“Waiting until marriage” is not just a phrase for some local teens, who have vowed to abstain from sex until they marry.
That’s not an easy road for today’s teens. They’re surrounded by a culture that celebrates sex in movies, even some rated PG-13, song, books and television. Ads during Sunday’s Super Bowl football contest used sex to sell Doritos and godaddy.com.
And nearly half — 46.8 percent — of all high school students reported they had sexual intercourse, according to 2005 CDC Youth Risk Behavior Surveillance data.
For Joan Davy, Cody Dedmon, David Scott and Heather Scott, avoiding temptation is what it will take to honor a vow they made a year ago. It’s a promise to themselves, their future spouses and, most importantly, God. And it’s one the four plan to keep.
The teens, members of Emporia’s Cornerstone Baptist Church, took what they call a “purity vow” — it’s also referred to as an “abstinence pledge” — a year ago when their church sponsored its first Purity Banquet, which drew around 30 teenage boys and girls. The second annual Purity Banquet is planned for Feb. 13 with 50 teens expected.
For the four teens who spoke Monday about their lifestyle decision, attending a second banquet reinforces their decision and strengthens their resolve. It helps, they said, to surround themselves with other teens who share their values.
“I have a very good group of friends,” said 15-year-old Joan, a student at Emporia High School.
They, along with her boyfriend, share her values and understand them. Still, she recognizes the pressures.
“A lot of people at the high school choose not to take that stand,” she said.
For siblings Heather, 15, and David, 13, their family’s lifestyle helps. Their father, James Scott, is pastor at Cornerstone and the teens are homeschooled.
“I don’t have a lot of peer pressure since I don’t go to public school,” said Heather.
David agreed that it’s easier for him to avoid the “everybody’s doing it” mentality that teens are pressured to buy into.
At 18, Cody is out of high school — he graduated from Olpe High School in May and now is working toward a degree in computer programming at Flint Hills Technical College. He, too, says that his lifestyle right now helps him honor his promise.
He has no women in his computer classes, so there’s little interaction.
“Between work and school, I don’t get much time for much else,” he said.
The vows the teens made last year during the Purity Banquet were done privately. Frank Martin, Cornerstone youth pastor who organized the banquet with his wife, Zoe, said that was done to keep teens from being pressured into a public promise that they didn’t really mean.
All four teens had their own reasons for taking a purity vow. For David, it just reinforced what he’s been taught.
“It’s what the Bible says we’re supposed to do,” he said of waiting until marriage to have sex. “Because it’ll help you. Your life will be better because of it.”
Joan looked forward to the unique relationship she’ll share with her husband.
“It makes it more special,” she said. “If you have sexual relations ...
“With everybody and their brother,” chimed in best friend Heather.
“You’re all used up,” finished Joan.
Martin shared an analogy the teens have heard — comparing premarital sex and eventual marriage with buying a used car.
“We’ve got Fresh Start Auto,” Frank said. “You can go down and buy a car with 100,000 miles on it for a new price because you’ve got blemished credit.
“Why would you want to buy somebody used for full price?”
Cody preferred the candy bar illustration he heard from a speaker at a youth conference several years ago. It helped him decide to abstain even before Cornerstone sponsored the Purity Banquet.
“He pulled out a Snickers bar, unwrapped it and put the whole thing in his mouth, then pulled it back out,” Cody recalled.
The speaker then held that candy bar up with a second Snickers bar, still in its sealed wrapper.
“He asked which one we’d want.”
jackslap (anonymous) says...
Comment on the car topic....... After you drive the same model for several years, its time to trade it in and get a better one that will handle and drive better.
Jack
February 3, 2009 at 3:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
zoe_b1 (anonymous) says...
The idea that people make vows and intend to keep them suggests that they don't "trade in" their spouse for a "better model."
February 3, 2009 at 6:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eatasheep69 (anonymous) says...
Sometimes they just get old, worn out, and need replaced. Every one on the road is used. Even if it's just been used just once, it's still used.
February 3, 2009 at 6:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
February 3, 2009 at 3:24 p.m. ( permalink )
tzkmom (anonymous) says...
People will criticize a teenager that makes a stand to not have sex and then they will berate the teen that gets pregnant in high school. That type of thinking is sitting them all up to fail.
February 3, 2009 at 6:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
horsequeen (anonymous) says...
We need more teens to make this vow..Just think what it would stop.. !!!! I think it says alot for them and their parents..And the Godly life they are trying to live in this unGodly world.. You go kids.. I for one am proud of you!!!!
February 3, 2009 at 6:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
I'm fine with them making those choices, what I am not fine with is the analogies they use to describe others, its pathetic, some of these kids could very well end up divorced and "used up" like the rest of us, hell what if a spouse died, who wants an old used up spouse right?
February 3, 2009 at 7:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eatasheep69 (anonymous) says...
I wholeheartedly support their vows and admire them for making such a committment. Yes, the analogies are odd, though. I just hope they also understand there is A LOT more to making a marriage last than just not having premarital sex. Of all of the divorced couples I know, sex within the marriage had little to do with the failure of it.
February 3, 2009 at 7:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Absolute (anonymous) says...
Research has shown that teenagers that take vows like this tend to have higher rates of premarital sex than those who do not. Not only that, but they have higher rates of teen pregnancy than those who do not.
February 3, 2009 at 9:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nmse_s (Shannon Standard) says...
Absolute: Could you please provide us with some info on these stats you are mentioning that says "teenagers that take vows like this tend to have higher rates of premartical sex than those who do not". I would like to know where you recieved this info and is this source reliable?
I think that it is great these teens are taking this vow. It helps keep them accountable to themselves and more importantly to God. We cannont sit here and make negative comments about this, we should commend these kids for their pledge. I pray for these teenagers.
February 3, 2009 at 9:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
http://www.time.com/time/health/artic...
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/200...
http://www.postchronicle.com/cgi-bin/...
http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/...
There is a plethora of data that suggests this does not work, I take real issue to the analogies used in this article and the backwards logic on display here, it borders on religious elitism.
February 3, 2009 at 10:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bsmith7 (anonymous) says...
Yeah to each his own I suppose...but maybe we should encourage our youth to think for themselves, not to just simply regurgitate the dogmas of parents or a church.
I'm not looking down on anyone that makes a decision like this, but neither am I looking down on someone that doesn't. However, this does not seem to be the case for most of the people in this article. Teenagers are going to experiment with sex, that's just a fact. We might as well get used to it. And as long as they're treating each other and themselves with respect and using protection, then what's the problem?
And here's another analogy for you kiddos: Maybe marrying someone so "pure" and not "used up" is like buying green bananas...sick! Personally, I like my foods real nice and juicy!
February 3, 2009 at 10:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nmse_s (Shannon Standard) says...
Thank you for providing sources however they all referred to one study, the same study that was completed in 2001. People say there are numerous studies that show purity pledges don't work, ok well others have said the opposite. But I have forgotten we live in a society today that says it's ok teenagers have sex and babies before marriage. Let children make decisions and learn from their mistakes but parents need to be there, giving proper guidance and direction. Letting kids "think for themselves"....is scary.
1 Timothy 5:22 (King James Version)
Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men's sins: keep thyself pure.
February 3, 2009 at 11:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
There is a problem with these pledges ONLY IF they aren't given proper follow-through. The youth leaders and parents need to keep communication open and VERY honest with these teens about what kind of temptations they will encounter so they will recognize it and be able to withstand it. The other way it can go wrong is by "over-romanticizing" it. Assuring the teen that there will never be anything to regret (STD's, "unwanted" pregnancy, emotional baggage) is completely true, but that is where the promises should stop. It won't guarantee a certain degree of appreciation from the future spouse, nor does it guarantee a permanent marriage.
I appreciate the fact that each of these pledges was privately made to prevent peer pressured decisions. If these kids keep their vows with a healthy dose of reality, they will always be glad they did--no stats, just my own experience.
February 4, 2009 at 12:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Absolute (anonymous) says...
"To reach this conclusion, Janet Rosenbaum, a post-doctoral fellow at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, analyzed data gathered from nearly 1,000 teenagers, of which about 30 percent took a virginity pledge. As Rosenbaum summarizes, “Taking a pledge doesn’t seem to make any difference at all in any sexual behavior.”
The difference in birth-control use is particularly disturbing. The fact that pledgers are less likely than similar nonpledgers to use protection should be a wake-up call to federal lawmakers who long ago should have stopped spending public money on programs that jeopardize the health of the nation’s youth by censoring or misrepresenting information about contraception and safe-sex practices."
This is a new study, not an old one.
http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/... (one of the links listed above)
February 4, 2009 at 8:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
bsmith7
"And as long as they're treating each other and themselves with respect and using protection, then what's the problem?"
Is this what is happening? Respect and using protection? It seems to me the vow is the ultimate protection.
February 4, 2009 at 9:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
These vows are great IF they don't teach the individual to look down on those that do not. God has every right to look down on us but unless we our selves are sinless we can not look down on others.
John 8
1 But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.
2 Now early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people came to Him; and He sat down and taught them. 3 Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, 4 they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?” 6 This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear.
7 So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” 8 And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?”
11 She said, “No one, Lord.”
And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you;
12 Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.”
We see in these passages that Jesus forgave this "used car" and THEN told her to take her purity vow when He said "go and sin no more.” If we are to be compassionate we must also look at these "used cars" this way. We ALL look worse than "used cars" to God but he sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins to "restore" these "used cars" by grace through faith. There in lies the reason for these purity pledges.
February 4, 2009 at 9:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Happiness09 (anonymous) says...
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
February 4, 2009 at 10:52 a.m. ( permalink )
Happiness09 (anonymous) says...
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
February 4, 2009 at 10:53 a.m. ( permalink )
nutsaboutools (anonymous) says...
I think it's great what these teens are doing. Finally some "peer pressure" in the right direction. I was aghast last year when the High School Year book had a special section for the "senior class mothers".
Lately, my wife & I try to spend a little time watching "The Secret Life of a Teenager" together with our teenagers. Although it's a bit extreme, it opens up some very good discussion.
I know that so far our teenagers (2 boys & 2 girls) have been able to beat the "pressure".
February 4, 2009 at 11:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
AngelBaby (anonymous) says...
I'm Heather, and I do not look down on others who don't believe what I do......but alot of you are hurtful. -.-
February 4, 2009 at 11:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
It could also be, that the reason the "studies" show the results that they do...... is that the kids that made the pledge are also more honest when answering the study questions? I think we all know teenagers are not always the most honest at answering questions as to whether they have/have not had sex, for whatever reasons, and in both directions. Just a thought....
February 4, 2009 at 1:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Heather
I hope that nothing I said hurt you in any way. I was simply trying to illustrate that the furthering of the Gospel should be the reason for such a pledge not social reform. The Gospel message seemed to be missing from the article and the comments. I didn't mean to imply that you were judging others but that some of the quotes in the article could be seen that way.
"“It makes it more special,” she said. “If you have sexual relations ...
“With everybody and their brother,” chimed in best friend Heather.
“You’re all used up,” finished Joan."
February 4, 2009 at 1:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
There was nothing wrong with what Happiness09 wrote and it should not have been removed. IMHO
February 4, 2009 at 1:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Clearlyhere (anonymous) says...
The effectiveness of these pledges have been evaluated many times and the religious people (I regularly attend on Sundays and have been very active in my churches) who are for them continue to ignore the evidence that they don't work.
Most studies find that young people who pledge are less likely to use birth and STD control. Abstinance first, but eventually they will be grown ups who have a sex life before they get married. Educate them don't just chastise them not to have sex.
This article fails to be anything more than a fluff piece because doesn't explore the truth of these pledges. They don't work.
A Recent Study:
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org...
February 4, 2009 at 1:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
But, I notice, at least one of those studies DID show that the people that made the pledges tended to wait longer (avg of 18 months) before having sex, and tended to have less partners than those that did not pledge.
February 4, 2009 at 1:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Let me see if i can sum up the anti abstinence mind set. "Hey they are going to do it anyway. It has never worked. Let's make it safe for them when they do." The same can be said for experimenting with drugs. "Hey they are going to do it any way. Lets go and buy the crack for them so they don't have to be in danger going to the crack house. They can just get high at home were it is safe to get high on crack." I'm sorry but this "logic" just doesn't make sense to me.
February 4, 2009 at 1:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
josiesbar (anonymous) says...
Well, maybe we should ask ourselves why the US teen pregnancy rate is 5 times higher than Germany, Switzerland, and other European countries (except the UK).
My theory--legalize prostitution... Not trying to stir the pot, I just wanted to throw my opinion out there.
February 4, 2009 at 2:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Our pregnancy rate is higher because we don't use the metric system. Just manufacturing pots & pans makes for alot of boredom with too much time on our hands.
February 4, 2009 at 2:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
"It’s a promise to themselves, their future spouses and, most importantly, God. And it’s one the four plan to keep."
The only segment of that vow that has any sticking power is the "most importantly, God." We will give up too easily on promises to ourselves and others, but if there is a true relationship with God, promises to Him come with built in strength.
Outside of that relationship, this vow may not work, but that doesn't make it a bad thing. Encouragement to do right is never a bad thing--even if it doesn't stick. I hope that the adults here are not scandalizing sex in general or making it a taboo subject or these kids will fall hard when confronted with it and then be guilt-ridden for years to come. But giving children clear directions of what is right and what is wrong never hurts anything. It is failure to give completely informed instructions, in this case, that hurts.
As for the higher pregnancy and STD rates, I would argue that it isn't the sexual freedom in and of itself that makes the European rates lower, but rather it is the open communication and information that does the trick. Thanks to my mother, I can attest to the fact that openness about the subject (more than) satisfies most questions that, left unanswered ,lead to unhealthy fascinations. It also prevents prudishness and promotes open communication when sex becomes appropriate--like in marriage.
February 4, 2009 at 2:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Jettgirl27 (anonymous) says...
Those of you who think purity pledges make a difference might want to check out some recent studies done on the subject... The most recent one finding:
Five years after the pledge, 82% of pledgers denied having ever pledged. Pledgers and matched nonpledgers did not differ in premarital sex, sexually transmitted diseases, and anal and oral sex variables. Pledgers had 0.1 fewer past-year partners but did not differ in lifetime sexual partners and age of first sex. Fewer pledgers than matched nonpledgers used birth control and condoms in the past year and birth control at last sex.
Full text is here: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org...
Basically it makes no difference overall in the number of partners over a lifetime or the age at which virginity is lost. The only thing it seems to make a difference in is the use of birth control... And pledgers are far LESS likely to use it that their non-pledging peers. Turns out virginity pledges are even more stupid than they first sound. Give these kids some well rounded sex education and send them on their merry way!
February 4, 2009 at 3:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Maybe, just maybe.... parents need to be involved in their kids lives more, try to teach them values, take an active interest in their friends & what they do, etc....... and, if you do that, and your child still makes the wrong choices/mistakes, at least you did the best you could, and taught your child the best you could, and tried to teach them that their choices in life will have consequences, and tried to show them the consequences, and hence tried to help them make the right & best choices. At least give it some effort & try before you "send them on their merry way".
(Of course, if you happen to be a Republican running for office, and despite doing all that your child still makes a mistake, you'll be vilified - but if you march with NAMBLA, you'll be Speaker Of The House - so..... never mind..... LOL).
February 4, 2009 at 4:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
open_eyes! Hold your tongue--er..typing fingers!!! This is America, and we DO NOT advocate parenting. We glorify, single parenting, promiscuity, and "villages" raising our children, thus promoting those.
Trying to teach kids values is frowned upon, as we have seen in this and another recent article here. We in America believe that we should be tolerant of all things questionable and completely intolerant of morality. How dare you suggest another way!
(Judging from my posts, I must be in a bit of a sarcastic mood today)
February 4, 2009 at 4:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
What truly determines if these vows are a failure or a success? If someone takes a vow before God and fails but it brings them back to the foot of the cross in repentance is it really a failure? Can not God work that failure for good? Where sin abounds grace abounds more. So should we sin it up so grace may abound? Certainly not! God said be holy because I am holy. So if you look at these vows as some sort of social reform you may be able to look at some studies done by people who are against abstinence to begin with and declare them a failure but I'm going to wait and see what the final outcome will be. Sorry for the horrible paraphrasing and spelling but I'm in a hurry.
February 4, 2009 at 5:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...
What damn difference does it make to Any of you if the vows works or not, we have here some young people TRYING to do the right thing, Trying to have Morals and Values many of you dont have. I hope these young adults move forward with thier relationship with God and do thier best to keep thier vows, We need more kids like this in todays society and LESS People who make staments like
"There is a plethora of data that suggests this does not work, I take real issue to the analogies used in this article and the backwards logic on display here, it borders on religious elitism."
some of you Need to sit back and take a hard look at yourself, I doubt you could even come close to holding the same values as these kids. My gosh people give the kids credit for doing whats right, for trying to make a difference, for making good choices and if they fail, thats ok to, at least they are trying and not sitting back and Judgeing others!
February 4, 2009 at 7:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Great post LifeGoesOn.
February 4, 2009 at 7:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mrauto62 (anonymous) says...
We had a call this evening about these post made regarding this article..Never in my wildest dreams did I think ANYONE would criticize a teen for doing the RIGHT THING. There is a phrase that I love "Stand up for what you believe in even if you are standing alone!" I notice out of all of the teens in Emporia there was 4 that were willing to stand up in public and say this is what I believe.. Even if you don't agree with what they believe in can you imagine the strength and courage it took as a teenager to stand up and say this?? As the mother of one of these children I could not be more proud of him or the young man he has become. I personally know 3 teenage girls who are pregnant or have recently had a child in our community and because my son has been raised to fear God and to follow his commandments you would have the nerve to criticize his dedication and values for his life. He is a freshman in college and has kept himself pure. There is no shame in having a strong faith and believe in God.Nor is there shame in keeping yourself pure until marriage. It is exactly the opposite. We also have not just given our children biblical principals to base their lives on. WE have had serious talks with our children in regards to how we would prefer for them conduct themselves as well as the talks but if you don't...We love our children deeply all I can say for anyone that has a problem with a teen following a biblical principal is SHAME ON YOU.......This is a biblical principal by the way.
February 4, 2009 at 9:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
I've watched my share of "Revenge Of The Nerd Movies", so I would say there is evidence that shows kids who go out with the attitude and determination to "live it up" (so to speak, delicately) fail quite often, so maybe these studies should tell us that kids that make pledges to (ahem) (cough)(cough) "get some" actually stay virgins longer, and have a lower incidence of pregnancies & VD? So maybe that's the correct attitude to have!!!
LOL - OK, on a serious note now - the last few posters - thank you for standing up for those kids. Lord knows our government, schools & media sure won't.... :(
February 4, 2009 at 9:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
josiesbar (anonymous) says...
NAMBLA!!
AHAHAHA! WOW openeyes... WOW!
February 5, 2009 at 12:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Absolute (anonymous) says...
mrauto62,
I don't have a problem with the teens following a biblical principle. And I don't think most of the posters here do have a problem with it. So I am not sure who you are shaming here.
The remark of many has been that EVIDENCE shows that teens that make virginity pledges have premarital sex as often as those who do not, and then use birth control far less often.
The point is that it does not seem an effective way to encourage teens to avoid premarital sex.
Has anyone here been disputing whether avoiding premarital sex is bad? What I am seeing is whether the pledge is a good way to go about that.
February 5, 2009 at 8:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
"What damn difference does it make to Any of you if the vows works or not, we have here some young people TRYING to do the right thing, Trying to have Morals and Values many of you dont have. I hope these young adults move forward with thier relationship with God and do thier best to keep thier vows, We need more kids like this in todays society and LESS People who make staments like
"There is a plethora of data that suggests this does not work, I take real issue to the analogies used in this article and the backwards logic on display here, it borders on religious elitism."
some of you Need to sit back and take a hard look at yourself, I doubt you could even come close to holding the same values as these kids. My gosh people give the kids credit for doing whats right, for trying to make a difference, for making good choices and if they fail, thats ok to, at least they are trying and not sitting back and Judgeing others!
"------------------------------------------------------------
Seeing as you quoted me I am assuming this is directed at me, so I'll humor you. Again you can quote me but apparently you did not read what I said, I said that I am fine if they want to take this vow, their choice, fine with me. What I not fine with is the way people that not of the same mindset are portrayed here. Funny how you talk sitting back judging others when in fact the analogies used by the people in this article presume judgement that "people are used up". In fact as a poster above eloquently put, the things being said here in fact go againist biblical principle because theses individuals are in fact looknig down upon others. We need less people that are ruled by their emotions and get inflamed when anyone does not believe as they do in reguards to said values, which in fact no one including ME said was a bad thing, just the way it was presented and their attitudes towards others are the problem here. You really should read through the posts here before you "assume" again. You lose all credibility.
PS You said
"some of you Need to sit back and take a hard look at yourself, I doubt you could even come close to holding the same values as these kids"
Last time I checked my values are in fact my business and I am completely at peace with who I am and what I believe, so again here you are assuming again that we are all just bad people out to get these kids, which is not the case. But as the saying goes "when you assume you make ***** out of yourself" LOL
February 5, 2009 at 8:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Well said Absolute, glad to see you don't wear blinders like so many of the posters here that think religion is under fire here.
February 5, 2009 at 8:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Something else that Lifegoeson said that kinda stuck with me:
"What damn difference does it make to Any of you if the vows works or not, we have here some young people TRYING to do the right thing,"
I for one as a parent would think it is very relevant to know if these vows work. We need to be concerned and involved with our children and we have a vested interest in their well being and ensuring they grow up to be good people. So knowing that there is data out there suggesting that these vows might not work why would I as a parent want to stick my head in the sand and assume that this vow will resolve my worries? I think it is VERY relevant to know this information because if in fact these vows do not work then I should be doing more as a parent to facilate their achieving this vow through supplementing them with what they need to make it happen. They are young people TRYING to do the right correct? Then as their parent I would not be doing my job if I was not TRYING to do everything in my power to ensure they can fulfill their vow and educate them on what actually happens with these from a statistical standpoint.
And one last thing, when you post an article on a public forum, you open yourself up to public criticism, little thing called freedom of speech, maybe you've heard of it. Can't stand the heat then stay out the kitchen comes to mind here.
February 5, 2009 at 9:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Absolute
"The point is that it does not seem an effective way to encourage teens to avoid premarital sex."
What is? Is anyone else even trying? From most of the posts on here that are opposed to this it seems that they just want kids to "protect" themselves and then go for it. "Protected" sex is still sex and if it is before marriage it's premarital, that's how that works. So I don't see an alternative here.
February 5, 2009 at 9:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...
Good olboy says"
There is a plethora of data that suggests this does not work, I take real issue to the analogies used in this article and the backwards logic on display here, (((it borders on religious elitism.)))"
I say so what, the kids are doing or at least making efforts to do the right thing.
Get a life olboy, you have no creditability with me anyway. you make BS posts and say some stupid things for the most part, but thats JMO
one last thing Olboy, Knowing if the vows work or not is one thing, calling what the article said "borders on religious elitism' is something completely different. i still say SO WHAT, if the vow does not work, at least these kids are making efforts, YOU on the other hand just want to sit back and JUDGE the kids for having an opinion of thier own and using thier own "analogies" Not everybody is as perfect and well rounded as you think you are.
I would have thought that if you felt the need to make comments, you might have said something like, ( I hope these kids vows work, there is data to support that they dont always turn out that way, but I wish them luck) something along those lines, But NO, you have to call the religous elitests and say how they use backward logic, and talk about all the problems you have with what they said. You are nothing more than a bully you is full of himself
February 5, 2009 at 9:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Seriously' you missed the point of Absolute's post, the part after what you quoted might shed some light onto things.
The point is that it does not seem an effective way to encourage teens to avoid premarital sex.
Has anyone here been disputing whether avoiding premarital sex is bad? What I am seeing is whether the pledge is a good way to go about that"
There are alternatives out there but no one solution works for everyone else this article would not even exist now would it. This discussion is centered on 2 things:
Do these work?
and
The way the people in this article portray others, the "used up" references if you will. No is attacking whether making these vows is wrong or right, just if it is effective or not.
February 5, 2009 at 9:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
LifeGoeson
"I say so what, the kids are doing or at least making efforts to do the right thing.
Get a life olboy, you have no creditability with me anyway. you make BS posts and say some stupid things for the most part, but thats JMO"
NO ONE IS ATTCKING THESE KIDS ON THEIR EFFORTS TO DO THE RIGHT THING! All caps so perhaps you might comprehend it this time. Show me where I or any other poster said they were doing the wrong thing, I'm beginning to think you might suffer from some sort of syndrome that does not allow you to comprehend what you read. And if think my posts are stupid and BS then why do you continue to around quoting me and continually making an idiot of yourself in process of your quest to attempt to one up me. Read, then post, not post then read.
A poster ASKED for data on studies showing if this is effective or not, ASKED, so I provided some. I NEVER judged these kids, I said that I thought the analogies they used were distasteful and yes it does look like elitism when you look down upon others, in fact as a poster above put it(if you took the time to read it) these kids are in fact promoting one bibilical principle while not complying with another by looking down upon others. Check the post by Seriouslyfolks February 4, 2009 at 9:02 a.m. I also never said this vow is bad thing or did I frown on it, I question whether they really work, and as parent that is a damn valid question.
How about, you get a life, get a clue, and actually read these posts and THINK before you post.
February 5, 2009 at 9:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Actually my point was that the vow should be Gospel centered not merely biblical principle centered.
Romans 8:7-10
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
I believe that the success or failure of these vows can be attributed to the "if indeed" we see in verse 9. It's all good and well to struggle to live up to God's perfect standards(Biblical principles) but is it even possible without God? If it is, Christ died in vain, and He did not! perhaps instead of just looking at if these vows work or not why not troubleshoot and see why they failed. The answer can be found in the above verses.
February 5, 2009 at 10:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
A statement of fact, they label people in that post "used up" and make generalizations. Yes I think that is pathetic, I think the analogies that they use are pathetic and I think that these vows have questionable results. Tell me how that is attacking them? That I disagree with their view of others? That is attacking people? So lets recap here:
I am not attacking their vows, I and many others here question the effectiveness of them.
As I have stated before I think the analogies used here and the way they label people is not very tactful at all and certainly not on par with the biblical principles they are promoting, I feel the message they convey is a good but the way they are labeling people is not.
In short yet again you fail to grasp these simple concepts and implore you to keep posting just so that the fellow readers here can see just how far out there you really are. I am sure that if keep it up with the insults about people's heritage that you will be banned, and by the way for someone that claims to be a god fearing person, your doing a bang up job there bud, thumbs up!
February 5, 2009 at 11:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
February 5, 2009 at 11:13 a.m. ( permalink )
glarson (anonymous) says...
And we'll move this to a forum:
http://www.emporiagazette.com/forums/...
February 5, 2009 at 12:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Personally, I have more empathy towards someone who at least tries and fails than for someone who never even tries.
February 5, 2009 at 12:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )