Undemocratic tactics
Douglas B. McGaw, Emporia
Saturday, August 15, 2009
There may be some good reasons to oppose President Obama’s initiatives on healthcare, the economy or the environment, but you would not know that from the methods taken by the militant right-wing.
Instead of engaging in meaningful discussion of the issues, they have taken to the airwaves with tactics of disruption. There seems to be no attempt to argue the case intelligently.
The tactics include focusing on questions about Obama’s birth certificate (already firmly documented), even going to the extent of presenting amateurish forged “foreign” birth certificates as fact. They present lies about healthcare initiatives, such as claiming that the government plans to euthanize the elderly. They shout down opponents on their “news” casts in order to keep the opponents’ arguments from being heard. And now, stimulated by former congressman Dick Armey, funded by the insurance lobby and egged on by the likes of John Boehner, they are busing their minions to various town hall meetings.
This last is probably the most disturbing. In a democracy, everyone is supposed to have a chance to be heard. A town hall meeting is the essence of democracy. Yet, if the representative says something counter to what the rightwing fringe wants to hear, these tea party hooligans shout him or her down and don’t let anyone else be heard. They even shout down citizens who ask hard questions counter to their prejudices.
As a student of history, I see some parallels to this kind of obstructionism; the most notable and most recent of which occurred during the rise of Nazi Germany in the 1930s.
The party of “no” has nothing to add to the discussion, so instead they try to stifle any progress at all. As Tom Lehrer once said, “If you have nothing to say, the very least you can do is shut up.”
Douglas B. McGaw
Emporia
cyberspace (anonymous) says...
Well said, Doug. The tactics of those opposing reform defy logic and reason. If is undemocratic then it may also be unAmerican. I'll say it again. UnAmerican. We should expect more as a nation than hooligan, bullying tactics.
This issue is far too important!
August 15, 2009 at 1:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
Will Rogers said, everything is changing. People are taking their comedians seriously and the politicians as a joke. For more on what is happening in this country, go to ALEX JONES infowars.
August 15, 2009 at 1:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
Go to you tube Alex Jones Martial Law 911. THIS IS A WARNING, YOU MIGHT WANT TO FILTER SOME OF THIS OUT, BUT IT IS VERY INTERESTING.
August 15, 2009 at 1:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
admireed (anonymous) says...
Gosh, like a Republican trying to speak on an eastern college campus
August 15, 2009 at 2:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
On election night Ralph Nader asked, will Obama be an Uncle Tom to the big bankers. Go to YOU TUBE RALPH NADER. Nuff said.
August 15, 2009 at 2:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
Go to You Tube Alex Jones THE TWO PARTY DICTATORSHIP.
August 15, 2009 at 2:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jamesbordonaro (James Bordonaro) says...
I agree with Mr. McCaw that there are a very few, fringe individuals which are well funded by the insurance lobby intent on preventing any change to the current system. Unfortunately, these people would rather shout down their political opponents rather than offer solutions to the long term crisis in financing the existing Medicare and Medicaid systems. Additionally, several key figures within the Republican Party have advanced the notion of "death panels." Among these are former Gov. Sarah Palin and Sen. Chuck Grassley of Iowa. The Republican Party will not be able to return America to its fiscally conservative roots if these individuals and their ilk, e.g., Rep. Michele Bachman (MN) come to dominate their Party during the next election cycle.
I still believe the best proposal is the one I proposed during last year's congressional campaign of a very basic public option that most middle class citizens can buy into. It would be focused on wellness and prevention. Because it would offer minimal benefits, employers would still look to private insurance companies to provide additional benefits for their employees.
August 15, 2009 at 3:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Bryant (anonymous) says...
Funny...when the liberals were using the same type of tactics during their anti-war meetings.....they were considered patriots.
Liberal hypocracy.
August 15, 2009 at 4:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
historian1982 (Nick Gronseth) says...
WELL SAID BRYANT
August 15, 2009 at 4:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Bryant (anonymous) says...
Also, for someone who claims to be a historian, one would think that he would understand that America never has been a democracy. Its a representative republic...where the representatives go home on occassion and listen to their constituents yell at them.
I believe it is un-American to be so ignorant has to not know our form of government.
August 15, 2009 at 4:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dalelinn (Dale Linn) says...
YY4U, I suppose you're right. After eight years of George W., anyone should be ready for socialism. Can't for the life of me understand why anyone should object to taking taxpayer (borrowed) money & giving it to the big banks. Can't understand, for the life of me, why anyone would object to cap and trade when "little hitler" has told us that if it's passed, our energy rates would "skyrocket". Can't for the life of me understand why we would not turn over to the goverrnment the running of our banks, insurance companies, health care, and total power to run our lives. Can't for the life of me understand why I don't want our government telling me I can't drink a bottle of soda. Can't for the life of me figure out why we don't need a "little hitler" installing a tsar to run every facet of our lives. Let's just all be good little boys like Doug and YY4U want us to be and learn to goose step. They'll have the Acorn crowd there to make sure we behave. Dang that George W. for doing this to us. Oh, and Doug, do you want me to list some of the lies of "little Hitler". As a "student of history", I'm sure youve noticed some of them.
August 15, 2009 at 6:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Bryant (anonymous) says...
YY4U
How little you know. Americans have always distrusted government. Distrust in government is exactly why our founders believed in a small weak federal government. Distrusting and being paranoid about towards the government is older than the republic itself. Leave it to you liberals to blame Bush. It's Bush's fault that our founders believed in republicanism? Give me a break.
Let's face it....its you liberals and your socialist nanny state ideals which has destroyed our founders republican ideals.
Everything they believed in about the role of government, your like minds have distroyed.
Congrats.
August 15, 2009 at 6:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dalelinn (Dale Linn) says...
cyberspace, I also agree with you. I'll try to be a good little boy and not dissent. After all, that's unamerican. Never mind that old Revolution that was inspired by dissent. This is a new age and we should all be more American. Well said.
August 15, 2009 at 6:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Bryant (anonymous) says...
Check yoruself YY4U. An overwelming majority Americans do not want your Obama Care.
Why don't you voluntarily pay more in taxes? Why don't you be a good little liberaal pay 50% of your income in taxes to pay for all of these socialist nanny state crap. How many of Obama's appointees got into tax trouble? T
August 15, 2009 at 6:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dalelinn (Dale Linn) says...
YY4U, you're funny.
August 15, 2009 at 7:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justaflushaway (anonymous) says...
Once again, Dougie, you had to come out of the woodwork to show your stupidity. How you sleep at night I will never understand. And being a history expert, come on Dougie, you better study the Vietnam war first, seems like you . didn't understand it either. If I may use the word God, you probably don't believe it that either, BUT I would like to say GOD BLESS those GI"S that were in your unit.
Sleep well tonight Dougie as your president, will be protecting you. Your president will be , sorry , IS the ruin of the United States, all that every veteran died or fought for, he is just giving it away, you really need to study more, may I suggest "Muslims for Dummy's"
August 15, 2009 at 7:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justthefacts (anonymous) says...
Isn't it great to live in a country where in addition to free speech, we have great privilege of paying for our freedom through our taxes.
August 15, 2009 at 7:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
3rd party anyone?
August 15, 2009 at 8:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dalelinn (Dale Linn) says...
I would like to find, somewhere a health program that decides what kind of coverage I have by leaving it up to the grand wizard (or possibly a messiah, or a hitler?) and his appointed council. Does anyone possibly have any idea where I could find something like that? Now remember I don't want the doctor (or a hated insurance company) involved in any of the decision making. I just want to turn my health care over to a political panel to make all of my decisions for me. Oh, and I want just want to do it civilly, in a nice manner. Thank you.
August 15, 2009 at 8:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dalelinn (Dale Linn) says...
I'm still eyeballing those steak knives. Don't remove that offer just yet. I asked the guy at Braum's this evening if they could just wait for a stimulus payment (for my payment).
August 15, 2009 at 9 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dalelinn (Dale Linn) says...
YY4U. Thanks, but I've done my time. If the Obama care is passed, my time could be over before I'm ready. Does anyone care to explain exactly what my health care would be under Obamacare? Hmmmmmm.........could it be that the "deciding panel" hasn't met yet?
August 15, 2009 at 9:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dalelinn (Dale Linn) says...
YY4U, don't make fun of something that we don't know anything about yet. Nobody knows what our health care will be under the messiah. If you do, please tell me.
August 15, 2009 at 9:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dalelinn (Dale Linn) says...
My wife and I don't think that the AARP puts our country ahead of special interests so we belong to another group. I did go to the site, and of course it explains that one of the grand wizards (the messiah) and his panel will decide what our coverage will be.
August 15, 2009 at 9:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Bryant (anonymous) says...
YY4U is just like any other liberal.
Bitches and complains about the taxes he pays..expecting someone else to pick up the tab...then demands more socialism...which will raise additional taxes.
Of course YY4U loves Obama because he is such a good talker...which makes you no different than any other teen aged girl.
August 15, 2009 at 9:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dalelinn (Dale Linn) says...
My bad. What did it say about senility?
August 15, 2009 at 10:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
Europe is finding out that socialized health care is a disaster as well as there cap and trade. Guess what? They are building 24 new coal plants. Health care and cap and trade will destory the Kansas economy. Every cow will become a liability. We don"t need to build a wall around the border but, we do need one around the beltway. The top 500 corporations in the U.S. are making less money than in the great depression, when you adjust for inflation. Please tell me how were going to survive under all these government programs? These right wing militants are little old ladies and world war 2 and vietnam veterans for the most part. The liberals ought to review the constitution, I review it everyday, it is kind of like the bible, every time you read it, you discover something new. The people I talk to say, everything is getting more crazy everyday.
August 15, 2009 at 10:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
I am more concerned about the health care of the dollar. The government today is exponentially more powerful and invasive today than back in the great depression. There for, I expect the consequences to be worse. I do not think that we willbe able to dodge the bullet. The only reason the stock market has been going up, is the insider computer manipulations of Goldman Sacks. The last 20 years will godown as the Indian summer before the harsh winter. When the rest of the world discovers that the U.S. is broke, trillions of dollars will come back to the U.S. and this will cause interest rates to go to 20 per cent and the dollar will go into a free fall. The new health care program will destory our economic system as we now know it and the people are angry. The democrat in Kansas City, Dennis Moore is canceling his townhall meeting. Nuff said.
August 15, 2009 at 11:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson
August 16, 2009 at 6:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dalelinn (Dale Linn) says...
reddog, I completely agree with your last post, and Steve's too. YY4U talked about making health care cheaper. This does not appear to be in the grand wizard's plans. YY4U left out one of the main factors of health care expense, the fact that 1/10 of Mexican's population has decided to reside in the U.S. taking advantage of our health care, with the tacit approval of our federal government.
The deregulation of the banks is just one facet of our problems. It doesn't touch on:
1. moving our manufacturing out of the country
2. allowing 1/10 of the Mexican population to move into the U.S., overwhelming our infrastructure, medical care, education, etc. The 1/10 doesn't include other South American illegal immigration or legal immigration.
3. Out of control government spending.
4. The feds keeping the interest rates low, encouraging consumer spending , resulting in consumer indebtedness.
(all of these things, back to back, sure stretches the word "coincidence".)
Health care control is a major part of the grand wizard's assumption of power.
We have this grand wizard creating his own "tsars" to consolidate more control for his control. Learn to "goose step".
August 16, 2009 at 7:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Doug, you've done it again, stirred the pot to the point where we have such credible arguments as " YY4U, you're funny."
Brian Bordonaro, your idea of wellness policy doesn't cover existing conditions. You say, "...a very basic public option that most middle class citizens can buy into." What about everybody else? What about those who are employed but barely making it?
Your "very basic public option." Does it include catastrophic illness? Right now, even middle class folks with insurance coverage are going bankrupt because they can't even pay for whatever the insurance didn't cover. Doctors and hospitals are losing huge amounts of money.
What do you do when someone owes you money and can't pay? Sue? For what? You can't get blood out of a turnip.
And do you really believe that "employers would still look to private insurance companies to provide additional benefits for their employees"? Currently, many employers don't offer insurance at all. What about them? Many employers dump coverage as a matter of economics every day. Should they still have that option?
Sebelius says that small employers will be given tax breaks for participating in government plans. What about that idea?
Many complain that we should be able to have the same kind of insurance held by members of Congress. Surprise! That's one of the options. With premiums, of course. It's not free.
Doug McGaw is absolutely right when he speaks of the "tactics of disruption" being purposely used by the public at town hall meetings and by more famous members of the opposition. This entire health insurance scenario has become strictly partisan. What's democratic about that?
Did anyone see Randy at Obama's town hall meeting in Montana? He came wearing his NRA jacket and announced that he believed in the Constitution of the United States and was a proud member of the NRA. Obama said he too agreed with the second amendment then answered his question about health care calmly and politely. Later, Randy was interviewed by the press and said he was satisfied with the answer he was given by the president. But why the NRA tag? What has that got to do with health care?
Observation: What are you talking about? What McGaw means by the "militant right wing" is not that they are in the military. C'mon. Militant means "prepared to take aggressive action in support of a cause." Anybody can be militant. Disruptive people at meetings are militant.
Many people arguing against health reform are just plain selfish. They have insurance and they simply don't care if anyone else does.
Just in case anyone wants to read how frustrating it must be to answer a few questions in a sensible, rational and intelligent manner, here's a link. But I doubt it. When you can't find an answer, just bring up steak knives. That always seems to work.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090816/a...
August 16, 2009 at 8:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sail (anonymous) says...
The lines have been drawn deep, I cant wait for the next election.People are mad and awake. It should be fun to see the elected ##@@!@## squirm and slither for our votes!!
August 16, 2009 at 9:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dalelinn (Dale Linn) says...
create, the following post by YY4Uwas funny, "The tactic being used right now is to make the minority look like the majority by stifling every viewpoint except that of the far right. The overwhelming majority of Americans want health care reform and universal coverage. I have a great idea for all you right wing government program haters. Quit accepting your social security checks. Go ahead, you hate all those programs that the democrats imposed on us, send your Social Security checks back and live off your personal retirement savings. Betcha won't:-)"
Your own statements, "Doug McGaw is absolutely right when he speaks of the "tactics of disruption" being purposely used by the public at town hall meetings and by more famous members of the opposition. This entire health insurance scenario has become strictly partisan. What's democratic about that?" are funny, too. Your statement "Many people arguing against health reform are just plain selfish. They have insurance and they simply don't care if anyone else does.", is something I would have expected from the Obama supporter that said she would never have to worry again about paying her bills. The intonatioon was that Obama would do that for her. The thought of the government paying my bills frightens me. Evidently that's something you look forward to.
August 16, 2009 at 9:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...
Delay is preferable to error.
Thomas Jefferson
August 16, 2009 at 10:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
gabby (anonymous) says...
Last Thursday, Congressman Moran, had a town hall meeting in Cottonwood Falls, and I attented.
There were about 100 people there, and it was not an angry mob...There were many questions, and Rep. Moran answered every question with a clear, to the point, response.
About 2 weeks ago, Senator Brownback, held a "phone town hall" conference. I was part of it, and, it wasn't nearly as effective as the one in Cottonwood Falls.
I have a question for the FORUM....
...IF you could ask the President, or your representative in Congress ONE question...what would it be?..
Keep it short...and, you will have no follow up?...
I'll go first :-)........
Mr. President..We have seen video of you, in 2007, saying that you "believe in single payer insurance", and, your hope is, if you are elected President...that it would become a reality.. BUT, you said, single payer wouldn't happen immediately, it would be one step at a time...and would take approximately 10, 15, or 20 years to complete.
Are you saying that what you are proposing now, will not be government control, at first, but, eventually it will be?
Are you misleading us, or am I misunderstanding you?
August 16, 2009 at 10:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reddog (K. B. Thomas Jr.) says...
I thought that this new president was going to bring about positive change, it seems like loose change, and I have remorse, buyer remorse.
August 16, 2009 at 10:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dalelinn (Dale Linn) says...
gabby, I had the meeting in Cottonwood Falls on my calendar, but didn't make it. I also listened in to the Brownback telephone forum. I would add to Obama's statement about single payer health insurance. Lately Obama has said that he was never in favor of single payer insurance. It seems Observation misses things like that in favor of how many question marks you use. I would also question his reference to Karl Marx. He might take note that his little Hitler sidesteps references to the Constitution.
August 16, 2009 at 10:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
gabby (anonymous) says...
Observation....you're right...take out all, but one question mark...I would need to rephrase it.....How about at the end, I say....
I feel like I'm being mislead, Mr. President!!!! .... (there ya go! Observation)
thanks daleinn. :-)
August 16, 2009 at 11:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
alfalfa (anonymous) says...
I am a Republican, conservative, believe in God, hate communists, watch Fox news, have insurance, didn't vote for Obama, and I do not believe in the most advanced and civilized nation in the world you should have 47 million citizens who go to be each night without health insurance. Rather than whip the opposition into a frenzy, the GOP should come up with a better alternative.
I don't know how many more times I can stand fat Dick Morris on O'Reilly or Hannity whining around about how we are going to get rationed healthcare...we already have it. It is a national disgrace to have so many people without insurance, and it needs to be solved. It is much more important than a manned mission to Mars or TARP. If the Republicans don't want any reform they should clearly state it by saying "it is OK with us that so many are uninsured", or they should come up with a reform plan of their own and spend their time and energy selling it, rather than trying to make it look like the entire Republican party is made up of wealthy heartless , well the Gazette will censor the rest.
August 16, 2009 at 11:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ratdog (anonymous) says...
Give me frickin' break! The left wing wrote the book on busing people to political events. You think it is "undemocratic" when concerned citizens show up and voice their opinion while your SEIU brethern are the ones being bused in to stiffle the voices that disagree with you. That sir, is undemocratic!
August 16, 2009 at 11:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dalelinn (Dale Linn) says...
Sorry, observation, I missed that. alfalfa, I too am a registered republican. That's not something I'm proud of. On a national level, Kansas has some pretty good elected officials, and one or two on a more local level. Other than that, I can't say a lot good about either major party. I also wonder how much health care anyone will get under Obamacare. His bill says that what health care you get will be determined by him and his "panel". I also wonder if he will have any borrowed money left for health care after he gives it all to Goldman Sachs. Little Hitler already has advisors that believe in how much a person is "worth". Shooting from the hip, I will say that one of his advisors has stated that I, at my age is only worth about 14 teen-agers. Therefore I would be "down the line" in receiving health care. I suppose you're going to say I'm whining. Well, I'm not real happy about politicians deciding what health care I get. I feel I have a right to "whine". It is so comforting watching little Hitler consolidate the power around him. I can sleep tonight with little worry as we have him to watch over us.
August 16, 2009 at 1:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dalelinn (Dale Linn) says...
YY4U, I am not proud of being registered as a republican. It is almost as repugnant to me as if I was a registered democrat. I consider myself a conservative. That said, I am not against abortion under certain circumstances, am not against contraceptives, and I am not sure about stem cell research. Evidently we don't agree as to whether the religious right has taken over the republican party, either. At the same time, I don't think anyone should embrace a socialistic medicine. I believe I have already indicated that I don't want a politically appointed person, or elected grand wizard making medical decisions for me.
August 16, 2009 at 2:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Lie # 1: There are 47 million uninsured Americans or citizens:
According to the latest avaliable data, out of the 46 million uninsured (not 47) approx 10 million are not American citizens, part of them illegal immigrants.
So out of the THIRTY-SIX million "citizens" uninsured, 9 million of them make over $75,000/year.
Another 8 million make more than $50,000.
The Congressional Budget Office survey generating it included those who were uninsured for any part of a year, despite the fact that almost half of these remain uninsured for an average of only four months.
"As many as 14 million of the 45.7 million uninsured — poor and low-income Americans — are fully eligible for generous government assistance programs like Medicare, Medicaid, and SCHIP." But "they're just not enrolling in the programs."
Latest data is due out sometime this month, but those are the official figures. So let's concentrate on where the actual problems are, instead of manufacturing "fear" (sound familiar?). At the very least quit lying and saying 47 million "citizens"........
Sorry to repeat myself but links to the above data are in the Palin thread. As are links to Pelosi's video mentioned below.
Lie # 2: "Tactics of disruption" are not helpful and un-Patriotic. (Myth 2.5: Writer of this article is a "student of history").
An honest student of history would remember both sides of the coin, not just their favorite ones. And also not have so many huge glaring gaps in their timeline. A good student would remember that in Nancy Pelosi said, at an anti-war rally in 2006, that the moderator should let those chanting and yelling to continue to do so during a meeting. She stated that she was "a fan of disruptors", and praised them for their courage and patriotism...... slightly more recent than Nazi Germany.....
Anyway, since she's # 3 in line for the POTUS, and not a member of the CURRENT "party of No"..... how can anyone say she is wrong?
I wonder how many of those were bussed in? By what, at that time, was the "Party of No?" Probably the same buses that ACORN used to bring the drunks that they promised cigarettes to to vote in the last election.......
August 16, 2009 at 7:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Did someone ask for a truly conservative 3rd party?
"Oklahoma State Chairman of the Constitution Party, Thomas Holmes said, "The Democrats and Republicans have held hands while skipping down a primrose path past the horrors of the war in Iraq, the perils of the illegal invasion at home and the devastation of America’s economy. It’s long past time for Americans to say: ‘Enough is enough!’"
Holmes noted that, with the mounting disgust of both major parties, the climate is better now for a third party than at any time in the last 40 years.
"With the Democrats now free to push their socialist agenda, more and more Americans are realizing it is critical we return to the tried and true principles of constitutionally-based government; which both of the two ‘big box’ parties refuse to do. The Constitution Party stands alone as our best hope for restoring constitutional government."
As a follow up to his presidential campaign last year, Baldwin of Pensacola, Florida continues to travel the country and bring attention to the principal tenets of the party’s platform: ‘Life, Liberty, and Limited Government’. "
August 16, 2009 at 8:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dalelinn (Dale Linn) says...
observation, I hear you on the parties.
August 16, 2009 at 8:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dalelinn (Dale Linn) says...
......and I take your last post seriouslyfolks.
August 16, 2009 at 8:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dalelinn (Dale Linn) says...
Observation, It seems to me that for the last few presidential elections every vote for one of the two major party candidate was a vote that was thrown away. I don't think that my vote for Ron Paul was a vote thrown away. I voted for someone that would do their best to restore the Constitution of the United States. How many of the voters can say that. In the last election, every vote for McCain or Obama was a vote thrown away. Anyone who thinks differently can look at what we got. Nobody that will try to restore the Constitution, that's for sure. Mr. McGaw is someone who, from his editorial thinks very little of retaining our Constitution. He'll have to live with that.
August 16, 2009 at 9:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
http://www.ronpaul.com/2008-09-23/ron...
I didn't vote for Ron Paul but he did endorse the guy I voted for.
August 16, 2009 at 9:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
I will probably be sorry for getting in on this, comedians, writers session, but here goes.
People the down fall of the United States has been going on for almost the last 50 years now ! No single man, woman or political party can bear the soul blame for it, they all, every president, congressman and congresswoman, political party, along with all of the special interest groups and their hired corruptors, a.k.a. lobbys and lobbiests, are all to blame as well as each and every private American citizen for standing or sitting by and allowing it to happen ! What I am trying to say is, that there is plenty of blame to be shared by everyone !
Well, there is my comment, so start shooting !
August 16, 2009 at 10:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dalelinn (Dale Linn) says...
Well, old methusla, no arguement there from me, but the blame game has some correlation to a sitting juror. He is instructed to find a degree of fault. Also, I believe that I stated earlier that there ae five major contributing factors that have brought to our knees:
1. moving our manufacturing out of the country
2. allowing 1/10 of the Mexican population to move into the U.S., overwhelming our infrastructure, medical care, education, etc. The 1/10 doesn't include other South American illegal immigration or legal immigration.
3. Out of control government spending.
4. The feds keeping the interest rates low, encouraging consumer spending , resulting in consumer indebtedness.
5. deregulation of the banks
(all of these things, back to back, sure stretches the word "coincidence".)
At this time I would attribute a large percentage of the blame to Goldman Sachs. (This commedian is now out of ammo)
August 17, 2009 at 7:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dalelinn (Dale Linn) says...
Observation, all true, but if we don't look to see the source of our problems, it's hard to correct them. Goldman Sachs is a large owner of the Federal Reserve. Our congressmen are pretty much bought and paid for. Goldman Sachs is continuing the raping of our nation. It needs to stop. Control needs to be turned back to the people. Our president is not in complete control, irrespective with the fact that I don't agree with his agenda. The Federal Reserve needs to be abolished. That in itself opens a lot of questions. The beat goes on, and on, and on.
August 17, 2009 at 9:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justaflushaway (anonymous) says...
Dougie:
So, what do you have to say now about your president and your views of a 1 term idiot? seems like not a lot of people agree with you, as I read the posts, what do you thing Dougie.
August 17, 2009 at 1:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
I listened to the lady talking about her & her friends who showed up with a list of questions to ask at a townhall meeting. They were unorganized, milling around, not sure where they needed to go, someone pointed them to an area reserved by some tea party organizers. Then when they got there, some withing the group there brought out pro-Obama signs and chanting down with Rush and so forth.... they were members of ACORN, apparently they had organized and infiltrated the tea party group....... hmm..... shouting down people, organized......... study your history closer, Doug.
August 17, 2009 at 1:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Anyhoo, in response to Dougs original article:
Pelosi: "I'm a fan of disrupters"
http://lornakismet.wordpress.com/2009...
And some of the more "democratic tactics" by HCAN, (formerly ACORN), that Doug somehow missed...... from their mission statement, listed on
http://lornakismet.wordpress.com/2009...
2. .......Make sure you turn out a substantial number of people from your base and that everyone signs a sign in sheet upone entering the event.
3. Choose a venue that is difficult for the opposition to access without being noticed.
7. Collect signs and leaflets that are not provided by you or your organization. Another way to limit protestors’ ability to hijack your event is to confiscate signs or leaflets that they may bring into the venue from outside.......
8. Assign people to greet the media and to stay close to reporters both as they enter and leave the event.
Now, refresh my memory 'o student of history. Explain to me what is "undemocratic" again......... thx.....
August 17, 2009 at 2:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
dalelinn,in reading the above. so much is true but what I see is the overall affect our current head of state has been able to achieve, unUNITED! Yes, Meth was correct for this has been happening for years. We have been so busy trying to be "Big Brother" to everyone that our own nation is failing. We can't even protect our own borders!!! Yet, Canada and Mexico have very ridget ruling when entering their countries. Now, we are being asked "Let government control YOUR health", SORRY! but our government is so "split" they don't have the ABILITY, do I want them controlling my health? DON'T THINK SO!! How many pictures on the wall do we need? It is proven by Europe, Canada and other nations, what a POOR system a federally ran health system would be. I so agree with "Open_Eyes" on some of his points, if we started taking care of business at home (illegals) and quit giving on BOTH hands in so many areas we just might get our indebtiness down and not be living on "borrowed" time!!
Does it REALLY matter what party? I always thought we were called the "United States" meaning joining forces to make one. THAT is what our government should be concentrating on, NOT my health!!!
August 17, 2009 at 3:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
And the democrats have been just as guilty in the past on "birther" debates....
http://www.rr.com/news/news/article/1...
Student of History. Who didn't flunk.
August 17, 2009 at 3:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
gabby (anonymous) says...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-bY92...
Watch this video of Pres. Obama.....I think he answers our questions about what he wants for us.
August 17, 2009 at 5:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
evil_conservative (anonymous) says...
So now we are militant right-wing tea party hooligan Nazis.
The party of “no” has nothing to add to the discussion? Try looking up the Wyden-Bennett bill introduced in 2008.
Obstructionism? How about there is no provision in the Constitution for Congress to be providing Health Insurance to citizens, so it is therefore unconstitutional! The best plan is to undo what Congress has already done to screw up health care!
August 17, 2009 at 5:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
YY4U, You say "A black President", if my understanding is correct, he is not only black but also WHITE!!! I so wish some would quit saying "racism", for it is NOT what is his bloodline. If that was the case, every PAST president would be "unamerican"! If your ancestors were German, does that make you a "Nazi"?
August 17, 2009 at 5:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
I knew it!!!! YY4U is either Garafalo or Olbermann lurking on this board!!! (And everyone thought it was just a small-town/small-time forum.....) We've got the big brass from MSNBC keeping their eye on us! LOLOLOLOL
It is not the function of our Government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the Government from falling into error. - Robert H Jackson
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
August 17, 2009 at 5:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dalelinn (Dale Linn) says...
sandyman, You're right that we need to be as united as we can be. Of course everyone is not going to agree. The Goldman Sachs of the world love it when us unwashed argue among ourselves. I wish everyone would pull together to stand behind our Constitution and insist that our elected officials do that. The trouble today is that there is so much disinformation that keeps everyone pulling different directions. I do think Obama's socialistic government ideas will help pull people together against it. I hope so. Have a good evening.
YY4U, Where did this come from? "Sounds like a bunch of old white people who don't like it that America has a black president"
August 17, 2009 at 5:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
evil_conservative (anonymous) says...
Participating in a town hall meeting is one of the most democratic, American things a citizen can do.
August 17, 2009 at 5:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
And disrupting is even more patriotic. Nancy Pelosi said so herself.
August 17, 2009 at 5:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
Dear Dale, Yes, to be "united" would be great but if being "united" is brought about by socialistic governement is that being "united" or controlled?
You also have a super evening and tell your wife "hello" for me.
August 17, 2009 at 5:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dalelinn (Dale Linn) says...
Socialism is a very distinct form of control. Most Americans would rebel.
August 17, 2009 at 5:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Bears repeating, yet once again....
http://www.wimp.com/thegovernment/
August 17, 2009 at 5:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justthefacts (anonymous) says...
"Four legs good....Two legs better"
August 17, 2009 at 6:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
"Defense Spending would be great stimulus"
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB12300...
Just FYI
Just curious - where do the black protestors fall in your view?
August 17, 2009 at 6:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
YY4U, sorry to be the one to inform you, BUT nothing is free! Someone pays along the way!!! Also, please stop this "because we have a black president" junk. To me it is like saying "because he is "left" or "right" handed, which we ALL know has nothing to do with the situation but going to the "cause", now that does!!!! Are you that willing to give up rights and let government dictate to you concerning your health? As I've stated before, I have seen this in action and believe me "socialized" medicine DOESN'T work!!! if you are on the bottom of the totem pole, heaven help you, for now the government says who,what, when and where!!!
August 17, 2009 at 8:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dalelinn (Dale Linn) says...
YY4U, I think an awful lot of us had health care in the military. If you think Obamacare would be the same thing, I would put you in the same class as the people that think somehow we will be miraculously (Obama style?) pulled out of this recession that will go into a depression (my opinion). Anyway, why am I talking to a crazy liberal?
August 17, 2009 at 8:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
YY4U, now that we agree concerning!!!! Good Job!!!! "What a boring world it would be for Johnny to play in if we all agreed!!!
August 17, 2009 at 9:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
YY4U, but lots of people don't think he's even Hawaiian - LOL.
Personally I don't like someone who smokes telling me how to run my health care :)
I'd make a crack (pun intended) here about how the White House hasn't banned smoking inside its walls, but then we-know-who will jump in........
All....... I beg forgiveness ahead of time......
August 17, 2009 at 9:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dalelinn (Dale Linn) says...
YY4U, you might be right about the recent third parties, but I have noticed that people look for an excuse to call a third party "out in left field". From where I sit, left field (no correlation) looks a lot better than the infield. I hate to do it, but I agree with your last post.
August 17, 2009 at 9:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Bryant (anonymous) says...
BS.
I grew up in military health care. When I was 11, I came down with something and they sent me to a civilian hospital.
nough said.
August 17, 2009 at 10:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justthefacts (anonymous) says...
Best plan is to make insurance company execs be subjected to the same red tape and ER room antics that the rest of us deal with. Let them be told to go home after a major surgery because their policy just ran out. That would result in CHANGE we all could live with.
August 17, 2009 at 10:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
open_eyes, do you mean I can go to the White House and "light up"? (Smoking that is!!) Yippee!!!!!
justthefacts, Yes, it is very scary to think who truly calls the shots concerning ones hospital care, especially after what we pay to be "insured".Are you aware that currently they are trying to say that after a woman has a mastectomy or total one, they are to go home the day after surgery? I have friends that have had this surgery and from what I understand, it "ain't" fun!!! I can't imagine being sent home the next day. What has caused this? GREED???
August 18, 2009 at 1:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
So would you agree that bringing guns to protest is a responsible and democratic tactic?
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/...
I am againist any kind of gun control, I own many firearms, but bluntly put, this is one of the dumbest things I have seen in the news this year, and it is idiots like this that will end up costing responsible gun owners more freedoms.
August 18, 2009 at 7:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jibberish66 (anonymous) says...
• I'm sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and disagree with this administration, somehow you're not patriotic. We need to stand up and say we're Americans, and we have the right to debate and disagree with any administration.
---Hillary Clinton
August 18, 2009 at 7:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jibberish66 (anonymous) says...
Obama is not Hitler, and neither was George W. Bush. STOP calling people Hitler! Until citizens are rounded and exterminated in internment camps or shot on the streets, Hitler is still dead. Geez!
August 18, 2009 at 8:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
gabby (anonymous) says...
sandman.. they are treating masectomy's as out patient surgery in some hospitals...as well, as many other surgery's that used to require longer stays. There could be a lot of reasons for that...both good and bad. Maybe someone with medical background could explain that.
I am totally against government controlled..single pay...health care....and, one way or another we are heading there. Medicare for everyone? Medicare needs supplemental insurance now..and is running out of money now.
The public option will end up single pay..government controlled...that's what Obama wants...and he will get it..even if it means "starting" with the public option.
If anyone doubts what I am saying...watch this video...Obama says he wants single pay, .and, it will start with public option...and over a period of a few years will end up single pay....(because public option will fail, and government will take control!)....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-bY92...
August 18, 2009 at 8:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
"the part where you didn't get a bill and the military paid for it all. "
LOL
As if the military generates it's own income to pay for anything. lol
Good one.
August 18, 2009 at 9:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
goodoleboy, Yes, as you, I'm totally against gun control for we have that "right" to bare arms!!! I also question how in the world did they EVER get that close to our current president? Could it be a "set-up" to stirs things up in that area? (placed?) Our nation is so "divided" at this time that it brings the "ole" military tatic to mind "Devide and conquer".
jibberish66, yes, we have the "right" (currently) to debate for thru debate, we learn and SHOULD build a stronger foundation. Common sense enters here and that is what I truly question, our ability in that area.
Yes, gabby, as you, I am TOTALLY against "one pay" system. We ALREADY have allowed the government to be in our lives much more then they should be, when does this stop? Hasn't it been proven by our national indebtiness that they just don't have the ability? Are we spreading ourselves so thin that we are now unable to use correct judgement?
August 18, 2009 at 9:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
gabby (anonymous) says...
I read an article this morning..that Obama and his cronies are going "all out" on advertising, to support his Health Care plan...Obama wants single pay...but, our former Governor, says that the public option, isn't off the table....Downplaying it, as a backpeddle for the President...
But, Obama may look at it as a "beginning" to government controlled health plan...It will just take a little longer. Either way..the public option will eventually be single pay...aka..government controlled health insurance.
August 18, 2009 at 9:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
"Hasn't it been proven by our national indebtedness that they just don't have the ability? Are we spreading ourselves so thin that we are now unable to use correct judgment?"
Great questions! If Social Security is in trouble and it is only for a segment of society as is Medicare, why should we trust them to handle something that is much larger? I honestly think it could be done(not that I want it because I don't), but not if they handle it like they've handled things thus far.
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/...
http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/29/news/...
August 18, 2009 at 10:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
The gunman has been all over talk radio this morning on the way to work. I agree, as they do, that if he truly isn't a "plant", then he is someone that lacks common sense. It will be interesting to see how the media treats it going forward......and..... telling. Within a week, I knew all about Joe the Plumber. His employment history, his political beliefs, his family, his childhood/upbringing/education, etc..... I think this loon deserves every bit of the same scrutiny. Joe was "exercising" his First Amendment right, this guy was exercising his Second. If we DON'T get the same scrutiny on his background......... then something will smell rotten. And not just in Denmark.
Just saying.
August 18, 2009 at 10:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justaflushaway (anonymous) says...
justthefacts:
you said,
"the part where you didn't get a bill and the military paid for it all. "
LOL
As if the military generates it's own income to pay for anything. lol
Good one.
lets say that you ARE a Veteran of the United States military, for example, you break your leg, on a Saturday, there is a good chance that the VA will send you to a civilian hospital near the VA center that you went to. The Hospital will send you, the Veteran the bills, you then will take the bill to the FEE BASIC dept at the VA, there it will lay on the dept desks for up to 60-90 days, all this time you will be hammered by bill collectors. The VA then will pay the hospital that fixed the leg, 1/2 or less of the original bill, and the case is closed!. they, the hospital calls off the bill collectors, ALL IS WELL
I KNOW THAT NOW i WILL BE CATCHING HELL FOR HOW THE VA WORKS or HOW SOMEONE HAS HAD A BAD EXPERIENCE AT THE VA... save it maybe it was your attitude when you went there. The VA medical centers has saved my life more than once,
Maybe Dougie can tell you how it really works since he is a expert of everything.
August 18, 2009 at 10:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
open_eyes, will be interesting to see what they "uncover". First, if he WASN'T a plant then this truly doesn't say much for our"inland security"!!! I wouldn't want them protecting me! Stand a much better chance on my own and I'm a lousy shot!! Second, as we all know, things can be "covered up" or changed to fit the situation. Third, if a plant, why not use a "whitey"-from the news clip I just saw, he was black. Is that to disprove "racism"? race against race? So much just doesn't "add" up!!!! Also, concerning "inland security"- a high power rifle? Wow!!! Don't think I could sneak that in my purse!!!
August 18, 2009 at 11:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Well, like I said, he's an idiot either way. I'm just expecting him to get the same scrutiny that Joe the Plumber got. I can't believe anyone openly displaying a firearm (even though it was legal) wasn't surrounded by security anywhere within a mile of the President. The whole thing just smells fishy and stupid. Regardless of which side he is on.
I did see an interview of someone at the Specter townhall meeting. He said he saw one bus pull up, but it got there too late for anyone to be admitted. Which begs the question of Doug: You claim the people are bussed in and have organizations behind them - where's your proof? Did you personally witness or have evidence to back up your claim? I'm sure there are some, but you're stereotyping alot of people here - any proof or are you just repeating what some left-wing website told you to say (and how to think)?
August 18, 2009 at 12:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Info on who is behind many of the health-care ads out there.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/1...
Gee.... some on both sides..... imagine that.... does that mean only the organized ones on the right are Nazi's? What are those on the other side? Huns? :)
August 18, 2009 at 3:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Either way, if something is not done soon, costs will be out of control:
"The Milliman Medical Index stood at $8,414 in 2001. It had risen to $16,700 by 2009. It is likely to rise to $18,000 by next year. That is more than a doubling of costs in the span of a decade"
And people thought the oil companies rip people off.
August 18, 2009 at 3:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
YY4U, and Yes, who pays for that insurance for cars? The government??????
August 18, 2009 at 6:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Abortion is legal, that is a good indicator of how much we care about our kids.
August 18, 2009 at 8:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
YY4U, I truly understand WHAT you are saying and I also understand having a family and at times the frustration of trying to make "ends" meet with taking care of our "own". Somehow we as a nation have gotten "off" track and are trying to be EVERYTHING to EVERYONE. Where does our personal responsibility enter the picture? How much more can we as a nation absorb when the money "ain't there"!
You spoke of abortion and that I won't get into concerning, pro or con for each of us have our own feelings, right or wrong. What I will discuss concerning the "freebies", not only health care but it always amazed me when I would go register our children for school, book fees, lunch fees etc. How many in reality I was paying for. Now, don't take me wrong, yes, at times it is needed but how many adults that brought these children into the world are now expecting society to take the burden of educating them. Just how many "freebies" are we (society) responsible to absorb? We no longer can do it!!!! It is way past time to admit to what we have done and be responsible for our own. It is proven, the more "hand outs" the more it WILL be taken. Enough said, now wait for the "backfire".
August 18, 2009 at 9:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandman (anonymous) says...
YY4U, Thank you for understanding. It is not only our nation but locally. How many businesses have had to "write-off" a debt because they KNOW they will never receive payment? Who will cover that loss? You and me! Therefore rising the cost to cover those that are "written-off".
It has been proven over and over that we need to start making people MORE accountable. How do we do this? Rules and regulations stronger? Now some will say "not in my back yard" We MUST start somewhere!!! Handing out MORE just doesn't do it!!!
Now, I'm not only speaking of the individual but where ever state aid/federal aid is given. Believe that is called "tighten ones belt!"
August 18, 2009 at 10:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
glarson (anonymous) says...
Moved to a forum:
http://www.emporiagazette.com/forums/...
August 19, 2009 at 6:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )