open_eyes (anonymous) says...

"Sen Chris Dodd (D-Conn) told CNN on Wednesday that he was responsible for language added to the stimulus bill to make sure that already-existing contracts for bonuses at companies receiving federal bailout money were honored.

A Treasury Department official admitted to CNN earlier that the Obama administration had pushed for the language."

Observation, remember who it is that wrote this article. The same nut that ranted awhile back about how Republicans love war and like to kill babies & old people.

March 20, 2009 at 3:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

djdiablo (anonymous) says...

I think that this is pretty much what we can expect to get when we have a congress that passes bills that they admittedly did not have the time to read under pressure from the president himself to do so. When, when, when will people realize that the business of government is business and elected officials should at least have the rudimentary basics of supply/demand down pat before they even run for office, let alone after they’re elected?

Imagine you’d been hired from a rival company and promised the bonus, only to be told by congress that they’re going to tax 90 % of it? Imagine being asked to give it back?

I wouldn’t. Its business and that was the deal. If congress wants to recoup the money, every one of them that signed this unread bill should forgo their salary until the bonus money is paid back in full.

Start putting the blame where the blame rests. As we slip and slide our way down into a socialist state, get used to this sort of thing. Our only hope is that there are mid-term elections in about two years.

March 20, 2009 at 3:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Bjnemp (anonymous) says...

America: the land of opportunity. Or so it used to be. Our nation became the strongest and most prosperous on earth due to our system of capitalism which allowed people with drive, ambition, and hard work to not only succeed, but become wealthy beyond wildest dreams.

But that was back in the gool ol' pre-Obama days, when we were the USA. Now we are The United Socialsit States of America where the successful and prosperous are suddenly villians to be vilified and punished.

Government isn't the solution to our problem. Government is the problem.

March 20, 2009 at 4:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/...

or

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/...

At least Congress voted to "not take" their automatic pay raise next year. However, to quote the article:

"Instead of being forced to vote whenever they want to give themselves raises, Congress is holding to a system in which they only vote when they don’t want raises. Hard to beat that deal."

March 20, 2009 at 6:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

Well, well, well, we can certainly see what a great idea laissez-faire economics has been over the past 8 years. Oh sure, laissez-faire, or no government interference in the marketplace. Nobody was watching the marketplace and the bankers ripped everybody off. This country was hardly prosperous before Obama came along. Bush had a big hand in the bailouts too. Rusty memories so soon?

March 20, 2009 at 7:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

Incidentally, open_eyes, it's nice to see you again. Thought I'd let you know that it's almost time for the basil planting festival. Benvenuti primavera!

March 20, 2009 at 7:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

Nice to see you again also, create. But I'm wondering about your "rusty" memory. If memory serves me, (and it does) - it was actually regulations put into place during Clinton's term forcing banks to make unsecured loans, with Obama right in the midst of making sure that happened that started the dominoes falling. Reference "regulations" that punished banks and lending institutions that didn't show enough loans to underqualified people. Somebody TRIED to watch the marketplace, in 2003, and again in 2005, they TRIED to ADD regulation specifically to Fannie & Freddie, but they got blocked. By people that were re-elected easily. I'm sure Chris Dodd will do just fine also next election. Probably because he "has good hair", or is more likeable, or some similar serious assessment of his abilities as a politician - LOL.

But do we have to go thru all that again? Does your memory rust that fast? Here's an article titled "The Sub-Prime Mortgage Crisis: Where Did It All Start?" that will shed a little more light on some "rust" for you...

http://neultra.blogspot.com/2008/11/s...

or

http://www.sundriesshack.com/2008/09/...

Now, as I have said before, I think this was well-intentioned, and we SHOULD do something to give some help to the less-advantaged, up to a point. So I'm not putting all the blame on Clinton's admin, nor am I letting Bush's admin off the hook. They both played their part, and/or failed to correct it when they had the chance. Guilty, both of them. But, let's get our facts straight, our ducks in a row, and "shake off a little rust", shall we?

March 20, 2009 at 10:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

As for the bailouts, I was never for them. But, did you also forget this?

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?...

"U.S. President George Bush said Monday President-elect Barack Obama hasn't asked him to seek the second half of the funds designated for economic recovery.

"I don't intend to make the request" for $350 billion of the $700 billion package approved to help unfreeze credit markets unless Obama asks, Bush said in a wide-ranging, candid and final news conference of his presidency.

Bush said he and Obama, who takes over Jan. 20, have discussed the matter. "I told him that if he felt that he needed the $350 billion, I would be willing to ask for it -- in other words, if he felt like it needed to happen on my watch," Bush said.

Reflecting on the recession that is ending his tenure, Bush said, "I inherited a recession and I am leaving on a recession."

"I readily concede I chucked aside my free-market principles when I was told ... "

(Yes, he did. And he realizes it. At least he had enough class speaking in Canada last week to NOT criticize Obama).

And then later:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireSt...

"Acting at Barack Obama's behest, President George W. Bush on Monday asked Congress for the final $350 billion in the financial bailout fund, effectively ceding economic reins to the president-elect in an extraordinary display of transition teamwork. Obama also sharply criticized Bush's handling of the money and promised radical changes."

Rusty memories so soon?

By the way, while we're speaking of rusty memories, when everyone was complaining about Rush hoping Obama's policies failed, did everyone forget that a poll in 2006 showed that 51% of Democrats said they hoped that Bush failed?

What this country needs is for it to rain Rust-O-Leum for about 40 days and 40 nights, me thinks - LOL

On another note, I'm pretty interested in those upside-down tomato thingy's they advertise on TV alot. Might try that this spring.... now you've got my gardening fever started, create - :)

March 20, 2009 at 10:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

1469 (anonymous) says...

Bottom line the government should have never got involved. And Obama is a joke.

March 21, 2009 at 8:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

Sorry to be so simple, but if Clinton's admin made the new "hands off" policy, I'd think Bush adminners would have somehow seen the mistake of such a policy and done something to correct it instead of letting the deficit grow to the point of having to construct bailouts.

Yes, Obama's admin is adding deficit in order to correct things, and it worries me, but I can see the reasoning. Only time will tell. In the meantime, buckle up!

It's so easy to jump on here and type that Obama is a joke. That's just running off at the mouth and plain disrespect of the office of the president. And whoever said they wished Bush to fail are guilty of the same thing. If the president fails, whether Bush or Obama or any president, we all fail. People must be blind if they can't see that.

open_eyes, don't bother spending on those upside-down tomato thingies. Plants grow toward the sunlight, and while it's true that gravity will cause the tomatoes to hang, the plants don't grow as vigorously as they would in the garden. Besides, everytime you water, dirt comes out. Tell you what, save your money. If you must have a container, get yourself a couple of 5-gallon buckets (free at Reebles north if you ask at the bakery and they have some). Knock a few holes in the sides on the bottom one-third for drainage. Fill the buckets with dirt and potting soil and plant a seedling. I suggest Jetstar since they grow really well in Kansas. One plant per bucket. Be ready to stake them when they grow larger. Tomatoes love sun. I will be planting Jetstars and Purple Cherokees this year.

Get your canning jars early. Looks like lots of people will be planting gardens this year. Good luck to them all. Me? I refuse to participate in a recession.

Sorry to hijack the thread, folks, but spring is here. Toodles.

March 23, 2009 at 10:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

create, that is the part you are missing. Clinton did NOT create the "hands-off" policy. They ADDED regulation to FORCE banks to make bad loans. Go back and read closer thru the links - the gov added regulation in this case. If these regulations had not been added, and "free-market" policies had continued, do you think banks would have started making risky loans, or would they have continued to use existing standards? If not for all these risky loans & foreclosures, would our financials be in the mess they are today?
And I agree in part what you said about Bush - they DID see the mistake. There were PLENTY of people warning about it. Are you again missing the part where they warned & tried to ADD regulation to Fannie & Freddie in 2003? THAT is where Bush failed - he should have pushed harder and forced it thru. But, as we've said before, nobody wanted to be the "bad guy" and nix the housing boom in the bud. As Rove said when O'Reilly pushed him on that same question. And, of course, our good buddy Barney Frank claimed there was nothing wrong with Fannie & Freddie, & it was just the bad ole' Republicans trying to make the rich richer & the poor poorer. And of course he gets easily re-elected. Yeah, I blame Bush too - he was ALL for the housing boom in his early years, and when he finally decided this was going to end badly, he made a meager attempt and then gave up. But I ALSO put a lion's share of the blame on those who STARTED this, and Barney Frank & company to LIED to continue it. Or were just plain ignorant & stupid. Which, of course, gets you re-elected handily.

How does all this continually go right by you and others over and over? It's like every month people completely forget all this, and they fall back into their "it's all Bush's fault" mentality....... goodness.......

If you think it is so disrespectful of the office of the President, then where were you during the last 8 years? Were you chastising those who said much worse things about Bush, or were you one of them? Think hard back about things you've written now...... 51% of Democrats wanted Bush to fail, but I don't remember hearing a single peep out of you or any other liberal on these boards, not one single time. And I remember LOTS of things said about Bush LOTS worse. But you were ALL silent........... now you complain...... hmmm.....

But I still do NOT want socialism to succeed. Our founders built a Republic, not a socialist state, and in my view, anyone, who is out to destroy that and change us into a socialist state is Un-American and Un-Patriotic. And if that shoe fits the President then I feel the same way about him also.

My problem is, too many little ground squirrels/chipmunks constantly eating my tomatoes. I thought maybe hanging them this way would at least keep them safe..... I prefer a smaller crop of tomatoes that I get to eat, than finding half-eaten ones every morning.... LOL

March 23, 2009 at 12:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

Also, create, if you "see the reasoning for the deficit", then go back and see what FDR's own treasury secretary said before Congress in 1939 about how well all the spending & running up the deficit worked. I've posted it before.

Also check out the FDR library itself - go to

http://www.fdrlibrary.marist.edu/depr...

and click on the link "Did the New Deal end the Great Depression?"

March 23, 2009 at 12:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

If Bush would have pushed to secure the Fannie/Freddie mess as hard as Obama is pushing now, maybe our mess wouldn't be as bad as it is now. But he gave up. It wasn't just Iraq. There are 24 hours in the day. We've seen more of Obama since January 20 than we did of Bush for practically the entire 8 years.

I fully agree with you on the reason why no one, including Bush admin, wanted to burst the bubble that was going on. You certainly didn't hear everyday people screaming and yelling like they are now. Instead, many people I know were discussing the $ per share of their mutual funds. Fickle people!!! Does it take something as big as the AIG debacle to get their attention?

Remember Day Traders? Those guys were making tons of money overnight. Now those traders and hedge fund guys and everyone else are scared so they, like the rest of us, are hanging on to their money.

The market is going up as I type this. It could have something to do with Obama's appearance on 60 Minutes last night. But there is so much risk, so much risk.

I don't know about you, but I have 2 CD's maturing in the next 60 days. Damn! There goes all my basil profits. My tax dollars are going for these bailouts, and on top of that, the interest rates on my CD's are tanking big time. So I'm singing "I'm a loooooooser" as I till up my basil garden. And have you priced seed? A package of peaches and cream corn was $5.99 last year. It's 7.99 today.

Sorry about critters getting your tomatoes. You may have to cage them -- the tomatoes, not the critters. LOL. At any rate, when the time comes, and your tomatoes are tanking, let me know and I'll share some of mine. Uh oh, does that make me a socialist???? Oh my.

Don't ask me how Barney Frank got re-elected. Blind constituents I guess. He and Chris Dodd need to be ridden out of D.C. I've heard a few politicos say Dodd committed political suicide the other day with his weaseling. Time will tell. But I'm very unhappy about all the partisan politics being played in D.C. right now, especially in view of this giant problem we are experiencing. Maybe the people need to march closer to the Capital.

Over all, what is the better thing to do about a tanking economy? Just let it all go? Even in the very beginning, before any of the bailouts, should businesses have been allowed to simply fail and people lose their jobs and homes and property values and we plummet into a depression? Something had to be done. Do you think Wall Street and Big Business would have pulled themselves out of all this? Not as deeply hedged as they were.

The market is up as Wall Street a feeding frenzy. I'm watching the Dow as I write this. I'll bet it makes 500 points today. 4 minutes till the closing bell and its at 475...481...497........501 at the bell!!!!! Highest since November. What's going on? Whose fault is this??? Whose idea is the "Toxic Asset Plan" Hmmmmmmmm???????

March 23, 2009 at 3:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

Maybe if Obama hadn't pushed so hard back in the 90's to force banks to make under-secured loans, we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.

Must be nice to turn a complete 180 whenever you feel like it and have everyone suddenly get a case of total amnesia.

Sometimes short-term pain is better than long-term agony. Sometimes a sharp knife does the job better than a butter knife. Sometimes people that made stupid decisions and bought $500,000 houses on their $40,000/year salary need to bear the brunt of the responsibility for their bad decisions themselves, instead of everyone that used common sense doing it for them. It's called tough love. Quite a few studies predicted that we would have been out of the depression in 3 years instead of dragging it out to 10 with all the spending. Sometimes spending all your time putting a pillow under everyone to ensure a soft landing is not the best way. Sometimes those stupid enough to jump just need to go "splat", so we can get it over with, clean up the mess that much faster, and get back on track. No, I don't think they would have all pulled themselves out of it. But who cares anymore, if you screw up, the gov will see to it that you don't have to suffer the consequences. (That kind of parenting usually ends up with the kid in jail as he gets older).
Besides - despite all this "we have to pass it NOW, we don't have time to let Congress read what their voting on" - I still see people losing their jobs, homes and property values plummeting. Has it done alot of good so far, at least to the point it had to be passed without letting anyone read it? Would 1 week have mattered?

Would you really care to get in a competition of "we've seen more of Obama since Jan 20 than Bush in 8 years?" Really? Want to put some money on that? :)

Hey, I hope the Dow stays up........ you're cracking me up...... we had lots of up days of the Dow when Bush was in office, especially after we turned around after 9/11.... but you wouldn't dare give him any credit for that..... but now you're quite the cheerleader..... Talk about fickle people..... could have fooled me... I wasn't aware this was the first good day in the Dow since 2000.....LOL

March 23, 2009 at 4:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

And thanks for the tomato offer, create. No, that doesn't make you a socialist. Socialism is when the government just comes and TAKES your tomatos whether you like it or not. And gives them to me whether I bother to get off my fat lazy butt and try to grow my own tomatos or not.

You're just being a good-hearted & nice person. This world needs more people who are identified simply as that, instead of by their political affiliation. And people that will be nice to people regardless of their affiliation, or lack of...... :)

Except nowadays, what really happens in cases like this, is that people grow some decent tomatos, but the fertilizer came from the right side of the street, so they grumble, complain that the tomatos aren't big enough, and hope the store fails. Then, they start getting their fertilizer from the store on the left side of the street, their tomatos are the same size, but they think they're wonderful, and they start chastizing people for daring to say they hope the store on the left side of the street fails.

Either way, what your getting from both stores, regardless of which side of the street it is on..... is........ fertilizer...... pure and simple........

March 23, 2009 at 4:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

I sure enjoy reading your analogies. This fertilizer one is the best I've seen in a long time. Touche!

Oh yeah, the Bush/Obama number of appearances is hyperbole, old friend. No bet there.

The tomato offer still stands. Let me know. Sliced tomatoes, fresh basil, sliced mozzarella drizzled with extra-virgin olive oil. Caprece. Yum. I'd eat that for breakfast right now if I had the fresh basil.

March 24, 2009 at 7:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

roger (anonymous) says...

Clinton pushed Nafta through in his first term setting our economy up for failure. He was just finishing old man Bushes plan. Enough people gave him a pass on it that he got a second term. His sexual indiscretions were the only thing most of his enemys could say anything about becaust all the polititions on both sides were robbing our country blind. Then young Bush came in and gave us 8 years of tear jerking incompetance. No one held him accountable for his screwups including a war with out sufficient cause. Now we have Democrats back in office and the lying and crookedness continue. So far I think Obama means well but Dodd should be ran out of the country. Our country is staggering under a debt load that is almost incomprehendable and no one is going to hold the crooks like Dodd accountable for their actions. I guess we just let it slide until a bloody revolution is the only way to possibly straighten the country out. I would expect Obama at least to demand Dodds resignation. I voted for Obama but if he doesn't use his bully pulpit to control the crooks in his own party I won't be voting for him again.

March 24, 2009 at 5:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

Why is it that Bush got the blame for evrything for the last 8 years but now we can magically see that other people in the government share the blame like Dodd? I've been saying for years that Bush wasn't solely to blame and we need to look at others in government but people insisted that it was Bush and Bush alone. If people had been looking at what all the other politicians were doing I seriously doubt Dodd would be in office right now.

March 24, 2009 at 6:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )