allintogether (anonymous) says...

I thought this stimulus was supposed to create jobs. The school modernization industry will boom and create 32 jobs here in Kansas. Heh heh. Looks like we are going to have to wait for our change. At least until after the Barrackalypse. We will survive it if government will let us and stop working against us.

February 9, 2009 at 4:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Bjnemp (anonymous) says...

Now, THAT is funny! There is enough "pork" in that Democratic Party Christmas list to keep every American in ham and hocks for the rest of their lives, their children's lives, and their grandchildren's lives. I would hope so. They will sure be paying for it.

This "stimulus" plan is a cruel joke on America and all Americans. The only "stimulus" this will create will be the tingle of joy felt by the Democrats when they get all their expensive and useless pet projects funded by you and me and the next four generations of hoodwinked citizens.

February 9, 2009 at 5:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

dalelinn (Dale Linn) says...

I'm still trying to figure out why Mr. Kelley is concerned about the economy now. He didn't appear to care when our factories were moved overseas. (Does he care about the job losses now?) He doesn't seem to care that our border laws are ignored. Oh well, maybe he can tell me "Who in their right mind would even talk about using the printing press to save the financial system, or dumping money out of helicopters?" Maybe he can tell me how going a trillion more dollars in debt is going to help us. Anybody can kick a dead body and it will move, but does that do any good? That's just about what the "stimulus" will do when Mr. Kelly says, "The president’s plan is no magic wand, but it — or a plan much like it — will do some good for a lot of Americans". Maybe Mr. Kelley can tell me who is going to pay for it? I guess in the long run it's not going to matter. Nobody is.

February 9, 2009 at 6:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

And what did the banks do with Bush's bailout? We can see how well that's working.

School modernization creating 32 jobs? Get real. Before I retired, our school district employed a large crew for building an addition. That's just one school. 32 indeed!

The whole problem here is partisan politics, period. No one is willing to give an inch, not even for the sake of the country. And no, a tax cut of a measly 1 thousand dollars won't do a thing to stop what is happening now. Not a thing.

February 9, 2009 at 7:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

allintogether (anonymous) says...

I was kidding about the 32 jobs create (Hence the "heh heh" behind that statement). My point about the job creation part of the stimulus bill is that Kelley references 35,300 jobs created or saved over 2 years in areas like healthcare and clean energy. We have been in a nursing shortage/crisis for years with no abatement despite the scholarships and myriad incentives to choose that vocation. The problem is that nursing is a demanding job that requires rigorous study and an appropriately lengthy credentialing process. We can't simply crank out a registered nurse in 6 or even 18 months. So if we are talking about adding to the unfilled RN employment slots it is a stupid choice to allocate those dollars in nursing. There are shortages in other parts of the healthcare industry including a shortage of physicians. Nursing is where the demand is highest.

Healthcare IT is another area where the president has said we needed investment. $20 billion. That will cover electronic medical records for people in New York City and maybe half of the rest of the state. When they figure out that hospitals and doctors keep their own records in their own format (paper or electronic) and electronic records are frequently kept on a proprietary platform; that dollar figure will increase dramatically. As well as the complexity of that task.

I don't know much about clean energy jobs but I understand that there will be a learning curve and many unanswered questions regarding the infrastructure, logistics and downstream problems that go along with revolutionizing our power grid. Questions that will be answered in due course and throwing a bunch of taxpayer dollars at those questions will not get them answered any quicker. Now if the government intends to switch to clean energy then how long will it take to retrain the people in dirty energy jobs to get clean energy jobs? Or will the new clean energy workers replace the dirty energy employees and the dirty energy employees are told to pound sand? Are we trading up, down or will it be a push? It shouldn't cost us any part of $800+ BILLION to find out.

I agree with create that Bush's bailout was a failure. Credit is still very tight and banks are spending the money on executives in failing institutions. Unbelievable. I am just short on patience and thinking a different majority of politicians will spend $800 billion more wisely than the previous gaggle of clowns and idiots is unrealistic.

Obama has a host of favors to repay to the unions, akorn, Pelosi, etc. and the republicans have to try to stay relevant after steering into the skid that took our economy down. No wonder nobody is willing to give an inch. Looks like politics as usual to me. You hit the nail on the head create.

February 9, 2009 at 8:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

It's sad that it's got to the point that we are helpless without the government in this country. It's even sadder that we are hopeless with the government in this country.

February 9, 2009 at 8:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

I'm sure whatever jobs the ultimate-pork-package-of-all-time does manage to create will be more than offset by jobs that are outsourced, given to H1-Visas, or given to workers brought in, whether legally or illegally. What's the point? What's the point of spending all this money to help kids go to college - all the jobs that require technical skills & knowledge are being outsourced as fast as they can, what is the point of a college education anymore? (SARCASM, before anyone jumps all over these statements).

It's easy to grow government - but nearly impossible to shrink it. At least we will get out of Iraq eventually, but we will never be able to roll back the Obamazation/socialization of our government.

February 9, 2009 at 10:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

alfalfa (anonymous) says...

The Gazette never ceases to amaze me with their total lack of financial savvy. Oh well, might as well join them,Yippee, Obama has saved the day. There will be nothing but good come of another trillion $$ of national debt, it will be so good, we will probably want to go another 2 or 3 trillion $$ more. I am so happy I can't stand it.

I wonder what is in Pat Kelleys Koolaid.

February 9, 2009 at 10:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

I would like all you skeptics to explain to me exactly what his majesty George W. Bush did to absolutely improve the lives of all americans ? I know what he did for the wealthy, but what did he do to improve anything for the poor and middle class working americans, I can't see or think of a damned thing ! After all was it not his majesty King George W. Bush who in the last months of his administration who gave billions of taxpayer dollars to the very same wealthy bank, wallstreet and corporate executives, who used the money to give themselves and close employees and confidants millions or billions in bonuses.
I say give the new man a chance and see what he can do. Surely he and his administration can't do any worse than the last one.
The pork that has been added to the current stimulus proposal is not the fault of the new president, it is a result of business as usual in Washington D.C. and Congress.

February 9, 2009 at 10:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

alfalfa (anonymous) says...

How is this nation going to cope with a $15-$20 trillion debt? That is a valid question, not an empty criticism of Obama. By all means, there is plenty of blame to go around, but I want a little better odds than "he can't do any worse than the last one".

I hope I am wrong, and this "new deal" of Obama's works wonders. If it doesn't, we have probably just witnessed the USA losing its status as an economic powerhouse, maybe forever. If I wanted to live in a third world nation, I would move to one.

February 9, 2009 at 10:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

"I would like all you skeptics to explain to me exactly what his majesty George W. Bush did to absolutely improve the lives of all americans ?"

Let me tell you. Absolutely nothing! You see, the government of the USA does not work this way. One man does not make all things bad while another single individual makes all things good. This is not reality. Sorry to burst your bubble. Am I going to be skeptical of one man saving me from financial woes? YEP! Just like I was skeptical about one man causing all of them. Seriously?! Is this what you people believe? Seriously?!

Ha ha ha! Seriously?!

.....................................................Seriously?!?!

February 9, 2009 at 11:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

Well, he TRIED to push thru legislation in 2003 to reign in Freddie & Fannie before all this crashed. Barney Frank & the Dems shot him down.

Fast forward - Fannie & Freddie crash, just like he warned, start the dominoes falling of the worst financial crisis in 75 years.

Fast forward further - Bush demonized, Barney Frank easily re-elected.

Makes alot of sense, doesn't it?

"The pork that has been added to the current stimulus proposal is not the fault of the new president, it is a result of business as usual in Washington D.C. and Congress."

But, but, but.....we all voted for "change", right? Obama promised a new government, that was NOT going to do business as usual. And he promised NO pork. And he promised to erase the federal deficit. And the most ethical administration in history (minus the tax cheaters, one of which we already confirmed). And he promised the moon. And the stars.

All we can do now is cross our fingers, hope and pray this works. If it does, he might even have my vote in 4 years. Because we, the people, have no choice in the matter anymore. We made our choice(s) last November. Nancy Pelosi is in the conductor seat of this runaway train, and she isn't going to pay attention to anyone or anything until she derails it totally. We handed her the keys and that's all she needed. We, the people, appointed the fox to guard the chicken house. Too late to cry about it now. In a couple of years we can decide again, maybe. But by then she will likely have the coop stocked full of dependent chickens who will vote for her & her cohorts no matter what. Ya see, once you train the chickens to not fend for themselves anymore, and just live off of your handouts, they pretty much just stay in the coop and and behave like good docile chickens from that point on. I think she & her ilk are the real problem with our government right now, not Obama.

February 9, 2009 at 11:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...

Obama may or may not help the county, but I for one will be giving him a chance, I do know the last eight years have not been working out so well for us.
I watched Obamas press conference last night and the man made several good points and his plan for the future sounds pretty good to me (for the most part), But what do I know, I'm just some hick from the sticks. As are most of the posters on here, so when I read all the complaints about what our goverment is doing or not doing, it seems funny to me considering no one on here could do the job or even comprehend what all is envolved.
seriouslyfolks is correct, it is not a one man job, it is huge team effort.

February 10, 2009 at 6:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

dalelinn (Dale Linn) says...

LifeGoesOn and on, and on, and on. Same old, same old, same old. Obama has surrounded himself with the same old same old, same old........and you are going to give him a chance for what?.........change? I'm sure I'm a hick from the sticks, but I don't expect change from the same people that have taken us to this abyss. I'm thinking that a lot of us could pick people with an eye to trying to fix the problems such as Ron Paul. How about the economist Peter Schiff? Oh, no this slick talker didn't do that. He went with the same old, same old, same old. So much for his team effort. He's giving us the same old stimilus spending that George W. did. More debt and spending ala bigger government.

February 10, 2009 at 7:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

You can't blame Obama for the tax cheats. After all, they weren't hired after their "mistakes" were discovered, and they had the bazzingers to fess up. Good riddance to them. As I have said before, they can't possibly be the only people who could perform those jobs.

I'll have to agree with open_eyes re: Nancy Pelosi. While open_eyes offers intelligent appraisal of her doings, let me add this silly one: Have you ever really watched her during news reports? All she does is search for the cameras and smile. It's like watching a robot reacting to lights. Try it next time.

I agree with LifeGoesOn; we need to give this administration a chance to do what it has planned to do. I too listened to his press conference last night, and it did make a lot of sense to me. I will continue to support this man and his administration including the point that he is taking his discussions to town hall meetings, away from Washington and the partisan fracas there.

What I can't understand is people who give this administration a blanket NO without offering one solution. Mentioning people who were not elected doesn't count either. That's wishful thinking. They didn't get in. What ideas did the unelected have that were so great? Perhaps you can write a letter to Obama on the web site to suggest it.

I like the chicken analogy, open_eyes. Can these bankers be like those chickens of yours? They ate all the scratch we farmers gave them so now they're lounging around in that big Las Vegas coop meeting other chickens.

I am interested in the press conference today with the Treasury Secretary, especially after what happened with the $350 billion botched Bush banking bailout.

February 10, 2009 at 8:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

dalelinn (Dale Linn) says...

Create, if you were referring to me mentioning Ron Paul and Peter Schiff, the guy you are "giving a chance" ignored them when he was making up his cabinet and advisors. Of course he could have appointed people in these positions that would work on the problem instead of bigger government and throwing more money at our problems. If you're referring to me when you say "people who give him a blanket No, I did offer a solution. He could have people around him that would work on the problem, (I repeat) not appoint people that have had a hand in creating the problem. Or.......we could do as you suggest, just trust our government some more. One solution would be to concentrate on bringing back some of our manufacturing base. This would be attacking the problem, not throwing a trillion dollars of borrowed money away. Perhaps you should do a little research on Ron Paul and Peter Schiff.

February 10, 2009 at 8:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

If we believe some of the candidates that didn't get in have good ideas why shouldn't we talk about them and try to rally more support for next time? As far as not offering any solutions, the candidate"s" that didn't get in DID offer solutions but they didn't have the title Republican or Democrat so no one listened. This is(I believe) what oxen was talking about with the "Same old, same old, same old." comment.
What does it really matter if a few people don't jump on the Obama band wagon? It doesn't seem that it was important for people to rally around Bush. Isn't this partisan politics? We should rally around the Democrat without any critical thought but not the Republican? Seems kinda off to me.
Before you start thinking I didn't give the Republican party any critical thought, I did. More than the Democrats in fact. The Republicans should know better than to pull the stuff they have been doing, they have failed us. I can't fault the Democrats for their socialist agenda, they've at least been pretty honest about it. They just had to wrap it in some pretty words like "redistribution of wealth" and "change" and the sheeple in this country ate it up. It's as if we went to the drive-thru at Republican Burgers and bought a socialist value meal and we didn't really like the taste of it so we go across the street to McDemocrat's and order the exact same thing but now we say "SUPER SIZE IT!" and some how expect better food just because there is more of it.

I'm glad that oxen brought up Ron Paul because he endorsed the Presidential candidate that I voted for, Chuck Baldwin. I know what you're thinking, "I thought the other candidate was McCain? Uuhhhuhh?". Well let me be the first to tell you that we do in fact have more than two choices. Look it up.

February 10, 2009 at 9:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

Well, actually, create, we did manage to squeeze at least one tax cheat in before the public got into too much of an uproar about it - Geitner, our new Treasury secretary.
Pelosi I just can't stand. Ever since her infamous "I'm the most powerful woman in America" speech, I think it's obvious who's number ONE on her list - herself. And she's the absolute QUEEN of putting party first and not working together. Just what we need more of in office, right......
Yes, we need to give this administration a chance, but a chance to do what? People voted in mass for "change" - they didn't really know what change, didn't have a concrete vision of what that would look like, they just knew once the campaign slogan turned to "4 more years of Bush", they wanted whatever else was offered. Well, they got it. Now, we're finding out exactly what this "change" meant. In many, many ways, it was no change at all. What was all this promise about no lobbyists? Guess what, look the other way, because Obama is still hiring them. Our national deficit was a "disgrace" - guess what, look the other way, you ain't seen nothing yet, deficit-wise. Would Obama have been elected if he had promised us that he was going to make our current deficit look like peanuts? If McCain had been elected, and tried to push thru this exact same stimulus package, I bet Mr. Kelley would be writing scathing articles about pork excesses & deficits wrecking our economy instead of his current love sonnets. Pork is pork, no matter how you package it, a deficit is the same $$$, regardless of which political party runs it up.
My point about we no longer have a choice - polls show the majority of Americans are now NOT in favor of this huge spending bill, but it's too late. Pelosi & company are saying, "you voted us in, that means we can now do whatever we want", heck with what you voted her in for. We voted the fox to guard the henhouse, we now have NO say whatsoever if the fox decides to eat all the chickens - his response to us if we complain is, "hey, you elected me to guard the chicken house - so I'm doing exactly what you wanted me to do". Gee, we didn't realize in time exactly what "change" meant for the chickens....

February 10, 2009 at 9:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

dalelinn (Dale Linn) says...

If you want more information on how the "change" is more of the "same", take a glance at:

http://www.financialsense.com/Market/...

Where is that enema (change) that nurse Obama promised?

February 10, 2009 at 10:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

When I hear Obama carrying on yet again about the "failed policies of the last 8 years", in his speech last night, I would like to point out exactly what policies "failed" us. This whole house of cards came tumbling down mostly due to the mortgage crisis - in simplified terms, that is pretty much at the heart of it all.
On the following link, there are 4 videos in the center of the page just down a little ways that explain the housing crisis and it's start quite well. The 2nd video follows the trail in detail. The 3rd video jumps back & forth showing who was arguing for and who against more regulation. Do you always buy into the popular notion that Dems want more regulation & Repubs less? Think again. Even Bill Clinton admits in the 3rd & 4th videos Dems blocked regulation that could have prevented this.
Now, these videos are partly pro-McCain ads, but they are rather long, and do a pretty good job of explaining things, in many instances with the actual videos & words of those at the heart of the matter. If you have the time, give them a look, especially the 2nd & 3rd videos.
Then lets talk about the "failed economic policies" of the last 8 years......

http://sbvor.blogspot.com/2008/09/197...

February 10, 2009 at 11:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

goodoleboy (anonymous) says...

The housing crisis was only part of the pie, there are other factors, I understand that NO ONE on either side is clean when it comes to the housing crisis. There are just so many things at work though, the housing crisis might very well have been the straw that broke the camels back but what about the other things, like something you often mention and are accurate on, the cost of Illegal immigration to taxpayers, and what about the Iraq war? Borrowing money to fight a war that was started under false pretenses, it all adds up.

As for you statement on the stimulus being unpopular and us not having a choice, I think that to be false, as of today a recent CNN poll found that 54% favor the stimulus.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/0...

I am sure that are polls out there that contradict it to an extent, but I think you will find that no matter where you look roughly half favor it, that is within the boundaries of choice to me, no choice would have been when over 70% of Americans disapproved of the war in Iraq yet no one listened, and these last elections sent a clear message that this behavior will not be tolerated.

Will it hold true for next elections? I sure hope so, this piece of legislation will either hang the Obama administration in 4 years or be the platform on which he gets reelected. I myself cannot stand Pelosi either , but she is second to Barney Frank in my book, I would not mind seeing either or both gone, they are bad for business, and to be honest I don't think Obama cares for them either.

February 10, 2009 at 1:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

goodoleboy (anonymous) says...

seriouslyfolks,

I am glad you brought up Ron Paul, to me he is the only choice for the Republicans in 2012, I have read his blogs, columns, and seen him in a few informal forums such as Bill Maher(who amazingly signs off on him) and I must say he impresses me. He could have had a real shot at Obama in my book, the youth vote was surprisingly strong with him. I hope they wake up and give the guy a shot in 2012, but I have a feeling they will push Palin or something to that effect on us which will just push them further into obscurity then they already are.

February 10, 2009 at 1:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

dalelinn (Dale Linn) says...

I agree wholeheartedly with goodoleboy, the pie that has caused this is cut in a few pieces. It's too bad that the peaches that caused this are still in the pie. I would have felt a lot better about Mr. Obama if he had put some fresh apples in it. Here's three quotes from our (what Mr. Kelley thinks) very able leaders:

'You don't need God anymore, you have us democrats.'
- Nancy Pelosi (said back in 2006)

' America is--is no longer, uh, what it--it, uh, could be, uh what it
was once was...uh, and I say to myself, 'uh, I don't want that future, uh,
uh for my children.' ''
- Barack Obama

'Paying taxes is voluntary.'
- Sen. Harry Reid

I used to have a calendar with George W.'s wit, a new one for every day.

February 10, 2009 at 1:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

If they push Palin they are done in my book. I will write them off completely. Bobby Jindal is someone to watch. The Republicans better do something or we are all in a world of hurt.IMHO

February 10, 2009 at 1:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

The numbers do jump around alot on the percentage of Americans that favor the stimulus package. I had not seen the latest polls, last I had seen the majority were against. Thx for the update.
I've never said any of this was all due to one thing, or one party. We've been getting hit with alot of things for a long time, but when it comes right down to it, what started all this bank failure/bailout? The MORTGAGE crisis. And just where are the roots of that? In the so-called "failed economic policies" of the last 8 years? Just exactly WHO's policies? WHO tried to correct it? WHO blocked it?

Don't believe me. Ask Bill Clinton, he'll be honest (for once) and tell ya....

And then, given all that..... who do we re-elect with easy margins of victory? Who used to work as a lawyer forcing banks to make these bad loans? And then who do we elect to guard the chicken house?

What the heck, the rest of the lemmings are heading over the cliff, might as well just run with the pack....

February 10, 2009 at 2:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

dalelinn (Dale Linn) says...

I probably should get out of the Republican party, but Serious, what have you against Palin? I couldn't much stand to watch her praise McCain, but I don't think she had much choice there. I was looking at her before McCain ever mentioned choosing her as a running mate. I'll have to check out Bobby Jindal.

February 10, 2009 at 2:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

goodoleboy (anonymous) says...

And who had a VP that stood to gain a great deal from rebuilding Iraq, and who stood to profit from high oil prices? It goes both ways but the question is sound. Perhaps I missed it last night, he said "failed economic policies" not "failed economic polices of the republicans" he and any other person that is well read and informed know that both Republicans AND Democrats are to blame for the Housing meltdown.

I tend to look at things more from an analytical standpoint though, current estimates put the cost of the war at approx 850billion, and the cost to our economy at approx 3 trillion, had we not gone and went to war for nothing do you not think we would be in a heck of a lot better position to deal with this situation? My point is that this was something COMPLETELY under our control, I wish Bush had the hard on for Illegal immigration that he did for Iraq( and judging from a few of his quotes in the last days of presidency he did too.)

"What the heck, the rest of the lemmings are heading over the cliff, might as well just run with the pack...."

Tell me when this untrue of this nation, we have risen and fallen together over the years, it is ability to weather the storms and preserver that make us a great nation, I'm not about to toss in the towel yet, it's like you have already stuck a fork in this administration and this bill, it could fail, but it could work too.....

February 10, 2009 at 2:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

I've already said I have no choice but to hope that this bailout works.

Well, if we want to look at who stands to profit from certain things, look at all the Freddie/Fannie money, and who's pockets it lined in the video. Yes, we can point out a zillion things on both sides, and sidetrack this to high heaven, off on every tangent imaginable, but the current economic meltdown was precipitated in the largest part because of the mortgage crisis. People saw it coming. People sounded the alarm. And certain "well read and informed" (supposedly) other politicians..... seem to think they are blameless (watch Nancy Pelosi & Barney, among others, on the video).
Nobody is 100% innocent, and nobody gets 100% of the blame. But in this case, some people had it square in their sights, and some key players in kep positions showed complete and utter ineptness. And then the latter all got re-elected, while the former got most of the blame.
Just a rant on the "un-well read and uninformed-ness" of many American voters last November (and no, I am not aiming this directly at the Presidential election). You & I may realize it, but look how many didn't - and still don't. :(

February 10, 2009 at 2:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...

Oxen, You said
"He could have people around him that would work on the problem, (I repeat) not appoint people that have had a hand in creating the problem. Or.......we could do as you suggest, just trust our government some more. One solution would be to concentrate on bringing back some of our manufacturing base. This would be attacking the problem, not throwing a trillion dollars of borrowed money away."

Part of Obama's plan includes a $150 billion fund to promote and develop clean energy technology over 10 years -- which will create up to 5 million green jobs -- a $60 billion infrastructure fund and a $1 billion-a-year start-up fund for small and mid-size manufacturers to convert to clean technology. He would pay for this agenda through a cap-and-trade system that would auction permits for carbon dioxide emissions

So my question is this, What do you mean we need to concentrate on bringing back some of our manufacturing base??

February 10, 2009 at 4:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

Well, that all remains to be seen. I've seen all sorts of numbers thrown around for jobs created, 3, 4, 5 million. If it's that simple to create jobs, why haven't we just been throwing money around like this every time unemployment creeps up?

I'll believe it when I see it. I'm hoping, I really am. I have no choice but to.

February 10, 2009 at 5:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

dalelinn (Dale Linn) says...

open_eyes

I'm thinking we already have enough government jobs. Nothing like bigger government (tongue in cheek). It is commendable to "go green", and I do think our government should (because of past inept government, for the last 20 years) put citizens to work at these tasks. That is still not the same as good free enterprise jobs. Maybe we should all work for the government? That's the way it's going. Socialism?

February 10, 2009 at 5:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

oxen
I really don't have anything personally against Palin herself, but she was completely destroyed by the media, and let's admit it, some of the things she said. While I can forgive her and believe she can mature into a good leader, I think it's going to be impossible to convince the majority of the voters of that. It would be bad strategy to put her up front when there are others(Bobby Jindal 2012!!!!!) that haven't had the scarlet letter R put on them by the media. I hope that the Republicans can rise from the ashes like the Democrats did after Kerry lost in 04. Howard Dean did a good job of rebuilding that party, too bad they are America hating socialists.................WHOOOPS.........Did I say that out loud? Anyhoooo my point is the Republicans really have to do it "right" this time or it's "Goodnight Gracie".

February 10, 2009 at 5:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

dalelinn (Dale Linn) says...

seriouslyfolks, I think it's already good-night Irene. With this last "stimulus" on top of the debt we have already accumulated. No manufacturing base to rely on. A corrupt Sourthern border. A humongus trade deficit. A congress and president no longer in control. There is not much doubt that the Federal Reserve has the reins. A congress that has given manufacturing tax benefits to move outside of the U.S. Now we have a president that thinks bigger government is the answer (not much improvement from the idiot we had). We baby boomers have sat back (with the rest of the citizens) and let our goverrnment get out of control. The congress and president are not done with their trillions of dollars spending. The greatest nation in the world is already on her knees with her head bent over. She's just waiting for the axe to fall. I'm sorry to feel this way, but let's be realistic. I have read that the Federal Reserve is owned by two banks in Europe. Who knows? The fact is that it is privately owned and firmly in control. There is back room talk that it is all about world government.

February 10, 2009 at 7:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

If it is world government in the making we know what's next.

February 10, 2009 at 7:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

Yeah, we complain that a VP stood to make money from Iraq, and then Immelt, the man who not only has run GE into the ground while drawing $20 million a year, but also continued to do business with Iran, is named to Obama's economic advisory board. THAT'S change I can believe in?????

I remember the flap over Palin & the infamous "Bridge to Nowhere". I wonder how many bridges to nowhere are in our new pork package? I researched & found that the bridge was expected to generate 470 jobs. Why were spending projects like that bad then, but good now?????

February 10, 2009 at 7:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

It's disrespectful to talk bad about Democrats but Republicans are fair game. It's funny how that works.

February 10, 2009 at 7:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

What really scares me is.... what if this doesn't work? Then what? Throw another 2 trillion at it? 3? What is the timeline? If it doesn't work in 2 years, will they be telling us another 2? What if we're in a depression till 2012? Will we be told it will take 4 more years of spending? Let's see, technically we entered a recession in 2001, although the economy started going south summer of 2000, and with 9/11 happening in the middle of that, the recession ended the following November (probably despite Bush's "failed policies" - LOL). I know this is much worse (although right after 9/11 nothing seemed like it could have been worse) - just trying to get some sense of what kind of a timeline we can expect. Of course, our last huge spend, spend, spend policy ended up with a decade-long depression, but we won't go into that again, because that was in the past.....
So I'm just wondering - whats the projected timeline here? Is this massive pork-bill expected to "jump-start" the economy this year, next, 2011, 2012, 2019? What's everyone's forecast?

February 10, 2009 at 8:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...

The more I read and try to keep up to date on all the opinions, do some research on the pros and cons of Obama's package, I have came to the conclusion that no one including myself can or will do a damn thing to change what is going to happen in washington over the next several years. we all can piss and moan, point fingers and complain, but No One on here will change Anything, We all will just have to sit back, take it day by day and Hope and Pray things get better. While I agree will some and disagree with others, it really does not matter. Obama and those who are in office right now Will Decide our fate, like it or not,, I'll stand behind my President and hope he makes my life a little better. I have no other option and neither do any of you

February 10, 2009 at 9:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

I'm not about to toss in the towel either. Some of you sound panicky. Like Wall Street today. What were investors expecting, a magic act? There are no instant results, and we must be patient.

February 10, 2009 at 9:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

I've said repeatedly, I have no other option than to hope it works. That's all I'm asking, how long is reasonable to be patient? I'm not expecting instant results - I'm just wondering, what is a reasonable timeline? At what point do we decide this did or didn't work? Or does none of that matter? As I was told on here about the 30's depression, forget how long it takes - whenever it is over, then at that point we'll look back and say "it's over, so it worked". Well, with that reasoning, then Obama has already rescued us all. Regardless if it takes 6 months or 8 years, if/when it ends, then it was all a success. I would just kindof like to get a general sense of what most people here are expecting it to take before things turn around. 2 years? Just asking.

February 10, 2009 at 9:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

There is nothing we can do? How about this for something we can do? Stop living beyond our means. Most of the foreclosures are from people living beyond their means. This is something practical we should be able to do pretty easily.
Isn't just sitting on your hands and hoping to be saved by the government pretty much giving up? I for one refuse to believe that my future is solely in the hands of politicians. Some of you believe that but not this guy. Nope, not today.

February 10, 2009 at 9:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...

seriouslyfolks good post, that was kinda what my point was, We can only control Our Lives, complaining about our government isn't going to change much, I hate to say it but none of us here n this site have enough pull or are important enough to make a change in Obamas plan. So the best we can do is take care of our own and help our friends and families until things start to turn around

February 10, 2009 at 9:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

Ok, so, basically, what I'm hearing here is, it doesn't matter. If things turn around this summer, great, if they haven't turned around 4 years from now, and unemployment hits double-digits before then, then the attitude should be, give it time, we're on the right track. Should we just skip the 2012 elections alltogether & save money?

February 10, 2009 at 10:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

No we should resolve our selves to vote for Bobby Jindal in 2012. If Obama and crew manage to do some good when Obama has zero expeirence in governing, imagine what Jindal can do. Take a look at Louisiana and see what he is doing, impressive.

February 10, 2009 at 10:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

I'm asking a simple question. I'm simply asking how we gauge whether or not this pork bill succeeds. Obviously, I think if our economy turns around dramatically (like this year) that's a no-brainer, but if it doesn't, what & how are we going to gauge success? 2 years, 5, 8? I realize nobody can predict the future, and things are very complicated, but come on, we're being force-fed this massive pork chop with the mantra that we can't wait, we have to get things going NOW. So, is there a yardstick or timeline somewhere, is there a point at which we can say either this did or didn't work? Basically, how will we know who to vote for in 4 years, if nobody can look back at the last 4 and say this or that did or didn't work? 4 years from now, if unemployment is double-digits, our deficit is at 3 trillion+, will we say this was a failure, or will we all say "its working, it just needs a little more time....like maybe just 4 more years".....
I'm NOT being impatient. I realize things aren't going to happen immediately. I'm just asking what a resonable expectation is, before we decide to continue the current course, or whether we all vote for another "Change we can believe in"..... (only in a different direction)....

February 10, 2009 at 10:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

Observation
You got to be kidding me with this one! "Get rid of your non edible animals." They're all good eatin' ifn' ya know how to fix em.

February 10, 2009 at 11:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...

Observation, Thought your post was pretty funny, then I realized you had just described Me! although i do agree with Seriously, there aint no such thing as a non edible animal, sum justa taste bettern then others..

open eyes, Say you see no change AT ALL in 4 years, what are you going to do? Vote for someone else right? Same on the flip side, If there is great changes in the next 4 years, then Obama may get to stay for another term right? Either way, you and I are not going to be able to do one thing to change it from one way to the other. We can only control our little corner of the world and hope that those in power do something for us that will make a difference in our lives. It is a sad fact but if you are honest with yourself, you know that to be true. Its not like any of us on this site will ever be ask by the president or his staff what we think or how we would change policy. So sit back and try to enjoy the ride!! JMO

February 11, 2009 at 5:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

Great posts, LifeGoesOn and seriouslyfolks. Yes, we must take care of our own little corner of the world, be vigilant, watch for bargains, and tend our gardens. Yum, squirrel stew!

Now here's what shocked me as I watched CBS news early this morning. They featured a house for sale in a New Jersey suburb, $379 thousand, reduced to $275 thousand. It sits on a small, narrow lot, 3 bedroom FRAME FIXER UPPER!!! The one bathroom looks like something out of the 1950's, complete with turquoise tile, and it looked like there was a serious leak in there. There were no updates whatsoever. Who pays that kind of money for a house like that??? Talk about sticker shock. Am I being naive or do I live in Kansas? Hey wait a minute, I DO live in Kansas, in an 1892 Victorian that is well-kept, but it ain't worth no million dollars.

This is the sort of speculation that has brought ruination to this country. I'm still shocked. I'd rather live in Kansas.

February 11, 2009 at 7:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

Oh, and don't forget, bank CEO's will be on the hotseats in congressional testimonies today. People are living in their cars for crying out loud, so I want to hear what these #$%^&* have to say.

And yes, what seriously folks says is so right. We must stop living beyond our means. I find that easy to do since I'm all by myself, but families need to have strategy meetings for spending stops.

Hey open_eyes, I bought the basil seed yesterday. Now calm down and be patient. (Not for the basil, but with the economy solutions. Basil gonna grow no matter what.)

February 11, 2009 at 8:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

Well, this is actually more of what I was looking for:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/bw/20090211/b...

Funny how attitudes have changed..... we've screamed bloody murder for 8 years, now everyone seems to be on Prozac..... LOL

Someone sent me a video of people taking 4 cell phones, placing them in a circle all pointing together, with several kernals of unpopped popcorn in the middle, calling the phones, and watching the corn pop. Haven't tried it yet (don't have enough cell phones) - but if anyone does, let us know, it could be a "greener" way of popping corn, saving the environment, cutting utility bills, etc...... LOL

February 11, 2009 at 9:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

Well, I think it has been determined that the cellphones popping popcorn is a hoax.... darn.... I was all set to "go green" when watching my next movie.... LOL

Maybe cellphones can speed basil growth???? :)

February 11, 2009 at 9:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

Hey Observation, I'm with you on unpalatable poodles, but they eat guinea pigs in countries like Peru and Venezuela.

Basil seed at Waters Hardware. Support your local merchants. No TARP for basil, a most secure green asset for anyone's back yard. Smells wonderful too, but there's no secret in the seeds, it's all in the gardener. Dig?

February 11, 2009 at 10:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

I think we're moving towards socialized basil growing. The government will tell you what seed to plant, when to plant it, how often to water it, (even though your years of experience show you that their way of doing it drastically reduces your yield) and then they will take 80% of your crop and give it to the bum down the street who is too lazy to grow his own basil. But his wife was just implanted with octuplets so now they get 95% of your basil. (Oh, did I mention that the people getting your basil crop are not even in this country legally?) But no matter how hard you work out there in your garden, create, they're going to give the job to someone else who is cheaper, (even though they don't know the difference between a basil plant & a weed, and each year will tear out all the basil plants and you will be forced to replant them all, on unpaid overtime), and tell you it's because "you didn't want that job anyway". (Unless you agree to work 28 hours/day 8 days/week, and only get to keep 1% of the basil).
Yes, we WANT the government to do that for us. That's change we can believe in. But, heaven FORBID, they infringe on my freedoms by listening in on my cellphone while I'm having a conversation with a known Al-Qaeda terrorist in Pakistan...

There. Did I manage to get most of my rants all summed up in one nice paragraph or two? - LOL

February 11, 2009 at 10:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

My neighbor used to have a poodle. They're still a lookin' fer Fluffy. I wished I woulda had some fresh basil at the time.

February 11, 2009 at 11:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

slvrnblck (anonymous) says...

I thought I might chime in here.

First of all the "healing" that will need to take place is going to take a lot longer than the 4 years Obama has. It will take him at least to the end of a second term (if he makes it that long). But changing policies, bailout bills etc etc is not going to fix the problems until we fix ourselves. You can blame the banks for making the bad loans but it is the consumer who signed the loan. The automakers wanting the bailout money have no one to blame but themselves. Toyota has led the way for years and why we don't follow their lead is beyond me. Ego got in the way in my opinion. The Government keep trying to help it's people but it should focus more on educating them to not make stupid choices. Quit giving handouts to people who don't deserve it. They made their bed and now they have to lay in it.

I do think Obama could be the right man for the job though. He is a very good speaker and could motivate people to quit whining about their situation and start doing something about it. Only time will tell.

February 11, 2009 at 11:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

I remember another former president who was a very good motivational speaker. His motto:

"government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem"

Other things in that same address:

"You and I, as individuals, can, by borrowing, live beyond our means, but for only a limited period of time. Why, then, should we think that collectively, as a nation, we're not bound by that same limitation? .......

In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. From time to time we've been tempted to believe that society has become too complex to be managed by self-rule, that government by an elite group is superior to government for, by, and of the people. Well, if no one among us is capable of governing himself, then who among us has the capacity to govern someone else?"

Today's motto: (Obama) "Government is the only solution".

February 11, 2009 at 11:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

nutsaboutools (anonymous) says...

Thank you slvrnblck. As I've been reading the comments, I kept asking the same questions. This whole situation didn't happen over-night, it wasn't the entire responsibility of the government (and especially not the President, we're not a dictatorship) and the financial institutions.

All Americans have a part in this mess. It just all adds up. It's going to take all Americans to show some accountability/responsibility to turn things around. We need to live healthier, drive safer (helmets, seat belts, attentive, etc.) (reduce health costs), spend smarter (and buy American-made when possible) (buy fuel efficient vehicles). Those that are "better-off" need to step up and help those who are not.

Executives need to be held more accountable. It just seems that the concept of laying-off hard working employees, to "reduce costs", and then themselves receiving "fat" salaries, raises, bonuses and "perks" is just plain wrong.

The automobile industry needs to develop more fuel efficient vehicles and stop "pumping" out "gas guzzlers". The technology exists to do a lot better than what they are currently offering. We need to ELIMINATE our demand on foreign oil and significantly reduce our demand on domestic oil. Americans need to walk more (rather than hopping in their car to drive a mile or so), or ride a bicycle, or carpool.

Local governments need to stop over-assessing homes (to raise their tax base).

If we're depending solely on the government to get us out of this mess, we've got a very long wait then. It's like President Obama said, we all need to work together to turn this country around. We need to stop pointing fingers and placing "blame". We need to do whatever we can to rebuild our country.

February 11, 2009 at 12:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

"Government is not the solution, it's the problem" - Ronald Reagan, 1980.

"Only government can provide the short-term boost necessary to lift us from a recession this deep and severe......Only government can break the vicious cycles that are crippling our economy" - Barack Obama, 2009

And, once again, from Reagan:

"You and I, as individuals, can, by borrowing, live beyond our means, but for only a limited period of time. Why, then, should we think that collectively, as a nation, we're not bound by that same limitation? ....... Well, if no one among us is capable of governing himself, then who among us has the capacity to govern someone else?"

February 11, 2009 at 12:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

I wish the last two posters would have read the other posts cuz I'm pretty sure that's what most of us have been saying.

February 11, 2009 at 12:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

Whoops I wasn't refering to you open_eyes. We must have posted at the same time.

February 11, 2009 at 12:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

Oh no problem, seriouslyfolks. Sometimes someone has a better way of putting things, I don't mind different attempts at saying the same thing. I just thought Prez Reagan said it about as well as could be, I apologize for posting it twice but I thought it bore repeating, I think he summed it up quite well.

February 11, 2009 at 12:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

For those of you who don’t think President Obama is on TV nearly enough, there’s good news. He’s got two more prime-time addresses coming up this month.

Just to make it interesting though, the one slated for Feb. 24 comes packaged with a Republican response.

Yep, it’s the annual State of the Union. Except in the first year of a presidency, it’s an address to the Joint Session of Congress. But it’s pretty much the same thing.

Ad-in

Despite the presence of a Republican response, Barack Obama has a big advantage.

More people pay attention to the president’s address. He gets to speak in front of the entire Congress with the orchestrated standing ovations while the rebuttal is filmed in some closet with a webcam.

But to the victor goes the spoils. Whoever wins the election gets to have the big microphone.

But, still, what Republican would turn down the chance to give the GOP response? None of them. It’s a big deal.

Bobby Jindal

And this year, the honor goes to Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal. The 37-year-old governor and former congressman is well liked by the GOP establishment and is frequently mentioned as possible candidate for the presidency in 2012 and 2016.

“Gov. Jindal embodies what I have long said: the Republican Party must not be simply the party of ‘opposition,’ but the party of better solutions,” House Leader John Boehner said.

Honored

In a statement Jindal said he was honored to deliver the Republican response.

“Here in Louisiana, we have first-hand experience with reforming government and cutting taxes to stimulate our economy in uncertain times,” he added. “This is a terrific opportunity to talk about our great state to the nation.”

February 12, 2009 at 11:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

josiesbar (anonymous) says...

I think we are about to experience another economic paradise just like when Clinton was in office. They always credit Clinton with economic bliss in the 90's, and I think we are headed for it again. Just look at the Dow! It's the same as it was in 1997, so that means we are DEFINITELY headed in the right direction!! Right??

February 12, 2009 at 12:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )