens of Emporia? If I still lived there I'm afraid this is a meeting I wouldn't have missed.
December 8, 2010 at 10:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
SimpleGifts (anonymous) says...
Alas, I was ill and unable to attend tonight. Planned on it and am very upset that I could not be there.
Not at all surprised by the decision...but very disappointed. This is stupid.
December 8, 2010 at 10:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
slimbolen99 (anonymous) says...
So, what happens now with the Lowther buildings? Are they not useful for housing students? The exodus from central Emporia to NW Emporia continues. I thought the school districts were strapped for cash. Apparently not.
December 8, 2010 at 11:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Pinkpintopony (anonymous) says...
Hello cab1198. I was there as an employee. Not sure about how many parents were there. Lowther South and North were well represented by numbers. I personally felt like the argument was not very persuasive. The discussion got very off task towards the end....it actually got a little weird in my opinion. ANYWAY.....there will be a meeting in January that will be open for public comment. I'm not sure if the mtg will change anything. I was a little confused when I left.
December 8, 2010 at 11:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Boom (anonymous) says...
They never even asked for the students opinion, on this situation.....
December 9, 2010 at 6:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
hometownkid (anonymous) says...
Why has so much money been spent on those two buildings lately and now they are going to close them?? Also I thought I was told years ago when those buildings where the high school in town, that they moved kids outand built a new hight school because the buildings don't havebig enough stair ways
in case of a fire. Then they got used anyway for middle school kids anyway.
How does the school district spend money like this when they say money is so tight?? All I've heard for over a year is budget cuts, budget cuts, budget cuts !!! Now lets throw a couple of million around like pocket change.
Puzzling if you ask me..
December 9, 2010 at 7:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
matt (anonymous) says...
Forget about all this crap. Im off to go Deer Huntin, finally got some time off.
December 9, 2010 at 7:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Chevy_Guy (anonymous) says...
Someone will probably buy the buildings and convert them into churches.
Does anyone remember anything about a time capsule being put in a tunnel that connects these two buildings? I've been curious about that tunnel for a long time.
December 9, 2010 at 7:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mds (anonymous) says...
they should not close both lowthers schools
December 9, 2010 at 7:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
hometownkid
The only thing I can say is, If you live in Emporia long enough you will realize that is the way things are done and have been done in Emporia for decades and " bitching " and protesting about it, does absolutely no good at all.
You will also learn that it is not if you live in Emporia, but " WHERE " you live in Emporia that makes all the difference in the world !
December 9, 2010 at 8 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
p.s.
You will also learn that everyone in Emporia is " NOT " equal and everyone " DOES NOT " have the same rights, freedoms or influence or say in matters that will affect the lives of everyone who lives in Emporia and the area !
December 9, 2010 at 8:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
While not wanting to give up any ones identity it sure would be nice to see
oh4theluvof
to file for a school board seat.
December 9, 2010 at 8:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
i wouldn't mind seeing sail file for city commission, but I think they live back east somewhere.
December 9, 2010 at 8:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
I am sure glad i don't live out by the middle school. While moving the 6th graders will cut down on the traffic tie-ups downtown, it sure will add to them out west when all the parents drive out to pick up the kiddies.
December 9, 2010 at 8:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
koro (anonymous) says...
Methusla - It's not WHERE you live in Emporia...it's who you are. This town has a huge 'name' game going on...
December 9, 2010 at 9:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
AverageCitizen2 (anonymous) says...
The traffic over there is terrible already. Glad I moved to CG!
December 9, 2010 at 9:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
Fast decision, wonder who has plans for the buildings.........
December 9, 2010 at 9:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yev_kassem (anonymous) says...
Honestly, after reading how the district plans to pay for the buildings I am not that upset by the decision. It doesn't sound like they are expecting taxpayer to kick in any additional funds so that is a good thing.
If the committee looked at all the data and decided that this was the best move for the district and it doesn't cost us, the taxpayers, any additional money then I can't help but to support it.
December 9, 2010 at 10:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodjoss (anonymous) says...
I didn't attend the meeting last night. I know several of the 38 community members who served on the K-8 study for the last 9 months. I know a number of the BOE personally.
This was not an easy nor fast decision. Lots of scenarios were addressed in the K-8 study. I know this for fact. Not everyone agreed nor is currently in agreement on the planned action. I know this for fact.
I think what's missing in the community's comments (here in particular), is a lack of complete information.
The K-8 study group looked at EVERY single piece of district property. They looked at EVERY budget senario. They had EVERY principal contribute a feasibility study for their particular building. You cannot simply dismiss this fact. You don't know unless YOU participated.
Too often we only see the dollar signs. We don't seem to understand that every second of every day the district burns money on operation.
The rate of burn becomes critical in these tight budget times.
The district is going to 'pickle' the buildings and will still spend thousands of dollars maintaining basic heat and electricity. It will be a FRACTION of the current cost to maintain a learning center.
When I learned there are only 250 students in LNIS, my jaw dropped. That's almost 1/2 the number in my neighborhood elementary. What a COLOSSAL waste of money! I'm shocked this hasn't been addressed sooner. Now that I understand this, whenever I drive by the schools, I see little green dollars flying out the windows and flying away on the breeze, and I feel a little sick to my stomach.
Closing these buildings will save the district so much money, they can actually add on to the middle school and not have to ask for extra money.
This is what these brave volunteers on our BOE and K-8 Study group see fit to educate our children in the most efficient manner.
The fewer transitions are better for the kids, the resources in our neighborhood elementary and middle schools will be better utilized, and we will diminish the costs involved in operating & maintaining the incredibly inefficient buildings.
Both groups did right for this town and I salute them and their efforts. It is thankless work and I would imagine the baragge of less-than-informed comments don't help.
To the USD 253 BOE and K-8 Study Group: There are plenty of community members who understand what this took to move forward. Thank You for your service to our community.
December 9, 2010 at 10:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
goodjoss
What you don' t understand is the fact that there are several other schools that are aging, such as Logan Ave, Maynard, William Allen White, Mary Herbert, Walnut, Village, Turning Point Learning Ctr., Emporia High School etc., all of these schools and buildings are getting old and have some age on them ! Even the Middle School has aged and is no longer a New Building ! And are these schools in absolutely perfect, pristine, like new condition ?
Who will pay for any cost over-runs of constructing an addition onto the Middle School and if the BOE AND LCUSD, refises tp pay for any extra costs incured or not figured in the original estimates ?
What will happen is construction short cuts will be undertaken in order to bring the construction " IN " as per the proposed, quoted, cost !
It will not be long before the BOE and the LCUSD is making another excuse for asking for more money with which to build more schools, etc. no matter whether the taxpayers can afford it or not and that will definately mean tax increases for everyone !
This is not a dream or fairy tale world we live in, where everthing is cut and dried and a magic wand is waved and money falls from the " SKY " !
And then there is the following, " Anderson said it's estimated that Lowther South would cost $18,255 to mothball and Lowther North would cost $20,315. " Is this cost, total cost for as long as the buildings set moth balled or abandoned or is this, cost per year ?
If this is cost per year ... It makes no sense to pay this kind of money for so called " USLESS/WORTHLESS " shells, which would be just another example of unnecessary, " USLESS " spending of taxpayer money !!!!
You know, sometimes a plan that makes good sense to some, just does not make any sense at all to others !
It would seem that there is a movement that has been afoot in Emporia, for some time, that says if it is old, don' t maintain it in good useful condition, as it needs it, but rather abandon/mothball it, or tear it down, as it does not meet our idea of useful or build a new one regardless of cost or how many citizens it may place a hardship on !
Whats next, If we as an old or aging human/citizen will be looked upon as useless, rounded up and either sent to an " OLD USELESS CAMP " or sent to a " SOYLENT GREEN FACTORY " or if your house is old and doesn' t meet some ones certain standards will you be tossed out of it and your home " BULLDOZED " !!!
Is this the direction Emporia is headed ???? It would sure seem so !!!
December 9, 2010 at 11:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Another question that has not been asked is .... When this new addition has been completed and all the kids have been transitioned, how many teachers, etc., will lose their jobs or be furloughed ?
And since when did a new school building equate to more and better education ?
December 9, 2010 at 11:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
And another question that needs to be asked is,
After these buildings are mothballed/abandoned what will be done to keep these buildings from being vandalized, in order to keep them in some semblance of fair condition, in order to somewhat retain their " SALE " value and what would the cost of " Anti-Vandalism " measures cost ?
Are these costs accounted for in the Mothballing figures that Anderson quoted ?
Or does the BOE/LCUSD just plan to let these buildings detoriate and crumble and then try to sell them ?
You see people, there could be substantial costs involved in " Mothballing or Abandoning " these buildings ! Was this scenario ever considered by the BOE, STUDY COMMITEE or LCUSD ! Doesn' t really seem so !
Spend, Spend, Spend, Tax, Tax, Tax,
get what we want seems to be the only result of todays leadership and Study Committees ! Failure to look at the consider every action and its consequences also seems to be a result of leadership and Study Committees !
December 9, 2010 at 12:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
This is another perfect of the taxpayers, who by the way pay the bills, having something " Rammed " down their throats, whether we, the taxpayers, like it, want it or not !
December 9, 2010 at 12:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
goodjoss,
Your post did make me realize that there is a silver lining to all of this.
It is the board will be saving all of that money in utility costs, and also the probable employee lay-offs, (both are part of the general fund I think). If the state legislators cut funding to the local units in 2011 The board won't have to ask for a higher mill-levy, because of all the savings these closings offer.
So maybe this is a good deal?
December 9, 2010 at 12:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
GreatDayInEmporia (anonymous) says...
goodjoss, thank you for your insight and energy. Your interest in local education is appreciated. I wish I were closer to Emporia, so I could be involved, as well.
Flint Hills Technical Center is home to the Sustainable Living Center, and specializes in the promotion and implementation of energy efficiency. Their expertise could easily be utilized to make LNIS a beautiful and useful building, saving USD 253 money while creating a great learning environment and source of pride for Emporia. If attendance is down in both buildings, why not combine fifth and sixth grades in one building, utilizing a single support staff and maintaining a single attendance center? Tax incentives and grant support (state and federal) for sustainable preservation could also supplement local funding, making renovation an affordable and reasonable option.
The following is from the Whole Building Design Guide found on the National Institute of Building Sciences website, which uses LEED (Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design) standards set forth by the U.S. Green Building Council :
Historic buildings are inherently sustainable. Preservation maximizes the use of existing materials and infrastructure, reduces waste, and preserves the historic character of older towns and cities. The energy embedded in an existing building can be 39% (PDF 710 KB, 6 pgs) of the embedded energy of maintenance and operations for the entire life of the building. Sustainability begins with preservation.
Historic buildings were traditionally designed with many sustainable features that responded to climate and site. When effectively restored and reused, these features can bring about substantial energy savings. Taking into account historic buildings' original climatic adaptations, today's sustainable technology can supplement inherent sustainable features without compromising unique historic character.
Preserving a building is often called the ultimate recycling project, yet preservationists commonly fight the stigma that historic buildings are inefficient and require daunting corrective measures to retrofit for energy saving devices and systems. Green and sustainable design has become an increasingly popular issue in both the preservation and new construction industries. Preservation and green goals overlap, and reconciling their differences is possible, provided that both sides strive to be as creative and flexible as possible.
(http://www.wbdg.org/resources/sustain...)
December 9, 2010 at 12:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
I just can't wait till someone suggests turning the north building into a museum or city offices and turning the south building into the rec center annex.
December 9, 2010 at 12:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
The LCUSD superindent and companys' salaries will eat up this cost saving in less than a years time ! and have you forgotten the added expense of heating and cooling a 15,000 foot addition onto the Middle School !
What about the other schools that are old and aging ?
What about the rising costs of utilities, maintenance, supplies, etc.. ?
And the President said just this morning that if the compromise tax bill that is being fought over in D.C. does not pass each and every taxpayer will be paying more in taxes next year !!!!!
As I have said before nothing is cut and dried and there are consequences for every action that is not thouroughly thought out and every possibility considered !!!!
But then what do I know ???
No, goodjoss, every scenario, possibility, consideration or consequence was not well considered or thought out !
December 9, 2010 at 12:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
GreatDayInEmporia,
Your comment/info of " Historic buildings are inherently sustainable."
Is a waste of your time and breath, as it will fall upon deaf ears as far as the leadership of Emporia is concerned !
Sorry if I sound a bit cinical, but that is the way I have become, trying to fight this spend, tax and get rid of it if it is old mentality !
December 9, 2010 at 12:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
TexasGirl (anonymous) says...
Hey Steve, I kinda like the rec center idea...
I also like your school board suggestion of oh4theluvof. I will also throw my support behind seriouslyfolks. ;)
December 9, 2010 at 12:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
HenryVIII (anonymous) says...
Just move one of the tin cans from the fairgrounds over to the middle school location. Kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
'enry
December 9, 2010 at 1:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
TexasGirl (anonymous) says...
Good one, 'enry. I'm glad I'm not the only one that was seeing parallels in the two issues.
December 9, 2010 at 1:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
GreatDayInEmporia (anonymous) says...
Let's tear down everything in Lyon County built prior to 2000, and just start over. It would save so much money.
December 9, 2010 at 1:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tmt (anonymous) says...
Using the huts is not such a bad idea. When I went thru school at LSIS my team classrooms were outside in trailers. I think that was 7th grade then, 6th was at LNIS. 5th grade was still in the elementary schools, with the exception of my sisters 5th grade class at Logan that had to be bussed from Logan to Kansas Avenue due to overcrowding then.
December 9, 2010 at 2:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yev_kassem (anonymous) says...
meth--
At some point you are going to have to trust that people do their jobs. It would seem that the people who were on the committee to evaluate the situation had to make a very tough decision. I firmly believe that they made the best decision in their mind with what to do. There were advantages and disadvantages to all of the options so there was no clear cut easy decision to be made. Someone was going to be disappointed no matter what was decided.
Somehow I have a feeling you would have been on what ever side lost no matter what the decision.
December 9, 2010 at 2:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
I am and will always be against spending or more rightly , " The Over Spending " of taxpayer money on things that are " Simply, Wanted " ! Especially, in times of a depressed econonmy, loss of jobs, and higher taxes, just to support the " Spending/Over Spending " habits of a certain number of People !
You and others may still have a good paying job or are well off enough to not let the Spending and Taxing concern you ! However, I and others like me are not so fortunate and have to worry, each and every day about the habit that some in leadership positions have of " Spending/Overspending and Increasing Taxes " just to satisfy their inflated " Egoes " and those whom they may be friends with or influenced by and not give one hoot about those of us their disregard for what their " Spending/Overspending and Increasing of Taxes, to support their " Whims of want ", may do to the rest of us, who also just happen to be taxpaying citizens of Emporias' society !
I asked a question before, that had to do with the idea that the BOE and LCUSD and others statements that they will not have to raise the tax mil levy and here is that question again !
What about the other aging schools that the BOE and LCUSD owns ?
Can they also guarantee that the tax mill levy will not be raised, next year or in the next 5 to 10 years, because these other aging schools will not need to be " Mothballed " and new schools or more multi-million dollar additions are going to want to be built ?
Can the BOE, LCUSD or anyone guarantee the economy of Emporia will improve substantially by next year or 5 or 10 years or if a substantive number of good paying jobs will magically materialize in the nnext 5 to 10 years and can the BOE, LCUSD or anyone guarantee that more businesses and jobs will not be lost from Emporia in the next 5 to 10 years ?
Do you have any idea just how much debt the leaders of this Community and County and State have managed to accumulate for each and every taxpayer of this Community, County, State and Country ???
And do you know how many future gnerations of taxpayers will still be trying to pay this mountainous debt off ????
At some point I would like to be able to trust the people in leadership position in Emporia and the area ! However in the past few decades none of these people have shown me that they have the common sense or where-with-all to be trusted or have the ability to listen to the concerns and fears of others, much less consider the concerns and fears of others or even be able to satisfactorily quell the concerns and fears of others !
December 9, 2010 at 3:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yev_kassem (anonymous) says...
You really are a glass half empty kind of guy aren't you meth?
Can the district make guarantees? Absolutely not and it is wrong of you to ask that.
However, they have at least stated that this will not cost taxpayers additional money which is a good thing.
Every year the state gives dollars to the school district that is designated for repairs and as long as the upkeep is met on some of the older schools, hopefully we won't need mill levy increases or tax hikes.
But no, the district can not guarantee that in the next ten years that they won't need assistance. Who knows what the State is going to do or what the economy is going to do or what the district will even look like. The idea is that this will stop the bleeding in 2 of the buildings that cost a lot to operate and that they get a bonus by eliminating some transitions for students.
Take it for what it is. Not everyone is out to get you.
December 9, 2010 at 4:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BigRed (anonymous) says...
I'm going to put on my prediction hat and say that the next issue will be overcrowding in the elementary schools. Thus, a new grade school will be needed. Once you add that cost to the $3.1MM addition you'll see which option was cheaper.
December 9, 2010 at 4:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
pencilguy (anonymous) says...
I think I'll go with the BOE on this one. As I understand it, they aren't paid, so money really isn't an issue in their decisions; they pay taxes, just the same as all of you. So we come to the question. Why do they seem to be voting for something that most other people oppose?
Well, the Gazette does do a good job in presenting the facts, but they simply cannot provide us all the facts. They may even seem a little a biased at times. But we simply don't know everything that pertains to this issue. For example, what exactly are the buildings' conditions currently? How does this affect students' performance? Do the buildings provide a safe environment for the children?
The BOE gets firsthand testimonials, they visit the schools themselves, and can even get expert opinions.
So we get down to what most of the controversy has been about: How does this affect ME? I'd just like to say, this really isn't about you. It's about these students; simply put, to continue providing a quality education, this move is necessary.
Even if you disagree with the BOE's decision, in the end it's their call. That is why they are on the BOE. Heck, if they want to buy christmas trees for all the students, so be it. Of course, they'd probably be sacked faster than they could say "lowther", but they know that. And that is why they try to make reasonable decisions. From reading the comments, one would get the impression that the BOE's next move will be to poison all the lunches.
December 9, 2010 at 6:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Well, yev_kassem, I really don' t think your assesment of me is quite correct ! I feel that I am a realistic and sensible sort of guy ! In so much as I do take into consideration that there are at least 5 or more older and aging schools, grades kindergarten thru 4th grade that are most likely not in the best of shape ! Now the BOE and LCUSD has, in their infinate wisdom decided to move or " transition " so to speak, students from both Lowther schools back into these older and aging schools, causing what may be an over crowding problem and then after the new $3.5 million dollar addition onto EMS, move these younger students into an environment with older kids that may also cause problems and then there is undoubtedly be an even worse traffic problem around EMS and EHS, possibly even worse than the one that already exists.
I believe, that not to far into the future, the BOE, LCUSD will be suggesting/wanting or convincing some, that there is a dire need to build new grade schools and mothball/abandon existing grade schools !
I have seen this sort of thing before, once when the BOE, LCUSD convinced everyone into believing that a new multimillion dollar High School was need and a new EMS was needed and so happens that problems existed with both new buildings, one while it was being built and the other not too long after it was built !
Did the BOE, LCUSD even give any thought to possible traffic problems that may possibly arise with/from their plan/idea ?
And what happens when the BOE, LCUSD realizes that the only way to solve the traffic problem the new addition to EMS has caused ?
Did they even give any thought to possible traffic problems with the plan/idea ?
1. Say oh well, its for the kids ?
2. Implement an " Absolutely No
Parent Drop Off or Pick Up " of
kids and " Bus " all students to
EMS ?
3. Complain to the City of Emporia
or demand/insist that the City
of Emporia needs to revamp or
redo the streets leading to and
from EMS and just who do you
think would foot paying that
bill ?
So you see yev_kassem, I don' t think all of the possibilites were even considered or thought of by the BOE, LCUSD or those that think that this is/was a good plan/idea or even gave any thought to possible problems or complications with their plan/idea.
I am not against a good education for our children . But I do not think a new $3.5 million dollar anything can guarantee a good education or can make a child/student want to learn, if learning is not something that is of importance or interests them.
I am not against spending money when need be or the time is condusive to spending and taxing, however now is not the time to do so !
And there are plenty of people that agree with me on this !
December 9, 2010 at 10:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
One question ! When does the spending " STOP " , especially in these " TOUGH/DEPRESSED " times ?
As I have said before, one cannot " Spend " their way to " Prosperity ", one can only " Spend " their way to deeper and deeper " Debt " !
December 9, 2010 at 10:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Are we going to let the tired old phrase/excuse " Its for the kids " be the " Watch Phrase " that finally " Breaks The Camels'/Taxpayers' Back " and creates a debt hole so deep that future generations will never be able to get out of the " Debt " hole that they did not " Dig " ?
December 9, 2010 at 10:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
It is easy enounh to be pleasant while life flows along like a dream, but the man worth while while is the man with a smile when everything goes did wrong.
December 10, 2010 at 12:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dnd1994 (anonymous) says...
Many people have said that the tax payers are not going to have to pay for this one. Just wait it will be coming. The architect has not added plans to include another gym. He says the gym now is large enough to occupy three PE classes. I don't think he knows that the two PE classes that are in their now have 30-35 students each in them. How would you like your child having PE with 90 other students?
December 10, 2010 at 6:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
dnd1994,
I don't understand what you mean.
Can't the "PE" classes be staggered?
If they already are and it means that many would be using the gym and playground at the same time I can see a definite potential for some "monkey bar" rage !
As adults those gyms don't seem all that large, but there would seem to be plenty of room for 6th graders. If not I would support spending another couple of million for a bigger gym. After all, "It's For The Kids !"
;>)
December 10, 2010 at 6:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dnd1994 (anonymous) says...
Steve,
The only time the gyms are not being used is during the lunch period. Given if the weather is nice outside the classes could be outside. Although when it is 25 degrees outside or raining, a the classes would need to go somewhere. The one and only gym is the place to go.
December 10, 2010 at 6:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
From the boards web site:
Just the Facts...
Emporia Public Schools - USD253
* 4,622 students
* 1,1,00 employees (includes full-time, part-time and temporary employees and substitutes)
* $67 million budget
* 50.8-mill tax rate
* $32 million in bonded indebtedness
* An early childhoold center for 3 and 4 year olds
* Six neighborhood K-4 elementary schools
* Two intermediate schools for grades 5 and 6
* A middle school for grade 7 and 8
* A high school for grades 9 through 12
* Alternative high school for teenagers and adults
* Turning Point Learning Center, a charter school for grades K-8
* Sponsoring district for Flint Hills Special Education Cooperative, which provides special services in seven school districts for children birth to age 21
SO:
That budget averages out to $14,495.89 in costs per student. Out of that amount what actually goes into educating the student? Now I am all for educating the kids, but that 14K is more than some adults make in this town.
December 10, 2010 at 6:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Don't hit me up about the miss-spelled word "childhoold". That's how it was spelled on the site.;>)
December 10, 2010 at 6:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
dnd1944
Thanks for the explanation on the gym, that will probably be the next expenditure in the continuing saga of the school district.
December 10, 2010 at 6:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
PencilGuy
When I speak of the bias towards new buildings being a money thing, the pay the school board may or may not receive has nothing to do with it. The three million dollars the cost of the building will infuse into the community however does. And a fairly steady supply of such projects is especially important to the economic well-being of the architects, engineers, building contractors and their subs, and suppliers in the community. Therefore their support and advice always leans towards building something new. And since they are generally closely connected to school board members, who are generally also business people, and often friends and associates with the building trades folks.......that advice carries a lot more weight.
And by the way, since I am a sixty nine year old man with recently diagnosed lung cancer.....nothing about this decision affects me personally at all.....:-)
December 10, 2010 at 9:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yev_kassem (anonymous) says...
Sorry to hear that biscuit. Hope you get to feeling better.
December 10, 2010 at 9:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BigRed (anonymous) says...
For the same cost (or less) one of the Lowther schools could have been renovated and there would be more than 15,000 square feet available for the students. There would be a gym and no added traffic problems by the junior high.
I imagine this decision has more to do with keeping the NW kids in NW schools and never subjecting them to central Emporia.
December 10, 2010 at 9:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Thank You yev_kassem!
December 10, 2010 at 1:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
cdl84 (anonymous) says...
One of the main reasons the committee and the board decided to go with this scenario was to reduce transitions for the students! It's not just because the buildings were old and inefficient, that just helped make the decision a little easier. Although I am sure the decision was not easy at all, knowing the fall out from the community members who were not present and are not informed. Fewer transitions for students was the #1 concern of teachers, parents, and community members. It does not make sense to move kids 3 times in 3 years! There is alot of learning that is lost, acclimation to the new schools and teachers takes time, teachers getting to know the students and their learning styles, etc., not to mention discipline concerns. Eliminating 2 transitions is extremely important for the students, parents, and teachers! The 5th graders will have one more year in their neighborhood school where the students and staff know them, and then the 6th graders will have 3 years in the same building with staff who will get to know them as well! I think it's an excellent option, especially since the district can pay for it. As for the Lowthers, who knows what will happen? They are just buildings, people! Aren't our children more important than a building???
I believe that most of the staff from the Lowthers will be moved where the need is. Of course the teachers will be assigned to 5th grades across the district, as will the 6th grade teachers. As the student enrollments go up, there will be a need for more paras and aides, as well as specials teachers. I'm know there will be some people that they can not place, like secretaries and principals, but who knows what will happen? Maybe something will open up. Hopefully they will all find a place that is right for them. I am optimistic that the district will do their best to help everyone!
And as far as the remaining school buildings....we don't know what the future holds. As buildings age and the population changes, yes, we may have to add on or renovate other elementary buildings...we may even have to "gasp" build a new one! Who knows? That's called life people! You never know what is going to happen. You just have to learn how to best deal with the situations!
December 10, 2010 at 4:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Let me see, uuuuumh, sometime earlier there was talk of school overcrowding and students and teachers having to use hallways, closets, etc., because of overcrowding !
Now the plan is to send 6th grade students back to the grade schools .... uuuuuuumh, will that not cause even more overcrowding ?
And as I understand it the new addition to the EMS building will still only mean 7th and 8th grade will still be the only grades at EMS, is that correct ? If so would someone please explain to me the advantage of sending 6th graders back to the Kindergarten through, what will now be 6th grade, instead of K through 5th grade ! And if anyone thinks that moving the 6th grade students back to the grade schools with the younger kids, especially when the six graders have had a grade and two school buildings all to themselves, will not cause problems I suggest you remember all of the problems that arose with just the 6th grade kids being in two buildings all their own !
Such as fights, intimidation, threats, etc. !!!
How many times has the police been called to Lowther North or South because of a problem ?
I feel sorry for the kindergarten through 5th grade kids who are going to be thrown into a potentially problematic situation !
Yeah, real good plan, " FOR EVEN BIGGER PROBLEMS " !
Student Transitioning is going to be the least of the BOE, LCUSD 253, school and teacher problems when this all takes place !
And for those of you who believe that spending money on a new school or new addition to an aging school or mothballing/abandonig an aging school will solve the problem of better education ! All I can say is, " Bah Humbug " !
And if those of you who believe that new schools will draw/bring Businesses or Jobs to an area, again I say " Bah Humbug " ! I believe that a City, State or Counties drive for " Fiscal Responsibility ", i.e. low tax burden on those seeking jobs, low sales taxes and good budgeting skills, responsibile spending and taxation habits is the formula that Businesses, Corporations and Industries look the hardest at . Because the amount of tax burden a regions people must bear has a direct correlation to the amount of money the Businesses, Corps., Industries will have to pay their current and potential employees and the amount of taxes Businesses, Industries and Corps. will be paying as well and whether that Businesses, Industry or Corporation will be able to or even want to stay in the region for a long period of time or move elsewhere !
For every action, there is a reaction
so keep in mind, your actions do have consequences.
Some guy named Newton had a theory about this.
December 10, 2010 at 5:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Sorry, I mis-read the article !
So the plan is to send 5th graders back to the grade schools and the 6th grader to EMS !
That is the only part of my comment I would like to change. The rest of lmy comment still holds true, older kids being put with younger kids and younger kids being put with older kids, can still cause problems !
December 10, 2010 at 6:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
I have a question-what happens if "Lowes" builds where they were wanting to do so? Now, more traffic??? Then the road will need to be changed to handle the traffic etc. Cost,cost, cost.
December 10, 2010 at 7:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
pencilguy (anonymous) says...
well im sorry to hear that biscuitboy. i hope your cancer goes into remission.
i think i can give personal testimony, however, to the new changes to the building configurations, as I am currently an 8th grader at EMS. I don't think overcrowding is an issue at the middle school, and we manage fine with our gym the way it is. Lately that its been cold, if we get tired of the gym, we put on pedometers and walk the hallways. The only current problem at EMS is lack of teachers. I don't know if you guys know how students are arranged at EMS, so I'll explain it you. There used to be 6 teams of teachers, and every student belonged to one of those teams. You would have all your core classes with your team teachers in morning or afternoon, depending on your grade. You would then have your elective classes. This was a very good system, but due to budget cuts, there are now only 5 teams. 2 are 8th grade, 2 are 7th grade, and 1 is a combo team of 7 and 8th graders.
So the new scheduling and lack of teachers makes things pretty interesting. Some classes are very crowded, while others have very few students. I have seen some empty classrooms, and there are hallways of unused lockers. With this new scheduling, a student might not have lunch with their team, or maybe would have to have a core class with another team's teacher. EMS might seem overcrowded, but in reality, the building isn't used to it's fullest extent.
December 10, 2010 at 9:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
pencilguy,
I am impressed. Your post seems to prove there is a good education to be had in the Emporia School system. Your writings seem well beyond your age. Maybe you should run for the school board? I'm not sure, but there isn't an age requirement is there?
December 10, 2010 at 9:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Boom (anonymous) says...
@pencilguy: I as a seventh grader do agree, with what you said. The only thing i wonder is were would they add on to the school? Another thing this might affect is the buses you can only fit so many buses into the loading area. You would have to add three or four buses, but i question if that many more would even fit. Another thing is how much are electives will change, cause we would have three grades taking them.
December 10, 2010 at 10:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
hogan77 (anonymous) says...
I think that this whole situation should have been brought up earlier during election time, and allow the ENTIRE population of Emporia to make a decision, rather than allowing a board of "better than you and I" to make the decision for us. That is exactly what they have done.
Yes, I realize I do not live in the community any longer. However, Emporia is my hometown. When I mention to people around where I live my birthplace, let me assure you, the reaction is less than pleasant. Outsiders have nothing good to say about Emporia. And once they find out about this decision, I have no doubts that they will look down their nose even more than before. At least in my community, we give a damn about what type of education our children are getting. We do not push to have new buildings built, nor do we move our children around as much as Emporia does. We did make a "recent" change a few years back, where we had combined the high schools of our town and the neighboring one. It was a decision that was better overall for the children.
Tell you what, Emporians. If you ever get sick and tired of the crap that your school board, city council members, etc. are doing, there are many other places to choose from. I know for a fact our community out here in SW Kansas sure could use some new blood- perhaps some young entrepreneurs? We have buildings here that are empty, and sure could use some people to fill them. And at least here, things are small enough and close knit enough that any decisions that are being made for the greater good of community or education is done so with a wide variety of people on the boards- NOT just the "upper class".
December 10, 2010 at 10:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
cd184
I don't doubt that transitions became the talking point here in selling us on the need for the new addition. It may in fact be true that transitions are stumbling blocks for the children. I certainly can't argue the point either way with any credibility..
But credibility is an interesting word in this context. You may remember that we were sold on the need for the new high school and the new middle school partly by the covert (if not overt) suggestion that
the program they wanted to put in place to justify the need for those two major projects (Lowther North and Lowther South) were also good for the children.
So the question becomes.....were they lying to me then?......Or are they lying to me now? And that my friend is credibility. It increasingly appears to me that it makes no difference which program is "best for our children"......except to the extent that it helps sell what ever we are wanting to build next. As such, "best for our children" becomes nothing more than a talking point which makes it little more valuable to me than propaganda.....which talking points basically always are.
The bottom line is we will always come down on the side of building something new because that is important to the welfare of a lot of people with a lot of influence.
December 10, 2010 at 10:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
PencilGuy
First.....Thank You for your thoughtfulness.......Second.....I am impressed.
You have shown me anyway, that our education system is doing a pretty good job as it is now in educating at least some of our children. You my young friend have a future. Please try and use it wisely. That's just a little old man type advice......:-)
Based on your description of the current situation at EMS, it would appear to me the problems there now are more of allocation of resources than of overcrowding. So now we are planning on increasing over crowding at the grade school level (eventually necessitating more new additions I am sure).....and spending three million dollars to build a new addition to EMS to stave off an overcrowding problem we currently don't have. I fail to see what is being accomplished here other than the one thing we are always able to accomplish.....justify the need for another new building project. And cd184 is already greasing us up for the eventual need to add-on to the grade schools here in this period of declining enrollment.
hogan77
The reason this wasn't brought to a vote of the people is the recognition by the school board that it is a lot easier to manipulate a study committee than the will of the voters....JMO....
December 10, 2010 at 11:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
biscuit, I am so very sorry to read what you have written here concerning yourself. If at anytime I can be of assistance to you, please let me know. You know who I am and I'm listed in the phonebook. PLEASE let me know, even though I may not always agree with you, I do respect what you have to say. I know that you are alone so therefore anytime you need to go to the doctor etc. and need help, all you have to do is ask.
December 10, 2010 at 11:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
sandman
Thank you very much. This is all a process that is quite new to me....and at present anyway is still one with an unknown outcome. Whatever will be will be, and I am trying to steel myself for whatever happens.
I've already learn some things. Possibly the most important being how looking at your own mortality changes your perspective. You start gaining an appreciation for the things that are really important, and losing interest in those things that one time meant so much to you. My unconventional life has provided me with the opportunity for some moderate successes and some absolutely brilliant failures. If I can teach one young person how to avoid my failures....that will be all the legacy I will ever hope. That is all that is important to me now.
Yes sandman, you and I have had some impressive disagreements. But through all the hype and vitriolic comments we have come to respect each other. I find hope in that. Perhaps people with greatly differing views can learn to live together if they will just try.
I'm sorry, but I don't know who you are. If I should and some how missed it I apologize. I do have a brother that live here in town and we are as close now as we have been in forty years. Thanks anyway for the offer of help. The offer itself meant much. Now I better stop hijacking this thread before people start suggesting removal of my comments.
Merry Christmas to you and yours.
December 11, 2010 at 4:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
biscuit,
I also, would like to say that I am very sorry to hear of your circumstance, wish you all the luck and good fortune in the world !
And would like to say that I too, hope that the legacy I may leave future and up and coming young people and leaders of Emporia is, always have the ability and foresight to consider what consequences, your actions and decisions may have on, not just you, but on all of your neighbors and fellow citizens and future citizens !
Pencilguy, Boom
Biscuits' words about our " Mortality " are words of wisdom, as we are all inheritantly " Mortal ' and will eventually succumb to our own " Mortality " and will learn this, as life goes on and age overcomes us all !
From what I have read of your comments, you are two young people who are much wiser and level headed than your years !
PencilGuy, as I understand your comment, in your opinion, EMS is not used to its fullest capability now !
The problem with EMS, as you see it is lack of " Teachers " !
And Thank You Both for your well thought out and intelligent comments .
December 11, 2010 at 8:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
There you have it folks, the comments and opinions of two young people who apparently have gone thru the Emporia school system to the point of being 7th and 8 th graders at EMS and have first hand experience and knowledge of the problems of being students in the Emporia, USD 253 school system and put with, experienced and seen the problems first hand, every day !
Perhaps the BOE, LCUSD 253 and the Study Committee should have polled/consulted/asked the actual students and teachers at these schools what they thought the problems were/are and how they thought the problems could be fixed !!!
To the BOE, LCUSD 253 and Study Commettee :
So, it is likely possible that a $3.5 million dollar addition to EMS, the moving of 5th graders to the Grade Schools ... the moving of 6th graders to EMS, possibly will not improve the " Teaching/Education " of the " Kids " in either situation ?!?
The problem from at least two students perspective is, lack of " Teachers " and likely will continue to be a lack of " Teachers " !!!!
December 11, 2010 at 8:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
And if I am not mistaken, this new grade configuration of Kindergarten thru 5th grade being in the grade schools and 6th, 7th 8th grades in EMS and then High School is almost exactly the same grade configurations that were prevailant when I attended school ???
Only difference is when I went to school, grade school consisted of Kindergarten thru 6 th grade, Junior High school ( now called Middle School ) consisted of 7th & 8th & 9th grades and then High School consisted of Sophomore, Junior then Senior years ! 3 school transitions to get through schooling ! So the new 3 school transitions, grade school, Middle School, then High School ! This configuration/transition is supposed to be a move toward the future of education in Emporias' school system !! But it is actually a backward step to the old 3 school transition system to complete primary education in Emporia, that I went through 50+ years ago and will cost $3.5 million dollars or more to move forward, by actually moving backward, at a cost of $3.5 million dollars !!! UUUUUMH, gets kinda confusing and mind boggling doesn' t it, all this so called moving forward by moving backward, to get moving forward to the future only to step backward to move forward at a terrific cost to move backward or is it forward, oh hell, I forget which way it is we are moving !!!
Boy, I am glad my and others futures are in such capable hands !!!!! LOL
December 11, 2010 at 9:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
The only future I can see happening by all of this spending, need/want to spend, is the higher taxes for taxpayers of the future ! That is the only certain future I see in my crystal ball !!!
December 11, 2010 at 9:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rcakmon (anonymous) says...
Stop with the "It's for the kids" and transitions argument. The transitions were not a problem for most kids. It was a few kids and the parents that grew up with K-6 that thought the world was ending because of the LSIS/LNIS set up. The benefit of reducing transitions (if there even is one) will be completely offset by the over-crowding at the elementary buildings and EMS. Back to specialized instructions in hallways, closets, and storage areas! Not good! The gym problem at EMS and serving lunch for 2.5 hours a day is ridiculous! And what are they doing about parking at EMS and the traffic issues? This will all cost more money.
December 11, 2010 at 12:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
bb, sorry to read about your lung cancer. but, i think you are about as tough as i am. if i can do this, you can, also! lets just show'em!
as i remember ems and ehs were built so they could be added onto or connected easily. am i wrong about that?
December 11, 2010 at 5 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
isn't both ems and ehs about 15 years old? and didn't they just add onto ehs?
December 11, 2010 at 5:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
Biscuit, as I've stated my thoughts are with you and again, if you ever need help, will be glad to assist. I am listed under my deceased husbands name, L. Scott Hummel. We went thru this with him but he did not pass because of the cancer but other causes.Yes, we so begin to realize our own mortality, he was 60 at the time of his passing. He had wonderful care not only local but out of town. After he past, my oldest sister found she also had lung cancer (never smoked a day) which they got and she is doing fine.(7 years) I was at her side. PLEASE keep a positive attitude for we live in a wonder time of science. Just keep in mind that none of us are truly alone and as I've said, if you need help,
all you have to do is ask. I have been out of town assisting with my second oldest sister but believe that is taken care of. I am so glad that you have your brother but in a pinch, I'm here.
December 11, 2010 at 7:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
cab1198 (anonymous) says...
Okay folks...Pinkpintopony stated above on 12/8 that there was to be a follow up meeting on this in January for the public. I hope the date and time are well publicized, maybe you would be willing to get that info out on the Gazette facebook page or somewhere? I certainly hope the public makes a strong showing, to learn why this decision was made and to voice opinions. Let your voices be heard...and if a former Emporian and product of the Emporia school system would be welcome, I might just show up!
December 11, 2010 at 9:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
I posted this on the other thread about this issue and here it is.
Well all I can say is , I have had a conservation, this afternoon, with a neighbor of mine, that just happens to be a teacher at Lowther ! She told me that, if what they have been told or heard is, Turning Point Learning Center will be moved into one of the Lowther buildings !
Go figure !!!!
Sounds like the same old " Bate and Switch " that was handed to the public when the BOE, LCUSD told the public that a new high school was needed to get the kids away from the downtown traffic and again when the BOE said they needed a new Middle School for the same reason and ended up putting younger kids in a downtown traffic situation and now the same old story only this time it is deteriorating buildings and student transitions !
As usual it sounds as if they plan possibly younger kids from the Turning Point Learning Center, now located in the old Kansas Ave. school building at 315 So. Market into one of the purportedly deteriorating Lowther Buildings !
Has the public and the taxpayers been victims of a Propaganda campaign, Scammed, Shammed, Deceived or just plain Lied To ?
Who knows ? I guess we have no choice, but to wait and see how this plays out !!!
It will do absolutely no good for the public to show up enmass and protest at a follow up meeting in January , as minds have been made up, decisions have been made and there will be no turning back now ! So everyone might as well get used to the idea that " We The People, who pay the bills as taxpaying citizens, have absolutey no influence with the BOE, LCUSD 253, City Commission, County Commission, nor do we have any say in what , where or on what money collected from " US/WE " the taxpayers thru taxation !
I have been to these meetings and seen the looks the people who are supposed to be our trusted leaders give when you oppose them or make suggestions about how you think things should be done ! In short these people have made up their minds and decided long before these public meetings , as to what they want, what will be done and nothing and I mean nothing will be done to change that or their decision or mind set !
December 11, 2010 at 10:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
cab1198
I cannot speak for the BOE, LCUSD, but as a non-resident of Emporia you probably will not be welcome either by the BOE or LCUSD ! But, you do what you believe is right and feel you should do ! After all, I believe it is still a free Country !
I know I will not attend, as I am sure it will be a total waste of time !
After all, I do believe the members of the BOE, LCUSD 253, etc, do look at and read these forums and know how a lot of people and taxpayers and even some school students, themselves fell about this issue ! Even some teachers have commented on these forum thread about studen and school issues !
December 11, 2010 at 10:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Thanks scarlett. methusla and all for your kind words. This is an on-going process and will work it's way thorough (one way or another) in time.
Unfortunately I think methusla is so correct in his disdain for the way these public institutions always hold these public comment sessions and then set there looking bored and disgusted until the proceeding is over. But reality is most of those sessions are required by law. So they are required to hold them....they are not required to pay any attention.
That's also why most of those "leaders" are so unhappy with forums like this one. They still don't have to listen...and don't. But here they can not control how much opposition gets out the voters. That makes it harder for them to paint their rosy little pictures about every thing they decide. And they damned sure don't like the public being reminded about traffic being a safety hazard for high school and middle school students but alright for fifth and sixth graders....or transitions being wonderful adjustment tools for fifth and sixth grades when it was beneficial to them....only to turn around and cuss them now for being harmful to the children.
Which time was the lie?
December 12, 2010 at 4:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
i seem to remember, not to long ago, this comment. lies damned lies and stats. that seems to apply here also. jmo
December 12, 2010 at 2:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
wirewatt (Ken Bazil) says...
It is about time we get rid of the two Lowther buildings, they cost a ton to heat and cool, and maintain. We had a bond passed to build the new grade schools, it is time we used them. Our students have decreased and our schools have increased. Its time to make some badly needed changes to save money. The buses already run to each school, therefore it should also save money on transportation. I can see many savings even if we have to add on to one building. The staff and cost to operate will be less as we have people in place and retirements that will help retain the people we need.
December 12, 2010 at 5:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
hogan77 (anonymous) says...
Wirewatt, this is just an example of Emporia jumping the gun. Of course there is a surplus of schools. Why? Because they had to build, build, build. If they would have stuck with the original schools in the first place, the extra schools wouldn't even be an issue. Other options should have been followed, instead of building a new middle school and new elementary schools.
Those old buildings wouldn't be so bad if they would have been made energy efficient, rather than a new school being built. Just because it is old, doesn't mean it is broken. Just another example of Emporia's wasteful spending.
December 13, 2010 at 3:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
cannonco (anonymous) says...
So what will become of the Middle School Buildings?
December 13, 2010 at 4:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
cannonco,
At the same meeting wed. night the board extended the "Turning Point Learning Center, (AKA Flint Hills Learning Center), from grades K-8 to K-12.
So that takes care of one of the buildings. It's already been decided. Give the board a year, they will find a use for the other one.
JMO, but i will bet you a doughnut to a dog turd i am right.
December 13, 2010 at 6:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
I'll sweeten that pot with two more dog turds Steve because I think you are right.
December 13, 2010 at 6:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
No bet here Steve ! As I too believe you are " RIGHT " .
You see those who are serving on the BOE, LCUSD 253, CC, LCC, in fact all sectors of government and those who are pulling their puppet strings, believe that the rest of us " Dumb Ole Taxpayers " , either don' t know anything or are to stupid/dumb to see and figure out what is actually going on or what they are doing !
I for one have been around Emporia and this area far too long to have the " Wool " pulled over my eyes so easily and have seen and experienced the " SOP " and fast, secretive " Closet " decisions that have been made by these " Trusted Leaders " and the " Double Talk " of these so called " Intelligent, Trusted " Board, Committee, Commision " Stuffed Shirts " too many times and for too long !
And this latest " Ruse " is only the latest in a long line of " Ruses, Scams, Shams, Lies and " Deceit " in order to get what they and a few others get what they want !!!
December 13, 2010 at 7:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rcakmon (anonymous) says...
So far there are three schools that were deemed too old and too costly to fix and use; Mary Herbert, Kansas Avenue, and Maynard. All three are still being used by the district and money has been spent to fix them up. Most recently Mary Herbert went through a big renovation and upgrade when the BOE staff moved there. So now they have a plan that will over-crowd the elementary buildings and EMS to avoid the cost of the upgrades needed at LSIS and LNIS. My money says at least one of those buildings will be used and guess what? They will spend money on upgrades! The whole thing is just ridiculous! It would be great to pin down the BOE members at a future meeting and ask them to guarantee they will sell or lease the two Lowther buildings. It would be fun to watch them stammer their way through that conversation!!!
December 13, 2010 at 8:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
apierich (anonymous) says...
I grew up back East, as in Virginia, and the thought and mere suggestion that more than 20 kids in a classroom with one teacher is overcrowding is a joke to me. Growing up, a class was not considered full till 20, and the classrooms here are bigger, and was starting to be thought of as in danger of overcrowding when it hit 32. I will say though that the area elementary schools do not have enough classrooms to add another grade, except that they have been pushed in recent years to not fill positions when teachers retire or resign. I heard that straight from administrators when I worked as a para a few years ago.
As a para, I will just say I was a therapy para and not a classroom para, I went to several schools every week, the Lowther's were the worst, and was thoroughly unimpressed. I went through elementary and most of middle school in 12A+ schools (yes, ranking goes far above the highest 6A in this state) with terrible overcrowding, little money, and kids who slipped through the cracks. At that time in Va. all you needed to be a teacher was a bachelors degree and the money to pay for your liscence. No other certification. Yet when my family moved to Kansas I was lightyears ahead of what I have seen anywhere in Kansas since. Blame it on NCLB, rural schools just teaching enough to crank out farmers, lack of money or technology, or my parents always taking an active roll in my and my siblings education while so many other parents blame the schools saying it is the school that is supposed to teach a child because either "We work so hard to keep up our standard of living we don't have time!" or "We aren't qualified to teach our own kids." News flash: I has been my experience that teachers only have to be one grade level smarter than the kids they teach or in some cases one lesson. Now, I have met and seen in action some amazing teachers in this school district, but it is often the ones who are so far behind themselves that stay educators because they know that is the best money they can make. We not only need more educators, but better educators, there is nothing that undermines a teacher more to everyone in their class than a student correcting them and them either dismissing it, punishing it, or fighting it with a book that is 50 years old and incredibly out of date.
December 13, 2010 at 1:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
So, apierich, let me pin you down here . In your opinion, do the schools in Emporia, Ks. or more specifically, Kansas, as a whole need more new schools, additions to schools, or just more and better educators ?
And in these depressed/hard times with unemployment hovering around 10%, do you believe that spending money taxpayers do not have nor can afford on new schools, will solve the education problem this Comminity, State and Nation is having ?
And do you believe that new schools, additions to new schools alone, will absolutely raise the education ranking of the U.S. from around 28th, compared to 41other industrialized nations of the world ?
See the following,
To see countries that finished ahead of us, select a link below.
Area Rank (out of 41)
Math 28
Reading 18
Science 22
Problem Solving 29
Source, http://putourkidsfirst.com/kidsfirst/...
And and the following info is also very interesting, http://www.photius.com/rankings/natio...
December 13, 2010 at 3:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ksnewsie (anonymous) says...
Methusla: seems to me our children need better educators and better buildings.
I would much rather spend less money building a new, more energy efficient building than spend more money trying to rehab an old building.
December 13, 2010 at 6:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
ksnewsie
But, if the BOE, LCUSD 253, etc., has said that the old buildings are deteriorating and a new addition or new school needs to be built .... then why are they considering using one of the old buildings for a school, education learning center ??? Just seem like there was some " Fast Shuffeling " or out and out deceit and lies going on here . Also do they plan on not repairing the building they are planning on using or are they going to ask for additional funds to make the necessary repairs ? So why not go ahead and repair the buildings in the first place, instead of hatching such a blatant " Ruse " to get a new addition to EMS and sending 5th graders back to the grade schools ???
And I still have had no one answer my question ... Will spending money to build new schools or build additions to new schools, make for better educated children ??
I for one believe that it will not !!!!
December 13, 2010 at 8:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
wirewatt (Ken Bazil) says...
Where was all this talk and growling when the schools were being voted on? The people whom are so negative on these sites we never hear from when items are being voted on. I would say the new schools were wanted as it was passed by the voters. You can say people didn't turn out and vote, however not voting is the same as agreeing with what our elected people are pushing.
December 14, 2010 at 12:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
wirewatt,
vote for new schools? That was what, 10-15 years ago or more?
The money being used in this case is not bond money from the school bond issue. It will supposedly be a combination of Stimulus energy conservation funds, capital outlay funds and money from the general budget.
GENERAL BUDGET, that money is supposed to go to teaching the children, not a new building or addition.
if you are referring to the committee or board vote, that was decided a long time ago, before the committee was even put together.
Is everyone who disagrees with your point of view being negative? Or do they just have a difference of opinion?
if you would read some posts on here about the shape of the Lowther buildings and how horrible they were, and how they are practically falling down, parents should be refusing to send their kids there.
Just remember what some on here have predicted will happen in the next few years. Some of us "negative" posters will be able to say ; " See, we told ya so!"
December 14, 2010 at 1:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
wirewatt
I like to think of myself as a " Sensible " person, one who likes to look at all the scenarios, options and info ! One who also will listen to a cross section of the community, in this case taxpaying citizens, teachers, actual students who attend these schools and draw from my own knowledge and experiences of how things have,are and inevitably will be done by those few who think themselves as leaders and those few who greatly influence how things are or should be done by the supposed leaders of all of the people of Emporia, but in reality only listen to and do as those few who influence our leaders to do as they dictate be done !
Therfore I do not believe I am a " Negitave " person but a person who deals in " Reality ", not necessarily what is " Propagandized " to me or at me !
As I have asked before, Why did the BOE, LCUSD 253 allow two perfectly good building to deteriorate to an unusable condition, in the first place ?
The obvious answer, given their recent decision .... To make building a new addition onto EMS, seem the only option and to move 5th grade back to the grade schools !
And if the BOE, LCUSD 253 does decide to move " Turning Point Learning Center, " into one of the Lowther buildings, then you will know that you/we have been " Shammed " yet again by our leaders !
December 14, 2010 at 2 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
genxer (anonymous) says...
First and foremost, bb, very sorry to hear about your health problem. I hope you are able to beat it.
As for the subject, I hope this decision is reversed. These numbers sound phony and the way this was rushed through stinks. Those buildings may get used for a while but they will mostly sit there and rot, creating a semi-permanent eyesore until they are eventually torn down. As I said on another forum, all of those repairs don't have to be made at one time and cramming 6th grade students into a school with 7th and 8th graders where it sounds like the teachers can't even control those students is rediculous. Not to mention the ramifications the additional 5th graders will have at the schools around the rest of Emporia. I don't think ALL of the costs associated with this decision were taken into account and I really don't feel good about this entire process. We need to get school board members voted in who will reverse this decision before it is too late.
December 15, 2010 at 5:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
genexer,
Your are right about " ALL of the costs associated with this decision were taken into account " !
For instance the $ 3.38 million dollar price tag for the EMS addition is just an " Estimated cost " , which means the actual cost of the project could be considerably more and does the estimated cost also inclued " Architect design fees " .
And no doubt there will be a certain costs incured with moving the 5th graders back into the grade schools as well !
And if the BOE decides to move the Turning Point Learning Center into one of the old Lowther buildings what about the cost of repair and upkeep of that one building !
And what about the cost of mothballing the two Lowther buildings, that would be a cost that could also be added to the price of a new addition at EMS !
No, all of the costs involved in such a decision/move were not considered or given to the taxpaying public ! The only facts given to the public were the ones that the BOE, LCUSD 253 wanted the taxpaying public to see and hear !
December 15, 2010 at 8:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
genxer (anonymous) says...
What amazes me is that nobody seems to be asking any questions. Also, this cannot be in the best interest of the children. You are taking and entire school dedicated to the education of the 5th grade and another for the 6th grade and shoving these kids into schools which are already full.
The entire reason for this even being considered is that there is some "FREE" money available and they are not going to let it go to waste. Where is the sanity check?
Not to mention intangible costs to the community from mothballing 2 large historic buildings and letting them rot in place. Where is the green crowd at? They should be in the streets yelling reduce, reuse, recycle!
December 15, 2010 at 8:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Paola (anonymous) says...
oh ok then..so let me get this strait(can't spell)..so wat is the 2 building going to be turn into then???....
December 15, 2010 at 8:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Heres, a little something from the interim school superintendant and BOE member,
In 2000, enrollment was still climbing and voters agreed to build two large elementary schools and construct additions at the high school and middle school. No one could predict the economic changes that would start the following year when major manufacturing jobs began to leave the community. A decade later, we have 500 fewer students in our classrooms. This is larger than any of our elementary schools and about the size of Emporia Middle School. For the first time in Emporia’s history, the Board of Education has had to respond to enrollment decline.
The last two paragraphs are of some interest as they have to do with adeclining school enrolement in Emporia .
So the BOE responds to Emporia School enrolement decline, by closing two schools and building a $ 3.34 million dollar addition onto EMS ???
I certainly hope school enrolement doesn' t decline further, because if Emporia school enrollment declines more, it will cost us all more !!!
December 15, 2010 at 9:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
And what amuses me is the fact that, just about everyone with any foresight or sense at all could see this present economic situation comming 10 years or more ago !!!
Excusses are like A_ _ holes, everyone has one !!!
December 15, 2010 at 9:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rcakmon (anonymous) says...
I agree with genxer. The BOE needs to answer some questions. Where will the fifth grade classes go when the buildings are full? There are NO empty rooms at Village yet four sections are supposed to go there. It's not the only building without space for fifth grade classes.
The BOE approved Turning Point for K-12. The rumor is that the BOE plans to move Turning Point to LSIS to give them more space. How can they justify keeping that building open for Turning Point yet not for the fifth grade? There is something really odd going on and the board members are not being honest.
December 15, 2010 at 11:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
And there is that phrase " Free Money " again !
People ..... that so called " Free Money " is not " FREE " it is taxpayer money, paid and given by the Taxpayers ! Therefore I believe the taxpayers should have a decided say in how the money should be used ! Just as I believe the taxpayers should have a decided say in how the City or County spends taxpayer funds/money !
December 15, 2010 at 2:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
rcakmon,
There have been many of us who have asked numerous questions, both at the public meetings and here on a public forum that has many people who read it, including the BOE, LCUSD 253, Superintendent of Schools, City Commissioners, County Commissioners as well as people the world over .
However most of the time you just get a kind of look, like you are stupid and don' t know anything and your question either gets ignored or the Board/Commission members look at one another, like they don' t know what you are talking about and your question/comment gets ignored completely . And I believe the reason is the so called leaders have made up their minds way in advance of any public question and answer session/meeting !!
Again this is just par for the course or SOP !
And if you make a comment or ask a question that is not in absolute agreement or falls into a goose-step total agreement with the wishes of the Board, Committee members or local Power Brokers or those who agree with them, you will be branded and called all sorts of things !
December 15, 2010 at 2:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BigRed (anonymous) says...
"There is something really odd going on and the board members are not being honest."
I still think it has to do with keeping the NW kiddies in NW schools. By moving the 5th graders back to their NW grade school and sticking the 6th graders in EMS there will no longer be any reason to bus these children to central Emporia.
December 15, 2010 at 3:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Big Red
I agree ! Since the NW part of Emporia has started to be developed and grow and become somewhat or mostly " Exclusive " the rest of Emporia is/has become the so called " Poor White Trash " part of Emporia and is most of the time the " Forgotten " part of the community ! Even the downtown is by and large being forgotten !
In the winter when it snows, where are the streets cleared of snow first and where are the streets cleared of snow last ?
It would not surprise me in the least, to see a proposal for a new Civic Building and City Offices to be built somewhere in the N.W. part of Emporia !!! And yet there are those that want to tout Emporia as being a " Friendly Inclusive Community " , but only if you meet certain " Income, Social Standing requirements " and build, buy or live in a certain section/area of the community and absolutely " abide by and adhere " to the " Thinking, Rules and Wishes " of the few who really wield the " Power " in the Community !
December 15, 2010 at 4:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
genxer (anonymous) says...
methusla, I agree on the "free" money which is why I always put it in double quotes. It is not free but a lot of people look at it that way which is the wrong way to look at it. But as long as public officials have no accountability that is the way they will view it.
December 16, 2010 at 5:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
All of this started with the energy saving stimulus money. It was intended to make energy conservation improvements to the Lowther Schools. But such retrofits are labor intensive and not particularly profitable for the building trades crowd. There is much more money stays in their pocket (rather than labor's) with new construction
Hence came the ideas to channel the 1.7 million dollar stimulus grant towards new construction. That grant put the cost
of the addition, and consequent grade changes, within reach without having to hold a bond election to finance the new construction. That in turn played well with those people whom had been trying for some time to keep from having to send their children into "central Emporia"
for classes (heaven forbid).
There is nothing strange or sinister about any of this......It's just business as usual.
December 16, 2010 at 6:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
genxer
Thank you for your thoughts.
I also agree with your post more than you might think but for reasons you probably wont like.
If money taken from the government and redistributed back to the people, there by running up the debt in hope tht it will restart the economy, is a form of stimulus for which government should then be held accountable (and I believe that it is)? Wouldn't tax money distributed back through the people in the form of tax cuts. there by also running up the debt in hopes that it will restart the economy, also a form of stimulus (which it is intended to do whether it actually does or not). And should we not then hold the government officials equally responsible then for the ultimate consequences of those decisions also?
December 16, 2010 at 6:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
biscuit,
You are joking, when you mention holding the government " Accountable " for anything ! You were joking, weren' t you !
LOL
December 16, 2010 at 8:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
I think I was more wishing methusla......:-(
December 16, 2010 at 11:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Yea, I know exactly how you feel biscuit !!! :-(
December 16, 2010 at 1:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
EMS (anonymous) says...
The new wing hasn't really panned out well at the middle school. Things are still way too crowded. The elementary schools are too crowded too. What happens if we have a particularly large group of kids in one grade some year? What will we do then?
It just seems like the whole thing wasn't thought out that well.
Check this out for more information about what's going on out there if you're interested:
http://emporiamiddleschool.dyndns.org
March 23, 2012 at 11:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
EMS (anonymous) says...
There is more new content at emporiamiddleschool.dyndns.org . Take a look to find out what's really going on at Emporia Middle School.
April 16, 2012 at 11:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )