Q I see advertisements in Spanish and English for several jobs in the city, like street department and police dispatchers. Some jobs, like police officer, are only advertised in English. Why is that?
A City Manager Matt Zimmerman said the city often prepares ads in English and Spanish in an effort to reach out to the Hispanic community.
“(English as a Second Language) residents often feel more involved and be willing to respond if the city reaches out in their language,” Zimmerman said in a statement given to Larry Bucklinger, director of administrative services.
“The ad for police officers are for a specific set of job skills and so in English. However, I think we should consider also publishing them in Spanish in the future.”
Bjnemp (anonymous) says...
If a person has to have an employment ad for a government job printed in a foreign language in order to read and comprehend it, they have no right, qualiifications, or ability to represent or serve me, an American citizen, and then be compensated with my taxes for doing so. If a person doesn't respect my nation enough to take the time to learn our language, that person doesn't respect it enough to properly represent it.
April 6, 2009 at 2:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justamarine (anonymous) says...
Bjnemp-
Well stated.
April 6, 2009 at 2:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
gemini (anonymous) says...
For once I agree with justamarine and Bjnemp!!
If ESL residents do not feel welcomed or involved maybe they should learn the language of the land before choosing to move here and seek employment (legally or illegally). It has nothing to do with tolerance...it is about respect. I would never move to another country and expect to be treated equally when I haven't exerted the effort to learn the country's language or cultures.
Can't wait for this debate to take off.......
April 6, 2009 at 3:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
gemini (anonymous) says...
Crackinsack...it's not that black and white. This is a COMPLETELY different issue than SHS.
The ones you are criticizing in this thread are not un-American, rather VERY American because they believe in protecting their nation from disrespectful invaders that abuse our healthcare, employment, education and welfare systems.
Granted, just because someone doesn't speak our language does not warrant them an illegal...but in this day and age, its very likely they are.
April 6, 2009 at 3:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rabblerouser (anonymous) says...
YES, I'M A BAD AMERICAN
by: George Carlin
I Am Your Worst Nightmare. I am a BAD American. I am George Carlin.
I believe the money I make belongs to me and my family, not some mid level governmental functionary be it Democratic or Republican!
I'm in touch with my feelings and I like it that way!
I think owning a gun doesn't make you a killer, it makes you a smart American.
I think being a minority does not make you noble or victimized, and does not entitle you to anything.
I believe that if you are selling me a Big Mac, do it in English.
I believe everyone has a right to pray to his or her God when and where they want to.
My heroes are John Wayne, Babe Ruth, Roy Rogers, and whoever canceled Jerry Springer.
I don't hate the rich. I don't pity the poor.
I know wrestling is fake and I don't waste my time watching or arguing about it.
I've never owned a slave, or was a slave, I haven't burned any witches or been persecuted by the Turks and neither have you! So, shut up already.
I believe if you don't like the way things are here, go back to where you came from and change your own country! This is AMERICA.
I want to know which church is it exactly where the Reverend Jesse Jackson preaches, where he gets his money, and why he is always part of the problem and not the solution. Can I get an AMEN on that one?
I think the cops have every right to shoot your sorry rear if you're running from them..
I also think they have the right to pull you over if you're breaking the law, regardless of what color you are.
And, no, I don't mind having my face shown on my drivers license. I think it's good..... and I'm proud that "God" is written on my money.
I think if you are too stupid to know how a ballot works, I don't want you deciding who should be running the most powerful nation in the world for the next four years.
I dislike those people standing in the intersections trying to sell me stuff or trying to guilt me into making "donations" to their cause.
I believe that it doesn't take a village to raise a child, it takes two parents.
And what is going on with gas prices... again?
I believe "illegal" is illegal no matter what the lawyers think.
I believe the American flag should be the only one allowed in AMERICA!
If this makes me a BAD American, then yes, I'm a BAD American.
If you are a BAD American too, please forward this to everyone you know.
We want our country back
April 6, 2009 at 4:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
YaHooSis48 (anonymous) says...
I know George Carlin is a bit rough around the edges; but my oh my, it looks like I might be a "bad American" myself. I am disgusted every time I hear an ad on the radio or see one in the paper that is in Spanish. This is America and our borders should be protected. All immigration should be done in a legal fashion. And while I'm at it. . where the hell are all the John Waynes. Personally, I'd like to see some Clint Eastwood types. I agree the only flag that should fly here is the the red,white, & blue American flag!
April 6, 2009 at 5:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
USNretired (anonymous) says...
The last thing we need is emergency response people that don't have a full and familiar command of the English language as spoken here.
April 6, 2009 at 5:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
April 6, 2009 at 3:36 p.m. ( permalink )
Pingeon (anonymous) says...
How would a cop communicate with you to give you a speeding ticket if he/she did not speak English? This is only the most basic of examples too. Add more problems to the mix and you can easily see this would not be a good situation.
April 6, 2009 at 6:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Tell (anonymous) says...
Does it really matter what their race is ,if they can't read english please don't hire them. I don't care if its uncle Bubba.
April 6, 2009 at 7:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justthinkin (anonymous) says...
God Bless George Carlin - one of my life's heros. I also agree with more than one that have posted.... bi-lingual is good to help those that are not bi-lingual, but, come on Zim & Buck - if they can't read English, that means they can't understand me when I call & I question, are they really qualified to help? That's like getting Tech support from India, and we all know how much THAT P---ES us all off. If they can't understand me when I call 911, or when they respond to my accident or emergency, they are NO HELP --- CITY, SAVE YOUR $$$ -- An ad (in English) is all you need to pay for.... SAVE MY TAXES - Drop the SPANISH Ads..... One other thought, Does the Trainer of the sanitation worker have to learn (in another language) how to say ..... DON'T PUT YOUR HAND THERE --- or STOP, before you DIE ? It's TAX $$'s Folks.... Think about it......
One more ?.... how long before the Gazette moves this "forum" to another space, so they can "kill" this dialogue just like they kill tlhe other dialogues they, or the powers, don't like (aka M.Williams)
April 6, 2009 at 9:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbluma (anonymous) says...
If you have to ask this question you don't even deserve an answer, but I'm going to give you an opinion. My ancestors came over here LEGALLY, they didn't have a school that was bilingual, they learned the language and they became a citizen of the USA. When are bleeding heart liberal sob's ever going to figure it out? As far as I'm concerned we shouldn't have to have more than one language in the whole country, much less in the paper or our public schools. AND I CHALLENGE YOU TO SHOW ME ANY OTHER COUNTRY THAT DOES.
April 6, 2009 at 10:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
77flint (anonymous) says...
We're all REDNECKS here.
We don't kindly to your kind around these parts!!
April 6, 2009 at 10:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Bjnemp (anonymous) says...
Crack: Are you sure that crack is in your sack and not your head? Concerning my entry, you wrote:
"To assume all non-English speaking persons are illegal is ignorant. Seems to be an on-going theme with the pro-SHS crowd...That's all I'm saying."
Best lay off the crack, jack. Nowhere in my above comment did I mention "illegal". I don't care if a person is here legally, illegally, or, like you, just taking up space, if they don't respect our nation, heritage, culture, traditions, laws, and people enough to learn our language, they certainly don't deserve to hold a government job paid for with our tax money.
Next time, read what I wrote before calling me ignorant and launching into a nonsensical tirade about a totally unrelated subject. Your inane personal attacks only serve to embarrass you and reveal your lack of education and ethics.
April 6, 2009 at 11:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Bjnemp (anonymous) says...
77flint: "We're all REDNECKS here. We don't kindly to your kind around these parts!!"
What? Intelligent comment(?). Why are we "rednecks", flint?
Because we think all citizens should obey the law?
Because we feel people who live here and take advantage of our opportunities should respect our flag, heritage, culture, and traditions?
Because we feel anyone who expects to succeed and prosper here should learn to speak the language?
Because we love our country?
Because we honor the memories of the many who died to protect the soveriegnty illegal aliens seek to destroy?
Because we feel anyone who works for our government and gets paid by our taxpayers should be a citizen of our nation and pay taxes?
I suspect I'm wasting my time, flint. I'm sure the concept of patriotism is totally lost on someone like you.
April 7, 2009 at 12:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jmb232 (anonymous) says...
I think it is a mistake for the ads to be printed in ANY language but English. I am not against the Spanish language or against the Hispanic people but the language of America
is English. If we open up the door to every language then you would have to print 10 newspapers in every town and the burden on government, schools, hospitals and business
would be terrible if everything had to be posted in several languages. When the persons moved here I think that it is their obligation to learn Enlish just as it would be our duty to
learn their language if we moved to their country. jb
April 7, 2009 at 4:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
UsayULoveGod (anonymous) says...
Here we go again , showing our true Colors !!
April 7, 2009 at 8:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
There are a lot of missed opportunities for people in this country who don't speak English. Certain jobs you simply can not do without a working knowledge of the language. That is fact. It sounds good on the surface to have bilingual everything, but is it? Does it encourage them to learn English or just think "¿Por qué debo aprender yo inglés cuando todo está en español? " We must seriously ask ourselves if it is hindering them or helping them. We must also consider if they are legal or not. Do we really want to invest in someone that has no respect for our laws?
April 7, 2009 at 9:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
crazycatlady (anonymous) says...
Though the national government has never voted on a single national language, I believe that Kansas, as a state, voted on English as the official state language in 2007. Therefore, jobs on the city and state level should not necessarily HAVE to be printed in any language other than English. Local governments have the discretion to publish official public documents in a language other than English.
April 7, 2009 at 9:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rabblerouser (anonymous) says...
This Ain’t Mexico by Buddy Jewel
THERE IS A BIG DEBATE IN THIS COUNTRY TODAY
ABOUT THE BORDER SITUATION DOWN SOUTH
SOME SAY LET’EM IN, CAUSE THEY WORK AND SPEND
OTHERS SAY WE OUGHTA KICK’EM ALL OUT
LET ME TELL YOU MY FRIEND, IF THEY’RE SNEAKIN IN,
PLAIN AND SIMPLE THEY’RE BREAKIN THE LAW
SOME CALL IT IMMIGRATION, I SAY IT’S AN INVASION
AND IT’S TIME TO FINISH THAT WALL
CHORUS 1
CAUSE THIS AINT MEXICO. SORRY PARTNER, BUT, WE DON’T HABLO
WE LOVE MARGARITAS, AND THEM SIZZLIN FAJITAS
BUT WE STILL REMEMBER THE ALAMO
DON’T MAKE NO DIFFERENCE HOW YOU SPIN IT
YOU WANNA LIVE HERE, THERE’S A LINE, GET IN IT
YOU CAN CALL ME A CLOSED-MINDED, OLD-FASHIONED, FLAG-WAVIN REDNECK, GRINGO
BUT THIS AINT MEXICO
IF YOU’RE HERE FOR THE MONEY, FOR THE MILK AND THE HONEY
FOR EVERYTHING AMERICA HAS
IF YOU’RE HARD WORKIN PEOPLE, LIVIN HERE LEGAL
HEY, I AINT GOT NO PROBLEM WITH THAT
WE’RE ALL TAKIN A BEATIN FROM THE ONES WHO ARE CHEATIN
THE SYSTEM AND BROTHER THEY WILL
KEEP ABUSIN OUR FREEDOM, SAYIN WE GOTTA FEED’EM
AND I’M TIRED OF FOOTIN THE BILL
CHORUS 2
CAUSE THIS AINT MEXICO. SORRY PARTNER, BUT, WE DON’T HABLO
WE LOVE YOUR SANDY BEACHES, AND JOHNNY RODRIGUEZ
BUT WE STILL REMEMBER THE ALAMO
YOU MIGHT NOT LIKE IT, BUT, HERE’S HOW I SEE IT
IT’S STILL OUR COUNTRY, SON, YOU BETTER BELIEVE IT
JUST KEEP ONE THING IN MIND, WHEN YOU STEP CROSS THAT LINE MI AMIGO
THIS AINT MEXICO
THE PARTYS OVER, DO I MAKE MYSELF CLEAR?
IT’S KINDA LIKE LAST CALL AT THE BAR
YOU DON’T HAVE TO GO HOME, BUT, YOU CAN’T STAY HERE
CAUSE THIS AINT MEXICO. SORRY PARTNER, BUT, WE DON’T HABLO
WE LOVE MARGARITAS, AND THEM SIZZLIN FAJITAS
BUT WE STILL REMEMBER THE ALAMO
DON’T MAKE NO DIFFERENCE HOW YOU SPIN IT
YOU WANNA LIVE HERE, THERE’S A LINE, GET IN IT
YOU CAN CALL ME A CLOSED-MINDED, OLD-FASHIONED, FLAG-WAVIN REDNECK, GRINGO
BUT THIS AINT MEXICO
April 7, 2009 at 10:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
josiesbar (anonymous) says...
seriously, I agree with you. It's always been said English is the language of business. Printing street signs, job ads, etc, doesn't really promote learning the language. All I'm saying is this. If you don't have enough command of the English language to read a job description, then sorry for you. If I go to Mexico, and can't read a job description that is in Spanish, then I shouldn't get the job. Same thing applies here. I believe a lot of this is PC feel-good crap, not an actual need to print the job ad in Spanish.
That being said, I also think this discussion is very similar to the discussion 160 years ago, when Ireland moved to the US.
April 7, 2009 at 10:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Happiness09 (anonymous) says...
rabblerouser: Amen! and thank you.
April 7, 2009 at 10:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Happiness09 (anonymous) says...
and Crack: They have medications for OCD. (obsessive compulsive disorder)
April 7, 2009 at 10:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
So crack, you think we all should learn another language but those coming here shouldn't learn the predominant language in this country?
Remember niños. No haga drogas.
April 7, 2009 at 11:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nks (anonymous) says...
It is hard to blame the non English speakers. We cater to them and provide to them.
I see them occasionally buy their groceries and swipe their govt assistance cards and then go get into there new SUV's with $1000 spinners and chrome rims ,and one occasion step into a new Humvee. One evening while discussing budget cuts at our children's school, one parent stood up and (through our school interpreter) asked if his kids would still get free lunches. This is a man who I know drives a vehicle worth well over $30,000. I see them every day drive THROUGH the school lawn to get 10 yds closer, block driveways and parking lot exits or park in the middle of crosswalks so the children have to go around their vehicles. Not to mention the numerous toddlers standing in the front seats as they drive around the school. Some, not all, have no respect at all and are out for the free handouts that we so readily provide.
Everything that comes home in my son's book bag is printed in English and Spanish. I see a huge savings in toner cartridges per year right there.
April 7, 2009 at 11:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
gemini (anonymous) says...
Crackinsack....we aren't talking about other countries! We are talking about OUR homeland....the US, where English is the spoken language! The country that millions of our men have died protecting from foreign invaders! I truly believe that those coming here illegally and/or disrespecting our nation by flying their flag above ours or refusing to learn our language ARE invaders!!!!
April 7, 2009 at 11:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ksgram (anonymous) says...
crack please "put an end to the ignorance, intolerance, hate & greed" your own words back at ya
April 7, 2009 at 11:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
UsayULoveGod (anonymous) says...
WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is crazy ! If all of the Mexicans would not spend their money here , what would happen to the Emporia economy !
April 7, 2009 at 11:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Illegals have ways of appearing to be legal. That's how they get jobs. This is something else that should be considered. I know this may sound less than nice and will probably bring tears to many eyes but it's true.
April 7, 2009 at 12:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
araceli2009 (anonymous) says...
I really would love to see all illegals, former illegals and all of their descendants leave to their country of origin and see what all of you "true americans" would do and see if you would still complain about saving ink.
April 7, 2009 at 1:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nks (anonymous) says...
"I really would love to see all illegals, former illegals and all of their descendants leave to their country of origin"
A lot of us see how they "milk" our easily "milkable" system by gettin all of this free asisstance, popping out more kids every 10 months and then send half their paycheck back to the homeland instead of spending it here.
Some come here to make a living and a good home for a family. Others come here, expect us to cater to them and suck our tax dollars away, while the tax payers have to sit back and watch them buy all of thier milk, meat, diapers formula, fruit and vegetables without paying a dime while I am in line behind them with always save and best choice.
April 7, 2009 at 1:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
josiesbar (anonymous) says...
"I really would love to see all illegals, former illegals and all of their descendants leave to their country of origin"
As would I.
April 7, 2009 at 1:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Why is it that when people say that being "illegal" is a bad thing people jump all over them as if they are wrong. Isn't breaking the law bad? It seems to me that a lot of the people who think that being illegal is A OK are the same ones that have been pushing for more laws to be made recently. What, it's good to break the law so let's make more to break and that will be great? Is that it? Well call me a bad mean person if you want but in my opinion breaking they law is not good. I'm sorry if that offends you.
April 7, 2009 at 1:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
gemini (anonymous) says...
"I really would love to see all illegals, former illegals and all of their descendants leave to their country of origin"
So would I. And you know what...we would be just fine. Better even. Because the majority of what I assume you are calling "former illegals and their descendants," are actually legal immigrants that followed the law and applied for citizenship the correct way and therefore your statement doesn't apply to them. Those are the "true Americans."
No one made anyone come to this country. If you don't like or cannot adhere to our laws and policies, the border you crossed to get in is still there and wide open for you to go back across.
Also--good post, nks. I agree wholeheartedly.
April 7, 2009 at 3:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
allintogether (anonymous) says...
The United States of America, like every civilized country on earth, has a immigration and naturalization process and laws that govern the assimilation of foreign nationals that want to come to the US. People that don't follow the law are criminals. There are economic, public health, cultural ramifications for America if the process is not followed and laws not enforced. Minimum wage gets suppressed, diseases that were once essentially eradicated; crop up in populations and food supplies and along with the cultural positives an immigrant brings with them, so do the negative cultural aspects like fundamental religious beliefs they think supersedes the laws on the books and unsustainable, taxpayer funded, unnecessarily large families. Have as big a family as you want but don't expect me to pay for it and Sharia law just don't go round here...savvy(?).
I am very proud to be an American. I have a great family that has never relied on cultivating government hand outs because we don't breed beyond the limits of our income. I have every educational and employment option available to me because I work hard, I obey the laws and speak English fluently. I am free to report any illegal activity that occurs because there is no question of my status as a citizen in the US. I don't care what Europe is doing because I don't live there. I love God and hate no man or woman even though some make it hard to.
I don't care if you are from Mexico, Germany, India, Somalia or Finland. The US will demand you speak English because you will need to in this country to flourish and not be a burden to schools, healthcare providers and other service organizations you may utilize. You can keep and celebrate your culture but I am not curious about it nor will I adopt any of your idiosyncrasies. Not because I am a racist or xenophobe, but because the American culture works for me and I don't see any other country improving on it.
I think too many people are eager to trash America these days. I don't know why. In my view America is the best country on earth with an overwhelming majority of damn decent citizens. I don't know our new American Mr.Vergara but I would like to extend to him the warmest of welcomes because he respects our laws and put the necessary work into become an American. I am glad he voted.
April 7, 2009 at 3:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
77flint (anonymous) says...
STAR AND BARS FOREVER
April 7, 2009 at 4:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Bjnemp (anonymous) says...
Crackinsack:
"You do know that they have McDonald's in other countries, right? To want every other country to know English so you don’t have to learn another language is pretty selfish and lame. You're thinking on too small of a scale."
Is your bulb really that dim? You have some deep-rooted need to twist everything you read, take something from it that doesn't exist, and then reply with some totally irrelevant and incomprehensible blather.
No one said the McDonald's employees in Rome shouldn't speak Italian or the McDonald's employees in France shouldn't speak French. In fact, we are saying just the opposite. They should do business in their native language, as we should do here in the USA.
And who said everyone in the world should learn to speak English? None of us did. We are just saying that if you intend to live here, work here, and succeed here, you need to learn our language, as we would need to learn theirs if we moved to their home country.
Is your mind actually so muddled that you read everything incorrectly or do you just make this stuff up to keep the disability checks coming?
And why do you insist on attacking the smoking ban issue in discussions that are totally unrelated and irrelevant? You must be very lonely, Crack.
April 7, 2009 at 4:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
allintogether (anonymous) says...
Bjnemp,
Way too logical. Can you dumb it down a shake? Heh heh.
"Should we or should we not follow the advice of the galactically stupid"? -Daniel Kaffee
April 7, 2009 at 5:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
smogman (anonymous) says...
LOL allin, nice quote. The English language is all ready the primary spoken language for business around the world now, its not a huge leap of faith to expect here at home.
April 7, 2009 at 6:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bdprotheroe (anonymous) says...
What do you call someone who speaks three languages? Trilingual.
What do you call someone who speaks two languages? Bilingual.
What do you call someone who speaks one language? American.
Brian Protheroe
San Francisco, CA
April 7, 2009 at 6:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Technically if you want to speak the native language of North America then it would be Indian dialects. As of right now there is no "official" language written into law anywhere so even though it is an inconvenience to us we really have to ground to stand on unless there is legislation enacted which no politician will touch because in doing so they will lose the minority folks. I read that by the year 2050 english speakers will be in the minority anyways, so whats 40 years lol.
April 7, 2009 at 6:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
allintogether (anonymous) says...
Brian,
I am sure you will be able to list the numerous benefits and efficiencies of speaking and comprehending all of the world's languages in one land mass that has basically three large countries in it. Two of which speak primarily English. Or does your bone to pick have to do with how enlightened and educated people are in California?
"RUN! Get to da choppah!!!!!!!!!!!" - Your Governor
Sorry Brian. I have obviously played too much "Scene it". Be well.
April 7, 2009 at 6:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bdprotheroe (anonymous) says...
allintogether -
Please don't misunderstand, I haven't a "bone to pick," nor am I referring to Californians as more enlightened or educated than others. My occassional posts are only to contribute a different perspective, to exchange ideas and perspectives (the original intent of blogging).
But since you asked, I will say living in a Global City (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_city) has provided me the chance to see so many people of diverse and varied backgrounds living in harmony and embracing (appreciating) their differences (including language fluency). As a human resources manager with global reach, I have had the opportunity to polish up on my French. Dining out has allowed me to polish up on my Spanish. Here and there, I have learned a few phrases in other languages. I see it as a benefit because it affords me the opportunity to interact with more people and learn about their cultures.
I feel sorry for new Americans who work long hours, raise children, take care of the household and then find no time left to learn English. Thankfully, there are persons like Fernando Vergara (http://emporiagazette.com/news/2009/a...) who are teaching their children English as a second language.
The world is, in fact, becoming a smaller place. We have to share it.
Brian Protheroe
San Francisco, CA
PS: The joke (albeit, true) in the previous posting is one I learned in high school from one of my foreign language teachers.
April 7, 2009 at 7:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
allintogether (anonymous) says...
HA! Then I am glad to have you here. Welcome!
April 7, 2009 at 7:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
glarson (anonymous) says...
The thread has topped the 50-comment threshold and is moving to a news forum:
http://www.emporiagazette.com/forums/...
April 7, 2009 at 10:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )