madpoet (anonymous) says...

Good! I have a classmate in the cementary due to drunk driving. Adults hosted a graduation party and provided alcohol. Two days before graduation and he died after dropping someone off home the next morning. Kids up all night drinking were allowed to go home early the next day. He wasn't staggering down drunk but missed a jog in the road and slammed into a bridge abutment and was killed instantly. Heads rolled and adults went to jail over it but it should never have happened. The crap about "I'd rather let them drink where I can keep an eye on them" does NOT fly with me. Teach your underage kids not to drink. Period.

April 23, 2009 at 3:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

If you have children, leed by example and don't drink. It's a nasty habit no matter how cool you think it is.

Let the flaming begin.

April 23, 2009 at 7:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jcook66801 (anonymous) says...

Madpoet: THe same thing happened near Winfield years ago. The parents got diversion, but it was a wakeup call that ended a dangerous tradition that started many years before.

April 23, 2009 at 8:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

goodoleboy (anonymous) says...

Drinking a glass or 2 of red wine with your dinner has proven time and time again, even a beer with dinner has been proven to reduce heart attacks. The is absolutely nothing wrong with drinking in this context, its hardly a "nasty habit". Getting inebriated is another story, funny how countries in Europe have lower drinking ages yet not near the amount of problems we do. It's not the alcohol that is bad, it is the people with no self control.

April 24, 2009 at 5:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

Make sure you only have your 2 glasses then.(Like that really happens.) Or you could just have grape juice. All the benefits without the damage to your liver.

Europe.......... pfft! I lived there for 2 1/2 years and it's no better than here. We just get the romanticized story of Europe over here. We don't hear about their problems like they hear about ours. We love to air our dirty laundry, they don't.

Isn't part of the appeal of alcohol that it lowers your self control, "social lubricant" and all that?

April 24, 2009 at 9:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

madpoet (anonymous) says...

Jcook, it was the Winfield incident I was referring to. I thought one dad went to jail at least for a few days.

I don't mind if adults have alcohol in small amounts. I don't care if my husband has a beer in the evening. He doesn't drink and drive and stops at one beer or mixed drink. I've already taught my child that it's a grownup thing that is ok in moderation once you're 21. There's nothing that gets me more aggravated then people getting drunk in public. And kids don't stop at one or two drinks, they drink themselves drunk or even dead.

April 24, 2009 at 10:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

josiesbar (anonymous) says...

I do agree with not providing alcohol at teen parties, but in the same breath, I absolutely believe the drinking age should be 18.

April 24, 2009 at 10:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

biggest_small_townKS (anonymous) says...

Alcohol is a drug, period. Some are addicted to this drug, FACT. If the goverment wasn't a bunch of lushes themselves, they would sin tax alcohol like they sin tax tobacco, or better yet, they would make it illegal like they do with marijuana. I will submit that overall, alcohol kills as many or even more than tobacco does when you factor in all of the scenarios.
I don't disagree with A drink now and then; or even a good complimentary wine with dinner now and then, but those situations are not what is killing us.

April 24, 2009 at 10:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

biggest_small_townKS (anonymous) says...

Josies, I also agree that the drinking age should be 18 or the draft/military recruitment age should also be 21 if the drinking age is left at that.
While I don't agree that most people at the age of1 8 can make a decision of informed consent or necessarily responsible in that they truly understand the consequences or affect it can have on the rest of their entire life; there are some who truly can do so.

April 24, 2009 at 10:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

biggest_small_townKS (anonymous) says...

So true, so True 4U

April 24, 2009 at 11:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

I hear a lot of people say that the drinking age should be the same as the age in which you can enter the service but this makes no sense to me. Drinking makes you less responsible while the military teaches you to be more responsible. I don't see what the two have to do with each other.
When I was in the Army nobody stopped me from drinking even though I wasn't 21 yet. So the drinking age for service persons already kinda is 18. If you want to drink so bad and you're between 18 and 20 go sign up, the recruiters are at the mall across from the movie theater. Thanks in advance for your service.

April 24, 2009 at 11:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

biggest_small_townKS (anonymous) says...

Seriously....
What relevance the comparison has is this.

How much sense does it make to say to an 18 year old ?

"you are mature enough to make the decision to sacrifice your life through service to your country, but you are not mature enough to decide whether or not you should drink, how much, or whether that activity is important enough to sacrifice your life for"

No, I'm sorry to say, it doesn't make sense to me at all.
While I agree with you that the military can make you more responsible and drinking can make you less responsible, the outcomes of either are baseless until the initial decision is made and acted upon.
As it currently stands, in making such a decision, you are having to decide not only the issue, but also whether or not you want to break the law...

April 24, 2009 at 12:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

What if the legal age was 18 if you are selfless and mature enough to serve your country but 21 for the rest? You've got a military i.d. your good to go, if not sorry come back when you're 21. Although I still don't like the idea of encouraging our service persons to drink. I saw a lot of fellow soldiers lives ruined because of alcohol related problems. That's one of the reasons I quit drinking myself, it just isn't worth it(for me). I told myself that when I got out I was quitting and I did. I knew that no matter what civilian job I got and no matter how "stressful" it was that it couldn't compare to being away from home for 2 1/2 years. I get to go home after every single work day now. What do I need to drink for? To be cool? Nah, I got that covered too.;)

April 24, 2009 at 1:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

Service people get training to use rifles and other weaponry, no one is trained to drink responsibly, if there even is such a thing.

It's funny how people that wanted to live in a healthy utopia now rush to the defense of their own vice. I wondered how long it would take.

April 24, 2009 at 2:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sundancekid (anonymous) says...

By comparison, the legal drinking age in Europe, while varying from one country to the next, is lower than that in the US. Additionally, alcohol is enjoyed and served with meals for all family members.

Benefit?

Alcohol is not perceived as a "forbidden fruit" once the young person becomes an adult. Parents have had the opportunity to educate about moderation, responsibility and appreciation of alcohol.

Food for thought.

April 24, 2009 at 2:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Dido1969 (anonymous) says...

I have to laugh when I read a line like “If the goverment (sic) wasn’t a bunch of lushes themselves, they would sin tax alcohol like they sin tax tobacco, or better yet, they would make it illegal like they do with marijuana.”

Man, that law has done a lot of good, huh? We’ve spent billions on the so-called “war on drugs,” and look at all the good it’s done! Like marijuana use is now nil? No, wait…IT’S UP AGAIN!

YOU CANNOT LEGISLATE MORALITY…did you learn NOTHING from Prohibition? One of our biggest problems in America today is organized crime which was BORN, BREAD, & WEANED AS THE RESULT OF THE MISGUIDED, PURITAN THINKING THAT INFLICTED PROHIBITION ON THE NATION…doofi who do not learn from history are doomed to making the rest of us repeat it….

April 24, 2009 at 2:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sundancekid (anonymous) says...

I whole-heartedly agreed. "You cannot legislate morality." That's my favorite phrase of the day. Thank you!

April 24, 2009 at 2:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sundancekid (anonymous) says...

To that statement YY4U, I also agree. In the US, perception of alcohol as the "forbidden fruit" cannot be reversed after decades as such. Might we give thanks to Andrew Volstead and the Moral Majority in 1919?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibit...

Thus, alterating (lesening the severity of) any alcohol laws might open a floodgate of problems.

April 24, 2009 at 3:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

What exactly is the point of drinking alcohol if done in moderation? It seems that there are a lot of other things to drink that taste just as good if not better and you don't have to worry about whether you are drinking them in moderation or not.

"You cannot legislate morality." That is absolutely right and I go back to my original statement, parents if you don't want your kids to drink, lead by example and don't drink. Talk to them about why you don't drink. Ultimately they will make their own decision but at least you've done all you could.

April 24, 2009 at 7:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

goodoleboy (anonymous) says...

Seriouslyfolks you said:

"Make sure you only have your 2 glasses then.(Like that really happens.) Or you could just have grape juice. All the benefits without the damage to your liver.

Europe.......... pfft! I lived there for 2 1/2 years and it's no better than here. We just get the romanticized story of Europe over here. We don't hear about their problems like they hear about ours. We love to air our dirty laundry, they don't.

Isn't part of the appeal of alcohol that it lowers your self control, "social lubricant" and all that?"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually yes it does happen, there are people in this world that can exhibit enough degree of self control to drink 1-2 glasses or a 1-2 beers, and newsflash, the alcohol in said wine or beer does in fact have health benefits, in fact in a recent study many of the centenarians out there practice this very habit.

And yes Europe does have far less of an issue with alcohol than we do, while you may have lived over there for 2 1/2 I have family there(Germany and the Netherlands) that have been there all their lives and we have spoke about this very subject, there is a reason we don't hear about their troubles as much as ours.......

You have a flawed perception, wine and beer have been around for 1000's of year, they have a lot more to offer than "social lubricant".

April 24, 2009 at 7:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

goodoleboy (anonymous) says...

Seriouslyfolks said:

"What exactly is the point of drinking alcohol if done in moderation? It seems that there are a lot of other things to drink that taste just as good if not better and you don't have to worry about whether you are drinking them in moderation or not.

"You cannot legislate morality." That is absolutely right and I go back to my original statement, parents if you don't want your kids to drink, lead by example and don't drink. Talk to them about why you don't drink. Ultimately they will make their own decision but at least you've done all you could."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The point is it does have health benefits and believe it or not many people do enjoy the taste, your personal bias is clouding your opinion. Lumping people that drink alcohol in with people that abuse alcohol is like saying a patient that used pain killers after surgery is akin to a heroin addict.

Your last sentence however could not be more true, they will make their decisions and educating and talking to them about alcohol is all that can do.

April 24, 2009 at 7:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

goodoleboy
I don't think I lumped all people that drink into one group. That wasn't my intention and I'm sorry if it came out that way. I am biased against alcohol because I've seen it do a lot of damage to peoples lives. People that while sober would not have done the things they did that caused them so many problems. To me it's not worth it and I think it's a silly thing to defend so vigorously. Like with the smoking ban I'd rather people use their own judgement when it comes to drinking so the government doesn't have to step in and do it for us, so I'll make my suggestions and let it go. I will probably ultimately be disappointed by the decisions people make concerning alcohol but I'll live with it.

April 24, 2009 at 8:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

biscuitboy (anonymous) says...

this country's attempts to legislate morality have failed so many times, I am amazed at the extent to which we conintue to try. Prohibition...Prostitution....Pornography....Drugs....all have continued to thrive despite our best efforts to stop them. These failed attempts havecost us untold billions of dollors, not only in the cost of enforceing these laws, and housing people imprisoned for breaking them....but also in the lost tax-revenue on the billions spent everyyear on these underground non-taxed enterprises.
A fellow contributor on another issue recently refered to the drug cartels now terroizing much of Mexico and the United States. If you want to defeat the drug cartels remove the money....legalize their product. There is probably no group of people more oppossed to legalization of any of our so-called vices than those that are making a king's ransom....(often more than the GNP of some thirld world countries}....by providing them. other groups that are living well of our "vice laws are police departments, lawyers, prison builders, and the companies that supply all of them with their needs.
Don't get me wrong.....in many ways legalization of these things only shift the problems caused by them from one area to another. But with legalization, we then have the opportunity to write some laws that make more sense and are more enforceable....and to pay for it with new "sin-taxes" that are now all going to the cartels.
Legislation of morality has never worked....it never will work...unless you are willing to give the government the authority to summarally execute any one not adapting to its moral code of the moment. And there is a lot of historical evidence to suggest even that doesn't work, and what a slippery slope that would be.
legalization may not be the answer....but neither is our current system,
it's time to look at some new ideas.

April 25, 2009 at 7:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

First of all if people are talking to me with their rants about the government legislating morality, please go back and reread my posts. My point has been to simply state my opinion and give some advice, that is it. I never once said the government should get involved and stop people from drinking (which is a very stupid thing to do IMHO). As far as legalizing drugs, that's not smart either. If you make drugs legal, more people will do them so we will have more nonproductive people for the government to pay for with my tax dollars. Judging from the amount of people on here who sing the praises of alcohol and it's great value to society, I'd say the number of people defending their use of crack would probably be as high. Remember please, I am not trying to use the government to take away your precious alcohol, I am only sharing my views. Remember my stance on the smoking ban(I voted no), I believe in liberty. I accept the dangers that come with it. I will however exercise my freedom of speech and say how stupid and dangerous some things and some behavior is in my opinion. Do I still have that right or is that "hate speech"?

April 25, 2009 at 8:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

biscuitboy (anonymous) says...

seriously folks....why are you always so defensive. You have every right to share your opinion....as does everyone else who post here. I was not trying to infringe upon your rights at all....I was only exercising my right to do the same thing....Then you start accussing me (and others) of "hate speech".

It is your opinion that legalizing drugs will make more peo-ple use them. That may, or may not, be true...but it is my opinion that legalizing them would at least provide us with tax money from the sale....so the users would help pay the bill rather than it all being paid by the non-using taxpayer.

And that is my opinion, which when combined with a couple of bucks will buy you a cup of coffee.

the smoking ban must have really been hard on you as often as you refer to it.....but as difficult as this may be for you to accept...I too voted against the ban....I campaigned against the ban....I worked against the ban. I resent the insinuation that everybody that disagrees with you must have voted yes on the smoking ban.

April 25, 2009 at 10:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

biscuitboy (anonymous) says...

seriously folks

At least I gave you the courtesy of refering to your rant as an opinion....even after you were so discourteous as to refer to my opinion as a rant. lol

April 25, 2009 at 10:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

bisquitboy

Dang it! I'm not defensive! If I want to be defensive however I will be!:) just kidding.

I didn't accuse any body of using hate speech, I was saying that I hoped my speech wasn't seen that way. Sorry if it came out wrong.

Sorry for being discourteous to you and calling your opinion a rant. When it comes to this topic I do rant about it so you can call it that because it is. As pointed out earlier I am biased against alcohol because of the seemingly senseless damage it has done to peoples lives that I have known. I try not to get too soapboxy?............. soapboxish?............ preachy about it but apparently I have the right to remain silent but not the ability. LOL Sorry if I offended anyone.

April 25, 2009 at 12:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sundancekid (anonymous) says...

Alcohol wasn't meant to be consumed in large quantities.

Wine tasting is something I enjoy. Going to the vineyards to learn about, sip and appreciate the various flavors. Pairing a bottle of wine with cheese (and, I am not referring to those mini cubes of cheddar and swiss that you see upon a platter with celery, carrots and mini sausages at the local grocery store). Some almost consider wine-tasting an art. It makes for a relaxing evening with another couple.

Again, all things in moderation.

April 25, 2009 at 1:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

biscuitboy (anonymous) says...

I too have had many negative experiences with alcohol and drug use...from an alcoholic father....and abusive and alcoholic step-father....and a several year marriage to cocaine myself.
One of the things I get so tired of hearing is "I didn't mean what I said, it was the booze talking." or "I didn't mean to beat that old lady to death....it was the drugs that made me do it." BULL S---!!!!

I firmly believe...IMO...that drugs nor alcohol ever made someone do something they were not already capable of doing. Thats not to say that the usage didn't perhaps put them in a situation where it was more likely to happen. But I was never so drunk or high that I was capeable of treating a woman the way my step-father treated my mother or beating somebody else's mother to death just for another fix. And if you want to totally lose my respect....try using some such excuse on me. See, I can get angry too. I just think the time has come for us to try thinking a little more out of the box on these matters.

seriously folks....apology accepted....apology offered....and hopefully we will both keep offering our opinions and waiting to get the couple of bucks for them. lol

April 25, 2009 at 1:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )