Posted by b3bill (anonymous) on September 4, 2009 at 11:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Quoting from the "Shop Emporia First" jingle on KVOE, ".....friends and neighbors you can **trust**, doing **all** that they can do, to help you, Shop Emporia First!"

I feel that Ms. Jean Woods, owner of Madelynn's, has stolen from the community by not paying her taxes. Lots of other businesses and individuals would liked to have ditched paying their taxes starting in 2005 and then only pay some of them later. Evidently the Ks Dept of Revenue didn't much care for her lax methods of paying her taxes due.

It was poor judgment and poor business practice for Ms. Woods to put other spending ahead of covering her taxes due, on time and in full. Ms. Woods must have thought she could get by without paying her taxes on time and in full.

For the October 3 auction specifically, I'd tell anyone to NOT shop Emporia first. Why help bail Ms. Woods out by purchasing items at the auction?? She has already sold and been paid by her customers for the items since 2005 that were taxable, and she didn't pay the taxes due. Let the stuff go unsold at the auction and make her use her own personal assets from the money she kept from the items sold and that she didn't pay taxes on.

Posted by food4thought (anonymous) on September 4, 2009 at 1:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Well put I agree totally!!!!!!

Posted by sociallyconsious (anonymous) on September 4, 2009 at 2:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Business owners make decisions every day. Some of them are good ones and some are bad ones. No one but Jean knows the "How or Why this happened". People speculating on the reason serves no purpose.

I would encourage anyone who has a need for quality clothing, prom dresses or even a wedding dress attend the auction. In this economy if you are able to get a good deal on something you need, you should. I plan on attending if for no reason than to continue supporting my community.

We all make mistakes, and some are bigger than others, and unfortunately more public than others. Unless you are perfect, you should not be so condeming.

Posted by justaflushaway (anonymous) on September 4, 2009 at 2:20 p.m.

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Posted by threecs (anonymous) on September 4, 2009 at 2:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

But the issue is that the business has been featured again and again as a model for all area businesses to strive for. I personally know of at least five businesses who deserved support and recognition during the years this one was overshadowing everyone else; the sweetheart of Emporia. Most of those entrepreneurs have written off Emporia, as this story is not new to them. They were aware of the inconsistencies in the story years ago and decided this was not the place for them to grow a business.

Posted by norwegian (anonymous) on September 4, 2009 at 2:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Dear Socially conscious, are you kidding me? Don't be so condemning? This woman stole from her customers by not paying sales tax and her employees by not paying withholding tax.

Maybe if you had seen the tears in the eyes of the brides who waited 4 hours in line to be told the dress of their dreams wasn't in the store and their deposit would not be refunded, you would be prepared to condemn her as well.

This wasn't a one time mistake. This was a mistake repeated over and over again by someone maliciously deceiving the members of the community you support.

I agree with b3bill, no bargain is worth helping this woman escape her obligations the easy way. Don't attend this auction. Let Ms. Woods do the right thing finally and make some personal sacrifices to rectify the situation.

Posted by spensanity (anonymous) on September 4, 2009 at 2:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

How many people did Madelynn's employ?

Posted by Summer_Breeze (anonymous) on September 4, 2009 at 2:52 p.m.

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Posted by waltzingalong (anonymous) on September 4, 2009 at 3:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Does anyone know how many people worked at Madelynns?
socaillyconsious - you ARE joking, right?

Posted by Emporia_Spartan (anonymous) on September 4, 2009 at 3:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I agree that this fiasco is despicable and unforgivable. During last year's campaigns, several candidates called for the KDOR to try to collect the millions of dollars owed to the state by people such as Jean Woods. I recall the Gazette story of a year ago when the discussion of the KDOR website listing of delinquent accounts included Madelynn's and other Emporia businesses. Woods denied any problem and said it was a misunderstanding. I guess her perception was very different from that of the KDOR. Seizure of the business is the last resort, so Ms. Woods was fully aware of the problems. I assume that her son Casey bailed out and took the Main Street job because he saw the handwriting on the wall and wanted to avoid any involvement when the state took action.

I haven't heard what the legal ramifications are, but would guess that felony charges will be filed at some point. A business person can't collect state sales tax for years and then keep it for herself! That's theft or fraud or embezzlement--or all three. I hope the media will follow this story to its conclusion because it is an embarrassment to Emporia. My heart goes out to those people who have had their upcoming weddings tainted by this situation. Hopefully, reputable business owners can help fill the void and relieve some of the pain and heartbreak.

Posted by esugrad_03 (anonymous) on September 4, 2009 at 3:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Whenever a crime is committed, in the Emporia area, people are always able to comment about it right away. Why has it taken until today (Friday) for people to be able to comment about what has happened at Madelynn's?

I feel sorry for the brides who will not get refunded, get their dream dresses, get their tuxes, etc. This is horrible.

When my husband and I were planning our wedding, we went to Madelynn's to look at tuxes. It was a mess. First, the workers were mad that I already bought a dress, and it wasn't from them. Then, they started putting down our wedding party. We had a small wedding party. They thought it was stupid and told us that. They also criticized the suits our fathers wanted to wear. Needless to say, they did not get our business. At the time we were married, Outfitters was still open. As soon as we walked out of Madelynn's, we walked up to Outfitters. The workers at Outfitters were wonderful. Guess who got our business... A letter was written to the Chamber about how rude Madelynn's was and how nice Outfitters was.

After the way we were treated, my husband and I vowed to never step foot in Madelynn's again. We never did. This all went down before she started to not pay her taxes.

Our hearts go out to the devistated brides. Maybe after going through this public humiliation, the owner will become a nicer person.

Posted by food4thought (anonymous) on September 4, 2009 at 3:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

To SocialConcious are you concious???

I feel sorry for all the ones who are being told they have to wait on a refund from Ms Wood. I had to laugh at that quote in the paper because if you won't pay sales tax when you have the money in your hand you sure are not going to fork it over now, these poor people will never see a dime of their money again and Ms Wood is learning no lessons here. Planning for the happiest day of your life and using your hard earned money to pay for these things and someone total rips you off all the time knowing is beyond terrible. I would imagine in the old days she would have been marched uptown and hung while people cheered. Do not feel sorry for her she had plenty of warning and it was her choice to stand by and continue to take peoples money knowing she was not following the law. Do not attend this auction and do not darken the door of any other business she opens!!!! I hope she is ashamed and embarassed but a person like her probably has no true feelings.. I hear this has happened to her businesses before anyone know that for a fact????

Posted by hornet0004 (anonymous) on September 4, 2009 at 4:16 p.m.

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Posted by thetruthandnothingless (anonymous) on September 4, 2009 at 4:22 p.m.

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Posted by wouldntuliketoknow (anonymous) on September 4, 2009 at 4:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Since this is public knowledge, KDOR's website also lists, Emporia's "Dairy Delights" owned by Daryl Bolinger, as a business which is not paying their taxes.

Posted by bob (anonymous) on September 4, 2009 at 4:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hmmm...Madelynns--Emporia Main Street Now what was the connection?? Oh yeah, I remember now...

Posted by tosie (anonymous) on September 4, 2009 at 4:50 p.m.

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Posted by history_nerd (anonymous) on September 4, 2009 at 7:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

According to KVOE, who actually got an interview with Jean Woods, she was on a payment plan with KDOR.

Posted by Blue_Dog (anonymous) on September 4, 2009 at 7:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

History Nerd,
Why should you need a payment plan. Sales tax is simply collected and passed on to the state. Further I am shocked that you can go more than 90 days without sending in sales tax. And yes I do have a business that collects and forwards sale tax.

Posted by create (anonymous) on September 4, 2009 at 8:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

A payment plan? Was this corroborated with the state? Even if there were a payment plan, I doubt very seriously if the state would swoop down on a business and seize it if payments were up to date. Wow, denial is not only a river in Egypt.

Posted by YY4U (anonymous) on September 4, 2009 at 8:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Where in Egypt did you find the denial river?

Posted by YY4U (anonymous) on September 4, 2009 at 8:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Just joking, you don't have to answer that. My wife just hit me :-)

Posted by likavega (anonymous) on September 4, 2009 at 9:28 p.m.

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Posted by likavega (anonymous) on September 4, 2009 at 9:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

God bless all the brides and Weddings that were scewed up because of Mrs Woods. Weddings are a pain in the ass to plan. I will laugh my head off if no one bids at the auction.
I will give two cents for whole store.

Posted by history_nerd (anonymous) on September 4, 2009 at 9:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm not pretending to know the ins and outs of Woods's dealings with the state. Just throwing that information out there because the Gazette hasn't been able to report both sides of the story yet.

Posted by disgusted1 (anonymous) on September 4, 2009 at 11:47 p.m.

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Posted by neighbor (anonymous) on September 5, 2009 at 12:17 a.m.

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Posted by paulkersey (anonymous) on September 5, 2009 at 10:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Wow, just saw this... according to the KDOR website, Wheatstate Pizza owes $220,042.61 in sales tax!

https://www.kdor.org/warrants/listing.as... (put Lyon in the search block)

Pretty interesting list..

Posted by trashman (anonymous) on September 5, 2009 at 3:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yes but you don't know if the Store here in Emporia owes a cent, because all Wheat State Pizza locations are included in the entire State.

Posted by trashman (anonymous) on September 5, 2009 at 4:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What I thought was really neat Wednesday morning, here we have all these brides to be, their mothers and other relatives and friends standing in line for hours to get into the store to see if they could get their merchandise, and going up and down the street was Strawder Security handing out parking tickets--just what they needed to add to the stress of already stressful situation!!!

Posted by Steve_Corbin (anonymous) on September 5, 2009 at 4:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

trashman;

Don't know if you are correct in your thinking about the above mentioned pizza place.

As different counties and cities have different tax rates I think each location is required to have a seperate tax i.d. number, and report each locations sales seperately.
But I could be wrong, another question for Bobbi Mylnar maybe?

Posted by Steve_Corbin (anonymous) on September 5, 2009 at 4:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Blue_Dog,
As a business owner my sales taxes are paid quarterly.

Most of my sales are subject to liquor excise tax, (which IS paid monthly, and the state requires a bond be posted in case it is not).

However the occasional Coke, bag of chips, or nuts and juke box, pooltable and dart machine revenue does not add up to enough to file monthly returns. A lot less work and expense for me and the state by filing quarterly.

Posted by trashman (anonymous) on September 5, 2009 at 4:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Well I happened to be on that site a couple of weeks ago and it listed all stores with the same tax amount owed, and then it had the owner or manager with the same amount all with the same tax or court case number. Logical assumption is same ownership one case all locations lumped together.

Posted by Steve_Corbin (anonymous) on September 5, 2009 at 4:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Before long some Brainiac will come up with the idea of linking all cash-registers to the state via internet so sales can be reported daily and the state sweeps the money from your bank account.

It is the way they do it for the Lottery now. The only trouble is with merchandise you will see a lot of cigar boxes next to the registers.

Posted by dirtydeeds (anonymous) on September 5, 2009 at 7:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I find it really interesting that so many threads have been deleted by the site staff. What happened to Free Speech? I had read many of the posts before they were deleted and saw nothing but truth in them. No names other than the ones already mentioned in the articles. i.e. Jean Woods. No foul language, no defaming of anyone. (She had already done that to herself) So, WHY were they deleted? Its just the common citizen expressing what they feel. Last I knew this was a FREE country, would anyone from the Gazette like to explain why so many are deleted??? I suppose this one will be deleted too, and if it is, I'd like an explanation as to WHY. Just another of our rights being taken away? Or are they trying to protect someone that is NOT so innocent? If someone is trying to save Jean Woods' face, she should have thought of that when she STOPPED paying sales tax. You do realize that the sales tax revenue is divided among the city, county and state. She STOLE from the taxpayers of Lyon Co. when she did NOT pay the sales tax. So, why is the Gazette trying to protect her?

Posted by goodoleboy (anonymous) on September 5, 2009 at 7:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

220k owed by Wheat State? Another pizza place could be shutting down soon, even divided among all the stores that is a pretty large deficit. Ryan Murphy(native emporian) was the owned last I knew, why is people around here have so much trouble paying their taxes?

Posted by Steve_Corbin (anonymous) on September 5, 2009 at 7:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

dirty,

Gwen explained herself on a different thread.

Hey in any forum, when it comes to free speech, it all depends on who has the delete button on their keyboard.

It would be like your right to come into my business and express your right to freedom of speech. But if that speech caused a problem for me or my customers I would be within my rights to "delete" you from the premises.

I guess it is a privilage to post on here, not a right.
We may not all agree with that, but we don't own or manage the Gazette.
We'll have to play by their rules and the rules can always change. That's Life!

That said ,you DO have a valid complaint.

Posted by dirtydeeds (anonymous) on September 5, 2009 at 8:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Steve, You are right about it all depends on who has the delete button on their keyboard. And If I came into your business and caused a problem for YOU or your customers you would TELL me why i'm being "deleted". Correct? I think in this situation, the person that's caused the commotion created that problem herself, and therefore put herself up for the comments that are being made. If it were you or I in this same position, and not exactly a favorite of the Gazette, or even an unknown to the Gazette, they wouldn't be so free with the delete button. She's still human, she still made the mistake... she should have to suffer the consquenses. She is NOT above the law. Being granted the Business person of the year did NOT give her that right to avoid paying her taxes.
So, Steve, I guess you are right. It is a priviledge to post here. My mistake. And its their RIGHT to delete it for whatever reason.
I guess I don't read the Gazette thorough enough to know about Gwen's explanation.

Posted by sociallyconsious (anonymous) on September 5, 2009 at 9:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I find it interesting that in the last few threads people are saying that "I had read many of the posts before they were deleted and saw nothing but truth in them. No names other than the ones already mentioned in the articles. i.e. Jean Woods. No foul language, no defaming of anyone. " However I remember several comments which had derogatory comments made about Jean's family members and Main Street.

No where does it say that any of her family was responsible for the actions which brought on this mess. But the posters on this site seem ready to blame anyone connected. Are you responsible for the actions of your family or your employer? Her family may have been employed in the business, but it does not mean they controlled the check writing or paying of the taxes. Yet people on this forum are ready to deframe them. Jean created this mess, they didn't.

Posted by YY4U (anonymous) on September 5, 2009 at 10:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ive said it time and time again. The moral of the story's clear, instead of whiskey stick to beer. No, wait, it's hire a good accountant :-)

Posted by b3bill (anonymous) on September 5, 2009 at 10:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It will be interesting to follow this story and see what is covered in The Gazette. From what I understand, The Gazette has set itself as a newspaper primarily reporting local news, rather than world news as in times past.

The situation with Madelynn's (Ms. Jean Woods, owner) is worse than a double-edge sword for The Gazette. Undoubtedly Ms. Woods was one of Emporia's social/business peers with The Gazette upper management, so it hurts to report bad things about a friend and fellow local business owner. But The Gazette can't ignore the tax crime that the Ks Dept of Revenue is accusing Ms. Woods of, something that happened at a business just one block from The Gazette. Perhaps one way to help soothe the situation, from The Gazette's perspective, is to limit comments regarding Ms Woods. Such was probably the case with the first two articles in The Gazette, neither of which had a comment section. I emailed the author about that, and of course there was no reply to my email nor was a comment section added, such as I expected.

However, coverage of the nonpayment of taxes by Ms. Jean Woods at Madelynn's is not limited to The Gazette. KVOE and WIBW TV 13 have each had a good amount of coverage, and perhaps other media have as well. So, it will seem like The Gazette will have no choice but to continue coverage, or else it appears they are not aware of ongoing developments in a top local news story just one block from their office, or else they're trying to silence the situation at Madelynn's as much as they can.

Lots of people will be listening to other media coverage about the Madelynn's (Ms Jean Woods) story and watching very closely to see what The Gazette reports. I hope The Gazette takes the high road and reports the whole story as it develops.

Posted by glarson (Gwen Larson) on September 5, 2009 at 10:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

dirtydeeds:

Here's one explanation why a number of your comments were taken down -- from the beginning, we have asked posters to stick to the topic at hand.

When you choose to make a comment repeatedly on any thread you can find and that comment doesn't pertain to the thread, it will be taken down.

Gwen Larson

Posted by Harlu (anonymous) on September 6, 2009 at 7:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Sociallyconsious.....Thank you.

Posted by dragyours2001 (anonymous) on September 6, 2009 at 7:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Everyone here knows what’s going on. Think about it for a minute. Madelynns closes after......... the smoking ban is passed! Everyone saw the writings on the walls! The brides could not smoke while searching for the perfect dress, so chaos ensued. That’s why the water got shut off last month when she didn’t pay the bill on time, and why people could not cash their paychecks at her bank or many other places. The smoking ban is the devil!

Posted by Steve_Corbin (anonymous) on September 6, 2009 at 10:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

heh Gwen,

How about checking with the dept. of rev. on this story?

What was the original tax not paid?
How much of the total is penalty and interest?
It may open a few eyes and make people think.

Posted by trashman (anonymous) on September 6, 2009 at 12:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yes Gwen , How about it and while you are at it. Is there penalty and interest applied to withholding taxes since there is also about $53,000 owed there according to tax court filings.

Posted by trashman (anonymous) on September 6, 2009 at 12:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

This makes the total taxes owed in the area of $145,000 to $155,000 not the $97,000 or so previously reported.

Posted by dirtydeeds (anonymous) on September 6, 2009 at 12:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Gwen, Thank you. However, I wasn't referring to MY posts on other threads. I was referring to the one's deleted HERE on this thread, and they were not mine.

sociallyconsious..... It is a well known fact that Casey Woods was involved in the running of Madelynn's, for quite some time even. Most times, when there were questions about the business, or items in the store, you were referred to Casey, Jean's son. Ironically, he took a position with the Main Street contingency late spring, early summer. Ironic, I think not.... just my opinion though. I do agree though, we are NOT responsible for our family's actions, unless you are in it together, THEN... someone has to be responsible.

Steve, Great question regarding the checking with the KDOR on this. I'm sure when final figures are brought into play, everyone will be amazed!

Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on September 6, 2009 at 1:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Gwen

I think some of those posting here bring up some good points. I'm not referring to the forums. They are a privilege and not something guaranteed as some seem to think. The Gazette is under no obligation to print every opinion and has every right to set the rules of engagement.

But I do wish the Gazette would dig more deeply on some of these subjects. It seems to me that the investigative journalism here in Emporia is quite thin. I think it would do well for the Gazette to do some digging here. This is an important story. Madelynn's was a respected local business (I have a lot of respect for those who owned and operated it), but something went wrong somewhere and it is going to have an impact on the whole city, particularly downtown. Madelynn's was one of those local businesses that drew people from all over Kansas, like Nell Hill's does for Atchison. It was a respected business and the ripple effect of this failure could spread out to the reputation of Emporia as a city. This is a story crying out for what its root cause or causes was. Was it all a matter of people deliberately flaunting the law? Was it a matter of some in Topeka being overzealous in their jobs because they were feeeling pressure to increase state revenues during a downturn? Was the story somewhere in between?

This and other local stories are important. For example, the sales tax increase based on the promise of a lower mil levy. Is there more to this than just an oversight? How/why didn't county leadership including the county attorney know nothing about Kansas statutes regarding sales taxes?

William Randolph Hearst used to send journalists out into the streets digging for the "dirt." His newspaper ruffled feathers and did occasionally cross the line into "yellow journalism," but they also uncovered a lot of real dirt, like Tamany Hall, food safety problems, working conditions for immigrants, etc.

One of the reasons some are wondering now is the lingering thought that the Gazette may not be digging because its relationship with certain city players is too cozy. That may not be a fair assesment, but I think a good faith effort at digging into some of these problems would help allay those concerns.

Posted by Steve_Corbin (anonymous) on September 7, 2009 at 8:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Back to the main point of this article----

If/when the auction is held, what better way to grab a good bargain and help collect those taxes that were due. If the auction nets more than the taxes due then I assume the excess would go to the owner who could then use that money to refund any deposits, pay suppliers, etc.
It doesn't look like the business will re-open, at least not at the current location. That will be the next step, trying to find a use for such a huge building. Retail would be ideal, but the economy is bad right now. Maybe Gary Burgess could open it up as a downtown Bruff's location?
With the Winter furniture store closed, the two biggest storefronts downtown need to be utilized, but what would work?

ANY IDEAS?

Posted by create (anonymous) on September 7, 2009 at 9:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"the excess would go to the owner who could then use that money to refund any deposits, pay suppliers, etc."

If the owner couldn't manage money well-enough to pay sales and payroll taxes and utilities to begin with, perhaps any overage from the auction should be placed in an account managed by a bank instead. In that way, the debts are sure to be paid. Auctions bring ten cents on the dollar, however. There may not be any leftovers.

As far as utilizing that store is concerned, all I can see is a huge building with what must be equally huge gas and electric bills. I'm guessing it is still owned by Calhoun. Is it?

Cutting it up into office space would be another huge undertaking. However, in recalling the old hotel across the street, the Flinthills Eyecare Associates building sure makes a nice replacement. That part of Commercial Street looks great.

I don't know about a downtown Bruffs. Parking? How about one of those places where people rent stalls to sell their individual wares? If it's done right, it could be a strong attraction to the downtown. Perhaps one of those "stalls" could be large enough to handle renting tuxedos. I'd sure love to see a real bread bakery. I said real artisan bread, like they have at Panera. Hmmmm, are you thinking what I'm thinking? Panera? Bread, soup...parking?

I'm trying here, Steve.

Alas, we have so many empty buildings in town. Popeye's, and Big Lots come to mind as well as Winter's.

Posted by methusla (anonymous) on September 7, 2009 at 10:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I suggest that all businesses, buildings, hell the whole downtown be moved to the treasured northwest section of Emporia, er Euphoria !
And yes, that is the sound of frustration you are hearing !

Posted by b3bill (anonymous) on September 7, 2009 at 12:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I think it would be fantastic if the Lyon County Historical Society could get the building. They really need a much larger building for all the items they have to display.

Posted by Steve_Corbin (anonymous) on September 7, 2009 at 12:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

No, NO, NO, b3bill.

We don't need another tax-exempt property in Lyon County.

Posted by admireed (anonymous) on September 7, 2009 at 1:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

511 Commercial Bldg owned by the Woods. App Value $318,000

I agree with Steve no more tax exempt properties unless they are supported 100% by donations. Hist Society gets too many tax dollars now. Yes, it is a fine organization but needs 99+% private funding

Posted by justaflushaway (anonymous) on September 7, 2009 at 5:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Has anyone else noticed that Dairy Delight out on West 6th is closed. His business and name were on the same list as madelyns and now the name and business has been removed from the KDOR list on their website..

Probably ,when he saw they were closing in, he paid and bailed out to save face and name

Posted by joecitizen (anonymous) on September 7, 2009 at 8:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

gwen and others

I believe the reason that people keep bringing up the woods family, is that they are just as much a part of this as jean. It was widely known that Casey was the face and voice of madelynns. If the IRS did as they say they did, and sent letters and did till taps, and visited, then there is absolutely no way that casey did not know what was happening. Furthermore, it was his reported business acumen, as supported by the "success" of his involvement with madelynn's that made him a viable candidate for the director of Emporia Main Street.
So why is unrealistic for people to now call into question, his abilities to manage the organization.

i'm sure you are familiar with the metaphor of journalism being like an onion. many layers. have you peeled them all? Or did you just peal a few, before they make you cry, and you abandoned the investigation?

These forums, are as you claim, an opportunity for civil discussion, of the important issues facing our community. There is no reasonable expectation of fact, as we the people, are not afforded the same access as professional journalists. we speculate, you validate. It's just that simple.

i'm dieing to see some real investigative journalism from the gazette.

let's look past social alliances, and see some truth. This should not be a hands off topic.

Posted by YY4U (anonymous) on September 7, 2009 at 8:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I said it on another string and I think it merits repeating here:

Long ago in colonial America, the troublemakers were punished in the center of town for the entire public to see. Locked in wooden frameworks in the town square, they served their time while the town people scoffed at them. Two types of framework punishment were:

· Pillory - this framework had holes for the criminal's head and hands to stick through while they stood up. Once locked in they might get rotten fruit or other items thrown at them. The wrongdoer was condemned to carry out his punishment in rain or shine or freezing weather.

· Stocks - it had holes in it which the troublemaker's ankles were locked while setting down.

· Whipping posts - where a criminal might be whipped before the whole town.

We don't do that anymore. Today we assess monetary penalties and seize businesses. Then the story is released in the local paper. I think if the town people are allowed to scoff at them, then the monetary penalties should be reduced.

Posted by glarson (Gwen Larson) on September 8, 2009 at 3:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

moved to a forum:

http://www.emporiagazette.com/forums/ope...