A whistle in the distance
Thursday, July 16, 2009
About a year ago, the Northern Flyer Alliance held a meeting in Emporia to promote the idea of returning passenger rail service to the community. The alliance wants service between Kansas City and Oklahoma City, to connect with the Heartland Flyer, which runs from Fort Worth, Texas, to Oklahoma City. The route would include the Burlington Northern Santa Fe tracks through Emporia.
The Northern Flyer proposal sounded good and made sense, but seemed doomed by lack of sufficient enthusiasm in state legislatures, which would have to do some work and provide some money for the project.
A year has passed, and things have changed. There has been an election and a recession, and both of these events have increased the likelihood that Emporia will see passenger service again. The election placed a new administration in power in Washington, one that is friendly to the idea of reviving the passenger rail network. The recession prompted the massive national stimulus program, providing money for all sorts of infrastructure projects.
Last week, the Kansas Department of Transportation filed for three federal grants totaling more than $17 million to improve passenger service. If the state gets the money, the Northern Flyer will be well on its way to reality.
Most of the money, $10 million, would be used to improve the line from Newton to the Oklahoma border. Another grant, for $7 million, would be used right here to improve tracks from Emporia into Osage County. The third grant, for $500,000, would be for a study of other elements necessary for service between Kansas City and Oklahoma City.
If KDOT gets the grants, it may not be long before Emporia again has its own passenger depot (or at least a shelter where people can wait for trains).
Railroading, after all, is not rocket science. American companies have been building locomotives for 180 years. Rail travel used to be common and convenient.
With the help of those federal grants, it could be again.
Patrick S. Kelley
Editorial Page Editor
Comments
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under_score (anonymous) says...
And Amtrak has been losing money at passenger service for decades. Hopefully, after the grant money is wasted and gone our state and local officials won't continue to throw good money after bad in what is most assuredly a failed venture.
It infuriates me that we are spending grant money on this type of thing and people act as though it is a blessing. If this was a money making proposition then private business would have already taken to it.
July 16, 2009 at 2:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
madpoet (anonymous) says...
Why does Amtrak lose so much money when so many people apparently use it? I never understood that.
July 16, 2009 at 2:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mythoughts (anonymous) says...
I can't wait to have train service! It would make getting places so much easier than having to drive to Lawrence or KC for the train, or fly out of Wichita or KC (or Topeka). It would be great to do weekend trips to somewhere on the line...
July 16, 2009 at 3:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
"Why does Amtrak lose so much money when so many people apparently use it? I never understood that"
Government involvement.
July 16, 2009 at 3:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dale011 (anonymous) says...
Amtrak works well in dense population centers out east, but out here it is less efficient. With that said I would love to be able to hop on a train and go to Ft Worth.
July 16, 2009 at 4:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
arminius (anonymous) says...
This is good news!
More people traveling by train
= fewer out on the roads
= fewer traffic deaths
= more people alive.
That's a blessing by itself.
Of course if people are alive that means they can pay taxes too. It makes sense fiscally as well.
Passenger rail requires government subsidies in every country where it's used... including the European nations.
Let's take the money away from roads, cars, and Detroit and put it into better public transportation. It will make for a better way of life in America.
July 16, 2009 at 4:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
If it does happen, I hope we have decent taxi service. It's not like being in the big city where you can step out into the street to hail a cab.
July 16, 2009 at 4:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
under_score (anonymous) says...
YY4U,
They wouldn't lose money, their rates would go up. If their rates had to go up high enough where people couldn't afford it then they would go out of business. Anyway, you are comparing apples to oranges. The shipping and freight parts of the railroad do well and do not require government handouts to stay in service. It is the passenger part of the service which doesn't work.
July 17, 2009 at 7:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Isn't government funding of the highway contruction industry a form of subsidy to vehicle passanger transportation as well as freight service? Of course it is....But as i have said so often, its hard to call a duck a duck when it looks so much like us.
July 17, 2009 at 7:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Not traveling is uber cheap and its gooder for he environment too also!
Seriously R. Folks
July 17, 2009 at 8:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
paulkersey (anonymous) says...
We have to ask ourselves one question... What would Al Gore do?
In other news, I can't wait to have rail service in Emporia, so I can go spend my hard-earned dollars in Kansas City, Lawrence, Chicago, and Dallas, instead of Empooria!
(I was going to correct the typo, but I think it is not only humorous, but also rings of truth)
July 17, 2009 at 9:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkGhQ3...
July 17, 2009 at 10:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
shoehorn (anonymous) says...
Gasoline tax in Kansas is $.434 per gallon. Diesel fuel tax is $.514 per gallon. Factor in mileage and trucks are paying around twice the tax that cars do. I am curious about the comment by YY4U, "The Airlines have some of those lobbyists too so there are also laws that make Amtrak price their fares comparable to air travel". Do you mean this to say that they have to inflate their prices, or underprice them and take a loss?
July 17, 2009 at 10:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
I wouldn't mind rail travel, if I didn't have to remove my shoes at security.
July 17, 2009 at 10:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
shoehorn (anonymous) says...
I don't mind going somewhere in MY car because I CAN take my shoes off, lol, but at least then it is my call. ;D
July 17, 2009 at 11:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Uh? Please don't. ;)
July 17, 2009 at 11:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
YY4U.....I wasn't intending to disagree with your point about trucks...only to expand on it. While many people decry government subsidy of passenger rail service.....they tend to forget that the entire federal highway system is one government subsidized transportation system for both freight and people.
But we have become so accustomed to our highways...tending to view them as birthright.....we forget that fact.
July 17, 2009 at 12:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
I wonder how much it would take to renovate the old " Pacific " steam locomotive setting in Fremont park back to running order and aquiring a couple of older passanger cars and having steam train excurision trips to surrounding towns.
Possibly naming such a train, " THE CITY OF EMPORIA ".
I know I for one would pay to ride train pulled by a steam loco on an excurtion trip to surround towns, such as Strong City, Osage City, etc., to bring relive the fond memories of my childhood.
I know I am just an old man dreaming impossible dreams, but I can dream can't I.
July 17, 2009 at 12:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
P.S. Now having an old steam powered train running would really be " A whistle in the distance ".
July 17, 2009 at 12:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
methusla...what the world needs is a few more men of dreams like you. You keep on thinking of things that never were and keep on asking Why Not?
My apologies to John F. Kennedy!
July 17, 2009 at 12:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Is there any limit to what some of you think the government should do? It sure as heck far doesn't seem so.
"It's gone, gone, baby it's all gone
There's no one on the corner and there's no one at home
Well it was cool, cool, it was just all cool
Now it's over for me, and it's over for you"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Me6RER...
July 17, 2009 at 1:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
arminius (anonymous) says...
Railroads aren't a thing of the past. They're common-place in Europe, on the East Coast, and in other countries.... including ones with spread-out populations like the U.S. We're just behind the times.
I'm glad Emporia is catching up though.... on the move.
Whatever the initial cost to us, it will save money in the long run. There is nothing more expensive than our current system where every average American has to invest a HUGE portion of their income into cars that depreciate in value, gasoline, maintenance, insurance, and subsidized roads.... all for a mode of transportation that kills 40,000 people a year.
We can do better folks, and we should.
July 17, 2009 at 1:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
http://www.federalbudget.com/
July 17, 2009 at 1:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steamer (anonymous) says...
Thank you Mr. Kelly for this timely article. Being a railfan/train buff, this could be a great asset to the city of Emporia and nearby communities. The former AT&SF Railway and Emporia share a long history with one another and it is too bad that the former depot is only a memory. Amtrak passenger service once again at the depot would have been fantastic!
Train travel to OKC, Ft. Worth, or St. Louis sounds like a great opportunity to see the Midwest by rail to me!
July 17, 2009 at 4:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
methusla, this one's for you, you dreaming man you. Excellent video and superb audio. I sang along and knew all the words. I'll bet many of us on here will too. All along the southbound odyssey, the train pulls into old Olpe...
Say don't you know me, I'm your native son...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfxoM6...
July 18, 2009 at 7:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
I have loved and lived with music my entire life.....and that is one of the few songs that I always remember all the words.
July 18, 2009 at 9:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
create
Excellent, excellent song. As I wrote my post about rebuilding the old steam engine at Freemont park to working condition and thinking of the good old days of my childhood, my eyes became a little moist, as my father, and several uncles were all railroad men and then my eyes became a little moist just now when you mentioned the song " THE CITY OF NEW ORLEANS " and I realized I suggested naming such a renovated train " THE CITY OF EMPORIA ".
Sorry, for the memories and dreams of a " CROTCHITY " old man.
July 18, 2009 at 11:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
When I was eleven or twelve years old or thereabouts, the Santa Fe Railroad moved that old steam locomotive into Freemont Park. We only lived about a block from there and you can imagine the joy of a young boy my age at the wonder to behold.
This was a less litigous time and the city felt no need to fence it off so me and my friends spent countless hours climbing over, under, through, and on top of that old engine until we knew every nut and bolt and valve like the back of our hands. That old rail pretty much owned that summer of my childhood.
Later on vandalism.....and the fear of lawsuits.....caused the city to fence it off and a truly wonderful gift to a young boy became just another rotting hunk of an eyesore But for awhile it was a gift. I'll always love the memories of that old locomotive and will rue the day its rusting hulk is sold off for scrap.
July 18, 2009 at 12:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
b3bill (anonymous) says...
biscuitboy:
Approximately what year was the steam locomotive placed in Freemont Park?
July 18, 2009 at 9:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
b3bill (anonymous) says...
It would be fantastic if Emporia once again got passenger train service. Those who don't care for it wouldn't have to bother with it.
It's too bad The Southwest Chief doesn't stop here any longer. I see no reason why it still can't stop when there are passengers to get on or off (aka a whistle stop). Other Amtrak routes have had whistle stops for years.
July 18, 2009 at 10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
b3bill
If I remember correctly the loco in Fremont Park was placed there sometime in the mid to late 1950s. The caboose was added later, I believe sometime in the early to mid 1960s.
I was wrong about the loco being a " Pacific " class locomotive. After looking at it again today and again being taken back to when I was a young boy, I realized that the loco in Fremont Park is actually a 2-6-2 " Prairie " Class locomotive, which is a smaller locomotive than the 4-6-2 Class locomotive, that was used for medium freight service.
The " Prairie " Class locomotive was used for light duty freight service and on most all railroad branch lines.
Like biscuitboy, I to spen many an hour on the loco in Fremont park, before it was fenced in.
July 18, 2009 at 10:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
b3bill & methusla
Based on the age I remember as being....and the age I am now.....it would have been around the mid-fifties.....but memories, like steam locomotives, are fleeting things.
July 19, 2009 at 3:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
You are so right YY4U it is a shame. I can remember when the railroads still ran those old steam locomotives during peak periods like grain harvest. The sight, the sound, the smell, of those monsterous beasts...once experienced would never be forgotten. They literally shook the earth.
The "smoke, the steam, the cinders"...."the steel wheels rumbling beneath the floor." All the video games and I-Pods in the world could not come close to this experience for pure visceral exitement. It's too damned bad "this train had to disappear from railroad news."
My thanks and apologies to Cherokee Fiddle and The City of New Orleans.
July 19, 2009 at 1:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
b3bill (anonymous) says...
biscuitboy:
Thanks for posting your memories of steam engines being used again during high freight demand. I would loved to have seen that, but it was before my time.
The first steam engine I saw in person was the SP 4449 leading the American Freedom Train. I had the day off school, we got up about 3:30 a.m. that morning in late March, 1976, and drove out west of Clements (sp?) to see it. What an awesome sight and sound!! We could hear it whistling miles away in that cool early spring morning air.
We drove along 4449 all the way to Emporia. Totally stunning to see such a piece of machinery in full operation and all decked-out in it's Freedom Train colors. It stopped at Commercial Street for a while for greasing of the driver bearings and taking on some water. When everything was finished and it was ready to pull out to go to Topeka for display, the sound of it starting out and the powerful deep whistle gave me goose bumps. It was an awesome sight, and yet a bit sad to think it would probably never be through here again.
I'm sure you were there that day if you liked trains, lived around Emporia and had the opportunity. I'll never forget it.
July 19, 2009 at 6:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-0YBr...
July 19, 2009 at 6:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
b3bill
Here are some of the largest steam locomotives I used to love watching as a boy come thru Emporia every day and night.These 4-8-4 Northern Class locomotives main drive wheels were so large and heavy, when the locomotive was first produced that at speed the wheels would actually leave the rails and this caused derailments and severe rail damage from the pounding. The builders of these locomotives developed counter weights that were added to the wheels to keep the loco and its wheel from leaving the track and therefore eliminated the rail damage and derailments. These particular locomotives also held the speed recorded for a made up train, with a string of cars of 108 mph for a long time. Go the following sites and watch, listen and enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1U4eQ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWumve...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgGufd...
July 19, 2009 at 7:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
b3bill (anonymous) says...
seriouslyfolks: Thanks for reminding me of Petticoat Junction. I enjoyed watching the show as a kid.
methusla: Thanks for the 3751 links and the info about the 4-8-4 Northerns. I've seen 3751 in person, what a beauty. It's too bad video equipment wasn't as available back in the day as it is now to have captured the steamer activity through Emporia.
My uncle worked in the Santa Fe yards when the steamers were in use. The most intriguing one to him was Baldwin's Hudson-type #3760 4-6-4, also known as "The Blue Goose". It was the only one of that streamlined style on the ATSF. He said no one really knew how fast it would go because no one was brave enough to open it all the way up.
Do any of you train watchers remember seeing The Blue Goose going through Emporia or any details about it?
July 19, 2009 at 10:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
b3bill (anonymous) says...
I made a typo. It should be #3460, not 3760.
July 19, 2009 at 10:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
I was on the WIBW news once when they were at the railroad days in Topeka. I'm kinda famous. I was in the background, they like havin' a pretty background. Man pretty that is.
Seriously R. Folks
July 19, 2009 at 10:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
b3bill
I recall seeing the " Blue Goose " a couple of times go thru Emporia on its way to Colo.. It was used to pull the Santa Fe Chief from Chicago Ill. to Colorado and was retired in 1950 in lieu of diesel power. Go to the following site and scroll down to 3460 Class 4-6-4 and then click on any one of the 3460 numbers to see pictures of " THE BLUE GOOSE ".
July 19, 2009 at 11:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
methusla,
Thanks, those clips were absolutely terrific! I liked the last one best because it showed so much excitement with keeping up with the great engine in a car. Yes, the dichotomy of transportation, rail and interstate highway. Wow! Awesome is right!!!
You know, as I watched that link, my daughter called from Chicago. They are on the runway waiting to take off on their way to see Grandma in Emporia. Dichotomy indeed!
July 20, 2009 at 8:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
create
I am a very avid railroad fan, since my family history is so steeped in railroading and railroad history.
And must admit that I miss those great living, huffing, puffing, rumbling, snorting, clanking and ground shaking giants of days gone and get all teary eyed and a little choked up watching all the video clips and pictures I can find of those bygone days, especially of my father, mother and family members who have been gone these many years.
Very glad you enjoyed the links.
Sorry, am starting to get a little emotional and need to take a break.
July 20, 2009 at 10:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mimbrinoclyde (anonymous) says...
This is in regards to the possible restoration of Amtrak passenger rail service to and through Emporia from OKC up thru Wichita, Newton, and on to Topeka, Lawrence and KC: The estimated cost of this service, depending on how the equipment is utilized, is very small in comparison of ,say adding another lane through the city limits of Emporia to I35. The pay backs to the cities along this route could be quite good also, provided the cities back it and Amtrak provides good, equipment, service, and good time performance. One should remember that Passenger train service in every country in the world is provided as a public service for the benifit of all and has never been a for profit business since dear old president Ike decided to take the mail contracts and Railway Post Office cars off the trains, thereby eliminating half the employes of the Post Office Department and thereby creating a need for trucks to use the InterState highway system to deliver the Mail. Never mind that the delivery of the mail has never equaled the service and dependability of those mail rail cars. It was, and is, all about geting rid of employees. As one who was fortunate to have visited the beautiful Emporia Santa Fe Depot many times in years past, I can say without a doubt that it was a beautiful depot that should have been saved and used by the city of Emporia. Perhaps had it been it would not have burned and been destroyed! It should have been on the Natl Register of Historic Buildings, as the Newton depot is! The little plexiglass replacement provided by Amtrak was certainly an affront to the citizens of Emporia, though I don,t recall many in your community raising ire. Now I here you would be satisfied with a similar structure, or tin shack, for your people that might want to use the future stop in Emporia. Are the powers that be there going to provide an out house or porta poty also! Does anyone there still have any civic pride enough to demand a nice intro to the downtown area from a train? I certainly hope so! Perhaps someone there has some vision and guts to see that it is done right, even if it cost the city a little money. Certainly when you voted to give land to the Santa Fe for their beautiful station and yards and shops many years ago, your investment has repaid itself many times over. I wish you luck and hope the city fathers have at least a modicum of commitment to providing it,s citizens with good service and facilities!. The old route of the Texas Chief thru Emporia always was a super service, both in equipment, personal and just plain good service. I know many younger folks today don,t know what that is or can be without going to Europe or Japan, but I can tell you from experience that if it,s done right the State of Kansas will have something to be proud of and yes, many people of all ages will ride, enjoy and benifit from this future service!
July 28, 2009 at 7:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
admireed (anonymous) says...
Bring back the Overland Stage too.
July 28, 2009 at 7:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
The old depot was quite the place and it was a sad day for me when it burned.....was probably a crime also.
I have many memories of starting and ending facinating jouneys from that depot.
July 29, 2009 at 4:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
glarson (Gwen Larson) says...
To a forum:
http://www.emporiagazette.com/forums/...
July 31, 2009 at 6:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )