What to do with Soden’s Grove?
Tom McEvoy - Director, Lee Beran Recreation Center
Wednesday, August 25, 2010
We have received a number of inquires and suggestions from people concerning the condition of Soden’s Grove baseball diamond. This a good thing because people are taking ownership in our 83-year-old, continuously used ball diamond in Emporia and are willing to offer suggestions.
The Soden’s Grove baseball diamond is one of Emporia’s longtime showpieces. When I have explained in more detail about the problems of keeping this facility in playable condition, people come away with a better understanding of the issues we face every year.
Water. This is the No. 1 issue we face.
How do we get the proper amount of water on the field, while working around teams practicing and playing games almost every day during the season? The rule of thumb for maintaining strong turf is to water the field with at least an inch of water twice a week. This allows the root system of the grass to go deeper, which makes for a stronger, more durable turf system. Adding a little water on a daily basis creates a shallow root system which doesn’t hold up to high traffic and heat. It’s impossible to practice or play a game on a field after a one-inch watering without a lot of labor and materials to dry the field. Soden’s Grove does not have an underground drainage system. Due to the lack of underground drainage, turf areas at Soden’s would be irreversibly damaged for the remainder of the season.
Someone told me during our discussions on the issues facing Soden’s Grove that there is a ratio of how many cattle can occupy a single acre of grassland before it is overgrazed. Grasses needs time to recover. This analogy holds true for Soden’s Grove; it needs time to recover.
Emporia High School practices and plays at Soden’s from March until the end of May. The American Legion program starts its season with three teams immediately following the high school season, with practices and games until the last week of July. Almost every day, the ballfield at Soden’s Grove is being used, with no chance for adequate recovery. A fall baseball program just makes things worse. Increased programs for our youth is a good thing. However, when you increase the number of users on this single field it just deteriorates faster.
This is the dichotomy the Emporia Recreation Commission faces; participation versus maintaining a field to adequately fulfill increasing usage demands. According to National Park and Recreation Standards, for the population of Emporia, there should be three major sized baseball diamonds. We currently have one — Soden’s Grove.
The cost to develop a major baseball facility is between $1.5 million and $2 million. If there were another facility, it would certainly take the load off Soden’s Grove diamond.
This is why the subject of artificial turf has been broached as a solution for Soden’s Grove until another diamond can be built or renovated. Many colleges and universities, school districts and parks and recreation departments have installed artificial turf on their athletic facilities. Why? In the long run, it’s cheaper to maintain the surface.
As a matter of fact, over the life of the surface, there is significant savings in both labor and materials which eventually pays for itself long before the surface needs to be replaced. This saves money. Second, artificial turf increases participation year round by allowing users the opportunity to play and practice without worrying about watering schedules, rainouts and major field maintenance projects.
Soden’s Grove is a Kansas icon for baseball fans. The diamond plays host every year to the high school baseball championships, Emporia High School home games, and of course, many home games and tournaments for the three American Legion teams. This facility brings thousands of people to the community each year, which, in turn, helps the local economy.
If artificial turf does get installed, Emporia would be able to host more tournaments in the future. We are now competing with other communities who have artificial turf fields, and teams and organizers are looking for facilities that don’t have the problems with rainouts.
Plus, we would be able to keep up effectively with the increasing participation demands for the near future. I think it’s the goal of every community to do everything they can to keep their kids participating in quality programs and activities.
Those are just two of the major issues we have in trying to keep Soden’s Grove playable year after year. We, as a community, need to look at long range solutions to address our needs now and in the future.
If anybody would like to discuss this issue further, please feel free to drop by the Lee Beran Recreation Center or call me at 340-6300.
nks (anonymous) says...
What is the old ESU baseball field being used for? Why cant the teams use that for a practice facility?
"We are now competing with other communities who have artificial turf fields." When you talk of communites, which communities are you describing? Maybe I am wrong, but I dont recall any other towns about Emporia's size that have turf baseball fields. Are we trying to compete with KC, Wichita, who???
August 25, 2010 at 4:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oops (anonymous) says...
Aren't there other fields for them to practice on?
August 25, 2010 at 5:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
MisterO (anonymous) says...
Well, once again as I mentioned in another thread on this topic: aren't there two baseball fields at Peter Pan Park? What about the fields at SW Santa Fe Park? Aren't there two or more fields at Sertoma Park?
If tthe Soden's Grove field requires watering twice a week, can't you close the field twice a week and send the players to one of the other fields? It's only twice a week, and it would be a HELL of a lot less expensive than AstroTurf.
Stop WASTING my tax dollars! There are other solutions (such as the one above) that will cost NOTHING.
August 25, 2010 at 6:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
truelovecharlie (anonymous) says...
How much sence does it make to spend a ton of money on something that will flood out and have to be redone?
August 25, 2010 at 7:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sail (anonymous) says...
Please dont get wants and needs confused.Its not a good time to stick your hand in the cookie jar for more tax money, we tax payers just might slap you.
August 25, 2010 at 7:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
americus1987 (anonymous) says...
I have grown up playing and coaching baseball in Emporia for my entire life and there is definitely a need for major renovations on the field's playing surface. First off, old hornet field is used everyday during the high school season for practices and games. The legion program uses it only when need be since out of all the fields in town, old hornet is the least maintained. And not only do KC and Wichita have turf surface now, Pittsburg and both Lawrence Schools have converted to a turf cause the head coachs of one of the schools told me he was tired of getting rained out. Sodens grove being so close to the river makes the chance of rainouts twice as likely since there is no drainage system and usually the ground is already too moist for the field to soak it up. The Sam Ellis Showcase Classic tournament has been called to rainouts the last 2 years which takes business out of emporia since there simply is no real way to combat the flaws that sodens groves surface has.
MisterO- Peter Pan and Sertoma Park can only serve to kids 12 and under. Sante Fe isn't even playable anymore due to a chemical leak on the railroad tracks behind the fields some years back. There also is no real irrigation system so unless you would like to stand out there all day amidst 3 teams practicing and playing every single day of the summer (since there literally is no where else to practice)it would take a little bit of tax dollars.
Soden's grove is a great atmosphere to come and play in already and complimenting it with a legitimate playing surface would complete and add to its prestige which it is already known for around kansas.
August 25, 2010 at 7:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
MisterO (anonymous) says...
"KC and Wichita have turf surface now, Pittsburg and both Lawrence Schools have converted to a turf "
This ISN'T KC or Wichita or Pittsburg or Lawrence. Our tax base doesn't compare even remotely to those very large and prosperous cities. Here in Emporia, we have a dwindling tax base and it's getting even smaller, meaning our tax dollars need to be used WISELY on essentials.
"Peter Pan and Sertoma Park can only serve to kids 12 and under. "
Says who?? Aren't ALL of the fields in Emporia public parks operated by the Rec Commission? Is Santa Fe park closed? I see people playing there all the time. What do you mean it's not playable anymore? Not even for practice? Can't the ball players use some other field for PRACTICE, once or twice a week?
Here's another solution for you. Since Soden's grove is one of "Emporia’s longtime showpieces", and since "Soden’s Grove is a Kansas icon for baseball fans. The diamond plays host every year to the high school baseball championships, Emporia High School home games, and of course, many home games and tournaments for the three American Legion teams. This facility brings thousands of people to the community each year" and since "its prestige which it is already known for around kansas" why not have all those baseball fans contribute to a fund-raising campaign to raise the money.
Leave my damned tax dollars alone! Enough already!
August 25, 2010 at 8:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
"...a legitimate playing surface..."
You mean like this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxL3Ly...
August 25, 2010 at 8:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nks (anonymous) says...
A legitimate playing surface? I need to go down and take a look. I played baseball all my life and through college. I saw many surfaces that kids these days would consider "not legitimate". You take a bad hop and take one of the forehead, you work on your hand/eye coordination and go get the ball next time before it eats your lunch again.
I agree, we are not KC or Wichita. That better than everyone else" attitude has gotten us into many other problems in this town over the years.
I just dont understand why after all of these years that the field condition has suddenly deteriorated to this point. I read the article, but havent the high school and legion teams played on this field in this manner for several decades?
August 25, 2010 at 8:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
americus1987 (anonymous) says...
MisterO- you make understanding arguments but you honestly don't know what this means or is about. You just assume this investment which would pay itself off in the end is a "waste" of taxdollars. By eliminating virtually every aspect of maintening Sodens Grove meaning NO labor, no materials, and no fuel and supplies saves tax dollars.. And kids over the age of 12 grow out of those diamonds such as peterpan and santa fe because you can't have 19 and under kids playing on fences that are only 200 hundred feet deep, that simply is not realistic. I meant in my earlier post that sertoma is no longer playable cause of the chemical leak, you can call the city and ask them. And yes we can have benefits and fundraisers but without the help of the community it would take years to put into motion. Stop being so callus and understand this would greatly benefit the youth and city of Emporia for years to come.
August 25, 2010 at 8:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
americus1987 (anonymous) says...
nks- they have attempted to make minor fixes here and there to the surface but the outfield is in the best shape out of the whole field and it is still par at best. the bullpens are practically flat. the pitchers mound and batters box can produce some crater size holes in the matter of half an inning and the infield grass is almost non existent by mid-summer. I played on it a few years back and it was bad but nothing to complain about. after seeing and working it this whole summer, it definitely could use some TLC.
August 25, 2010 at 9:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rmbcollege (anonymous) says...
What happens to the turf when it floods down there? Is it going to stay in place or is it going to be washed away and a waste of money?
August 25, 2010 at 9:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
americus1987 (anonymous) says...
http://www.fieldturf.com/baseball-tur...
http://www.fieldturf.com/artificial-t...
August 25, 2010 at 10:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Americus1987
Just how will the astro turf field pay for itself ? Especially when you consider the cost of the artificial turf and installation costs as well as maintenance costs, and there will be maintenance costs, once the field is covered with contaminated flood water and the flood water has set on the artificial turf for some time. And it will be covered with flood water, for at least a day or two or even a week, perhaps at least once a year.
And has anyone consulted someone about the problems that may be associated with installing an artificial turf where it will be exposed to river flood waters and may be under this contaminated water for several days ?
Before I would even consider spending taxpayers money on such a crazy undertaking I would certainly get all of the information and good reliable advice about where the artificial turf will be installed and what conditions it may be exposed to and what problems may arise from such exposures. But then I am just a dumb ole taxpayer, so what do I know.
I have also seen no projected costs for the artifical turf or the cost of installing it.
And as I have stated on another thread. The leaders of Emporia need to realize that Emporia cannot compete with what is done in K.C., Lawerence, Wichita, Salina, Manhattan, Topeka, etc.. Because Emporia quite simply does not have the jobs, wage or tax base or money to compete with what the " Big Boys " do, are doing or are about to do . And the sooner the leaders of Emporia accept this fact the better off Emporia and its taxpaying citizens will be.
August 25, 2010 at 10:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
americus1987
The sellers of artificial turf do put forth some good numbers in order to sell their product and the insurance only cover repairs to the turf itself. Perhaps someone should ask them if the insurance covers the damage or contamination to the turf if and when it is covered with contaminated river water and what the health hazards may be from such exposure to such contaminated river water and what the proper maintenance proceedure would be for cleaning and disinfecting the turf, after such exposure . Has everyone forgotten the proximity of Sodens Field to a river that does and will flood and cover most of Sodens Grove ?
Are there no base ball diamonds located at the Trusler Sports Complex that can be used for practice or games ?
August 25, 2010 at 10:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
I was against buying and installing an almost $2 million dollar artificial turf field at the High School. I am certainly against spending at least $350, 000 for an artificial turf field in a place that is prone to have river water flood it and be under river water for several days.
August 25, 2010 at 10:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
If they can waste...err, I mean...invest 10K on a one time ad, they can take some of that hotel tax money that add created and AstroTurf the whole town as far as I'm concerned. Just as long as we can have a puppy poop park at the welcome center by the turnpike shaded by the stone henge looking thing at the fairgrounds surrounded by zero scape landscaping with waterfalls, ponds and native wildflowers and those new fangled parking meters that accept credit cards. We really want to make a fancy impression for the real people from real towns when they stop to let their doggies doodoo on Emporia. :-)
August 25, 2010 at 11:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
b3bill (anonymous) says...
We only pay 8.8% sales tax right now, plus have a county budget that will increase to raise our property taxes, and a city budget that has a $750,000 deficit that will need to be covered later and most likely with increasing property taxes. And there is a shrinking tax base with all the loss of jobs and industry around here the past several years and property values declining....I'm sure there is more. So why would anyone complain now about spending a lot of tax money at Soden's for turf???
Really, think about it, what is more important than playing ball games? All these people here in town at the games will pay most of our taxes with all the stuff they buy...LOL!!!!
Get real....if you want the turf so bad and think there is such a need for it, then get organized and raise the money for it on your own. The Zoo and Municipal Band each have "Friends of " groups for promoting their respective causes and raising money from individuals and businesses. This money is to help support their groups above what they receive from taxes. Why can't a sports interest do the same instead of just wanting to hold their hand out for more tax money to immediately be placed in it for the latest "keeping-up-with-the-BIG-joneses" "gotta-have-it-now" boondoggle?
August 25, 2010 at 11:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
THERE'S NO NEED TO FEAR !
SUPER STEVE IS HERE !
This "problem" could be solved with a generous donation from Steve Sauder. Hasn't the Sauder family donated down there before?
Over the years the Sauder family has made many VERY sizable donations to the local community. Maybe a matching donation from the Jones fund?
Sauder- Jones Field at Soden's Grove.
It sounds good to me.
August 26, 2010 at 8:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Heres a little item from a report on another thread, " good news and bad news " , " Although the city didn’t raise taxes, the county likely will. They are talking about a 5-mill increase. "
And then there is the school board, which approved a 2.55 mil levy tax increase.
People that will be a total property tax increase of 7.55 mils ! And that is rediculous for a County and City the size of Lyon County and Emporia.
With the kind of tax burden that a possible 7.55 mil increase will undoubtedly place on individual taxpayers as well as businesses, there will undoubtedly be more business closings, more empty buildings, more job losses and more decreases in property values, which will equate to less tax revenues collected . And yet the " runaway freight train " of spend and tax continues to do nothing but gain more and more momentum instead of " slowing and stopping " .
And yet our local government leaders can' t seem to understand why they can' t entice Industries and businesses to the Emporia and Lyon County area, without giving away " The farm " , so to speak. Do our local government leaders and others believe that businesses and Industries do not investigate the tax burden of an area, before considering or negotiating to locate in an area ? Why do our local government leaders and others thing Industries and businesses want, demand or insist on such tax breaks and incentives to locate in a high tax burden area ?
There are those of us who post on this forum, who have be accused of " Destroying Emporia and Lyon County " with our negative, non progressive, non forward thinking attitude and comments.
Well I say this to those who have made such accusations ... It is you and our local government leaders and their puppet masters who are and will succeed in " Destroying Emporia and Lyon County " with your spend and tax attitude ! Just so you can try and be like, better than or keep up with other much larger cities and counties.
Stand in front of a mirror and ask yourselves this question ... Is it the people who have tried to stop or at least slow the unnecessary spending and taxing of the government leaders and others, ( because of their own selfish desires ) that are " Destroying Emporia and Lyon County ". Or is it the people who have their own selfish desires, who are convincing the local government leaders to spend and tax unnecessarily, as well as the local government leaders who are inflluenced and listen to and do as these selfish, desiring people want or demand ... who are the ones that may eventually " Destroy Emporia and Lyon County " ?
Folks this whole attitude of the few, who seem to have an overwhelming desire and need to be like, be better than or keeping up with someone or some other City or County, no matter the cost or who or what may be destroyed to try and accomplish the desires of a few ... " Must Cease " and soon .
August 26, 2010 at 9:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Steve are you kidding ? The former Sauder family, of years past, is a whole different entity than the present Sauder family .
August 26, 2010 at 9:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reality (anonymous) says...
Has anybody asked the question as to why the infield is required to be grass? My high school field did not have a grass infield, sure it wasn't quite as nice as our away games on grass infields, but on the other hand we never overused the "dirt" infield.
August 26, 2010 at 9:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
I've never been to a softball match in my life. One time at work one dude mentioned he was going to go play in one of the softball matches that people play 'round here. I said "OKaaaay?". This dude was fat and apparently out of shape. I asked another guy how someone that is so apparently not an ath-a-lete could play a sport. He told me you don't have to be in any kind of shape to play softball. I said "OKaaay?". Perhaps if the people "playing" on the field were a little more in shape they wouldn't have so much problem "playing" on a less than perfect playing surface. When I was in the Army they forbid us from playing contact sports because they wanted us to be not injured when it came time for us to catch bullets with our healthy in shape bodies. We played ultimate Frisbee instead of regular football. It is supposed to be a non-contact sport but we didn't pay much attention to the no contact rule while playing it. We would get into the game and testosterone would take over and we were slamming into each other and the ground, we were soldiers. What do you expect? Anyway, we never had a decent field to play on, sometimes we literally played in a field. My advice to the "players" is, try training for war before you play your little games, you will be amazed at what you can put up with after that.
August 26, 2010 at 10:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
methusla,
No I wasn't kidding. I think Steve Sauder has done some donating of his own besides His father and grandfather.
There are others in town who have also stepped up when there is a need. I thought I would just throw the thought out there.
Could the thought be taken and have it ROUND THIRD AND HEAD FOR HOME?
Or will it be a foul ball?
August 26, 2010 at 11:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
genxer (anonymous) says...
methusla, it would be nice if we could fill the city and county commision seats with people like you. I think all of our problems could be fixed within a year if we just had some people with common sense who aren't afraid to cut spending.
August 26, 2010 at 1:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Steve :
Your idea is/was not the "Foul Ball " !
August 26, 2010 at 2:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
REWBA (anonymous) says...
I like that helicopter at soden's grove. It's a huey!
August 26, 2010 at 4:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
MisterO (anonymous) says...
"Stop being so callus and understand this would greatly benefit the youth and city of Emporia for years to come."
Callous? Oh, please! I'm not being callous when I'm getting fleeced by the city I live in. I (we) pay more taxes than most other Kansas cities, and my city leaders are spending MY tax dollars like drunken sailors.
We already have a deficit budget. Nearly a million dollars. The tax base is dwindling because people don't have gainful employment and have to move. Now is NOT the time to continue spending on these types of projects. Now is the time to STOP SPENDING untile we get the budget under control and give a break to the taxpayer.
And DON'T try to use the "it's for the children" nonsense argument. If it's "for the children" maybe the EDA can pony up some of their funds. After all...there is a direct correlation between supervised after school activities such as sports and decreased drug and alcohol abuse among youth.
"For the childre" my.....donkey.
August 26, 2010 at 6:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
geoffreym (anonymous) says...
Hey Guys, sure enjoyed reading some of the old familiar names and on such a great subject. I just want to ask you guys one question and make one comment and then I promise to sit back and take in your comments.
My question is: do you guys in Kansas have congressman and senators. If the answer to that is yes then why not think big and make these guys do their jobs. Can everyone say after me "STIMULUS"
August 27, 2010 at 1:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rabblerouser (anonymous) says...
Maybe they should use one of the many other fields and or build a new modern facility to bring in out of town teams? The old field could be turned over to the Zoo for expansion of the existing wonderful Zoo that is very well maintained and also a showcase for Emporia!
August 27, 2010 at 6:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
geoffreym,
Stimulus, shimulus. It's still tax dollars
But you may be onto something here. Maybe the county or city can apply for another FEMA grant? Get a couple of million from the feds and move the ball diamond and minny train up to Jones Park. Place the diamond and mini train by the by-pass and people will see it and come into town. let's just get it in writing that the baseball field and train have to stay in Emporia and not relocate to Coffey County. :>)
August 27, 2010 at 7:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
" Stimulus " ! Can anyone say after me, Government = Broke !
How many people on these forums know that " Stimulus " is still going to have to be paid for by taxpayers.
Stimulus is, was and has not been a long term solution to this nations problems. " Contol of spending, Fiscal " responsibility and common sense + the end of Greed and Corruption " in government are the only long term solutions to this nations problems.
I would ask this, what is going to happen to " Stimulus " when the biggest lenders of money to the Government of the U.S., decides to no longer loan/give money to the U.S. government and instead decides to " Call In " the full amount they are owed ?
Will the U.S. Government just simply print more " Stimulus " money to pay off their loans, as they have been doing, in order to give away " Stimulus " monies in the first place ?
I really don' t think that will do any good.
I know I am sick and tired of all this " Stimulus " talk and handouts of " worthless " printed " Stimulus " money, as it is not and has not been working .
Case in point,
Latest growth data show recovery losing steam
Economic growth for second quarter downgraded to 1.6 percent pace
source, http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38878553/...
" Stimulus " is not, has not and will not work as a long term solution to this nations economic woes.
August 27, 2010 at 8:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Another big problem is the fact that " Imported goods is and has been greater than exported goods, except the exporting of businesses and jobs.
Higher imports of manufactured goods, means less American jobs and less American people working, which equates to more people receiving unemployment benefits and extended unemployment benefits ( payed for by the dwindling number of taxpayers ), which equates to more people losing their homes. And so the vicious down hill slide of America and Americans continues. And all because of Greed, Corruption, Unfettered Spending, lack of Fiscal Responsibility, Government Accountability and a Tax policy that is totally " Upside Down " !
And so who, you ask, is responsible for this mess the Country is in ?
The answer quite simply is, Us/You/Me and everyone who has let this happen and not had the fortitude to hold our Governments elected officials ( whom we elected ) feet to the fire and insisted that they rid themselves of the Greed and Coruption, Spend Less, Be more Fiscally Responsible, Enact fair and Imparcial Tax Codes/Policies, Stop Illegal Immigration, Abolish any and all unnecessary " Entitlement " programs, and above all save Social Security, Medicare, etc., etc., etc..
It is high time our Governments, Federal, State, County and Local officials ... started thinking of and acting in the best interests of " We The People " and stopped thinking of just themselves and " We The Few People " .
Fellow Americans, this country is in some serious trouble and has been heading for serious trouble for some time . And none of our elected government represtentatives seem to know how or are unwilling to try and implement a serious permanent fix for the problems of the Country. And it doesn' t matter which Political Party is in the seat of Power .
But of course, this is just my humble opinion.
August 27, 2010 at 8:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rabblerouser (anonymous) says...
Register and vote Independent!!!!!
August 28, 2010 at 6:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
What to do with Sodens?
Whatever you can with the budget you have been working with, now's not the time to ask for more!
August 30, 2010 at 12:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )