Four Emporians were among 15 people arrested this week in Jackson County as part of a state investigation into identity-theft crimes.
“Operation Imposter” was a joint effort of the Kansas Department of Revenue’s Criminal Investigation Unit and the Kansas Attorney General’s Office. The investigation targeted people using stolen identification documents to obtain Kansas driver’s licenses.
Each of the suspects from Emporia was charged with identity fraud, forgery, and unlawful use of an ID. Identity fraud and forgery both are Level 8 felonies; unlawful use of an identification card may be either a Level 9 felony or a Level B misdemeanor.
Those who were arrested and gave Emporia addresses are:
Amilcar Alexander Magana-Rivas, 33, also known as Jose A. De Jesus Mercado.
Ruby Castro, 27, AKA Sherly Cruz Reyes.
Fernando Castro, 25, AKA Eric M. Moreno.
Ever Sandoval-Arreola, 24, AKA Luis Z. Cruz Cruz.
The arrests, which occurred on Tuesday, were announced by Attorney General Steve Six.
Six said in a news release that the revenue department’s motor-vehicles division had been seeing more fraudulent driver’s license applications in which the applicant presents genuine birth certificates and other ID documents that actually had been issued to someone else.
To read the complete story see the print the edition or the online print edition.
Comments
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upsetcitizen (anonymous) says...
Send them all back to Mexico. Seems like all they are trying to do is make the USA . Another Mexico with corruption lies and drugs and gangs. how dare they to take others identity. Do they even care about the lives they destroy by doing so ??. i doubt it. Send them Back .
December 11, 2009 at 12:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mexicanamerican (anonymous) says...
FIRST OF ALL people need to be more educated, NOT all Hispanic people are from MEXICO and these people aren't , They are from other countries, El Salvador , and Guatemala. They are human beings just like you and me, all they wanted to have was a better life and support there families. They aren't drug dealers and aren't in gangs . They have children born here WHO ARE BEING TORN AWAY FROM THERE PARENTS. NICE CHRISTMAS PRESENT HUH? IDENTITY THEFT can be taken by others americans and not just minorities! and it is a growning problem in the united states by americans also.
December 11, 2009 at 3:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
booker5m (anonymous) says...
Ok I must be missing something M/A are you saying its ok to rip someone off if they are trying to take care of their families and make a better life? LOL
December 11, 2009 at 4:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
heloves (anonymous) says...
Excuses don't solve the problem. Part of the problem by all is forgetting we are all Americans if we are born here or naturalized. Good Christmas present and example for their children. It's not the fault of law enforcement that they broke the law. The younger generation usually pays the price when adults of any race get foolish. But if they are taught to blame others rather than learning from mistakes, they're likely to follow and pass the cycle on. Most folks want a better life and to support their families. But they do so honestly. I don't see Christ pleased or being pleased when the day assigned to His birth becomes an excuse for breaking His commandment of treating others as we want to be treated. I doubt any thief appreciates being stolen from.
December 11, 2009 at 4:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
upsetcitizen (anonymous) says...
Nice Christmas present ??maybe they should be come legal. maybe they should not steal ??? .just maybe they brought this on them selves . Also How do you know what they are a member of or not of ?? People who do this are tied to this kind of stuff DRUGS GANGS AND numerous other crimes. I don't care where they came from SEND THEM BACK ...
December 12, 2009 at 12:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
If you truly are coming here looking for the better life that this country provides opportunity for, why not try respecting it and it's laws? Why not try loving it more than you love the country that you had to flee from?
Reggie
December 12, 2009 at 11:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
madpoet (anonymous) says...
Right on seriously! My thought exactly.
We all go through hard times but it's no excuse to steal from others. There's organizations out there to provide assistance if you need it. The Salvation Army would have helped them out if they were in need. Most churches offer aid too. Mine gives out boxes of food to the needy. They had options other than causing a lot of grief for those whose identies they stole. I hear it's a real nightmare to get straightened out. I don't give a flying rat's butt what race etc they are. They were in the wrong.
December 12, 2009 at 1:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
latinadiva (anonymous) says...
I agree with mexicananerican, but they know what they are doing is wrong and sure they want a better life for their families but why can they just apply for a visa to work or a citizenship. Would that not be much easier yeah it takes time but in the end they will have accomplished a better life for their family. Heloves your right there are no excuses.yy4u i also agree with you. I am a Hispanic myself and i understand why many come here thinking they are going to give their family a better life but really sometimes they just come here to suffer and put up with people not wanting them here.
As for that upset citizen you are ignorant. Your own people are taking each others identities, they are also involved in gangs and drugs and numerous other crimes too. Or NO? Yeah we are making the USA so you better start getting use to IT!! And seriouslyfolks why do you want them to do that if the ones born here do not even respect or love their own COUNTRY!!
Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek,there is neither bond nor free
there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Jesus Christ.
December 12, 2009 at 2 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
giggles (anonymous) says...
latinadiva,
A lot more Americans love and respect their country than do not. For one we don't move to Mexico and fly the American flag everywhere. Most Americans follow the laws here. There is crime all over the world. No one is saying we don't have gangs and drugs here too, but I do know that I wouldn't step foot in Mexico or any other latin country right now with their drug wars and innocents caught in the middle of that mess.
You have to look at the fact that they wouldn't be fleeing if the country was all that good. The fact that you have to flee is a big clue. The wages are bad, the drug wars and problems make the countries unsafe, and often living conditions are deplorable, hence the reason to come here. The problem many of us have is that they come here brandishing their flags, and showing such pride and high regard for countries that terrorized, used, and demoralizes them. This is confusing to us. Perhaps you can understand why perhaps not.
Perhaps they could show a little more gratitude for a country who let them escape here, legally or illegally, because lets face it we could be so much harder on those who are illegal. Instead they seem to demand the right to come over in droves and expect us to welcome with open arms, and allow them to belittle our country and ignore our rules.
Yes we have people who are already here stealing identities, and I didn't say we should be easy on them either. I would like to strip them of their rights, and send them to prison for being such a scumbag. For those who use the excuse of trying to make a better life for themselves, that is not my fault and it should only be done legally. I would never condone wrongdoing from anyone citizen or not, perhaps you should read my other posts. That is what is right, and that's the way it should be.
December 12, 2009 at 3:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
solong (anonymous) says...
There are people all over the world who want a better life, they are welcome here if they go through the proper processes just like my family did to enter this country. Why should the Latinos be given special treatment over the Russians, Chinese, or any other race, they all have to legally immigrate to this country. If you are here legally welcome, if not, go back to where you came from and do it right!
December 12, 2009 at 3:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
upsetcitizen............So if we send all those little brown skinned people back to Mexico...or where ever it was they come from....you are telling me we will then be free of "corruption, lies, drugs, and gangs. I suppose you are able to prove that statement.
December 12, 2009 at 3:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
oh...by the way...I'm just as white as you can get.....blond haired--blue eyed boy......well when I was younger.....but I'm still blue eyed and white and it don't rub off.
December 12, 2009 at 4:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
I think giggles said it all.
December 12, 2009 at 4:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
I have no major problem with giggles view and I'm not saying this to justify Mexico's drug wars....only to try to add a little balance.
The drug wars in Mexico at present are essentially a turf battle......and what turf are they battling for?......us, that's the USofA. If we could do something to greatly reduce our illegal drug demand...the drug wars in Mexico would largely disappear. We can't hold them at fault for our illegal drug problems.....just for profiting from them. Sounds pretty capitalistic to me.
December 12, 2009 at 5 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
I don't think capitalism itself is supposed to apply to illegal activities. Even communist countries have people getting rich off drugs. Socialist countries have their drug lords, too.
But your point is right - if the market in this country for illegal drugs were to dry up........ that would go a long way towards settling at least one problem mentioned above.
December 12, 2009 at 5:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justaflushaway (anonymous) says...
glad they got caught.
I have to laugh every time I go to walmart, I can almost always tell by the crap all over their pickups and the tight-ass pants there wives wear, that they think its cool, not impressed. I do know that there are Mexician Americans that just shake their heads when they see this crap, I know as I shop with my friends ... OK go ahead and rip me, if you are here illegal get you ass back to where ever you come from. now Im going to eat some mexican food
December 12, 2009 at 5:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
justaflushaway....... I also shake my head when I see American kids who's families have been citizens of this country for 200 years wearing their pants down just above their knees..... they think they're pretty cool too. Oh well, I'm sure my polyester leisure suit & bell-bottoms looked cool in my day, too (I hope) ;-)
But I agree that it is illegal to break the law and lawbreakers should be punished for their illegal activities.
WHATEVER that may be.
December 12, 2009 at 5:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
I'm not so sure about capitalism only applying to legal activity. De Beers and others profited greatly from blood diamonds....and we have no shortage of very capitalistic companies in this country right now that are profiting from cheap illegal labor.
But what in the H### does "crap all over their pickups and the tighta#### pants their wives wear" got to do with anything. I've seen plenty of tight a#### pants get in and out of trucks with N-R-A and Cowboy Up stickers all over them.....So what? Besides...I still kinda enjoy those pants no matter whats all over the pickup.
December 12, 2009 at 5:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Well....... its INTENT is profit thru legal channels. I don't think officially any country's economic model is openly based on theft and illegal activites (except maybe Somalia!!!???). But you said it yourself - they are profiting from ILLEGAL labor. Which is............ against the law........... just because those in power decide not to enforce it doesn't mean it is technically legal.
I'm with you on the clothing. To each their own, whatever trips your trigger. Think I'll get out the old muscle shirt and parade around a bit - I think I look damn sexy in it. ;-). (Good thing we don't have webcams on this forum, I'm afraid I'd make alot of people violently ill.....)
December 12, 2009 at 5:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
You and me both on the making people ill part. I said I still like to look at those tight pants...at my age looking is the only pleasure I have left. :-(
December 12, 2009 at 6:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
All of my clothes seem to be tighter than they used to be......... LOL
December 12, 2009 at 6:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
latinadiva
"And seriouslyfolks why do you want them to do that if the ones born here do not even respect or love their own COUNTRY!! "
Why would I not want them to, and who says I don't want folks born here to love and respect this country? I would appreciate it greatly if everyone obeyed the law whether they are born here or somewhere else. It just kinda makes sense if we want to live in a peaceful society. Don't ya think?
Reggie
December 12, 2009 at 6:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
MARTINEZ (anonymous) says...
To All You AMERICANS! The jobs these illegal immigrants are doing are the jobs you american's dont want to do! We make the USA a better place! All you American were once immigrants not everyone was born here so don't discriminate us!! Yes us because my parents were once immigrants even though i was born here in the USA. Yes i also understand what they did was wrong, but not just Hispanics break the law,.we have White, Black and Foreign that make worst crimes and are still in the USA.Yes i also hate that my taxes are being used to feed these families by getting every help they can. But we have to understand that they are human beings so dont judge them wrong, you american's dont know how hard it is for us and our families in our countries.
December 12, 2009 at 7:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
If you were born here.......... why are you saying .... "YOU Americans"......? Aren't you one?
I think if you'd read thru this thread everyone is well aware that there are lawbreakers in every segment of society. That's been said over and over. And everyone knows we are all immigrants (yes, even Native Americans probably came over on the Bering Strait, so even they were immigrants). That's been said over and over also.
As for just doing jobs nobody wants...... tell that to all the people Tyson turned away a few years ago.
Sure, there are some jobs out there very few Americans want. But as more and more of the jobs people DO want are outsourced and go away...... jobs are getting harder to find. You might find people are wanting those jobs more than you think they do.
Unless of course the government just gives us entitlements to sit on our butt instead.
December 12, 2009 at 8:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
marko (anonymous) says...
i didn't know bernie madoff was latino
December 12, 2009 at 8:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
MARTINEZ
I would appreciate it greatly if everyone obeyed the law whether they are born here or somewhere else. It just kinda makes sense if we want to live in a peaceful society. Don't ya think?
Reggie
December 12, 2009 at 9:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
seriouslyrfolks - It IS all just that simple.
You have a way with words ;-)
December 13, 2009 at 10:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Dido1969 (anonymous) says...
An aside, but I don’t think many Mexicans understand how upsetting some Americans find the garish displays of the Mexican flag at homes, on windows and on license plates.
Anyone who comes to America to pursue the American dream, particularly if they are receiving a handout at the American taxpayers expense, or are driving an "American" brand of car (yes I know, parts are imported from just about everywhere, but the corporate office and the bulk of employment are in America), bought by American dollars earned at a job on American soil should be proud to display the American flag.
I am amazed at folks who move here from other countries and then seemingly try to turn this into the place that they have left behind. I fail to see the logic in that. I have been to México. I don’t want to live there. And I don’t want my hometown to be like the towns I’ve visited there. It’s pretty simple, really. If those folks still want to live in Mexico, the door swings both ways.
December 13, 2009 at 12:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Although I have no problem with people being proud of the their culture and wanting to continue to identify with it to a degree.....I must agree with Dido1969 about the lack of assimilation. Earlier rounds of immigration to America brought people who worked hard to assimilate as quickly as possible to their new home. They learned the language.....even worked hard to git rid of accents and to blend in as completely as possible. Only after they had become fully assimilated did they start returning to the celebrations and customs of their home land as in St Patty's day and the various Saint days in the Italian community. It seems the more recent immigrants try hard to avoid our culture to the fullest extent possible....keeping the old language and customs...staying to themselves......and keeping other cultures at bay.
That is a lot of the reason so many of us so-called natives wonder why they bothered to come if they liked it at home so much. When we start asking those questions we start getting answers like they didn't come to join us they just came to take what they could....and those are the answers that cause so much anger towards them. Eventually it becomes a vicious circle.
December 13, 2009 at 1:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
I am simply amazed by the ignorance on display here by some of the Hispanic people here. These people are criminals, nothing to defend. Illegal immigrants are illegal, you have no defense. One day there will be an amendment to the Constitution that will stop "anchor babies" and the like, we will have some sort of immigration reform, things will change. As technology advances it will be harder and harder to "get lost" in system. In short, your days are numbered. Illegal Immigration is a major cost to this country and as we cut back and try to tackle our growing deficit it will get addressed.
Illegal Aliens that jump the border are human, but don't kid yourself that you have rights, you don't. You don't have the right to work here, or pursue anything, people of this nature are criminals, plain and simple.
December 13, 2009 at 1:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bereasonable (anonymous) says...
We are not CRIMINALS like you calls us. we are just people wating a better life for our family. We come to this country to have a better life not to kill people or to be in drugs or gang like everyone is saying. i can say da some of us migth be dat but dat doesnt mean dat all of us are the same we are just like every country we have good people and bad peope to but dat doesnt mean dat we come here to kill people or to be in gang or drugs. We just come because we have family to support. Can u be them for minute? Can u imagine how much are they sufferin rigth now?? Can u imagine how much their family are suffering? have you think about their kids do yo know how much they are crying because they cant see their mommy or daddy. i kno what they did is wrong and they kno dat too but they didnt have another option. They are just people just like you and me wanting a better life for them and their families.
December 14, 2009 at 1:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
That was an impassioned and moving response bereasonable. I think sometimes there is a bit of a disconnect between illegal immigration being just that...and therefore by definition a criminal act......and the fact that the majority of illegals are here strictly for the reasons you gave. Then the gang bangers and the dope runners excesses get attributed to all of you including the ones who are just out there busting hump for six dollars and hour because that's a lot better that the one dollar per hour you would get back home.
But I do have a question. How is it that a person who spells multi syllable words perfectly, and seems to have a fair grasp of English composition, finds it impossible to spell the simplest of single syllable words correctly? Or does spell-check allow that to happen.
December 14, 2009 at 3:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
If on the other hand if bereasonable's post was written that way to embarrass or belittle immigrants...(legal or otherwise).....then shame on you.
December 14, 2009 at 3:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
I think you called it biscuitboy.
December 14, 2009 at 5:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
I have no doubt that I did Steve...I was really just pointing out that their attempts to belittle in fact did come across as an impassioned and spirited defense. So nice try (insert negative and derogatory word of your choosing here).
December 14, 2009 at 6:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
bereasonable
I would appreciate it greatly if everyone obeyed the law whether they are born here or somewhere else. It just kinda makes sense if we want to live in a peaceful society. Don't ya think?
Reggie
December 14, 2009 at 7:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
seriouslyfolks
don't you think if somebody can spell bereasonable they would be able to spell you, and the, and that. What bereasonable actually is, is a (insert derogatory word of your choice here). He/she is one of us making fun of other people in an attempt to prove his/her superiority.....what he really did was prove what a (insert derogatory word of your choice here) he/she is.
Don't be fooled by this and end up looking like him
under_score.....are you back.....this puts me in mind of your bisquickboy stunt.
December 14, 2009 at 8:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
spectator (anonymous) says...
I must have missed something....if you are in the country illegally, aren't you in violation of the law and thus a criminal?
December 14, 2009 at 8:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Nobody is denying that spectator......but I'll bet large sums of money that bereasonable is not in this country illegally...nor is even Hispanic. Maybe we can get the Gazette to settle the bet and still maintain anonymity.......I'll betcha!
December 14, 2009 at 8:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
spectator
I believe the term is law abidingly challenged. The terms "illegal" and "criminal" are just too negative and accurate.
Reggie
December 14, 2009 at 8:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
I have a question for all of the immigrants, " illegal " or otherwise.
When this country, the USA has gone broke because of the drain that immigrants, " illegal " or otherwise have put on all American taxpayers, because of the tremendous amount of drain on Federal, State and Locally funded " Public Assistance " programs, etc., and there is no longer any supposedly " Free " handouts to immigrants, " illegal " or otherwise and there are no further jobs available, not only for the immigrants, " illegal or otherwise ", but for the life long citizens of the U.S., what country do you or will you immigrate to next and pretty much destroy the economy and that countrys way of life ? Why is it, you cannot or don' t want to even try to improve the country of your birth, ancestory and ancestors birth ?
Whether you like it or not, you as immigrants, " illegal or otherwise " are a drain on not only the U.S.'s economy, but are and will be a drain on any county' s economy, etc..
(And as far as getting free handouts, in my opinion, all immigrants to the USA, should not be elligable for public assistance, supposedly " Free Handouts ", until they are " LEGAL " citizens of the USA , " supposedly " Free Handouts " are not " Free ", someone has to pay for them and just because a chld of immigrants is born in the USA, should not make that child an automatic citizen of the USA " or any other country, for that matter ). I, know my statement, in paranthesis, will most likely draw some fire, but think about this, what other country in the world allows a child, of immigrants, born in that country, to become an automatic citizen of said country, if the parent or parents are not a citizen of that country ? I cannot think of any .
The glut and flood of immigrants to the U.S. must either be stopped or at least contolled to a managable number .
December 14, 2009 at 9:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
His/her assault on grammar is a criminal act of itself
December 14, 2009 at 9:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
lol
December 14, 2009 at 9:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
And as far as " Gang " is concerned, if one understands the true meaning or perception of the word " Gang " one would find, that if you/me or anyone professes to be part of any organized political party, religious organizations, etc., you/we are actually a gang member ! I support this statement with the following, " A gang is a group of people who, through the organization, formation, and establishment of an assemblage, share a common identity. " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang
December 14, 2009 at 9:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Wow, I guess I must be a serious " grammatical criminal " !
Richard
December 14, 2009 at 9:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
goodoleboy was talking about bereasonable, I'm pretty sure.
Reggie
December 14, 2009 at 10:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
I guess what I hear from some here is....
When I get hungry..... stealing food is justified.
When I get tired.... sleeping on the job is justified.
When I am poor.... stealing money is justified.
When I have no shelter..... stealing another's house is justified.
When I am lonely..... stealing another's wife is justified.
Isn't this how I "bereasonable" ?
Now my heart goes out to any and all of the above...... but not nearly as much if they feel as above they are justified in those actions........
December 14, 2009 at 10:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Openeyes,
It was a troll post, I would not even dignify it with a response, for if it was not then the poster surely could not comprehend anything you say anyways.
December 14, 2009 at 10:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
I understand that, goodoleboy, I think your analysis was correct about it being a troll post. But there are a couple of other posts here trying to defend the position of breaking the law, I was using the handle "bereasonable" as a sarcastic way to justify it - "be reasonable".
December 14, 2009 at 11:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Does this mean bereasonable is an I.D. thief?
December 14, 2009 at noon ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Thank you goodoleboy,,,,,that's what I've been tryimng to get across since 3:30 a.m. I'm glad they will listen to you anyway.
December 14, 2009 at 12:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
I listen to you too, biscuitboy - lol. I think you DID call it first ;-)
Anyway, ya know me..... I never miss an opportunity for sarcasm ;-) - just referenced the "be reasonable" handle in my post as such.
December 14, 2009 at 12:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Local_Hispanic (anonymous) says...
Well here goes my two cents. There were 2 things that struck me to write about. First of all, from Methusa "what country do you or will you immigrate to next and pretty much destroy the economy and that countrys way of life ?"
Do you really believe that this is the main reason immigrants come here just to "destroy the economy and the countrys way of life? Come on now! I bet there is a big line at the Mexican border for people who want to destroy USA? And just a few people in line to improve their lives. You make me laugh. A lot of the reason immigrants turn to such tactics is because they did at one time attempt to enter legally. But if you only knew how long it takes to go thru the actual process, and to then find out many years later that they cannot enter due to reasons beyond their control. That would send any NORMAL person into doing maybe something drastic if they are in desperate need. I'm not saying that it is legal or right I'm just saying as a normal human being. There are thousands of Americans especially in the last few months that have been drawn to do things maybe on the illegal side in order to provide for their families. Now is that good or bad? Why? Partly because of the economy, loss of jobs, big corporate decisions and spending, or whatever the reason. And I dont want to list what kind of activities, it's just a statement. And believe me Mexicans are not ignorant of whats going on here in the states. They know times are hard here, but it is still a lot better than Mexico. And as for which country is next? That's a good question. I know for a fact that many Americans now go to Mexico for their Medical supplies because of the cost. Why do they do that? Mexico is bad, we're taking American money to Mexico, they are drug dealers! Vicious circle huh.
And from Openeyes - your point is right - if the market in this country for illegal drugs were to dry up........ that would go a long way towards settling at least one problem mentioned above. America has become a very lucrative place to sell drugs because Americans are one of the top consumers of those products.
Maybe if we send some signs to be put up along the Mexican border saying -"America - used to be the home of the free, but now we are a country in need!" So Try Canada, Ay!
Alright let the comment rip!
December 14, 2009 at 12:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
methusla.....I have a cousin who is married to a Canadian national. They had a son....born in the USA....to a Canadian father and a US mother. The son was automatically a citizen of the U.S. But since he had a Canadian father he was automatically also a citizen of Canada. He is now in his forties and still maintains dual citizenship. It can work all kinds of different ways.
December 14, 2009 at 12:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
FarmRaised (anonymous) says...
I think it is time to address this whole "free handout" to illegal immigrant theory that so many in this country seem to have. I have worked for HUD and any non- citizen that applies for assistance through this program must have an INS check (through the INS' SAVE program) ran and approved before they can be considered eligible for HUD. Also, I believe this must done for assistance through the SRS, also.
In my experience, illegal immigrants are much too afraid of being discovered to actually apply for any type of government assistance.
December 14, 2009 at 12:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
So what about those who have fraudulent documents?
Here's just one example:
"Massive alien ID fraud ring in Oregon."
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Massive...
And not to change the subject, but for example in the current health care debate..... certain members keep shooting down language added to the bills to add increased verification for status. Yes, your point is valid...... but there appear to be a zillion loopholes and fraudulent ways around it that are being taken advantage of.
If you don't think they're taking advantage of any government assistance do some searching on how much illegal immigrants are costing, say, just California alone each year. According to the gov..... over $10 billiion/year in California alone.
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/immigra...
(Guess who's paying for it)
December 14, 2009 at 1:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Note: the above gov study about the cost to California was actually from 2004.
But I'm sure the situation has gotten alot better since then.
December 14, 2009 at 1:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
I was right - it has improved. In 2008 it only cost California $9 billion:
http://morganwrites.wordpress.com/200...
December 14, 2009 at 1:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
FarmRaised (anonymous) says...
Do you have any figures or studies for Kansas? I hate to be compared to California.
December 14, 2009 at 1:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Sorry, don't find any, at least quickly. What I do see is articles stating Kansas is however, a major route for illegal immigrants entering the country & then going elsewhere.
Besides, in 2004 Kansas passed a bill extending in-state tuition fees to illegal immigrants. (Signed by Sebelius).
http://www.usatoday.com/news/educatio...
In other words..... if you are an illegal immigrant in KS.... you can get college tuition cheaper than a legal American from out of state can.
Thank you legislature.
We did pass some (supposedly) tougher laws in 2008 - but it appears to be somewhat toothless in some areas.
http://primebuzz.kcstar.com/?q=node/1...
Much like health care...... all the laws in the world banning services to law-breaking illegal immigrants mean nothing if you don't have the means to enforce verification and/or determine if id's and documents are fraudulent.
Let's see.... just found an article from 2008 where they plan a study to determine the cost to KS..... (Oklahoma put their cost at $1.8 billion)
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/0...
Never mind. Just found where that study got killed. They decided instead to "put together a summary of existing studies". Haven't found anything else yet....
December 14, 2009 at 1:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
HenryVIII (anonymous) says...
Almost 90% of Mexicans are Catholics.
'enry
December 14, 2009 at 1:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
If you don't want to be compared to California, we'll try the opposite end of the country. Maryland just completed their study - $1.3 billion in costs.
Both of the wives that HenryVIII beheaded were first cousins.
Just another interesting stat ;-)
December 14, 2009 at 1:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Local_Hispanic
I would appreciate it greatly if everyone obeyed the law whether they are born here or somewhere else. It just kinda makes sense if we want to live in a peaceful society. Don't ya think?
Reggie
December 14, 2009 at 1:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Open Eyes,
You better place nice now, I would hate to see you put in the naughty corner. I have purposely bit my tongue in this thread but I will say one thing. Defending illegal immigration is pathetic, what is even more pathetic is the politicians that won't take a hard stance on it either because they are afraid of losing the Latino vote. As an ethnic group, I would be ashamed of that.
December 14, 2009 at 2:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Actually, I think I just found a way for people to help get their kids thru college in these tough times.
If your kids want to attend college out of state, just have them renounce their American citizenship, so they can get cheaper tuition.
It's the law so it must be good.
I kinda like it over here in the naughty corner. Besides, I usually just get a lump of coal in my Christmas stocking anyway, so if I get enough to heat the house it will save tremendously on my heating bill this winter :-)
December 14, 2009 at 2:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Local_Hispanic
Exactly what have the immigrants, " Legal " and " Illegal " done or tried to do in their countries to make their country of their ancestors, their birth, etc., a better place to provide for themselves and their families ?
Why, instead of fighting to make their country a better place, do the immigrants, immigrate " Legally " and " Illegally" to a country, any country whose citizens have fought and died to make their country a better place for themselves and their families and are still fighting to make their country/countries a better place for themselves and their families ? I for one have fought and am still fighting to make this country a better place for me, my familiy and fellow U.S. citizens and do or would not appreciate someone coming to my country " Legally or Illegally and just taking advantage of what the citizens of this or any country have fought so hard and long to attain and are still fighting for, especially since those immigrants who have come to this or any country " Legally or Illegally have not fought hard to obtain what the citizens of this country or any country have fought long and hard to attain for themselves and their fellow countrymen !
Do you believe that immigrants of anykind are entitled to or deserve to enjoy the benefits of what so many hard working peoples of whatever country the immigrants happen to go to, especially when the peoples of such a country have fought, died and worked hard for generations to obtain for themselves and their families and are still working hard/harder to keep, maintain and make a better country and life for themselves and their famileis ?
I for one do not believe the immigrants are entitled to any benefits of a country, until they have worked along side of the peoples of any country to keep, maintain and improve the conditions of any country and I think if the rolls were the exact reverse you or any immigrant would feel the same !
December 14, 2009 at 2:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
HenryVIII (anonymous) says...
methusla,
I know plenty of Americans who have moved (or migrated) to other countries in hopes of making a good living. When opportunity knocks, are you suggesting nobody should entertain options outside the borders of their homeland? Heck, I know of some folks who even do the majority of their business in Mexico. A lot of those resorts down yonder are owned by European and American companies. Is it not a two-way street? What about McDonalds and Walmart? Should they not expand beyond the US borders? (too late for that!)
These immigrants see an opportunity for a better life in America, so they move here. How is that different from the first English settlers who followed an opportunity and made the Native Americans change their way of life? If you ask some of those Native Americans, I betcha they’d say the country was better before we all showed up and changed things!
I agree that they need to come here legally, but you can't say all Mexicans coming here is a bad thing. Can you really blame them? If you had the opportunity to make some money in Canada, would you want to be told that you weren’t welcome in their country?
'enry
December 14, 2009 at 2:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
HenryVII
Henry, what I am saying or asking is, why do the immigrants, I don' t care what nationality or where they come from, Do not and have not tried try to make their own country a better place instead of just trying to improve themselves on the backs of some other country and its people ?
I am not an immigrant, yes, my mother was Canadian, but my father and his ancestors were and are Native American ! I worked hard to make life better for me and my family in my own country, in my own town and no I would not move to another country, just for moneys sake, if that were true, I would have left this country long ago !
Being able to immigrate " Legally " to another country is a long and time consuming undertaking, I understand that !
But any of lifes, worthy rewards takes time, is time consuming, usually takes a lot of hard work and even then is, sometimes, never achieved and cannot be accomplished quickly or easily, " Legally " that is ! Nothing in life comes easily or is given to you ! But a lot of immigrants believe that they should not have to wait, to enter a country " Legally " or believe that they deserve the same benefits, that the citizens of said country enjoy from years of hardship, waiting and hard work. Besides a lot of these immigrants believe that the laws of the country they immigrate to, either do not apply to them or that they are above the laws of that country !
No, I am not against " Immigration ", just against " Illegal " immigration, just because most or some immigrants cannot wait to immigrate to a country " Legally ", there for placing a hardship both on the country and its people !
As I understand it, the hold up in the public health care debate is because of the problem with " Illegal immigrants and illegal immigration " !
Can you imagine what a drain on a countrys people and economy paying for public healthcare for " undocumentated, illegal immigrants, who have forged papers !
December 14, 2009 at 4 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
HenryVIII (anonymous) says...
methusla,
So...if I take a job in Sweden and live there for the rest of my life, will you say that I
"[Did] not and have not tried to make [my] own country a better place instead of just trying to improve [myself] on the backs of some other country and its people ?"
How do you know these folks aren't trying to make their country better? A lot of the time, they'll send money "home" where it'll be spent in the local economy. This creates local jobs and more money to improve their community. You have to have the resources (raw materials and/or money) to make it better first. The workforce is a competitive place so, in my opinion, being selfish isn't that bad of a thing. It sure beats starving!
Finally, why didn't your mom stay in Canada and try to improve her own country instead of coming to the USA to improve herself on the backs of the true USA people? No disrespect to your mother intended.
The truth is that the USA is a great place. This is what draws so many people here. If the incentive is great enough, people will do anything they can to get here. It should be flattering that people want to come here. Would you rather we had a crappy country that no one wanted to come to? Not me!
'enry
December 14, 2009 at 4:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
HenryVII
I most certainly would say that if you moved to Sweden and took advantage of Swedens public healthcare system, etc., if you moved there, with " Legal Status " , however if you moved there Illegally ", with forged papers, and immediately expected to get the same benefits that the people of Sweden had worked a lifetime to achieve, I would not respect such a move !
First of all I have no objection to immigrants sending money " Home " if they are making the money as a legal citizen of a country and are paying taxes on it in said country ! Further I can see no evidence that sending money " Home " is making their home country better ! And this sending money " Home " has been going on for decades now !
My mother came to the U.S. because her father wanted to fight for the U.S. in WW I and became a citizen of the U.S. for that express purpose and unfortunately did not live to return to the U.S. he loved, fought and died for !
And I agree that the U.S. is a good place, not so great anymore and I am flattered that there are good people who want to come here " Legally " and not so flattered that some good and not so good people want to come here " Illegally " !
Again I would like to say that if an immigrant cannot or will not abide by the immigration laws of a country, then they will more inclined to not respect the laws of the land !
December 14, 2009 at 4:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Oh, and HenryVII . If these immigrants send money " Home ", then thats money that does not go back into the local City, State, County and Countrys economies !
December 14, 2009 at 4:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Ever since I first started posting on these boards methusla I have heard you speak often about all the changes that need to be made to make this country a better place. How far have you gotten with that? Does nowhere sound about right? And you live in arguably the most developed functioning democracy in the world. So what real chance does some poor schmo from some backwater cesspool country have to make it a better place?
December 14, 2009 at 4:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
HenryVII, in my opinion, the epitome of selfishness is when someone " Illegally " takes advantage of the labors of someone else , such as receiving benefits, such as SRS benefits, MEDICAID, PUBLIC HEALTHCARE, SOCIAL SECURITY BENEFITS, etc., whether they be " Legal or Illegal immigrants " or citizens of the country ! Now, to me that is the worst kind of " SELFISHNESS " !
December 14, 2009 at 5:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
biscuitboy, my friend, may I consider you a friend !
Your are absolutely right, my only logical answer must be, unequivocly, " NOWHERE and NONE ". Sad isn' t it !
Richard
December 14, 2009 at 5:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Biscuitboy, it sounds like you are saying one should just give up.
Our country wasn't always the most developed functioning democracy in the world...... it took time to get there - it didn't happen overnight. But it never would have happened if everyone fled the US to go to greener pastures.
Look at India & China. Especially India. In many ways somewhat of a backwater cesspool country until recently - or at the very least, large portions of it definitely 3rd-world. Now it's the fastest-growing democracy in the world.
Meanwhile, we have a bunch of Muslim countries who 30 years ago were in some ways quite modern, and we have a bunch of fanatics trying their best to take them back to the Stone Age.
I think change does come about in this country - sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly, sometimes not at all. I've seen some things in this country dropped because of overwhelming public opinion against it. And I've seen some things voted on overwhelmingly but them overturned by judges.
You win some, you lose some.
But if you never try, you lose them all.
December 14, 2009 at 5:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
meth
....yes you may.
....it is sad.
....and yes I am certain that smoking you would be bad for my health.....lol
December 14, 2009 at 5:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
methusla - I wouldn't say nowhere and none. It may seem that way at times....... but.... as we've all seen...... the pendulum swings both ways. I remember a near-amnesty bill that almost got shoved thru a few years ago until public sentiment against it grew. It may seem like the Nazi tea-party protestors are beating a dead horse at times....... as we see spending is continuing just like before...... but there may be some serious wake-up calls come November 2010 to some of these politicians calling us all racist Nazis. We shall see. But don't give up.
December 14, 2009 at 5:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
open_eyes
Did not mean to imply that we should stop working for positive change in this country. We certainly should continue.....(now, if only you and I could agree on what was positive change). LOL What I was pointing out was if it is hard here, imagine how hard it would be to achieve in other less fortunate places.
That does not mean that I am condoning illegal immigration or that I believe it should just be ignored. My only problem with much of this thread has been the hyperbole that always comes out along with some arguable data.
I would love to see some real hard information on just what aid is legally available to illegal aliens here in Kansas. To hear some people talk they are pretty much met at the border and given Carte Blanc to everything we have. Others...like Farm Raised on this thread......who have or do work in these agencies say that type of talk is greatly exaggerated. What is the reality
But my irritation is the greatest when it comes to the blatant racism that often creeps out......and I can hear all the fingers flying to the keyboard now to rebut that.....but the remarks presented by bereasonable as they were presented were nothing less than racist. That's not true for all...but it certainly was for that one.
December 14, 2009 at 5:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
open_eyes
Don't know about beating a dead horse......but according to the public opinion polls we looked at on the other thread you may be beating an unpopular one.
December 14, 2009 at 5:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
I have personal knowledge of a woman from Sri Lanka that was living here in rent subsidized housing......After an internal audit turned up an expired visa....therefore making her presence in this country illegal...she was promptly evicted from the housing and soon returned to Sri Lanka where she later died.
So no Carte Blanc there.
December 14, 2009 at 5:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
But can FarmRaised tell us for certain how many of the benefits he gave out were to people with forged documents? Why is it every time someone tries to make verification tougher, it often is blocked?
I assume you are talking about the health care polls....... which, (and I agree) - most people DO want health care reform. They just aren't happy with some aspects of it that our Congress is trying to shove down our throats.
Similar to immigration reform. People want it..... but Congress can't seem to get it thru their thick skulls what it is people want.
Actually, I don't think we need immigration reform as much as we just need to enforce the laws we already have. If I was King (LOL) - any mayor that declared his city a sanctuary city in defiance of federal law would 1) Immediately lose all federal funding, and 2) Spend some time in jail for violating federal law.
But that's the kind of horse I beat most often - the unpopular ones LOL
DISCLAIMER: No...... I am not cruel to animals. Merely a figure of speech.
December 14, 2009 at 6:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
I skipped over what I also meant to comment on - I agree...... it is VERY hard for those in less fortunate places to bring about positive change.
But if the people themselves there don't work at it.......
how else is it going to come about?
Reminds me of Afghanistan.......... we're pouring billions of $$ into it......... but if the people themselves don't stay there and work for change, its useless.
Yes, we do have some there who want peace and democracy. Hopefully we will give them enough space and time for it to take root and hold and spread.
But if they all flee to another country, how would it ever come about?
December 14, 2009 at 6:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Not sure what your Sri Lanka story means. There are Americans in foreign countries who come back to the US.......... and later die.
Pretty much all of us, no matter where we are, are going to later die.
It might help a little if your story told us a little more - did she have a medical condition which she could not get treated in Sri Lanka? Did she get run over by a car there? Was she near death when expelled from the US but then because of the joy of being back home got better and lived another 10 years?
Sorry..... I know I'm sounding sarcastic..... but at least in this case I truly don't mean to. I simply am asking for more details to discern the point of your tale. No sarcasm or belittling intended.
December 14, 2009 at 6:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Mia Culpa on the Sri Lanka story. Her death was totally irrelevant to the rest of it....I included it I suppose just as a way of saying end of story. Did not mean in anyway to imply that the death and the deportation were related. Sorry about the confusion!
December 14, 2009 at 6:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
I told the story only to make the point that as soon as her status was revealed in a self audit conducted by the agency involved in the case......she was promptly evicted...there was no coddling. That's the only reason I introduced that story at all...to counter the oft-made claim that all this stuff is just covered-up and overlooked.
December 14, 2009 at 6:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Thanks for clearing that up - I was confused (as I easily am - lol) ;-)
I also thought perhaps you were referring to she didn't get any government handouts...... but she lived in rent-subsidized housing, and you didn't say for how many years. So either way....... we paid......
Well, at least that's an example of our system doing its job and following the law.
I hear Obama's illegal aunt is still here.
By the way..... speaking of Obama's illegal immigrant aunt.... anyone catch this quote from her?
"I loved President Bush," Onyango said while moving toward a framed photo of Bush and his wife standing with Barack and Michelle Obama at the White House on inauguration day. "He is my No. 1 man in my life because he helped me when I really needed that help."
Hmmmm......... ;-)
December 14, 2009 at 6:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
What help was she refering to....help getting here.....help staying here.....help with her dishes....I wonder what help? But President Bush (no obomanation type slurs here) is very well loved in much of Africa. He did a lot for many people there and my guess is that may be what she is refering to....don't know.
December 14, 2009 at 6:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Sorry, I asked for more clarification on your story then followed with an ambiguous one of my own - LOL.
Staying here.
"Onyango reserved special words of kindness for former President George W. Bush for a directive he put in place days before the election requiring federal agents get high-level approval to arrest fugitive immigrants, which directly affected Onyango. The directive made clear that U.S. officials worried about possible election implications of arresting Onyango."
He also might have helped her with the dishes too....... she didn't say ;-)
December 14, 2009 at 7:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
I have been in foreign countries also (including Mexico) and have seen racism and poor treatment of outsiders.
It''s not just a bad habit or trait of Americans alone. Its a trait of people everywhere.
I might add our immigration laws and penalties are quite lax compared to many countries, including Mexico's. And some of those counties (including some in Europe) are those who many who seem to constantly criticize America and its ways often hold up for as some much more progressive or enlightened peoples that we should emulate.
December 14, 2009 at 8:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
As to there being racism and ugliness in other countries......I will fall back on something my dear departed mother pulled from her Christian heritage......"two wrongs don't make a right."
YY4U's post about language was right on target and was what made me so angry about the piece of garbage posted earlier by bereasonable. All the fake pigeon English and stereotypical assumptions do nothing to advance the cause of immigration reform. Instead, to thinking people, it only gives the appearance of a cause sought mainly by racist and extreme xenophiles. I'm for immigration reform but I in no way would lend my name to the type of thing I saw in bereasonable's post. That type of thing relegates the movement for reform to the nether world of the wing-nuts.
December 15, 2009 at 4:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Yes...I noticed the Swiss government....remember them, Mr WW2 neutrality......had banned the building of mosque in that country
December 15, 2009 at 4:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
I remember a guy...Stachu Kowalski....in the Navy. He was an immigrant from Poland.....(illegal I'm sure, since Poland was still then a tightly controlled communist cesspool).....serving in our military as part of his goal to become a U.S. citizen. He spoke broken English but was one of the brightest spirits I have ever known. I think of him occasionally even now and hope that he achieved his dream.
He also put me in touch with the little Polish girl in New Jersey that I mentioned in another post....ah, but that is another story.
December 15, 2009 at 4:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
A quote of the day I just read seems to fit here.......
........a man's respect for law and order seems to exist in precise relationship to the size of his paycheck.
Adam Clayton Powell Jr.
December 15, 2009 at 6:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
I didn't mean to imply two wrongs make a right. Just pointing out that it is a problem everywhere and not just something special to Americans.
December 15, 2009 at 8:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
I have read and re-read the posts on this thread several times and you know the one thing that really jumps out at me, in one particular post, by, MARTINEZ (anonymous) on December 12, 2009 at 7:35 p.m., is the fact that he/she, in his/her post is the fact that he/she constantly makes the comment, when refering to anyone, as, " All You AMERICANS " !
To Martinez, let me say this, yes I am an AMERICAN and believe that anyone who has immigrated to the U.S.A. " legally " , abides by and respects the laws of the land has " legally " become a citizen of the U.S.A, has earned the right to be considered as, thought of and called a U.S.A. AMERICAN and U.S.A. CITIZEN, with the benefits of a U.S.A. citizen !
Now having said that, let me ask you, MARTINEZ , a question.
Has any member of your family, including you " Illegally " immigrated to the U.S.A. ?
Do you believe that anyone who has entered a country " Illegally " should receive the same rewards and benefits that the "legal " citizens of a country have, especially, since, the " legal/legalized "citizens of that country have worked hard for and possibly, generations and died for to obtain and recieve ?
I make this comment and ask these questions, because your comment and post strikes me as someone who does not consider themselves as a U.S.A. AMERICAN, but rather, someone who is in the country, just to take advantage of a flawed immigration system and flawed immigration laws and receive that, which, an " illegal " immigrant is not entitled to !
To all those who have " Legally " immigrated to the U.S.A., have attained U.S. citizenship, abide by all of the U.S. laws, are hard working, are respectful and consider themselves, first and foremost as " loyal, law abiding U.S. AMERICANS, I say to you , welcome, may God be with you and wish you good luck in achieving the " American Dream " ! However achieving the " American Dream " is becoming more and more difficult to achieve !
December 15, 2009 at 8:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
HenryVIII (anonymous) says...
methusla,
I don't like people who do things illegally either. I would agree that those people are scum. That's why I asked for clarification because it seemed you were lumping all immigrants (legal and illegal) into one category. I just wanted to be sure you're not assuming all Mexicans in America are illegal.
'enry
December 15, 2009 at 9:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
HenryVIII
I am not nor have not assumed that any immigrant in the U.S.A. is here illegally, however there are many that are here " Illegally " ! These, " Illegal " immigrants are the ones that are a drain on the economy of the country and its people who are living and working here " Legally ", etc.
December 15, 2009 at 9:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Will be leaving you all for awhile . Need to get my famous or infamous, potato, green bean, onion, smoked sausage cassarole put together and in the oven !
I am sure there will be some of you glad to see me give you a break from my ramblings ! Talk at you later, be good you all and remember watch the " Negativity " !
December 15, 2009 at 9:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Personally I find it impossible to get my car started unless I ALSO connect to the "negative" terminal of the battery........ LOL
Hmmm....... maybe there's a deeper lesson there....... ;-)
December 15, 2009 at 9:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
what's the point?
December 15, 2009 at 11:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
HenryVIII (anonymous) says...
One time, when I was 22 years old and had not been paid in over a week, I went to the liquor store to lift my spirits. After driving to the store, I realized I left my wallet at home and I could not purchase any spirit juice. Devastated, I sat down on the curb and began to sob. Next thing I knew, a man with dark skin and a thin mustache walked up and said, "Choo need some help, my fren?" Wiping tears from my eyes, I explained my situation to which he replied, "It's ho-kay, my fren." He then proceeded into the store and I thought my pleas had fallen on deaf ears. To my delight, however, the man emerged from the store holding two 12-packs, walked up to me, and said, "Here choo go, mang." as he handed me one of the cases of beer. Overcome with gratitude, I was left speechless and could not manage to ask his name or address. Fortunately, I was able to ascertain his last name from the text on the back window of his truck. Since that day, it has been my quest to find this compassionate man and return the favor.
Don’t worry, kind sir. I have not forgotten your good deed and I will not let it go unrewarded.
‘enry
December 15, 2009 at 11:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
seriouslyfolks
Can't speak for YY4U.....but I believe the point might have been that not only us "Americans" are nice guys.
December 15, 2009 at 11:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
HenryVIII (anonymous) says...
seriouslyfolks,
Basically, YY4U is saying he was stuck in Kansas ("Central America") and some immigrant helped him get home. Therefore, I think he's trying to point out that "Mexicans ain't that bad after all".
'enry
December 15, 2009 at 11:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
I certainly hope that was the point and I agree. I have been in another country and met some very nice folks. I was hoping that that wasn't intended to garner sympathy for the illegal activity of the people in the story.
December 15, 2009 at 11:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
There seems to be a pattern showing here. The only ones that appear to be able to recognize good and compassion in others are the so-called non-believers. Hmmmm?
December 15, 2009 at 11:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
I was responding to biscuits post.
December 15, 2009 at 11:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
biscuit
"There seems to be a pattern showing here. The only ones that appear to be able to recognize good and compassion in others are the so-called non-believers. Hmmmm?"
I guess you missed when I said this "I have been in another country and met some very nice folks."
December 15, 2009 at 11:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Thanks seriouslyfolks......we posted basically at the same time. After reading yours I wished I had kept mine in the jar.
Sorry!
December 15, 2009 at 11:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
I have to stop and go back to work so maybe we will stop posting at the same time so we know what we are responding to.
December 15, 2009 at 11:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Now I am all confused.....what post of mine where you responding to when you asked the initial question...."So, what's your point?
December 15, 2009 at 11:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
FarmRaised (anonymous) says...
Posted by open_eyes (anonymous) on December 14, 2009 at 6:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
But can FarmRaised tell us for certain how many of the benefits he gave out were to people with forged documents? Why is it every time someone tries to make verification tougher, it often is blocked?
open_eyes,
No. I cannot tell you for certain how many of the benefits that I oversaw went to people with forged documents. But I can tell you how many that I ASSUME went to people with forged documents. 0! The INS would verify the A #, fingerprints, photos, and signatures on the permanent residency card. My assumption is that the INS was doing their job correctly and that these documents were valid and legal. I did have a couple of people ask for their applications back when they learned that this INS verification would be performed. They suddenly decided that they no longer needed assistance.
I also can verify that HUD, the SRS and Healthwave all require that any person receiving assistance must complete an annual review of all information and resubmit all documentation and reapply for all assistance. I can also verify that HUD will not approve any application were the applicant’s legal status will expire before the end of that year (before their next annual certification). So, if someone’s residency card expires in 6 months, they are not eligible for HUD.
I am not sure what you mean by: Why is it every time someone tries to make verification tougher, it often is blocked? Sorry. Are you saying that any changes or laws are not passed because the government wants to makes things easier on the people requesting assistance? If so, it has been my experience that the information age is actually making verification of applicant’s information much easier for the agency and harder for the applicant to trick. The SRS, HUD, Social Security, INS and IRS are all sharing and verifying each other’s information. Also, child support and the payment and receipt of child support are also easily verified. A person can no longer receive any cash assistance from the SRS past 60 months throughout their entire lifetime regardless of their circumstances or any changes to their family (child birth, death, age, disability, etc…). Accordingly, you will see less and less welfare fraud and less and less lifetime recipients of welfare. I can honestly say that I believe that the HUD program is working and is a success. I would see families receive HUD for about 4 years while going to college. Upon graduation, they would get a high paying job in their field and within a couple of months they would be moving into the new home that they were buying because of their new job. They would now be paying the taxes on their wages and their property taxes and a new family would be moving in to start the whole cycle over again.
December 15, 2009 at 11:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
biscuit
The "what's the point" one was to YY4U in hopes he would clarify how acts of kindness like in his situation had to do with a bunch of people breaking the law. When I said that my post was responding to you I was saying that about your last post as opposed to 'enry's post that was right above mine. We were all trying to post at the same time and it got confusing.lol
Reggie
December 15, 2009 at 12:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
FarmRaised, thanks for the answer - and its good to know that verification is working in many or most cases. Yet we still have people like Obama's aunt and the Sri Lanka lady listed above living in subsidised housing and so forth - SOMEHOW they managed to get around or thru the system to get that in the first place. And when I refer to efforts to block, I am referring to not only the blocked efforts to add more verification to the health care bill, but blocked efforts to increase voter validation. Yes, I hear the same old "makes it harder for people to do" argument......... and I don't buy it. I think its a cop-out. The very same people that use that argument over and over would be screaming bloody murder about ACORN if it was illegally aiding overwhelmingly Republican votes instead of the other way around. And the GOP would be taking the exact opposite position and defending it. I'm not convinced so many of those who need and deserve the aid can't prove their identification.
biscuitboy, I also take great offense to your assertion that "The only ones that appear to be able to recognize good and compassion in others are the so-called non-believers".
I've seen every-last-singlel-person on this thread that I recognize as often claiming belief have compassionate and kind things to say about people. And some newer ones who have chimed in with compassionate remarks have not said one word about their belief system.
What came out of that remark the most to me is your lack of compassion for anyone with "beliefs".
December 15, 2009 at 12:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
FarmRaised (anonymous) says...
open_eyes,
I thought that in the end of the story about the woman from Sri Lanka, her papers expired; she was removed from subsidized housing, and deported back to Sri Lanka.
I took that to mean that the system was working.
Also, I am not familiar with anything about Obama's aunt, but, if what you reported in an earlier post is correct, ("Onyango reserved special words of kindness for former President George W. Bush for a directive he put in place days before the election requiring federal agents get high-level approval to arrest fugitive immigrants, which directly affected Onyango. The directive made clear that U.S. officials worried about possible election implications of arresting Onyango.")...then...it sounds to me like the reason that she hasn't been deported is because the Republicans didn't want the bad PR before the election for deporting an opponent’s family member. Not much can be done when the President of the country is not allowing the laws to be enforced.
December 15, 2009 at 12:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
You are right, FarmRaised, the Sri Lanka story does show the system is working. But it didn't work in the beginning when she got the housing. I'm sure that things are improving over time and hope they continue to do so. As you say... the information age is making it harder and harder to trick the system. I just don't agree on blocking newer and better methods as they come available with the argument that it makes it more difficult for those who are deserving. And given the fact that we have somewhere around 20 million illegal immigrants in the country (by some estimates) - SOMETHING isn't working very well......
As for Obama's aunt - yes.... it was pretty much politics. I checked back & reread the article....Later in that article it also stated...... that the directive expired 3 weeks later. Now she has applied for asylum. Politics and grandstanding - often the 2 are interchangeable terms ;-)
December 15, 2009 at 1:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Had the methods in place now been in place when she originally applied for the housing...... it probably would have caught it right then and there. And I am sure the methods in place now met plenty of opposition from people claiming it would make it harder for deserving people to get the aid they need.
December 15, 2009 at 1:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
FarmRaised (anonymous) says...
Not really...in my experience, we were glad to finally have a way to verify the information. I never really heard anyone (in the industry) refer to someone here illegally as being a deserving person. At least not in terms of deserving assistance.
December 15, 2009 at 1:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
That is not my point. I know of very few who are saying illegals are deserving other than Nancy Pelosi. I'm glad that you were glad to finally have the means to verify. I'm sure most in your industry were as well. I am referring to pro-amnesty, pro-no-borders, anti-immigration law groups, who do have some politicians on their side.
And Republicans who don't want to do anything about verification so they can keep cheap labor. As well as Democrats who don't want to do anything about verification so they can get votes.
I still fail to see why added verification is repeatedly blocked in the health care bill. I think Joe Wilson knows more about what's going on on the inside than we do.....
December 15, 2009 at 1:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
E-Verify is a good example of what I am talking about. It has alot of opposition from different places, for various reasons. Well, nothing is perfect but it's a good start in my opinion, which will only be improved and made better.
December 15, 2009 at 2:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
I meant to add - FarmRaised - what is your take on E-Verify? And opposition to it?
December 15, 2009 at 2:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Yes, there are a lot of compassionate, thoughtful people in the world . I too, have helped and been helped by complete strangers, some were or may have been , " Illegal or Legal " immigrants, I do not know for sure ! However I do know, that I and my family have been threatened by people, who were born in and life long citizens of this country as well as those who were apparantely not from this country and were here " Legally or Illegally " ! The point is there are good and bad people in all nationalities and in or from every part of the world !
My quandry and dilemma is, when the U.S.A. ( America ) has no more jobs available to be had by the citizens of this country and the job market of this country, can no longer sustain the countrys peoples, no matter whether those peoples are indigenous to the U.S.A. or have immigrated, " Legally or Illegally " to the U.S.A., then what will the solution be ?
As I asked earlier, " move or immigrate to another country " ?
That move will not work, as I believe that the U.S.A. has the most lax immigration policy and laws of any modern industrial country in the world !
The immigrants who think it is tough to and have a long wait to immigrate to the U.S.A. ! Why don' t you/they try to immigrate to Israel, Germany, Great Britain, France, etc., and see how difficult it will be . I can say this, you had better be prepared to be thourghly investigated, scrutinized and be prepared for a long wait, to be approved to immigrate to any of those countries I mentioned above !
I do know this, if we or our government wait until that scenario arises, then it will be too late to act, if it is not too late already ! And I do know that our government had better get the immigration situation and its act under control " NOW " or this country and its citizens will be in a big pile of " DOO, DOO ", worse than the pile of " DOO, DOO " it is in at the present time !
I am not advocating " absolutely no immigration " at all ! But I am advocating, " Stronger " illegal immigration laws and stronger and better documentation proceedures and tighter borders and border security ! Along with much stiffer penaltys for drug use, drug selling and drug trafficking !
Our elected leaders had better clean up their act as well as clean up " OUR " country !
December 15, 2009 at 2:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
If they are here on a work visa then they are not here illegally.
Nice thing about a work visa - helps check if you spent 6 months in Pakistan training at an Al-Qaeda camp or not.
December 15, 2009 at 2:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
When did you need a work visa to dig taters to be served as french fries in a terrorist training camp? I thought all terrorists ate sand? That's what makes them so mean.
December 15, 2009 at 2:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
I thought all they grew in that area was opium.....
December 15, 2009 at 2:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
FarmRaised (anonymous) says...
open_eyes,
If the e-verify system is anything like the INS (SAVE) system, then I am all for it. However, don't be misled by the name. I submitted many verification requests electronically. In 4 years, only 2 were approved by the INS electronically. 9.89 times out of 10 the INS requests that all paper documents be sent to their office (Kansas City, in my case) for verification. They would usually get back to you with a yay or nay within 3 weeks.
I think people should look at the verification just like any other background check or reference check when trying to get employment.
December 15, 2009 at 2:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Interesting, FarmRaised. Thanks for the info and insight!
December 15, 2009 at 3:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
YY4U
Do you know how long a work visa is valid for ?
And do you know how many of these, so called " temporary work visa people " stay here after their work visa expires ?
And how many of these people " Legally " apply for a work visa extension ?
Let me try to enlighten you with the following,
[edit] Duration of stay
The duration of stay is three years, extendable to six. An exception to maximum length of stay applies in certain circumstances:
1. one-year extensions if a labor certification application has been filed and is pending for at least 365 days; and
2. three-year extensions if an I-140 Immigrant Petition has been approved.
Despite a limit on length of stay, no requirement exists that the individual remain for any period in the job for which the visa was originally issued. This is known as H1B portability or transfer, provided the new employer sponsors another H1B visa which may, or may not, be subjected to the quota. Under current law, H1B visa has no grace period in the event the employer-employee relationship ceases to exist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H1B_visa, also,
General Information on the H-1B Work Visa
A maximum of 65,000 H-1B Visas are issued every year the purpose of which enables professionals in "Specialty Occupations" to make a valuable contribution to the American economy. It is issued for up to three years but the H-1 B Visa may be extended. The maximum stay is six years. If a company wants to sponsor his/her application the H-1B Visa holder can apply for a Green Card.
and
Eligibility Requirements for the H-1B Work Visa
Applicants seeking temporary work in a "Specialty Occupation" may be issued the H-1B Non-Immigrant Work Visa which requires the skills of a professional. These include for example – doctors, nurses, scientists, architects accounting, computer analysts, programmers, database administrators, web designers, engineers, financial analysts and lawyers. Employers submit the petitions based on their need for the non-U.S.-resident employee. The applicant may possess a bachelor's degree or to make up for the lack of a master’s degree have requisite experience.
and
continued
December 15, 2009 at 4:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Other Work Visas Include:
H-2B Work Visa for those without a college education
E-3 Treaty Professional Visas for Australian citizens
Two types of Work Visas available for Registered Nurses
TN Work Visas for Canadian and Mexican citizens are also eligible
and
TN NAFTA Work Visa Overview
The TN NAFTA Work Visa Application Guide has general information about these temporary work visas available only to citizens of Canada and Mexico. A citizen of a NAFTA country may work in a professional occupation in another NAFTA country, as long as the applicant meets certain requirements under the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA).
The unmarried minor children and spouse of the principal applicant are entitled to the derivative status (called TD Visa), but they are unable to accept employment in the United States.
And then theres the matter of social security !
FYI,
Eligibility Requirements for a Social Security Card
A Social Security number and a Social Security Card is required by any person seeking employment in the United States. It is also required when filing taxes. Social Security cards are usually only issued to U.S. citizens, permanent residents (Green Card holders) and individuals with permission to work in the United States and not everyone is eligible to receive a Social Security card. Two types of social security cards are issued to foreigners without work authorization, as well as foreign students and individuals on temporary visas which contain one of the following restrictions printed on them:
VALID FOR WORK ONLY WITH DHS AUTHORIZATION
NOT VALID FOR EMPLOYMENT
Social Security General Information
The Social Security system dates back to the 1930s when it was established to provide financial assistance to the disabled and elderly. Employers and employees are required contribute to this fund by paying Social Security taxes. All United States citizens and permanent residents (Green Card holders) have a unique social security number. This is in order to maintain records of the funds being established, and also to allocate benefits to those entitled to receive them.
December 15, 2009 at 4:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
continued
Some workers on non-immigrant visas and temporary visitors and students are also allowed (and sometimes required) to obtain a Social Security number. The Social Security card is a very important document in the U.S. because it entitles the individual to certain benefits once retired and also because employers, banks, schools and the USCIS all use the social security card as a form of identification. The Social Security system is linked to many other government and private and databases and services in a complex arrangement.
Note: Individuals who are not eligible to obtain a Social Security Number can apply for ITIN (Individual Taxpayer Identification Number).
information from, http://www.usimmigration.com/visa-h1b...
Also how many of these people are geting paid, under the table so to spead and never pay any income tax ?
Yes, there needs to be immigration and immigrant worker reform, badly !
December 15, 2009 at 4:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
YY4U
But, in your foreign travels, what is required, to travel to a foreign country ?
Do you believe that immigrating to any of those countries to live, is or would be as easy as just traveling and visiting those countries ?
And do you think that if, the U.S. immigration laws and border security were better and stronger and it was not so easy to enter the U.S., that an attack on and inside this country would have been as easy as it was and may still be ?
December 15, 2009 at 4:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
YY4U
The times and age we are now living and circunstances are much, much different than they were and have been in the past half century of your travels !
December 15, 2009 at 4:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
solong (anonymous) says...
Wow, things kind of got wild since I last looked. Martinez and be reasonable, there are people all over the world looking to better their families, so should we let them all in? Society has to have a sense of order as they do in Mexico and further south, I respect that. I would love to have some land in Mexico for a winter retreat but I cannot because their laws say I can't, therefore, I respect their laws. I am sure of another thing, the illegals are treated better here after breaking our laws than the Americans are treated in Mexico, the corruption in that country from top to bottom is well documented. I agree with goodoleboy, our society cannot tolerate the burden you place on us much longer, I hope common sense prevails and those of you who have violated our laws and try to take advantage of what we have built are sent home!
December 15, 2009 at 4:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
YY4U...... you may have had it easier buying a beer......
But try standing on a street corner in some of those countries and complain about the government the same way you, I & others do on this board.
Or get caught with a Bible in your possession in Saudi Arabia.
In some ways countries have less restrictions than we have.... in some ways more.
But I wouldn't trade the freedoms I have here for the freedoms in alot of countries....... including Russia, past OR present.
Beer really isn't that important to me - LOL ;-)
December 15, 2009 at 5:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
open-eyes
I do not know that the system didn't work in the beginning for the Sri Lanka lady. For all I know she had a current visa when she applied for and received the subsidized housing. In fact that was my understanding.....but I don't know it for certain. What I know for certain is that a routine "internal audit" revealed the visa to be expired and and the appropriate steps were taken to remedy the situation. As much as it may pain you to hear, it appears to me the system worked first, last, and middle.
December 15, 2009 at 5:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
So how do we end up with 20 million illegal immigrants in the country? SOMETHING isn't working........
December 15, 2009 at 5:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
open_eyes
As to your umbrage at my remark. At the time it was made YY4U (a religious skeptic) had posted a story that made perfect sense to me. One hour later seriouslyfolk's (a strong believer) post,....in its entirety.....said ....."so what's your point." Myself and 'enry (two known non-believers ) at almost the same time posted explanations to YY4U's post. I interpreting seriously's post to be very negative......counted heads and made my unfortunate post. Unfortunate because at exactly the same time seriously was clarifying his post showing it to be not as negative as I had thought. I immediately expressed my regret for the post I had made. It was an unfortunate incident of bad timing and misunderstanding and I gladly apologize to seriously for the incident. If you however wish to take it personally, even though you were not involved at all, feel free my friend....feel free!
December 15, 2009 at 5:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Wasn't it you that was also going to run the squatters out of your yard, at gunpoint if necessary? What if the law says they can stay?
December 15, 2009 at 5:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
No, biscuitboy, even though my post was several minutes later..... I hadn't refreshed my screen recently enough to see what transpired afterwards.
...... so I humbly apologize for my mistake.
December 15, 2009 at 5:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Remember, in my earlier post, methusla (anonymous) on December 15, 2009 at 2:20 p.m, my comment or question was,
My quandry and dilemma is, when the U.S.A. ( America ) has no more jobs available to be had by the citizens of this country and the job market of this country, can no longer sustain the countrys peoples, no matter whether those peoples are indigenous to the U.S.A. or have immigrated, " Legally or Illegally " to the U.S.A., then what will the solution be ?
Well here is some recent breaking news, " Joblessness is Here to Stay ", http://www.newsweek.com/id/226426?GT1...
I didn't realize my earlier statement or comment was " prophetic " so to speak !
And now what is to be done with those peoples, " Legal " and " Illegal " Immigrants, citizens " Legal and Illegal " and this countrys indigenous peoples, who may be out of work and jobless for, who knows how long ! What kind of a burden will this place on Public Assistance programs, not to mention the taxpayers, who may be fortunate to have a job ?
Still believe that this country isn' t in deep " DOO, DOO " !
December 15, 2009 at 6:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Feel like you can handle more bad news, well brace yourself, for this late breaking news .
Is your bank in trouble? More report bad loans
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34320344/...
More bank bailout in the future ?
December 15, 2009 at 6:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Really makes one have a " POSITIVE ' outlook doesn' t it !
December 15, 2009 at 6:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
One can hide behind a " POSITIVE " facade and dream of a dream world, but sooner or later reality and the real world will eventually catch up with you !
Sorry for going off topic and being " NEGATIVE " , but I thought a little reality of the real world was needed !
December 15, 2009 at 6:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
But that's fast heading towards worthlessness. Better have them pay you in gold. Or Chinese yuans. ;-)
December 15, 2009 at 10:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
You might want to read this before you make your decision, YY4U:
http://www.savingtoinvest.com/2008/05...
"US Dollar Outlook for 2010 as Central banks and Investors Dumping Greenback in Favor of Euros and Yen"
And we can be pretty sure that with the debt we're piling up..... and as fast as we're printing money...... inflation is down the road. Can't say I'm as confident as you are ;-)
December 16, 2009 at 12:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Hate to tell you this YY4U, but as of Dec. 15, 2009, the Chinese Yuan has dropped to, latest (Dec 15)
6.828, Yuan per 1 U.S. dollar !
Sorry ! The fact of the matter is, if the U.S. keeps trying to spend its way out of debt and printing money to try to do so ! It may not be long before it will take 10 U.S. dollars to buy 1 Chinese Yuan , etc.
December 16, 2009 at 8:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Oh, and if the current trend keeps the U.S. dollar may just not be worth using as heating fuel !
December 16, 2009 at 8:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
correction, Oh, and if the current trend keeps going, the U.S. dollar may just not be worth using as heating fuel !
December 16, 2009 at 8:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Things can always turn around, investors are speculating on what they know now, and they have no loyalty or pride to the US, just $$$. I would bank on this country getting it's act together, we are a pretty resilent bunch.
December 16, 2009 at 8:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Speculating and speculation is what got this country into this mess ! Now the train of thought is that, speculating and speculation is going to turn things around !
December 16, 2009 at 8:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
HenryVIII (anonymous) says...
YY4U.
"We don’t just throw rocks here. We have a tendency to throw some lead and fire into the mix as well."
Are you saying that's a good thing?
"Where else can you find men sitting around bragging about their wives ability to make a head shot on a target a mile away?"
I've never heard this... What kind of people do you hang out with?
I own a gun and I don't go around saying things like that or shooting at cops at riots...I'm not sure you're talking about REAL Americans...
'enry
December 16, 2009 at 1:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
YY4U
I don' t know who is giving you 3 U.S. dollars for one Euro, but you had better keep this fool a secret !
The current excange rate as to Euro per U.S. dollar is as follows, latest (Dec 16) 1.456 Euro for 1 U.S. Dollar, almost even, not quite ! http://www.x-rates.com/
December 16, 2009 at 1:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
HenryVIII (anonymous) says...
YY4U,
If you really know people who would kill a cop for fun, I strongly suggest you report them to the authorities before they are able to do such a thing. At the VERY least, they are in need of some serious counseling! Those aren't real Americans; they're terrorists in my opinion and should be considered enemies of the state.
'enry
December 16, 2009 at 4:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
It's hard to keep up with this thread. One minute it's about being against illegal activity then it's about people being racist if they are against that illegal activity and then it's about bashing Americans in general and now it's become a question of supporting the troops or not. I thought I could come up with some fanciful stories. Wow! Just wow.
Reggie
December 17, 2009 at 11:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
Yes, seriously, its getting confusing and hard to stay on topic isn' t it and I am as guilty as anyone for wandering about !
Guess, the tendency to wander comes with getting older !
December 17, 2009 at 11:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
seriouslyfolks
And the one that really got me, was the " shooting cops " thing ! Where did that come from ! As you say " WOW " !
December 17, 2009 at 11:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
seriously......get serious....its not about being against illegal activity......its about using pigeon English and racial stereotypes and slurs to support your opposition. If you can't see the difference then I guess there is no use in trying to explain it to you.
December 17, 2009 at 12:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
FarmRaised (anonymous) says...
Do you mean pidgin? I am not ranking on your spelling if you are, I just have never heard this term "pigeon English" before. But...I don't get out much.
Say what you will, but I think broken english is harder to learn and understand than english or spanish.
December 17, 2009 at 3:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
Yes....I meant pidgin English. My bad...but it doesn't change what I meant to say. Thank You for the correction...wouldn't want anyone to think I was illegal now would we!
December 17, 2009 at 4:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
FarmRaised (anonymous) says...
I honestly didn't know what you were talking about. I had to look it up; otherwise, I wouldn't have known it was pidgin. I had never heard it referred to like this, regardless of how it was spelled.
December 18, 2009 at 1:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
biscuitboy (anonymous) says...
FarmRaised......Thank you for the clarification. I get real touchy about people that are often pointing out the errors others make spelling....my attitude is as long as the meaning is clear.....deal with it. But apparently in this case the meaning was not clear so I apologize for jumping all testy.
December 18, 2009 at 5:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
YY4U
As of close today, the exchange rate for euro vs dollar, the quote was, one euro would get you 1.43448 USD ! And this was the quote on every monetary exchange I could find, even banks and stock market ticker ! So the dollar is still weak !
December 18, 2009 at 9:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Next thing you know morons will be crying for everyone to buy gold! All the gold they can afford! LOL!!
December 20, 2009 at 9:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )