Where is the outrage?
Chuck Torres, Olpe
Friday, February 13, 2009
WHEN I HEARD of the vandalism at the William Allen White Memorial in January, I was surprised by how little press it received in The Gazette. I checked the article that made mention of it at The Gazette Web site and was even more surprised to see so little comment from the community.
Where is the outrage over this? I, for one, am sick and tired of people desecrating our public facilities and sites. I am especially fed up with this spray-painting nonsense.
We need a strong campaign in all area schools, homes and churches denouncing the desecration of public facilities. Everyone needs to be taught to respect public property and it needs to start at a young age.
All of Emporia’s communities need to be involved — Hispanic, faith, public/private schools and parents need to play a role.
The offenders should be caught and put to work cleaning up the damage and fined. The parents need to be right beside them as well, if that is the case.
I just hope for my sake that I never witness this type of criminal activity occurring. I don’t know if I will be able to control my response.
Chuck Torres
Olpe
HenryVIII (anonymous) says...
I'd listen to him folks! "Chuck Torres" sounds suspiciously close to "Chuck Norris" and we all know what happens when Chuck gets angry...boot to the head!
‘enry
February 13, 2009 at 4:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Free Bird yells Chuck Norris at rock concerts.
February 13, 2009 at 9:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
chuck;
I AGREE with you,but there is not much that can be done about this problem when the first 3 posts replying to your concerns are what they were. Let's talk and maybe start a reward fund for people who turn in these vandals. People let's be positive about some of these problems and quit being such a--es.
Steve
February 13, 2009 at 9:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Please remember that the county turned down a request by community corrections for cleaning equipment that would put juvenile offenders to work cleaning up all the graffiti in town.
It's not just vandalism in general, Chuck and others; Emporia itself is always so dirty. Maybe if we cleaned it up people would be less inclined to mess it up.
From time to time, when I see other towns on TV news stories for example, they appear to be clean, even in the wintertime. Not us. Look around, look at the street gutters all over town, not just downtown, all over. They're full of trash, dried leaves, layers and layers of dirt and grit and gravel. All year long. Add to that the graffiti on buildings and we have a very dirty looking little town. It's disgusting and certainly does nothing for the pride factor. Why can't we keep this town clean?
February 14, 2009 at 6:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Hornet10 (anonymous) says...
Here are some of the photos I sent up the line in January.
http://flyoverpeople.net/v-web/bullet...
February 14, 2009 at 11:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Thank you, Hornet10. What a wake up call. So sad.
February 14, 2009 at 7:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
heloves (anonymous) says...
Could be we all need to learn more of the Golden Rule. Individualism does not make a clean community. A selfish heart quickly becomes evident. Too many homes, churches and schools seek to entertain and push a political agenda rather than encourage and if need be enforce the rights of society over that of the individual. He loves, but that love is not a call to selfishness but selflessness.
February 14, 2009 at 8:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...
create you are correct, the county turned down a request by community corrections for cleaning equipment
The reason is ,To save you tax dollars and it cost WAY TO MUCH, it is down right Ridicules and excessive to spend 10's of thousands of dollars to purchase a power washer and overpriced supplies for these kids to use to clean up graffiti, Get these Vandals to use a buckets of soap and water and some stiff bristle brushes. With a little effort the spray paint could be removed, They DO NOT NEED a 10,000 dollar power washer!
rbow, the city already has a reward fund, its called crime stoppers and one can remain anonymous
February 14, 2009 at 8:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justthefacts (anonymous) says...
crime stoppers is a volunteer group that is county based. It is not designed to deal with graffiti the same way the program the county turned down. I was disturbed at the county's unwillingness to assist since all of us who live here pay county taxes too. Since community corrections receives other state funded dollars to run county programs I found their actions disturbing.
February 14, 2009 at 9:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...
that does not change the fact that Thousands of dollars were to be used to purchase equipment that was not needed. I have seen how community corrections works, and simply put, a kid gets in trouble, he/she is required to put in hours of public service work, community corrections finds something for them to do, pick up trash, pull weeds,paint, mow,etc until thier hours are done with, I for one do not want to fork out Thousands of tax dollars to give these vandals state of the art equipment to use and Tear up, Which they will. Why? because they dont give a hoot, they didnt pay for it and they wont pay to fix it when it breaks, all they have to do is show up and do a half ass job at whatever and then they get to say they have put in thier hours of service. As for Crime stoppers, You are probably correct, "It is not designed to deal with graffiti" per say, but it can be used that way.
February 14, 2009 at 9:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
UsayULoveGod (anonymous) says...
Maybe the ones who get caught , make their fines high enough to set aside some of that money to buy th equipment .
February 15, 2009 at 12:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Hornet10 (anonymous) says...
It seems the larger issue here is a whole disaffected youth (presumably) sub-culture that has emerged in the last 10 years or so. This reaches beyond the assault on the memorial. This is a symptom of a larger concern.
What is ironic is the WAW believed in the City Beautiful Movement, that municipal amenities would correct social ills. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_Bea... This was part of the Whites' motives to give the city a beautiful, well designed and appointed park as a memorial to their daughter rather than the typical monument of stone. It was to be a utility memorial. Six years after WAW's death a stone monument was added to the park by the WAW Memorial Foundation.
February 15, 2009 at 10:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justthefacts (anonymous) says...
I'm sorry, I"m not an expert on removing paint from rough surfaces that cannot be painted over. Other than high pressure washers, how does one remove it. We could pay for it using a match with state funds that would have low risk juvenile offenders do the work or have the city pay the whole thing and pay city workers to do it..Hmmm seems pretty clear to me. Now that there will also be no funding for offenders period due to cuts, we can expect that police and other responsive agencies will be dealing even more so reactively and since most of the folks like to talk the game but not act, I seriously doubt there will be tons of volunteers to supervise and direct offenders. I believe I read in the paper the police department is recruiting volunteers to help remove the stuff so those of you opposed to those "expensive" purchases will surely devote some of your time to the clean up and monitoring of problem areas to stop the problem???
February 15, 2009 at 7:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...
justthefacts
Heres a few suggestions on removal of spray painted surfaces, the third one I have posted works Great as I have used it in the past on brick walls, Elephant Snot.
http://www.graffitiremover.com/
http://taginator.com/
http://graffitisolutions.com/
ELEPHANT SNOT
For Porous Surfaces
ELEPHANT SNOT® is the workhorse for the most difficult of porous surface removal requirements - ELEPHANT SNOT® penetrates deeply into concrete, cement, brick, grout, stone, virtually anything porous, to dissolve and loosen all types of tags. In many circumstances, a simple water hose pressure will do the job. Effective for use on spray painted graffiti, marker, pen, ink, crayon, shoe polish, lipstick, pencil and most other graffiti marks found on brick, mortar, masonry, cement, concrete, stucco, terrazzo, pavers and porous tile. Natural stone surfaces such as granite, marble, sandstone, rocks, both porous/rough or polished. Also effective on glass, ceramic, porcelain, glazed tiles and grout.
Again NO NEED for thousands of dollars of High Pressure equipment, Just a few punk vandals and some elbow grease
February 15, 2009 at 8:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justthefacts (anonymous) says...
The stuff is expensive and I understand not very good for the environment. The new water runoff ordinance enacted by the city at the demand of the feds will prohibit most cleaning solvents and cleaning with anything other than water or sand. All that still costs money. You can't do it for nothing. You can invest once for a cleaning unit or keep paying for chemicals that are bad for the environment. You pick. Regardless there has to be somebody to do it. The main focus of the grant was to pay for those who would supervise juvenile offenders to remove the stuff. Now, either volunteers will do it or you will pay for city/county officials to do it. If you always do what you always did, you always get what you always got...which in this case is a lot of graffiti and nothing / nobody to clean it up. Some people around here probably still have the first penny their grandpa gave them back in 1908, yeepers.
February 16, 2009 at 8:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...
Although many of the products I listed will (work better) with a power washer, they do not need to be used with a power washer, they are all environmentally friendly and BIODEGRADABLE, Nonflammable, non-combustible, have a Very low rate of evaporation. No ventilation required unless used in a confined space.
With that said, from the articles I remembered on this grant, it was for approx $18,000 which the county would have to match another $18,000 for a total of $36,000, If they had approved spending $18,000 to get $18,000 with the economy the way it is, everybody would have been complaining about it. I’m all for having these vandals clean up the Graffiti around town, I just think it could be done for less tan $36,000 dollars, heck let the county give me a third of that amount and I would rent a power washer and sit back to watch these kids clean up spray paint every weekend or 2 or 3 nights a week!
And in case you have not seen it, heres another article from the Gazette
“The Emporia Police Department has established a graffiti hotline for residents to report locations of graffiti in Emporia as part of an ongoing effort with the community prevent graffiti and other acts of vandalism.
“We receive excellent cooperation from local businesses and residents in their reporting acts of vandalism to their properties,” Said Gary Smith, Emporia Police Department police chief. “The establishment of the hotline will allow individuals to report incidents of vandalism anonymously as well.”
Brendy Allison, community service officer, is in charge of the graffiti abatement program and will field calls that come into the hotline. Allison also will coordinate community groups, who will work to remove graffiti throughout Emporia.
“We hope to also develop a community education component using our gang intelligence officers and community education officers to provide educational programs of the consequences of vandalism and the real dollar impact it takes on out community,” Smith added.
The graffiti hotline number is 341-4356. Individuals who want to report the names of individuals responsible for graffiti and other property crimes are encouraged to call Lyon County Crimestoppers at 342-CARE (2273)”.
February 16, 2009 at 10:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Reporting names and coordinating community groups to remove the grafitti sounds like a hampster wheel to me.
Not only was the $36 thousand to pay for supervisory personnel, but it included a trailer for the power washer too.
February 16, 2009 at 10:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Weltha (anonymous) says...
If anyone is interested in looking at what the chemicals/precautions for them are that life posted in an earlier post.
I attached links to the MSDS files on them.
MSDS (material safety data sheet) for Elephant snot. link
http://www.graffitisolutions.com/graf...
MSDS for wipe out
http://www.graffitiremover.com/pdf/Wi...
MSDS for tagaway
http://www.graffitiremover.com/pdf/Wi...
February 16, 2009 at 11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...
Ok , lets say the county decided to fund this grant, $18,000 grant and $18,000 matching funds, pressure washer and trailer approx $15,000, that leaves about $21,000. How far is that going to go? Who will pay for maintenance and upkeep on the unit? Where will that money come from? How much will they pay for the supervisor to watch these vandals? Will that 21,000 pay for 6 months worth of supervising? 1 year? Then who pays from that point on? Where will the future needed funds come from? Are there going to be grant funds available every year? These were some of the reasons I didn’t mind the county turning down the grant request. I’m not saying that getting some sort of program together is a bad idea, but we need to figure out how to fund it from year to year, not just the short term, Who want to start a program that will just have to be shut down in a year or two and then end up with equipment thats not being used
February 16, 2009 at 11:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
So are we back to volunteer work? Pure soap, water and brushes? I'm not being facetious.
February 16, 2009 at 2:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
josiesbar (anonymous) says...
I think the best way to do it is this. If we catch someone spray-painting, its 100 hours of community service cleaning up spray-paint. No pressure washers or anything, just a brillo pad or scrub brush, soap, water, and a LOT of elbow grease. If they are under 16, their parents have to supervise.
February 16, 2009 at 2:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lightenup (anonymous) says...
Is it possible to install motion-detection lights at the WAW monument? That may not solve the problem, but perhaps it would help.
February 16, 2009 at 3:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...
Create you said "Reporting names and coordinating community groups to remove the grafitti sounds like a hampster wheel to me.
Not only was the $36 thousand to pay for supervisory personnel, but it included a trailer for the power washer too."
You seemed in favor of the grant so I ask questions on how to fund the project once the grant was gone. thought maybe you had some ideas?
josiesbar, thats what I been saying all along, even on the past articles on graffiti
February 16, 2009 at 4:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...
justthefacts, maybe you have some answers to my questions? How do you fund this program once the grant is gone?
February 16, 2009 at 4:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...
LesMouche, are you saying that just because something does not belong to you that it is ok for it to be destroyed? You are a stupid person with stupid comments, You LAUGHED when some of your friends almost destroyed someone elses headstone??? WOW! you need help.
You talk about there being nothing to do, How about cleaning up graffiti, doing something worthwhile, contributing to society instead of being a burden on it.
February 16, 2009 at 6:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justthefacts (anonymous) says...
Either the community decides it has merit or it stops. That would be true of highway grant monies, the works project bills during the Roosevelt Administration, the COPS More money Clinton funded to lower the crime rates and violence to the lowest levels in 20 years, the same grants used to help establish foster care families, the same grant monies used for seed moneys for charitable groups and education programs. It's a longstand process that's been in place since the 1930's. So I guess my question is to respond to say look around at most of your infrastructure and know it is funded by federal "grant" monies, same with WPA programs and welfare to work programs under Reagan. Like I said previously, guess we can keep freezing everything and everyone can complain about how bad things are and how nobody does anything or we can invest some dollars "venture capital" in the private sector and hope to turn things around. But in order to do that, there have to be some forward thinking folks willing to take some risks and put themselves out there. It's a hell of a lot easier to sit in the cheap seats, never take a chance or step out and be counted. Good luck cleaning off 60 year old stone with a Brillo pad. Good Night and Good Luck! I'm done with this thread. No point in repeating the same thing over and over again. Good Luck Create! Maybe your education background can do a better job of enlightening than I could.
February 16, 2009 at 10:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...
justthefacts, thanks for the info, but you really said nothing, other than "Either the community decides it has merit or it stops"
DUH,
thats was my point, hence the question, How do we continue to fund a program once the grant runs out? In Todays economy (not Roosevelt's Administration) I dont see Emporians wanting to give more money out of thier pockets for this, maybe down the road, but not at this time.
As for "cleaning off 60 year old stone with a Brillo pad." NO ONE said that. You also say
"there have to be some forward thinking folks willing to take some risks and put themselves out there"
Are you one of those folks? Doubtful
You are correct maybe Create has some good answers. yours was about as illuminating as a Lightning Bug
February 17, 2009 at 6:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Life, pay attention here. No need to yell. Brillo pads were indeed mentioned when josie's bar said, "No pressure washers or anything, just a brillo pad or scrub brush..." Brillo pads work fairly well on metal or smooth surfaces, but they don't do much for surfaces like rock, limestone in particular, which is quite porous and has already actually absorbed some of the paint's pigments.
Justthefacts brings out some significant points about grants in general. He/she certainly provides some excellent examples of how grants have worked in the past and continue even today.
Grant monies are used not only to establish new projects, they are also used to further support those projects as time goes by. Grantees are welcome to reapply for grants, and if there is evidence of success, very often the grantor will once again provide funds. In fact, that's the only way many community agencies even exist. Grant funds don't simply dry up once they are granted; they are offered again and again, year after year. Libraries use grant funds to obtain books. How do you suppose some of those programs on public television and radio are broadcast year after year? Ever notice that the same foundations continue their support for the same programs? That's only one example.
If an agency were to provide good, solid evidence that a power washer/trailer with its program and plans were indeed working, grant funds would continue in the following year. Like I said, it happens all the time.
Well, I tried to explain the workings of grants. However, don't think that just because the county turned down this request for a power washer this time that it is moot. There's always room for another request down the road.
LIfe, you need to attend some of these meetings that are held around town so you can ask your questions. They are viable and deserve answers, but those answers should come from the agencies themselves. Then maybe you'll believe how it all works. I think you'll be quite surprised.
February 17, 2009 at 7:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
justthefacts- It is a fact that, in the selfish and greedy culture of todays world, the throwing of tons of taxpayer money at some problems is both a waste of time and a waste of taxpayer money.
Perfect example, The golden tarp money that was thrown at the mortgage lenders and the banks. What did they do with the money ? You can bet that a small amount went for what it was intended, the rest went for executive bonuses and stockholder dividends, why else would those businesses that received the money refuse to report what was done with it !
Most of the graffiti and vandalism that is caused to public property is caused by those who do not respect the property of others, and yes, some or most of the grafitti and vandalism is caused and done by active gangs in the Emporia area. whether you want to believe it or not, as I have said on other forums, there are active gangs in this Community.
February 17, 2009 at 7:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...
Create, I.m paying attention, were you?
you made Some valid points, thanks for the lesson but you may want to check into grant funding also. Many times grants are a One Time only grant, meaning the funds DO dry up after they are used. I am not saying this is the case in this situation but it does happen. As for the brillo pad, since justthefacts was posting in reply to me, I just assumed he meant “I” was saying to use brillo pads which I wasn’t, I guess that’s what happens when one Assumes something, I was mistaken on that point. Justthefacts talked around my questions as did you. My question was simple, how is this program to be funded once the first grant amount is used up? If you all didn’t know the answer just say so, I figured if I ask you the question, I may get some ideas, (since you seem to be in favor of the grant and were against the county turning it down). It was obvious that the commission didn’t know how to fund it down the road, or maybe they would have applied, don’t you think?
February 17, 2009 at 11:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Yes, I think, and I understand grants more than you know. I thought I made myself clear, but apparently not. I believe I'll just join justthefacts and give up. This is just a helluva long fight with a very short stick!
February 17, 2009 at 11:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
One might want to consider air pressure blasting with some sort of light grit medium such as fine sand, glass beads or even ground up walnut shells. This sort of cleaning treatment is done on brick or stone buldings and structures all the time to restore the brick and stone to a clean and like new condition.
However it will take some one who is familiar with this sort of cleaning proceedure. And again it may be cost prohibitive, without some sort of grant, etc.
February 17, 2009 at 11:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Chuck Norris could round house kick the graffiti off and leave the original structures in better shape than they were to begin with. He is also environmentally friendly, that is until they environment makes him angry. If that happens graffiti will be the least of our worries.
February 17, 2009 at 11:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
josiesbar (anonymous) says...
In my defense, I did say brillo pad OR scrub brush, haha.
I still stand by this. I think giving them a pressure washer will clean it up a lot faster, and I think that's not necessarily a good thing.
What's that, they spray painted a brick or concrete wall? Good, then they can scrub it for 100 hours with a bristle brush. And if they are under 16, their parents can watch them do it.
February 17, 2009 at 12:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
Maybe we can tax the heck out of spray paint or perhaps convince the City Commission to ban the use of it public places.
February 17, 2009 at 1:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...
Create, I'm glad your done, because you had no ideas how to continue to fund this program, even if the grant was avalible from year to year, the county would still have to match those funds year after year, So again I ask, where will that money come from? raise taxes?
josiesbar, I agree 100%, I mean why make it easy for the vandals, If it takes 2 or 3 weekends for them to get it clean with a brush,soap and water, Good! maybe they will learn a lesson. if we give them some $15,000 dollar piece of equipment to use and break, The graffiti artists may say,heck that would be kind of fun to run! maybe I could spray paint something every other week so I could play with a power washer again!
That may be a little far fetched but ya get the point.
Punishment should not be EASY
February 17, 2009 at 3:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
neighbor- If it doesn't have anything to do with a smoking ban, it won't get banned , because it is a necessary thing !
February 17, 2009 at 4:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
gemini (anonymous) says...
This may have already been suggested and I apologize if it has....I got lost in all the "pressure washing" talk and grazed over it...
But the original graffiti to the memorial is obviously "symbolic" of something (from the photos Hornet10 posted on an external board).
Why doesn't the city research what the "tags" mean and/or who they "represent" and find the perpetrators, or at least their "association," this way? Delinquents like the ones Emporia is dealing with, aren't necessarily smart and surely have left some identification in their idiot art.
February 17, 2009 at 4:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Here is some info on the graffiti, ( tags) on the WHW memoria, particularly the
XIV
~
N
o
r
t
e
Norteno street gang members often identify with the symbols XIV, X4, 14 and 4 dots. Fourteen refers to the 14th letter of the alphabet N which stands for Norteno or the Nuestra Familia. The gan associates with the color red and the words Norteno, Norte, and Northerner. Other symbols include a 5-pointed star, symbolizing the North Star and the Huegla bird, the symbol used by the United Farm Workers association- - these two tattoos (star&bird) must be earned through committing an assault or murder on their enemies, the Surenos.
Look at Hornet 10s pictures and decide for yourselves. As for me I know there are street gangs in Emporia, have been for some time now.
February 17, 2009 at 9:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
There were gans at the highschool back in the late eighties. They all tried to get me to join because I'm pretty good with the bow staff. GOSH!
February 17, 2009 at 9:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Sorry about dropping the g on the second gang word, my bad !
February 17, 2009 at 9:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Gangs be droppin Gs like nobody binness!
February 17, 2009 at 10:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
seriously must be seriously bored tonight--we get it, you love the way you entertain you
February 17, 2009 at 10:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
WOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!
February 17, 2009 at 11:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )