Conversation is an interview with a local person on a topic of community interest. This week’s interview is with Jamie Sauder, who talks about the proposed Emporia visitors’ center.
Q Tell us about the visitors’ center project you are working on. How did the idea for a visitor’s center come about and how did you get involved in the project?
A The visitor’s information center-park concept came about several years ago when the state of Kansas identified the Flint Hills as a significant tourist attraction within the state. At that point they began to poll communities in and around the Flint Hills about locating an information center. That is where the initial idea came from.
When KDOT announced that the interchange at the turnpike, I-35 and U.S. Highway 50 would be changed, we learned that some land could become available from KDOT to place such a structure. We hope to create a mini panorama of the Flint Hills complete with rolling terrain, native grasses and wildflowers and even a babbling brook. Within this setting we would like to have walking trails, and placed along the walking trails is where we would like to put the Prairie Passage Stones. It is our hope that this will give people from outside the community and inside as well an opportunity to learn more about the history of the area and some of its prominent citizens from the past.
My involvement has been twofold. At first, this was a Convention and Visitors’ Bureau concept and at the time I was a member of the CVB Advisory Board. The current push is being made by the Building Futures Goal 8 Committee, which I am the chair of. We have a great group of volunteers working on this.
Q Where would visitors’ center be located and who would build and maintain the building?
A The park would be located just south of the new turnpike interchange and west of the new roundabouts. The first phase calls for walking trails, relocation of the Prairie Passage Stones and a parking lot. A building is something that would be a very long term project. Right now, money is tight all around. It would be extremely challenging to find the money to erect a building that would be suitable and attractive.
Furthermore, even more difficult would be finding money to staff and maintain such a building. Betty Senn, who is really the brains behind our operation, and I have agreed from the outset that while having a building with restrooms and a gift shop of sorts would be fantastic in a perfect world, it would be very difficult to get it done right and keep the lights on. So while a permanent structure is something that we have discussed, it is not something that is very likely at this point in time. The details of our agreement with KDOT could also limit our ability to build something permanent.
Q How far along is the project?
A We are still very early in our project but we are making significant progress. It is very easy to get ahead of ourselves because Betty and I both like to dream big. We are currently still negotiating with KDOT on the terms of the land lease. Until we have a fair deal to have control of the land, there is little we can do other than begin to pool the necessary resources to make this happen.
Q Why is this project good for the community?
A I think there is a laundry list of reasons why this could benefit the community. First, we need to continue to enhance Emporia and how it is viewed both by our citizens and people visiting the community, even if they are only driving through. The park will be at a very focal entry point to the community. Lots of people get on and off the Turnpike every day, as well as come through town on Highway 50. The park could be something that people drive by and look at and perhaps stop, get out to stretch their legs or walk the dog. The piece of land is rather large and it is also our fear that if we don’t take this opportunity and run with it that the land could become an eyesore. The last thing we need is an overgrown, ignored piece of land on the front porch of town.
Q You have had one meeting with city commissioners updating them on this idea. What are some common questions or complaints you have been hearing that you feel need to be cleared up?
A First of all, there have been a lot of really good questions asked regarding the project, and rightly so. Obviously with the state of the economy, the most often-asked question is regarding money for the project.
Our goal for the park is to obtain the land lease and complete Phase One spending as little money as possible. We have already started contacting local businesses and industries to see about donating materials, tools, and labor and have gotten positive feedback from those contacts.
We have also been asked often about maintenance. With the “zeroscaping,” we believe that the park will require little maintenance. Several people have asked how this will get people off the highway and the answer is that on first appearance, somebody probably won’t stop when they see the park. But what we are really driving at are first impressions. We want people who visit our community to have positive memories about their time here. Having scenic and interesting entrance points to the town is just one way we can enhance a visitors’ time while here.
Q What else do you think the public should know?
A I want people in Emporia to know that tourism in our town is a vibrant industry and is much more than someone from out of town taking a trip here to shop and dine.
People come to Emporia for many reasons and while they are here we need to be able to show them what we have to offer. This coming weekend is a perfect example. The American Legion Baseball team will be hosting the state baseball tournament. There will be seven out-of-town teams participating each with a roster of around 15 players. Each team will likely have three coaches and a traveling party of parents and family of near 50 people. So when you do the math, there could be nearly 500 people from out of town staying two to four nights in our hotels, eating in our restaurants, visiting our attractions and shopping at our local merchants. That is big tourism dollars for our town.
Projects and places like our proposed visitors’ park are things we need to have in place so that when the nearly 500 people visiting the town this week go home, they have positive things to say about their time in Emporia.
slimbolen99 (anonymous) says...
Let's all think about this...of all the times that we have travelled out of town, how many visitors centers have YOU stopped at?! It will become an eyesore just as the nice stone carvings on the corner of the fairgrounds have. Nice at first, not so much anymore.
July 22, 2009 at 2:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
madpoet (anonymous) says...
Nice idea but I don't think it will work out so well in reality. For now, we should make sure that empty space is kept mowed and wait for better economic times. I remember how they claimed the aquatic center would be a big draw, too. Just another example of them trying to get as fancy as possible.
July 22, 2009 at 2:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
vankamp (anonymous) says...
I have stopped at many visitors centers around the country....but they have all been located on the highway I was traveling. I would not get off of a turnpike just to visit the center. I wonder if other cities that have visitors centers could be polled to see how busy they are?
July 22, 2009 at 3:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Paccifier (anonymous) says...
If you were at the Virgil Basgall services this morning, maybe a quote that was stated a couple times is fitting from Mr. Basgall- How are you going to pay for it! That may be a quote to remember for a while.
July 22, 2009 at 3:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Tell (anonymous) says...
Good job stepping up Jamie and being a positive part of our community. I like the idea of having our welcome mat as attractive as possible.
July 22, 2009 at 3:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Can't polish a turd, and right now Emporia is a turd.
After all the talk of cutbacks and budget crunches around here the mere fact that this even being considered amazes me.
"The park could be something that people drive by and look at and perhaps stop, get out to stretch their legs or walk the dog."
Uhh rest area 5 miles down the road with no hassle of having to negotiate retardabouts and turnpike booths.
"he piece of land is rather large and it is also our fear that if we don’t take this opportunity and run with it that the land could become an eyesore. The last thing we need is an overgrown, ignored piece of land on the front porch of town."
It is perfect for a business to snap up, and said taxes would sure help.
And perhaps the most pressing question I have, why build a tourist center when tourism is at an all time low, riddle me that one!
July 22, 2009 at 3:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Tell (anonymous) says...
After reading that thanks again for being POSITIVE Jamie good luck with the project.
July 22, 2009 at 3:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Positive is one thing, practical is another
July 22, 2009 at 3:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
I don't really feel much has been "cleared up" here. Here's why:
"The park could be something that people drive by and look at and perhaps stop, get out to stretch their legs or walk the dog."
.........then..........
"....on first appearance, somebody probably won’t stop when they see the park."
and
"We hope to create a mini panorama of the Flint Hills complete with rolling terrain, native grasses and wildflowers and even a babbling brook. Within this setting we would like to have walking trails, and placed along the walking trails is where we would like to put the Prairie Passage Stones...............................The last thing we need is an overgrown, ignored piece of land on the front porch of town."
......then........
"With the “zeroscaping,” we believe that the park will require little maintenance."
Huh?????? Is it just me? Maybe I'm having an off day, but this doesn't seem like consistency.
I personally have a bit of a differing opinion on the "front door" thing too. Having been in this town for awhile, I know what was here first and what have been the add-ons. Coming from an architectural/construction background, I know that the front elevation usually isn't where you stack the add-ons, so I have a hard time perceiving this town that way. That may also be just me.
July 22, 2009 at 5:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rmbcollege (anonymous) says...
I also have stopped at many travel places that were along the highway I was traveling. I think have this would benefit the community, and all the other travelers, even if they are not from Kansas. People from other states.
July 22, 2009 at 5:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
oh4theluvof....
I noticed the same thing. It appears they maybe talking out of both sides of their mouths with walking trails and mini streams and zero maintenance. Seems like it might be hard to have both.
July 22, 2009 at 6 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
YY4U
Your post reminds me of that video game frogger. That was an awesome game. Video games in the visitors' center? Sounds like a winner. It would pay for it's self.
ps
I hope it won't be tall and pointy, just thinking about the giants.
July 22, 2009 at 6:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
MisterO (anonymous) says...
Tell posted, "After reading that thanks again for being POSITIVE Jamie good luck with the project."
Good for you, Tell! Maybe you would like to contribute private donations from your personal bank account to help out with this and leave MY tax dollars out of it.
The "visitors" cited in the article (a "potential" of 500 people) are not tourists. Like most of the "tourists" cited in so many articles, they are not coming here to visit Emporia. They are coming here for a single, specific purpose (to attend a sporting event that a family member is participating in; to visit with their college student; to visit a friend or relative).
They are not coming here from Topeka, Wichita, or Kansas City to shop at our Walmart. They are not coming here for our huge fancy water park. They are not coming here to visit some old dead guy's house. And they are not coming here to eat at McDonalds.
The people traveling the Turnpike or Highway 50 are destination drivers. They are going to Topeka, Wichita, Kansas City, or beyond. They are not very likely to PAY to get off the Turnpike to see "a mini panorama of the Flint Hills".
Until we actually have visitor attractions to draw real "visitors", this project needs to be either put on hold or funded 100% with private funds.
Now that that's said, you want some ideas to draw visitors? How about concerts? We have a University here. As pointed out in previous articles, young people LEAVE Emporia to go to Topeka, Wichita, Lawrence, and KC to find things to do. Drop the visitor's center and hire a concert promoter to bring big name bands here. Music fans WILL travel from Topeka, Wichita, etc., to see live shows by big name bands. LOCALS will scrape up the money to see a good show.
How 'bout NASCAR? I don't get it myself, but NASCAR is wildly popular. There's a race track in Topeka. People probably travel from KC to Topeka to catch the races. Clint Bowyer is from Emporia. Build a NASCAR museum instead of a visitor's center. People going to the races *might* be more likely to get off the Turnpike for that rather than hoping destination drivers will be lured by some dinky little mini panorama.
July 22, 2009 at 6:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
irishemporia (anonymous) says...
I agree with MisterO. A visitors center IN Emporia will do little to pull in traffic from the Interstates. And if the focus is on the FLint Hills (10 miles away), won't that send tourists away from Emporia?
IF you want to get people off the Interstates and into Emporia, focus on Matfield Green and Emporia Service Area on the turnpike, and something east of town (BETO?) to give people an idea to stop. But first, give them a reason. Isn't our No. 1 tourist attraction Bluestem Farm Supply? Much as I love that store, that's not gonna get many travelers to stop.
July 22, 2009 at 7:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
truelovecharlie (anonymous) says...
Emporia has: The ugliest courthouse (castle), The big stone monstrocity at the fairgrounds entrance (maybe you could claim it appeared from nowhere in ancient times), The least crowded water park in the area, capitalize on the Bird Anderson murders and make Flatrocks a tourist attraction (claim Sandra Birds ghost lingers there). Turn the Big Lots into a huge flea market (people will go way out of their way to go to flea markets).
July 22, 2009 at 7:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
" We hope to create a mini panorama of the Flint Hills complete with rolling terrain, native grasses and wildflowers and even a babbling brook. Within this setting we would like to have walking trails, and placed along the walking trails is where we would like to put the Prairie Passage Stones.
Why would anyone pay to get off the turnpike to see a miniature replica of something . When they can drive 10 miles to the south west and basicly see the real thing.
A visitors center ( miniature theme park ) ! More foolishly spent taxpayer money at a time taxpayers can' t afford it.
HMMMMM ! Jamie Sauder, has a familiar ring to it.
July 22, 2009 at 7:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
cheryl (anonymous) says...
Irishemporia brought it up: Bluestem Farm and Ranch Supply.
We are not getting the mileage out of that store that we could. We see it every day and take it for granted, but it is, or could be a tourist attraction. It's a unique shopping experience. And it could be marketed as such.
Women like it too, but it's a place that men would be willing to pull off the road for.
Just like the hundreds of Wall Drug Store (SD) and Ruby Falls (TN) billboards, we could blanket the state with Bluestem billboards. Get people curious, make them want to find out what it is.
July 22, 2009 at 7:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
And why if," The visitor’s information center-park concept came about several years ago when the state of Kansas identified the Flint Hills as a significant tourist attraction within the state." was an idea several years ago why did noone think of the visitors center-park then, when the economy of Emporia may have been better able to afford such a foolish endeavor. That is if spending taxpayer money foolishly is ever an affordable endeavor !
I would like to seriously know who owns the land this is supposed to take place on.
July 22, 2009 at 7:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
"We need the worlds biggest something to attract visitors."YY4U
"Why would anyone pay to get off the turnpike to see a miniature replica of something"Methusla
What if we had the worlds largest miniature replica of something( a giant beer can miniature replica model or something)? People would totally pay to get oof the turnpike for that!
Seriously R. Folks
the folk with answers
ps
Or big signs that say "Emporia! Now with Frogger!"
July 22, 2009 at 9:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
truelovecharlie (anonymous) says...
Cow Patty Frisbie!!! Frisbie Golf is a new sport; how about Cow Patty Frisbie? Start an annual Running of the Goats. People travel from the world over for the Running of the Bulls.
July 22, 2009 at 9:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Japan is where they ride the log down a steep hill.
What about having log riding at high tide on the cottonwood or neosho rivers all the way to the log jam at Hartford !
July 22, 2009 at 9:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
custom (anonymous) says...
This is the dumbest idea yet. People this town is broke. Sales tax revenue is down from the smoking ban. People are taking their business out of town. And now they want to waste money on a non money making structure. I just don't understand it.
July 22, 2009 at 9:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
custom (anonymous) says...
Oh ! People will stop and walk their dogs...."Emporia poop stop on the prairie."
July 22, 2009 at 9:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Oh snap! Did somebody say Logjam!!!!
Logjam, great Frogger players.
Seriously R. Folks
July 22, 2009 at 9:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
I almost forgot .......................... Awesome!
July 22, 2009 at 10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Or, if the nonsense of spend, spend, spend, foolishly and tax, tax, tax beyond belief continues, we could put up a large sign saying, STOP AND VISIT EMPORIA KANSAS
FUTURE KANSAS GHOST TOWN
July 22, 2009 at 10:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
ROFL, YY4U!!!!!!!! I have been refraining from bringing that up, but the reputation is what it is for a reason. Oh, the stories I could tell, but for the user policy on here. That apple never quite fell from the tree--it just appears to have at first glance.
custom said, "Emporia poop stop on the prairie."
This is what we want at our alleged "front door??????" Hmmmm..........I realize I'm just one of the thousands of "behind the scenes" Emporians and as such am barely a human, much less a second-class citizen but even I wouldn't allow that to be my presentation.
July 22, 2009 at 10:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
alfalfa (anonymous) says...
YY4U, I think that idiotic roundabout may have profited a few people too. Most things in Emporia(probably most things everywhere for that matter) that are promoted as cutting edge ideas that will benefit a community, usually do benefit at least one or two families in a community, even if they cost everyone else.
July 22, 2009 at 11:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
joejoe2 (anonymous) says...
One thing I would like to say is RELAX. I could care less if this thing goes in or not. But please quit bashing on Jamie Sauder. He is volunteering his time on a project that will take some land that will not be taken care of and doing something with it. Say you dont like the idea but quit the personal attacks. Just because his dad is a pompus egomaniac dont take it out on Jamie. Everytime someone tries to do anything in this town the same 7 guys get on here and bash them personally. Sorry to go off but you people are like a broken record.
July 22, 2009 at 11:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
joejoe2:
I am happy for you that you have only ever experienced the nice side of the man, but not everyone on the business side has. He and his father have many similarities.
July 22, 2009 at 11:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
here we go again, comparing apples to ????
Today's article gave Jamie the chance to make things a little clearer on this project. Maybe that will make a difference, but it doesn't appear to have changed any minds on here. It will be interesting to see if the city commission will sign a lease for the property. Just my 2 cents, while I still have it.
July 23, 2009 at 12:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
joejoe2 is right everyone should just remax. If it happens so be it. Just remax. We wouldn't want that prime real estate to go to waste. Just remax. Play some Frogger and remax.
July 23, 2009 at 12:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
brightliner (anonymous) says...
How sad your lives must be? A young business man volunteers his time to suggest a postive plan for our community and you all bash him like he was some kind of idiot. Every complaint you have was addressed in the article. He knows funds are short and plans will need to account for upkeep etc.
This space is such a downer for our community because every idea that is proposed is shot down. It must be awful to be so negative all the time. Fortunately, I doubt if Jamie reads these blogs.
July 23, 2009 at 12:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Oh no, playing the life card......how sad your life must be to come in and chastise those here with an opinion.
No not every complaint was answered, this scripted Q and A is not resolving anything. I don't care who brings the idea forth, what I care about is that not a dime of taxpayer money goes towards this, it is wasteful spending in a time when we need it the very least. Emporia is not a tourist town, if the powers that be worked more on attracting some new industry or business to the area as they did on crap like this our town would likely not be dieing the slow death that it is.
I say again, with tourism at an all time low, why is now the time to build a tourist trap? Or another rest stop when there is already one. I thought there was going to be an outlet mall out there, and a Lowes coming, guess they actually had the sense not to take chances in a recession, let a business take it on down the road so it can actually generate some taxes for the city.
Volunteering time and trying to effect positive improvements is commendable, but not when it makes little sense, now is just not the time. I want to know which businesses donate to this, and I hope that is not at the expense of a worker's salary or benefits.
July 23, 2009 at 1:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
If you want to know who is making the money on this project...wait and see what replaces those ugly rocks on the southwest corne of the fairgrounds. Those rocks are not being moved because anybody believes they will attract any thing....those rocks are being moved because they are in the way. JMO
July 23, 2009 at 5:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
The American Legion baseball tournament this weekend is indeed good for the Emporia economy, it always has been. It will not however, bring tourists to Emporia, those attending are destination visitors.
HERE IS SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT:
With the current economy, and the local American Legion in such dire financial difficulty, Will the Legion even be here next year to host the state tournament?
July 23, 2009 at 6:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
And the argument that the land could become an eyesore due to neglect, KDOT has done a pretty good job of keeping their properties up. A lot better than the city of Emporia.
July 23, 2009 at 6:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
goodoleboy:
This is STRANGE! Most of your post is right on, and it is strange you and I can agree on anything, Buuuuuuut,
your comment;
" I want to know which businesses donate to this, and I hope that is not at the expense of a worker's salary or benefits."
Where was that hope during this years earlier city-wide debate on you know what?
Go into any resturant or club in Emporia and ask the employees how their tips have been the last 3 months.
July 23, 2009 at 6:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
alfalfa (anonymous) says...
You guys think too small. What is keeping Emporia from being THE tourist destination of middle America is the runway at the airport. It is too short. You can't land a commercial jetliner there. Expand the airport, put the visitors center there. Before you know it, plane loads of tourists from all over the world will be landing to tour Emporia and the Flinthills. Perhaps a short line railroad can be built. All we need is vision and money, and prosperity can be ours.
Honestly though...not digging anyone, or anyones family. It is interesting(I guess that is the best way to put it) how in the Emporia area the same few people always end up benefitting from most of these projects, and, how anyone who raises any objections to any of them can always count on being branded obstructionist or set in their ways by a willing cheerleader class, often led by the Gazette. The Flinthills are beautiful, but they are not everyones idea of a destination for a vacation. Emporia and Lyon county are NOT going to be major tourist destinations, no matter what, it just ain't in the cards. Effort needs to be placed on keeping Emporia a good place to do business, that means good basic infrastructure, and keeping taxes as low as possible.
July 23, 2009 at 7:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
rbow,
I do not reside within the city therefore the powers that be render my opinion a moot point. This one is a no brainer in my opinion, glad we can come to a consensus every now and then=)
July 23, 2009 at 8:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
What is really funny about all this is the idea that someone donating their time to something that is supposed to be worthwhile and make Emporia a better place and prosper, the fact is that only those certain people that supposedly donate their time and ideas, end up being the only ones who usually, really, prosper from it and everyone else ends up paying for it in the long run .
I don' t believe that anyone is bashing Jamie Sauder, well maybe just a little bit, only because his father is the egomaniac that someone said he is and only because the apple does not fall far from the tree that grows and nurtures it.
There has been a lot of individuals and groups touting that they want to " IMPROVE EMPORIA " . The fact is improvment of anything takes time and " MONEY " and at the rate that our local governing bodys are or propose to spend taxpayer money foolishly , the realization is, that the taxpaying citizens can ill afford nor support foolish and ill concieved spending nonsense . Time is no problem, but the money aspect is a very large and real problem.
Then there are some who say, " well why don' t we get a government grant to pay for this or that " . People, no matter what anyone thinks supposedly free money from the Government, is not free. Someone at some time is going to be paying that free grant money back and I will give you one guess as to who that someone will be.
I believe that the only way to improve Emporia is to expand the jobs base with attracting more industry to Emporia.
If Emporia can manage to attract more industry, manufacturing jobs, etc., then you will see more retail businesses locate in Emporia and Emporia will move forward, improve and grow.
A walk thru, miniature Flint Hills diorama will not attract any jobs base related industries or businesses to Emporia.
Paying jobs are what creates disposable cash flow for individuals and families and jobs are what makes a City, town, village, etc., prosper and grow .
July 23, 2009 at 8:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
"A walk thru, miniature Flint Hills diorama will not attract any jobs base related industries or businesses to Emporia."
What if it was the worlds largest miniature Flint Hills diorama with actual miniature cow playing the parts of full size cows! That would be awesome!
Observation is right, stimulus money is the best way to pay for it, cuz it's FREE!
http://www.minicattlecountry.com/
Seriously R. Folks
Pullin' folks back from the brink of insanity since 2009.
July 23, 2009 at 9:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
under_score (anonymous) says...
I've got an idea. We need to put in more roundabouts. 2-3 on almost every street that runs through the city and especially around the major traffic areas. If we can somehow make it confusing enough to leave the city or even, god willing, make it so people get lost and cannot find their way out for several days then we can increase revenue through additional hotel rooms, gasoline, food sales, and maybe even liquor sales. People will HAVE to shop Emporia first!
We could even market Emporia as the worlds largest labrynth, or maze, or whichever one it is that has an exit!
July 23, 2009 at 9:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
seriously;
That idea is stupid. Why it would take a whole cow to produce just one Double Whopper with cheese. Hamburger helper would have to cut the size of their boxes down. come on, man, think!
July 23, 2009 at 9:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Just make all routes in or out of Emporia one-way so people can enter but never leave. We could even change the name of Emporia to Hotel California!
"you can checkout any time you like, but you can never leave"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3afiWb...
July 23, 2009 at 9:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Smaller cows have less "emissions" also so they are better for the environment. Smaller Hamburger helper boxes means only using one tree per box instead of the current 2.3 trees per box = better for the environment. Miniature cow patties means a local Emporian could invent Miniature cow "disc" golf. I'm likin' the idea more and more. We would be known the world over as a earth friendly town with ingenuity. All we need now is some stimulus moneys to get started.
July 23, 2009 at 9:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
paulkersey (anonymous) says...
Wouldn't it be a lot more cost effective, both in terms of tax expenditure AND revenue to put a sign up telling people to stop at Flying J to let their dog poop? Then, while they are there, they can get gas, buy snacks and drinks, etc, etc. Besides, from what I understand, they could sure use the income to offset losses not related whatsoever to the smoking ban.
Jamie, I'm sure you have the best interest of the city at heart, and thank you for that, but myself, along with a lot of other people on here can probably agree... I think the Good-Idea Fairy may have gotten a little carried away on this.
July 23, 2009 at 10:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Folks,
I'm going to let my daughter use my name in order to make a comment regarding this visitors "park" okay? She is a retail exective with a large company, and she is visiting me this week. She grew up in Emporia. We began discussing this issue and I was interested in her views coming from having not been home in Emporia for many years. So this is an outsider's impression for all intents and purposes. BTW, she drove into town from having arrived in Wichita by air from Chicago. Here is her comment:
Initially, I'm excited that Emporia has an ambassador in Mrs. Sauder. After having read this interview with Chris Walker, my understanding is that the core driver or expectation of this project is to insure that visitors to Emporia have a positive first impression of the area.
At this point, I'm not clear what the benefits from this park would be for the town itself. There was some allusion to people visiting the town and having a good experience so I can only assume that there is some revenue driving incentive as well. That element makes the proposition potentially compelling for the community.
While driving home from Wichita, I saw billboards touting the virtues of Emporia. The messages felt positive and clear to me. They said Emporia is a great place to live and raise a family. One sign related to the historic significance of Emporia.
That being said, here are some of the things I have seen during my visit the past several days. Chain restaurants that have closed, boarded up store fronts, several payday loan/check cashing operations, and evidence of economic decay such as unkempt buildings and common areas. This is not to say that I haven't seen evidence of positive investment, however. Emporia is one of many towns across this nation that is not exempt from the ravages of this downturn economy.
I have a great love for this town, after all, I grew up here. My mother lives here. But I'm wondering what would compel a visitor to want to spend time here.
There seems to be a gap between what Mrs. Sauder envisions and what a visitor might actually experience. There also seems to be a lack of clarity around the perception of the town's identity. What exactly does Emporia want to present as its identity?
Here's my question: Does Mrs. Sauder and her committee already believe that there is a compelling call to action for visitors to want to spend time here?
My mother tells me that there has been a good deal of discussion relating to retail and restaurants locating in Emporia. It appears that the polarized personal economic indicators in Emporia would make that proposition improbable at this time.
This is not an indictment or criticism of Emporia; in fact, I want to commend Mrs. Sauder for dreaming big. I would just want to make sure that before you build it, that you first make sure that there is a reason to come.
July 23, 2009 at 10:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
under_score (anonymous) says...
blah blah blah blah
Mrs. is actually a Mr.
We are all aware that this town is going to hell in a handbasket, we don't need a visitor to tell us that.
Welcome to the forums.
July 23, 2009 at 10:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
wagy (anonymous) says...
If Mr Sauder thinks we need a visitor's center, let's see how much of his own money he is willing to put into it out there at the tunrpike. What ever happened to the visitor's center on Main Street?
July 23, 2009 at 10:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
"executive with a large company"
Aren't executives with big companies the bad guys(or gals)? Dang it! It's hard to keep up with who has virtue and who doesn't. No offense to create or create jr., just making a social commentary. One minute we bash capitalism and the next we try desperately to get money to flow like beer through the streets of Emporia. Hey! I bet people would come here for that! But don't smoke!
Seriously R. Folks
July 23, 2009 at 11:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Create here.
under_score, don't you see it? It's simple. Why downplay the visitor's perpective? It's the visitor's perpective that you do need because visitors are the ones that will give you their opinions by using, or not using, their wallets.
July 23, 2009 at 11:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JSauder (anonymous) says...
I couldn't resist reading the forum to see what people are saying. Chris offered me the opportunity to clear the air via the Conversation piece in the paper, but obviously there are still some questions and concerns. I am all about having a dialogue. I offered my email address in an earlier forum, but only got one email. I am available to answer questions regarding tourism and the visitors park and I will give everyone my email address again. I will not, however, engage in an anonymous discussion on these forums. If you have specific questions, I will do my very best to give you specific answers. Please email me at jamieasauder@hotmail.com or call me and we can get a cup of coffee and chat about tourism and/or the Visitors Park.
Thanks
Jamie Sauder
July 23, 2009 at 11:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
create and junior, :)
I for one welcome an out of towners view of Emporia.
It's like selling your house you've lived in for thirty years.
Sometimes you need the fresh eyes of a real-estate agent to point out all the little things wrong with your house that you don't even notice. (Not refering to Jamie here)
July 23, 2009 at 12:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
under_score (anonymous) says...
create, I see your point. I guess I could be for this visitors center as long as there is 24 hour lighting. You know what they say about rest areas.
July 23, 2009 at 12:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Jamie,
Bro,
Anonymity is better than an anemone to a clown fish. Very liberating. You should get a pseudonym on here and join the "serious" discussion. It's totally awesome to the max! We actually stumble across some pretty good ideas from time to time. One word ....... miniature cows!
Seriously R. Folks
clowns to the left of me jokers to the right, stuck in the middle with folks
July 23, 2009 at 12:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
under_score (anonymous) says...
And no public funds are used to build or maintain it. And a security deposit is put forth with enough money to undo the changes should the private investors fail to maintain it properly.
By the way, what is up with the signs that say "We are building an inclusive community"? It sounds like we are starting a cult. My invite must have gotten lost in the mail.
July 23, 2009 at 12:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
under_score (anonymous) says...
I think miniature cows is three words.
July 23, 2009 at 12:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
I wonder why? I got my invitation.
July 23, 2009 at 12:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Now, now you too, you can find common ground in the fact that Seriously R. Folks likes you both. I don't know if that's a good thing but it's somethin'.
Seriously R. Folks
July 23, 2009 at 12:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
I meant "you two".
July 23, 2009 at 12:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Oh! U2!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6FwEJ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1ujYN...
July 23, 2009 at 12:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Absolute (anonymous) says...
I have wondered about the "Inclusive Community" signs as well.
July 23, 2009 at 1:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
under_score (anonymous) says...
Seriously though, no not you seriously, seriously as in I am being serious. Anyone know about the Inclusive Community signs? What the dealio?
July 23, 2009 at 1:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Jaime,
There really is nothing that necessitates addressing our concerns via a private email exchange. I have seen an abundance of relevant questions and arguments made at this point in time. I cannot fathom how in this adverse economic climate this would be a secure investment for our community to make. Perhaps 10 years ago you might have had a case, but at present our town has lost a great deal of it’s appeal due to significant losses in jobs and industry. Never mind the fact that practically everyday there is something in the paper about budget problems, it just seems blatantly irresponsible at this point to support your project.
To put it in perspective, the foundation of our city is weak, is adding a new front porch without strengthening the foundation a wise decision?
July 23, 2009 at 1:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
under_score (anonymous) says...
At least the stink from the beef is gone. That is a huge step in the right direction.
July 23, 2009 at 1:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
I must disagree with that. The stink employed a lot of folks.
July 23, 2009 at 1:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
Yeah, but so are most of those wages:
retail shopping, property taxes, water and sewer customers, "at risk" students in the school district getting them padded funding, ....
To me (being one of the ones left with the extra bill), that stinks.
July 23, 2009 at 1:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
under_score (anonymous) says...
Thinking long term, the stink was holding Emporia back. Plus, there was a large burden on the system from the illegal aliens employed there.
July 23, 2009 at 2:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Remember the are not illegal. They are law-abidingly challenged. ;)
July 23, 2009 at 2:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Readers Poll to the right of this. As of now more people think we do need a visitors center.
July 23, 2009 at 3:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Local_Hispanic (Vic Rodriguez) says...
I just hope that they, the Building futures committee, doesn't go ahead and build this visitor center without the community's approval. Then we'll see who has the most interest.
Maybe we need to pay more attention to up and coming city commission meetings to see if they will slide this by again as they did with the other "things" that we supposedly wanted like the watch tower, new courthouse, etc.
Let's just build a casino and have the visitor center in the entry way so people who do come can see this, even though they were just driving by the Flint Hills a few miles back.
It's pretty simple, the people here have spoken and the outcome is that it is not the time nor is there any real interest for this to go any further. If so there must be another agenda for the center.
The casino will draw people from around, there can be concerts which will bring in visitors, the economy will get better with more revenue, hopefully more jobs as long as we use local contractors instead of using out of towners to do the job, and most of all it would give people a real reason to get off the turnpike to see the casino and visitor center.
But this just my opinion. Sorry Mr. Sauder
July 23, 2009 at 4:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
KDOT and KTA both take of their right of ways. That excuse doesn't fly.
People getting on and off the Turnpike are going somewhere else and won't be able to smoothly access the area shown on the map. If they are coming into a Emporia event, wouldn't we rather they stopped at a local business to spend their money rather than stopping at a free public toilet?
Funding is unavailable thru taxes right now, too many hands wanting greased with tax money already. Low maintenance? Right.....
Prairie Passage being moved there? What Drug Store or Home Improvement company is interested in that corner now? I'm quite sure that there are more than a few that recognize the true motive behind that proposed change.
Take notice that Lowes backed out because of the economy currently, Emporia would be wise to do the same with this smoke and mirror charade.
July 23, 2009 at 4:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
traceygraham (Tracey Graham) says...
I frequently stop at Visitor Centers when travelling, and I travel a lot. A nice visitor center introduces people new to the area to local points of pride, services and amenities. First impressions are truly important.
Just because the money is not readily available at this moment is no reason to not discuss such a project. You have to plan something before you can put it into place. And when monies become available for "shovel-ready" projects, you need to be able to move. It's too late then to start the planning process.
I applaud people who have the vision to look forward with optimism instead of shooting down every single idea that comes up. Negativity is easy, and spreads easily as well. Optimism in tough times is harder, but it's worth the effort. That's how things get done.
July 23, 2009 at 5:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Nobody has a problem with planning. It's the timing people question.
ps
miniature cows
July 23, 2009 at 5:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
create & daughter of create,
I too appreciate a visitor/former Emporians fresh perspective on this issue. I have one question about one comment, daughter of create made, " It appears that the polarized personal economic indicators in Emporia would make that proposition improbable at this time." Am I correct in thinking that from this comment, you also think as I do, right now, at this time would not be the time to spend money Emporia does not have on a visitors center ?
As your the elder create can probably point you to some of my past posts about this issue, you can see that I am only against a visitors center now and I believe that attracting jobs are more important at the present time.
July 23, 2009 at 5:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
traceygraham
Optimism is not lacking, its just at a low ebb right now.
Too much Optimism in bad times can lead to even worse times if one is not careful ! Too much Optimism in the somewhat good economic times of the past is part of the reason this City and Country is in the economic predicament, now being experienced.
July 23, 2009 at 6:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Cautious Optimism are the words of the day.
July 23, 2009 at 6:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
MisterO (anonymous) says...
create's daughter posted, "I would just want to make sure that before you build it, that you first make sure that there is a reason to come."
Yep...that's kinda what lots of people have been saying, although not as well as you just did. Thanks.
seriouslyfolks posted, "Anonymity is better than an anemone to a clown fish."
You know...you might not believe this, but I was just thinking along these lines earlier today. How 'bout an aquarium? Topeka, KC, and Wichita have zoos (and yes, we have our own little zoo), but why not an aquarium?
Stay with me a moment on this one.
There is a tie-in to the area - this entire area was once under a vast ocean. Our Flint Hills and limestone quarries are a direct result of that ocean.
A tie-in with the university: Extensive fresh-water exhibits, including native Kansas fisheries habitat displays would potentially bolster the fisheries programs at local universities and possibly offer employment opportunities for graduates - keeping them in the area.
A tie-in with the Kansas Department of Wildlife and Parks (see above), as well as creating a major Kansas tourist attraction. The KS Department of Travel and Tourism have been trying to promote the Flint Hills as a destination site. Having a world-class aquarium that ties in with the geological history of the Flint Hills would definitely promote that.
Also having extensive salt-water habitat displays would possibly promote a tie-in with other aquariums throughout the world, and may possibly offer employment and educational partnerships with other aquariums and universities throughout the world.
A tie-in with our own zoo: the Emporia Zoo is one of the smallest (if not THE smallest) accredited zoo in the US. People visiting the aquarium could also be directed through town (you know...past all the restaurants and shopping areas) to our zoo.
And if it's done right, there's no doubt a world-class, family oriented attraction such as an aquarium would get LOTS of people to pull off the Turnpike to visit and would also stand on it's own as a reason to visit Emporia as a destination.
Yes, it would be expensive to build and expensive to maintain, but if we partner with state agencies (Wildlife and Parks, Travel & Tourism) and Universities (ESU, K-State, U-Kansas, Wichita State), the costs could be shared for the mutual benefit of all.
I would much rather see my tax dollars go to a project like this that actually WOULD draw tourism, than to build what's being proposed.
July 23, 2009 at 6:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
From the daughter of Create:
Methusla,
Yes, you are correct in thinking that I do not feel that this is the time to spend money on a visitor's center. I feel that "Goodoleboy" really said it best: "building a front porch without strengthening the foundation" really doesn't seem like priorities are in order.
My comment about "personal economic indicators" really refers to the current demographics in Emporia. Due to the loss of jobs related to industry, average household income does not meet the requirements necessary for most in the retail/hospitality sector to make the decision to expand their footprint by locating here.
My mother tells me that you are in the process of writing letters to companies who may be interested in locating to Emporia. As you've already identified, one way to "strengthen the foundation" is through the creation of jobs from new businesses. With no compelling shopping/eating/entertainment available, I still question what will bring visitors into the area?
July 23, 2009 at 6:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
MisterO (anonymous) says...
Continuing 'cause I ran out of room:
With an aquarium, there is also a tie-in with the Jones Aquatic Center. "You saw the fish...now BE a fish at the Jones Aquatic Center".
An aquarium is also an indoor attraction, so it would potentially draw tourists year-round. It would not be dependent on weather conditions or summertime athletic events.
July 23, 2009 at 6:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Daughter of create again:
Mr. O,
What a well-thought out idea you have about a world class aquarium. That's exactly what I mean by making sure you give people a reason to come. An aquarium like this would be a terrific reason.
I hope the readers here don't misunderstand me or think that I am being overly critical. Believe me, I would trade some of the compelling attractions in Chicago for the friendly people of Emporia any day. I have had a terrific week here. Thank you for your wonderful hospitality.
July 23, 2009 at 6:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
A world class aquarium is a good idea. And I am not trying to rain on anyones parade here. But I still believe that a substantial jobs base is the bed rock of any Citys foundation and you can' t build or expand anything with a good bed rock base to build upon. Jobs = disposable income for more people = more revenue to the City and County, to use to improve and expand with = infrastructure repair and expansion = more retail businesses, such as restaurants, big box retailers = a visitors center = more visitors and tourists etc.. Maybe I am wrong in my equation, if so I take back every thing I have said and am trying to do .
July 23, 2009 at 7:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
AN AQUARIUM:
It's beginning to smell a little fishy in here.
COME ON!
Let's float ideas out here for 40 days and 40 nights and people will be so confused by the flood of good ideas that they forget the rainfall. NOT NOW, NO-WAY, AND PROBABLY NOT EVER.
July 23, 2009 at 8:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
HOW ABOUT EVERYONE ON HERE TAKE THIS TEST:
Name your IDEAL top 10 vacation destinantions. If the Flint Hills of Kansas are not in those 10 then forget this whole project.
Be honest.
July 23, 2009 at 8:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
AND SERIOUSLY;
please don't mention the LOGJAM MEMORIAL TRIBUTE IN HARTFORD, KS.
July 23, 2009 at 8:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
AFTER ALL THE JOKING AROUND from Seriously R. Folks, and not trying to be too serious, I would really like to know what your top vacation destinations would be?
Everyone:
If you had unlimited money and resources where would you go?
Top ten, like Letterman
July 23, 2009 at 8:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Mine are:
10 Boston Mass.
09 Philidelphia Pa.
08 Cairo Egypt
07 South Africa
06 Montreal Canada
05 Hong Kong (again)
04 Shanghi
03 Washington D.C.
02 San Diego (again)
01 and the # 1 place I would like to be a tourist is:
NEW ZEALAND.
July 23, 2009 at 8:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
come on Seriously, I left this pretty wide open.
July 23, 2009 at 9:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
10. The moon
9. The moon
8. The moon
7. The moon
6. The moon
5. The moon
4. The moon
3. The moon
2. The moon
1. VENUS ( women are from VENUS ! )
July 23, 2009 at 10:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
I've got to think about this. You already eliminated my top 5. I can guarantee that the Flint Hills won't be on my list unless you're talking about the Flinthills Mall, that place is awesome, not totally awesome to the max, but regular run of the mill awesome. I've got some serious thinkin' to do.
July 23, 2009 at 11:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
rbow
Here's my list....not necessarily in the order of importance.
1....London England
2....Egypt
3....Russia (St. Petersberg)
4....Peru
5....Hawaii
6....Iceland
7....Alaska (except for Wassilla) :-)
8.....Taj Mahal
9.....New Zealand
10....Central Africa (Mt. Kilamanjaro, Great Rift Valley, etc.)
July 24, 2009 at 6:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Hawaii and Alaska are the only places in the U.S. on my list because they are the only states I have not been in for at least a little while....(driving thru, or landing at an airport). I have never been to any of the places on my list.
July 24, 2009 at 7:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
I know that Mr. Sauder is volunteering his time to this effort. What about Betty Senn? Is her time volunteer, or is she paid for her efforts by the CVB? How much has the Kansas dept. of Commerce Travel and Tourism division spent on this? Who was it from the state of Kansas that decided the Flint Hills was a significant tourist destination within the state?
How much,(if any) in tax dollars are being spent on this idea,(wages) already?
I am not attacking Betty or anyone else by asking these questions, as a taxpayer it is my duty and right to ask them.
July 24, 2009 at 7:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bizquikboy (anonymous) says...
San Francisco and Berkley are my favorite places to vacation. In fact, I haven't vacationed anywhere else in a long time. I have several friends in Berkley and we have the greatest conversations. It's just food for the soul and the brain whenver I go out there!
July 24, 2009 at 7:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
bizquikboy....
The longer you post the more I am convinced that you are a parody of me.....and I appreciate the great effort that you are putting into trying to discredit me....it indicates just how much I have ruffeled some feathers here. Thank you for the compliment.
July 24, 2009 at 7:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
biscuitboy,
bizquickboy, rbovv, crackinsack, are just 3 of the many personalities of our favorite poster when she/he is off their meds. enough of that though.
Your list of tourist places was interesting. At our age maybe they should be part of our bucket list.
In reading Meth's choices all that came to my mind was Ralph Kramdon and Alice.
Still no-one has listed the flint hills as their top 10 tourist destinations.
July 24, 2009 at 8:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Quite honestly in this economy I can't even imagine myself with enough money to go anywhere. At my age I don't even think that retirement is ever going to happen. It sad that when trying to think about fluffy crap like vacations is depressing. I'm going back to my happy place now.
Seriously S. Depressed
July 24, 2009 at 9:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bizquikboy (anonymous) says...
Seriously,
I know what you mean but there are still a lot of affordable ways to take a vacation if you know the ins and outs of the system.
Don't worry, we now have the right leadership in place so things ARE going to get better.
July 24, 2009 at 9:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
I think you meant worse.
July 24, 2009 at 9:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bizquikboy (anonymous) says...
I should have mentioned this before but PLEASE don't take a driving vacation if you don't have a fuel efficient car! We can all do our part in saving the planet and that is something simple everyone can do. Bicycling vacations are very healthy and cheap and there are hostels all over they country where you can stay for very CHEAP.
July 24, 2009 at 10:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Local_Hispanic (Vic Rodriguez) says...
Hey all kidding aside I think that the aquarium is a pretty good idea. It's probably one of the best ideas I've heard in the past few years. Too bad the city can't come up with an idea like this.
I've been to the one in Dallas, it's in a 4story building about a block wide. And I tell you what, that was one of the best $35 i've spent for an attraction. My son and I have went back a few years later and was still impressed with the educational and family aspect of it.
But maybe this is not too profitable to any specific people or agency, that it won't float.
PS If you like the tacos on the place at east 6th you ought to try their Papusas which are deliiiiiicious! Cheese only!
July 24, 2009 at 10:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
If you plan a vacation to Hawaii don't try to drive unless you have one of these.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3MqQV...
July 24, 2009 at 10:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
Well, if we are talking about vacations that we can bike to, I would have to revise my list quite a bit. As per my experience yesterday, I think my furthest vacation point would be the Emporia Country Club, but I don't really WANT to vacation there---I just wouldn't be able to make it any farther.
If I could drive, however, my list would take me mostly east from Kansas.
Washington D.C
Boston, Massachusetts
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Tennessee
Georgia
a Caribbean cruise
Mexico City
the French Riviera
anywhere but California
anywhere but California
(I'm really learning from posters on here to strongly dislike Californians)
July 24, 2009 at 11:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
under_score (anonymous) says...
California is a beautiful place to visit, just make sure to take some ky jelly along and apply it prior to entering the state. It makes the screwing from all the taxes a lot less painful and the bleeding is less severe too!
July 24, 2009 at 11:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
giggles (anonymous) says...
The Flint Hills is on the top of my list, but I'm a bird of a different feather. I do have brains enough to know though that there aren't enough like me, to merit such a costly endeavor as a visitors park on the edge of town.
Jamie, and Betty's optimism is one thing but they are still pushing this thing through the works. They are still working with KDOT on the land lease, and he said himself that it was easy for the two of them (Jamie and Betty) to get ahead of themselves.
I for one would like to burst their bubble. It needs to be said. NO. NO, NO, NO and oh yeah NO!
We need to take a specific order and certain goals need to be met long before we consider this.
JOBS, JOBS, JOBS!!!
BALANCE THE BUDGET!!! (BTW, these two can be done together, both to me are equally important)
Create a real attraction to Emporia.
Then if all else is met, a visitors center.
The city of Emporia is not Santa Claus, there should be no so called "WISH LIST" of things on the budget. Each department should only ask for the things that are broken, or absolutely essential to operation. If I sound like a mean Mommy, I say that's what you get, apparently someone has to.
July 24, 2009 at 11:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Paccifier (anonymous) says...
There better be a "Wish List" it's called the Capitol Improvement Plan, and is required to be created yearly by the city staff, reviewed by the Planning Commission, then accepted/revised by the City Commission. It is a part of the budget process, and it works in hand with the City Comprehensive Plan (which is reviewed at least every few years, and revised every 10 or so). It anticipates the long range needs of the City, and avoids a head in the sand mentality of just limiting our view to one year at a time.
July 24, 2009 at 12:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Paccifier (anonymous) says...
Oh, and please remember that a few years ago K.B. Thomas, Jr. wanted to build a 5 story concrete boot with a visitors center in it, so the idea of a center out that way is not new.
July 24, 2009 at 12:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
oh4theluvof
Drive only East to get to Mexico City ! Now thats what I call a person who loves to drive and drive and drive and drive. Its a long way to Mexico City going East only !
July 24, 2009 at 12:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
under_score (anonymous) says...
he/she said "mostly" east.
July 24, 2009 at 12:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Paccifier
I have taken a look at the Citys so called " wish list " for the next 5 years.
Can you or anyone tell me what the biggest flaw is in having a " Wish List " ?
And why not have an " Essential Needs List ", instead of a " Wish List " ?
July 24, 2009 at 1:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
Thank you, under_score. My grammar was a bit hurried and wrong on that one. I meant that most of the places I would go would be east of KS. I also included a location that I can't possibly drive directly to from here--although driving would be involved and it is east.
July 24, 2009 at 1:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
After reflecting more on why this is being pushed I cannot help contemplate the idea that perhaps Jaime's upbringing has something with his inability to grasp the concept of being frugal. I am confident that growing up he did not want for much given who his father was and given this I find it very plausible that perhaps he does not understand the concept behind having to wait for opportune financial times in order to bring this project to fruition.
Listen to the public, if the poll here is an early indicator of the constituents of this town, pay attention to the public now and when the time comes for you to revisit this idea under more opportune circumstances I will wager that a great deal more support will exist.
July 24, 2009 at 1:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
goodoleboy
You put it very wisely indeed. There is a time and place for everything, a wise man once said.
And now is not the time for this particular project.
July 24, 2009 at 1:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
oh4theluvof
I just want you to know that I was in no way picking on you.
Your comment just struck me as rather funny !
July 24, 2009 at 2:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
YY4U
What I want and Emporia desperately needs are jobs, jobs, jobs. A visitors center will not accomplish this, to any great degree, if at all.
July 24, 2009 at 2:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
YY4U
I've had them(papusas) and they are awesome!
goodoleboy
That was an awesome post.
July 24, 2009 at 2:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
giggles (anonymous) says...
Paccifier, the problem with all of that "WISH LIST" nonsense is that there should be no such thing. Essential needs is the only thing that should be on the budget. With the state of the economy as such, they should be only looking at the bare minimum.
July 24, 2009 at 2:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
under_score (anonymous) says...
goodoleboy,
I have an idea. Let's criminalize making more money than you. If people make or come from a family that has more money than you we'll take it away. Until that time they are not allowed to have any ideas. If they do have ideas they shall keep them to themselves on penalty of death.
While I think a visitors bureau in Emporia at that location and in this environment and given what Emporia has to offer, which is next to nothing, is one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard I do not attribute that to his upbringing. I'm sorry his father has done better than you and yours but that is not his fault.
July 24, 2009 at 3:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
No problem, methusla. I saw it as soon as you said something which is why I had to concede my poor sentence structure and my inconsistency in the criteria. :)
It takes much, much more than that to get me actually riled up..I believe I seem more serious on here than I do in real life because my humor doesn't typically translate through my writing.
I don't mind the aquarium idea......if done after the rest of the town is made more presentable through practical use of city funds. I like to visit educational things like the science museum in Columbus, Ohio ( http://www.cosi.org/ )or the Ripley's museums....okay, those are more entertaining than educational, but still...........
I don't know if it would attract a bigger tourism than the Hutchinson Cosmosphere does, but that may be enough. Let's face it, with the Rocky Mountains one state to the west of us and the Ozarks one state to the east, we just don't have much to offer. I think we need to just be okay with that---not every state can have the tourism market. I'm with methusla. What we need are jobs with good wages and a pleasantly maintained town (we citizens being responsible for that on our personal properties as well) and then we can maybe settle for being the tourists for other places. As things stand, like Seriously S. Depressed pointed out, most of us don't have vacations to look forward to and we are stuck in a town that, as create's daughter pointed out, is depressing to look at.
I actually prefer the thought of being the tourist rather than of hosting the tourists, but that may just be me.
July 24, 2009 at 3:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Paccifier (anonymous) says...
methusla
Call it what ever you want- what is necessary to you, might not be to others, and the reverse is true. The real name is Capitol Improvement Plan- and that is the title used by the city. You are welcome to use any nick name you like - Wish List, Overpriced burden, Essential needs list. It is a prioritized projection of what may be coming at us that the staff creates, and is used as a reference. There is public input time available in the creation of the list if folks take the time. You should have heard Longbine talk about that at the meeting at Sacred Heart Parish Hall. And so all know, when is the next budget meeting?
July 24, 2009 at 3:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
This may well be the day that a lighting bolt from the sky strikes me dead.....but I have to agree with under_score on this one.
Criticize this proposal all you like....there is an abundance of reasons to do so......but his father's money, or well-known excesses, should not be one of them.
July 24, 2009 at 3:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
My daughter just drove off to catch her plane back to Chicago and as you might guess, it was difficult to say goodbye. Usually, I visit her because there are so many more things to do there. Nonetheless, it was good to have her home, and as many of you have indicated, good to have her fresh view of Emporia, her hometown.
Her words came from experience. One of the things she does in her job is to survey sites for retail locations and study demographics. Of foremost consideration is the status of local employment.
At lunch today, we talked for a bit about Emporia needing something concrete to offer. The idea of wanting a nice little park so the area doesn't become overgrown is too abstract. Jaime Sauder speaks of the historic value of our area. That's all well and good for those of us who live here, but others are not always interested in your history. Even the swales in the Council Grove area don't get that much attention any more.
I liked the idea of an aquarium, especially when partnering the idea of of an oceanic theme based on the fact that Kansas was once underwater for eons. It's concrete.
Speaking of lunch, you'll all get a kick out of this: We ate at Casa Ramos yesterday and she picked up the tab. She couldn't believe her eyes when she saw the amount due. Lunch for 3 people came to $34 and that included 3 beers. She said in Chicago, a beer is $8. A lunch for three people like we had at Casa Ramos would have cost closer to $50 in Chicago.
This morning, I ordered 2 gallons of trim paint for my house from Water's Hardware who has my formula in their computer. They said it would be waiting for me at the register. Again, my daughter's eyes widened. "You'd never be able to do that in the Chicago area," she said, "never."
So see? We're luckier than we think we are in so many aspects. Plus, everywhere we went, people were great.
July 24, 2009 at 3:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Hear--Hear YY4U
There are some nice things in this town.....In my opinion the All-Veteran's Memorial, and the David Traylor Zoo top the list. But Peter Pan Park is a wonderful place despite years of city neglect in favor of parks in other parts of town.
More importantly they already exist and are on a scale commensurate with the capabilities of a town this size. I realize it's sometimes hard to be upbeat wwhen your down and out.....but a little more pride in the old berg might go along ways in making us more attractive to others.
I swear sometimes if all people had to judge Emporia on was what they read here....nobody would come here at all.
July 24, 2009 at 3:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
YY4U:
Of course there is stuff here to entertain your guests with, but they came for other purposes (like to visit you, maybe) and those items of local interest are good time fillers. They aren't, however, enough to bring a person here just to look at them. I might add that if the majority of the town was maintained as nicely as those few little places are, this town would be much more attractive to the eyes of industry leaders.
This is a bit off topic, but I've been pondering a landscaping expo: an event that includes vendors, but isn't for selling purposes. It would be a community outreach to teach people ways to inexpensively design and maintain their yards with do-it-yourself projects that use more labor than materials and can be broken down into steps to do gradually over time, never looking unfinished between steps. Tutorials and demonstrations shown throughout the day, say at the fairgrounds, is what it looks like in my head. It amazes me how many people own homes and barely know how to keep their yards mowed, much less attractive. I think that would go a long way in improving the Emporia's appearance and overall morale. Just an idea, but I may run it by the County Extension Office one of these days.
Hey, I got a tourist attraction idea from Friday Thoughts...how about an ark?? :-D
July 24, 2009 at 4:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
alfalfa (anonymous) says...
Compared to much of the rest of the world, Emporia is a nice place. It is a (large town to me but) small town to most of the world, and it is probably going to stay a small town. A few of us, those who are labeled backward, like living in a rural area, if we wanted a thriving metropolis we would head for the KC area. I don't think posters who criticize the visitors center for the most part are doing it because they are not happy with Emporia or think it is a terrible place, they just think the idea of a visitors center is a little overblown.
This entire area is a rural part of a rural state. Lots of us like it that way. You can still be small and prosperous. I think that is the point the movers and shakers of Lyon county(and many others) often miss. Rather than trying to lure in new business, take a look at what you have, ask those owners what is good about the county, and what needs improved. In a capitalistic system, it is up to business to study an area and decide whether or not to locate there, it is not up to the local government to lure them through tax incentives(ie taxpayer money). If the local government strives to make a community as user friendly as possible, then they have done their job, the rest is up to capitalism.
July 24, 2009 at 4:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
AverageCitizen2 (anonymous) says...
Were does the CVB Advisory Board and the Building Futures Goal 8 Committee originate from? How were they formed and by whom? Who are all of the members?
July 24, 2009 at 4:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
This has nothing to do with the issue at hand.....I was just reminded of it while reading oh4theluvof's comments about yard maintenence in conjunction with YY4U's talk of foreign visitors.
If memory serves me.....the main 9/11 hijacker.....I can't think of his name....once said his hatred for America started with what he considered to be the hugh waste of money and pride shown by Americans in their yards. Go Figure>
July 24, 2009 at 4:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
J's Carryout was years ago known as the Duchess drive in and is was a hangout for kids and cars and the old hot rods as they were called back then. That would be a great place for a car enthusiast meeting each month complete with period music and maybe even period dress. What makes the location even better is the current location of Bad OLe Bern's was at that time a Peter Pan Ice cream store.....another hangout for the hot rodders. Both businesses were turnarounds as the kids...me included.....would spend hours "dragging the gut". That was cruising up and down Commercial Street and West Sixth Avenue until the wee hours of the morning.
July 24, 2009 at 5:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
admireed (anonymous) says...
Alfalfa. This is great statement. Could be a long slogan for a city/county commission campaign.
"If the local government strives to make a community as user friendly as possible, then they have done their job, the rest is up to capitalism."
July 24, 2009 at 6:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Never said I was envious or that making money was a bad thing, merely trying to examine why he does not UNDERSTAND the perspective. Go back and reread my post again, nowhere did it state anything other than my opinion of why Mr. Sauder might lack some common sense and restraint on this issue.
July 24, 2009 at 7:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
The old A & W drive in was another great hang out for the young folk and their cars, hotrods, etc.
July 24, 2009 at 8:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
There was also the old COO-COO drive in on the corner of 9th and Merchant, it was also a pretty popular hang out with the car, hotrod crowd. Shoot you could even get a burger for a $.05 .
July 24, 2009 at 8:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justthefacts (anonymous) says...
Courage young Skywalker, we must defeat the death star before it blows up Alderon.
July 25, 2009 at 12:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justthefacts (anonymous) says...
Two vultures were munching on some road kill along Highway 50. One turns to the other and says "Clem, how do we find the next meal?" "Easy" said the other vulture. Just wait around the forums on the Gizzartte until another person tries to make a rational statement and bang! we got lunch"
July 25, 2009 at 12:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
When I first started posting here I was under the mistaken impression that we were having a serious discussion about topical issues. I quickly learned that for most, not all but most, this was nothing more than an ego driven contest to see who could outslam and belittle the other guy.
Unfortunately, over time, I have become much more prone to stoop to that level. It is after all, hard to wrestle with pigs without getting covered in pig s--t.
Two thing keep bringing me back......the handful of people here that I do enjoy visiting with......and a dogged determination not to be run off by those whose idea of a rational debate is full frontal assault. The military learned the lunacy of that concept during WW-I.
.
July 25, 2009 at 3:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
brightliner (anonymous) says...
“There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why... I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?” Robert Francis Kennedy quote ...
Evidently young Mr. Sauder and Ms. Senn are guilty of wondering "why not."
That obviously doesn't fit the prevailing attitude of those who frequent these spaces.
July 25, 2009 at 4:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
brightliner
I believe the intended purpose of this forum was to provide space for a sharing of ideas.....which should...and often does....entail constructive criticism. I have no problem with the constructive criticism of the plan....in fact I believe there is ample room for such.
MY problem lies with the personal attack mode of debate so often withnessed here, and the general negativity towards everything expressed by some.
On a side note...I recently paraphrased the qoute you just used....and incorrectly attributed it to John Kennedy. It is a wonderful quote however. Unfortunately, I agree with you that the quickest way to open your self up to the attack of the negative naybobs on here is to express its ideals.
July 25, 2009 at 6:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Justthefacts,
Don't understand your vulture comment.
Please explain?
July 25, 2009 at 7:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Wen't back and looked at the proposed city budget.
Under General Fund Capital Outlay;
Parks,
Hammond park Landscape 18th & Merchant $30,000.00
Landscaping at city highway entrances $100,500.00
Seems like this has already been budgeted for 2010.
July 25, 2009 at 7:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
I too believe that this forum does allow for constructive criticism. Naysaying and personal attacks aside, I have read many good ideas introduced here, ideas that bear looking into or giving fruition. Often, we even hear solid ideas from people who don't always post.
There seems to be more thinking going on as a result of this forum than would otherwise be shared in any other venue. Certainly the broad audience is a plus. I believe anonymity has a good deal to do with that because people feel more free to discuss their ideas, yay or nay, behind a screen name.
This has been a good thread.
July 25, 2009 at 8:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
brightliner
It is not so much a question of why not ? But rather a question of how much, and who is going to pay and can it be afforded right now and with the infrastructure of Emporia crumbling around us, why a visitors center or miniature diorama of the Flinthills is needed or even thought of or pushed for right at this trying time.
And has Mr. Sauder and Ms. Senn looked at and studied the City and County Budget and comprehended the impact that a possible large mil levy increase may have on the common people of Emporia or the City of Emporia itself ?
I and others on this thread are not attacking anyone for their vision or ideas. But times are tough right now and from the looks of the City and County Budgets, times may get even leaner and tougher for most of us and we believe that right now is not the time to push for spending money, foolishly on a visitors center, when repair or replacement of streets, sewers, water mains, sidewalks and other necessities to the infrastructure of Emporia are needed worse than a visitors center, not to mention a need for more jobs.
I think that what all most of us on here are saying is, there needs to be a real effort to prioratize the Citys and Countys essential needs and spend money wisely on those essential needs and not throw money away, on foolish endeavors and purchases that will not benefit everyone who' s hard earned money goes for taxes to pay for all of it.
July 25, 2009 at 9:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
rbow
The two items that you mentioned that are on the Citys budget are two of the items that I have red inked as not being an absolute necessity to spend money on.
As a matter of fact I have red inked quite a few things I deem as not absolutly a necessary and things I can do without.
And I agree there are a number of thing the City and County subsidize that need to be dropped off the subsidy list. If these things/organizations want funding let them ask for public donations .
July 25, 2009 at 9:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
What some people have a hard time comprehending is the fact that the more jobs there are and the bigger the jobs base, the more tax revenue there will be and therefore the more money the City and County will have to accomplish the things that are needed and then if there is any money left over after essential expenses, there can be consideration given to frills and extras, within reason that is !
Can anyone say with conviction, that a visitors center will definately bring more jobs to Emporia and expand the jobs base in Emporia ?
Can anyone say with any certainty that any prospective industry or retail business does not look at how the infrastructure of a City and County is maintained and what the tax burden of the Citys and Countys citizens is and whether that City or County spends its tax dollars wisely, on maintaing the infrastructure or spends it tax dollars foolishly, so its citizens and businesses are unnecessarily burdened with a high tax burden, instead of working to lower its citizens and businesses tax burden ?
July 25, 2009 at 9:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
"Do you think the city should create a new welcome/rest area next to the new turnpike interchange?
Thanks for your vote.
Yes 28% 88 votes
No 67% 208 votes
Undecided 3% 11 votes"
I think people get frustrated when it is apparent that this is not a popular idea but the powers that be don't seem to be listening. They just pat us on the head and say, "Poor little dumb thing. You just need to listen to me cuz I'm so and so." Then you have the cheerleaders who will go along with what ever so and so says and they put up some sappy quote to try to turn peoples caution into blind optimism. Not goin' to happen. Nope. Not today. Not to this guy. Outside of these forums I have to live in the real world. goodoleboy's reflection in an earlier post was right on. I don't think he met it as a slam just an observation. Someone born with a silver spoon in there mouth can not see the world as we on the other end of the spectrum see it, but they(country club crowd) tend to put their ideas out there all the time for all to see so we(the unwashed masses) have a pretty good idea of how they see the world. Do you want to know what we the people think? The pole is a pretty good indicator and you don't have to put up with people joking around and trying to enjoy life a little. Sorry for offending your delicate sensibilities.
"Glug. Glug, Glug................. Buuuurrrrpppp. Oh I have a head ache."
Ted Kennedy
July 25, 2009 at 9:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justthefacts (anonymous) says...
It was said better than I could already. Those who dare to be a bit different or have a different view wind up as roadkill around here.
July 25, 2009 at 10:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
brightliner (anonymous) says...
“There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why... I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?” Robert Francis Kennedy quote ...
Some understand and some..... well they usually complain a lot.
July 25, 2009 at 11:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
rah-rah-sis-boom-bah
July 25, 2009 at 11:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
I'm probably really going to regret saying this but here goes.
This discussion is begining to remind me a lot of another discussion we are having in this country right now......health care. Virtually everyone agrees that the system we have now is in serious need of repair. It works well for a very few.....just barely works [if your lucky] for many......and doesn't work at all for the rest. Yet every attempt to change it is met with a chorus of we can't afford it.....it might not help.....it might be worse.....what's in it for me.....and on and on and on. So we end up doing nothing then we fall right back into wailing about the system being broken.
I am not necesssarily saying that either plan in question is the best one we could have.....but people if we are never willing to try new things.....to think outside the envelope.....to break out of the mold......nothing will ever change.
If the human race was always as reluctent to anything new as some of you appear to be.....we would all still be living in a cave.
July 25, 2009 at 11:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
My above comment is intended just as much for the ones that are married to this visitors center proposal as the only viable idea.....as it is aimed at those that claim that this is the time to bunker down and wait for things to magically get better.
July 25, 2009 at 12:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
biscuitboy,
Here goes
I am not against this idea because of who presented it, I am against it because I know who will end up paying for it. Me!
Government does serve a purpose in all of our lives, but it shouldn't serve every purpose in everyones lives.
I don't want to bunker down and wait for things to magically to get better. I want myself and others, (we the people), to work with government to get better. That means working hard and voicing our opinions on government spending and the results, or lack thereof.
If this visitors center is such a good idea, then private funds should be used for it.
There are things that our governments fund and provides for the masses that while admirable, I don't agree with. All the while paying taxes to support projects I don't agree with, I am left with less diposable income to help those I find important, not to mention live on.
Someone on one of these threads mentioned leaving our children and grandchildren some kind of "legacy" to be proud of.
It is beginning to look like the only legacy we will leave behind , is a mountain of debt built on good intentions.
Steve
July 25, 2009 at 1:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
So, biscuitboy, you are in favor of dropping who knows how much money, right now, into this visitors center idea, of a miniature diorama of the flint hills, no matter the cost and it will not matter how much it will cost you in higher taxes, etc., just as long as its something new !
I move that you run for City or County Commissioner, will anyone second the motion.
July 25, 2009 at 1:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Meth,
Calm down.
While we cant always agree all the time, I know biscuitboy and would be happy to have him as a commissioner. Heck, if we could get both of you on the commission it would make for good government and a good time.
July 25, 2009 at 1:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
justthefacts,
In case you don't know it. Those of us who wish to curtail spending our money foolishly are thinking of a new concept of not spending taxpaying citizens money on needless, frivolous things.
July 25, 2009 at 1:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Throw 1 more "old dog" into the mix and I could imagine the commission meetings ending up like those South Korean parliment videos playing on the new lately:)
July 25, 2009 at 1:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
AverageCitizen2 (anonymous) says...
I just went to rent videos from Hastings and found that they are closing on August 1. One more business leaving Emporia and more people unemployed.
July 25, 2009 at 1:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Shoot, I don't think anyone would want me as a commissioner, because I may be so frugal, we would all be living in caves and have more money in our own pockets.
I am so frugal that I didn' t purchase another car for 18 years, just maintained the old one in good condition, which I still have and am still driving and maintaining a 1973 pick up and living and trying to maintain an almost 100 year old house.
So I am not progressive or forward or new looking enough or would be willing to spend enough for this City or County !
In fact I am so frugal and backward looking, I may not even attend the next budget hearings ! I am so fed up with the spend, spend, idiotic ideas that are supposed to be progressive and forward looking !
I can see by the talk and views, that this stupid visitors center will become a reality, just like all the past things that benefited noone and yet cost everyone money.
So I am just going to set back, be my frugal self and if the City budget, the County budget and this visitors center idea becomes a reality, everyone is going to have to learn to be frugal in order to survive the financial storm that is inevitably coming to Emporia and Lyon County .
So my friends, good luck at the next City and County budget hearings ! I leave it in your hands.
July 25, 2009 at 1:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
solong (anonymous) says...
While Mr. Sauder's energies are commendable on trying to make Emporia a more attractive place I would have to agree with goodoleboy in that we need to focus more on building a foundation for the future of Emporia than waste time and money on a visitor's center. Attract business out there and let them develop the area, create jobs that will keep our children here instead of watching them to many of them move to K.C. Also, a Flint Hills like setting in the midst of overpasses, interstates, truck and train traffic, surely there is a better spot for something like that. Emporia needs jobs for our children instead of experiments, we need to take some bold steps that will insure a successful future for our city and provide our children with something more than debt.
July 25, 2009 at 1:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
I in no way ever intended my post to be a blanket endorsement of anything...and especially not of the visitors center. I was early in my opposition to that idea and remain that way to day. You might want to consider stepping down off your high-horse for a moment methusla.
But Emporia.....as with much of the rest of the country....is hurting right now for jobs. There is an old saying that it takes money to make money...and that certainly applies to the creation of jobs. Well I at the moment am not seeing any great pile of private capital just waiting to be put to work. In the absence of such capital about the only other alternative is government money.
We are at the brink of this old town going over the edge into a downward spiral from which it might not ever recover. Consequently we may soon have to choose weather to go ahead and look to government capital [even though we don't really believe that is the role of government] or just let the old town die from lack of support.
And no thank you my friend.....I have no interest in that thankless job.
July 25, 2009 at 1:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
methusla.......Your frugality is admireable......I think? But if everyone was a frugal as you the auto manufactures.....construction companies.... and most of the rest of the business base would have gone broke years ago leaving none of us with any jobs.
I'm reminded of a sugn that hung on the wall of a businss in Wichita I used to frequent.
It read:
.......You pay me, so I can pay them, so they can pay you, so you can pay me.
If nobody spends money,,,,,,nobody makes money!
July 25, 2009 at 2:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
No more comments from me. I just fell of my high horse and broke my common sense and logic.
July 25, 2009 at 2:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
How true YY4U.......and in no place is that more apparent than in our drug enforcement laws. But much the same is true in education. We require degrees in areas where on-the-job training would be preferable......why because the colleges and universities support the law makers and business that in turn require degrees for more and more types of jobs. You scratch my back.....I'll scratch yours
But the prevelence of that kind of thinking is what fueled the booming economy that we were all so proud of until the bubble burst. Now our choice is to try to kick start that process again....where the present economy is supported by future growth.....or to revert to a no-growth economy where we all live strictly off our means and have little expectation of better. But you can't have both.
July 25, 2009 at 2:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
I think the "Welcome to Emporia"kiosk/drug and alcohol rehab center is a great idea!
July 25, 2009 at 2:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
methusla.......I personally have no desire to see you quit posting and I'm certain many others feel the same. But if you had read through both parts of the post...you would have seen that I specified the visitor center plan as objectionable.
But I stand behind my believe that you can't move forward by standing still.
rbow......I love those South Korean Parliment videos.....now that's participatory democracy at its lowest common denominator. :-)
July 25, 2009 at 2:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Last and final post.
fru·gal
Pronunciation:\ˈfrü-gəl\
Function:adjective
Etymology:Middle French or Latin; Middle French, from Latin frugalis virtuous, frugal, from frug-, frux fruit, value; akin to Latin frui to enjoy
Date:1590
: characterized by or reflecting economy in the use of resources
fru·gal (fro̵̅o̅′gəl)
adjective
1.not wasteful; not spending freely or unnecessarily; thrifty; economical
2.not costly or luxurious; inexpensive or meager a frugal meal
July 25, 2009 at 3:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
P.S. being frugal and prudent is not standing still. Thats all folks ! Goodbye.
July 25, 2009 at 3:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Very good points, YY. Now we need data and data interpreters to reveal whether or not programs are effective.
Sounds like you might want to get involved in Community Corrections. They always need more volunteers for the advisory board. It meets once a month.
July 25, 2009 at 3:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
alfalfa (anonymous) says...
Biscuitboy brings up the healthcare issue, I wish the Gazette would start an open forum on that and leave it there regardless of the number of posts it gets to, because I think it is one of the most important issues ever, and I would like to see what the concensus is amongst area "thinkers" as to what needs to be done.
July 25, 2009 at 8:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Matt66647 (anonymous) says...
Hey, I've got an idea...let's check with the new Visitors Center in Olathe - right off of I-35.
How are they doing? How many visitors do they get?
July 25, 2009 at 8:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
alfalfa, I think we can start a discussion thread on the news forum. Let me see.
July 25, 2009 at 8:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Matt66647 (anonymous) says...
Darn It...we're too late! They've already closed it down, shuttered it...Hundreds of Thousands in taxpayer funds lost & wasted!
When will we ever learn? Or will we?
July 25, 2009 at 8:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
alfalfa,
I started a new thread on the news forum about health care reform legislation. I did not state an opinion, but I just opened up a discussion so it can get going. I'll have something to contribute soon.
Okay, everyone, now's your chance to air your views. Go to the news forum.
July 25, 2009 at 8:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
matt66647,
any links to stories on that center in Olathe? would be interesting to know about it before our city budget meeting.
July 26, 2009 at 7:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
roger (anonymous) says...
What this city needs is jobs. I suggest a wind generator on this site built in one of our own factories. This city could become a new manufacturing base for the wind generating industry. You have the railhead and major hiway connections. You could attract outside investment and jump start our economy. There is room for factories for everything from single home generating windmills up to the components for huge industrial wind generators. Attract small green businesses making solar panels or electric bicycles. Get the biodiesel plant up and producing. The future is in renewable energy so get in now. Make Emporia known for something that will help it and our whole country. Start an ethanol plant and feed the leftover cornmeal to the dogfood plant and maybe even a tortillio factory. The old Modine factory could be retrofitted to build electrical components. Emporia could be like the silicone valley for renewable energy. Then you could afford any type visitor center you wanted.
July 27, 2009 at 9:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
roger.....Im not trying to be a naysayer here.....most of your points are good ones.....and some people have put some significant effort into trying to make some of them happen. Of course the bug-a-boo is the competition for these things is intense with hundreds, if not thousands, of communities all seeking the same thing. Huchtinson put millions of dollars in perks and incentives on the line to get their new factory.
Emporia's leadership has so far been unable to achieve any great success in this area for reasons unknown to me. It may be no more that a lack of good luck so far. But Emporia...along with the rest of the United States.....may also be starting to learn that you can't maintain a vibrant economy long without a strong manufacturing base.
Maybe some of these brainchild CEO's could figure out a way to bring back some of the manufacturing base they shipped off-shore over the past several decades.
The only part of your post I dispute is the ethanol plant using corn. That concept has been pretty much discredited because of its effect on global food prices.
July 28, 2009 at 4:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
One important point I left out of my preceeding post was my continued belief that a visitors center such as the one proposed would do nothing to help bring those much needed significant jobs here. Therefore I remain oppossed to spending any public money on what I consider to be nothing more than a little fluff piece at this time. Spend that money to wine and dine a couple of site selection people for some big industries.....throw in a few million in incentives.....and we might get lucky.
July 28, 2009 at 5:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
roger (anonymous) says...
Biscuit boy, food prices indeed went up but it has little to do with ethanol plants. That was just an excuse to raise prices. Corn prices are back down and have you noticed the price of food dropping? Make the ethanol and the corn still has much of its food value. Actually it can be the start of food processing that will help. Every gallon of ethanol that is produced is just that much less oil we need to import. It can be very profitable if done correctly. We don't have to just use corn, there are other ways to produce alternative fuels.
July 28, 2009 at 10:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
giggles (anonymous) says...
roger, before our financial crisis was an official crisis, corn was truly affecting the global food prices. Corn may be down now, but the financial crisis has upheld the food prices. Ethanol produced using switch grass was proven to be a much better source. It is far cheaper and leaves the corn for food. Perhaps this helps in your scenario.
July 28, 2009 at 11:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
I don't know the specifics of ethanol production.....but I have heard from a variety of sources that there are many other things that can be used for it's production other than corn. My belief is we shuld persue some of them first before diverting a food product into something else. That's all.
July 28, 2009 at 12:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )