A committee charged with studying grade configurations in Emporia USD 253 will recommend to the board of education to add on to Emporia Middle School and close Lowther North and Lowther South intermediate schools.
The committee overwhelmingly chose this option, labeled the blue option, during a meeting on Monday night. The committee has been meeting since May to discuss the way grades are grouped in buildings and whether it should change.
Option blue involves moving fifth grade back to elementary school buildings and housing sixth grade through eighth grades in Emporia Middle School. This option requires an addition to Emporia Middle School to accommodate sixth-grade students.
The middle school would see a 15,000 square foot addition that would house eight core classrooms, four resource classrooms and three support rooms at a cost of $3.38 million.
The blue option received 50 votes for educational value and 56 votes for financial value from committee members. All other options received single digit votes.
The committee will take its recommendation to the Emporia USD 253 Board of Education on Wednesday night.
Brian Jordan, assistant superintendent of personnel, told the committee members that the board could make a decision on grade configurations at that meeting or they could discuss it and make a decision at a future meeting.
During the meeting on Monday Andy Anderson, an architect with DLR Group, addressed the committee and walked them through each of the five options.
Anderson said under the blue option, Lowther North and Lowther South would be mothballed, which means the district would keep the buildings but not use them for classroom space.
He said there are some costs associated with maintaining the buildings, including some heating and cooling costs, maintaining smoke alarms, sprinklers and maintaining the lawn. Anderson also said during the meeting that the Lowther buildings aren’t likely to sell in a down economy. He said if the school district keeps up with the buildings they could be sold when the economy improves.
Anderson said it's estimated that Lowther South would cost $18,255 to mothball and Lowther North would cost $20,315. The two buildings’ total cost is more than $150,000 in water, natural gas and electricity during a normal school year.
The committee spent time discussing the costs of each option, including the amount of money it would take to get the Lowther buildings up to standard with other educational facilities in the district.
For Lowther North, energy improvements including high efficiency lighting and occupancy sensors, low flow plumbing fixtures, fresh air dampers, supplemental cooling in computer labs, and window replacement would cost $1.8 million.
At Lowther South, energy improvements would cost $1.5 million.
Anderson also said the buildings need other repairs, such as replacing the ceilings, painting walls and replacing floors. The total cost for both buildings to be energy efficient and have updated ceilings and floors is $5.4 million.
Other options the committee considered include:
F Beige: Keep the configurations as is, with one preschool facility, six kindergarten through fourth grade elementary schools, a fifth grade center, a sixth grade center, a seventh and eighth grade middle school and a high school.
F Green: Move fifth graders to elementary buildings, revitalize Lowther North and keeping Lowther South and mothballing it, or not utilizing it.
F Red A: In this option Lowther North and Lowther South would both become fifth and sixth grade centers.
F Red B: This option involves Lowther North and Lowther South alternating between being a fifth and sixth grade center.
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
These committies in Emporia always have a predetermined outcome as if it was a consensus of the people.
December 7, 2010 at 12:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
This school board is made up of volunteers who serve the community. Unlike another poster on here I don't think the board considers themselves holier than thou, or uppity in any way. Normal everyday folks who want to further the education of our kids.
Somehow it seems when they do get elected and serve, they get in the spend, spend, spend frame of mind. Then 6 months later, it's "we need more money, it's for the kids"!
At this time and in the foreseeable future this idea ranks right up there as one of the dumbest of all time. But of course you have an architect discussing building addition options, how much will that company make under the BLUE plan?
Our state legislature is convening in January, and if the board thinks state funding was bad last year, wait till they see what happens in 2011-12.
Everyone on here mark my words and save this post. Next year the board will come to the voters again and say we HAVE TO RAISE THE MILL-LEVY. It's for the children !
I like pretty colors also, but for now BIEGE is looking oh so pretty.
I don't know if karmadog is paid by the school district, but they should be happy that we sit here complaining. If we ran for and got elected to the school board, think of the consequences.:>)
December 7, 2010 at 12:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
It's always the option that requires building the new building or addition,
because that is where the money is made.
Many of the walls in Lowther North were just painted about three years ago and the floors looked fine to me when I helped paint the walls.
December 7, 2010 at 12:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
1.8 million for window replacement.
Didn't the district already recieve that stimulus money?
December 7, 2010 at 12:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
receive
December 7, 2010 at 12:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
karmadog (anonymous) says...
Karmadog is NOT paid by the school district. Karmadog is a taxpayer, parent, and community volunteer. Karmadog wishes that you, Steve and Co., would add your names to the volunteer and/or elected official list.
December 7, 2010 at 12:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
Youtube-Charlotte Iserbyt: The Subterfuge of America-1 of 3.
December 7, 2010 at 12:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
"Anderson also said the buildings need other repairs, such as replacing the ceilings, painting walls and replacing floors. The total cost for both buildings to be energy efficient and have updated ceilings and floors is $5.4 million."
GET A NEW ARCHITECT !
December 7, 2010 at 12:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
ALSO:
"The two buildings’ (Lowther north and south), total cost is more than $150,000 in water, natural gas and electricity during a normal school year."
Let's compare
What are EHS and EMS combined utilities for a normal school year?
December 7, 2010 at 1:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
Aw come on, surely someone will point out the obvious, they are abandoning the South and east side of town for the NW!!!!!
Insert sarcasm.
December 7, 2010 at 1:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
Go to Charlotte Iserbyt videos for Sovereign Solutions.......This is a real eye opener--Holy Cow!!!
December 7, 2010 at 1:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Thank you Karmadog for your volunteerism.
I truly mean that.
I questioned your employment only because you sounded much like an acquaintance who works for the board.
As far as the rest of we posters are concerned, I think there are more than a few of us who do much in the way of community service. Some just don't feel the need to broadcast our name when we do it.
As far as running for office, a person should do that only if they feel they are up to the job of serving to the best of their ability. I don't think my health would allow that now or I would run for office.
Someone has to do it !
I know that anyone running for the board that promises to stop building will get my vote.
December 7, 2010 at 1:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
I wish these people that want to spend money in an economic downturn would review the video Alex Jones It's the Bankers or Us.
December 7, 2010 at 1:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
marko (anonymous) says...
I wish someone would learn how to post a link, then I remember what mamma used to say regarding wishes and horses.
December 7, 2010 at 1:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
chasecountycrawfords (anonymous) says...
its a move where the kids lose...sorry...that is my thought, plain and simple.
December 7, 2010 at 1:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
I have volunteered my own personal time and money, several times to try and make the lives of all Emporians better, by trying to get companies and businesses interested in locating/building in Emporia or the surrounding area, so jobs would be created. I will admit that I have not been very successful, but at least numerous world wide companies, know something about Emporia, where it is and most importantly, there are a few in Emporia who have taken it upon themselves and spend their own money to contact them .
It is my solomn opinion, if the jobs base is not expanded, thereby expanding the tax base of Emporia and Lyon County ... Emporia and Lyon County with their mentality of spend/borrow then tax beyound the ability of the dwindling taxpayer and job base that now exists in Emporia and Lyon County .... Emporia and Lyon County and its taxpayers and future taxpayers will either be forever deeply in debt for the foreseeable future of generations of taxpayers to come or doomed to wither and die from the weight of the excessive debt, caused by borrowing, spending and taxing !
Someone mentioned " Energy Stimulus Money " ! Wasn' t that money spent on a multimillion dollar fake grass field for the highschool ?
Tsk, Tsk, what a waste of " Taxpayer Funded Stimulus Money " !
How many of you/us want to leave our/your children, grandchildren,greatgrandchildren and so on, a legacy of mountainous debt that is/was not of their making ?
And I agree, totally, Steve ! Tax mil levy increases are in the future of each and every taxpayer in Emporia and Lyon County !
December 7, 2010 at 2:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Knock it off, karma dog, I don't like your attitude about who volunteers or runs for office. I volunteer plenty and sit on one very important advisory board in this town. What is more, since when was community service a requirement for having an opinion? If that were true, then a very small percentage of the population would have a right to an opinion. That is not the way it works in a democracy. Are you the opinion police?
December 7, 2010 at 2:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
I don't feel that I have any obligation to justify or earn my right to express an opinion on this forum. Nor do I feel that I owe anyone an explanation for what I post, or how many times I do so. But just so you will know.....I don't volunteer for community service much anymore because it is all I can do to breath well-enough to get through my day. That is also why I post so often......it is one of the few things I can do. I do not however believe that in any way should diminish my ability to express my opinion. I also have noticed that the ones most likely to express frustration with the frequency of my postings are the ones that always disagree with me.
karmadog......I am glad you are able to volunteer and be a part of the community and I thank you for your service. And I hope you are thankful also that you are still able to do so.
My problem with the conclusions arrived at by the study commission was their total predictability. You can go to the bank on the reliability with which any decision made by the school board concerning building allocations will result in the need to build something new. But what more can you expect when the decision is being guided by an architect. I also question some of the supposed needs listed for the Lowther schools such as nearly two million dollars in new ceilings, floors and paint. Some paint!
There is also the wisdom of building a new building right now just so you can close another one that you are still going to have to keep up until some point in the future when the economy improves to where you can sell that building. If that's the case.....Put the new building on hold and keep using the old one until the economy does improve.
But as usual, the whole thing here as always is to build something new.....Why?........Because that's where the moneuy is.
December 7, 2010 at 3:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BigRed (anonymous) says...
"The middle school would see a 15,000 square foot addition that would house eight core classrooms, four resource classrooms and three support rooms at a cost of $3.38 million."
Emporia is tearing down 16,000 square feet of huts at the fair ground. Just move them out to the junior high and problem solved!
December 7, 2010 at 3:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
ROFLMAO, portable classrooms!
December 7, 2010 at 3:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BigRed (anonymous) says...
Seriously, why not move the 5th graders back to the grade schools where there is room for them and either moth-ball one building or rehab it and move 6th grade into it the next year?
The board should look at the lower enrollment as an opportunity to save $ or make needed repairs to a building, not as an excuse to build new buildings.
December 7, 2010 at 3:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
exactly BigRed
But even in a time of declining enrollment they can still figure out a way to build new buildings.
December 7, 2010 at 3:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
citizenT (anonymous) says...
Why not use those buildings for new housing like they did with the old hospital? Another article posted today said someone wanted to build more housing, let's just put to use what we already have?
December 7, 2010 at 3:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
citizenT,
Your idea for housing could work except for one thing.
The property tax on those buildings if owned by a private developer would be prohibitive, not to mention the cost of converting them into individual units.
Of course the chamber and RDA could get the federal or state government to buy them for say, a prison?
December 7, 2010 at 3:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
cdl84 (anonymous) says...
It's interesting reading these comments now that the committee is finished with their work. The public was invited to attend the last board meeting and speak up about their feelings towards all of the scenarios that the committee was looking at. Do you know how many people came to speak up and voice their opinion? NONE!! So those of you who are complaining now....you had your chance! I guess it's easier to sit back and do nothing, and complain later, than to get up off of your laptop and go to a board meeting!
December 7, 2010 at 3:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
cdl84, hate to break it to you, but 300 people could have squeezed into those meetings and the outcome would be the same.
December 7, 2010 at 3:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
The outcome you have now is the same outcome you were going to have before the study committee was ever formed.
December 7, 2010 at 3:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Not knocking the study committee here but that is the way these things work, The laymen on the committee are selectively fed information and gently guided towards a decision by the same people that have a vested interest in the outcome.
It's the same way a skilled prosecutor will guide a grand jury towards an indictment. The committee (or grand jury) being out of it's comfort zone is easily led by the professional guiding them.
December 7, 2010 at 4:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Outsource it all. Give each kid a computer & internet connection at home, and then have a teacher from India teach them remotely over video conference for about a dollar an hour. Think of all the money it would save.................
December 7, 2010 at 4:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BigRed (anonymous) says...
I live in Stilwell and have no say in what the board does. But my wife and I used to live in Emporia and left, partially due to the way that city is run. There is a send mentality in Emporia that goes well beyond the school board. I believe it started when Wolf Creek was being built and Emporia enjoyed a large tax base. Instead of recognizing that was a temporary situation, the city/county/school board began spending freely and hasn't stopped yet.
December 7, 2010 at 4:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
HELP WANTED !
PLEASE APPLY BEFORE JAN. 15, 2011
4 positions open for unpaid volunteer work.
Must be able to work WITH the public and supervise a multimillion business.
Prefer someone who can say no.
Persons on a fixed income are a plus.
Must love children, both in the present and the ones to come.
December 7, 2010 at 4:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
As I didn't go to the meetings and such and won't be going to the meeting tomorrow, could the Gazette readers be enlightened just who the members of this committee are?
December 7, 2010 at 4:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BigRed (anonymous) says...
Does USD 253 have other buildings moth-balled? Any grade schools? If so, maybe they should be reopened and move both 5th and 6th grades back to the grade schools.
December 7, 2010 at 4:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
"Prefer someone who can say no."
Does that mean you prefer folks from the "Party of No"? ;-) lol
December 7, 2010 at 4:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Heck, I don't care what party they are. They could be members of the communist party or the pampered chef / Tupperware party. As long as they can say no to unneeded expensive options handed to them as the only options.
beige is best.
December 7, 2010 at 4:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
And I kinda liked your idea about internet teaching.
The only problem is too many parents really don't care about their kids learning at school, they just want the day care.
NOTICE I DIDN'T SAY ALL PARENTS.
December 7, 2010 at 5 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Another possibility BigRed.
K-6 grades in elementary
7,8,9 middle school
10,11,12,13th high school.
December 7, 2010 at 5:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
cdl84 (anonymous) says...
Mr. Corbin,
The committe members were made of teachers, parents, and members of the community.
It's a shame that you believe that it wouldn't have mattered what the community members would have said, had any shown up at the board meeting. The committee was looking forward to receiving public input to help them guide their recommendations. There is another board meeting tomorrow night....you are more than welcome, Mr. Corbin, to attend and speak your peace. Maybe some of your "complaints" could be answered!
December 7, 2010 at 5:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
cdl84 (anonymous) says...
I apologize, I left out an "e" on the end of committee! I guess I should have proofread more carefully!
December 7, 2010 at 5:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justaflushaway (anonymous) says...
STOP HAVING KIDS
December 7, 2010 at 5:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sail (anonymous) says...
Glad that we as citizens can and do question if our elected officials are good stewards of our tax $$$$$.
December 7, 2010 at 6:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
cdl84
Those of us who have lived in Emporia for quite sometime and have attended the so called " Public Input " sessions of the Board of Education, City Commission and County Commission, know all too well that the three entities previously mentioned only have so called " Public Input /opinion/sugesstion meetings to satisfy a State Statute requirement and nothing more !
These entities have already made up their minds as to what they " Want " and any Public Input/Opinion/Suggestion meeting is purely for " Show " and any Public Input / Opinion or Suggestion is looked at as so much " B.S., Nonsense and Crank drivel '" and given little or no consideration by those who serve on these Boards and Commissions, what so ever ... as the people who serve on the Boards and Commissions have the attitude that we as public taxpayers know nothing and are only here to fund there extragant spending by way of higher and higher tax burdens.
I have been to way too many of these Public Meetings, given my suggestions/input and have always come away from them, disappointed, disillusioned and more frustrated than before I attended the public meetings !
I have explained why I will not serve on any of these Boards, Committees or Commissions, but here is my explaination in short version. I refuse to conform to the SOP of these Boads, Committees and Commissions. I am an Independent doer and thinker and conform to noones standards or SOP.
December 7, 2010 at 7 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
BigRed
To my recollection, every school the district has closed in modern times has been reopened either for limited classroom use or as office space soon afterwards. I'm thinking specifically of Maynard, Mary Herbert, and that school on south Exchange St. None of been left mothballed or sold.....just closed long enough to get the new building.
Steve
I agree beige is best. Green is second. As to your 5;03 post.....wasn't that what we had when we called it junior high back before they decided to build a new middle school......
December 7, 2010 at 7:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
cookatwork (anonymous) says...
Seriously? Who said there is room for the 5th graders in the Elementary schools? Have you visited lately? You can hardly move in the classrooms. I, too, say the best option is Beige, for now. Wait until the buildings can be sold and THEN add on to the Middle School and make it a TRUE Middle School and build and place 5th through 8th in that building.
Coming to the meetings......... well........... I happen to agree.......... I have been to many of the meetings and I have, also, walked away very disappointed and feeling like the Board already had made up it's mind prior to the meeting and were just placating the rest of us. The last meeting I attended they actually started the "public voice" portion of the meeting by stating "we will not be entertaining any comments in regards to _________" The ______ being the opposing point of view. I quit going after that.
December 7, 2010 at 7:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
And then, with the outsourcing, we could have even more unemployed Americans, and extend unemployment benefits even further! Pretty soon everyone will be on the government payroll........ (which I'm beginning to suspect is what they want....) If you break everyone and destroy the economy then income redistribution is alot easier to implement ;-)
December 7, 2010 at 8:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rcakmon (anonymous) says...
I was on the publicity committee for the bond issue when the two new elementary schools were built. The theme we used was 'Room to Grow." We chose that because the elementary schools were so overcrowded. Special area teachers such as Speech, O.T, Hearing/Vision, Title Reading & Math, Special Education, etc. were working with kids in storage closets, hallways, and any nook or cranny they could find. So now this committee has proposed a big step backward for the district. Moving the fifth grade back to the elementary schools will cause the same over-crowding issues faced before.
Also, there was a lot more done than painting in the two Lowther buildings. New carpet in the offices/classrooms, paint, blinds, other flooring replaced, new office furniture, and more. At Lowther South there was extensive renovation in the basement taking out the old locker rooms and adding new restrooms, an art room, and a therapy room for children with disabilities. What a waste!
December 7, 2010 at 8:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
cdl84,
No, I won't waste my time attending a meeting, when the decision has already been made. I am sure the board is or will be aware of mine and a few others concerns about this issue. After all, what is the big rush to get this done before an election.
If I were running for re-election to the board I sure wouldn't want to upset the electorate. The only question being answered at tomorrows meeting will be do the board members want to?
Of course this is just my opinion.
December 7, 2010 at 8:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
custom (anonymous) says...
NO! you can't tear them down. What about all my childhood memories there. I'll start a save the Lowthers group. It'll work just like the hut goup did. You'll see.
December 7, 2010 at 9:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
Most people don't go to meetings because they believe there is a predetermined planned agenda that they can't overcome and by the way Jerry Moran was in town and said the goverment is broke--something to think about.
December 7, 2010 at 9:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jh198 (anonymous) says...
Just a couple thoughts....
Like most of you, I knew which option would be selected way back when they were generated. Unlike most of you, I was teaching in the district at the time. Having been through the "efficiency study" experience twice in my short teaching career, I've got the general feel for how it works.
In this case, the blue option was really the only option. Not because the board wants to spend a ton of money and build build build, but rather because it is the best option.
One of the factors that impacts students learning (K-12) is the number of "transitions" that take place within their academic careers. Emporia was rather unique in that students switched schools 5 times. I'll be happy to point you to a few studies that have measured the amount of academic loss attributed to each transition. Each time a transition occurs, students must acclimate themselves to a new environment. More or less, their energies are directed at finding where they fit rather than on academics.
Transitions aside, the buildings in question are really not in good shape. Teachers at the North building report that black mold is growing throughout the building. Ceiling tiles which were replaced over the summer are covered in the stuff. The basement of the north building smells like a dungeon. Neither building has adequate insulation. The classrooms on the North and East sides of the buildings freeze during the Winter. You can actually feel a breeze when standing next to the closed windows.
Now, much of the renovations needed on the facilities is cosmetic. But, there are deeper issues such as plumbing and electrical wiring. Stringing Cat-5 cables over the door-jams isn't the safest way to get a building internet-ready. Before you say they can just skip that stuff...note that fun stuff like the State Assessments must be done on-line!
The fact that we just built 2 new elementary schools actually helps us in this scenario. Enrollment took a big hit with the "down-sizing" of Tyson. The first thing the "efficiency" folks did was to determine whether the 5th grade could fit into the existing elementary schools. Without a doubt, it can.
I went through this exact scenario in a neighboring county. Their district operated in 3 buildings and consolidated to 2, with additions being made to the high-school. The financial burden was generally absorbed by funds they received from the state. Oddly, you can get grants for building projects but you can't get grants for textbooks and salaries....
Anyway, looking at it purely from the academic angle, the district will better serve the students by removing 2 transitions from their schooling.
December 7, 2010 at 9:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Moran = Moron, figures you would listen to that kook.
December 7, 2010 at 9:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
SimpleGifts (anonymous) says...
As a para working in both Lowther North and Lowther South buildings, I completely disagree with the implication that these buildings are in poor shape. They are absolutely beautiful and in great shape, especially considering their age. (I've never seen black mold in Lowther North, and I work in the basement.) I come from a town similar to Emporia that did this exact thing, closed 3 older buildings in order to pass a bond issue to build a new one. Problem is, the bond failed, and the buildings sold before the election (to ensure people would be pressured to pass it). 2 of those "crumbling" buildings stand today as a Christian school and a Bible college...fully functioning and still in great shape. The third remains empty, windows broken, playground equipment gone...generally making the neighborhoods around it look depressed and lowering property values in that part of town. I agree with earlier comments that the committee was guided to their decision by people who wanted a new addition...
I also question the figures quoted regarding cost to keep the buildings open versus cost to close them. There is more than just the heating/cooling costs here, there are good staff who don't deserve to lose their jobs, and kids who deserve the chance to experience these beautiful buildings. In this economy, we need to consider the impact to the people of this community, not just the utilities involved.
And for goodness sake, PRIORITIZE!! Not Everything needs to be updated. You don't have to paint the entire school, just touch up the scratches. Definitely insulate the gym windows at Lowther South (that should have been done years ago) and wire for internet, but not everything must be torn apart or thrown away to make a child's education successful.
Save Our Schools!!
December 7, 2010 at 10:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
SimpleGifts (anonymous) says...
One last thing: Beige or Red options seem a far better choice than Blue/Build. Either keep things As Is (at least for now), updating as possible to cut costs and improve efficiency, OR if the need to eliminate transitions for the kids is the priority, still update as necessary and keep the buildings...but make them a 5th/6th building and let the kids stay in "their" building until Middle School.
I really don't understand why "mothballing" buildings is even an option...especially when that necessitates building an addition for all the kids who are currently being served quite well in the buildings already!!
December 7, 2010 at 10:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
cab1198 (anonymous) says...
Ten years from now, the shiny new building will need to be upgraded. Two beautiful pieces of architecture stand close to the downtown area that Emporia has been struggling to revitalize, after we built that shiney new mall all of those years ago. It'll be interesting to see what Emporians do when this bond issue comes up to the vote. All who oppose this decision, here is your chance to make a difference in that community!! And Simplegifts, you need to help educate and lead the charge!
December 7, 2010 at 10:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
BISCUITBOY great post on the study committee. You need to put your name on that one.
December 7, 2010 at 10:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
Goodoleboys ain't what they used to be and probably never was. I think I have some things in common with the goodoleboys to have an enjoyable relationship--BUT THE LITTLE DIFFERENCES WILL MAKE IT INTERESTING. Someone once said,"if you are yearning for the good ole school days--turn off the air conditioner and walk to school IN THE SNOW.
December 7, 2010 at 11:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
you all can have fun with that one. GOOD NIGHT AND I'M OUT OF HERE AND WON'T LOOK BACK.
December 7, 2010 at 11:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Well I know how I would vote on the bond issue.....and I have rarely ever voted against any education funding measure. But maybe it's time that changes.
December 7, 2010 at 11:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
marko (anonymous) says...
am totally shocked no one has suggested using the old Big Lots Building
December 7, 2010 at 11:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
genxer (anonymous) says...
I'm convinced that Emporia has more bumbling idiots per capita than anywhere else in the world. Maybe we should put that on some huge limestone rocks at the major entrances to Emporia.
I'd like to know who the moron is who came up with this idea in the first place.
Why hasn't this basic upkeep been an ongoing effort year in and year out??? For the sake of argument let's say that those building are in such disrepair that they need to be mothballed. Who is responsible for that and why haven't they been FIRED?
Building new should never have been an option. I don't run my house into the ground until it is no longer liveable and then build a new one. Just do the repairs on the existing buildings.
I CANNOT believe they are considering moving forward with this crap.
December 8, 2010 at 12:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
As noted earlier, I did some work in Lowther North about four years ago. I worked in all parts of the building over a period of about six weeks. About a year later we spent a month doing a lot of painting on the inside of that building.
I was amazed at how good a shape the building was in considering that I had attended high school there in the late fifties and it was far from a new building even then. While working there the only black mold I ever saw was in a couple of janitorial closets and were primarily housekeeping problems.
Later we worked on an apartment building that had a lot of black mold. We corrected the moisture problems and repaired the mold damage......Nobody even suggested we tear the building down or discard it. Of course that was private enterprise. It wasn't going to be paid for by the taxpayers.
This is just a bunch of crap designed to get people convinced we need to build more buildings. And now they are crying about transitions. We didn't have all these transitions until the school board put them in place with the system we have now. And why did they do that? To justify building new buildings. Now they want to build some more so those transitions that were good back then are bad now......:-(
December 8, 2010 at 3:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Good comment, genexer. We don't ordinarily agree, but on this we do.
Had an ongoing and substantial effort at upkeep been done, no problems with those buildings would exist. Instead, as with most school buildings, every problem is given a lick and a promise because not enough money is ever given for maintenance. They wait until the problems become huge and expensive to fix.
The house I live in was built in 1892 and it's in very good shape because I fix every problem as it arises. It's less expensive that way.
December 8, 2010 at 6:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sail (anonymous) says...
Well, can the board build this addition w/o a bond election,I rather doubt the voters will fall for the pizza month cost again.
December 8, 2010 at 7:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
I sure wont....not on this one I wont.
December 8, 2010 at 7:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Exactly create.......they wait until the problem gets big and expensive to fix.....then they build a new building.
Then they turn right around and keep the old buildings anyway. Maynard school was closed to justify building Riverside.....Maynard is still used by the school district. Mary Herbert was closed in part to justify building Timmerman.......Mary Herbert is still used by the school district. The same thing goes for that old school on South Exchange that has been closed for so long I can't even remember what it was called.......it's still used by the district.
The transitions we are now complaining about were all right when the present system was put in place to justify building the middle school. Now they are bad enough to require building a new addition to that school so we can eliminate transitions.
Meanwhile we are going to move more students back to the grade schools and you can rest assured it won't be long before overcrowding at the grade schools will be used to justify building some thing new.
December 8, 2010 at 7:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
genxer
You are absolutely right about preventive maintenance at the core of making anything last and saving money !
On another note : Here are some questions I would like to see the School Board leaders answer .
Have you the leaders of our educational system, purposely set about neglecting the preventive maintenance of these buildings, in order try and justify building a new building that you want ?
If you have not purposely neglected these buildings or did not know that these buildings needed maintenance and repair .... Why did you not, physically tour these buildings personally and see first hand the maintenance/disrepair or repair that was needed, but obviously neglected to be done ?
Why did you as the " Stewards " of our educational property and taxpayer funded education money not know about the maintenance neglect, lack of repairs and ask questions about the problems, long before and if the building maintenance supervisor is still employed by the Board ..... Why, they obviously are not doing the job ?
Why did the Board of Education elect to spend a large portion of the stimulous money on an artifical field at the High School, when they obviously knew, full well, the money should have been spent on at least two perfectly good school buildings, in order to make them useable for a longer period of time ?
Have you, the School Board member not heard the lates revelation ... The State is " Broke or Near Broke ", the people of Lyon County and The City of Emporia are sick and tired of the " Borrow, Spend and Tax " policies of our elected leaders and are you our " Elected " leaders trying to " Bankrupt " everyone ?
I have numerous questions/suggestions or comments, but from experience know that the public taxpayers question, suggestions, opinions and comments have not and will not be given any serious thought or satisfactory answers, when asked . Whether it be in person at a meeting or on a forum such as this one !
Finally, I believe that most all of us know that when the School Board, City Commission and County Commission has made up their minds before hand, they want something, regardless of cost or consequences, they are going to do it, come Hell or High Water and absolutely nothing is going to change their minds !
December 8, 2010 at 8:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
biscuitboy,
Kansas Avenue School?
December 8, 2010 at 8:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
P.S.
Here is another question I am dying to ask .
Why did the School Board approve the purchase of 5 Wii game decks to be used in 1 or more Emporia schools or any school for that matter ?
December 8, 2010 at 8:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
That's it.....Thanks Steve!
December 8, 2010 at 8:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
alfalfa (anonymous) says...
All things considered, building new in these financial times and scrapping those two buildings will go over like the proverbial turd in a pickle barrel with taxpayers, especially after the astro turf fiasco. We will hear over and over again come January how strapped schools are, and how we have to cough up more money "for the kids". Guess what, the taxpayers are strapped too. These are times where the motto has to be "make do".
I did 8 years on a school board, so I hope it's OK for me to state an opinion here.
December 8, 2010 at 8:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Here is a simple fact. A building, whether it be new or old cannot and will not give a child the will and desire to learn !
The desire and will to learn is and has to be instilled in the child by parents who actively take a part in instilling the will to learn, get an education, as well as the teacher who want to and take pride in instilling the will and desire to learn in the child/children ! It is not the newness or oldness of the school building that does this . If this were true, then why are there second and third world countries, whos' children consistently place higher than the U.S. and other countries as far as learning and knowledge ? These countries do not have new multimillion dollar schools . It is because the children of these countries have the desire and will to learn .
I am proud to say my parents and our teachers, took the time to instill the will to learn and get an education in me and my sister ! And we both thank them for that !
We still have the desire and will to learn, even though I am nearing 70 and my sister is 55 !
And thank you create for being, I am sure the dedicated teacher you were and most likely still would be today !!!
December 8, 2010 at 8:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Ah, yes, biscuit and Steve ! Kansas Avenue, my old grade school . Lots of good memories of the school, pricipal and teachers there !
December 8, 2010 at 8:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
karmadog (anonymous) says...
Heating, cooling and maintaining 91,000 square feet of space for use by 275 people does not seem like the best use of our resources (Lowther North estimates). In fact, it seems rather elaborate. I thought this group was fiscally conservative. Price per pupil is pretty high with those two figures. I'm interested in learning why this is efficient? Thanks for any information.
December 8, 2010 at 10:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yev_kassem (anonymous) says...
karma--
You're right it might not be very efficient but sometimes bandaids are the better way to go. The buildings are functional as is. There is no reason to be forced to shut them down.
Would a new building or additions be a nice benefit to the district? Sure it would but does the cost out weigh the benefit? I sure don't think so. If the district wants a new building or wants to add on to existing buildings, maybe it can put that in the budget and I don't know....SAVE for the new building? Times are tough on a lot of people right now and I don't think asking the public to fund an unnecessary building is a wise move. School is being conducted in those buildings already and I would assume with just some minor repairs they could be maintained well enough to have school there for a couple of years. In the meantime the district can make some cuts and hopefully save part of the money required to build or add on. Or maybe by then the economy will turn and more Emporians would be willing to HELP foot the bill.
December 8, 2010 at 11:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Just a thought on a band aid for the north bldg. How about sheet rocking off the stairwells to the 3rd floor classrooms if they are not needed? One locked door on a north and south stairwell for emergency access up. Of course it's been a while since I've been in the building so i am not sure of the layout.
December 8, 2010 at 12:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
I live out of the district but what does amaze me is.............are they considering headcount? Has the population settled to a level it is going to maintain? In driving around you see all the "For Sale" signs, both private and business. With the economy as it is, is it wise to put the taxpayers deeper in debt? Aren't they already paying for two grade schools? How much more debt can the people absorb? Doesn't Emporia currently have one of the highest tax bases? If you were to loose either the bakery (it has been on thin ice) or Tyson, the State Board of Education is cut back MORE on tax funding, then what? It is predicted that 2012 will be THE year, for we have continued to borrow ahead and at that point it catches up and we will be unable to borrow. It is not only tomorrow but what about next year or the year after that????
December 8, 2010 at 1:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
cdl84 (anonymous) says...
I think some of you are missing a critical point of the committee's recommendation. Not only is the new addition to the middle school more cost effective than making the improvements to the Lowthers (which is simply a temporary fix to some aging buildings), another HUGE reason the committee recommended this proposal was to cut down on TWO transitions for students in the school district. This is extremely beneficial for our children! I am afraid that some of you are simply stuck on the $$$$ and "saving memories", and not looking at what is most important here....our children's future!
December 8, 2010 at 2:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
sorry cdl84,
It was only a few years ago that the board said these transitions from school to school were not harmful. And the recommendations for improvements at the downtown schools are a WISH LIST, not a necessity.
It is not people just on these blogs upset, I am hearing it all over town.
I guess we will find out tonight who on the board is serious about running for re-election.
i am looking out for :
OUR CHILDREN'S FUTURE !
I want them to grow up unsaddled by the debt we are piling on them because our idea of fixing things is throwing money at it.
Respectfully,
Steve
December 8, 2010 at 3:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
GreatDayInEmporia (anonymous) says...
2001 press release for National Historic Preservation Week:
"At the heart of every American community is the neighborhood school," said National Trust President Richard Moe. "In this age of sprawl, it's more important than ever to rediscover the role historic neighborhood schools play in towns and cities across the nation. Preservation Week is a time for students, families and communities to come together and rally round these marvelous and irreplaceable neighborhood anchors."
As part of the walking celebration, Emporia Main Street and the Lyon County Historical Society will sponsor two special activities. On May 17th, at the National Teacher’s Hall of Fame, 1320 C of E Drive, 5:30 p.m. to 7:30 p.m., the Emporia Board of Education will be recognized for its efforts to maintain Emporia's neighborhood schools... the interior of Lowther North Intermediate School has been renovated over the past three years by restoring and preserving many of its original architectural details. The school was built in 1914 as the high school. Similar projects are under way at Lowther South Intermediate School, built in 1923 as a junior high school.
December 8, 2010 at 3:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yev_kassem (anonymous) says...
cdl84--
I think you are missing the point. There is no money to do this. Just because it is a good idea does not mean it is a smart decision. Not all of the repairs on the existing buildings have to be done at once. Like I said earlier, both buildings are functional as it. Do what is necessary and start saving for a future expansion. Add a budget line that is specifically for additions to existing buildings and/or new buildings and start saving for them. Let some of these other bond issues and tax increases expire or the economy turn around. There is time....something doesn't HAVE to be done now.
December 8, 2010 at 3:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Now that was a classic rebuttle argument.
Thanks, it is a great day in Emporia !
December 8, 2010 at 3:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
Funny, I know people who served on the committee and they too are asking why they were even asked for their opinion if the school district was going to do what they wanted done as well.
December 8, 2010 at 3:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
GreatDayInEmporia (anonymous) says...
What has changed in Emporia's commitment to preserve, maintain, and appreciate those buildings? Whether evaluated from a fiscal or educational viewpoint, moving students from the Lowther Intermediate Schools does not seem to be a sound decision.
Also, the Technical School promotes green building and environmentally friendly building practices... why couldn't their expertise be utilized? Both buildings are clearly in need of updating; however, a well-planned and well-executed renovation could produce two beautiful and efficient buildings, creating an ideal setting for learning.
As building and development becomes increasingly environmentally conscious, students' awareness of such activity also increases. Continuing classes at Lowther will help students to appreciate and develop a relationship with their community as they see the role their campus has played in local history. The architecture and historical lessons offered by many buildings, such as the Lowther buildings and the Granada Theater from the same era, should be priceless to Emporia, not up for sale. As the saying goes, "The greenest building is the one already built."
December 8, 2010 at 3:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rcakmon (anonymous) says...
Well said, Steve!!! Glad you pointed out it was decided the transitions were fine not that long ago. People need to stop pushing the transition issue. It is not a big deal. There are a handful of kids that struggle with changing buildings but that shouldn't be the deciding factor for all kids and the cost involved. For every child it comes down to desire to learn, support from home, and the staff...NOT the building. This transition "crisis" is just another way for the BOE to justify the changes they want in place. People need to email and call the BOE members. If you go the district website you can find the link for BOE members. Their email and phone numbers are listed.
December 8, 2010 at 5:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
booker5m (anonymous) says...
How many times has the statement "Its for the children" been used? They tell us build new schools that what business look for. Ok We have 3 fairly new schools plus an addition to 2 more where are the businesses?
December 8, 2010 at 5:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
hornet08 (anonymous) says...
This may be a dumb question but why can't they close one of the buildings and use the other for a 5th and 6th grade building?
December 8, 2010 at 8:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nks (anonymous) says...
I have been asked to sit on some USD committees in the past to represent the public. I agree with some posters that our ideas for cuts, ideas, etc went by the way side or were hit with a wall of resistance. No matter how logical the ideas were, we were fed the run around and why this cant happen, etc....
I truly do not feel all of the decision makers are thinking about who is benefiting or being hurt by their decisions. My impression was that they were more worried about "taking care of their own", such as saving jobs, avoiding pay cuts, and not increasing work loads vs the impact on the children.
December 8, 2010 at 8:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
HELP WANTED !
PLEASE APPLY BEFORE JAN. 15, 2011
4 positions open for unpaid volunteer work.
Must be able to work WITH the public and supervise a multimillion business.
Prefer someone who can say no.
Persons on a fixed income are a plus.
Must love children, both in the present and the ones to come.
December 8, 2010 at 8:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ksnewsie (anonymous) says...
I, for one, have not seen any details of the proposal. Apparently, those of you who have decided what's best for the community know details that I don't (i.e. cost to build as oppose to cost to renovate; having students attend five schools by graduation instead of three). I think I will wait for more information before climbing on my stump.
December 8, 2010 at 8:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
ksnewsie,
i think the details are out there, maybe not the Gazette. Still trying to find out the names of those on this advisory committee.
I for the life of me cannot see what the huge hurry is in deciding this. with the state of the state budget, why are we rushing to build more "space" for a declining enrollment?
Isn't USD 253 paying fees to the same group that is suing the state for more funding. OH wait, our district is not a plaintiff in the suit, we are just paying dues to the group?
Why are we just now bringing up "mold issues, transition issues, and renovation and energy issues"? Emporia taxpayers are being fed a full course of bull. I for one am tired of it.
of course that is just my opinion;>)
December 8, 2010 at 9:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
jh198,
you stated:
"Now, much of the renovations needed on the facilities is cosmetic. But, there are deeper issues such as plumbing and electrical wiring. Stringing Cat-5 cables over the door-jams isn't the safest way to get a building internet-ready. Before you say they can just skip that stuff...note that fun stuff like the State Assessments must be done on-line!"
Now I am not tech smart, but isn't there something called " wireless"?
December 8, 2010 at 9:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
jh 198,
Don't want to pick on you but you also stated;
"Anyway, looking at it purely from the academic angle, the district will better serve the students by removing 2 transitions from their schooling."
That also could be said for one on one teacher to pupil ratio, but it is not financially feasible.
so let's try to go with what is good for the students, a good education. not a fancy new school.
December 8, 2010 at 9:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sail (anonymous) says...
Just a question for the GAZZ to check out, What were the # of students in the graduating class last year, how many employees at the boe office last year,how many students in the graduating class 10 years ago,and how many employees were in the boe 10 years ago, how many students were in the graduating class 20 years ago, and how many employees were in the boe. Do ya think we might find a rat hole where are money has gone to.
December 9, 2010 at 7:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
So let me see, hmmmm ! The 6 million dollars in energy stimulus money that was slated for improvements to the two Lowther schools, as well, as other schools, was spent partly, for an artificial turf field for the High school, so the babyfied athletes would not get dirty and the rest was supposed to be spent on Lowther North and South and other school needs, is that correct ?
And now instead of spending the rest of the stimulus money, that was and is funded by WE/US the taxpayers will be used to build an addition onto the middle school, that just happens to have some age on it and undoubtedly, also has some problems , and will require an amount of extra money that is not left in the Stimulus Grant, because it has been spent on plastic grass, is that correct ?
I am wondering if the Government that provided the Stimulus money know that it was not used as it was intended or represented that it would be used for ? You know, for energy upgrades to Lowther North & South and possibly other schools as well, such as new energy effecient doors and windows, new energy effecient heating and cooling, doors, insulation and etc. !!!
And I have heard many times, Stimulus Money is " Free Money " !
All I can say to such a ridiculous statement is, If you think Stimulus Money is " Free Money " you had better think again ! Stimulus Money is taxpayer funded " Money " and that does not make it " Free " Money !
There is a lesson to be learned here if one would just look, listen and see ! When you have certain people allowed to control large amounts of supposedly " Free Money or taxpayer funded Monies " the " I am in Control and I have already decided to do what I want " syndrome switches on and nothing will change the mind of that selfcentered controlling person and their attitude or way of thinking ! No matter how many or who of the people vehemently protest their actions ! Such is the attitude of the BOE, City Commission, County Commission, other government entities and those who serve on them, whether elected or appointed !
I would like to know the demographics of those who serve on the BOE !
There is more I would like to say about this, but have things I need to get done .
Just one last comment ! I absolutely agree with Steve Corbin, the BOE will definately be seeking a tax mil levy increase, sometime in the near future ! As I have said many times before when the Spend and Tax " Monster" gets on a runaway " Roll " there is no stopping it ... short of stopping it , except by way of a " Tax Revolt ", that is absolutely everyone, refusing to pay the absurd taxes that have been demanded of us and forced upon us by the certain few !
December 9, 2010 at 7:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Final comment, for now .
It would not have made any difference if 10 or 10,000 people would have showed up at the BOE meeting to protest what the BOE is proposing, the BOE would have approved the move and proceeded anyway .... as they had already decided to do what they are doing back in May or even possible way before that !
We the People, who pay the bill, have absolutely no say as to where, when or how our hard earned tax dollars are to or should be spent !
December 9, 2010 at 7:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
sail,
I e-mailed your comment to the reporter on this story, but I am not sure there will be a response to it.
It would make a good "Because You Asked" piece.
December 9, 2010 at 8:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Is there anyone that reads these forums that is upset about this and would run for the school board?
There is a "Young Gun" that just filed for city commission. We do need a change up in local government.
December 9, 2010 at 8:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
hogan77 (anonymous) says...
Just another fine example of how Emporia is run. I cannot imagine that there are very many middle or lower class people on the school board, and more than likely no one that really gives a crap about the kids.
Last I saw, there was absolutely nothing wrong with the Lowther schools. In my opinion, the middle school never should have been built. If they only would have kept it the way it used to be... grades K-5th in the Elementary schools, 6th-8th at Lowther, and then 9th on up at the high school.
It's simply a sad day when committees in Emporia would much rather build, build, build than to preserve something older, better built and more attractive.
December 9, 2010 at 3:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
doubt_it (anonymous) says...
What qualifications are needed to run for a position on the school board? Might be interested if I knew whether or not I would be qualified.
December 10, 2010 at 8:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
It is incredible to me that many in this community have been having a cow to try and save four old rusty tin cans on the fairground.....but it is apparently quite all right to discard two classic old building with historical significance. The priorities there are screwed!
December 10, 2010 at 9:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
I would love to run and fight this to the hilt Steve. But as you know all too well......my checkered past would preclude my ever being elected to any office. And that is probably a blessing...:-)
December 10, 2010 at 9:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
uranidiot (anonymous) says...
If they had kept the huts at the fairgrounds we could have used those as class rooms. LOL
December 10, 2010 at 9:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
doubt_it
This taken from the article "will they run again posted earlier;
How to run
The deadline to register to run is noon Jan. 25.
City commission candidates must be 18 years of age, a US Citizen, a registered voter and an Emporia resident. The same requirements apply for school board with the candidate having to reside within the school district boundaries.
City commissioners make $500 a month. School board members are not paid.
There are two options for how to file. City candidates can pay a $10 filing fee or have a petition signed by 47 registered Emporia voters. Susan Mendoza, city clerk, recommends getting a few extra signatures and turning it a little early so there is time to verify signatures. Either way, there is a $35 state registration fee to run.
School board candidates can pay a $5 filing fee or have a petition signed by 50 registered voters who live in USD 253.
Riles and Strickland said they have some advice for people thinking about running for the school board.
“Keep an open mind and know there’s always more than two sides to the story,” Riles said.
Strickland added: “Make sure you’re dedicated.”
In the city election, the top two voters receive four-year terms while the person with the third most vote receives a two-year term.
There is one change from past election. Mendoza said now a primary would be held if the number of candidates is more than triple the number of openings. It used to be double the number.
For city commission, 10 or more candidates would trigger a primary. For school board, 13 candidates would force a primary. The primary would be March 1, if necessary.
Question for the city election can be directed to the city clerk’s office at 343-4241. School board election questions should be directed to the county clerk’s office at 341-3244.
December 10, 2010 at 11:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
hogan77,
When i attended school here it was K-6th grade-elementary
7,8,9th junior high -south bldg.
10,11,12th high school- north bldg.
Graduated, (barely) in 1970.
December 10, 2010 at 11:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
doubt_it (anonymous) says...
Thanks for the information, Steve. I will check into it.
December 10, 2010 at 11:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
GreatDayInEmporia (anonymous) says...
Biscuitboy, I’ll trade you four quonsets for a Lowther. :) just kidding.
Though I no longer live in Emporia, it saddens and infuriates me that local landmarks in my hometown are being neglected in favor of new construction. Along with the people, aren't those landmarks what make the community "positively Emporia?"
There are many reasons why preservation and renovation of Lowther North and South, among other historic buildings, would be beneficial to the community. The fifth and sixth grade years are a vulnerable time for students, and Lowther Intermediate School presents an ideal environment to encourage cognitive and social development before students enter the middle school setting. Sixth grade students attending middle school with older students typically have lower test scores and more frequently disciplinary issues than those who do not. To accommodate declining enrollment, the two grades could be combined in one building, reducing operating costs for the district. In LNIS, the third floor could serve sixth grade, the second floor could serve fifth grade, the first floor could host support classrooms, and the basement could serve as administrative offices and storage. By updating Lowther, jobs would be created, revenue would be generated for the community, and most importantly, students would have an efficient and beautiful building conducive to learning.
I do not see how an addition to the middle school (devoid of any recognizable architectural character) is in accordance with “green” or “sustainable” practices promoted by various community organizations. Federal legislation encourages the maintenance of historical school buildings, making “green school modernization, renovation and repair part an allowable use of funds under the state fiscal stabilization fund in the H.R. 1, American Recovery and Reinvestment Act… ensuring that school districts will quickly receive funds for school modernization, renovation, and repairs that create healthier, safer, and more energy-efficient teaching and learning climates.” Support and leadership for historic revitalization, in the forms of money and manpower, can be also found at the state and federal level from non-government agencies such as Kansas Preservation Alliance, Inc. and the National Trust for Historic Preservation.
December 10, 2010 at 11:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
GreatDayInEmporia (anonymous) says...
From the Historic Hawai’i Foundation (http://www.historichawaii.org/WhyPres... ):
Historic preservation is a powerful economic engine. In an overwhelming number of economic development studies, historic preservation is a demonstrated tool for providing jobs, increasing household income, increasing the tax base and increasing tourism dollars.
Preservation creates jobs. Because rehabilitation and restoration activities work with existing materials, projects are labor intensive and create more jobs than new construction. While the overall cost of projects is often comparable to building new, the economic benefit is much greater from preservation activities through the creation of well-paying local jobs.
Historic preservation is beneficial to the community in the following ways:
• Culturally a community is richer for having the tangible presence of past eras and historic styles.
• Economically a community benefits from increased property values and tax revenues when historic buildings are protected and made the focal point of revitalization and when the community is attractive to visitors seeking heritage tourism opportunities.
• Socially a community benefits when citizens take pride in its history and mutual concern for the protection of the historic building fabric.
• Developmentally a community benefits from having a concerted and well-defined planning approach for the protection of historic buildings while accommodating healthy growth.
• Environmentally a community benefits when historic buildings are restored or rehabilitated rather than demolished and disposed of in the community landfill.
• Educationally a community benefits through teaching local heritage and the understanding of the past and the resultant cultural respect by its citizens.
December 10, 2010 at 11:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
hogan77 (anonymous) says...
Steve:
The way I mentioned was the way it was set up when I attended school there in Emporia. Went to elementary at Logan Avenue, although then we had our 5th grade classes at the old Kansas Avenue school. 6th grade was spent in Lowther North, 7th and 8th was Lowther South, then high school.
I don't see a problem with keeping 6th graders with the elementary, although for space and transition reasons I think it might be a better option to put 6th grade with 7th and 8th. With some kids, it just takes a little longer transition period, a little longer to prep for high school.
I just think it is sad that people would rather have newer and better than to keep up the old. Honestly, I think that it is a much better option to keep Lowther as schools, rather than to let them sit and rot. I also think it was ridiculous and frivolous for the High School to get new "grass", when that money could have been used towards making the older schools more energy efficient- to last longer.
It really makes me glad I decided NOT to come back to Emporia. I had considered coming back so my daughter could attend school there, but seeing how they treat things there, how they supposedly "do it for the kids", I am glad I kept her where I did. She is much better off where she is at now.
December 10, 2010 at 12:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
GreatDayInEmporia, hogan77,
It is great to hear from former Emporians and your comments and opinions !
I was born in Emporia, raised in Emporia and went through the Emporia school system, from Kindergarten to KSTC ( ESU now ) and recieved, what may be a better education then, than now, even with all the new schools/additions being or wanting to be built !
My father also went 6th, 7th and 8th grade in Emporia at which time he had to quite school, to help on the family farm, worked and lived in Emporia all of his life and died here as did my mother !
I used to love Emporia and the way everyone, including the leaders always had consideration for what the consequences of their actions may cause or have on " ALL OF THE PEOPLE AND CHILDREN " of Emporia ? However, in the last 3 to 4 decades that has not been the case ! And the schools were always maintained in escellant/good condition . However, it would seem that the plan now-a-days or in past years is to let the buildings or at least " Select " ones decay and run down so there will be an excuse to build " something New " ! If you are old or aging in Emporia you will be abandoned, rejected or scourned, in favor of the new !
And the tax burden for the leadrs spending is getting " Unbearable " for a lot of Emporias citizens !
I absolutely envy both of you for not having to put with all of the B.S. spending and taxing that the leaders of Emporia and Lyon County are doing !
And since neither of you live in Emporia any longer your comments and opinions will hold no weight or influence among the leaders of Emporia .
How ever I for one, do appreciate your comments, input and opinions !
Thank you and have a wonderful Christmas and New Year !
December 10, 2010 at 12:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
GreatDay
You wrote, "Because rehabilitation and restoration activities work with existing materials, projects are labor intensive and create more jobs than new construction. "
That is exactly right....It is also exactly the reason the old boy network prefers new construction. Labor intensive does not pay as well for the Architects, engineers, Contractors, material suppliers as new construction does. And they are not nearly as interested in creating good paying local jobs as they are in maximizing their profits. And they are the ones with all the clout and influence when it comes to making these decisions.
December 10, 2010 at 2:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
hogan77 (anonymous) says...
Methusla:
I completely understand that none of my comments will hold any weight, I just had to speak my mind about this whole situation. It is a shame that some upper class people in Emporia do not see the significance in keeping the older buildings up and running. Those will some day, if not already, be on the Historical Register. There is something special about those Lowther buildings. Whether it is because it is where my grandmother had went to high school at, or perhaps because of the stories involved there- with the tunnels and the architecture, they should be seen not as an eyesore, but as a piece of history within a community that still serves a great purpose, like housing the children that live there. I understand they had a group come in and do some surveying, but quite frankly, what do those people know? They do not know the history, nor do they care. They do not have an ounce of care about the children, their education, or the greater good of the city of Emporia. They are only there so that the school board could push their agenda onto the parents and faculty. This is yet another thing that makes Emporia not worth living in. They changed the Christmas program right before I moved away. That one brought me to tears. Now they are doing this. It is such a sad, sad day.
Same to you Methusla... Have a wonderful Holiday Season, a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!!
December 10, 2010 at 10:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
To close those classic and beautiful old buildings just to justify building a nondescript addition onto a nondescript building on a backwater street is what brings a tear to my eye. As I walked between those buildings on Sixth Ave. this afternoon it really almost did.
Those two buildings....along with the Granada Theatre (now rescued)......and that magnificent old church on the old Cof E campus (now all boarded up and falling apart)...... are some of the best treasures this otherwise nondescript town has to offer. I can see why the powers-that-be would want to get rid of them.. As is they are detracting from the the mind numbing sameness that represents the rest of this town.
Now those old tin cans on the fairgrounds that we are wanting to save so badly.....they represent the true face of Emporia much better (comment dripping with sarcasm).
December 10, 2010 at 11:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
I got a good idea. How about we put all the students on the top floor and put all the school staff on the floor below. Then we put all the junk that is not needed in other buildings on the first floor and put all administrative personnel in the basement. Once everyone is comfortable, light the first floor on fire and see how fast all the historic structure lovers complain about why we didn't have modern school buildings that meet life and safety code?
Hopefully a disabled student and a disabled teacher block both sides of the stairwell with their wheel chairs and allow the fat in the bodies of the people in the floor below to really heat things up in that old building.
I'm being silly...O.K.? But let's get real!
We have a great fire department! They will be able to evacuate every body off of the roof with their asbestos helicopters and their heat resistant ladders.....Right?
What about that prison compound fence surrounding those two buildings? That wouldn't impede on any rescue efforts would it?
People! There are more than one reason to move those children into modern structures.
After the children are safe inside the modern school buildings, the historical society who feel that these antique relics are worth saving can bid on them at a public auction or something like that.
Why do I get a sense that those who are crying are the selfish government servants who will not have a reason to exist once the move is made.
Are these people concerned about student safety or personal career security?
That's all folks! Sorry for making your brain hurt!
December 11, 2010 at 1:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
I understand your reason for concern REWBA.....but those two building have stood there for almost 100 years as schools without any problems leading to lose of life. Of course it could happen tomorrow. An engine could also fall off a jet and hit the middle school next week, or the Mayans might come back and kill us all in 2012.
If the TSA has taught us anything it should be that spending millions of dollars to shake down 80-year-old caucasian grandmothers looking for terrorist bombs is wasteful caution to an extreme. So is this.....jmo
At least two people posting in opposition to this apparently are ex-residents, and you know what I am. So not all the opposition is based on personal career security.
December 11, 2010 at 4:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
If the million plus in energy stimulus money had not been spent on artificial turf at the high school, wouldn't that money have gone a long way in bringing the downtown buildings into a "REAL" energy savings mode for the district?
Weren't there problems with rock formations and an underground water source when the middle school was first constructed, and will there be any problems with the new addition?
Does the money being budgeted for the new middle school addition include additional space for a bigger lunch room, gymnasium , or even more restrooms or playground space, or will district patrons be hit for another bill, or bond issue later on for this?
What will be, if any, traffic and or parking problems after a new addition is built?
Are the downtown buildings really going to be mothballed for future sale, or will the board find a new use for them?
(at the same meeting wed. night the board extended the "Turning Point Learning Center, (AKA Flint Hills Learning Center), from grades K-8 to K-12.
Does that mean that program will be moved from the old Kansas Ave. school to one of the downtown buildings?
Some "concerns" voiced at a local Coffee shop.
December 11, 2010 at 6:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
I don't doubt that transitions became the talking point here in selling us on the need for the new addition. It may in fact be true that transitions are stumbling blocks for the children. I certainly can't argue the point either way with any credibility..
But credibility is an interesting word in this context. You may remember that we were sold on the need for the new high school and the new middle school partly by the covert (if not overt) suggestion that
the program they wanted to put in place to justify the need for those two major projects (Lowther North and Lowther South) were also good for the children.
So the question becomes.....were they lying to me then?......Or are they lying to me now? And that my friend is credibility. It increasingly appears to me that it makes no difference which program is "best for our children"......except to the extent that it helps sell what ever we are wanting to build next. As such, "best for our children" becomes nothing more than a talking point which makes it little more valuable to me than propaganda.....which talking points basically always are.
The bottom line is we will always come down on the side of building something new because that is important to the welfare of a lot of people with a lot of influence.
December 11, 2010 at 8:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
we could teach reddog a thing or 2 about copying & pasting, huh biscuitboy :>)
December 11, 2010 at 10:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
And with the mentality and thinking of Emporias' leadership and others, the whole downtown section of Emporia as well as the W. A. White House and any building/structure in Emporia that is over twenty years old should be or should have been torn down or demolished ! This may also go for people as well !
Here is a moto to put on the new $ 41, 000 entrance rocks !
YOU ARE NOW ENTERING EMPORIA OUR MOTO IS OUT WITH THE OLD AND IN WITH THE NEW
and beneath the above
IF YOU ARE OLDER THAN 20 OR 30 JUST KEEP ON GOING
sarcasim fully intended ! LOL
December 11, 2010 at 11:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
I know what you are saying biscuitboy but life and safety code is just one of the problems with those historical structures. Americans with Disabilities Act is another. Environmental considerations add onto the pile. But all of the concrete in those structures have steel bars inside. Over the years, steel that was put there to reinforce the concrete, will corrode, swell and compromise the structural integrity of the cement. You can't see it. You have to walk around with a hammer tapping the cement and listening for the pinging sound. If you get a dull thud, the cement is compromised. I've been in the basement of these structures. The walls have serious stress cracks at their bases. Does anyone have an idea how much one of those stairwells weigh? Do you think that a sixth grader could hold one up if it fell?
Those buildings are beautiful and they could be restored to their original condition but it can't be done with children running up and down the hallways. How many years went into restoring the Granada? The Lowthers are a whole lot bigger.
December 11, 2010 at 11:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
Here is something to think about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMCXjZ...
December 11, 2010 at 12:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
The Broadview is being restored and there are people living there while the work is being done !
The Lowther schools are older than either the Granada or Broadview !
Why can' t the Lowther schools be restored with a Historical restoration Grant ?
Kids are going to be moved into grade schools and two Middle School students comment on the other thread about this, that the Middle school as it stands is not being used to its full capacity or potential, so why not temporarily move the 5th graders to the grade schools as planed, have the sixth graders occupy one Lowther building or go to the Middle school while the Lowther buildings are being rejuvinated and then after one is rejuvinated , ( by a Historical Grant by the way ) move the 6th graders into the rejuvinated building and then rejuvinate the other and then Emporia would have two fine rejuvinated Energy Efficient, Historical School buildings, that the children and future children could use and learn in !
I don' t know of many buildings in Emporia or the Country that do not have some form of " Stress " fractures in them some where !
Should these structures and building also be mothballed, abandoned or demolished ?
Rejuvinating, Repairing, creates jobs and helps the economy also !
There were problems with the new High School while it was being built and after it was built and there are most likely, still ongoing problems with it ! The same can be said with the Middle School ! The same applies to the multi-million dollar Court House and as I understand, they are still having problems with it, such as roof, etc.. Should we mothball, abandon or demolish these structures ??? After all these structures are getting some age on them ! And the Neosho and Cottonwood Rivers are just flowing with 100 dollar bills ! All we need to do is go and scoop them up with a net !!!!
Hell, lets just all jump on that " Express Spend and Tax Train " to " Oblivion " as this train has no sensible engineer or brakes or way of slowing down, short of something causing it to " Derail " !
December 11, 2010 at 12:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Hell, while we are at it, lets just get rid of the Pyramids of Egypt, the Athenian Acropolis with its Mycenaean citadel, Parthenon remnents of all the other historical past and the Leaning Tower of Pisa Italy and anything that is old and supposedly holding us back from the future !
Then there is the Statue of Liberty, the White House, Congress, etc., in Washington D.C.
While I'm on a roll, lets just get rid of it all, anything that has a crack in it or is aging, including man !
December 11, 2010 at 12:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
To the optimist, the glass is half full.
To the pessimist, the glass is half empty.
To the engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
December 11, 2010 at 12:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Steve
If an old dog like myself could learn that you would think anybody would be able to....Huh?.......:-)
December 11, 2010 at 1:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
I guess I shouldn't do that but it seems when you get two or more threads working on the same topic at the same time things are always getting lost somehow in the transition.
Wha.....I just made an argument against transitions.....Oh no!.....lol :-)
December 11, 2010 at 1:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
REWBA
As I said earlier about transitions, I don't know enough about compromised concrete and corroded re-bar to argue the point other way. But I do know a shifting base line when I see one.
First it was the high energy cost...and the amount of money needed to fix it that was the big reason to close the Lowthers. Then it became transitions that were bad for our children that necessitated the need for a new building. Now it is the structural integrity of the old buildings that requires the construction of a new one. But they all end up the same place just like they always do.....more new construction.
There seems to be no end to the reasons being brought forth to justify this....reasons that leak out one at a time.as they are needed. And they may all be true. But they may not. And there are getting to be so many of them....I am finding it harder and harder to believe any of them.
December 11, 2010 at 1:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
Normal people believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Engineers believe that if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet. :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZKKrU...
December 11, 2010 at 3:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Well all I can say is , I have had a conservation, this afternoon, with a neighbor of mine, that just happens to be a teacher at Lowther ! She told me that, if what they have been told or heard is, Turning Point Learning Center will be moved into one of the Lowther buildings !
Go figure !!!!
December 11, 2010 at 5:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
This is a move that can be expected from your " Trusted " leadership !
December 11, 2010 at 5:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
I thought that both buildings had been brought ino compliance with the Americans with disabilities act ?? I am pretty sure there are ramps at both buildings as well as door modifications !!!
December 11, 2010 at 6 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
And if I am not mistaken, this new grade configuration of Kindergarten thru 5th grade being in the grade schools and 6th, 7th 8th grades in EMS and then High School is almost exactly the same grade configurations that were prevailant when I attended school ???
Only difference is when I went to school, grade school consisted of Kindergarten thru 6 th grade, Junior High school ( now called Middle School ) consisted of 7th & 8th & 9th grades and then High School consisted of Sophomore, Junior then Senior years ! 3 school transitions to get through schooling ! So the new 3 school transitions, grade school, Middle School, then High School ! This configuration/transition is supposed to be a move toward the future of education in Emporias' school system !! But it is actually a backward step to the old 3 school transition system to complete primary education in Emporia, that I went through 50+ years ago and will cost $3.5 million dollars or more to move forward, by actually moving backward, at a cost of $3.5 million dollars !!! UUUUUMH, gets kinda confusing and mind boggling doesn' t it, all this so called moving forward by moving backward, to get moving forward to the future only to step backward to move forward at a terrific cost to move backward or is it forward, oh hell, I forget which way it is we are moving !!!
Boy, I am glad my and others futures are in such capable hands !!!!! LOL
December 11, 2010 at 6:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mslater (Matt Slater) says...
You give me smoking in bars only and Lowther North, and you can have one quonset hut and Lowther South.
Any takers?
Matt
December 11, 2010 at 9:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
Twin Casinos!
December 11, 2010 at 9:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mslater (Matt Slater) says...
SOLD!
December 12, 2010 at 6:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
how you doing Matt?
Got snow there?
December 12, 2010 at 6:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mslater (Matt Slater) says...
Doing good, Steve. Just waiting on a plane now. Yeah, it's snowing pretty good right now, and we've already seen temps below zero. Gotta love Indiana!
December 12, 2010 at 10:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Well try to stay safe over there. we'll be thinking about you and praying for your safe return.
December 12, 2010 at 11:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )