Against one's interests
Douglas B. McGaw - Emporia
Saturday, November 28, 2009
There are sometimes good reasons for voting against one’s self-interest. For example, voting for a tax on practices that pollute the environment may hit one’s pocketbook but make sense from the long-term perspective. This would be an example of voting for the greater good, possibly at the expense of one’s monetary interests, and could be considered a commendable thing to do.
And then there are those who vote against their interests for no good reason. In this area we could include voting against stem-cell research, meaningful healthcare reform, or measures to improve the environment. Almost always the reasons for doing so are misguided beliefs that these things will negatively impact one’s future or finances, where continuing the current practices will not. These beliefs are fed by vested moneyed interests that oppose any change to the status quo ante. Voting against these kinds of reforms is supporting the existing power structure rather than one’s own self interest.
In short, one can vote against one’s interest for the greater COMMON good, or one can do so for the greater CORPORATE good. The two are mutually exclusive because the former is actually in one’s interest in the long term, while the latter is truly against one’s self interest — unless one’s self is a corporate bigwig.
Someday the reactionaries that reflexively oppose any change may come to realize their error (just as years ago the pro-slavery proponents had to change their tune), but it cannot happen soon enough when it comes to the environment, nuclear arms reduction, or health care.
Douglas B. McGaw
Emporia
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
Go to Alex Jones "Fall of the Republic" Full Length movie 2 hours 24 minutes. Most people for the first time claim to be independent. This Alex Jones is rather profound. Some of the things he talks about would make you think he was nuts and then 6 months later you discover it was true. 9 out of 10 cities are having economic problems so, this is not the time to put more pressure on the small businessman because these folks are the lifeblood of the whole economic system.
November 28, 2009 at 12:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Reactionaries that reflexively oppose any change......hmmmm.....sound familiar?
November 28, 2009 at 1:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
Google Hackers Steal Electronic Data from top climate research center. This exposes the hoax. Google the subject, it wasn't the Google Hackers. Last year the globle warming committee had to cancel their meeting---it was to cold and icy.
November 28, 2009 at 4:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
For mainstreet America the stimulus isn't working. We can't spend our way out of this double dip recession. The best Healthcare program for the economy is to put a halt to the cancer of spending.
November 28, 2009 at 4:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Hmmmmm
November 28, 2009 at 4:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
E_PLURIBUS_UNUM (anonymous) says...
Feliz Navidad !
November 28, 2009 at 6:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
Observation, now I know why they call you observation--You are very good at it.
November 28, 2009 at 9:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
Observation I wish I had your powers of deduction or what ever because I agree with you.
Having said that, I am assuming you understand the ramblings of the man that wrote this op. ed.
Douglas
Call me a dumb ass or what ever but as far as I'm concerned I really didn't understand a word of what you printed.
After reading it at least 7 times I think you may be for Al Gore's global warming theory or for Barry's health care plan.
But here again call me a dumb ass because I'm not sure.
I would personally like for you to explain to a old farm boy just what in the hell you're are really talking about.
What tax practices would pollute the environment? What is wrong with voting against something that would negatively impact my future?
To me voting for the greater common good sounds a little communistic.
Voting for the corporate good sounds like capitalism.
The last time I checked capitalism beats communism every time.
Corporations may not be right every time, but I'd rather put my money into a corporation than the government any day of the week. At least the corporation is trying to make a profit and I don't believe the government ever has.
November 28, 2009 at 9:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
Google Lew Rockwell.com Doug Casey on global warming.
November 28, 2009 at 9:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
Google Inhofe Announces Climategate Investigation.
The Republicans had Watergate, the Democrats had Climategate and Tailgate.
November 28, 2009 at 10:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
If one goes to the following site, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8LPNR... and watches the video " Fall of the Republic " , one might just realize that the U.S. is no longer a country steeped in capitalisim or communisim, but a country that has become " elitisim " in nature, run and ruled by " elitists " for the sole good of " elitism" and those who are " elitists " .
However the video is 2 hours and 24 minutes long !
November 28, 2009 at 10:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
Methusla, I have watched the fall of the Republic 5 times. My goal is to watch it 16 times. Please google Lew Rockwell.com Diagnosing our Health Care by Ron Paul.
November 28, 2009 at 10:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
please google Ron Paul: Healthcare is not a right. According to Dr. Ron Paul the Healthcare bill could cost 3 Trillion Dollars.
November 28, 2009 at 10:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
Please google American Free Press.Net Chaos Manipulation a forte of global Elite.
November 28, 2009 at 11:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Are we back to that argument again......that the common good [read mans] rightful place is to serve as grist in the material grist mill of capitalism [read corporations]. I find it very amusing that the only people that make that argument are the ones whose ego has somehow convinced them that they are somehow leaders of the pack. Dream on...the corporate world thinks no more of you than it does me.
November 29, 2009 at 3:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Please Google my grandmother's house.
November 29, 2009 at 3:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
The corporate elite have only two concerns.....one is profit....the other is keeping all the profit for themselves. Just exactly how that makes them such wonderful caretakers of my well-being is beyond me. I personally find it much harder to make any sense out of what you three are saying than I do understanding Mr Mcgaw. Methusla...you are not included in "you three".
November 29, 2009 at 5:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
reddog
So the global warming committee had to cancel their meeting because it was too cold and icy.....this year I was able to play golf for three days in a row around Thanksgiving......So big deal! In fact my brother played golf in Michigan on one of those days.....so even bigger deal!
November 29, 2009 at 6:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
USNretired (anonymous) says...
Until Siberia thaws out, the world is still in an Ice Age. Warming is normal at the end of an Ice Age. Many people foolishly think electric cars and such are more eco-friendly and efficient. Every energy conversion results in loss (simple thermodynamics), Burning fossil fuel to make electricity and then converting that to chemical storage in a battery and then, and only then, converting that to mechanical energy is very dirty and inefficient compared to burning fossil fuel in a car and going directly to mechanical energy. this and many other lies are printed every day to convince naive, ignorant, or just lazy folks who would rather prove PT Barnum right than learn.
November 29, 2009 at 7:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Burn Baby Burn
Drill Baby Drill
November 29, 2009 at 8:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
What you conveniently leave out of your equation is solar conversion, wind conversion, geothermal conversion, etc. None of which are viable at present, and as long as we continue to Burn Baby Burn...Drill Baby Drill.....won't ever be. Then we remain stuck with the finite problematic fossil fuel source you are so proud of.
November 29, 2009 at 8:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
I left out another fuel source that I believe we should be developing rather than discouraging......nuclear. Surprise, surprise....This LIBERAL believes we should be developing more reliance on nuclear energy.
November 29, 2009 at 8:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
I'm not arguing against the need to increase the efficiency of conversion and I realize that wind and solar will probably never be viable for commercial scale production. But if their use on a personal or small cooperative level was encouraged rather than discouraged they could go a long way towards reducing the commercial demand.
But therein lies the rub. The commercial producers don't want to give up any of their share of the market because that might reduce profitability. So once again the corporate good wins out over the common good. But as I am driven to the poor house by high energy cost I can revel in the knowledge that at least its not communist.
November 29, 2009 at 10:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
Bisquitboy how do you feel about the cap and trade bill?
November 29, 2009 at 10:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Anyone that thinks you can put 6 billion+ on this planet burning up billions of carcinogens and not adversely effect the environment, well… I have some beachfront property in Arizona for you!
I remember once upon a time when space junk was not a concern because it was… space. Now we have a real problem with satellites and missions getting pelted with the stuff. I for one would rather see us figure out alternatives to feeding the middle east billions every year on oil, combating global warming and going to renewable fuels is part of that, win win if you asked me.
I guess being proactive about a problem is bad thing, consequently if you want to talk costs, take a few project management courses and see how costs skyrocket when you are not proactive.
November 29, 2009 at 10:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
"Until Siberia thaws out, the world is still in an Ice Age. Warming is normal at the end of an Ice Age."
___________________________________________________
You realize that by definition we are in one until there is no ice left? Furthermore if you are implying that all ice melts and this is natural then we sure as hell better get busy preparing and moving everything on our coasts back to prepare for the inevitable rising seas that will happen, unless of course you can look into your crystal ball and tell us when the ice will stop melting LOL!
November 29, 2009 at 10:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
For those of you that think voting for the corperate elite is a good thing, you better eat those bailouts with pride!
November 29, 2009 at 10:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
The recognized end of all previous ice ages occurred at times when human habitation on this planet was minimal to non- existent. To act like the melting of the ice caps now would just be business as usual as USNRetired implied is naive at best and downright foolish at worst.
Cap and Trade while ripe with potential problems is preferable to burn baby burn until there are none of us left to care.
November 29, 2009 at 11:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Just a little FYI for those that think Barry's healthcare plan is such a bad thing:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/...
Also I am curious, with all the anti spending and no taxes rhetoric why is it always domestic programs that are under fire from the right when tax increases are on the way to pay for war, nevermind the trillions down the tube already, and what exactly do we have to show for that one again?
http://www.politico.com/politico44/
November 29, 2009 at 11:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Observation,
Let me ask you this. Ingenuity and entrepreneurial spirit are foundations of capitalism, with any change of doing business there are winners and losers, that with the foresight to strike while the iron is hot and those that don’t and wish to hell they did. Are you more upset just because it is people you don’t like? Would it be just fine by you if the conservatives were leading this charge and stood to profit? By your logic if someone solved cold fusion tomorrow they would not be capitalists, you’re blinded by the status quo. I surmise it will take a disaster of epic proportions to wake you up the fact that humans are in fact impacting the environment. Think of a virus and it's lifecycle, we are very comparable in those terms.
November 29, 2009 at 11:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
But goodoleboy war is a good thing......its spending money to help Americans right here at home that is evil. That's the creed of the far right wing nuts. That is of course unless that American that is being helped is them.....business subsidies and banking bailouts are always a good thing.
November 29, 2009 at 11:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Exactly......he can't stand the thought that Al Gore might stand to make money with GE......But if it was one of his conservative heroes he would be trumpeting the triumph of capitalism over the forces of socialism. Give me a break!
November 29, 2009 at 11:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Dick Cheney never stood to profit from Haliburton, oh wait..... he could never influence policy that might enhance his business interested... oh wait
How many politicians have done this? right and left? Why is Gore being singled out here? Hell I own stock in GE, I stand to profit from their gain, that make me not a capitalist if I own stock and believe a certain way? Give me a break!
November 29, 2009 at 11:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
Bisquitboy in your earlier post you made reference to being driven to the poor house by high energy costs.
In speeches that Barry made while running for office openly said that cap and trade would raise everyones energy bill $3000/yr.
While the rest of the world follows a pied piper to to the tune of global warming some of us are begining to hear and see prominent scientists rebut the warming theory.
I to would like to see something happen to get us of of the imported oil wagon but I don't see cap and trade doing anything to help that.
If you are anti capitalist the cap and trade bill is going to hurt us and energy companies but look at the opportunities for all those greedy Wall streeters when they start trading the carbon rights on the stock exchange.
November 29, 2009 at 11:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
The $3000 a year figure was a right wing claim, and a false one:
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/05/cap-...
As far as scientists go on global warming I hedge my bets with the %80-90. Or is that not enough?
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_release...
November 29, 2009 at 11:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Observation,
I tend to think Nuclear power is what we should be doing on a mass scale while we while transition into other means. Building Nuke plants =stimulus and job creation, plus long term jobs in operating them. Oh drat! That does not sound very liberal now does it? The only thing I wish to expose is to try and make the best choices regardless of partisianship, something you cannot claim.
November 29, 2009 at 12:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
I to like the idea of nuclear power.
As for the false claim of $3000. Well I must have been hypnotized by the great one when he was making a campaign speech and used that number.
November 29, 2009 at 12:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
It's not hard at all to get confused, I'm guilty of it myself. Sticking to non-partisian sites such as factcheck.org help clear the fog and allow for one to make up their own mind instead of having to swallow a party line.
November 29, 2009 at 12:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
What I was refering to is that I heard him say it.
Therefore I would not be following a party line.
As for factcheck or whatever, anyone can print anything, it just depends on who in the media you chose to believe.
You know the old saying.
Figures never lie and liars never figure.
November 29, 2009 at 12:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
So tbluma if you admit to picking and choosing data that fits your preconceived notions...then quit trying to convince me that your data is somehow accurate and beyond reproach.
November 29, 2009 at 1:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
I find it amusing that both of us so-called LIBERALS have no problem breaking with LIBERAL ideology to support nuclear power while our conservative counter parts.....entrenched in their own ideology......accuse us of being close-minded. Go figure!
November 29, 2009 at 1:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
I'm not picking and choosing nor am I trying to convince you of anything. However I heard what I heard and I seen what I seen.
November 29, 2009 at 2:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Observation,
You do realize that I posted factcheck.org not fastcheck.org. right? Do you also realize you are relying on information from anonymous bloggers who failed to post any logical reason how and why they came to their conclusions. Finally the cherry on top, http://www.freerepublic.com/home.htm is the equivilent of the http://www.dailykos.com/ and is so far right I would take anything they say with a grain of salt.
In conclusion, you have done nothing here but confuse people, have not presented one shred of factual information that you claim(hell have the time you failed to even get the hyperlink right)
Factcheck.org is used by CNN,Fox News, etc on a rountine basis. Every article is sourced out and cited, they present raw factual information, not opinions, which quite frankly is all you have here. You try so very hard to make a liberal out everyone that does not see your same point of view, yet you fail so miserably I can't help but not respond to you in order to be entertained by next trainwreck Lol.
PS If am a liberal then you would do well not agree with me, you know the whole guilt by association thing?
Quoted from this article:
http://emporiagazette.com/news/2009/o...
"goodoleboy;
I believe in your few issues, mostly anyway"
This was on issues such as gay marriage, abortion and such. Are we a closet safe hating liberal? Or are you just a hypocrite?
November 29, 2009 at 2:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
Gee goodoleboy you sure are testy today.
November 29, 2009 at 4:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Still trying to shove what you do not understand into your little boxes, is the word independent even in your vocab? Everything I see you post is liberal this, conservative that, simply astounding.
Did you realize that the Reagan's used to spend their New Year's eve with the ANNENBERG's? Guess that makes them dirty liberal hippies too eh?
Still have an open challenge if you want to start disproving the work that is done with actual fact instead of just interjecting that association or even remote connections to certain people invalidate everything that is done. Hell damn near everything in politics crosses paths at some point.
"I hear that train a coming" - Johnny Cash
November 29, 2009 at 10:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
"Gee goodoleboy you sure are testy today."
My patience for his ignorance grows thin at times, hell if read the thread I posted he is agreeing with me at one point then railing me for being a liberal the next lol, I'm starting to think the feller is bi polar
November 29, 2009 at 10:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Well Geee, I don't really know which discussion to get in on, who is or isn' t Liberal or Conservative or Independent or Libertarian, etc. and I really don' t want to !
So I guess I will comment on " Energy " ! The big problem with Nuclear energy is, what to do with the neculear waste generated, that may have a half life of 3000 years ! It has been said that Wind and Solar is inefficent ! Oil is expensive and won' t last for too much longer and the profits from it is used to fund terrorism by some and wars have been started because of it ! Speculation says that natural gas will last for possibly 100 years in the U.S. . So I guess that only leaves 3 alternatives, methane, geothermal and " Hot Air " !
You know, Methane being the gas produced by rotting garbage, human and animal waste and human and animal " rearend " gas ! Geothermal being that heat which is produced by Mother Earth herself ! And you/we/us on these forums, along with most politicians producing enough hot air, to power something, I would think !
November 29, 2009 at 11:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Nuclear fuel can be reprocessed, it is done in Europe right now. Shale oil is also a possibility, but so far refinery of it is expensive, the upside for the US is that we hold the largest reserves in the world.
November 30, 2009 at 12:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
There are many possibilities that exist out there and a combination of several of them will probably light our future. But as long as the only answer we can see is Burn Baby Burn and Drill Baby Drill the research and development money to realize any of them will not be forthcoming. And as long as some view any answer but theirs as nothing more than a LIBERAL fantasy we may be doomed to ride this horse to our doom. And that is what Mr Mcgaw was getting at in his letter.
November 30, 2009 at 3:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Methusla's right on about one thing.......there is enough hot air produced on this forum to power Emporia for awhile. Hell Observation himself could keep us going for a few decades. :-).......Put me down for a couple of decades more and we are on our way.
November 30, 2009 at 4:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Still waiting to hear how conservatives want to solve our energy problems, I have heard the liberal points, but I am having a hard time finding anything ambitious on the conservative side to tackle the problem, at this point I would have settled for taking all of Iraq's oil for liberating them, we free them and they sell to the Chinese....gratitude in motion!
November 30, 2009 at 5:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
The big oil companies are the problem here. They are walking a tightrope. On the one hand they know probably better than the rest of us when the end will come for oil. On the other hand they are scared to death something or somebody will beat them to the punch with the development of a viable alternative thereby depriving them of the opportunity to extract every last drop of blood from the consumer before their cash cow dries up.So they talk one game and play another in their relentless pursuit of profit above all else. But for those of us who view the corporate elite as god-like and have bought into their gospel that they are the only ones with our best interest at heart......it becomes impossible to separate the wheat from the chaff. Those "those of us" are called conservatives.
November 30, 2009 at 5:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
I will most likely set off a fire storm of Liberal, Conservative, etc., finger pointing, etc., with my next comment, but here goes anyway !
I now that I am going to sound like a broken record, but as long as the U.S., its government, its policy and law makers, are run, or controlled if you will, by the wealthy, greedy, profiteering, individuals, corporations, etc. and greedy, corrupt, unethical congressmen/congresswomen are allowed to practice their " elitist " rule of the U.S., unabated and it makes no difference whether they be Democrat, Republican, Conservative, Liberal, Libertarian, or whatever you want to call them, this country will still be mired in the same old business of only favoring or doing what the wealthy, greedy, elite, profiteering individuals and corporations want or dictate !
And again I repeat, the U.S. is and has not been " A country of the people, by the people, for the people " for quite a while now, but rather has become, " A nation for the few elite privileged people, of the few privileged people and by those few elite privileged people " and will continue to be the latter as long as the majority of the rest of the not so privileged elite people allow this travisty to continue unabated !
If one were to think about the heirarchy of who controls this countrys government, the dictating of government policy, the laws of the land, etc., and think about it with an open mind, one might just come to realize that this country is actually run, not so much differently than the European Monarchies of past history ! In fact one might even think to call the U.S. a Constitutional Monarchy !
Wheeeeewwww, theres about two or three decades of hot air for Emporia.
November 30, 2009 at 4:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
methusla
I agree with much of what you say about the ruling elite and recognize as well that it is neither conservative or liberal or any other moniker you want to put on it. I also could give a rats rearend who started it first or who did what to whom. But as long as the ruling elite you speak of can keep us at each others throats with our two party warfare and our ideological finger pointing of the type you so often see on these boards we will neither have clear vision enough to see the real culprits.,....or the will to fight them when we do.
So lets all just keep pointing our fingers at each other and ignoring the truth while the corporate and intellectual elite of the country continue to rape and plunder both sides for their own selfish interest.
November 30, 2009 at 5:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
You know I am reminded once again of the fellow I talked to last fall. He was a elderly man living on social security.....living in a rent subsidized apartment......eating subsidized food.....and having no medical insurance other that Medicaid. He was watching Hannity on Fox (so called) News....and railing on about how Obama was going to take from the rich and give to the poor. I asked him...."But aren't you poor......would you rather he take from the poor and give to the rich?" His only response was to look at me in disbelief and say....."You must be a LIBERAL". Go Figure!
November 30, 2009 at 6:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
Sometimes the elderly are wise beyond thier means.
November 30, 2009 at 7:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Perhaps if he really feels that way he could do the noble thing and go skydiving without a parachute.
December 1, 2009 at 2:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
That was kinda my thought goodoleboy. If he was so concerned about the unfortunate rich having to dip into their deep pockets to pay for all the government subsidized help he was receiving as a poor person....why didn't he give them the break he obviously felt like they deserved and pull the plug on himself. Apparently that would have made observation and tbluma happy also and it would be nice to see them happy for once.
December 1, 2009 at 3:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Speaking of government corruption:
http://www.transparency.org/policy_re...
When measured against the rest of the world we are not horrible, things could be better, what surprised me was just how far down the ladder China and India were.
December 1, 2009 at 9:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
What surprised me [not really] was how many of the countries that scored much better than us on lack of corruption were those so-called socialist countries of Scandinavia and Europe. I would have thought from what I hear on these boards that socialist countries would be at the bottom of the list. Instead...the countries at the bottom were almost all those anarchist counties with little or no federal governments. I wonder how that could be....NOT....
December 1, 2009 at 11:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
biscuitboy
You took the words right out of my mouth !
December 1, 2009 at 4:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Also the following site is worth taking a look at, however it is a large and informative site and takes a little time to down load the different info files. http://www.transparency.org/policy_re.... The bpi at the end of the address stands for " bribe payers index" .
December 1, 2009 at 4:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
I wonder how reddog and others explain this apparent disconnect whereby the most socialistic countries have the least amount of government corruption......while the countries with the weakest federal governments have the highest amount of it?
December 1, 2009 at 7:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
The information on the bribe payers index site was also interesting and enlightening. Especially interesting to me were the types of businesses most likely to pay bribes. I see the United States fairs better on this index that on the corruption model. Could it be we are more willing to accept bribes than we are to offer them. Interesting!
December 2, 2009 at 7:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
biscuitboy
In order to get a full understanding and picture of the bpi report, one needs to download the full report in pdf format, study it, look at all the info, graphs, etc., to get a full picture of where the U.S. stands, or ranks as far as bribes paid or accepted, especially the secton on business and government.
But to get a full picture of bribery, one will need to study the whole report, it is quite enlightening !
In fact, I think everyone should take a look at this full bpi report.
December 2, 2009 at 8:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Also of interest is the pdf download of the 2009 Global Corruption Barometer, which also has some interesting views, and info ! These rreports all take some time to study and assimilate the info contained in them, so if you do not have the time to educate yourself as to the problem of bribery that exists, in the U.S. or world wide and is a world wide problem, then these reports are not something you would like to see !
December 2, 2009 at 8:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )