allintogether (anonymous) says...

Not going to cut spending. Not going to cut services. Just going to raise taxes or put $750,000 on the credit card?

August 11, 2010 at 12:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

kciddor (anonymous) says...

Same O same O lets not do what is necessary. Just do as the US Congress has been doing. Most of you commissioners are in business or have been and that is not the way you would stay in business by raising expense level and you know good and well somebody or something would have to go.

August 11, 2010 at 2:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

photobuggy2 (anonymous) says...

I say we cut by getting rid of the commissioners!

In down times you have to work with what you have not charge, charge, charge!

Buck up baby!

August 11, 2010 at 3:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Blue_Dog (anonymous) says...

Spending from your rainy day fund is not raising taxes or "charging to the card". They are using funds to cover the 750,000 from savings that they have built up over the last few years. I would have liked to see them cut what they proposed at last nights meeting. But do understand where they are coming from. And I believe this is reasonable.

August 11, 2010 at 3:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

Backup just a minute ! I am setting here looking straight at the copy of the 2011, City of Emporia Budget and according to what I am seeing, if they cut no expenditures whatsoever the projected total expenditures for 2011 will be $19,692,509 not $18.49 million dollars. Also the $ 17.74 million figure is lower than the 2011 Budget Total Receipts, which is projected to be $18,932,997. What the H_ll happened, between, when the 2011 Budget was printed and made public, last night and today ?

The $750,000 deficit remains the same, no matter which figures are correct, but it would be nice if someone gets their sh_t together, and makes sure everything is correct as far as numbers before making public any proposed Budget !
I think just about everyone knows that balancing a budget involves cutting expenses when needed or having to dip into the old reserves or " RAINY DAY FUND " in order to balance the budget.
I also thing that everyone should know you can not spend beyond your collected revenues or borrow to do so and expect to flourish and prosper. The only thing that kind of money management will get you is deeper in " DEBT " and in the case of the City, very unhappy taxpayers.

August 11, 2010 at 4:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...

This is absolutley unbelievable and insane. I think the water rates will go up as they rob this fund to make ends meet and the folks that are least able to pay get the shaft. MOST OF THESE COMMISSIONERS HAVE A BUSINESS AND THEY DON'T HAVE THE GUTS TO DO THE RIGHT THING.

August 11, 2010 at 4:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

Blue_Dog

Yes, you are correct in saying that spending from your rainy day fund is not raising taxes and is acceptable as long as taxes are not raised, inorder to replace the funds used from the so called, " Rainy Day Fund " . However, is not the idea of cutting spending also acceptable ? As I see it, there are places to cut spending, by spreading the cuts across the entire Budget to achieve a balanced budget .
The idea that some Budget Funds are sacred and must not be touched is not acceptable to me . Is it not all funded by taxpayer monies ?

August 11, 2010 at 4:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

allintogether (anonymous) says...

Couldn't have said it better myself Methusla. What is the balance of our rainy day fund? If the solution was as simple as taking money from the mattress, then why wasn't it mentioned in the article? The article suggests that the $750,000 deficit will be part of the 2011 budget. I would like to know how they intend to pay for it. I will be very surprised if the city was able to amass a $750,000 surplus over the last 2 years. If they were, I want the name of their investment advisor. :)

August 11, 2010 at 5:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...

9 out of 10 cities in America are cutting back on spending. Anybody for a tea party? We the people need to form a group and meet once a month. This type of a watchdog organization is long overdue. A quit buying car boycott might just do the trick. I ask the City Manager a question and his answer was, "well K.B. there is the right way and the Emporia way.'

August 11, 2010 at 5:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

spectator (anonymous) says...

Again/still the city is in financial difficulty as was made evident in the first of the recent budget articles. Again with the eliminate this, cut that. And at some point, it'll happen. Maybe even before there's another gamble on another business wanting handouts on a promise to build and locate here.

I'd agree with Mr. Longbine that most of the city employees in the trenches do try their best but they aren't stupid. They know a 3%(Good) raise is a joke , a 2%(Satisfactory) is a slim maybe and a 0% is just a supervisor's whim away. (Whim - as in The city’s saving money so find a reason to shoot him/her down.) That raise possibility will hover around the 2% . If the employee is well liked by whoever is considering the raise. You don't think it happens?

Please don't tell them about the alleged 4% raise mentioned in that previous article; envision hysterically laughing city employees e.g. firefighters, cops, office clerks or even the guy at the landfill in the little shed. Be impossible to effectively interact with any of them.

We can be fairly certain there will be no 4% EXCELLENT (aka PERFECT - CAN WALK ON WATER AT ANY POINT IN TIME) employee review related raises other than for department heads and of course the cm so we're money ahead already.

On the other hand, if the employees in the trenches, and don't kid yourself; the average city employee knows things about how this city operates that would make you see red, were able to evaluate the higher ups for raises or even reductions in salaries, we'd probably find funds at hand.

One of the budget articles mentioned using the DARE officer's salary for something else. Wasn't the DARE position eliminated 5-6 years ago? Where's that money been going all this time?

August 11, 2010 at 5:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

knute (anonymous) says...

Lots of good comments on this disaster but I disagree on one thing. There are some departments, Methusla, I'd prefer to stay fully funded and staffed fire and police for example. It might not be a big problem if the inflated water bill arrived a day or two later. Adjustments like that are ok but across the board scares me. Spectator - wow. You scare me too but you do have one point. What DID happen to that DARE officer money all those years? Reddog there's also the Chicago area way but mr z didn't say anything about that.

August 11, 2010 at 6:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

knute

I told the City Commission the same thing, basically leave fire and police alone and fully funded. However the 5% to 20% cuts I mentioned to them could just as easily be spread across the whole other Funding Spectrum, especially, entitlements, appropriations, grants or whatever you want to call taxpayer funded, handouts. And the Golf Course, as far as I am concerned that is a " Lame Duck ", " Dead Turkey " or " Money Pit ", whatever you want to call it.

August 11, 2010 at 7:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

allintogether

I believe that Matt Zimmerman stated the the " Reserve/Rainy Day " fund was at or aroune $ 2 million dollars. But I may have heard wrong !

August 11, 2010 at 7:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

Well, knute, making tough decisions about cutting expenditures is a " Scary" business, but at times the " Scary " decisions become the necessary decisions that need to be made.

August 11, 2010 at 7:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sail (anonymous) says...

WTF,not going to give up merrit pay.Keep kicking this can down the road and boys you are going to stub your toe.

August 11, 2010 at 8:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

MAYBE This is what happens when you have a busiiness owner run for office. They know what has to be done in order to work within their budget, But they also know if they do that their business could suffer. So come on you old retired farts who have nothing to lose by presenting a real budget, RUN FOR OFFICE ! I would love to see a commission of 5 retired people 65 years or older in charge of the budget. The older you get the less you worry about others opinions, as it should be.

I hope the next city commission race is fielded by 5 retired business owners who don't care about how their votes or actions affects their business. And I am talking retired business owners, not someone like Ms. Johnson who just doesn't have a clue.

Are we better off than we were 10 years ago? In my opinion we are not, BUT THEN WE KNOW WHAT THEY SAY ABOUT OPINIONS.

August 11, 2010 at 8:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandit1 (anonymous) says...

This is all very disturbing. 750K deficit and you still have merit riases? I work hard too but dont get raise. Maybe we could give a rocket science award to the city worker who can fix the 2 yr old pothole in front of Birch.

August 11, 2010 at 9:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

doubt_it (anonymous) says...

I would like to know why the city employees can get a merit raise during this time of economic difficulty when other businesses are not giving out any merit raises at all. It's their way to cut down on expenses. I believe most honest, hardworking employees deserve a merit raise, but sometimes a business just can't afford that merit raise, no matter what. What are the city employees more important and deserving than other employees at other businesses around town? I'd love to see them live on my wages for one year. Talk about LOL!!! Sure dont' see the city commissioners doing without. When will they ever listen to the citizens instead of their greediness? I know I'm sure thinking about moving out of town. Texas is looking really nice since they don't have state tax or property tax.

August 11, 2010 at 9:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

booker5m (anonymous) says...

Merit raises will stay so the Zim can get another outstanding raise

August 11, 2010 at 9:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

REWBA (anonymous) says...

This city has some really smart people. But, they lack imagination. If the Emporia city commission were to do something silly, say...pass an ordinance legalizing gay marriage in Emporia or something really controversial like that, thousands of gay people will come from across the U.S. and pay Emporia for gay marriage licenses. At the same time, thousands of gay marriage protesters would come to Emporia to protest gay marriage. Hundreds of national press reporters would come to Emporia to cover the story. In about two days the city would have collected more than 750K and then the city could have a vote to outlaw gay marriage and all the pro gay marriage proponents and all the anti gay marriage proponents would descend on our town all over again spilling their cash all over our streets. Once that little game plays out, we could do something else that is really controversial to catch the national spotlight and get a whole new group of supporters and opponents to come waste their money on our hotel tax. JMO...BUT THEN WE KNOW WHAT THEY SAY ABOUT OPINIONS. lol

August 11, 2010 at 9:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

Well, Steve, I believe it was mentioned at the meeting the county is about to or has approved a 1mil property tax mill levy increase. So after all of the Budgets have been approved this old retired, handicapped " fart " won' t be able to afford a " pot to P_ss in " let alone pay for a Comission seat filing fee to run for a Commission seat. Not only that, my Budget philosophy " Scares some people" .

August 11, 2010 at 10:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

And what I don' t understand is the fact, that the Commission said they had until the 26th of August, to approve the Budget and then they are saying they will vote for approval on August 18th, with a public meeting to preceed the approval vote !!!!!!! What the H_ll is up with that ????

I Guess they, the Commission, doesn't want anymore Budget cut suggestions. So much for public input !!!!!!!

August 11, 2010 at 10:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

And what I don' t understand is the fact, that the Commission said they had until the 26th of August, to approve the Budget and then they are saying they will vote for approval on August 18th, with a public meeting to preceed the approval vote !!!!!!! What the H_ll is up with that ????

I Guess they, the Commission, don't want anymore Budget cut suggestions. So much for public input !!!!!!!

I guess that is why, when I called the Zimm's office this morning and asked if there was going to be another public Budget meeting, before August 26th, I was told, " We don' t know, yet ! "

August 11, 2010 at 10:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

oops (anonymous) says...

spectator,
They had the employees sign an Ethics policy that kinda keeps employees from speaking out against the city. You have a few drinks with some employees and the words come out. Now it could have been they were getting a little buzz but it sounded to me like morale was pretty low amongst alot of the city employees. They made it sound like the merit raise system was already messed up as well.

August 11, 2010 at 11:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

knute (anonymous) says...

Oops, I'd guess steve commons who received one time raises of $10K and a few years later $5K pretty well started morale down the tubes. And the new guy's not helped it any. The new guy also received a $5K raise. What galls me is that neither one, with his $160K salary, not including perks, manned up and said I can't accept this if the other employees get nothing. The cm makes over $160K per year. What's $500 a month to him? Don't worry about merit raises, doubt_it , because merit raises will be darn few. Example. I was told that one area on the employee evaluation form addresses attire with Satisfactory being USUALLY acceptable and Excellent being ALWAYS in proper attire. A former employee told me that upon being interviewed for a job the attire was decreed by the department head to be a certain kind of shirt and dress pants. The person always wore what was designated -by the department head during the interview- but was rated only Satisfactory later on. Clearly in the definition of Excellent but downgraded to Satisfactory. I guess this is what thespectator said about a supervisor's whim. I too heard about the ethics thing about a year ago as a veiled threat of immediate dismissal if an employee said anything that might be construed detrimental about the cm, not just the city. I also heard some people refused to sign it and the city{cm} backed off probably concerned about this policy as well as the chance other shady matters might come out in court when an employee was fired for supposedly being in violation of it. oops if you get another drink or two chance, you may learn that the supervisors DO THEIR OWN EVALUATIONS. Also ask about the meetings mr $160K per year had with groups of city employees and 'his gestures, demeanor and tone' when he numerous times in an hour told them to "perform or you're outta here." Sorry Methusula, I still think it's a bad idea to cut police & fire. Better to cut cm and department heads. I still have my pot and you're sure welcome to use it anytime. If I'm using it when you get there and if my leg gets wet and you tell me it's raining, then I'll know you got that commission seat.

August 12, 2010 at 3:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

THAT'S FUNNY RIGHT THERE NOW.

August 12, 2010 at 5:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

knute

I do agree with you on not cutting police and fire . What I meant by cutting funding across the board, was everything except police and fire . I also know that if anyone ever suggested cutting Administrative pay, CM, dept. heads, etc. you would not be the only one getting a wet leg as well as other parts, wet also . And it wouldn' t be because the ones do the " wetting " didn' t have a " POT ".

Oh, and thanks for the " Pot " offer and you won' t have to worry about me making your leg wet, because I won' t be a Commissioner or have a " POT ", because if the spend, without cutting spending, continues, I will not be able to afford to buy a " Pot " or a run for a City Commission seat. As far as a " Pot " goes, I will just dig a hole in the back yard and, well you know, kinda revert back to the the early man days .Besides wouldn' t be the first time I' ve had to use a hole in the ground.

August 12, 2010 at 9:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

Well now, let me see, the school board approves a 2.55 mil levy increase, the County has or is thinking about approving a 1 mil levy increase and the City Commission and the County Commission vow to do everything possible to keep the mill levy flat with no increases. And plan on accomplishing this without decreasing expenditures/spending ?????????? Are they expecting a " Miracle " or something ?

August 12, 2010 at 9:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

allintogether (anonymous) says...

If what Zim said about $2 million being in the reserve fund then I am very surprised. I hope it is accurate and I hope the reserve fund is mentioned in the full article in Thursday's Gazette.

August 12, 2010 at 10:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

tbluma (anonymous) says...

Meth
There was roughly $1.1M just for the golf course, Hammond Park and Peter Pan Park in the first budget. Is all of that still there?
If so that is where they should cut the budget. None of it is necessary, it's just on somebody's want to list.

August 12, 2010 at 10:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

tbluma

The only mention I can see about anything concerning Peter Pan Park or the Golf course listed on the 2011 Budget is listed under Multi Year Fund as follows,
Repair Parking Lot at Golf Shop-$85,000
Enlarge # 9 Pond $180,000
Peter Pan Park Rest Room
( lake/arbor ) total cost $75,00 - $25,000

The big ticket item for Peter Pan Park, JAC, Hammond Park, Quiet Zone Improvements, are listed under CIP, but not funded. And all of these listed under cCIP, but not funded .... total $2,193,316 .

Does this answer your question .

And I agree that none of these are really necessary, especially the $ 1,050,000 price tag for Quiet Zone improvements or the $400,000 JAC wading pool, $250,000 Hammond Park Tennis court replacement and there are other items that I feel are unnecessary as well.

I will try and scan a copy of the Multi Year fund page and the Cip page and paste them here for you to see.

August 12, 2010 at 1:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

tbluma

However, I believe that you and I both know that getting City leaders to cut spending is harder than " Pulling the Teeth of a Rank Mule " .

August 12, 2010 at 1:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

allintogether,

I am not entirely sure that the City Manager said the reserve fund was $2 million dollars, as I have lost 40% of my hearing, but it sounded as though he said $ 2 million dollars. I could be totally wrong.

August 12, 2010 at 2:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

booker5m (anonymous) says...

40% not bad Meth try 80% and ask them to please repete what was said and they act like you are an idiot

August 12, 2010 at 2:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

allintogether (anonymous) says...

Meth,

I am in no way holding you accountable for any amounts. My hearing is pretty good and I have never heard of a city, rainy day, budget deficit fund. I will read the article tonight and post again after.

August 12, 2010 at 2:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

booker5m

I found out I had a hearing loss of 40% almost 30 years ago. The loss may even be more now, as I do have to have people repeat stuff more often now.
Bummer.

August 12, 2010 at 2:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

allintogether (anonymous) says...

Just read the full article. Staff estimates there is $2.5 million in reserve. I hope the estimate is right.

August 12, 2010 at 6:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sail (anonymous) says...

If we are heading for a double dip in the econ, should not we wait to tap the rain fund?Its to be used as a last resort ie a commander committing his reserve troops in battle to soon could be a bad thing.

August 13, 2010 at 6:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

It will be interesting to see what the state reports on this months sales tax collections. Will there be a bump up due to back to school shopping? Will it be down like last month 26%? Probably not but I believe it will be down over last years figures.

You know how we in the midwest seem to be affected by trends a few years later than both coasts. I think we are just now seeing the "real" start of the economic downturn.

And after the census figures come out next year, the city, county, school board and state will have no choice but to cut their budgets. Sure hope I am wrong !

August 13, 2010 at 7:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

Did I read in the proposed budget a projected increase of over 300 thousand dollars in water sales revenue for next year?

Those new water meters must be really good.

August 13, 2010 at 7:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

Well, I guess once hills get's rolling they will be buying some water. Maybe help make up for the tyson loss.

August 13, 2010 at 7:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

WAY TO MUCH COFFEE THIS MORNING !

LOCAL BUDGET MILL LEVY INCREASES;

Emporia School board; 2.55

Emporia rec commission 2.25

County general 1.5

County road & bridge 5.5

City; nothing yet

How's that 1/2 cent sales tax working for ya?

August 13, 2010 at 7:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

justaflushaway (anonymous) says...

Would someone who plays golf PLEASE tell me why in the hell would the golf course need to enlarge a damn pond,, you all are playing golf, not fishing or watering horses or cattle.

And to spend 180,000 dollars to enlarge it?? that would pay to build a NEW pond or in this case a small lake. PLEASE will someone explain this crap, thanks

August 13, 2010 at 9:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sail (anonymous) says...

Hhhhh wonder how many pizzas' a month 10 plus mills works out to be......People we need to make a point and let these spenders know what we think when we see them out and about in Emporia. Remember we get all the gov. we deserve.

August 13, 2010 at 9:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

Steve, old friend, I told the Commissioners at the meeting Tuesday evening that I and others were predicting a mill levy increase of 10 or more, well why looked at me like I was some sort of loon. According to the figures you listed and I have seen, which match yours, the total mill levy increase of those on the list total 11.8 mills increase.

Yes for all practical purposes the City Commission is not raising the City mill levy, so to speak, but can do nothing to stop a mill levy increase either. It looks as though it will be raised just the same. And if it is raised the amount I have calculated, it will make Emporia and Lyon County one of the highest mill levy paying areas, for its size, in the Kansas. And people wonder why people and businesses are leaving Emporia in record numbers and why some businesses or Industries don' t even want to consider locating here, without massive tax breaks and incentives.
I know there are those who say, Simmons has purchased Menu and will make up the difference. Well I ask this, how long will it be, as a new business owner of Menu, will they get property tax incentives, etc., and if so how long will it be before they actually pay any full property tax mill levy assesment ? In the interem the tax burden will fall upon those taxpayers who are left in Emporia to pay the taxes.

And there are those who say, " But we have the sales tax extension that will make up the difference and travelers and tourists will help us pay for not reducing spending ! " I say B.S., more and more people are " NOT Shopping and Stopping to either Shop Emporia First or even Shop Emporia as travelers or Tourists " . I have heard from very reliable sources, that travelers and tourists call ahead to various retail business in Emporia, and inquire as to what the amount of sales tax is in Emporia, and when these travelers and tourists here the term 8.8%, they say, " We will go on to a town or City with a lesser tax rate or more retail business choices. " So you see, even the sales tax turns local and traveling tourists off to shopping and staying in Emporia .
So, if your wondering why sales tax revenues are down, property tax revenues are down and people are leaving and not shopping Emporia and thinking real hard about locating in Emporia ...... there are 2 very distinct possibilities, 1. loss or lack of jobs and 2. A high amount of " TAX BURDEN " .

August 13, 2010 at 9:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )