Posted by Free4all (anonymous) on January 31, 2009 at 4:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

That would be great. I had an arguement with my friends about this awhile back. If they would just give it a try they would see how simple it really is. One bad thing is I would have to sell all my wrenches.

Posted by seriouslyfolks (anonymous) on January 31, 2009 at 5:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I would be out of a job and so would everyone at my workplace because it would cost so much to convert the company would go under. Not all of us work for the state. So I fail to see how this would benefit me our the people I work with. That would be about two 250 jobless just at one company. The government can't handle all of us being on welfare. I'm not against the metric system, I lived in Germany for almost three years and had no problems, but "converting" and being "saved" by it in six months I don't know.

Posted by b3bill (anonymous) on January 31, 2009 at 10:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It would be great to see some specific examples given of the types of jobs that would be created here in such huge numbers just by switching to the metric system.

With the loss of so many jobs in the US the past 15 to 20 years, I don't recall hearing one claim that any of it was due to not using the metric system. Cars and other machinery made in the US already utilize metric fasteners and other metric parts, to various degrees, depending on the specific item.

Companies located outside the US, implying they are using the metric system, are also experiencing slowdown with the current global recession. Japan had severe economic problems several years ago, and they've used the metric system for decades.

Mr. Hartman writes "This would also put our kids and grandkids at a par with other kids in science, engineering, math and physics." I totally disagree. The theorems, laws, definitions, etc. of these disciplines stand completely on their own without regard to, or the use of, any particular measurement system. I have taken extensive numbers of classes in all of these disciplines myself for my degree.

The metric system is very simple once you're used to it. However, the economic blow of switching to it would be tremendous for many businesses. These are costs that other countries would not be encountering, so foreign competition to some businesses would be even greater. I doubt many businesses could survive the additional financial hit at this time that the switch would cause.

Posted by open_eyes (anonymous) on January 31, 2009 at 10:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You've also got to remember, anything computer-technology related that would have to be switched to the metric system would ALL be outsourced, so how is that going to help the US job situation?

IBM recently announced record profits for last year (again), and ALSO announced they are "accelerating" their "repositioning" of employees in 2009, meaning they are speeding up the rate this year at which they try to replace all their US employees with cheaper, overseas workers. Why? They made record profits last year........ Greed, it's never enough. Plus they are probably afraid Obama might pass some legislation that puts a crimp in their outsourcing plans, so they're trying to get rid of as many in the US as fast as they can. As if we didn't have enough unemployment problems in this country already, not only are the companies that NEED to cut costs laying off, but the companies that DON'T need to - well, greed is something that just keeps growing and growing - they can never have enough..... :(

Posted by open_eyes (anonymous) on February 1, 2009 at 9:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Here's another one that really irks me in the same vein as above: Banks receiving bailout money sought foreign workers -

http://apnews1.iwon.com//article/2009020...

Well, both of the above stories must have been like Tyson, they were all only filling jobs we lazy Americans "wouldn't do"........ do ya think?

Posted by goodoleboy (anonymous) on February 1, 2009 at 10:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"You've also got to remember, anything computer-technology related that would have to be switched to the metric system would ALL be outsourced, so how is that going to help the US job situation?"

This is just not true, there are a great many firms that it is not cost effective to outsource, it works for some but not all. I work in IT, and I can tell you that all the outsourcing that has gone on in the last 10-20 years is returning data now that suggests outsourcing long term is not a lucritive as once thought. But i am with %100 the whole thing sickens me, I want to see companies doing this taxed heavily for sending jobs overseas, they try incorporate elsewhere then we impose tariffs, the bottom line is that we need to capture more money here in US, we are the cinsumer, we make the rules right?

Posted by open_eyes (anonymous) on February 1, 2009 at 12:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I was being sarcastic, goodoleboy, don't be so trigger-happy to jump at every last thing I say. I work in IT too, believe me I've got as first-hand a knowledge of the actual facts & results of outsourcing as anyone. Unfortunately, I've been involved in it as intimately as is humanly possible. But, regardless of how poor it has performed, most of that knowledge NEVER is allowed to reach the top. All they are allowed to see is reduced costs, so it was a success. I've seen numbers fudged, lies told, hours worked invented, lies covered up, you name it - all to keep outsourcing looking much better than it was/is in actual truth. I have stories of what has really gone on that would make your jaw drop - but, it all gets covered up, & a rosy presentation is all that ever makes it to the ones that make the decisions. Another example of corporate greed run amok, and I absolutely hope Obama is able to do something about it.

Posted by goodoleboy (anonymous) on February 1, 2009 at 2:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I completely empathize with you on all that that the upper management types see is the immediate return. I would love to trade stories with you, I'm sure it would be a great laugh. I don't think any President will be able to do anything about it. Its gonna take people getting into up in arms revolt to get anything done on it, and if we continue on our current pace, that day may come in our lifetimes.

Posted by open_eyes (anonymous) on February 1, 2009 at 3:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Oh, I have some doozies, but the more of them I experience, the less funny they become, sadly. I agree I don't think a President can really do that much about it, although they/Congress can certainly try some measures, tax breaks/incentives, etc. I have felt for quite some time and stated that many things in this country are going to take people getting up in arms and revolting. I'm not sure when or if it will ever happen, though. People in this country still trample each other to death to run across the street to buy something if it is being advertised as 2 cents cheaper, regardless if it was at the cost of their own job. Greed and short-sightedness doesn't exist only at the top corporate levels, it's just most visible there... :(

Posted by admireed (anonymous) on February 1, 2009 at 3:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Help the economy by "the folks" keeping more of their money rather than having govt decide where to spend it. Self directed ear marks!

Posted by methusla (anonymous) on February 1, 2009 at 4:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The idea of switching to the metric system is an old, old argument that has been going on for years.
I believe that the only thing that is going to help this Nation to solve its current problems is to absolutely get rid of the one thing that is causing the problems and some of you have touched on it and it can be summed up in one word " GREED " .

Posted by seriouslyfolks (anonymous) on February 1, 2009 at 5:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Its gonna take people getting into up in arms revolt to get anything done on it, and if we continue on our current pace, that day may come in our lifetimes."

"I have felt for quite some time and stated that many things in this country are going to take people getting up in arms and revolting."

"I believe that the only thing that is going to help this Nation to solve its current problems is to absolutely get rid of the one thing that is causing the problems and some of you have touched on it and it can be summed up in one word " GREED " ."

This sounds like a Che Guevara style Marxist revolution in the making. LOL Can't say that I haven't thought the same things myself. I was reading up on Karl Marx, because I read that the new Pres liked to study him in college, and Marx's ideas are almost prophetic. The greed that comes with capitalism is indeed destroying itself. open_eyes is correct that it is at all levels but most visible at the upper levels. It's funny how we can wag our self righteous pudgy fingers at these rich fat cats when we are just as greedy in our own lives. We love to hate the rich but do all we can to be like them and live like them going deep into debt to emulate the people we claim to despise. We are silly creatures.

Posted by admireed (anonymous) on February 1, 2009 at 7:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Greed comes from public sector as well. Look at govt. edu. can eat all the $$$ available and whine for more. Poor underpaid over worked. The cry has worked for years. Question it...you hate children.

Posted by seriouslyfolks (anonymous) on February 1, 2009 at 8:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Too true, admireed.

Posted by open_eyes (anonymous) on February 1, 2009 at 9:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

We need another good old-fashioned tea party - LOL

Posted by eric (anonymous) on February 1, 2009 at 10:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Re-post b3bill (anonymous) on January 31, 2009 at 10:04 p.m.

Maybe you should look at that problem the other way around? Of course switching to the metric system does not solve America’s problems, but had it done so 20 years ago, or much earlier, it would at least compete on a level playing field. Who says that all those jobs would have gone had America used metric measures to produce not only for the home market, but for exports as well? It does not help to produce cars to the metric standard if you keep on producing petrol guzzling dinosaurs.
What I am basically saying is, yes all countries around the world have economic problems now, but those, as you know, have nothing to do with measurements, but America's slack financial laws. Aside that, metric countries will recover and export again, while America will still be stuck with goods produced in obsolete measurement units that nobody wants.
America’s problem is that it cannot function properly without the metric system! No country wastes children’s precious time on teaching two measurement languages in a world that speaks practically only one. Estimates of using obsolete units in America range from billions to over a trillion of wasted dollars annually. The often-used excuse it is too expensive to switch to metric does not hold water because only 3 countries on this globe seem unable to afford it. The self confessed richest nation on earth America and impoverished Liberia and Burma..

Posted by seriouslyfolks (anonymous) on February 1, 2009 at 10:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The wealth of the nation has nothing to do with the costs of "conversion" for private companies. When we have to comply to new OSHA regs they don't pay for the costs, the company does. To say that just because the nation is wealthy(which makes me laugh because trillions of dollars of debt isn't wealth) doesn't mean the private companies could be able to handle this. It should however be done eventually but there is a long list of things that should be done eventually.

Posted by open_eyes (anonymous) on February 2, 2009 at 12:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"No country wastes children’s precious time on teaching two measurement languages in a world that speaks practically only one"

I'm just curious.... how much does anyone think we spend teaching multiple languages? How many other countries could save zillions of $$ if they quit teaching whatever language(s) they have there, and switched exclusively to the language of the worlds largest economy, English? How much extra is spent printing labels, etc.. in multiple languages? Could we save money & our children's precious time just teaching or making standard one language, in a country that speaks practically only one?

What would we do with county roads? Since they are all 1 mile, and all the measurements are in acres, will we move all the roads? What will we do with existing football fields & records? I'm kinda comfortable with 10 yards for a first down, 9.144 meters I think will confuse the play-by-play booth.... LOL

How much does it really matter?

Just some idle musings....

Posted by eric (anonymous) on February 2, 2009 at 5:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Re-post by seriouslyfolks (anonymous) on February 1, 2009 at 10:34 p.m.
Are you telling me that America is the only first world country on the planet that cannot afford to go metric?
All companies in metric countries had to convert at one time and managed it. If you keep waiting for the right time, you wait forever and a day. Metrication properly executed, (usually within 10 + years), governments do give tax concessions and suggest that existing machine tools should only be replaced at the end of their life cycle. That should not worry you unduly with most production companies having gone off shore.
If America handles everything like metrication it is no wonder that important projects like infrastructures, education and so on are so neglected.
As to your xtrilliion debt, I did say "self confessed richest nation".

Posted by Happiness09 (anonymous) on February 2, 2009 at 9:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I am in my 50's and the thought of going metric scares me to death. I fail to understand how throwing this country into choas could be financially beneficial. We're already going under. Let's do ourselves in by total confusion? I don't think it would be a bad idea though to start teaching the metric system in our schools. It seems to me that converting to the metric system would be a process that would take years.

Posted by seriouslyfolks (anonymous) on February 2, 2009 at 10:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

eric
I agree that it nedds to be done and should have been done already. The article said get it done in six months, yoyr ten year estimate is more realistic. What is the life cycle of a machine? That makes me laugh. I am a maintenance man and can tell you first hand that we try to keep machines going well into there third life time so the folks in the office can get their bonuses. All this "conversion" looks good on paper or a computer screen but out on the factory floors it looks completely different.

open_eyes
Imagine how many jobs the government would have to create if they moved all the county roads. Maybe this whole thing can save us. Oh wait the government has no money to pay for those jobs. Well it was a good idea though.;)

Posted by open_eyes (anonymous) on February 2, 2009 at 12:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Well..... we already do teach the metric system in our schools....at least back when I went to school - don't they still?????

seriouslyfolks, that would be a great idea. Move all the roads, change all the tax infomation on acreage, etc.... gosh, just think of how many illegals & imported workers we could add to this country, (because I'm sure no Americans would want to do those jobs). LOL

Actually, from what I'm hearing, not that much of the so-called "stimulus" package is actually going towards building infrastructure (comparatively, that is). It seems like it is more of a case where they got every single congressperson's pet pork project for the last 2 years, and threw them all together in 1 bill, and slapped the label "stimulus package" on it, (where BEFORE the election, it would have been another example of wasteful pork-barrel spending, most likely the GOP's fault).

One thing about it though - once you grow government, it is very, very difficult to cut it back. Once we get enough of the population used to the handouts, it is very, very hard to wean them back off.

Posted by oh4theluvof (anonymous) on February 2, 2009 at 2:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I believe they do still teach both--my second-grader is familiar with the metric system and I'm sure not he one who taught him. I'm good to get the standard system straight. The metric would have been easier for me if I'd learned only it, but I learned standard first and after that I was done.
As for the land re-allocation, that could be very profitable for the government. Since metric is smaller than standard, keep the same tax rate per kilometer as the current per mile and so on for the first year and then make increases comparable to current increase rates. We'd all be paying more in no time!!

Posted by wirewatt (anonymous) on February 2, 2009 at 3:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The engineering world uses the metric system and has for years. The electric business is metric. I just see a huge cost for the private businesses and we the consumer would have to pay for it. That is the reason that it hasn't happened yet. If you take a good look it is slowly being done a little at a time. To put everything to the metric system to create jobs won't happen.

Posted by neighbor (anonymous) on February 2, 2009 at 3:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

One of my daughters came home recently from high school telling me how much better it'd be if we went to the metric system in America because of it's ease of use. She started to tell me how metric is based on 10, I stopped her mid sentence and finished the speech her teacher had taught the class that day to take home and try to convince their parents that it should be done. I told her my science teacher used the same propoganda and excuses to suggest we switch to the metric system back when I was in Jr. High school 30 + yrs ago. I asked her to think about who would pay for all the conversions at factories, retooling equipment, restocking of fasteners alone, how different tools would have to be bought to work on everything made, etc.

Mark me down as one who couldn't care less how they do it elsewhere.

Posted by seriouslyfolks (anonymous) on February 2, 2009 at 5:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Here you go again crack, calling people mindless because they don't think all change is good. I say that people who want to change everything and haven't thought it out completely are the mindless ones. I know everybody is foaming at the mouth to "change" everything now because some guy recently made a couple of big speaches with that word in it but can we not think about all aspects of something before just changing it? Maybe consider what it would take to do it and the disaster it would be to do it now. These aren't the best of times in case you haven't noticed. Maybe you haven't noticed because you've been cowering in fear locked in your house so the shs boogey man doesn't get you.

Posted by create (anonymous) on February 2, 2009 at 5:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Some really good comments today, especially the musings of open_eyes with regard to roads, acres, and football fields. So true. Besides, I would have to restamp all my basil packages. Spring is coming and it's time to start up the basil crop again.

No metrics for me, thank you; I'll stick to American standards.

Posted by open_eyes (anonymous) on February 2, 2009 at 6:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Thx, create. Sorry for the extra work it is going to take you to re-measure your basil garden :)

But nobody touched on my mention of languages - why do we push for one measurement standard, and complain about the costs of dual, but on the other hand we push for multiple languages, even though it adds costs? Now, I realize it's not quite the same thing, but then again.... if ya want to do business, talk the business language (at least here). I don't see all the computer coding we're sending out of the country being translated into whatever language and then back to English. We are the worlds largest economy, so, wouldn't the rest of the world save alot of money for both themselves and us switching everything over to English??? Why do we push so hard and spend so much money here trying to accomodate all the other languages, when it would save businesses time, money & effort to just use one standard language? (I can already hear the hornets starting to buzz.... :)

BUT - maybe if we lower the basketball rim from 10 feet to 2 meters, I can finally dunk - LOL

Posted by neighbor (anonymous) on February 2, 2009 at 6:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Stubbornness is not generally a good quality to have...

Stubborn works just fine for me, works much better than being stupid and easily influenced. The herd is calling and they might actually value your opinion.

Posted by eric (anonymous) on February 2, 2009 at 6:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Come on Happiness09, you don’t seem to be all that happy? What are you frightened off, progress? You sure are a pessimist and that does your bloodpressure no good :-))
Five countries have switched to metric in the last 40 years. Three have done an excellent job, New Zealand, S.Africa and Australia completed the transition within 10-15 years. All use a few remnants of imperial units colloquially, but everything you hear and see is metric.
The remaining countries, Canada and Britain made a monumental mess of it. Both are in a measurement limbo and not sure whether they are imperial Martha, or metric Arthur. The benefits of metrication can only be reaped if it is quick and comprehensive, everything else leads to more costs, wasted time and confusion. Both countries would have been better off to stay with imperial only, but they can’t if they want to survive in a metric world

Posted by eric (anonymous) on February 2, 2009 at 7:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sums that mindset nicely up

crackinsack re -neighbor,
Yeah, we've been smoking cigs, exposing folks to SHS and not using the metric system for years! Why change now? …Even if it is for the better...
Stubbornness is not generally a good quality to have... Before dismissing your daughter’s ideas, you might listen next time. Some ideas are worthwhile even if it’s not the same-ol’ same-ol’.
I can hear it at neighbor's house now..."No, daughter. They've been saying SHS is dangerous for years, but I couldn’t care less. Let’s not change anything, ok?"

Posted by open_eyes (anonymous) on February 2, 2009 at 9:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm confused - is that what the US has been doing economically for the last 100 years, merely "surviving" in a metric world? Gee, our economy really DOES suck.... LOL

Posted by eric (anonymous) on February 2, 2009 at 9:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

If these machines are used to manufacture pots and pans its fine, but don't use them to produce precision equipment.

Posted by seriouslyfolks (anonymous) on February 2, 2009 at 10:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)
What is the life cycle of a machine? That makes me laugh. I am a maintenance man and can tell you first hand that we try to keep machines going well into there third life time so the folks in the office can get their bonuses. All this "conversion" looks good on paper or a computer screen but out on the factory floors it looks completely different.

Posted by seriouslyfolks (anonymous) on February 2, 2009 at 9:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

eric
No we don't "produce precision equipment" but we do produce products that people buy and use. The company provides my income which I use to purchase things I've come acustome to like food and shelter and the like, so yeah I'd rather be cautious about "converting" at such volatile times as we are in now. I know I'm awfull selfish wanting luxuries like food and shelter for my family. What was I thinking.

Posted by oh4theluvof (anonymous) on February 2, 2009 at 9:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Just curious how this would look at say, Dolly Madison? I don't know how exactly it all works now, but I would assume there is some measuring going on in standard units when mixing ingredients. Would that stay the same and just the packaging would be printed differently? Or would it all need to be switched? What would it look like as they have to replace equipment one piece at a time and some of the bakery is standard and some is metric? Would this even be an issue?
I think the big point here is that each type of industry (small picture) would have to be examined carefully to determine the practicality of such a switch and a change made only if the benefits will FOR SURE outweigh the total nationwide inconvenience (big picture). In my humble opinion, our country is making rash decisions hand-over-fist based on speculation(hypothesis) rather than proven rationale leading to the decision as the next logical step (theory).

Posted by eric (anonymous) on February 2, 2009 at 11:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yes, it has to be implemented industry by industry with their special needs and timelines in conjunction with experts and the help of government. Why all this fuss, you do not have to re-invent the wheel, plenty of countries have done it in an orderly fashion and did not go broke. On the contrary, they all benefitted. Or do you think Americans are a different species?

Re-oh4theluvof.
Just curious how this would look at say, Dolly Madison? I don't know how exactly it all works now, but I would assume there is some measuring going on in standard units when mixing ingredients. Would that stay the same and just the packaging would be printed differently? Or would it all need to be switched? What would it look like as they have to replace equipment one piece at a time and some of the bakery is standard and some is metric? Would this even be an issue?
I think the big point here is that each type of industry (small picture) would have to be examined carefully to determine the practicality of such a switch and a change made only if the benefits will FOR SURE outweigh the total nationwide inconvenience (big picture). In my humble opinion, our country is making rash decisions hand-over-fist based on speculation(hypothesis) rather than proven rationale leading to the decision as the next logical step (theory).

Posted by open_eyes (anonymous) on February 3, 2009 at 12:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Gosh, all those years that Didde's prospered and sold printing presses internationally, using non-metric measurements/tools/specifications. And here I thought all that time a printing press was a precision machine, now I find out it was all just pots and pans.

Posted by oh4theluvof (anonymous) on February 3, 2009 at 12:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)

eric:
Please forgive me for offending you so badly by asking cautious questions. However, if I may quote you, "....in conjunction with experts and the help of government."
This is exactly my concern. Experts cost a lot of money that corporations cannot currently afford and on top of that, any government assistance at this point would be fabricated money--financing with no backing. So, I'm saying, the pay-off needs to be much more than survival--it needs to pay for itself and then some.
I simply want to know, will it do this, and how? Where are the numbers?

Posted by create (anonymous) on February 3, 2009 at 8:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

LOL open_eyes re: your pots and pans comment. My first real giggle of the day.

I bought a quilt pattern book online recently without realizing it was from England. Yup, you guessed it -- metric only. All my rather expensive quilting rulers are standard. Crappitydoodahday.

Posted by Observation (anonymous) on February 3, 2009 at 12:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It doesn't really matter how we measure what we eat as long as it ends up being a belly full.

Posted by eric (anonymous) on February 3, 2009 at 5:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Let's wind it up, there are none as blind as those that do not want to see. Cheers

Posted by seriouslyfolks (anonymous) on February 3, 2009 at 7:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

There is some good old liberal elitist thinking right there.
eric posted
"Let's wind it up, there are none as blind as those that do not want to see. Cheers"

Everyone is blind who doesn't see things exaclty his way, yet he refuses to listen to anyone elses point of view. I have heard that the recent Democratic wins at state and federal levels are an indicater that this country is moving from being center-right to center-left. If this is the attitude that we are moving towards I don't want any part of it. I know I am just a low life grease monkey but I have learned that when there is a problem with something you have to consider all posible solutions and you can't just discount ideas just because they aren't exactly your way. As I've stated in my posts I am not opposed to the metric system but now is not the time. We are in a sinking ship and do not need to cause any more waves right now.

Posted by oh4theluvof (anonymous) on February 3, 2009 at 8:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Okay, well I, for one, wanted to get some kind of reassurance that the benefits outweigh the risks of this endeavor. I believe I asked open questions, weighted only by my concerns and not with prejudice or obstinacy. Since I have received no valid counters to to the questions I asked--only accusations of being (paraphrased) "fussy" and "blinded by my own unwillingness"--I guess I will proceed with an opposed position until circumstances change enough to reduce the riskiness or I receive more reassuring answers.

Posted by seriouslyfolks (anonymous) on February 3, 2009 at 8:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

oh4
Here is your problem, "I asked open questions". You can't question the elite. They are above you and me. we don't deserve answers to legitimate questions. Everything has already been thought out for us because we are lowly and they are of the highest esteem.

Posted by open_eyes (anonymous) on February 4, 2009 at 8:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

But now is not the right time goes completely against the elitest thinking. SPEND, SPEND, SPEND, that is the mantra right now. It's so close, they can smell it. Forget the fact that they screamed and ranted about deficit spending prior to the election. If they can just get this massive pork-barrel bill rammed down our throats, the fix is in - we will grow government and get the population dependent on it, which should ensure their power base possibly for good.

This video on forms of government is awesome - check it out.
Pretty much where we're headed, and what our founding fathers feared, and why.

http://www.wimp.com/thegovernment/

Posted by seriouslyfolks (anonymous) on February 4, 2009 at 9:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Great video open_eyes I hope everyone watches it.

Posted by create (anonymous) on February 4, 2009 at 9:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Wow, open_eyes, fantastic video. Am sharing it on e-mail.

Posted by Observation (anonymous) on February 4, 2009 at 3:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Open_eyes:
Thank You! Thank You! Thank You!

Posted by oh4theluvof (anonymous) on February 4, 2009 at 3:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

So what you're all saying is that I can't be one of the elite if I am to think of others as equal to myself? Or if I question those who think more highly of themselves than of others? What if I am one of those people that don't believe that history teaches us anything except what did or didn't work that time? And what if I believe in a relative truth? Wouldn't that mean that that video is only true if I want it to be?

(I really hope you all have read my for-real posts and get this one)

Posted by open_eyes (anonymous) on February 4, 2009 at 4:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

LOL 4theluv - & thx, others. Yes, I think that video put things pretty well.....