In Iran, phone systems and computer networks have been shut down or placed under tight censorship, but the government has not been able to still the voices of those who say that last week’s presidential election was a fraud.
The protesters cannot publish newspapers or post on electronic bulletin boards, but their mass demonstrations shout loudly to their fellow Iranians and they are Twittering like birds to the outside world.
Twitter, the service that moves 140-character instant messages, the rage of compulsive communicators, has found a higher purpose this week. It has become the voice of people whom tyrants want to silence.
As soon as Iran began banning outside news reporters and disconnecting means of public communication, the protesters moved to a means of communication that the mullahs and the government neither understand nor appreciate. Twitter has allowed the instant dissemination of information, disinformation and rumors. But there are so many voices involved that, eventually, a kind of consensus of truth emerges.
Twitter has become so important to the people in Iran that the U.S. government weighed in the other day when Twitter was preparing to take its network down for maintenance. Washington asked the company to delay the maintenance to avoid silencing the Iranian protesters. The company agreed.
What do the Twittering voices of Iran say? Here are some samples of resent traffic, provided by Andrew Sullivan of The Atlantic on his Web site, The Daily Dish:
• militia in streets of tehran all night trying to scare ppl
• conflicting reports from Rasht of many dead and all night street fighting
• last night thousands stayed in streets between Parkway and Vanak sq until after 2am
• unconfirmed - several Generals have been arested
• only baseej militia and Etellaat folowing orders - they cannot contain country without Army
• in azadi sq the killing was by baseej ONLY - military did not react
• situation in Ahwaz critical - many many dead in past 48 hrs - hundreds arrested and beaten
• 38 wounded by shotguns were admitted to Rasool hospital yesterday. among them 10 were killed.
• more than 30 were killed in gunshots yesterday whose corpses were removed by Intelligent police from Imam hospital
• I’m good and safe for now. just my leg wounded a little bit, I don’t think I can run fast any time soon
• Iranians continue to receive pre-recorded messages from the gorvernment. They state that they are part of the protests.
• AFAIK students have evacuated U of Tehran dorms!
• special forces burst in my friends home & arrested injured who sought shelter there says thre is blood on stairs
• ignore all instructions from new twitters or twitters with no history of accurate posts
• Lots of fake Mousavi sites created 4 counter intel. WARNING THESE ARE FAKE: www.mirhoseyn.ir www.mirhoseyn.com SPREAD
Maybe we were wrong in this space Tuesday. Maybe this is the voice of a new kind of revolution.
Patrick S. Kelley
Editorial Page Editor
A few notes: Baseej is a paramilitary organization under the control of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards; Etellaat is a daily newspaper published in Persian and supported by the government; AFAIK is Internet slang for “as far as I know.”
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Good lord good thing I re-read this twice and realized it was Iran we were talking about, when I read "become the voice of people whom tyrants want to silence", I though for a minute Pat was talking about Fox News...... LOL
All kidding aside - it is sad that so many there are being hurt and killed fighting for even a small slice of the rights that we daily take for granted. I hope those that think America is so terrible and regularly bash our military will realize that unfortunately, freedom usually has to be fought for at a tremendous price, it does not generally come as easily with "velvet negotiations" as some people would like to believe. The alternative to the blood that is being shed there now may potentially be far, far worse if change doesn't happen there, and soon.
And I'll also state AHEAD of time (just to be safe, because I'm sure it will be stated in some corners) that if anything comes of this, I will NOT give Obama full credit for his policies leading to the "liberation or rise of democracy in Iran" ;-). It might be that they are looking at (despite the continuing violence) free and open elections next door to them in Iraq, a democracy not controlled by a few towelhead fanatics, & wanting the same. Or it could be that this would happen at this time no matter what else was going on elsewhere. Either way I hope it succeeds, if nothing else than a huge step in the right direction towards freedom.
June 18, 2009 at 7:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Boo Hoo Hoo. Iran has it good. I mean, we had Bush! Remember when he made sure that the media didn't say anything bad about him? Remember all the military out in the streets all the time? Man I'm glad those days are over. I still can't figure out why Bush stepped aside so easily after only eight years. Wierd.
Seriously R. Folks
June 18, 2009 at 8:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
That's what happens when you have no 2nd amendment. It was never about protecting yourself from criminals, just criminal governments.
June 18, 2009 at 9:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
I remember when Bush threw out the 2nd amendment. Late at night when it's real quiet like I can still hear the crys of my auntie Folks from when Bush's stormtroopers ripped her 10 gauge from her hands. Between that and him causing Katrina, I'm not a fan.
Seriously R. Folks
June 18, 2009 at 9:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
under_score (anonymous) says...
Bush lied, people died. I heard that Bush has all of that oil that he and Dick Cheney stole from Iraq while nobody was looking stockpiled somewhere in Texas. Billions and billions of barrels of it. Now, they are over there stoking this Iranian revolution so that Iran will have a civil war, thus driving up the price of oil so that they can make tons of cash!
I say we all grab our pitch forks and go and get Bush and Cheney.
While we're at it, let's get all of the rich people with more money than us too! I want free phone service! I want free bus tickets! I want, I want, I want!!!!
Viva la revolution!
Who's with me ?????
June 19, 2009 at 7:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
driveonby (anonymous) says...
Government controlled press. Biased press. Slanted press. Sounds like the Gazette. You will get the slant WE want you to get.
June 19, 2009 at 7:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
I hope they are able to resolve their election problems soon, but I can see this discontent lasting for awhile after observing a couple of things. First, most of the people in the crowds are dressed as we do in the west -- in jeans and t-shirts or sports shirts and not in the long, flowing white robes. As such, they seem to be westernized. Second, many of the women are not wearing the traditional head covering. Perhaps that is no longer required, but I found that to be curious.
I saw Henry Kissinger interviewed the other night and he remarked how Iran is governed by a regime run by theologians, and that these demonstrations seem to indicate that people are against the ayatollahs as well as they are Ahmadinejad. "It's an evolution that may go in a positive direction," he said. He also added that he believed President Obama did the right thing by commenting only briefly on the situation.
In the meantime, McCain is calling for stronger verbage from the president. I suppose if Obama did this, he'd be accused of war mongering. Damned if you do, and damned if you don't.
Another thing I found interesting was Kissinger's comment on the population of Iran, that its majority is under the age of 33. This says something about the demands youths are making about entering the 21st century. They may indeed be at odds with their religious leaders.
On the other hand, this morning, when I watched the video of their ayatollah leading morning prayers and making comments about the crowds in the streets, I noticed that the service was crowded and most of the men there were old. Some began to cry as the ayatollah admonished them for allowing the young people to run the streets. They must be totally connected to their religion; I can't see myself breaking into tears if some minister admonishes me for anything.
There's more to this than election fraud. That country is ripe for another revolution judging by the numbers in the streets. It's interesting to watch, and certainly a wonder to see how technology is being used to sneak messages out proving once again that where there's a will, there's a way.
June 19, 2009 at 7:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
What up under-score...when you can't compete in real debate you just go looking fo a more agreeable audience......The discussion your going on about is on a different page. Buck Up Bucko!
June 19, 2009 at 7:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
under_score (anonymous) says...
biscuitboy, I wouldn't call anything that goes on here a real debate but at your request I did go back an post. Please don't expect me to respond again. I'm bored with that one and I cannot be allowed to be bogged down answering a bunch of long-winded assertions and accusations that have already been covered hundreds of time. That takes too much time away from my witty one-liners and blistering commentary on what makes you tick. Deny as you might, we all know the truth. You should change your moniker to "givemeyours".
June 19, 2009 at 7:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
oH ma garsh! oH ma garsh! I just seen me a vidya on the youtube the dotcom about hows Bush ands Chaney helpeded out Ahmandidajohny steal that thar E leection from them folks from that Flock of Seagulls song "I Ran"................"and I ran, I ran so far away".
Watch this vidya all the way to the end or you won't really understand hows it about this here I ran thingyjobber. Trust me. It's startlin' at the end. It's in some sorta code but it's all clearded up in tha end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5im0S...
June 19, 2009 at 8:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Oh Grape Snapple! I fergot to say
Seriously R. Folks
June 19, 2009 at 8:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
I'm with ya, create. I've remembered seeing for years how the majority of the population in Iran was young and very pro-western. Which is in some ways what has been "skewed" about the Bush perception in the world. Who Really hates him overseas - the oppressive regimes who were afraid democracy might take root and spread to their tightly-controlled populations, such as in Iran? They control the press so the press put out any numbers they wanted..... in today's world, there are certain segments you do NOT want to be popular with. Or else there's something wrong with you.
And I agree - Obama is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. At this time I think he is doing the correct thing by saying very little, no need to cause a backlash against our troops overseas till we see how this plays out a little more. Oh, and O'Reilly said the same thing last night..... yet another one of his many positive things he says regularly about Obama, (along with his criticism of other actions.)
June 19, 2009 at 9:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
I'm sorry I missed O'Reilly's comment. I did watch Kissinger on Greta Susterin on FOX though. I figured you'd say, "Aha create, caught you watching FOX! " lol
We'll see how this Iran situation plays out. I remember the revolution in the 70's when the Shah was overthrown. I was in Hawaii at the time and remember how quickly he was whisked away to family members there where he lived in a very high-dollar beachfront home until he died a few years later.
The president has a lot on his plate. Right now, wait and watch seems prudent at a time when we have war in two theatres.
June 19, 2009 at 9:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUjIA3...
June 19, 2009 at 9:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Agreed. I think now is not the time for the US to make any rash statements or moves.
I know you secretly watch Fox sometimes. Because some of your comments (at times) are WAY to rational, sane, and sensible to be otherwise. I KNOW you couldn't have gotten your info anywhere else - LOLOLOLOL
Just needlin' ya with a smile ;-)
June 19, 2009 at 9:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
It's sad to see that there could be election fraud going on, but really, what power does the president of that country truly have? The Ayatollah still has the final say and can overide the president if needed. Until they are ready to change their form of governent to a true democracy its really semantics, stonger words won't do anything at this point until those people want a true democracy.
June 19, 2009 at 10:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
True, but they may not be able to do it all at once. They may have to break the Ayatollah's stranglehold in steps. Once they get a good taste of it they may not be content to stop there. We can only hope.
June 19, 2009 at 10:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
netloafer (anonymous) says...
There is a bi-partisan resolution that the House will vote on some time today that I think expresses what should be the American response:
http://www.mikepence.house.gov/images...
The resolution will have some changes, but it will express our solidarity with the people of Iran and their aspirations for freedom, equity under law, justice, and democracy.
While I want to support the President, I believe that there are those difficult times when the most powerful leader in the free world must say something. I also recognize that whatever he would say would be considered meddling by the mullahs in Tehran, but the President's current silence is tantamount to approval of repression, corruption, and blatant disregard for human rights. Those demonstrating for reform in Iran deserve more than that.
I don't think it would be offensive for the President to mention that the American people support the standards of democracy and fairness that pre-date our revolution, going all the way back to the ancient days of Cyrus, king of Persia and that we support the internationally recognized right of men and women to equity and justice in their political systems.
If saying something like that would be construed meddling by the mullahs, so be it. The people in the streets of Tehran know better than that. Their government has demonstrated, through corruption, incompetence, and repression that it is not worthy of the Iranian people.
The President has one of those rare opportunities to display the courage needed from a world leader. It's time for him to discard his timidity and express the ideals of free people.
June 19, 2009 at 11:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
No, no, no, no, no. I read all about how Bush's speeches on democracy were offensive and basically approved of repression, corruption, and blatant disregard for human rights. He supported North Korea, Iran, Iraq, the Taliban, etc....... Our current president can absolutely NOT say anything bad about Iran unless we an prove first they have WMD's......
Ok, just being a smarta$$. I totally agree, netloafer.
June 19, 2009 at 11:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
I agree with you netloafer, but not totally. You say, "the most powerful leader in the free world must say something." He has indeed made comments in the past two days, however brief. His more powerful comments were made in his speech in Egypt last week. Many of those comments fueled the resolve of many of the Iranians in the streets today. I have seen signs that say "I wish Obama was our president." Pretty amazing.
I just hope they don't turn the police out to quash demonstrations with more gunfire. And yet, their Supreme Leader Ayatollah Imam this morning addressed Obama directly and dared to claim that they are not violators of human rights and accusing Obama of being a hypocrite. Poop! He himself was a political dissident in the 1980's. This is so dangerous in its simplicity.
Has anyone noticed how they use the same words over and over again? A favorite is "criminal."
Thanks netloafer, for the link to the congressional resolution. We'll have to keep an eye on all this.
June 19, 2009 at 12:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
I gotta be honest, I hope Obama is focused more on the situation in North Korea than the situation in Iran. Unlike Iraq,Iran and even terrorists, these guys do pose clear and present danger with WMD's.
June 19, 2009 at 12:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sV3_L...
He's all over the North Korea dealio!
Seriously R. Folks
"Damned if you do, and damned if you don't."
This in no way applies to Obama. He's too dreamy and popular.
June 19, 2009 at 1:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
netloafer (anonymous) says...
Create
I suppose it could be argued that the President's words in Egypt outlined our values in some manner, although the current regime could easily have read them as favorable to their continued grip on power.
I think his earlier words, with no current response, make the situation for the Iranian people even worse.
I remember when I was a kid living in a gang infested neighborhood, there was constant pressure to join a gang "or else." The authorities running the housing project where I lived sent letters and other communques out to residents outlining what they believed was responsible citizenship. They basically told us to fight back against the intimidation. We did. The result was beatings, muggings, etc. I had two occasions where gangs of 6 or 7 neighborhood toughs smacked me around "real good." I went to the authorities and they did nothing. No response. No police (the police, in fact, were afraid to come into the neighborhood). Those of us who stood up to the gangs saw what our reward was - beatings followed by silence or empty platitudes.
In 1956 the people of Hungary voted out a repressive communist government. They lived for about 20 days or so in a democratic state of sorts. Then the Soviet tanks rolled in. The people fought back with molotov cocktails, old rifies, and kitchen utensils. The result was preditable. It was over quickly and it was brutal. The Eisenhower administration did nothing, fearing the Soviets. In all the geoplitical intrigue something very valuable was lost - millions of Hungarians were relegtated to oppression.
If that's where President Obama wants to take us with Iran, I want no part of it.
June 19, 2009 at 1:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
If that don't work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDC5Ja...
June 19, 2009 at 1:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
I honestly don't believe our president wants to take us to the scenario you suggest, netloafer. Of course, I have no evidence for this, but I believe he is just taking a very patient view of the situation and waiting for just the right time.
Remember Mr. Miyagi with the chopsticks in the Karate Kid series? Watch this with respect to the current situation with Iran and N. Korea:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ2H1K...
June 19, 2009 at 2:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
wildcatnurse (anonymous) says...
The US just needs to stay out of everyone's business and focus on our own country and our own problems being cause by spending billions of dollars overseas. Our Foreign Policy sucks and it's no wonder the whole world hates us....oh wait...except Israel. And why does the whole world hate us? Because of our relationship with Israel. It's rediculous.
We need our own revolution. Read anything by Ron Paul and you'll soon see how crappy our government really is and how we need to get back to the fundamentals our country was founded on.
He predicted this recession years ago, but no one would listen. In Dwight D. Eisenhower's final speech, he warned abou the Military Industrialization Complex...how we profit of war...and look what has happened to us.
Why do we need troops in 130 countries? WE CANNOT AFFORD TO HAVE TROOPS IN 130 COUNTRIES. We cannot afford to have troops in any country. WE ARE BROKE!!!
If our young people would be as passionate about our country as young Iranians are about theirs, we could really make a change.
June 19, 2009 at 2:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
What kind of change, nurse? Marching in the streets and hoping another stronger country comes to help? What good does that do? Help with what? Changing the administration? We just held elections 7 months ago and I remember that unprecedented numbers of young people were involved. What else do you want?
I detect some anti-Semitism in your comment that the whole world hates us because we are supportive of Israel.
You're wrong about young people today not being passionate about this country. As I remember, following 9-11, recruiting offices all over the country were doing a land-office business.
In addition, we have many, many young men and women in uniform today. They are doing a very difficult and dangerous job and you have just insulted them.
June 19, 2009 at 3:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Amen, create.
Why do so many people want us to abandon a democratic country and support the exact opposite surrounding it? Because overall we would be more popular with a greater number? Like I've said often (during the last 8 years) - the job of being POTUS isn't necessarily a populatity contest overseas. That does not mean I believe US first and to he$$ with the rest of the world. But you stand up for what is right when you should. Because alot of this world couldn't care less about what is morally right and just. And I'm not out to please THOSE.
The worlds too complex and intertwined, and the US is a leader and too big a part of it economically and financially, not to mention morally (as the leader of democracy) to hole up in our own little corner. (No, that does NOT mean I advocate open borders, lets stay real).
Maybe after we're done nuking Israel, and thus getting half the middle east to love us, we could wipe out Pakistan next and turn it over to the Taliban. Since its just a popularity contest, apparently.
Something tells me nuking Israel wouldn't change alot of Middle East opinion. All those oil-rich countries.... just a few Palestinians.... if they wanted to help every Palestinian could be living in a free mansion right now without a care in the world. Why won't any of the countries there help them? Because they want to use Israel as a scapegoat to hide the real problem, focus the anger of their oppressed people on Jews. So they won't realize their REAL problems. Like some in Iran are starting to......
June 19, 2009 at 4:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
To get the middle east to like us we would have to nuke Israel and then nuke ourselves. If we really care about their feelings this is the only solution. Obama's "sexy" ain't gonna cut it with them they.
June 19, 2009 at 4:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
I accidentally hit my "they" button. Whoopsy Doosy
June 19, 2009 at 4:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
What I don't understand about Iran is, if Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is the supreme leader of Iran, why do they have elections and a president ?
After all doesn't " Supreme Leader " as the term is used in Iran, the same as the term " Dictator " is used elsewhere in the world ?
If the supreme leader of Iran can step in and declair a possibly fraudlent election as valid and non fraudulent, whats the use of having an election in the first place ?
Does Iran possibly have elections to fool the rest of the world into thinking that they are a free democratic country ?
June 19, 2009 at 7:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Hey, I believe the nut that rules North Korea is more of a threat to world peace than Iran. This guy has nuclear armed missles and doesn't seem to be afraid to use them !
June 19, 2009 at 7:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Observation;
I believe that any certifiable " NUT " who is just crazy enough to use a nuclear weapon is very intimidating ! The problem is these types of people are so demented you must be very careful how you respond to them and how you handle them !
June 19, 2009 at 10:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Good reponse methusla!
June 20, 2009 at 5:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
methusla, I realize your questions about Iran's Supreme Leader are rhetorical, but I just thought I'd interject a quick response to why they have elections in the first place when the Supreme Leader is nothing more than a thug dictator. Their pretend democracy allows them to have a seat in the United Nations. I'm surprised the U.N. has stayed silent, but then again, don't they usually?
June 20, 2009 at 7:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
CNN is reporting that despite foreign news blackouts, word has been received that protestors have indeed hit the streets once again, but this time, armed police with tear gas are involved as well. May God give those protestors courage. I can't help but think of our own revolution and all the little stories I've read over the years about feats of personal heroism and courage.
On another note, protestors are being told to remove the SIM or SIN cards from their cell phone to avoid detection. First, this is worrisome, yes, but still fascinating how technology is being used to sound the alarm. There is strength in numbers and they certainly have that.
On yet another note, what is a SIM card?
June 20, 2009 at 7:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
create;
SIM, stands for Subscriber Identification Module, and most all cell phones have one .
I believe SIN, stand for Subscriber Identification Number and serves the same purpose as a SIM.
They are both used to identify the owner or person who owns that particular cellphone and the cellphone number !
June 20, 2009 at 7:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
P.S., your computer and you can also be tracked and identified thru your I. P. address, because your I.P. or internet provider has your name and regestered Internet Provider number on record and due to the National Security laws, absolutely nothing is private anymore, anywhere .
Big Brother is watching !
June 20, 2009 at 8:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Thank you, methusla, good to know. I learn something everyday on this computer. Yes, I see what you mean by Big Brother.
June 20, 2009 at 8:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
They must not have had access to our media over there for quite some time. If they had they would know how good they had and continue to have over there compared to the tyrannical dictatorial oppression we suffered under Bush. Am I right?(holds up hand and waits for someone to give him a high five)
(waiting)
(waiting)
(waiting)
June 20, 2009 at 8:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
The UN often speaks up but is pretty toothless. And then if you do something about it (like act finally after 17 resolutions) you're branded a criminal. Because, of course, some on the Security Council have been bought off with Oil For Food money. The "U" in the UN stands for "Useless".
As for Korea, I'm not sure I view them as quite the same threat overall as I would Iran. They're isolated world-wide, China tends to keep them under their thumb, and I see him pretty much as a big blow-hard. And he has no wish do die. Any action by them would be condemned immediately by pretty much everyone. I'm more worried about their exporting their WMD tech. Iran, on the other hand, is run by suicidal fanatics not afraid to get their own country nuked in exchange for starting WWIII. And no matter what idiotic actions they take, they can count on a large part of the Muslim world supporting them doing anything against Israel. And, much as I hate to say it, N Korea has nothing of value the world wants, but start an all-out exchange in the middle east and watch how the rest of the world reacts when the oil supply is threatened.
Just My Opinion. All points here so far are good and valid.
June 20, 2009 at 9:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
seriouslyfolks'
Heres my high five ! And since the age of electronic servailance, cellphones, computers and the paranoid panic after 9/11 during Bush and the illegal enactment of Homeland Security, the world has become Big Brother oriented. There is no such thing as sacred or private anymore ! When you talk on your phone, computer, etc., you will have to be very careful to whom you communicate and what you say ! The world has become seperated, fearful and distrusting of one another ( with good reason ) !
Could the Mayans have been correct about the worlds end happening in the year 2012 ? I don't know, but things are certainly not getting better !
June 20, 2009 at 9:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
methusla......now that you have defined the question I too will add my high five...but being the ingrate idiot poor person that I am you better watch me or it will be just a high four.....we're like that you know. lol
create.....I'm being uncharectalistically quiet on this one because you are doing such a good job stating my thoughts.
June 20, 2009 at 9:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
open_eyes;
You are right, to a certain extent, however, the power that Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and all the oil rich nations of that area have over the rest of the world is the oil !
I do not believe that these oil rich nations would risk loosing that power by starting anything that would jeapordize the loosing of that power . Especially anything of a nuclear nature, because that would absolutely destroy the oil supply for centuries !
On the otherhand as you say, North Korea has nothing anyone wants, especially no oil, etc. and this makes Kim Jong-il very very un-trustworthy, unpredictable and very dangerous !
And the only power Kim Jong-ill has over anyone is the threat of a nuclear exchange.
June 20, 2009 at 9:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
All the threats of the world were just made up by Bush! Come on people. The U.S. is the only threat to the world. Ask Michael Moore or any other moderate.
June 20, 2009 at 9:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
open_eyes.....couldn't agree more with your anaylisis of the threat potential between North Korea and Iran......the old bug-a-boo oil really ups the ante. Continue to believe however that the goofball in N. Korea is the loossest of the loose cannons in the world today and as such deserves a wary eye no matter how much he might look like a strutting paper tiger.
June 20, 2009 at 9:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Observation
Big Brother heard that. Or should I say ................. Bush?
June 20, 2009 at 9:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
biscuitboy'
I will take your advice and keep one wary eye on you for a high four, tee, hee and Obversation I will try and keep the other eye on the sugar, paranoia bowls and try and not mix them up, but my problem is, too much sugar make me paranoid also, Ha, Ha !!!!
All we can do is ride this out and hope for the best ! Good luck and peace to everyone !
June 20, 2009 at 10:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
(This comment was removed by Seriously R. Folks)
June 20, 2009 at 10:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
I was by no means implying that we should take an eye off of N Korea for even a second. But their stated goal isn't to wipe Israel off the map and bring about a world war, thus hastening the return of the second Iman or something like that.
But it's fraught with danger just as well. Since the little twerp is under China's wing, if he does something rash and we retaliate, would China take that as an offense or threat to them?
I remember how Bush refused to meet one-on-one, and insisted on 6-party talks. Once that happened, and N Korea made some concessions (at least for awhile, it seemed) - then all I heard was that is was the 6-party talks that did it, not Bush................ fickle, fickle, fickle people..... :)
I can only hope that if he gets completely out of hand, perhaps China will slap him a bit with a heavy glove as they did before. Or is he their pawn to provoke things while they sit back with (supposedly) clean hands?
I guess what I'm trying to say that as unpredictable as he is, Kim Jong is playing games (dangerous ones). Iran WANTS to bring about WWIII......its not a game to them. Nor do they care about dying. The rich governments in the middle east of course do not want to jeopardize their cash cow, (with the exception of our Iran nuts) - but what about the poeple on the street, whom they have whipped into a frenzy for decades blaming all their ills on Israel? People willing to strap suicide belts on or send people on suicide missions don't care about oil. Only as a means to an end. Like the $$ to purchase nuke technology from N Korea or such.
I don't envy Obama his job in times like this. Nor did I envy Bush his job after 9/11. They're both damned if they do and damned if they don't.
Besides, if the situation in northern Pakistan gets out of hand, who knows what could happen.....
June 20, 2009 at 12:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
LOL YY4U - well, you know what I meant. But to be specific...... if the gov is overrun and/or loses control of the nukes........
Shoulda hit me lying in the street when you had the chance! LOLOLOL :)
June 20, 2009 at 12:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
To a degree...much of what has been said here about N. Korea and Iran could alos be said about Pakistan and they already have a dependable, deliverable, nuke. But like Iran the technology cat is already out of the bag in Pakistan making it harder to keep outside information away from the people. N. Koreans however just as well live in a different universe.
At least the cat is out of the bag around Islamabad...less certain up in the tribal areas.
June 20, 2009 at 2:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
"Of course I want fries with that!"
Bill Clinton
June 20, 2009 at 2:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
I think the worst thing about all this is that it's all Bush's fault. Clinton brought us world piece and Bush screwed it up.
June 20, 2009 at 3:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
"I think the worst thing about all this is that it's all Bush's fault. Clinton brought us world piece and Bush screwed it up."
Seriously R. Folks (June 20, 2009 at 3:54 p.m.)
June 20, 2009 at 4:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
I bet Gary Lukert is very excited reading my posts, thinking he has a new convert.
Vote Bush out!
June 20, 2009 at 4:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Yea...let me see....what branch of the military did cheney serve in......and what on-going war at the time did bush avoid.But they sure weren't so cautious when it was somebody else's butt that was on the line. Maybe they tried to avoid Nam because it was.....at least according to some here....a democrats war thereby not worthy of their service.
June 20, 2009 at 4:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Yeah let's vote em' out NOW!
June 20, 2009 at 4:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Let's see.... Clinton dodged the draft.... then sent us into Kosovo...... obviously who we're talking about here...... right? :)
While I was at it..... looked like Biden managed to dodge it as well.......
http://www.911familiesforamerica.org/...
Along with Howard Dean, Dan Quayle.... basically all on similar grounds to the aforementioned accused of our previous administration..........
June 20, 2009 at 5:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
I watched a little SpongeBob this morning when I woke up so maybe Patrick (Starfish, not Kelley) has been rubbing off on me.
Mr Crabs was known as the toughest of the tough when he served in the military. Until he outgrew his shell....
June 20, 2009 at 5:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnYrTz...
"Son, there ain't no draft no more."
June 20, 2009 at 5:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Yeah, you can't see Iran from Palin's rooftop - LOL
June 20, 2009 at 5:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Don't vote for McCain! He's just Bush in disguise! I seen the zipper!
He woulda got away with it to if it wasn't for those pesky kids!
June 20, 2009 at 5:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Yes open_eyes.....but of all those names you mentioned.....only cheney......filer of five appeals to avoid military service......is still out there today beating the war drum. If the chicken hawk title ever applies to anyboy it would apply to him....JMO
June 20, 2009 at 5:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
True...... and since Biden is currently in office.... and we are sending more people to Afghanistan..... what is his title? (Besides King of the Gaffes - LOL)
June 20, 2009 at 5:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Does anybody really care about what Chaney says?
He's kinda in that dead horse category.
June 20, 2009 at 5:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Rumsfeld, dead horse.
June 20, 2009 at 5:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
BTW - Biden used up his 5 (Five) college deferments also before suddenly becoming ineligible because of having asthma as a teenager, which strangely enough was never mentioned in his memoirs book he wrote of being an active teenager, high-school athlete and lifeguard........ but he can't be a chicken hawk, of course, because at that time chickens hadn't been invented yet - LOL
June 20, 2009 at 5:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
King of the Gaffes works for Biden....The only point I was trying to make was that chicken hawks do not necessarily have to be pacifist. That's all.
June 20, 2009 at 6 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Once we make imitation chickens made totally out of soy products chicken hawks won't even necessarily have to be carnivores :)
June 20, 2009 at 6:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
LOL - That's a good one, YY4U! (BTW, I'm SURE it was you now because the tread marks over my arm match your tires - :)
June 20, 2009 at 6:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Looks like the voilence over there is getting worse. And Obama has started to toughen his talk a little more.
June 20, 2009 at 6:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Shoot, excuse the pun, but if Cheney would have served in the service, the only safe place around him with a weapon in his hand would have been about 10 kliks behind him !
June 20, 2009 at 6:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Chaney stuffed the ballot boxes in Iran and then ironically he ran.
June 20, 2009 at 7 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Chaney owns a large amount of stock in the company that makes towels for Holiday Inn. Think about it. The conspiracies run pretty deep.
June 20, 2009 at 7:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Oh and Chaney has gray hair.
What's up with that?
June 20, 2009 at 7:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUB8wQ...
June 20, 2009 at 7:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V7zbW...
"Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!"
June 20, 2009 at 8:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
There's no need to fear ...................
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pJj6s...
June 21, 2009 at 7:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
That one was right on the MSN home page so I youtubed it up. I hope Obama and his disciples have a sense of humor and don't actually believe that is real. lol
June 21, 2009 at 12:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
I hadn't seen any Monty Python in some time.......thank you for two good laughs
June 21, 2009 at 12:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Trick's on him. I use a sword and a hook where my left hand used to be. Dang shark!
June 21, 2009 at 12:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOOTKA...
June 21, 2009 at 12:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
LOL ya'll :)
I think it's time to turn up the rhetoric a bit. Obama played it fairly cool at first, which I agree with, wait & see if this was just a 2 day thing or could mushroom into more. And despite a very measured and cautious response the ruling towel-heads in Iran still blasted the US. So now that we've once again baselined to the world that they hate us no matter what we do, just for the sake of hating & blaming their problems on everyone but themselves, I say give 'em an earful, Obama.
June 21, 2009 at 1:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Boy, those old Monty Python clips brought back some good memories, Monty Pythons Flying Circus was on of my favorite tv programs, always good for a good belly laugh !
Too few good belly laugh programs on the idiot box now-a-days !
Here is another good Monty Python clip from Monty Pythons Meaning of Life part 1, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZWRe9...
June 21, 2009 at 3:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
I have a plan. We build a giant wooden "Obama" and give it to Iran. When Iran goes to sleep, YY4U, open_eyes, biscuitboy and I jump out of the "Obama" and ..................
June 21, 2009 at 4:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
If you really want to know who really rules Iran and the power structure of Iran go to the following site,
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31469914/...
June 21, 2009 at 11:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
P.S. After connecting to the above site, click on "' who truly rules Iran " .
June 21, 2009 at 11:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
You will find out from this site that the president of Iran has little or no power what-so-ever !
June 21, 2009 at 11:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
But it appears from the recent news that we are also seeing a split among the ruling clerics already. Things seem to be coming apart at the seams...........
As for the Trojan Obama horse...... which end do I have to jump out of? :)
June 21, 2009 at 11:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
open_eyes,
It would seem that way, however these types of splits and in-fighting among the ruling clerics has happened before and is, it would seem, just a struggle for power and an attempt to align the clerics or get rid of those who do not see things as they should or are expected to !
June 22, 2009 at 12:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
I'm in for it.....the Obama horse that is.....as long as it has some fRee horses tomatoes.
Everybody is making some very good points about the situation in Iran.....and methusla you could be right on target about the clerics...similair things have happened before. After all, with the religious structure that exist in that country it's hard to imagine any cleric straying to far from the fold.
As to what our response should be....I'll readily admit I don't know....every direction we take holds significant risks of making things worse....either for the protesters on the ground now.....or with our ability to work with the nation later. Don't forget that it was our support of the Shah regime that was largely responsible for setting up the nation we are dealing with now.
I'm just real glad it's not my decision to make...and hope the ones calling the shots call the right ones.
June 22, 2009 at 3:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Was watching some Iranian-Americans on CNN last evening and they agreed that strong support for the protesters at present could have negative short and long-term consequences. What they seemed to want most now was a strong international condemnation of the violence......and a refusal to ackowledge the election results as they now stand.
The death of Neda....dying in front of most of the world....may well prove to be the best hope for change to occur there yet.....and I say that with the utmost respect for her and her family....and my hope that they can find peace.
Cell phone camaras may have earned their place in history that day.
June 22, 2009 at 3:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
under_score (anonymous) says...
I'm very afraid that if there is a civil war that many people will be injured or even killed.. These protestors are breaking the law and should stop immediately to end their bloodshed. Freedom is not worth the loss of even one human life.
June 22, 2009 at 7:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
driveonby (anonymous) says...
This story was about a free and honest press. What we ALL need. This story says that a small group should not control what is released by media. This story says that the folks with the money and power SHOULD NOT control the press. I can't see much difference in Tehran and Emporia.
June 22, 2009 at 7:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
under_score (anonymous) says...
I think that if you listen to what people in the media are saying you will find that we do have a free and honest press. All this hogwash about media bias is simply irrational scare tactics dreamed up by conspiracy theorists.
I think that if you listen to what people in the media are saying you will find that we do have a free and honest press. All this hogwash about media bias is simply irrational scare tactics dreamed up by conspiracy theorists.
I think that if you listen to what people in the media are saying you will find that we do have a free and honest press. All this hogwash about media bias is simply irrational scare tactics dreamed up by conspiracy theorists.
I think that if you listen to what people in the media are saying you will find that we do have a free and honest press. All this hogwash about media bias is simply irrational scare tactics dreamed up by conspiracy theorists.
I think that if you listen to what people in the media are saying you will find that we do have a free and honest press. All this hogwash about media bias is simply irrational scare tactics dreamed up by conspiracy theorists.
I think that if you listen to what people in the media are saying you will find that we do have a free and honest press. All this hogwash about media bias is simply irrational scare tactics dreamed up by conspiracy theorists.
I think that if you listen to what people in the media are saying you will find that we do have a free and honest press. All this hogwash about media bias is simply irrational scare tactics dreamed up by conspiracy theorists.
I think that if you listen to what people in the media are saying you will find that we do have a free and honest press. All this hogwash about media bias is simply irrational scare tactics dreamed up by conspiracy theorists.
Let me know if that didn't make you believe and I'll repeat as many times as necessary until you do.
June 22, 2009 at 7:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
under_score (anonymous) says...
The following link provides a lot of insight into the inner workings of the Obama administration. Interesting.
http://baracksteleprompter.blogspot.com/
June 22, 2009 at 7:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Didn't our press tell us that everything that Bush said was a lie? Didn't Bush say that Iran was a screwed up place that we should be concerned about? I believe the media. I don't believe in Iran.
June 22, 2009 at 7:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Really under_score? I never thought I'd ever read this on an American forum. "Freedom is not worth the loss of even one human life."
Are you aware that almost all of the signers of our Declaration of Independence were hunted down and killed by British troops? In a few cases, houses were burned down, the families inside incinerated.
What about all the patriots who unhitched their plows and picked up their rifles and put their precious lives on the line, lives that were lost in the quest for freedom for America?
It's almost Independence Day. It's not just about picnics and parades and pyrotechnics.
June 22, 2009 at 8:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
If the moderate left allows the 4th of July.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onQMXk...
June 22, 2009 at 9:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
under_score (anonymous) says...
create,
What I meant to say is other peoples freedom is not worth the loss of even one human life, not ours, I mean come on, I didn't mean us.
June 22, 2009 at 9:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
under_score (anonymous) says...
seriouslyfolks,
I cannot follow that link due to big business trying to keep my right to use the internet usage down via the use of firewalls but are you saying the moderate left is now going to completely remove the 4th of July? How will the days in July go then, 2,3,5, or 2, 3.5, 5? I'm very curious to find out more.
Regards,
_
June 22, 2009 at 9:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
I agree with Observation who says, "What value would tough talk be from the POTUS anyway? Any tough talk would have to be backed up by tough action if necessary."
Words are too easy. I'm not surprised to see McCain calling for stronger rhetoric, but like Observation says, what is the value of tough talk in this instance? What exactly does McCain have in mind? Boots on the ground? Even conservative statesmen agree with Obama's current stance.
I see by CNN this morning that the demonstrators have taken to the streets once again, despite warnings against it. On top of that, I've heard many call "down with the ayatollah." Now that's more like it. If they want true revolution in Iran, they're going to have to change altogether by adopting a true democracy and ridding themselves of their current theocracy which is nothing more than a dictatorship similar to the Taliban.
I understand and celebrate the wisdom of our forefathers to not mix church and state.
June 22, 2009 at 9:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
under_score
It's just a joke, I hope. But you can never tell with moderates.
June 22, 2009 at 9:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
"I didn't mean us."
Ok, under_score, I'll put my whip away. Whhhhisssssshhhh-- choo!
June 22, 2009 at 9:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
under_score, the 4th of July will be replaced with National Obama Day (NOD). Instead of fireworks, everyone will be required to take any loose "Change" out of their pockets and throw in the ocean, thereby mimicking government efficiency while also paying homage to a campaign slogan.
On a totally different subject, I just read an article in Scientific American where researchers have discovered how to make embryonic stem cell equivalents out of normal cells, thus eliminating the need to harvest embryonic stem cells in the usual way.
But back on track, I'm not really sure which is the correct stance to take - I've said both ways so far, (depending on which side of the bed I roll out of that particular morning). I'm not sure it really matters at this point. Tough talk or not, they hate us. (The clerics, not the people). No matter which stance we take, someone is gonna complain it was the wrong one........ possibly me..... LOL
June 22, 2009 at 9:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
netloafer (anonymous) says...
I don't think the President as to rattle any sabres, but I think there are some things he could say. Iran (Persia) has a long history of enlightenment. After the national of Israel was conquered by the Babylonians, it was a subsequent nation of conquerors, the Persians, who granted the wishes of the Jewish people to restore their temple in Jerusalem. It was Cyrus, the Persian king, who issued the first edict that allowed Ezra and Nehemiah to lead the Jewish exiles in the rebuilding effort and granted them letters of Persian rights and free passage. Later, Darius even granted some additional funds and resources to the effort when elements in Persian military and civil power tried to repress the exiles. Iranian/Persian scholars led great efforts in mathematics, astronomy, the sciences, and arts long before the Rennaissance. In fact, in many areas, the work of Persian scholars became the framework for the Europen enlightenment In the early 20th century, Iran drafted a constituion and built a general assembly to represent the people.
While I recognize that any revolution in Iran must be a peoples' revolution, I don't believe it would be meddling for our President to speak to the hopes, both current and historical, of the Iranian people. I think it would be an indicator that we understand the Iranian people, their history and their desire for free expression....nothing more....nothing less.
I don't know what effect such a revolution would have on our international relations, but I think almost anything would be an improvement over the current repression internally and threatening posture externally.
As to the idea that someone else's freedom is not worth one American, or other life, all I can say is that I reject such a notion categorically. That kind of myopic thinking is far from the American ideal.
That doesn't mean that I'm itching for a war with Iran, but it does mean that I believe that the right of the Iranian people to self expression and self determination is every bit as valuable as mine as an American. If that's not the case, then I say we tear up our Declaration of Independence and tear down our Statue of Liberty.
June 22, 2009 at 11:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
under_score (anonymous) says...
netloafer,
What about Iraqis? Next thing you know people on here are going to start saying that they have a right to be free!!! And we all know that isn't true!
June 22, 2009 at 11:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Right, under_score, remember, we heard that democracy can't be forced on anyone...... (but smoking bans CAN - LOL).
Besides..... given that there were millions of Iraqi's who hated Saddam, and millions who WANTED democracy......... I say pooh-hooh on the hardline fanatics who didn't want democracy "forced" on them (who instead wanted only to "force" their particular fanaticism on everyone else).....
Besides, isn't pretty much everything in life "forced" to some extent or another? Aren't the protesters trying to "force" a recount, democracy, fairness? Dang Bush/Hitler/Nazi/Iranians.........
Interesting Iraqi views (Time mag, 2005), broken down by areas/groups - quite a difference in some places.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/art...
It's like saying I want my yard mowed and grass cut but bitching at the person who brings over their lawnmower and does it..... even though I don't own a lawnmower and have no way to do it myself, (because my neighbor shoots at me every time they see me in my yard) - someone finally brought an armored lawnmower and cut it at great sacrifice to themselves. (But those ingrates missed a spot with the weedeater.)
June 22, 2009 at 11:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
under_score
What is your reasoning for believing that Iraqis should not be free and have their own free nation and government ?
Was it George Ws misleading rehtoric, that Sadam and Iraq possessed WMDs and took part in 9/11 ?
Is being free and freedom only an American ideal and priviledge ?
You had better look around you and open your eyes ! Even we Americans are not as free or have as many freedoms as we once had and are losing more of our precious freedoms, rights and liberties every day !
June 22, 2009 at 11:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
I'm confused......if other peoples freedom is not worth one American life.....what were we dying for in the first gulf war.....bosnia, somalia, viet-nam, korea, WW's I&II. etc? Our freedoms were not directly threatened at the time we became involved in any of those wars. I'm not saying we should declare war with Iran today...I just don't understand the concept.
p.s.....I left out the second gulf war...the one were still dying for.
June 22, 2009 at 12:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
"Sarcasm"
June 22, 2009 at 12:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
under_score (anonymous) says...
Now I have biscuitboy so confused he's on here advocating my position for me!
Lets see where this takes us:
Bush lied, people died. Cheney destroyed the twin towers using missiles fired from a Predator drone so he could help his friends at Haliburton.
June 22, 2009 at 1:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Gore was in on it too. He actually invented the Predator drone, so the intense heat from the towers not only melted the steel but added to global warming thus helping him increase his net worth over 100x (which may turn out to be only the beginning.......)
June 22, 2009 at 1:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
glarson (anonymous) says...
Headed to a forum:
http://www.emporiagazette.com/forums/...
June 22, 2009 at 1:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )