Better spent
Tuesday, October 13, 2009
THINK WHAT YOU could do with $79 million.
That’s the price tag of NASA’s recent mission to crash a rocket stage into a moon crater to look for evidence of water in the soil.
The mission, called LCROSS, for Lunar Crater Observation and Sensing Satellite, builds on previous moon studies that speculate the components of water may exist on the moon at the bottom of craters that possibly have never seen sunlight. According to NASA, the presence of water on the moon could help in future missions to other parts of the solar system, or could provide resources for possible colonies on the moon.
The prospect of exploring beyond the moon is an exciting one, as is the possibility of a base for humans on the cratered satellite.
But in this time of recession, spiraling money woes that are affecting virtually everyone in the country, health-care costs skyrocketing and educators paying out of their own pockets to stock their classrooms and the military stretched thin as it tries to quell unrest in two countries, is it prudent to spend vast amounts of money on moon missions whose outcomes are questionable at best?
After all, as poet, novelist and NPR commentator Andrei Codrescu asked, tongue-in-cheek, about the mission — if there is water on the moon, what are we going to do with it? Grow moon corn?
NASA officials say a lunar outpost will be a big step toward further exploration of the solar system, and the mission to look for components of water also could provide clues to the formation of the planets.
All well and good, but surely, right now, we could find a better way to spend $79 million. The Apollo moon missions met similar criticism, with some questioning the vast amounts of money spent to keep sending men there when there were so many troubles at home.
For all the excitement about the notion of moon bases and missions to Mars, plans that will be decades in the making, wouldn’t it be better right now to focus on issues right here on Earth?
As thrilling and informative as it may be for the science community, there are better ways to spend money than to crash rockets into the moon.
Russ Morgan
Reporter
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Why don't they just fake crashing a rocket into the moon like they faked the moon landing? I bet it would be cheaper and with today's special effects I bet they could do a real swell job!
R.
October 13, 2009 at 9:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Why, do they want to know if there is water on the moon anyway ? Are they thinking about de-populating the earth by sending people to the moon to live and if so what are they going to do about air for those people ?
Seems to me that if the moon was meant for people to inhabit, there would have been people put there by the " CREATOR " !
October 13, 2009 at 10:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
HenryVIII (anonymous) says...
Do you people not understand how the economy works? We pay the NASA folks to do such things and the NASA employees put their paychecks in their banks and then go buy goods and services from other people. If we put all the NASA folks out of work, that'll be less money to keep the economy going.
Plus, finding a reliable source of water on the moon would help space exploration in a number of ways. Since when is science and exploration a bad thing? Oh, I guess it's always been that way in good ol' Kansas! I forgot we think evolution isn't real...so sad...
'enry
October 14, 2009 at 12:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
You pay me.....so I can pay them.....so they can pay you.....so you can pay me.
That is exactly the way the economy works people. I'm not saying it it should work this way...or even that it is right....I'm just saying that it's real. If nobody spends any money....how is anybody supposed to make any money?
Having said that however...it seems to me we could get a faster return on this investment....and do more immediate good for the economy....if we would just build a couple of bridges (preferably to somewhere), or rebuild some highway.
October 14, 2009 at 3:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Oh yea, I forgot, some years back the gov' t. and NASA spent how many billions on, supposedly putting a man on the moon ! Didn' t really happen !
So spend billions on crashing a rocket into a crater on the moon makes perfect sense ! Not !
Yea thats real fiscally sound economy at work isn' t it !
Instead of spending billions to crash a rocket into the moon, why not give the billions of dollars in tax payer money spent on crashing a rocket into the moon, back to the taxpayers and really watch the economy thrive and grow, but doing such a thing makes no sense at all does it !
Crashing a rocket into the moon ! What a stupid, stupid waste of money !
As I have said before, one cannot spend more money than they have or take in or tax the people of the country into poverty and expect to have a thriving and growing economy !
October 14, 2009 at 8:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Putting money back into the taxpayers pocket that is then spent at Wal-Mart to buy things made in China does wonders for China's economy....I'm less sure how much it helps ours.
Why do so many people believe we never went to the moon?
October 14, 2009 at 8:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
I wonder who' s fault it is that Chinas economy is so great and out pacing the rest of the worlds economy ?
Could it be that most of the American Companys and other world companys have seen fit to outsource jobs to China, Mexico, etc., because the cost of producing a product outside their own country could possibly be less, even though the products are mostly inferior ?
Could it be that most Chinese laborers earn between 75 cents and a $1.25 per day instead of between $10 and $70 per hour ?
Could it be that the Chinese govt. has not spent money unnecessarily ?
I don' t know for sure, I am just speculating !
October 14, 2009 at 9:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Nobody (anonymous) says...
The people who believe we did not go to the moon, also think that Elvis isn't dead.
October 14, 2009 at 9:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Oh great here we go again, someone claiming that Elvis is dead.
Elvis traded places with an Elvis impersonator so he could live a quiet life and then the impersonator died. Elvis lives in a nursing home with JFK who is now an old black man. Duh. Oh and they saved us all from a mummy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7Qo74...
R.
October 14, 2009 at 9:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
A little info on Chinese workers average wage.
Good Luck Competing Against Chinese Labor Costs
Mfg. Job Growth In China Is Headed Up, Not Down;
109 Million Mfg. Workers In China Dwarfs Number In U.S.
An average Chinese wage of $0.57 per hour -- or $104 per month -- is about 3 percent of the average U.S. manufacturing worker's wage, according to data collected by Banister. "Equally as striking, regional competitors in the newly industrialized economies of Asia had, on average, manufacturing labor costs more than 10 times those for China's manufacturing workers, and Mexico and Brazil had manufacturing labor costs about four times those for China's manufacturing employees."
The average hourly wage for a worker in a rural setting was $0.41 per hour, and migrant workers are making even less than that.
The average annual earnings for manufacturing workers in cities were $1,347 (11,152 yuan at the official exchange rate) for the year 2002. Manufacturing workers in the countryside averaged $837 (6,927 yuan) for the year. Urban manufacturing workers average 45.4 hours of work per week, "and it is...reasonable to assume that [rural] manufacturing workers average 50 hours of work per week in 2002," writes Banister.
source, http://www.manufacturingnews.com/news...
Hmmmm, I wonder if this is why Chinas economy is better than most of the economys of the rest of the worlds countries ?
October 14, 2009 at 9:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
HenryVIII (anonymous) says...
methusla,
You are really spewing forth the crazy talk today! Yes, we put a man (numerous men, actually) on the moon. Deal with it. There are a lot of reasons why having knowledge of water on the moon would benefit us.
Sure, we might colonize the moon someday. You ask, "what are they going to do about air for those people?" Do you know what water is made of? Water is also called H2O...See that 'O' at the end? That stands for oxygen...Do you know what the crucial component of "air" is? That's right...oxygen. My point is that they could use that water to create "air" for people to breathe.
Beyond colonizing the moon, the simple knowledge of there being water there would help us understand things about our planet and planets throughout the universe. I know Jesus didn't say anything about there being water on the moon in your favorite story book, but that doesn't mean it isn't there.
A third significant reason I can think of as to why this is a good use of resources is that we could use the moon to manufacture things used in space. Rocket fuel could be made with the help of water found on the moon. This means we wouldn't have to waste so much fuel lifting-off from Earth's gravity. Fuel is heavy, so the more fuel we try to blast off into space, the more fuel we'll need to get if off the planet. If it's already in space (the moon), it'll save money in the long run and make outer space (Mars?) exploration more feasible.
Finally, you say, “Seems to me that if the moon was meant for people to inhabit, there would have been people put there by the " CREATOR " !”
Do you think people shouldn’t fly because we weren’t born with wings? This alleged creator gave us the know-how to build airplanes right? Well, didn’t this same creator give us the know-how to travel to the moon? Maybe this “creator” put the water on the moon for us to find? Just like the dinosaur fossils; he likes to hide little Easter eggs to make us scratch our heads when we find them.
I don't know what you have against China...Seems like you're jealous... Weren't the Chinese the first people to create rockets?
'enry
October 14, 2009 at 10:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
giggles (anonymous) says...
HenryVIII, that miniscule amount of "O" you are refering to, would only be helpful if that is what we mostly breathe. Considering we mostly breathe Nitrogen (at least 70% in fact). Finding this water, that has some molecules of oxygen in it doesn't really materialize into a good reason for this, especially at this time. We live on earth, we aren't nearing dire straights to the point of having to find somewhere else just yet. We do have quite the set of problems we can fix HERE.
October 14, 2009 at 11:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Isn't the fact the we can only breathe oxygen just the "religious" sect of our society trying to hold us back from trying new things? What if we actually can breath water but "they" don't want us to because it would be super cool man?! I totally think someone should try breathing water and show the "religious" sect what's for! Henry are you up for it?
R.
October 14, 2009 at 11:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
HenryVIII (anonymous) says...
seriouslyfolks,
Not me, guy. It'll take millions of years of evolution before my efforts would make a difference. I'm not willing to sacrifice myself for the cause... Maybe if we fund genetic engineering we can make human(ish) beings that can breathe underwater... O'course the religious types ain't gonna like us fiddling around with genetics! No, sir. I say if we have the ability, it must be the creator's plan! Why else would he allow it?
I think it’s fun to say aloud that ”we have a lot of vigorous and/or enthusiastic religious sects” around town! If you ask me, there ain’t no better kind of sects to have than religious sects...
'enry
October 14, 2009 at 11:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
HENRYVIII,
Man, you just can' t deal with someone putting forth an opinion that does not align with what you or anyone else believes, without being uncivil, disrespectful or insulting can you or is it just me and my opinions you have a penchant for attacking !
Take a look at the following websites and see if you think these are also crazy opinions
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/moon.htm
http://www.moonmovie.com/moonmovie/de...
Also if the U.S. put men on the moon in 1969, then why not send an exploration team to the moon today, instead of wasting 79 million dollars crashing a rocket into a moon crater to determine if water exists or existed on the moon ?
The technology of today is supposed to be better than that of 1969 isn' t it ? So it should not be too much trouble to put a man or men on the moon again, in fact it should be much easier to do today. And yet the U.S. nor anyone else has even attempted such a supposed feat again !
I have nothing against China or the Chinese people ! I was merely trying to show the reason why so many of the worlds companys are outsourcing jobs to China, that reason being cheaper labor costs !
Finally, your whole idiotic post is the craziest thing you or that other person has ever posted on these threads !
Yes I know exactly what H2O is, however the 0 stands for OXYGEN, of which man cannot breath nothing but Oxygen for an extended period of time, without over oxygenating his blood, which can cause serious problems.
giggles is exactly right, man and animals have to breath Air .
Earths Atmosphere or the air that we breath and protects us from harmful suns rays is as follows, Dry air contains roughly (by volume) 78.08% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide, and trace amounts of other gases. Air also contains a variable amount of water vapor, on average around 1%.
Thank you very much !
October 14, 2009 at 11:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
I thought we evolved from water breathers originally?
October 14, 2009 at 12:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Why, if we were once able to breath under water can we not now? It seems to me that that would be a handy trick to use in survival.
October 14, 2009 at 12:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Okay so now that we know the secret to the economic success in China....Who's willing to stand with me and take a voluntary pay reduction down to fifty cents per hour?....remember its for the good of the country....can I see a show of hands?
October 14, 2009 at 12:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
open_eyes,
I always thought we evolved from the " PRIMORDIAL OOOZE " ! What ever that is .
October 14, 2009 at 12:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
seriouslyfolks,
Does evolution travel in a circle, if so, we may be able to breath under water again, someday !
October 14, 2009 at 12:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
As I've stated before, I am currently trying to get out of debt so I can take a different job, that means taking a pay cut, so I can have more time for my family and charity work. I don't know about going down to 50 cents though. lol
October 14, 2009 at 12:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
biscuitboy,
I thought that, what with, the declining value of the dollar, I thought that 50 cents an hour was about what the pay in the U.S. is, based on the value of the dollar nowadays !
October 14, 2009 at 1:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
HenryVIII (anonymous) says...
methusla,
Sorry to be uncivil. I wasn't calling you crazy (you seem to be perfectly sane), I just meant you were saying crazy things. The reason we aren't as keen to have a manned mission to the moon now is that it was and still is very dangerous. Back in 1969, folks weren't as sensitive to the loss of human life. Back then, space exploration (and beating the soviets) was a noble cause worth risking human life on. Nowadays, people would be all upset if something went wrong and a few astronauts were stranded on the moon to die. We'd have people like you crying about how the human life was wasted on a "pointless" mission to find water on the moon. How much would it cost to go back to the moon? To do it safely, I'm guessing it would be much more than 79 million dollars!
There is a show called Mythbusters on the Discovery channel. Awhile back, they did a show about moon landing myths. Here's a couple site of the results.
http://mythbustersresults.com/episode...
Basically, they busted all the conspiracy theorists’ points.
'enry
October 14, 2009 at 1:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Primordial ooze -> waterbreathers -> far-left liberals -> modern man.
Just kidding about 1 of the steps above - but not telling which one, its a secret - LOL
Well, it might travel in a circle - Kevin Costner could breathe underwater in WaterWorld. So possibly global warming (dismiss our current cooling trend) - will bring us full circle.
Biscuitboy, I think many are going to or have already taken quite a pay reduction. It's just not going to be voluntary. But not to fear, we will all be taken care of - as below!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-qknj...
October 14, 2009 at 1:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
That was a great video. I believe evolution must have passed those people by if they think the president can just come up with money out of no where and that they are going to get some of it. But then again a lot of people think Bush caused hurricane Katrina.
R.
October 14, 2009 at 2 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Remember, seriously, those are the "more sensible" folks.... ;-)
October 14, 2009 at 2:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Oh yeah. I forgot.
R.
October 14, 2009 at 2:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
HenryVIII (anonymous) says...
I have never heard a liberal say Bush cause Katrina. I have heard plenty of conservatives say liberals have said that, but that doesn't make it true. This is similar to conservatives saying liberals call them racist for not agreeing with Obama. I have never heard this come out of a liberal's mouth (or any other orifice) either.
Praise be to Obama. May he have mercy on your wretched republican soul.
‘enry
October 14, 2009 at 2:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
That's because you are chronically uninformed, Henry.
You need to check your liberal "orifice's" better ;-)
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/i...
Hillary Clinton: Bush Enviro Policy Caused Katrina
http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2...
German Minister Blames Bush for Katrina
----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAAHMD...
Janeane Garofalo declares Tea Party attendees racist and Keith Olbermann agrees.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/...
Jimmy Carter: Animosity towards Barack Obama is due to racism
Praise be to the truth. May those who's ears are closed, hear. May those who's eyes are closed, see. May those who close both while humming tunes to themselves, be informed before they post.
October 14, 2009 at 3:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Jimmy Carter was "partially" right, I believe there is animosity of Obama due to race. But there are also plenty of legit discussions about policy where is it not applicable.
As for Garofalo and Olbermann, they garner about as much respect as Kanye West.
October 14, 2009 at 3:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Myth Busters, great gobs of gobilty goob, these guys are experts on moon landings, etc., give me a break ! These myth buster guys have a hard time keeping from killing or mameing themselves, performing their so called scientific stunts, let alone proving whether there was actually a moon landing in 1969 or not ! These guys are really funny, but qualified scientists, Please !
October 14, 2009 at 3:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
HENRYVIII,
Do you believe that, with enough trickery, misinformation and outright lies, the people just might be fooled into believing that something really did happen, actually exists or is actually needed to make life better and to progress ?
Case in point, Iraq having a large stockpile of WMDs, was this true or was this a case of trickery, misinformation and out right lies ?
If the possibility of aquiring enough money is involved, even the best of us would or may be tempted to employ trickery, misinformation and outright lies to get it !
This sort of thing happens all the time, even closer to home than even you might imagine !
October 14, 2009 at 4:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Of course there is some animosity out there towards Obama due to race. Probably just as many who voted for him purely because of the color of his skin (which Obama himself even states). And plenty of legit discussions where it is not applicable. Geesh, a person has to print the disclaimer before you even post anymore. Ok, here's the disclaimer: I never said EVERYONE, or EVERY INSTANCE. Geesh.
In other words, I'm simply responding to Henry's claim that it's all made up by conservatives and no liberals whatsoever say it. Untrue. Again.
But there are plenty of liberals out there who try to play the race card about nearly every single issue where there is opposition. Daily. Prominent ones. Whether you think they garner respect or not. I could list plenty more, those are just some of the more known ones. (You also forgot to mention that Hillary Clinton, Pres Carter, and the head of Germany apparently also garner about as much respect as Kanye West.)
Check nearly every liberal reporter/media outlet - they all claim the protests are racially motivated, such as below:
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-she...
"Newsweek's Kelley: Protests Against Obama Are Because He's Black"
October 14, 2009 at 4:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
HenryVIII (anonymous) says...
open_eyes,
I believe those people are saying Bush's policies resulted in the bad preparation and reaction to Katrina. They didn't say he actually created the hurricane. Those are two very different things.
goodoleboy is right. I think a deep seeded racism is a factor to SOME of the animosity towards Obama. Remember, it wasn't long ago that it was acceptable to be racist. That sort of feeling doesn't just disappear overnight. That doesn't mean you are a racist, however, simply for disagreeing with Obama. Those people you listed didn't specifically state that either.
methusla,
I know they aren't exactly scientists, but my point about the Mythbusters was that they scientifically (using scientific method) proved that these things were possible. Thus debunking the "smoking gun" of your conspiracy theorists. I'd like to see some conspiracy theorist put as much effort into proving the landing didn't exist. Not just speculation and observation, but actually trying to reproduce it. Prove that a flag doesn't wobble in a vacuum, prove a footprint wouldn't be left in a dry vacuum, prove that the sun wouldn't cast different shadows, etc...
'enry
October 14, 2009 at 4:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Henry - pay attention and read closer.
From Hillary:
"In the last five years, the Bush administration has left no major environmental law untouched in their push to deregulate, undermining or rolling back decades of regulations put in place to protect our heath.
"The results are all around us," she says, citing "more greenhouse gases, global warming, rising seas, more violent storms like Katrina."
She said NOTHING about bad preparation or reaction. She claimed the violence of the storm was due to Bush's environmental policies. In other words..... it would have been much tamer if a Democrat had been in office - LOL
And in the racist points they SPECIFICALLY say the people at the tea parties are a bunch of racists. What part of this heading went, zoom, right over your head?
"Protests Against Obama Are Because He's Black"
??????
October 14, 2009 at 5:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Jimmy Carter: "I think an overwhelming portion of the intensely demonstrated animosity toward President Barack Obama is based on the fact that he is a black man"
(Now that doesn't sound to me like he's saying that SOME or just a small percentage of it is racist, does it? OVERWHELMING PORTION???????)
From Olbermann (regarding the tea parties): "This is not about spending, deficits, or taxes".
Sounds to me like they are pretty much making a blanket claim.
Maybe, like Henry and goodoleboy, (and me), they need to work on better usage of the word "SOME"......
October 14, 2009 at 5:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Garafalo: "It's not about taxes. It's all about racism, straight up. Its a bunch of redneck tea-bagging racists". (While Olbermann giggles and agrees 100%).
They didn't discuss or mention that it was just some. I'm listening to the link now, and they're pretty much using blanket statements.
October 14, 2009 at 5:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
You can't win the I can post more links than you can to prove my point battle with open_eyes....of course most of them come with an abundance of speculation and distortion but we will hear all of them nonetheless every time anybody so much as hints that some republicans might not be altogether honest and forthright.
I personally have pretty much given up playing the game because she has an immediate link to every thing that has ever been said that can be distorted enough to make all republicans look like saints compared to any and all democrats that ever walked the face of the earth
Continuing to debate the point with her just gives her more opportunity to post her tried and supposedly true links....and remember some people take these things at face value and believe them all.
October 14, 2009 at 5:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Quoting Garafalo is pretty much like quoting Glen Beck...both are such paragons of level-headed honesty.....NOT.....!
When I say I have never heard a liberal make some of these statement s that are attributed to them....I'm talking about every day people that I meet and talk to on the street......not some overpaid loud-mouth political hack who makes his...or her,,,,,living saying misleading stupid things.
October 14, 2009 at 5:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
First of all, biscuitgirl, I am not a she - I have stated often and plainly I am a he.
And YOU - are twisting everything around. I have never stated or implied that all republicans/conservatives are honest and forthright, nor that all liberals are exactly the opposite. YOU are taking everything and running with it WAY out of context.
The statement was: "I have never heard a liberal say Bush cause Katrina. I have heard plenty of conservatives say liberals have said that, but that doesn't make it true. This is similar to conservatives saying liberals call them racist for not agreeing with Obama. I have never heard this come out of a liberal's mouth (or any other orifice) either."
And by the way, that was Henry that made the statement, not you. Are YOU posting under multiple names?
I am simply showing that, these statements HAVE been made, by liberals, prominent ones, often, in public, on major media, etc........ and that it is NOT something just "made up" by conservatives.
NOTHING MORE.
Problem is......... look deeper..... you'll find plenty of "everyday people on the street" blogging, agreeing, etc. You'll find foreign journalists agreeing. You'll find politicians saying it. Yeah, I know, I'd like to label every single person who says something I don't agree with a "overpaid loud-mouth political hack"....... but unfortunately I can't. Alot of people (like those who think Obama gets the money from "his stash", for instance) - don't have enough sense to not believe every single word they are fed by the media. And they are fed alot. And I'm talking BOTH sides getting fed and eating it up. Maybe you haven't strolled down main street Emporia and heard people say it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist just because it isn't heard often in our little town. World's a tad bigger than that.
You said it all, biscuitgirl: Some people take these things at face value and believe them all. You've just named a very large segment of the American population (regarding media in general, not posts here)
Besides, I'd alot rather post some facts & links to back up claims than just saying "well, this is true, but I don't have time or inclination to prove it".
Lame
October 14, 2009 at 6:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
By the way, biscuitgirl, there are alot of Republicans/conservatives out there so corrupt and despicable I wouldn't be caught dead agreeing with them. Scum of the earth I avoid at all costs. And there are alot of liberals/Democrats out there that ARE saints - people I look up to and could never hope to be as good a human being as they are. People I admire greatly and hold in very high esteem.
Of course, this one I don't have links to prove my point, you'll just have to take my word for it that this is what I believe. ;-)
October 14, 2009 at 6:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
open-eyes....didn't mean to give you a gender crises....sorry you big he sir kinda guy.
My point....and I have tried to make it before.....is that stupid outlandish things are said on both sides......and in my mind one is not less stupid nor outlandish that the other. But the people that we see in your links are almost always the ones that say something like all democrats accuse all republicans of being racist.....we rarely ever see you linking the statements that have been made by some prominent republicans.....and a noticeable percentage of teabaggers that were overtly racist......and when you do it is often to counter a charge that you are ignoring a serious problem.
now....somebody less lame than I could I'm sure take the time to disgorge and equal number of asinine things that republican hacks have said about liberals especially......remember Ann Coulter.....but all this trading insult for insult does is distract attention from a meaningful discussion of some serious problems facing this country. And I have no desire to engage in a my side is not as bad as your side NA-NA-NA-NA- Na- NA child's game with you or any one else.
I will however in the future try very hard to make certain I refer to you as Mister open-eyes ......Sir!
October 14, 2009 at 6:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
biscuitboy -
Point taken. You are right, I don't often point out the other side....... maybe if Patrick Kelley or the Gazette had printed more articles stating that all Democrats are a bunch of lying good-for-nothings or something I would have taken up the defense and pointed out some equally lying/lazy Repubs. But, alas, hell never froze over while good old Pat was spewing his weekly lack of wisdom. We've never even seen the GOP equivalent of the idiot Gary Lukert articles here. So I don't get nearly as many opportunities in one direction as I seem to in the other ;-)
But - again - you are simply either missing or skewing the point. The statement was made. I replied to the statement. PERIOD. Being an ex-president, I think of Carter as a "prominent politician". And he used the words "overwhelming portion."
So when someone tries to claim that nobody of any prominence is saying it, or that the people that do are merely pointing out the small percentage that truly are........ then I will point that out as a falsehood. And I'm not trying to get into a war of numbers. Just pointing out the statement, taken as it is, by itself, with nothing else implied or attached...... is FALSE.
PERIOD.
And thank you for restoring my bruised male ego. As often as we've conversed on here, I'm sure you are quite aware of my gender as I've stated, so I was not sure if you were just forgetful or if it was a veiled insult. Either way, I'm back to happily scratching and belching - LOL
October 14, 2009 at 6:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
methusla.......going back to the moon landing Mr methusla.....(wouldn't want to ruffle any body's masculine male type feathers).......Considering all the thousands of people who purportedly worked on the NASA moon shot....and the scores...(at a minimum)..... of scenery designers.....grips....cameraMEN.....editors....and technicians.....that would have been required to fake such a shot.....does it really seem feasible to you that that number of people could have kept such a monumental secret for so long without one single person selling their story to the National Enquirer.
October 14, 2009 at 6:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Don't forget the Russians (and others) were tracking us closely....... and they had everything to gain and nothing to lose by exposing the moon landings as frauds......
I simply referred to you, biscuitboy, in my reply, in the same manner you replied to me, as the female gender (no disrespect meant to females anywhere). Since I know we've conversed enough on here that you knew better. Not a single snide remark about it. Who got their feathers ruffled?
And I still find it curious that you claimed Henry's statement as your own............ multiple id's?
October 14, 2009 at 7:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
open-eyes......I certainly did not intend my use of the feminine as a veiled insult.....I received too many of those when I first started writing under biscuitboy to do that to anybody else now.
I have no explanation for my referring to you as a she other than to say that I have often thought of you and of4theluvof in much the same way......(a good way)......so maybe I just transferred her gender to you. Whatever the case....no insult intended.
Besides......some of the smartest and most interesting people I have ever known are "hers".
October 14, 2009 at 7:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
That's a good point about the Russians open-eyes......but if I was going to post under multiple ID's it wouldn't be Henry VIII.......considering all the gender preference crap I had to deal with initially it would be something really macho like oxslayer or dragonmaster or something along that line....lol
October 14, 2009 at 7:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
No offense taken - hatchet buried.
Besides, some of the smartest and most interesting people I have ever known are liberals.
SOME of them. LOL
October 14, 2009 at 7:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
hatchet buried:-)...
October 14, 2009 at 7:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Yes, the Russians were in quite the space race with us - they had the technology to easily expose it as a fraud had it been - and they most certainly would have, if they had detected thus.
I had kindof forgotten some of the gender slams you took initially - my apologies that slipped my mind. I like those new names. I should change mine to HypocritesNightmare LinkHellion or something like that - LOL.
I remember..... back in college.... you took your middle name, followed the name of the street you lived on, and that was your "porn" name........ LOL
October 14, 2009 at 7:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
"But there are plenty of conservatives out there who try to play the patriot card about nearly every single issue where there is opposition. Daily. Prominent ones. Whether you think they garner respect or not. I could list plenty more, those are just some of the more known ones."
I modified this but it does pertain and hold true to the fact this very same thing was going on during the last administration with the right, just painted a different color if you will.
"(You also forgot to mention that Hillary Clinton, Pres Carter, and the head of Germany apparently also garner about as much respect as Kanye West.)"
Nope I did not forget, these individuals are no where near the likes of people like Olberman, Garafalo, Beck, etc
October 14, 2009 at 7:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
"You can't win the I can post more links than you can to prove my point battle with open_eyes"
I can spew out hyper links with the best of them, the thing is that I have resigned to the conclusion that few will actually read them, ergo I view most topics a waste of my time, people are not going to change thier minds.
"We've never even seen the GOP equivalent of the idiot Gary Lukert articles here. "
I have seen quite a few editorials written that are in the ballpark, and witnessend quite a few posters that obviously subscribe to the counter of Lukert.
I like you open eyes admire people on both sides of the spectrum. But the populace around here seems to always attack the left, and it is warranted and justified at times, but when it is not I often chide in. I often wonder if the population around here turned blue overnight if the paper would turn red=)
October 14, 2009 at 7:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
In the words of that famous 20th century prophet:
"CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG"
October 14, 2009 at 9:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
I'm glad to see that open_eyes and biscuitboy have made up........I am also enjoying the sideswipe compliment :-D
October 14, 2009 at 9:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
And I totally agree - and have said so on these forums more than once - the Patriot card got used in much the same way. I asked then, and I ask again - for the same ones who think any disagreement with Obama is racial - (and YES, it HAS been stated on these boards by some people) - did you feel you had the right to disagree with Bush on the war without being branded as unpatriotic? Now, as goodoleboy said (and as I've already stated before) - the shoe is on the other foot..... and people quickly forget........
I don't feel that I've ever seen an article as dumb and ignorant as a Gary Lukert rant by anyone on the right. Posts/blogs, yes - an article, no. When someone get the Gazette to post an article stating all Democrats enjoy killing babies and old people then maybe I'll give some credence to that claim. We all know there are some posters at the extreme of both ends.
Here's a Gary Lukert snippet from "All Talk, No Walk" (NOT a blog - an article, published by the Gazette)
"Bush and McCain are war mongers! They love war ... bombing, killing innocent people! And the Republicans love it ... as Republicans, as a party, love to dominate weak people, women, old people, kids.
But, like most bullies, the bullies send others to do their dirty work: Witness — please tell me how many Republican senators and house members have served their country in the Military. In the Senate ... darn few! Close to hardly any! The House has a few More."
The funny thing about this rant is, I looked it up. At that time, in BOTH the House and Senate - there were more Republicans with military service than Dems.
What a blooming idiot.
Sometimes, people don't post any evidence to back up their claims...... because they can't really find any.
The populace around here often attacks the left because, at least while Patrick was a regular editorial writer, the vast majority of the editorials slanted far to the left. And apparently the majority still do. I think at one time during discussion about this same point I counted the last 11 editorials - 8 far left, 1 neutral, 2 right. Doesn't sound to me like equal opportunities are being given for the left to attack the right.......... I'd love to see a point/counterpoint type setup. Then both sides could have something to chew on - LOL
October 14, 2009 at 10:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Nothing is stopping you from writing an editorial.
October 14, 2009 at 10:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
And nothing is stopping you, or anyone else, either.
Besides, I don't think I could write one as stupid as Gary's from the right-wing slant even if I tried ;-). I've often wondered - why did/does the Gazette even print his drivel? Seems more than once I've read people here submitted editorials and they never got printed - hard to imagine anything more idiotic than Gary's.
But he always seems to get his through. Interesting.
October 14, 2009 at 10:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
In a way, posts here ARE (mini) editorials of a sort. And since the Gazette has a proclivity for printing left-slanting editorials, it's not surprising we see more from the opposing side........... or we wouldn't have any balance at all.........
October 14, 2009 at 10:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
These posts often get deleted, or in some cases the whole thread gets terminated. Can't depend on them to be here tommorrow.
"But he always seems to get his through. Interesting."
Assume a name and try something far fetched, see what happens, consider it an experiment.
October 14, 2009 at 11:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
I also wonder how many people actually read all of the links that are posted all the time.....I have often admitted that I don't. I will click on ones that are presented as funny...interesting in a general knowledge sort of way.....or presenting some music or other art I would like to see. But I rarely click on political links.
The main reason I don't is precisely because they are political links....and as such are almost always presented with a slant. Weather that be left, right, anarchist, or moonwalkest....the slant is there. Because of that they are often much more akin to propaganda than fact.
Another reason I don't bother with political links is more personal. If I want to know what prominent politicians....or political hacks....or saying I will turn on my TV or read a good newspaper or magazine. When I'm on the forum what I want to know is what you think...and I want to offer my opinion as well. I see this as a vehicle for all of us to share our thoughts and feelings....not to just spew out the work of some highly paid....usually very biased hack.
People that bother to read my ramblings are getting my personal thoughts...as of course they are shaped by outside influences. When I am happiest...is when I get your personal thoughts in return.
October 15, 2009 at 6:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
I think we make a mistake when we try to present forums like this one as discussions of fact. In the first place "fact" is often a relative thing...in the second.....few of us have the time, knowledge, or dispositions to search out volumes of fact. These forums...in my opinion....are just that....opinions.
From a newspapers point of view.....as I recall my journalism 101.....an editorial is the same thing. That is why they are always printed in the same location of the paper.....are always labeled as editorials......and are almost always signed by the person who wrote them. Letters to the editor....The People Speak....as its called in the Gazette....are also the opinion of the person that wrote them...not of the newspaper. Hence Gary Lukert had to sign his name to his rants to distinguish them from the opinion of the newspaper. A good newspaper will make some effort to insure that letter writers are writing under their real name and will limit access to a time period such as say one letter per month or less.
But both these vehicles....like this forum...are an expression of individual opinion. And you know what they say.....opinions are like A**holes....everybody has one.
October 15, 2009 at 6:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Yes, quite often links are to other political opinion pieces. But often not. Often to simple news stories. Also studies, surveys, etc.
I was admonished a time or 2 by goodoleboy for often posting the relevant parts of a linked story along with the link, since I didn't think alot of people bothered to follow the link. Now he's saying he doesn't bother because nobody follows the links. Make up your freakin' mind, will ya? - LOL
True your last statement, biscuitboy. Also true when you "assume" I am going to respond, and in a certain way (as you've recently done a couple of times). You know what they say about when someone "assumes"..... ;-)
October 15, 2009 at 8:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
tis true....tis true......open-eyes....and I stand guilty as charged. :-)
October 15, 2009 at 8:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
I also have no desire to add to the insanity by trying something "far-fetched". So if you see some article "out there".... it won't be from me ;-)
October 15, 2009 at 8:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Just one more link,
http://www.thelastoutpost.com/site/13...
Just had to give you this link !
October 15, 2009 at 8:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Sorry, guys that link is not working, so try this one,http://www.apfn.org/apfn/moon.htm !
October 15, 2009 at 8:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
giggles (anonymous) says...
Hey, I don't normally add links, but found this terribly interesting. A bigger waste of our money than kicking up some dust on the moon, and it will cost more...
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/s...
October 15, 2009 at 9:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
"I was admonished a time or 2 by goodoleboy for often posting the relevant parts of a linked story along with the link, since I didn't think alot of people bothered to follow the link. Now he's saying he doesn't bother because nobody follows the links. Make up your freakin' mind, will ya? - LOL"
Walls of text and this forum do not mix. And the reason I rarely bother anymore is all to often I post a link, then someone replies having clearly not read it, then we end up right back at square one with walls of text on this forum. The format is just horrible.
October 15, 2009 at 4:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Which is why, often, when I post a link I also print just some of the more relevant parts of it. So 1) Someone doesn't have to read the entire link, or follow it) and 2) If there is enough there to spark their interest they may follow the link and read the rest for themselves. I try to shorten and put just the most interesting parts but sometimes that is not easy to do.
If walls of text and this forum do not mix, the next time you reply to someone, could you just cut/paste a small part of their post that you are specifically referencing instead of their whole garshdarn 10 paragraphs as you often do? Thx ;-)
October 15, 2009 at 5:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )