Water meters
Mike Mercer, Emporia
Thursday, July 16, 2009
I read with interest the city manager’s article about our water meters running slow, supposedly contributing to the city’s water loss rate. This rate has jumped to more than 25 percent, and estimates are that two-thirds to three-quarters of this is because of slow meters. Are you estimating then that only one-third to one-quarter of this rate loss is due to faulty water mains and water main lines then?
A water meter is a simple piece of machinery — maybe 14 parts altogether — and I am not sure how they could possibly get gummed up and run slow. As water is needed, it pushes through the meter, it spins a rotor that spins a drive shaft which turns your usage gauge. Pretty simple.
I believe that water meters have calibration vanes on them, and very seldom get out of calibration. Let me ask you this: When you have a slow leak from your toilet tank into your toilet bowl, you know that irritating sound of water running? Or how about when you have a drippy faucet, does your water bill not go up? Yes, it does, because water meters are designed to measure as low as one-eighth gallon per minute. So if meters are running slow, how do they possibly pick these little leaks up?
I really hope we investigate this and get solid proof that the meters are running slowly, before you spend that kind of money to replace meters.
Mike Mercer
Emporia
madpoet (anonymous) says...
Excellent point! I wondered the same thing myself. Any excuse to spend taxpayer dollars. OF COURSE we need to most high tech gadget out there. That's the deal, they want to ones with transmittors in them. Our electric meter is that way now so the coop doesn't have to rely on us reading it anymore. I can see it for a rural area but Emporia isn't so big a few people couldn't read the meters once a month for way less than fancy new meters.
July 16, 2009 at 2:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
admireed (anonymous) says...
Let us people who post here volunteer to have our meters replaced first and see if they might be "slow".
July 16, 2009 at 2:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
madpoet (anonymous) says...
I'm pretty sure it wouldn't make a difference. I'm in the county so it wouldn't affect me anyway. The electric coop claimed electric meters only slowed with age, too, when we complained about a sudden unexplained increase in our usage. I still don't buy that one, either.
July 16, 2009 at 2:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dale011 (anonymous) says...
Water meters are supposed to be replaced at 1 million gallons or ten years to prevent improper readings. They wear out just like anything else. If they have not been replaced as they should they are not giving accurate readings.
July 16, 2009 at 4:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
The utility companies encourage us to conserve our usage to reduce our cost......then when we do they either raise the rates or put in a new meter......bottom line.....we end up payingf as much or more than we did before.
Does anybody really think these compaanies are just going to set and watch their revunues shrink? They will get it back one way or another.
July 16, 2009 at 5:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
netloafer (anonymous) says...
One of the catalysts for Prop 13 in California was water usage. In times when there was a severe water shortage the state legislature passed an initiative that increased rates for use beyond what state analysts considered reasonable. For points beyond that a surcharge was attached to the monthly bills. The result was conservation that took use far below even what analysts considered reasonable. The rains came, followed by a budget crunch. The state was stymied until some brilliant soul came up with a non use tax. That is, people were taxed when they didn't use what the state deemed to be enough water.
If we don't think some clever city employee is dreaming about something like this, we are deluding ourselves. Push is coming to shove and the city, the county, and the school board are going to wring the money from us somehow.
July 16, 2009 at 7:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
As I said before on another thread. Back when my father worked for the City of Emporia, water department, one of his jobs was to check the accuracy of water meters and replace those that were not working properly and replace them with either a new one or a rebuilt one if possible.
There was a water department employee who was trained and certified to clean, repair and rebuild water meters that could be repaired or rebuilt !
Evidently the City has gotten away from the practice of preventative maintenance and replacement and gone to spending money just for replacement .
And biscuitboy is exactly on the nail head target. There is no way if you think about conservation of either, water, electricity, gas, etc. your bill will get lower. The companies or municipalities that provide these services will raise the rates at the first sign of a loss of revenues.
As a matter of fact, at Tuesdays public budget hearing, Matt Zimmerman said there would be a substantial raise in water rates in the future. And the reason is they believe that there unexplained water loss due to either, evaporation, leaking water mains or slow meters.
I believe that there needs to be, first a concerted effort of thoroughly checking water mains for condition and leaks of all sizes. Then reimplement a preventative maintenance program of testing, inspection, cleaning, repair and rebuilding ( if possible ) existing water meters. Of course there is going to evaporation of water at the water treatment plant, with all the open water setteling basins, etc. exposed to the evaporation process. But there is nothing that can be done about that, unless you want to spend millions of dollars completely enclosing those exposed basins.
July 16, 2009 at 8:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
They replaced our meter a few years ago and our bills went up significantly. Most people are very surprised at the amount of our monthly bills, but the city, of course, says it's the accurate measurement and that we use more than we think we do. I am a skeptic, but can't wait for them to replace it again and be billed even more.
July 16, 2009 at 8:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
spectator (anonymous) says...
The city, aka C.M & commissioners, are looking for ANYTHING to generate money by hook or by crook. I've heard that retired city employees can stay on the city health insurance plan as long as the ex-employee pays the entire bill. Fair enough. Kansas statute allows the city to charge up to a 25% surcharge to these people who devoted their careers to the city. For the first time EVER, the first time in the city's history, EVER, the C.M & commissioners elected to act on this law for the 2009 year and retirees pay an additional 20%. Yes, it's legal. Ethical, maybe, but remember, they'll do anything to squeeze whatever money they can get out of anyone. Good old city government. Ever wonder why 200+ years of experience retired December 2008? Speculation only, but were these people finally tired of the politics they had seen but couldn't talk about?
July 17, 2009 at 1:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
YY4U:
How much is that permit? ;)
July 17, 2009 at 1:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
YY4U
I am not even sure the City will allow you to even drill a well in the City.
Years & Years ago when I was about 10 or 12 years old, I witched for a well in my parents back yard and found a spot that indicated water. My father & I dug/drilled a well by hand with a 4" or 6" hand operated post hole auger. Went down about 34 feet and sure enough struck water. It is a good well and has never been pumped dry and will still produce water today.
But this was done at time in the City of Emporia, when there were not so many rules and codes in affect.
July 17, 2009 at 9:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCIpL7...
The Meters
July 17, 2009 at 10:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSNuqX...
water? well?
July 17, 2009 at 10:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
TP (anonymous) says...
It's illegal in the city of emporia to have a well unless it was grandfathered in a long time ago.
July 17, 2009 at 11:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
The Neosho river.......which is "subsidized" by water from Council Grove reservoir and a backup system from Kahola Lake.
July 17, 2009 at 12:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
madpoet (anonymous) says...
I guess I will find out about new meters, after all. I lost water and stepped outside to yell at the rwd worker at the shut off valve across the road only to find a man laying on the ground elbow deep in my meter hole. He was installing a new meter with an antenna on it. I was rather peeved he walked right past our door and didn't knock to let us know he was doing anything. Thank goodness I didn't flush the toilet right then and ruin the darn thing. Apparently, the city got the idea of these new meters from the rural water district. It makes sense for the rural areas not to have to stop and look at each one but the city of Emporia isn't that large and the houses are close together. We'll see if we use more than the 4,000 or so gallons a month that we used to. The most we've used was 6000 one very dry summer spent watering all the trees and shrubs.
July 18, 2009 at 11:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
barefootin (anonymous) says...
I live in town and would like to find out if I have underground water on my property that can use for watering the yard, does anyone on this forum know how I can find the water if its here?
July 18, 2009 at 11:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
barefootin
I am not sure how water is found in todays world. I do no that years ago there used to be people that had the ability to either do what was called dowse or what was called in common terms witch for water.
I used to have the ability when I was a boy, but that was some 50 to 60 years ago. I haven' t tried to witch for water since.
July 18, 2009 at 1:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
barefootin
Here is a sight that tells how underground aquifers are found.
http://ga.water.usgs.gov/edu/gwhowtof...
July 18, 2009 at 1:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
barefootin (anonymous) says...
Thanks!
July 18, 2009 at 5:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
My uncle found oil on his property when he was hunting. He was shootin' at some food and up from the ground came a bubblin' crude. The same should work for water. Just go out and start a shootin' but don't shoot one of your bare feet.
Seriously R. Folks
Now with extra folksy!
(don't actually try this at home?)
July 18, 2009 at 6:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Or you could let you grass grow out of control and work at your own pace under it's cover.
July 18, 2009 at 8:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
barefootin (anonymous) says...
Heres water dowsing on you tube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_zsLy...
July 19, 2009 at 8:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
barefootin (anonymous) says...
YY4U, Thanks for the fun tips, before I start digging in my yard, I'm going to start exercising and practice my fence climbing skills :) When I strike fresh water in my yard, I'll yell "Whoo Hooo" loud enough for the entire town to hear and know I found the good stuff!
July 20, 2009 at 8:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )