reddog (anonymous) says...

all this is going to do is prolong the day of wreaking. milton friedman the famous economist said, when are people going to realize that there is no free lunch. many people are concerned about the future liberty in the united states. if there is not a dramatic shift, the freedoms that we take for granted will be completly dismanantled in our lifetime. we need to get our guard up and go against the leftist elites who wish to undermine freedom and reorganize our republic into bureaucratic despotism.

August 5, 2009 at 12:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

I wonder how many people are going into deeper more unnecessary debt in order to make up the difference between the trade in and the value of the new more expensive car. That's not to mention the bigger debt the government is getting into by giving away this "free" money. It seems to me that most of the problems with the economy are because of debt and the inability or unwillingness to pay it off. When will we learn?

August 5, 2009 at 1:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

kcfan (anonymous) says...

I guess this tells car manufactures a lot...if you would have just lower your already inflated car prices, you could of saved yourself and the whole country this nightmare

August 5, 2009 at 1:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

emporialifer (anonymous) says...

Think about it: spending $1 billion dollars in less than a week. Only the U.S. Government could spend that much money that quickly. Actually I'm sure they could spend much more money even quicker, but I shudder at the thought.

Oh wait, that is actually OUR money they are spending. I keep forgetting I pay taxes, so the government can so wisely spend my money. Thank goodness the government understands that I am a complete moron and not capable of spending my own money, so they take it from me and spend it for me. Oh wait, I didn't buy a different car, so I guess they spent it for me on someone else. Gosh, I'm so generous and didn't even realize it! In that case, shouldn't my taxes be considered charitable contributions?!

August 5, 2009 at 4:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

alfalfa (anonymous) says...

Last night on KWCH they said about $660 million of new cars had been sold????? And the program has cost $1 billion. Makes alot of sense. Two different car dealers also said they expected a number of the new cars sold would be repos in 6 months to a year.

August 5, 2009 at 10:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...

alfalfa:
That sounds a lot like some numbers another poster put up about the social healthcare thing.....they were going to take in $100 each from 1 million citizens and the number magically turned into a trillion instead of the billion that it would actually total...unless I'm the one with the math error, but I asked for corrections and no one ever gave any.
Financial optimism from the government is scary.

August 5, 2009 at 10:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

reddog (anonymous) says...

i was watching glen beck on a utube video and he said, be careful about cash for clunkers because when you click cars.gov you agree that the government can take over your computer forever. no wonder they are spending a billion dollars to give away 700 million. now it all makes sense. can you believe this? please someone tell me this is not true.

August 6, 2009 at 12:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

reddog (anonymous) says...

thanks for the constitutional watch dogs. do not go to cars.gov unless you want your computer to be the property of the u s government and all your information and what you view will be tracked forever. is this the new world order that george bush used to talk about. most of the time nothing good happens when government steps into the equation. i think our government has grown indifferent and even hostile to liberty itself. join the tea party organization.

August 6, 2009 at 12:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

rabblerouser (anonymous) says...

I have heard that some of the people who are driving these clunkers and trading them in do not have perfect credit and are paying upwards of 20% interest! THE CREDIT COMPANIES AND BANKS WIN AGAIN!!

Also, some of these folks won't be able to make the payments.

A whole new opportunity for the REPO community! And a new course for the trade schools. Become a REPO agent training!

August 6, 2009 at 5:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

LIFE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. AND a new car, your mortgage payements, food stamps, free education and medical care.

Wev'e come a long way baby!

August 6, 2009 at 6:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

I'm just curious..... has anyone figured up which is really "greener" for the environment? Taking perfectly usable vehicles off the highway and totally scrapping them out.... and adding in all the metal, manufacturing, etc that goes into building a new vehicle....... seems to me like the cash for clunkers program is gonna raise the ocean levels by at least 10 feet..... lol

August 6, 2009 at 7:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

biscuitboy (anonymous) says...

for the record...I also think this cash for clunkers program was wasted money and horribly misguided. That probably comes as a big surprise to many of you.

But click on cars/government and the horrible government of the United states of America will control your computer foreever......Geez.....who dreams up all this crap. Does the word paranoid mean anything to you.

August 6, 2009 at 7:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

biscuitboy (anonymous) says...

Do you really think if the government wanted to control our computers they would have to spend a billion dollars to trick us into it. If they want to control our computers they already do.

Thanks to Dubya they already control our telephones and we didn't even have to call anybody. Glen Beck should be in a home somewhere.

August 6, 2009 at 8:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

justaflushaway (anonymous) says...

observation, you are a idiot, enough said.

August 6, 2009 at 8:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

biscuitboy (anonymous) says...

open_eyes....most of that scrapped out metal will be the metal that builds the new ones.

August 6, 2009 at 8:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

biscuitboy (anonymous) says...

observation is not an idiot....he's in the used car business.

August 6, 2009 at 8:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

But my point is........ it takes work (energy, thus more greenhouse gas) to scrap out a vehicle & build a new one. Sure, its gotta be done sooner or later...... but if the vehicle is already built, and if it still has plenty of life left in it...... then aren't we accelerating the production pace (and thus expending more energy)? But then again.... since the government runs the car industry now, and I'm sure had many concessions to make to the auto workers.... maybe soon we'll have a new law that any car over 5 years old must be scrapped and replaced with a new one - LOL.
Yes, people are losing their jobs, falling behind on their mortgage payments, etc...... but by golly lets go buy a new car :). When will we start hearing about the "new car bubble", once everyone discovers that their monthly auto payments don't fit in the budget quite as nicely as their old clunker that was paid for did?

Besides, Rosie told me you can't melt steel, so I don't see how we will ever re-use the clunkers :)

August 6, 2009 at 8:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

truelovecharlie (anonymous) says...

The ones that will benefit the most from the cash for clunker's are the dealers and the salvage yards. This has been a gold mine handed to the salvage yards. Additionally; those trading do less haggling on price because they are so happy for the $3500-4500 so the net profits to the dealers are better than ever. Every time the government has a solution, it ALWAYS bites us in the backside down the road. Noboma is simply cinching his re-election early with all these programs and money give-aways!

August 6, 2009 at 10:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

Posted by oh4theluvof (anonymous) on August 5, 2009 at 10:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

alfalfa:
That sounds a lot like some numbers another poster put up about the social healthcare thing.....they were going to take in $100 each from 1 million citizens and the number magically turned into a trillion instead of the billion that it would actually total...unless I'm the one with the math error, but I asked for corrections and no one ever gave any.
Financial optimism from the government is scary.

oh4theluvof,
Here's my original statement:

If only 100 million were old enough to work, and actually had a job, and they paid $100 a month for health care, it would generate one trillion, 200 billion $ per year. Now, that's a lot of ...

Please compare that to what you accused me of saying. That's ONE HUNDRED million, not ONE million.

Now, sit down and multiply 100,000,000 times $100 per month. PER MONTH. What do you get? Now multiply that by 12 months.

I'll come back later for your answer.

August 6, 2009 at 10:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

Will Sarah Palin be blamed for the "new car bubble" bursting?
That will be some good times.
I wish the government would stop encouraging us to spend money like they do because when either we or they spend money it's ours not theirs. I don't know about any of you but my cash flow is quickly becoming just a trickle.

August 6, 2009 at 11:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

biscuitboy (anonymous) says...

open_eyes....the points you and others are giving are some of the reasons i also oppossed this program. I mainly got on here to challange a couple of claims I consider ludicrous.

I don't know who Rosie is...but steel is routinely recycled and in fact is melted to a small degree every time it is welded.

August 6, 2009 at 12:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

Rosie O'Donnell.... 9/11 conspiracy theory..... inside job by Bush.... heat from the jet fuel/fire couldn't have possibly melted the steel......

(PS - I own a welder myself, I'm quite aware of that, thanks - the sarcasm was aimed at the Rosie's of the world.... :)

August 6, 2009 at 12:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

The Rosie inside job by Bush conspiracy theorists are to the left what the birthers are to the right. The birthers get a lot of media attention probably because they make the right look bad while the "heat doesn't melt metal" "Bush flew the planes into the twin towers personally" "Bush caused Hurricane Katrina" conspiracy theorists got only minimal coverage by the media probably because it would make the left look bad. This is of course my conspiracy theory. LOL

August 6, 2009 at 12:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...

create:
I still got the same answer I got before which is a number in the billions, not trillions. Here's my math for checking, but please note that this is the third time I have asked for math corrections if I am wrong.
100,000,000 (one hundred million) x 100 = 10,000,000,000 (ten billion) x 12 = 120,000,000,000 (one hundred and twenty billion)
It is possible I have consistently dropped a zero somewhere, but I don't have my original worksheet to compare..only the one I've done today.

By your snotty tone, I would deduce that you are offended at me for challenging you on this, but I was not under the impression that these were your numbers, but those of agenda pushing lobbyists. If I am incorrect, I apologize for being less than diplomatic in my challenge.

August 6, 2009 at 1:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

biscuitboy (anonymous) says...

seriouslyfolks....you are absolutely right about the birther and the bush planned 9-11 wingnuts being flip sides of the same coin. I differ with you a little however about why the birthers are getting more attention. One reason now is that the birther conspiracy advocates are more topical.....after all Obama is now the setting president...not Bush. That makes the 9/11 conspiracy nuts kind off a moot point now.

I heard somebody else last night speak on another possible reason. The left's wingnuts never held any real power...or got any respect.....from the mainstream democrats. Wheras the right wingnuts almost seem at times to be mainstream republicans. That someone else however was Olbermann.....

August 6, 2009 at 4:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

I agree with you biscuitboy up to the point where you say the left's wingnuts never held any real power or respect. Gotta respectfully disagree there. Of course, it all depends on where we draw the line of "wingnut" - :)

August 6, 2009 at 5:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

I was aying that the left wing nuts in their day didn't get the "air time" that the right wing nuts do now. The way I see it the reason is that the media is left leaning and would rather sweep the left wing nuts under the rug and exopse the right wing nuts. Many will say that this is just a conspiracy theory in and of itself but I truly feel that there is a left wing bias in the media.

ps
cash for clunkers is stupid

August 6, 2009 at 5:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

04theluvof,

You're absolutely right on your math, it is 120 billion. I was wrong. But in your original post, you said I said "$100 each from 1 million citizens" so that too was incorrect and put me on my high horse because I did not say that.

Nonetheless, it's still a lot of money.

August 6, 2009 at 5:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Weltha (anonymous) says...

hundred typo??

August 6, 2009 at 6:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

biscuitboy (anonymous) says...

seriously.....I wouldn't call it a conspiracy theory but I am always amussed at how two people can look at the same thing and have it look so much different.

You see the left leaning media overplaying the birthers because it is trying to make republicans look foolish. I see the media giving far more credence to a foolish story that it actually deserves just to keep stirring the pot. I feel the same way about all the coverage the media is giving to these so called average middle class citizens that seem to think shouting speakers down is some type of legitimate dialogue.

I saw the media fall all over itself in adoration of Dubya for much of his first term.....before largly turning against him after we found no WMD's. I now see them giving a disorganized and very antagonistic republican party much more attention than its just try to disrupt everything platform at the moment deserves. And this started well before the end of Obama's first hundred days.

I'm sure you see much of this differently yet we are both looking at the same media.....Go figure>

August 6, 2009 at 7:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

Yeah the media gave Bush some kudos simply because he was pres and everybody was very patriotic after 9/11 it would have been that way no matter who was pres. That doesn't really disprove their left leaningness(is that a word? I think I heard Bush say it a couple of times anyway.) It's crazy how far we've come in such a short time since 9/11. Everybody was so patriotic then and now everything we do sucks and needs to be changed. What a bunch of fickle cry babies we are. How we got this far I'll never know? Well maybe someday but I don't think I'll care then.

August 6, 2009 at 7:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

goodoleboy (anonymous) says...

I looked at the top 5 cars traded in, they had a 15.8 miles per gallon average

The cars purchased? 25.3 miles-per-gallon, for a whopping 60 percent improvement.

Then lets consider who made out here:

"Detroit-based GM sold 18.7 percent of the cars purchased under the plan. Toyota Motor Corp., based in Toyota City, Japan, had the second-most sales with 17.9 percent and Dearborn, Michigan-based Ford Motor Co., was third with 16 percent. The agency released data on the each automakers’ share today, a day after providing a list showing that four of the top five models sold were made by foreign automakers. "

So lets see, GM and Ford making out well..... more fuel efficient vehicles on the road, reducing our heroin addiction to oil... and the added bonus that these sales add to the economy.

There is some very wasteful going on, and in much larger numbers than this program. Logically speaking I believe the positives outweigh the negatives with this program and that what will be gained long term will off set what is lost now.

August 6, 2009 at 7:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

goodoleboy (anonymous) says...

To quote O'Rielly regarding birthers:

"your acting stupidly, time to move on"

August 6, 2009 at 7:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

I heard a good one tonight on the radio.

Host asked his guest what he thought about cash for clunkers.

The guest replied:

"I'm against pay raises for Congress"

LOLOLOLOLOL

August 6, 2009 at 9:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

MrCmonkeeDo (anonymous) says...

Hmmm. Wonder how many peeps get to keep their jobs because of the Clunkers program? How many businesses will get to keep their doors open and how many investors will keep their money invested: even if it is, just for a while longer? How many pairs of shoes will be sold or bread n butter?

Seems like Conservatives would marvel at the brilliance of this program if G.W. had proposed it; while Liberals most assuredly would have despised it. It is in fact so Republican an idea that it makes us Libs nervous as-all-git-out when the Cons start badmouthing the idea. One thing is for sure though, if you ain't got a job an' the Clunkers program puts you back to work you won't care who thought it up.

Life is funny like that.

August 7, 2009 at 1:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

biscuitboy (anonymous) says...

MrCmonkeeDo

Where have you been...[none of my business].....but I enjoy your post as much anybodys on here.....and if burdened with having to pick the most thoughful and intelligent poster on here it would be between you and one other. The other is quite to the right.....you are more to the left. I am more left which is why I have missed your post. Good to hear from you.

August 7, 2009 at 4:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

biscuitboy (anonymous) says...

open_eyes......Sorry for missing the sarcasm in your Rosie post......didn't realize who you were refering to. Plus when I read the post I was taken aback. I thought.....Huh...open_eyes is smarter than that. Sorry!

August 7, 2009 at 6:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

LOL biscuitboy, no problemo :). I think I missed (upon re-reading) where you stated it was Olbermann that made the remarks about far-left vs far-right, so I owed you one - LOL

I wonder..... (idle thought).... I mentioned a "new car bubble"........ so, let's say, over time, the number of people who are trading in their "clunkers" for a new car, or slightly used, averages out somewhat, and (despite some ups and downs due to economy, unemployment, etc)... the dealers see a more or less steady business........ so now that everyone is rushing to upgrade.... a year from now, will the car companies all see a huge drop in the number of new car orders? Say, over the next 3 years, X number of people were going to be trading in/retiring their clunkers anyway.... and the majority of that number have all rushed to do it this summer. So 3 years from now, the number is all the same - only difference is, the gov took alot of money from you & I & gave to these people to rush & buy it now.
Not sure this scenario carries water, again, just an idle thought crossing my mind when I mentioned the "new car bubble"........

August 7, 2009 at 8:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

The problem is this is all fake and will soon disapear like a rank vapor wafting from Taco Bell. Yes it's doing some good now which is well .... good. But how many people rushing out to buy new cars can actually afford to pay for them? How many of them will skip being new shoes for the kids to pay for their new ride until they can't pay anymore? Just cuz your guy came up with it doesn't make it perfect. You have to think about the consequences. For the record when Bush did the tax cuts I thought it was stupid not because I hate the rich and it was a a "tax cut for the rich" but simply because it seems rather irresponsible to lower your intake when your spending isn't under control. I guess it's too much to ask that our government control their spending since they encourage us not to.

Sorry great grand kids, I didn't really want to spend your hard earned money but I had no choice. sad sad sad

August 7, 2009 at 8:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

I don't really see all the free government money giveaways as the type of thing typically done by the GOP or GW (except in the form of tax cuts, perhaps) but I guess anything is possible, he certainly turned away from conservative principles towards the end of his term. I still would not have marvelled at the brilliance of it. Quite the opposite.

August 7, 2009 at 9:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...

create:
I am sorry it's taken me so long to get back. You are absolutely correct that I didn't type two zeros and I believe that did make it look suspicious. In my defense, I did go back and find the original post because I wanted to be very careful to quote correctly, but by the time I found it, I had two children and a clock conspiring against me and I was trying, to little avail, to keep my thoughts straight and take care of life (much like right at this moment). I'm afraid I will be MIA here for the most part for awhile, as I found when I took a five day hiatus that life went a bit smoother and since it's preparing to spin out of control again, I need to cut out some extras. Hope to see you all again as the weather turns colder and the to-do list requires more at-home time.

August 7, 2009 at 10:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

As far as lowering fuel consumption and all that goes it seems to me that public transportation is the way to go if you're not too old and/or too fat to ride a bike. There are also other benefits to public transportation that I wasn't aware of till I read the article in the link. Thanks YY4U for reminding me of this great news source.

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/...

August 7, 2009 at 10:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

goodoleboy (anonymous) says...

Open eyes,

I would wager that people will continue to trade in and buy mroe fuel efficient cars in the coming years, high gas prices will return(they are already creeping back). People that do not really need that large truck or SUV are going to get rid of it. Last year during the summer sales of the same vehicles that are in top 5 now for the clunkers program were in high demand due to high fuel prices, and those prices will return as the economy does.

August 7, 2009 at 11:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

seriouslyfolks,

On your link to above to the onion, check out the "Slate" article on the apocolypse of America. It list 144 possible scenerios of the demise of America. Scary how the last twenty or so seem to be happening now.

August 7, 2009 at 11:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

That's my point, goodoleboy. People are and will continually be trading in vehicles. And for more fuel-efficient ones, (obviously, that will be all that is available, for the most part). My question was whats the difference between (example) 33 cars per year being traded in for the next 3 years at a particular dealer, or 97 cars right now and then 1 per year for the next 2 years (99 total in both cases). Difference is (other than jobs scenario described above) - you & I helped finance the 97 with our taxes. Don't know about you but I'm going to demand some free taxi service from some of these people who took advantage of the clunkers. After all, I helped them purchase it........ :)

August 7, 2009 at 1:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

goodoleboy (anonymous) says...

The difference is that with the auto industry in dire shape, this is much needed relief, it has multiple benefits. It gives consumers more confidence and in some cases, perhaps the ablity to negotiate a deal that would not have been possible without it due to a tight credit market. 48% of all sales were captured by the Big 3, which only stregthens them and in turn, America, since we own a large stake in those companies in jobs and what we did to keep them afloat. As I said earlier the positives will outweigh the negatives for this in the long run.

August 7, 2009 at 2:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

Do we really need to give people confidence to spend money they don't have for something they probably don't need? As we have seen recently(well I have seen it maybe some haven't) buying things you can't pay for will eventually catch up to you. Didn't we just learn this lesson? guess not

August 7, 2009 at 2:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

goodoleboy (anonymous) says...

In the late 90's I could walk in and buy about anything I wanted automoile wise(within reason) with no money down, just a call to bank/credit union. I bought a car last year, and at that time they wanted %10 down, and I have an excellent credit rating. The difference? The markets, people could save for that %10 and in the mean time continue to get hammered by rising gas prices. Many dealers are matching the 3500-4500, so it becomes 7000 to 9000 thousand off the price, that is substantial, and in a lot of case can bring the price of a vehicle that was not affordable, or borderline, into the realm of where people are NOT living beyond their means, sure there are idiots, there always are in every facet of life, but again I say the positives outweigh the negatives. The majority of the vehicles being sold are in the 20-25k price, and with interest rates where they are currently, financing for loan in the 13-19k range is not going to break the bank. Hell most of the vehicles that get traded in were worth more new than what people are driving off.

August 7, 2009 at 2:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

Well, lots of people could say the same thing or more about buying a house not that long ago......... hope it doesn't turn out the same way, hopefully people are paying a little more attention this time to whether or not they can really afford the new vehicle. My guess is..... many people that truly drove cars that qualified as "clunkers"..... drove them for a reason...... and they weren't the person who originally bought those vehicles when they were new...... I truly hope it DOES turn out well for those buying it. I just wish they'd have put the occasoinal free taxi service provision in the bill for those of us who helped finance it :)

August 7, 2009 at 3 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

goodoleboy (anonymous) says...

ARM's and outright fraud from both consumers and lenders led to the housing debacle. Plus a car loan generally will not bankrupt you to begin with.

I am curious though, when see a person using WIC to purchase milk do you feel as if they owe you a glass? Just curious.

August 7, 2009 at 3:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

Consumers themselves were also to blame.
I don't equate a glass of milk needed to live or for a child quite the same as a new car. Now, if they already had a gallon of milk (that was perfectly "drinkable"), and traded it in for some much more expensive milk, and I paid for part of it........ well I guess if I was part of the dairy farmer union I'd be happy, I suppose..... :)

August 7, 2009 at 3:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

goodoleboy (anonymous) says...

"consumers and lenders led to the housing debacle"

I did state that consumers were to blame hehe, lack of an edit button on these forums really does tell the tale

August 7, 2009 at 3:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

Sorry, missed that, goodoleboy. My apologies :)

Still think if they're going to trade in their plain-old pasteurized Vitamin D fortified $4/gallon of milk for a $400/gallon of super-duper-state-of-the-art-does-everything-but-your-laundry milk and I help pay for it they ought to at least invite me over for a bowl of cereal...... :)

"Unfortunately" (???) my all-paid-for vehicle just misses qualifying as a "clunker"..... (thank goodness!!!!!)..... I'd hate to have that extra payment if I'm caught in the unemployment when it hits double-digits....... which might very well happen soon...... maybe we can start finding cheaper help than in India..... (Obama, still waiting for ya there....)

August 7, 2009 at 3:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )