PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA has a new problem to solve: When even the best and the brightest have been tarnished by the poisonous sense of privilege in the nation’s capital, where can he find the competent, experienced people he needs to help him create the change he has promised in American life?
Tom Daschle was a good choice for secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services. He is smart and hard-working and has long dealt with health-care issues in the U.S. Senate. He still has many friends in the Senate and his reputation was clean. Any president would have been comfortable nominating him for a Cabinet post.
Then, as his confirmation hearings began, it became known that Daschle had been slammed with more that $120,000 in back taxes and fines for not declaring a gift of the use of a chauffeured limousine. With that revelation, Daschle’s public image switched from that of a clean-cut reformer from South Dakota to just another Washington weasel. Once Daschle understood that his nomination was damaging the administration, he withdrew his name from consideration.
Hours later, Nancy Killefer, whom Obama had nominated for a new post in which she would oversee elimination of inefficient government programs, withdrew her name. Tax problems again.
It was not the first time that the president lost nominees to potential scandals. Even before Obama’s inauguration, New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson withdrew as the nominee for commerce secretary when it became known that he and his administration were the subject of a federal investigation of the handling of state contracts.
Richardson — who may or may not have done anything wrong — was also a sterling nominee. He is known around the world as an excellent and honest negotiator and an innovative diplomat. He would have been invaluable in trade talks. But now, his talents, just like Daschle’s expertise, will be available to the nation, at best, at secondhand.
Obama has taken the blame for the bobbled nominations. But the matter of the nominations is not just a political embarrassment for the new president, it raises the serious question raised at the beginning: When the best and the brightest are out of the running, where can the president and the nation turn?
Patrick S. Kelley
Editorial Page Editor
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Well there is always Joe the Plumber!
Oh wait he had tax trouble to.
Disclaimer*
This was an attempt at humor.
February 5, 2009 at 2:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
madpoet (anonymous) says...
If you look hard enough, you'll find skeletons in most everyone's closets. And these nominees have scads of people digging for dirt on them. I can see the limo deal as an honest error too.
February 5, 2009 at 3:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
EsqEB (anonymous) says...
The fairy tale is starting to unravel and slowly the American people will wake up and realize what and whom they have voted for. The Man of Hope and Change, said yesterday if we didn't follow his plans then a catatrophe was about to fall upon us. I thought the American people and more specifically, the liberal left, were tired of leaders who said we all had to approve of and support his ways or doom was sure to follow.
For 8 years we heard that GW was the worst President in the history of America. Obama is going to go down as one of the greatest con artists. Our economy is getting worse and worse each and every day, we are fighting two wars, etc., and he is occupied with being interviewed with Matt Lauer and otherwise being a celebrity.
February 5, 2009 at 3:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Bjnemp (anonymous) says...
You voted for "change" and you are getting it. It is called liberal left-wing sense of entitlement. Two weeks ago B. Hussein Obama's approval rating was 80%. This week a poll showed his approval rating at 55% and dropping like a rock. Or should that be "like a Barack?"
If Obama's nominees so far are the "the best and the brightest", as Mr. Kelley contends, our nation is certainly in for a difficult, if not disastrous, next four years.
February 5, 2009 at 4:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
WOW!! You can see the future! The guy has been in office all of what 3 weeks and you can judge him failure already. Wanna pick me some winning lottery numbers? I think what your missing here is that unlike some of Bush's people almost all of these people are withdrawing and not getting confirmed. So with that lets examine some of your statements.
"For 8 years we heard that GW was the worst President in the history of America. "
He was a bad president, competely evil as some make him out to be? Did he do more harm than good? Yes and the approval polls of the people of this nation support that, his freefall in approval ratings was one of if not the largest ever, and a lot of it is because people quit being sheep and realized that the war and much of what he fed us was BS.
". Our economy is getting worse and worse each and every day, we are fighting two wars, "
Wars which guess who started? We had a republican President and Congress during this and a patriotic nation backing them to do the right thing, they did not, end of story.
"and he is occupied with being interviewed with Matt Lauer "
Because communicating with the people is a bad thing right?
Fairy tale eh? I think the fairy tale that the republicans are for small government and less spending is the one that has unraveled, better stick with the reality of the situation before you bash Obama before he has even had a chance to fail or succeed.
February 5, 2009 at 4:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
"You voted for "change" and you are getting it. It is called liberal left-wing sense of entitlement. Two weeks ago B. Hussein Obama's approval rating was 80%. This week a poll showed his approval rating at 55% and dropping like a rock. Or should that be "like a Barack?""
Do you even research anything before you post?
http://www.gallup.com/poll/113968/Oba...
Even on the most conservative sites I look at it still says 2/3's
Hmmm so 2/3=67% rounded off
Did you math skills get left behind in no child left behind?
February 5, 2009 at 4:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dalelinn (Dale Linn) says...
Mr. Kelley does a lot of assuming when he calls the Washington "hogs (at the trough)" our best and brightest. What our country needs is for our capital to get an enema.
February 5, 2009 at 6:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
What we are seeing is the fact that these politicians are less than honorable to put it nicely. Why are we hearing about it now? I believe it is because for several years now we have heard of only one politicians problems, Bush. We have not held the others accountable for their bad behavior because we didn't know about it. Blago from Chicago wouldn't have been a blip on the medias radar screen when they had old Bush to kick around. I realize Blago wouldn't have done that then but you get what I'm saying. We reelected people that shouldn't have been because we believed that they were OK because Bush was THE bad guy. If we don't hold these people accountable no one will. You can not get good people in until you get the bad ones out and how are we supposed to know the difference if the media doesn't report on it. This is a case of too little too late. So how about it media? Hows about some unbiased reporting. Ha Ha Ha. That will be the day.
February 5, 2009 at 7:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justthefacts (anonymous) says...
As I recall there was another group with lower approval ratings that "W"...That would be Congress.
February 5, 2009 at 9:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Bjnemp (anonymous) says...
Goodoleboy: You are quite obviously a dyed-in-the-wool Obot, drunk on liberal Kool-aid and too blinded by the the glitter to see the substance, or lack thereof, of your new interim president. The man is in WAY over his head and his socialist ideology is to American heritage, ideals, and values as rust is to metal.
February 5, 2009 at 10:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
"As I recall there was another group with lower approval ratings that "W"...That would be Congress."
Yep, your correct, and the power changed hands in 2006 for the first time since, 94, so again lets see what happens, but I am a lot more skeptical of some of those in congress then I am of new president.
February 6, 2009 at 4:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
"Goodoleboy: You are quite obviously a dyed-in-the-wool Obot, drunk on liberal Kool-aid and too blinded by the the glitter to see the substance, or lack thereof, of your new interim president. The man is in WAY over his head and his socialist ideology is to American heritage, ideals, and values as rust is to metal."
Think so eh? You keep defending the republican party that went out and made complete hypocrites of themselves, no koolaide there either? You just don;t get it, I want a VIABLE conservative party, right now there is none. So keep spouting your nonsense, just check your facts next time. If the best you can do is just try and hurl labels instead of admitting you post nonsense with no basis in fact I really feel sorry for you. Everyone is so quick to hurl socialism at Obama when Bush just authorized some of the largest socialist legislation last year in the bailout. But Obama is the socialist right? 3 weeks into his presidency? Koolaide indeed.
February 6, 2009 at 4:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Bjnemp (anonymous) says...
You don't read so well, either, goodoleboy. Where and when did I defend anybody or anything, especially the Republican party or George Bush? What I am doing is pointing out that, as bad as things were, they will get much worse with ultra-liberal Nobama pretending to run the nation when Nancy Pelosi is actually doing so. Obama is on a fast track to becoming the worst US President in history, just ahead of George Bush.
February 6, 2009 at 11:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
EsqEB (anonymous) says...
"Wars which guess who started? We had a republican President and Congress during this and a patriotic nation backing them to do the right thing, they did not, end of story."
That does not change the fact it is now Obama's problems to deal with. Pointing the finger backwards and saying ti si someone elses fault will not help the situation. he wanted the responsibility, it is now time for him to shoulder it. be if he is anything like the sheeple who voted for him(you), he will makes excuses and point blame(like you)
February 6, 2009 at 11:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
And as long as people vote the party and not the person, people will thrash the others party, and we are stuck with politicos who care only about getting elected and not the business of the COUNTRY. NEXT ELECTION, if there is no viable candidate, LET'S ALL WRITE IN "NONE OF THE ABOVE"
Steve
February 6, 2009 at 11:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
EsqEB (anonymous) says...
"Yep, your correct, and the power changed hands in 2006 for the first time since, 94"
And the economy got considerably worse when? That's right, in 2006.
February 6, 2009 at 11:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
rbow
Instead of writing in "NONE OF THE ABOVE" you should really check out the "third" parties. I encourage everyone to do so. I got quite an education reading up on them and found the one I most agreed with and voted for him. There are a lot of good ideas out there but unfortunately they probably won't get heard by too many because people are too loyal to "their" party like it's a sports team or something.
February 6, 2009 at 12:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
allintogether (anonymous) says...
Amen Oxen,
I think they all need to go. ASAP. Both parties. I am still surprised that there are not millions of Americans in front of the white house protesting this stimulus that the chosen one is fighting for tooth and nail. Maybe we know the hogs will obviously get their way and we know WE, the American people can't take the time off and are going to have to work harder than ever to cover their tab.
I for one, want the house and senate representatives to wash dishes to cover the $900+ BILLION they want to spend. Its our money people. Tell your representation that you will not be voting for them if they vote for wasteful spending. Their contact information is published on their websites. Hopefully, it will make the money special interests throw at them look more like a high voltage, electric fence.
I am still dumbfounded by the fact that we now have a tax cheat running the IRS! Everybody ok with this? Does that mean I won't go to jail or face stiff penalties if I don't pay my taxes? No uproar from the media? This is change for the better?
February 6, 2009 at 12:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
That does not change the fact it is now Obama's problems to deal with. Pointing the finger backwards and saying ti si someone elses fault will not help the situation. he wanted the responsibility, it is now time for him to shoulder it. be if he is anything like the sheeple who voted for him(you), he will makes excuses and point blame(like you)
Unless I am hearing things we are in fact leaving Iraq and a timetable has been setn this more than we got from thr previous incumbent.
February 6, 2009 at 12:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
"Yep, your correct, and the power changed hands in 2006 for the first time since, 94" And the economy got considerably worse when? That's right, in 2006.
The factors that led to the situation we are in now started long before 2006, and there is blame aplenty to go around on both sides.
February 6, 2009 at 1:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
You don't read so well, either, goodoleboy. Where and when did I defend anybody or anything, especially the Republican party or George Bush? What I am doing is pointing out that, as bad as things were, they will get much worse with ultra-liberal Nobama pretending to run the nation when Nancy Pelosi is actually doing so. Obama is on a fast track to becoming the worst US President in history, just ahead of George Bush.
Instead of reciting Ann Coulter rhetoric make an argument and back it up with some fact and I will be glad to listen, it real hard for to pass judgment on Obama after 3 weeks, I think that goes beyond presumption.
February 6, 2009 at 1:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Lets see, 900 Billion to create 3 million jobs... that comes to... $300,000 per job.
Hey, I've got a better idea. My plan will create TEN Million jobs, and do it cheaper. Take 10 million unemployed people, give them each $50,000, I don't care what they do, they can play XBox all day long for all I care. Let's see, that comes to.... $500 Billion. (Please anyone correct me if my math is wrong). Many of them may take the money & start up their own businesses, thus creating even more jobs.
There. I've just cut the spending nearly in half, and created over 3 TIMES as many jobs as this proposal.
Or, we could just give every man, woman, & child in America $3,000. Families of 5 would be getting $15,000. Of course, that sounds more like socialism, but I think it would go farther towards "stimulating the economy" than what is being proposed.
Let's call it what it is. This is NOT a "stimulus package". This is the greatest pork-barrel spending bill in human history. Period. Putting the label "stimulus package" on it is a joke.
February 6, 2009 at 2:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
I'd like to apply for a job playing Wii all day. open_eyes where do I send my resume? I really like this idea.
February 6, 2009 at 2:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Open eyes
So your saying that investment in our infrastructure is a bad thing? Aid to the states so they can pay their workers and teachers is a bad thing. I agree with you that there is definitely pork in this bill but there is also some very good things as well. I liked the term "porkulus" myself, I felt that was pretty accurate. But the first half of the TARP bailout ended up being a farce too.
February 6, 2009 at 2:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
And exactly how much of this spending is actually earmarked for infrastructure?
That's my point, exactly. From what I am seeing, only between 3 and 5% of the entire bill are for infrastructure.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/was...
http://www.businessandmedia.org/artic...
Something like a mere $30 billion out of over $900 billion now.
Sure, it has some good things, and some bad. So lets concentrate on the good and quit trying to push thru 95% pork riding on the back of the 5% good that they are trying to sell the public. We're getting fed quite a snow job, I'm afraid, and Pelosi is bound and determined to get it all crammed down our throat. Yep, the first half of TARP turned out to be a farce, but, apparently, we learned very little from that.
The point is, they are seizing this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to steer us down a road I fear there will be no coming back from. Once we get all this massive spending passed, it will be very difficult to wean alot of Americans back off of it. Once we get pushed down this road about so far, I fear there is very little chance of ever going back.
February 6, 2009 at 3:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
The states are in the trouble they are in now because of over-spending in the first place. They would be able to pay their teachers and workers if they hadn't thrown money at everything in sight. So, to correct that, we're just going to do more of the same, only multiplied x 1000.
Well, I've been told on here before we can't learn anything from history, I guess we're not going to now either.
February 6, 2009 at 3:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Open_eyes, how do you start a business for $50,000? Remember Natasha's? They closed up shop owing the bank over $300 thousand, and who knows how much in taxes.
This afternoon we're learning that the first bailout to the banks and AIG during the Bush administration will give us practically nothing in return for all our money. It was a sham! Was it designed that way? Makes me wonder.
February 6, 2009 at 3:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
admireed (anonymous) says...
open-eyes
The states are in trouble because they throw too much money at education.
February 6, 2009 at 5:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Well spoken Obsevation
February 6, 2009 at 5:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
open eyes
I do not agree with your assessment that all the states that are in the red are over spenders, we are in red, Kansas is a rather conservative state. Example being the states that have been hit hardest by job loss over the last year, less work, less tax revenue and bingo, your in the red. I am sure you are dead on about some states, but some are just genuinely hurting.
February 6, 2009 at 5:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
Observation:
I was just pondering exactly what you said earlier today. I was listening to the news and the statements by McCain and others. As they were arguing the fine points, I realized that it could very easily be a conversation between a kid's parents. Picture it, the soft touch parent wants to provide everything for the kid so he doesn't feel the harshness of life, while the firmer parent is trying to argue that the kid is going to feel that harshness sooner or later and they are better off as moral support than financial support. Then the soft-touch parent adds in all these bonuses that they could get themselves as part of the protection package--that pool they always wanted, that ski vacation they were always going to do.................
Well, even though I'm the equivalent of the kid in this analogy, I vote for the firm touch. When we develop needs, it will create demand, and if we are looking to earn something, we will also provide the supply. I don't know if I'm making much sense to anyone else, but that's what it sounded like to me.
Anyway, thank you, Observation for stating it in a much more lucid way.
February 6, 2009 at 5:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
goodoleboy, I agree that my blanket statement was not meant for every single case - there are always exceptions to pretty much everything - but more often than not. California is facing serious financial problems due in no small part because of the enormous costs of illegal immigration. Vallejo, CA became the largest US city to file for bankruptcy mostly because of salaries & compensations for public safety workers that has gotten out of hand. Compensation for firefighters and police officers now make up 75 percent of its $87 million general fund budget, a much larger share than most California cities. Everyone seems to have forgotten how to "just say no".
Create, first of all, I said "some", secondly, I know plenty of people that have started business on a shoestring out of their garage and grown them into much, much more, and thirdly, maybe some of those people already had something put away and some plans, the 50 grand just put them over the top to be able to start it. I don't know, it was just a figure of speech. Like I said, they can play their XBox all day, my plan will still create 3 times as many jobs at half the cost of our projected current "stimulus package".
When income shrinks, most people respond by tightening the belt, not going on a spending spree. Unless the Dr just told you you only have a year to live. So, maybe that's what's happening to the US - I fear the America we have known for over 200 years is nearing its end. If this humongous pork project (I'll call it what it is) doesn't turn the trick, and fast, then the Dems have one last ace to play to stay in power. They will grant amnesty to all the illegals, who they know will vote 99% Dem for the entitlements, and it will then be all over, for good.
February 6, 2009 at 6:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Create, do you really require more that $50,000 to open your basil stand? LOL
February 6, 2009 at 6:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
USNretired (anonymous) says...
Elections over. Past is past. People in office now are still doing everything the same, that is why they ran for office. Just want to get "theirs". Politicians as a group have more in common to each other than they do to most of the rest of us. They are mostly bureaucrats who will send "pork" wherever it will give them the most return. Talk to "your" politician to tell them what you think about this pork filled package, but remember that they have to compromise with the other politicos. Trading tokens to keep their "power" intact. The screwing of the guard dogs has already started with the liberals putting the military on short leashes and shorter rations while pouring cash into pet projects. It will continue.
February 7, 2009 at 9:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
No Open_eyes, my basil stand requires quite a bit less than $50K, but that's just basil. Fact is, except for a bit of fertilizer and a couple of hand tools, it's labor intensive, my own at that. I can sell my basil at the Farmer's Market, or direct market to Reebles as I have in the past, but what if I wanted to open an Italian restaurant that featured a few of my basil rich recipes? Whoa!
Speaking of basil, open_eyes, I wish you could have tasted my lasagna yesterday. I put in plenty of fresh basil from my pots of basil in the window.
February 7, 2009 at 12:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Well, maybe instead of starting out with a chain of restaurants, you could slowly grow your business, re-invest your profits, eventually grow your business enough to the point you could open that Italian restaurant? Maybe you could start with a smaller building, and work up? Gradually adding employees, as business expanded?
I started out with a $200 car, then a $500 car, then on up until I could afford a new one. Nowadays, everyone expects a brand new $30,000 car on their 16th birthday.
Here's an article that might give you some hope: Microsoft was started out of a dorm room, and Apple was started out of a garage.
http://news.cnet.com/5208-1014_3-0.ht...
You may have heard of both of these companies, for those that haven't, they've grown considerably since their humble beginnings.... :)
February 7, 2009 at 1:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
alfalfa (anonymous) says...
The best and the brightest? Those of us who are NOT the best and the BRIGHTEST(ie smartest) are expected to either know the tax codes ourselves, or hire someone to prepare our taxes that does. If they didn't pay tax because they did not know they were supposed to, that means they are not the brightest, if they didn't because they are deceitful(which I suspect is the case) they are not the best......either way, they aren't who I want running the government, or advising those who do.
February 7, 2009 at 2:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
alfalfa
"Those of us who are NOT the best and the BRIGHTEST(ie smartest)"
I resemble that remark.
February 7, 2009 at 2:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
You've convinced me, open_eyes, because I too have worked my way up with regard to cars. A house too, I might add. Thank you. Now don't call me a Republican. :)
Now, I can see where your argument also works with regard to the housing dilemma which I believe started our economic mess -- those sub prime loans. Great numbers of people jumped into mortgages they couldn't afford. What happened to start small with these people? What happened to buying a little fixer upper on the south side like I did when I first moved to Emporia 30 years ago? What happened to renting until you've saved a down payment? What is it with these spoiled people who want instant gratification, people on a hamburger budget who have filet mignon tastes? I don't feel sorry for them.
Neither do I feel sorry about losing Tom Daschle who was getting around D.C. in a chauffeur driven limo and not paying his taxes. Good riddance. Let's move on with someone else who does pay his/her taxes. No one person is indispensable.
If foreclosures continue, the housing market stagnates or should I say strangles. On the other hand, if we help them, we're promoting socialism.
Sorry to hijack this thread with economic woes, but it does relate a little. I've listened to a lot of discussion on the national level. I'd like to see some of it on the local level. I wish we had been discussing more on the economy on the local level instead of that smoking thing which got old.
alfalfa, thanks for your explanation. I liked it ; it hit the nail square on the head.
February 8, 2009 at 9:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
daniellaughs (anonymous) says...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article...
February 8, 2009 at 1:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
djdiablo (anonymous) says...
Patrick Kelly writes, “When even the best and the brightest have been tarnished by the poisonous sense of privilege in the nation’s capital, where can he find the competent, experienced people he needs to help him create the change he has promised in American life?”
Patrick, first off, the “best and brightest” should be smart enough to know that, in the real world, we have to pay our taxes. If your or I fail to do so I can almost guarantee you the action against us will be something other than being invited to fill a high-profile, and high-salaried, cabinet post for the president.
It is astounding to me that the media has missed the real point of all of this…if the man who now directs the IRS can miss paying his taxes for three years, and by the way, still get confirmed, then perhaps this is the final “smoking gun” indicating that the tax code is far too convoluted and is crying out for reform. It would seem to follow that if you’re smart enough to head up the treasury, surely you’re smart enough to pay your taxes.
Tom Daschle is a Washington insider from the get-go. The people of South Dakota decided he was no longer worthy to represent them in the senate some time back.
Nancy Killefer, whatever else you may say about her, is apparently a tax evader.
New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, whom you call a “sterling nominee,” claimed for years he was a first draft choice baseball player who almost became a member of the old Kansas City Athletics. It was a bald faced lie and, when finally called on it, he basically claimed, “Well, I thought was!”
It was both comical and sad, but had the media been even remotely fair the man would have been dismissed as a laughingstock then and there.
“Obama has taken the blame for the bobbled nominations.” Of course. They were his nominees. Who else would you have take the blame?
“When the best and the brightest are out of the running, where can the president and the nation turn?”
Perhaps, as he promised he would, he should look away from the tired old warhorses in Washington, the lobbyist and professional politicians, and instead look to the private sector of talented citizens and business people who play by the rules and who are willing to WORK for the interest of the people, not career hacks who flit from one position to another, leftovers from the Clinton years, & personal cronies from the Chicago machine.
This is “change” that who can believe in?
February 11, 2009 at 4:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )