Posted by TacoBellB (anonymous) on October 20, 2009 at 1:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Good thing we have such a high unemployment rate, if the teachers don't agree, let them strike and replace them with all the college graduates that couldn't find teaching jobs in May due to the hiring freezes! That should bring costs in the district down.

Posted by tbluma (anonymous) on October 20, 2009 at 3:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

1.6 M for the teachers ( I'm not saying they deserve it all) instead of the practce football field would go a long way.

Posted by Steve_Corbin (anonymous) on October 20, 2009 at 3:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Let's do it, FOR THE KIDS.

Posted by HenryVIII (anonymous) on October 20, 2009 at 3:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I agree, Steve. I urge everyone to please "think of the children". LOL! They are, after all, our most precious (renewable) resource.
'enry

Posted by open_eyes (anonymous) on October 20, 2009 at 4:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Outsourcing. I'm sure there are plenty of people willing to teach for much less dinero. And do as poor a job overall as what we get from much of our outsourced work. Heck, we'd probably save enough money to pour another $1.6 million into a new basketball court & pool.

Just kidding - sarcastically. I agree, tbluma, $1.6 million could go a long ways towards that.

Posted by goodoleboy (anonymous) on October 20, 2009 at 5:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

We have good teachers and bad teachers, but one thing is certain, they are not paid in accordance of what they are worth. All the fancy equipment in world will not facilitate better learning if we cannot entice the right individuals with proper compensation.

My question is, what are the issues that are hanging up this agreement?

Posted by toninj (anonymous) on October 20, 2009 at 5:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The problem is TENURE.I agree many teachers don't make enough money, but there are just as many making to much money. It really needs to be based on job performance and all these contracts being redone every year needs to stop.

As far as the track being fixed, I believe that is grant money. So not sure why that is being brought up here. It has nothing to do with teacher pay.

Posted by sandman (anonymous) on October 20, 2009 at 6:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

toninj, sounds like you need to research concerning "track being fixed" Grant money? Let's try "Stimulus" package and what that 6+ million dollars is truly designed to aid. It was brought up because of the various "needs" of the district, one being teachers pay in an economy that there is a shortage of money to carry out "normal duties". I realize that even though they are both "given" money and the taxpayer is liable, "stimulus" is supposely to "stimulate" the economy where "grant" is just something we give if someone is good at "filling out the papers". In either case, it is at a time when our nation is BROKE and living on "borrowed" time, our state, also, and the city doesn't seem to be in much better shape! Goes back to "spend wisely"!

Posted by nks (anonymous) on October 20, 2009 at 7:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I completely agree that a teacher is one of the most important jobs in the world, but come on.... The average teacher in USD 253 makes $50K and the average administrator makes a little over $80K. I understand that it is an average, but that is good money. Yes, they have a huge responsibility,but so do others in the work force that make much less. I am in a position at my place of employment ( a respected company in town) and have a huge responsibilty with every decision I make. I have been there 15 plus years and would LOVE to glimpse even $50K per year. A lot of people in the work force, myself included have been asked to take pay cuts or freezes for at least the past year and a half.
They work 10 months a year, are given more and more inservice and work days, a Wednesday early release day, para's, student teachers, and all sorts of specialized teachers that take the work load off their daily routine.
I am sure there are many that put in 50 hour weeks, but dont we all. In contrast, when dropping kids off, I see a good number of them showing up about the same time I do and the parking lot is empty by 4:30.
Once again, I respect them and actually went to college to be a teacher, but dont give me that they need more money right now. At this time of history, everyone needs a little cash relief.

Posted by sandman (anonymous) on October 20, 2009 at 8:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

nks, Not sure where you got the "medial" teaching salary, inwhich I just looked up, for the state of Kansas is $38,030. I'm assuming that you received your teaching degree (cost) and then, you continue to go to school to keep your certificate and or move up the ladder, correct? You leave your workplace and take approx. 2 hours of work home, not dealing with home but SCHOOL. Then there is "in-service" and the days/evenings that you must be at school for parent/teacher conferences, school activities etc. The list goes on and on. The school year is also getting longer but also the burden placed on our teachers is growing, not only by State/Fed statues but our parenting abilities, nationwide.

If a 1.6 million practice field can be afforded, what has been said "Pay the teachers more", fix and update the districts buildings, materials etc.

Posted by nks (anonymous) on October 20, 2009 at 9:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The figures came directly from Mr Heim during the PBB committee meetings.

Posted by goodoleboy (anonymous) on October 20, 2009 at 9:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

nks,

You heard dead wrong. From this article in the gazette.
http://www.emporiagazette.com/news/2009/...

" total base salary for a starting teacher was proposed at $34,167, with a 1.089 percent increase."

So ballpark a new teacher makes around 33-34K per year. Start taking retirement and paying for health care there is not much left. And nevermind the fact that the school year keeps getting LONGER and they are asked to work more for the same pay. They SHOULD make 50k, with a 4 year degree their salaries are substandard at best.

Posted by nks (anonymous) on October 20, 2009 at 9:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You are giving starting wages. The figures that were shown during the PBB meetings were average salaries.

Posted by alfalfa (anonymous) on October 20, 2009 at 9:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ordinarily this is where I would say something along the lines of "these teachers need to realize times are tough and quit being so difficult". However, sometime during the last 12 months I have gone from being a Republican to a borderline Communist. On one hand we have a school board willing to spend $1.6 million on a practice field, then plead poverty to the teachers, hard to reconcile that one. And on another hand, we have taxpayers of this nation bailing out companies that are once again considering millions of dollars in bonuses to the very people who led them to ruin, meanwhile, we nickel and dime teachers, firefighters, policemen, you name it. Maybe it is time to light some torches and grab some pitchforks, and sort things out in a little more forceful manner.

Posted by goodoleboy (anonymous) on October 20, 2009 at 10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

So your telling me that on average teachers in this town make 50k a year? The math is not adding up. There would have to be quite a few teachers making much more than 50k a year to offset the newer hires. Thus their salaries would almost have to effectively double over the course of their career in order to make your statement true, which I know for a fact does not happen. I have a good friend that has his master's degree, tenured and 5 years in and makes nowhere near 50k. You must not have heard correctly.

Posted by goodoleboy (anonymous) on October 20, 2009 at 10:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

My personal opinion is that if our education system would stop worrying so much about the extras and focus more on paying these people what they are worth then we would have better educated children. There is little to no incentive to be a teacher nowdays with the exception that it is a great job for a spouse to be able to spend time with his/her family and have decent supplemental income.

Posted by nks (anonymous) on October 20, 2009 at 10:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

http://www.usd253.org/home/inside-usd253...

Page 10

Posted by goodoleboy (anonymous) on October 20, 2009 at 10:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

In order for this to be true Emporia must have a very old teaching pool of employees on average, which are likely grandfathered in to certain clauses. I know for a fact that a 5th year graduate level teacher does not make much over 42k, and being a graduate bumps your pay quite a bit. Something does not add up.

Posted by nks (anonymous) on October 21, 2009 at 4:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I agree it is pitiful that the starting pay is so low and I have heard that the insurance premiums are sky high, but looking at the district as a whole and as an average they make pretty good money. Don't forget that to AVERAGE 50K some have to make substantially more than that if the starting pay is the low 30's.

Posted by Steve_Corbin (anonymous) on October 21, 2009 at 6:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Way to hang in there nks. State your opinion and back it up with facts.
Times are hard, for everyone.
Now is NOT the time to ask for a raise or less hours worked.
In todays economy asking for this could result in A LOT LESS HOURS WORKED, (think lay-off or termination).
Only on Wall Street are bonuses being earned:)

Posted by snow (anonymous) on October 21, 2009 at 8:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

For a copy of the salary schedule, go to http://www.usd253.org/home/inside-usd253...

Instead of concentrating only on starting salaries, note the small increases given for years of experience and college hours earned.

Graduate hours at ESU are $173.00 per credit hour plus fees.

Many teachers--if not all--spend a great deal of their own money on materials they use in the classroom.

Posted by HenryVIII (anonymous) on October 21, 2009 at 9:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Wow...teachers average 50K for only 9 months work! That ain't bad. That's the equivalent of a 12 month position making $66,700.00! What are they complaining about again?
‘enry

Posted by methusla (anonymous) on October 21, 2009 at 9:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I don' t really know if teachers are underpaid or not, however what I do know is that people keep bringing up the " grants" and " stimulus " and the fact that 6 million dollars, whether it is a " grant " or " stimulus " is being " given " to the school district or City of Emporia ! The plain hard truth is, this 6 million dollars is not a " given freeby " , someone is going to be paying for this 6 million dollar " giveaway " for a long time to come and I will give you one guess as to who will be paying for this " Freeby " !
Another point, " The Well, so to speak " is drying up pretty quickly or possibly is already dry, I would tend to think the latter is true, judging by the amount of worthless money that is being printed !
Whether anyone wants to admit it or not this country is in as they say, " dire straits " !
All one has to do is look at where the poverty level has been adjusted to, to see exactly how bad things really are in this country ! FYI if you are making less than $ 24, 000 per year, you are considered as living in poverty ! This number will make a lot of Americans a poverty statistic !

Posted by goodoleboy (anonymous) on October 21, 2009 at 6:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

http://www.usd253.org/home/inside-usd253...

Just as I thought, the only way it is feasible is if the majority of the staff is at the higher end of the spectrum. I will say it again, teachers are underpaid. The amount of time and cost of education it takes to get to the upper tier of that pay scale is in no way commensurate with what they should earn. 34k out of school and topping at at 50k that is not going attract the people we need educating our children. Whats more look at the administrators, they get some nice bumps, no cares about that though....

"Wow...teachers average 50K for only 9 months work! That ain't bad. That's the equivalent of a 12 month position making $66,700.00! What are they complaining about again?
‘enry"

Just an FYI its almost 10 months now, and they keep adding more time, at the same rates....

Posted by goodoleboy (anonymous) on October 21, 2009 at 6:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

If anything people should be happy about the average salary, it means that in a few years when people start to retire so will the salary, and with it the quality of education because 34k a year just won't cut it.

Posted by goodoleboy (anonymous) on October 21, 2009 at 6:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"I agree it is pitiful that the starting pay is so low and I have heard that the insurance premiums are sky high, but looking at the district as a whole and as an average they make pretty good money. Don't forget that to AVERAGE 50K some have to make substantially more than that if the starting pay is the low 30's."

As stated in the chart above, the only way it is possible is to have a great many grad level teachers with 20+ years in to achieve that. You tell me who is going to go to school for 6-7 years for a masters to end up with a job that tops out at about 55k and has crappy benefits?

Posted by goodoleboy (anonymous) on October 21, 2009 at 6:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Way to hang in there nks. State your opinion and back it up with facts.
Times are hard, for everyone.
Now is NOT the time to ask for a raise or less hours worked.
In todays economy asking for this could result in A LOT LESS HOURS WORKED, (think lay-off or termination).
Only on Wall Street are bonuses being earned:)"

They are getting more and more hours imposed upon them, by that standard alone it merits compensation. Looks like the administration is still getting theirs regardless. Education and teachers are a necessity, and our education system continues to get worse, wonder why that is? Perhaps because teacher salaries have been stagnant for so long that those that would be excellent teachers are turning to other professions? Not everyone does what they want in life just for the money, but it does play a significant factor in decision making.

Posted by oh4theluvof (anonymous) on October 21, 2009 at 6:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

$34,000 a year starting salary is not a tiny amount, people. My husband has been at his job for seven years and may just now be at that income (I'll know for sure after this years taxes). He started way under that. Teachers went to college, he worked. When they have been at it for seven years, they will be farther up the scale...that means their degree has paid off. It is arrogant to think that any degree should start you higher than blue collar top scale just by virtue of being a degree. They are starting at blue collar mid-scale and that is reasonable.
I bring in a small amount to supplement, but his is our primary income. We have plenty and are still able to give charitably. Even if they have higher insurance and are spending on the classroom, they still have money to live comfortably. They might not have money to buy a $200,000 house full of the highest priced electronics and furniture and a $90,000 car right off, but that's okay........they will survive. Most of them are secondary incomes anyway, right? Even if those are the primary or only income, teachers have proven that they are smart enough to teach, so I'm sure they are smart enough to prioritize and budget so they can eventually attain that upper class lifestyle if that is their goal.
I am not anti-teacher, but I am anti-arrogance.

Posted by admireed (anonymous) on October 21, 2009 at 6:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

nks

Thanks for the link. It is all right there. Full Time Teachers $50,000+, Adm $95,000+, Classified (non) $29,000+

Posted by rlimbaugh (anonymous) on October 21, 2009 at 6:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

College educated individuals are not going to be snapping up 34k a year entry level jobs. Its not arrogance, it's common sense, people go to higher universities for a reason, and that reason is for a better future.

Posted by goodoleboy (anonymous) on October 21, 2009 at 6:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Wow I can't believe this but I agree with Limbaugh LOL!

admireed,

http://www.usd253.org/home/inside-usd253...

This chart is much more telling, and it shows how many aging teachers we have in our district. Which should be of serious concern to us as a community as we "turn over" the reigns to the next generation. Hope we get more than we pay for!

Posted by YY4U (anonymous) on October 21, 2009 at 7:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I think people go to higher universities because their parents tell them "Go to School or Get a Job!". The lazy one go to school and the rebellious ones move out.

Posted by oh4theluvof (anonymous) on October 21, 2009 at 7:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I understand that the salary amount in question seems small to anyone who hears national or big city numbers, but when you have a grasp of our local economy, you might realize that $34,000 here is equal to $50,000 in say, Dallas, TX.

Posted by Beo_Saoirse (anonymous) on October 21, 2009 at 7:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Those of you who think teachers are paid enough need to spend some time in today's classrooms. It ain't the education of our youth.

Here is a question: If the average salary is $50,000, are there more teachers on the over $50K side or the under $50K side?

Posted by goodoleboy (anonymous) on October 21, 2009 at 7:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Here is a question: If the average salary is $50,000, are there more teachers on the over $50K side or the under $50K side?"

http://www.usd253.org/home/inside-usd253...

This link tells the tale, the law of averages dictates that there must be quite a few at the upper end to offset the newer ones. To which i say again, with the newer hires, in regards to our kids, I hope we get more than pay for.

Posted by Beo_Saoirse (anonymous) on October 21, 2009 at 8:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

And the higher-salaried teachers are the once most likely to be near retirement, correct?

Posted by goodoleboy (anonymous) on October 22, 2009 at 3:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"I understand that the salary amount in question seems small to anyone who hears national or big city numbers, but when you have a grasp of our local economy, you might realize that $34,000 here is equal to $50,000 in say, Dallas, TX."

So by that logic the teachers in Dallas,TX still make sub par wages, and again you miss the point. Why would people continue to go into this profession( one that will continue to grow with our population) if they can do other things and come away much better financially?

Posted by Steve_Corbin (anonymous) on October 22, 2009 at 7:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

according to the 2000 census:
The median income for a household in the city was $30,809, and the median income for a family was $41,571.

Males had a median income of $27,915 versus $20,946 for females. The per capita income for the city was $15,157.

About 12.4% of families and 17.9% of the population were below the poverty line, including 19.6% of those under age 18 and 10.1% of those age 65 or over.

The 2010 census will be taken next year, will these figures improve or get worse?

The age old mantra of "you've got to get a college degree to make a good living is old line thinking. A word to young people considering college for a better paying job;
Consider vocational school, learn a trade, become a nurse, plumber, electrician, truck driver and earn some real income. Take your higher learning, (college) at night and on line to get the well rounded education needed today. After all, how many business management graduates does the country need in this economy?
If a person goes into teaching JUST for the wages paid, do you really want them teaching your kids?

AGAIN, I am not anti-teacher, I know quite a few who are dedicated and hard working people. the ones I know did not go into it blindfolded, they knew the pay sucked. They wanted to make a difference and God Bless Them.

Posted by goodoleboy (anonymous) on October 22, 2009 at 8:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

10 year old data is just that, the new data will be interesting to say the least. Cost of living has gone up, and wages have stayed stagnant in middle class jobs.

"Consider vocational school, learn a trade, become a nurse, plumber, electrician, truck driver and earn some real income. Take your higher learning, (college) at night and on line to get the well rounded education needed today."

Trade skills can earn a great living, RN programs are almost always 4 year deals, LPN and CNA's make dismal wages in comparison to RN's.

"After all, how many business management graduates does the country need in this economy?"

Quite a few actually, and currently Engineer's are a red hot commodity, so is anything in health care, accounting, etc. There are quite a few more disciplines out there than "business management". Check this list, getting a college degree is NOT old line thinking, forgive me for being blunt but that is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard you say here. The list:
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/...

"AGAIN, I am not anti-teacher, I know quite a few who are dedicated and hard working people. the ones I know did not go into it blindfolded, they knew the pay sucked. They wanted to make a difference and God Bless Them."

Which is all the more reason we should take care of these people better.

Posted by Steve_Corbin (anonymous) on October 22, 2009 at 11:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Well Goodoleboy,
dumb comment?
What do you expect?

I barely made it out of high-school.
But if you will re-read my quote"you've got to get a college degree to make a good living is old line thinking." Notice the words "to make a good living"?
I know of a lot of people without a college degree that are doing o.k. I know of a lot a people with college degrees that are not. Kind of depends on the individual doesn't it?
But back to the thread, If a teacher, (or anyone for that matter), doesn't think they are being paid what they are worth, why continue? It's not like we are standing at 10% unemployment or anything like that.

Posted by goodoleboy (anonymous) on October 22, 2009 at 1:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I stand by what I said, yes you do need a college degree to make a good living. Whether it be a few years at a Tech school or a 4 year degree, that is quickly becoming the norm. There are always a few exceptions but on the whole this is the norm.

Posted by sandman (anonymous) on October 22, 2009 at 3:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

goodoleboy, for once I agree with you. As I was always told, "you can lose a job" but never a college degree once you obtain ! Also, in having a "college degree" really doesn't do it today, you need graduate degrees. As in the past, an 8th grade education would do it, then a HS education, then a college degree, we are now post-graduate.

Posted by oh4theluvof (anonymous) on October 22, 2009 at 3:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

College grads are already a dime-a-dozen and post grads are becoming so. As Steve said, everyone thinks they have to go to college to amount to anything so everyone does. When everyone does it, it isn't special anymore. Sandman points out that post-grad (I assume she meant Master's) degrees are the only ones worth much anymore and that's true because of the over-saturation of BA/BS degrees in every field. Soon, Ph.D.s and Ed.D.s will be the only valuable degree because everyone will have completed their Master's to get an edge in their field.
The economy works at it's own pace and right now it's going backward. The economy doesn't have to rise at the same rate we saturate the markets with degrees although the top-heaviness is thought to be be slowing down the economy. A degree is no guarantee of anything, it's a gamble just like everything else. When everyone bets on the same thing, the stakes drop.

Posted by goodoleboy (anonymous) on October 22, 2009 at 7 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"College grads are already a dime-a-dozen and post grads are becoming so."

Depends on the field, if you are an engineer or accountant a BS is all you to step into a great career. A degree in the right field is not a gamble, its sure thing unless you self destruct.

Posted by kseyetie (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 1:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I've learned two things in my life: 1. Most Americans are experts at doing every job in the world, except for the one they currently have. 2. Most people believe nearly everyone is overpaid except they are not. Those who think teaching is easy remind me of the time in New York City, during a teachers' strike; they let anyone who would show up teach, and paid them the daily rate. 95% or so would not come back for a second day.

Posted by seriouslyfolks (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 2:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I think all teachers should make $100,000 a year plus perks(including a free set of steak knives every year on seasonal celebration day).

Posted by Steve_Corbin (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 6:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

seriouslyfolks for school board!

You've got the teachers vote.

Posted by YY4U (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 7:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I think the teachers should go on strike for a few years to find out that the world doesn't come to a standstill without them. Parent's will figure out how to make arrangements for their own child's daily learning activities if society would just quit doing it for them.

Posted by seriouslyfolks (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 8:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

If they do go on strike they should still get their 100k a year and perks but maybe not the steak knives. Just because you get a free lunch doesn't mean you get sharp utensils to cut it into bite size pieces.

R.

Posted by sandman (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 8:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

YY4U, say have a great idea!!!! Since you feel as you do concerning teachers, why don't you volunteer and go in a couple days a week and help? Then the teachers could see how a "professional" would teach

Posted by YY4U (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 9:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

sandman, The school won't let me anywhere close. They say I'm a bad influence with my bad language, cigarette smoking and guns and cool stuff like that.

Posted by tbluma (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 9:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

A good teacher with experience may be worth more than 100K a year.
The problem is how many are good.
If anyone chooses a profession, goes to school for four years, gets a degree and doesn't know what they are going to make or bitch about what they make afterwards probably shouldn't have recieved their degree. They knew when they went in.
My wife has a masters in administration. When she didn't like it anymore she retired. You either like your job and do well at it, hate your job and get tenured(and this does mean just teachers), or you change professions. I personally couldn't have been a teacher, I couldn't put up with the disrespect of the parents or the kids. I couldn't have put up with the government regulations. For the most part schools are nothing more than daycare centers. I you are a teacher or a administrator you have no way to really discipline the students. We have pass or fail because we don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. The kids can't play dodgeball, they might get hurt. If you're a teacher and you suspect child abuse at home you're required to turn it in by law but if you're wrong by law you're at fault ( no win deal here). It's very seldom the kids fault if their grades aren't good (acording to ma and pa). A kindergarten teacher probably shouldn't hug a kid (child abuse). We send our kids to school at 7AM to get a free breakfast, we serve them free meals all summer so we parents don't have to take care of them. If we're illeagal we have to teach bilingually ( while the rest of the class is held up) etc,etc,etc. Hell if I was a good teacher I would want 100k plus benifits plus a lawyer on retainer paid for by the school district. If I was a bad teacher I would want to be tenured and hope nobody noticed me. If I still had kids in school I'd be riding someone's butt 24/7.
Kinda hell if you do and hell if you don't. No matter what side you're on.
I say there should be more parents that give a damn, less govrenment intervention, and one of my favorites no NEA.
Now try to guess who's side I'm on because I'm not sure myself.
And as a side note I agree with many others, goodoleboy enough already with the cut and paste or the reprints or echos or what ever. What the hell is up with you and you're constant reprinting of what everybody posts. Jeez get a life

Posted by glarson (Gwen Larson) on October 23, 2009 at 9:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

moved to a forum:

http://www.emporiagazette.com/news/2009/...