Don’t wait and see
Douglas B. McGaw Emporia
Saturday, January 24, 2009
IN HIS EDITORIAL of Jan. 21, Chris Walker correctly cautions against unwarranted optimism in the face of the problems we — and our new president — face. He concludes, interestingly, with this comment: “Our country is hoping for change. Will change happen? Will the politics be different? We all hope it will. Now we have to wait and see.”
Wait and see? Since when was democracy a spectator sport? Our national success does not depend just on President Obama and his administration. It depends on all of us. If we fail to participate, we will most surely fail. Not only do we need to “pick ourselves up and dust ourselves off,” but we need to volunteer, to help others, to make sacrifices for the good of the whole.
It helps that the new administration is making this a bit easier by opening up the Web site at http://www.whitehouse.gov/, where one can find out what is planned and proposed, and where one can also contact the administration to offer suggestions or find out how best to volunteer.
Never forget that we emerged from the Great Depression by dint of hard work and cooperation; we weathered the shortages and difficulties of WWII in a similar fashion. We may have had leaders to set the tone, but the work was done by the common, anonymous people.
Will change happen? Only if we make it happen.
spuds4all (anonymous) says...
Our government is a spectator sport. It is no longer for the people or by the people but for the gov by the gov. The electoral collage tell us who we voted for instead of our actual vote counting. A good example is the gay marriage (I'm not bashing just using as example ) the people voted it down all over the country and the minority will get the win. Another example is the bailout everyone I spoke with believe's if the money would have gone to the people we would have payed our way out of this mess just ask a plumber what trickles down. Be warned we are headed into a police country and a one world government.
January 24, 2009 at 2:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
spuds4all (anonymous) says...
I wont bash Obama and I didnt bash bush I stand behind my Presidents even though I may not agree with them. But we must remember he is only a figure head as he cannot make law or make absolute promises. As for hide and watch I have no choice as my vote no longer counts, If I had it my way I would abolish the current gov. and return to the original constitution but under the new homeland LAW that would be treason. Its like the right to bear arms will one day mean roll up your sleeves and go to work. For more info google Amero and hang on Its going to be a bumpy ride.
January 24, 2009 at 6:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bdprotheroe (anonymous) says...
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1603...
January 24, 2009 at 8:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
"When you vote for a presidential candidate you are really voting to instruct the electors from your state to cast their votes for the same candidate. For example, if you vote for the Republican candidate, you are really voting for an elector who will be "pledged" to vote for the Republican candidate. The candidate who wins the popular vote in a state wins all the pledged votes of the state's electors.
The Electoral College system was established in Article II of the Constitution (1787) and amended by the 12th Amendment in 1804."
-- http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/thepoli...
Your vote does count in the electoral college every bit as much as it always has since the inception of the US Contitution. The way to make your national vote more powerful, however, is to actively get informed and vote in city elections, then county and then state. Like electricity coming out of the power station at Hoover Dam, your vote is the most powerful when it is closest to its point of origin. It is not as powerful at the federal level, but it is still enough to "light a bulb." And the only way to take the government back to being "of the people, by the people and for the people" is to make use of every single vote you have access to. The reason too much control has gone to the governments is because citizens have gotten apathetic about voting at the starting point that has somehow become thought of as the "bottom" and become increasingly apathetic about every point of election up until President at which time they feel defeated and uncounted (a liberal/media hype that increased ten-fold when the liberal candidate didn't win in 2000). There are many politicians who have skated their ways along into federal Senate and House seats because of lack of voters all along their political paths--city commissioner to Senator.
January 24, 2009 at 9:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
WOW Mr. Pretheroe how sad that people need celebrities to tell people to serve one another. My parents, the Army and church have all taught me this long ago. I didn't have to wait for a president and a bunch of celebrities to teach me how to be human. How truely sad for those who just sat and complained for the last several years instead of actually doing anything. How very sad.
January 24, 2009 at 9:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Whoops sorry I spelled your name wrong Mr. Protheroe.
January 24, 2009 at 9:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
spuds4all (anonymous) says...
The way I understand the ORIGINAL constitution is that the electoral college is to collect count and deliver the votes of the people and that is all. Also they are not to associated with or paid by the government ie not employees. All the amendments that have been added have taken the power from the people and given it to the gov. I guess a good example of local loss of power will be to count the votes on the smoking issue. Like in Colorado (Boulder) it went from no smoking in public places (vote) to no smoking in multifamily housing sharing a common wall (no vote). Another example is emminent(?) domain. Both of these are minority rule mostly government agency making law with out public vote. That brings up another point do you know and understand all of your state and federal laws that took effect Jan 1 2009? Remember ignorance of the law is no excuse and will not hold up in a court of law.
January 24, 2009 at 10:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Bjnemp (anonymous) says...
"Government is not the solution fo our problem. Government is the problem." (Ronald Reagan, January 20, 1981)
January 24, 2009 at 10:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
spuds4all (anonymous) says...
Careful remember if 2 or more gather and talk about the government as the problem it can be called treason. So lock your doors , grab your guns and dont forget the beef jerky. Oh I forgot grab the woman and children to.
January 24, 2009 at 10:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
spuds:
I was hoping that my comments might serve as an encouragement to accomplish the results you seem to want and that I want as well. It is difficult to find info on the original electoral college because what I find says that the two amendments were for clarification of it as it already was intended. I'm not sure how trustworthy that statement is. I found a good article on how it works today and it seems to verify my earlier link.
I am not sure which laws you were referring to--I am aware of some, but I could not promise I'm aware of them all. Was there a particular one you were alluding to that I'm not understanding? If not, what was your point?
I am not disagreeing with you, especially about the direction we are currently headed. I was being warned about that in my elementary years as my parents were involved in the John Birch Society--a group that the liberals have given a bum rap--which has always been about warning of socialism, dictatorship, one-world government, etc.
January 24, 2009 at 10:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dalelinn (Dale Linn) says...
oh4theluvof,
I'm afraid it's too late to get involved in the government. I also think that there's not a lot the President can do either. The "Feds" have the bit in their mouth now. We are seeing the last of free market capitalism. Our country has been taken to it's knees. One of these days the "masters of the money" will lop off our head, so to speak. We might as well continue the idiotic fight between Republicans and Democrats. At least it will keep our minds off of our countries problems. I think it's a little too late for Doug's "hard work and co-operation". I just wish it weren't so. Spud's referral to the John Birch society is pretty close.
January 24, 2009 at 10:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
What I was most impressed with was President Obamas' commitment to regulating lobbying and lobbyists. I would like to have seen lobbying and lobbyists just out right banned completely, all over America. As far as I am concerned the whole mess that this Country is in is due to unfettered lobbying of law makers, on the Federal, State, County and Local levels.
January 24, 2009 at 11:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
My thoughts on the "electoral college" is a joke. And here is why I say this.
If the popular is counted anyway, why is there a need for a middle man to choose who wins by the popular vote anyway!
When you start having a middle man so to speak, you have more chances for corruption, etc, don't forget what the job of lobbyists is, and lobbying and lobbyists go beyond just lobbying lawmakers.
I say count the popular vote and let that decide who is elected President, after all the popular vote is the choice of the people anyway, and get rid of the possibly corruptable middle man, so to speak.
January 24, 2009 at 11:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
spuds4all (anonymous) says...
4theluv
My comment about the laws was meant to show how we the people are not informed by the law makers about what new laws they have put into action. If we dont go and research what has been put into law we will never know until we break the law. In one town I lived in there was a law on the books that said you could not walk down the shadey side of the street with a paper lunch sack (very old law) but in reality it's still a law and you could be charged but of course then they would have to give you a saddle and $5 gold piece when you got out of jail (also still a law). Ignorance cant be avoided however it to is against the law.
January 24, 2009 at 11:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
spuds4all (anonymous) says...
methusla
My hat is off to you I say run all middle men out of town tared, feathered and on a rail. I think they are called speculators also you know like the ones playing with oil prices. Or closer to home we call them job recruiters.
January 24, 2009 at 11:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
oxen,
I understand that it all seems overwhelming, but Doug was pointing out that our country has survived a full on depression before. I don't believe that the solution that is being experimented with right now is good or will work and I do believe that on present course we are headed for ultimate dictatorship. No bailout of anyone, anywhere has ever been the most successful solution. However, if we look back far enough, America--rather the American colonies--has had a bit of experience with tyranny too. While it wasn't internal, it was overcomeable (it's a word now--I just made it one). If worse comes to worst, I believe it could be overcome again at that extreme.
However, I am hoping that using the system to our advantage at ever available opportunity (while it still works that way) would begin a turn to the right direction. America worked until "progressive thinkers" (sabotaging minds) convinced universities full of impressionable minds that it was somehow broken and to not look at its successes but assume its failures. They also promoted Europe as the new standard to attain to--not looking at its failures, but assuming its successes. If we would look back a bit, we would see the future a bit more clearly.
January 24, 2009 at 11:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
spuds4all (anonymous) says...
4theluv
How do you explain the creative accounting that helped start this mess? When I was in school 100% = one pie so to have 200% you have to have 2 pies. In other words how can I get a loan for 175% of the value of my home when I only have 1 home assuming 1 home = 1 pie. And your right no bailout is the answer to the problem however if the gov. gave you 1mil dollars then took out taxes it would leave about 270k (this was worked out by a professor) then you paid all your bills off blew 25k on junk then put the rest in the bank you cant say that would have been worse than the way it was done.
January 25, 2009 at 12:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
spuds:
I get it--the system is broken. I don't think it is completely broken yet, but we aren't using solid methods to fix it. We are experimenting too much at too volatile a time. We should be using methods that follow tried and true principals learned over 6,000 years of documented human history rather than trying to come up with new methods that follow tried and failed principals over the same span of time. Sadly, a lot of people don't understand how to use history or to apply general principles to specific circumstances. Some of them vote and others take offices. I hope our President isn't one of those, but current evidence doesn't make it look promising.
As for the electoral college, I am not completely opposed to it as it is supposed to guarantee representation in very large scale voting. I am always hesitant to demote (IMO) representative, republican democracy to a straight majority rule. My reasoning can be summed up best by this quote from Wikipedia; Democracy: "The "majority rule" is often described as a characteristic feature of democracy, but without responsible government it is possible for the rights of a minority to be abused by the "tyranny of the majority".
It may not be working right, as many of the other elements of our government aren't, but I feel removing the electoral college and the representation it affords takes us one step closer to the wrong direction. I would not argue, however, that it couldn't use a few more watchful eyes on it. As with all government, it absolutely could.
January 25, 2009 at 12:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
I cannot even begin to explain that "creative accounting." I don't advocate it, I don't trust it and I believe we are going to have to make one strong, last-ditch effort to hold the Congressmen and Congresswomen accountable for doing it or for not reversing what they can of it. I agree that we taxpayers should get to use the money as many ways as possible as it filters through to the companies--or doesn't. We don't have a lot of time left to hold these officials responsible.
January 25, 2009 at 12:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
spuds4all (anonymous) says...
The electoral college must be completely sepperated from the gov. to maintain a unbiased count of all the peoples vote then deliver that count only. If they want to vote then they should go to the polls like the rest of us. Also I believe every thing the gov. does must go to vote that includes from the vice pres. to how much for tpaper and I know this would mean we would have to vote every day but it would also make the gov. slow down and look closer at what they do. I could go on and on but then they would make me put it in spanish to. Sorry for the spelling Im getting tired.
January 25, 2009 at 12:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
I would advise us all to become educated on the decline of governments--for example republican democracy to social democracy to socialism, etc.
There is a large push by the far left wing to focus everyone on the Republicans vs. the Democrats and most of us don't realize the danger that lurks in that focus.
"Multiparty democracy, a two-party system requires voters to align themselves in large blocs, sometimes so large that they cannot agree on any overarching principles."
How familiar does this sound? Where does it lead?
"Intra-Party Democracy, a democratic process within an one party state government. This debated among scholars if the Chinese Communist Party resemble this process during leadership transitions."
We each need to find a third party that represents us most closely as individuals and make the electoral college work for us instead of against us while pulling ourselves back from the edge of this scary slippery slope.
quotes from Wikipedia; List types of democracy
January 25, 2009 at 12:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
"most closely"??????? How about closest? I am feeling the hour too, so I will power down for the night.
January 25, 2009 at 12:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
spuds4all (anonymous) says...
4theluv
You have a good point Democracy has many down falls but I wonder why you didn't go back to the start of our great nation when it was just a republic. That was based on the words and morals of God. I'm not that old but I remember in the late 50s early 60s we as a nation started turning from Gods ways, in the late 60s early 70s we turned our back on God, then in the late 70s early 80s we took him out of our schools, in the late 80s early 90s we told God we would do things our way and God said OK. Just look around and you can see just what man has become every time he turns from God over the last 6000 years. Man is born sinful and this is easy to see just look at little children you never have to teach them how to be bad instead you have to teach them to do good. I guess my point is go back to the original wording of the constitution Put God back in charge of our lives, morals and back in school then love your neighbor as your self not because she's hot then don't lie,cheat or steal and watch things turn around. That is if it's not to late because if it is don't take the mark.
January 25, 2009 at 6:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
"I say to conservatives lets wait and see, and be the spectators for four years while we reorganize our efforts to re-take control of the government."
There's that word again -- control. In other words, let's not work together, let's take control. There are no easy answers, but one side having complete control is not one of them. We're experiencing the result of that right now.
I like what New York City's Mayor Bloomberg said this Sunday on CNN -- government is not all about who is wearing black hats or white hats. Most, he said, are wearing gray hats. Give and take. Compromise.
January 25, 2009 at 8:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
create:
With the smaller elections that we still have access to during these four years, it is not necessary to sit back and wait. Laying the foundation for the outcome of the next big election begins now--while it still works this way, let's use it. I am not looking for control, I'm looking for a form of government that ensures equality among its citizens--especially those that disagree with each other. The danger of sitting back and waiting is that by being completely uninvolved, we allow for the highest degree of further decline, rather than tempering it with better decisions on "lower" (I like to think of them as closer) levels.
spuds:
My goodness you were up early. I would assume you are off to church services already. Normally I would be too, but a cold virus has interfered with that plan this morning. The former government to which you referred is a beautiful ideal in my mind, but I believe it is unattainable at this point. You see, the culture of the Constitution writing days was made up of large numbers of God-fearing individuals and smaller numbers of people who at least respected the principles in His Word. In order to get back to something that looks like that, we would need an exodus of Christians (true believers) out of this land to begin a government all their own, OR a massive evangelical conversion of a large portion of our current population. That belief has to be established first, not second. We should not try to legislate morals--that's like a doctor spending all of his time treating the symptoms only, delaying and even getting distracted from offering the cure. For now, maintaining a status quo while trying to persuade our fellow citizens of the virtues of freedom is the better tactic--assuming we a placing a higher emphasis on their eternal state than on their political state. The Bible tells us clearly that the world corrupted by sin will degenerate, not regenerate. That is why we need His regeneration and to, in love, share primarily that with unbelievers.
January 25, 2009 at 9:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
spuds4all (anonymous) says...
In other words, let's not work together, let's take control?
I'd like to see that because the people have NOT worked together and have LOST control. And as for give and take thats what go's on now we give and the gov. takes. People laugh at this united we stand divided we fall but the gov takes it to heart if they can keep us divided we can't gain control. Just look at all the ways this is going on race, wealth, health, pretty people/ugly people, fat people, smokers, alcoholics, non compliant, gun owners and the list go's on all it takes is to poke fun at how a group does something and you have division well I say enough is enough take control from the gov and give it back to the people. OF THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE. There is a reason why they are called PUBLIC SERVANTS they serve us not the other way around. Gee it seems to me we already won one war over that but then again maybe that was over TEA.
January 25, 2009 at 9:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
spuds4all (anonymous) says...
4theluv
Good morning I hope you get better soon, as for church it was grand as always.
I agree point well made on all levels, and this is how things get hammered out. In the immortal words of JFK, don't ask what can my country do for me, but what can I do for my country. This can be taken in several ways one is if the gov. is by the people then that means it is my duty to try and direct the gov (through my vote) in the needs of the people then let the gov implement the things necessary to achieve those goals. For if I fail to lead the gov then I must follow. And I cant follow the gov and God at the same time so I will follow the Lord so I can lead.
January 25, 2009 at 10:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dalelinn (Dale Linn) says...
oh4theluvof
The people of the United States have persevered in the past. There are now more people living in the major population centers. I think they have even more of an entitlement mentaility than we have. (Even though I don't really like the electoral collage, I believe that if we didn't have it, the candidates would just cater to the population centers.) When things get bad enough, maybe enough people will wake up enough to get something done about our corrupt government and the money that controls them. The only thing we can do there is wait and see. The citizens did wake up when the big money boys tried to do completely away with our border (the last amnesty try).
January 25, 2009 at 11:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
I agree, oxen. I just hope that they quit "hitting the snooze button" on us "alarm clocks," otherwise they will have missed the whole event and it will be too late.
January 25, 2009 at 11:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
Chuck Baldwin--Constitution Party, thank you very much!
January 25, 2009 at 11:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
alfalfa (anonymous) says...
It is not too late to get involved in government, we do still live in a democracy. Alot of the problems in this country today are the result of the majority thinking all they have to do is vote to be a responsible member of society. Democracy is a team sport and it is hard work. Too many of us just want to sit around and gripe, because that is the easiest thing to do.
As far as the bit about Hollywood and their pledge? BIG DEAL. Now that they have a liberal in they are suddenly patriotic. I wonder what they would have pledged if McCain had gotten elected. They are entertainers, not statesmen.
January 25, 2009 at 11:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
spuds4all (anonymous) says...
Observation
I'm not sure what you mean about Ron Paul bloggers as I don't belong to any political group I voted for Obama and no won else because he seamed to be the one MAN that would serve the people and hopefully God as well, only time will tell. I stand with him not just because he is now our Commander and Chief but more importantly because the Lord says honor your leaders, not to mention God also says I put the Kings in place. You see it is not my place to follow someone just because they say they know what God wants but to use discernment when choosing the right person for a job then leave the rest in Gods hands and that also means I'm allowed to be wrong in my choices but that's OK because God is in control.
January 25, 2009 at 12:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )