The Lyon County Commission chambers were packed during Thursday’s Lyon County Commission action session due to 2010 budget discussions.
At first pass of the budget, the county is looking at a 15 1/2-mill increase due to decreased sales tax and decreased revenue in the county, said Dan Slater, Lyon County controller.
“A 15-mill increase is not even close to acceptable,” Slater said. “It’s just not feasible.”
Slater said if there is no cash carry forward from leftover money from budgets at the end of the 2009, 2010 will have to be funded entirely via ad velour sales tax.
Bob Agler of A&M Consultants suggested the county look at 2009 budgets instead of looking solely at 2010 budgets.
“I personally think we are cutting ourselves short if we only think about doing something in 2010...” Agler said.
Agler said there aren’t any easy solutions to the problem.
“It is a serious situation and I would like to see not only what we can do six months from now but what we can do today,” he said.
Agler added that the county may have to take other measures as well.
“We might have to think outside the box and separate what is mandated and what is not mandated because if it’s not mandated there’s probably an opportunity to do something about it,” he said.
Commission Vice-Chairman Rollie Martin said it boils down to needs and wants.
“Just ask that simple question,” Martin said. “I think that’s what we’re going to have to do, get to the core services the county provides and work outward.”
Martin added that the county and department heads should keep a positive attitude during the process and departments should work together to help remedy the problem.
Prior to the budget discussion, KB Thomas, Emporia resident, addressed commissioners and suggested furloughs for all employees to help cut costs. The discussion came back up during the budget discussions but with the understanding that the idea did not come from county commissioners.
“None of the commission said anything about furloughs,” Commission Chairman Scott Briggs said. “If you mention furloughs you are going to have reduced services. Personally I don’t see it yet myself. I think it’s something we should look into but I’m not sure that’s the right way to go...”
Slater agreed.
“Our job is to serve the public,” he said. “We have an obligation to serve them the best we can. If you start cutting staff, furloughing staff and cutting hours are we still serving the public?”
Commissioner Teresa Walters said furloughs have not been discussed.
“We are in the business to service the community,” she said. “To use those tax dollars we get from them and serve them. If you talk about hacking back employees you’re going to be cutting services. ... It’s not been at the top of my list as a way to solve the problem.”
Many department heads were present at the meeting Thursday morning to discuss budgets. Martin said that is the first step — involving the department heads.
“We need your input,” he said. “We need your help within your own departments with your own expertise...”
Toward the end of the discussion, Briggs said while a 15-mill increase isn’t acceptable, he doesn’t see the mill levy staying flat either.
“I see no way we can keep the mill levy flat,” he said. “I see no way that can possibly work.”
dale011 (anonymous) says...
Gee, maybe we shouldn't have built the Taj Mahal on Commercial Street.
July 16, 2009 at 4:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
giggles (anonymous) says...
Seriously, cutting back on employees should be an option. Cutting some service time has to be considered when the budget is not balanced. If not that then a cut in pay across the board. Everyone still works, just for less money, better than no job at all.
Everyone will have to make sacrafices, those in the private sector already have, city and county should not and can not be any different at this time. You do what you can with what you have. Keep it simple people.
July 16, 2009 at 4:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sadinemporia (anonymous) says...
Sell the courthouse, keep the fairgrounds! That's how it goes right? Get a new slogan, that has been around for, gee, 7 years? Let's hear something new!
July 16, 2009 at 4:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
admireed (anonymous) says...
Thank you sad.
July 16, 2009 at 4:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scarlett01_98 (anonymous) says...
As I write this I realize that I'm going to get beat up for my view. I also know times are really bad and everyone has a tight budget. However, there some services that need to be funded and if property taxes have to be raised, then they maybe they should be raised. Living out in the county, services are limited, and seeing those services removed or cut back could cause serious problems. There have been times when a sheriff, or an ambulance was needed and it took more than 30 minutes for them to arrive. Maybe there might be an alternative to cutting services. Just my opinion.......
July 16, 2009 at 7:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Folks, I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so .
There are those of us who can barely afford the tax burden we all ready have. A 15.5 mil levy increase would be disasterous for many. Shoot I believe even a 2 or 3 mil levy would be difficult for many.
July 16, 2009 at 9:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
scarletto_9
Part of living in the country is slower response time for emergency services. If you live 20 miles from the police dept., it will take longer for them to get there than if you lived two blocks from the police dept. Wouldn't it be great if we all had our own private security guard to watch over us? You may choose to live in the country, because of the benefits of rural living. If you do, don't expect the rest of us to pay for the same services for you that we enjoy. Not piling on, just stating a fact, something that is in short supply now-days.
July 16, 2009 at 10:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
I stand by my earlier statement:
Government should provide fire, law , street, trash and water and waste services, everything else is fluff. To the city and county commissioners don't worry about re-election, do what is right, cut the budgets and save our county/city from bankruptcy. It's been proven that no-one else wants your jobs, so do what's right and cut. cut. cut.
July 16, 2009 at 10:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
The voters passed a 1% sales tax for Lyon county and Emporia. 1/2 of that was to keep the mill levy down. to now even discuss raising the mil-levy by 15.5 is inexcusable. It is time to CUT, not keep the same or raise but Cut.
We as private citizens have had to, it is time for government to do so also. As a private citizen I could cut a million or more from both the city and county budgets, if that was my job. Wouldn't be the most popular person in the area,but i would be doing the job I was HIRED for . YOU ARE NOT PAID MUCH FOR THE JOB YOU WERE ELECTED TO DO , BUT DON'T USE THAT AS AN EXCUSE NOT TO DO THE JOB.
Sorry for being so blunt but somone had to say it.
July 16, 2009 at 10:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Paccifier (anonymous) says...
Maybe Steve is right in part, but perhaps the way to start looking at the budget is to look at those items that are mandated, or necessary, like law enforcement (officers on the ground), ambulance, water, etc and fund them first, then see what money is left, then prioritize how to spend that balance. When the 2010 estimated revenue is out, the budget spending stops.
Not picking on the alcohol tax receipts, or the recipient agencies, but if the expected receipts are down, no matter how much, then only alot the expected amount to be received, and don't augment the lost amount from general fund receipts. If EDA, ESU, et al get less money, so be it, unfortunate as it is, they might have to do with less money to make sure that the greater needs city & county wide are met first.
And remember, the largest portion of taxes paid by Emporians is not to the city, state or county, it is to USD 253.
July 16, 2009 at 10:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Paccifier, agreed and the next budget meeting of USD will be better attended:)
July 16, 2009 at 10:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
alfalfa (anonymous) says...
Not saying this makes anything better, but probably every county in the nation is facing a similar situation. So are schools, towns, etc. Alot of tough decisions are going to have to be made in the next couple of months.
July 16, 2009 at 11:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justthefacts (anonymous) says...
I'm glad someone finally pointed out where the majority of the tax dollars go. Perhaps we can go to a 3 day school week. Just something to consider...when you cut back on government employee income and furlough you will not only cut back on whatever "savings" you might get but that will be fewer dollars spent at local businesses, more foreclosures and unlike the private sector, there is still a demand for especially public safety jobs. Cut back on these folks and the good ones will go elsewhere. You get what you pay for.
After 15 years of no new taxes there isn't much left other than basic services to cut. Having been in both the private and public sectors, I'll tell you that public sector people at the local level have damned little to work with. The days of secured retirement benefits are gone and the security blanket that used to bring people to public service to put up with all the garbage like is spewed here by many without a clue to the real word, is gone. That's why it's darned hard to get people here. The city public works department here used to have 25 employees. Now they have five. The police department here has fewer total employees now than they did in 1990. It is my understanding this reduction is pervasive throughout the city government in Emporia based on my discussions with line employees I talk to socially.
Before you damn the people who work for you, why don't you be a good "employer" and go spend a day with them and see what they do and what quality work they provide for darned little money.
Go ahead and slice away but don't cry when your house burns down, your home or business gets broken into, there are no recreational activities, the population falls by 10,000 because nobody wants to live in a pudunk town with a bunch of small thinking, limited vision hicks
July 17, 2009 at 9:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Justthefacts;
Don't know where you have lived for the last 15 years but it sure ain't here. No new taxes??????? How did Emporia get to a 7.8% sales tax rate. Wasn't there a tax hike to pay for the courthouse, swimming pool? Hasn't there been yearly rate/ user tax increases for water sewer, and refuse service? Hasn't the county mil levy gone up almost every year, (not last year)? Hasn't the appraised value on your property raised almost every year but this one? This small thinking, limited vision hick isn't damning all public employees. I also don't think "we are getting what we are paying for". I would not bet the farm on it but if you, (justhefacts) would like to check, the city and county budgets have increased every year for the past 15. So did my private budget. The economy now demands that I adjust my budget, the city and county need to do the same.
"small thinking", I don't think so. Just thinking.
July 17, 2009 at 10:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
spectator (anonymous) says...
justthefacts, you are spot on the target. Two guys comprise the street department. That's probably why the streets are in such terrible condition. Remember when the street department actually repaired the streets? Then a CM and some commissioners decided it'd be *cheaper* to outsource that department and simply do away with the street department workers and equipment. It won't take you long to figure out the streets are in deplorable condition EVERYWHERE and that's going to eventually cost YOU money in vehicle repairs. As far as street "repair", the Mechanic Street underpass, for example, is 'patched' every couple of months or so - if the job were done *right* , maybe most of the frequent-repairs-that-don't-last-but-about-a-week-could be eliminated ? It's not the fault of the street department guys (all two of them) they don't have the right equipment to do the job to begin with. The public at large does not have a clue as to just how much the city (and I would assume the county) workers have cut to the bone concerning making do or doing without. The city's operated on a shoestring for years and years thanks to a previous CM and other commissioners. I don't want, and really cannot afford, anymore mil increases. On the other hand, rbow wants to "cut cut cut" but there's little to cut unless you cut some pay at the top. Hmmmmm....there's an interesting concept. The city guys cut taxes on tobacco and subsequently alcohol with "that recent law" and are planning to boost water rates to compensate. Hey, you cut somewhere, you mustcompensate somewhere else. Do you realize your fire insurance is based on the age of the fire trucks, the number of firefighters available at any given time, the pumping capacity of the truck(s), how far thje fire station is from your building, how far the hydrant is from your building, even the flow capaqcity of the hydrant itself. Fire deparment cuts and.....that's right, your fire insurance will increase. Same general idea with the police department. Maybe next July we could generate a little money by allowing snakes, sparklers, firecrackers, fountains (anything but airbursts) to be sold, and discharged, within the city limits (tax money for the taking) just for a day or two, say, between 9 a.m. and 9 p.m. Air bursts or after hours fireworks would result in a significant fine. Might generate a little money. I'd be willing to *suffer* a little noise for a day or two for that. Money for the taking but that's almost a year from now. This might be a ghost town by then.
July 17, 2009 at 10:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
spectator;
The only pay cut I ever mentioned was the City managers.
I also stated that the city/county needs to fund the basic services:
Fire
Ambulance
Water
Streets
sewer& trash
My cut cut cut comments were directed at all those small pet projects that we have funded during the good times.
You know those programs that make Emporia a nice town to live in but are not really the basics?
July 17, 2009 at 11:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
I forgot police in the basics.
July 17, 2009 at 11:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
The William Allen White house just asked the county for $10,000.00. Do you think that should be funded by tax dollars?
Emporian's for Drug Awarness are funded by the city and USD253. Do you think they have provided cost effective results for the tax dollars given them?
Cut them from the budget and let them go the private donation route. If they are good causes people will donate.
There are just two ideas for balancing the budget without a increase in taxes.
July 17, 2009 at 3:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Instead of jumping on someones suggestions on cuts, provide a reason why or why not they are good for the taxpayer? Isn't there some "program" that is funded by your tax dollars that just pi--es you off and you would like to see cut? There are so many to choose from.
July 17, 2009 at 4:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
giggles (anonymous) says...
rbow is right on, pet projects should not be part of a governments' job. All the niceties, that make this town more attractive but are non-essential, should be cut to the bone. If the private sector wants to complain that's fine, but they should really be setting out to raise money for them instead.
July 17, 2009 at 5:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Paccifier (anonymous) says...
EDA Has Never shown that they are doing any good. And I mean EDA, not just a bunch of figures that they throw around from the national level. Has EDA ever done a true independant, local survey to prove they do a good job? Or do we just take their word for it and keep throwing money at an unproven program?
July 17, 2009 at 10:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Right on, Steve! Pet projects like EDA and William Allen White House are exactly the sort of things that need to stand down for now. Let them rely on private donations or apply for grants as they should do to begin with.
Another area to begin cutting is in supplies like computers, and paper, and those sorts of things. For now at least, workers should be economizing to the nth degree.
And the courthouse does not need any more refurbishing! Make do.
July 17, 2009 at 10:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Folks, I went over the City of Emporia budget again today and found approx. $3.4 million in what I deem as unnecessary purchases I believe the City can do with out for the time being until things get better if they do get better.
It is amazing to me how our elected officials expect us as citizens to cut back and do with less or without, and yet they seem to think that does not apply to them.
Another thing I noticed on the Citys budget is an item called Personnel Services, listed under Expenditures in the amount of $11,838,640. Now I am assuming this figure is for wages, I don' t know for sure.
This figure is almost as much as the total receipts for the The City of Emporia.
If that is the case, then every man woman and child in Emporia will have to pay $444.23 per year just to cover wages.
July 17, 2009 at 11:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
One_Voice (anonymous) says...
I have heard a few god ideas on how to save some money (WAW & EDA) but for the most part it seems people just want to bitch and complain. If you have any suggestions on where to make cuts, show up at the public meetings, voice opinions, say EXACTLY where cuts could be made. If I use one posters figures, I'm spending about $1.22 a day to have employees ready to supply my water,pick up trash,keep my streets driveable,have police and fire ready for my protection,etc., This to me seems like I get a pretty good deal for the money. I dont think I could hire an employee to do all those things for that amount of money.
I'm sure there is ways to save the tax payers money, the job for the commission is to find them, thats part of what they were hired to do. So I'll say it again, get off your backside, go to a meeting, write and email or make a phone call with suggestions and be specific .
July 18, 2009 at 6:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
One_Voice;
I agree everyone should go to the meeting and voice their concerns.
I would have to disagree with your $1.22 @ day figure on employees. You need to count you and your neighbors children in the equation, as the kids arn't paying their $1.22 per day.
But as they are being saddled with so much debt by our elected officials they will have their own problems to deal with when they are old enough to pay taxes.
And you have people who don't own property living here, so I think your figure could use a little adjusting.
July 18, 2009 at 8:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
First place they will threaten to make cuts to department budgets will be fire and police. They do it everytime to get everyone's attention and to get the sheeple's help to help promote allowing tax increases. Administrations rarely see cuts in their operations, layoffs of their support staff, nor reductions in wages. They often see increases in wages, order in new furniture or remodel, hire additional office staff due to the increased work from laying offs of hourlys etc. The schools are where over 60% of all taxes go, that's where I'd start looking for waste.
My previous entry got removed, but I'll say it again, we told you they were lying about property tax reductions because of the new sales tax. Is that PC enough Gwen and company?
July 18, 2009 at 8:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
rbow
You are absolutely right about the children and non property owners not having to pay the $1.22 per day or the $444.23 per year for City wages. And One_Voice here is a figure to consider to adjust the figure of $444.23 per year.
Emporia, Kansas
As of the census[1] of 2000, there were 26,760 people, 10,253 households, and 6,039 families residing in the city.
These figures mean that of the 26, 760 people living in Emporia, you can assume that only 10,253 are property owners. Which means that those 10, 253 households that are property owners and taxpayers are the ones that pay the majority of the bills along with the business owners who are among those 10,253 households.
And when you consider these figures, that makes the amount that each taxpaying household and business owner has to pay for City employee wages increase by quite a bit.
As a mater of fact this would make each and every one of the 10,253 households pay approx. $1,153.65 per year for just City of Emporia Personnel Services ( City employee wages ? ).
July 18, 2009 at 9:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Part 2
And if you consider that the City of Emporias current initial budget draft, shows total expenditures of $22, 132,771 the $11,838,640 expenditure for Personnel Services, seems a bit extravigant, as it is more than half of the total expenditures.
I attended the July 14, 2009 budget hearing along with rbow, I did not make any budget cut suggestions at that time, as I wanted to see what cuts the Commissioners could come up with on their own. I am going to attend the public budget meeting on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 at Timmerman elementary school to see what and where the Commissioners have made cuts and then make my own suggestions. Of couse I know I am talking about City budget, not County budget. But I have not been able to obtain a Copy of the Countys budget proposal. Therefore can not see nor recommend any cuts. However, take a close look at things like Personnel Services expenditures, phone service upgrades, office equipment purchases, plumbing fixture purchases, what may be unnecessary vehicle purchases, etc..
The City and County Commissioners say they are co-operating and working together on their respective budgets and want to hold the line on increasing the tax mil levy. But it would seem to me that what they say and what they will do are two entirely different things. A 15.5 mil levy increase would mean that your taxes will increase by $15.50 per $1,000 of property valuation.
One mill is one dollar per $1,000 dollars of assessed value.
I just don't see how very many of you/us could afford a $15.50 tax increase on every $1,000 of property valuation. Even if you property evaluation was as little as $10,000 dollars, that means your taxes would increase by $155, $5,000 = $77.50 increase in taxes, and so on and so on.
In my opinion, a 1mil increase in taxes is going to cause problems for a lot of you/us. After all we are all paying $.01 more in sales tax, that was newly enacted.
Emporia and Lyon County already has one of the highest tax burdens for its size in the State !
If this tax and spend insanity does not stop the County, City, towns, etc. will be taxed out of existence.
Until these uncertain times improve and get better, we are all going to have to learn to conserve, make hard decisions and cuts in spending, etc., and I mean all of us, the City, County, State, Federal, all of us are in the same boat and the sooner we realize this the sooner we will see some improvement.
So Commissioners, City and County, make those hard dicisions to cut the waste and fat out of your budgets, don' t expect the citizens to do something you won' t.
Citizens of Emporia and Lyon County, go to the budget hearings and make you voices heard, make budget cut suggestions and either help or force the Commissioners to do the right thing for everyone.
Remember, if you don' t take an active part in your governing bodys process, you have no right or reason to complain about the process.
July 18, 2009 at 9:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
P.S. One_Voice, I forgot to give you one calculation.
If the City budget is not cut at all and the $22,132,771 total expenditure figure stands. Each 10,253 households will end up paying $2158.66 per year, thats $179.88 per month or $5.99 per day. Doesn't sound like such a good deal now, does it ! And that does' t even include a possible tax mil levy increase. That I believe is inevitable, both City and County.
July 18, 2009 at 10:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
toto5 (anonymous) says...
The 1st draft of the County budget is online at:
http://www.lyoncounty.org
then click on the "2010 Budget - Dept Requests-1st Draft"
July 19, 2009 at 1:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
toto5
Thank you for the web site address for the County Budget.
I will print a copy and go thru it.
Thanks again.
July 19, 2009 at 2:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )